Tron is trippy
e f
cycles (which I enjoyed, and I don't understand why folks would want
to skip it... but oh well). The graphics are amazing. Not
necessarirly in the technical sense, although they are very good...
but when I first played the graphics freaked me out. Tron has to have
one of the most unreal, surreal atmosphere's ever in a game, but also
very beautiful and it effectively captures the spirit of a film or
artistic work to a degree that few games before have. It's a bit
disorienting at first, and it goes over into the gameplay some too- it
took me quite some time to figure out just what was going on, even
with the tutorial.
I did have some problems with sound, though. The 3d sound is very
weak, sometimes I'm not sure if it's working or not (it sounds often
like regular stereo with no rear positional cues, but then the Tron
universe isn't filled with alot of sound, so it's hard to tell). 3D
sound is always a weakest link in any Monolith game, though- as near
as I could tell AVP2 had no 3D sound (just Miles Fast 2D). The sound
was also crackly before I got new VIA 4in1 drivers (my soundcard is a
Hercules, not Creative).
Xerxes234
magn...@bellsouth.net says...
> I got this game yesterday, played for a few hours past the light
> cycles (which I enjoyed, and I don't understand why folks would want
> to skip it... but oh well). The graphics are amazing. Not
> necessarirly in the technical sense, although they are very good...
> but when I first played the graphics freaked me out. Tron has to have
> one of the most unreal, surreal atmosphere's ever in a game,
seems like a similiar effect to using a blacklight.
e f
> seems like a similiar effect to using a blacklight.
>
Yeah, but I was talking about the level design and style, not just
the full screen glows. The whole look of the game is very wild. The
only other PC game that comes close I think is Jedi Outcast.
BTW, I'm playing on an LCD, and I noticed only a slight difference
when I turned off full screen glows. Not sure how it looks like on a
CRT. On my LCD it looks a bit like somebody turned the monitor
brightness up very high- if you do that you will get some "glows" in
any game, as LCD's are biased towards being bright. The fullscreen
glow effect is nice, but somewhat over the top in places- it would
have been great to have an intensity slider.
The glow in the original films was done with special films and
seperate exposures, and a backlight of course. In the game they are
using some kind of pixel shader, similar to the flourescent lights in
Splinter Cell.
They got alot of artistic touches right, and the overall look is
very close. The textures for the programs' skins inside the computer
world are all desaturated, which recreates the look of the movies.
One effect that wasn't in the original movie is all the programs talk
with a modulated, vocoder-type voice- but Jet doesn't. The music is
OK, although it seems to, so far, have only variations and hints of
the original Wendy Carlos score. I also don't remember that many
reflections in the original film as are in the game (the game grid,
some objects, for instance), but overall the look is appropriately
"shaded polygons".
spamtrap@localhost
>I got this game yesterday, played for a few hours past the light
>cycles (which I enjoyed, and I don't understand why folks would want
>to skip it... but oh well). The graphics are amazing. Not
>necessarirly in the technical sense,
I would say they are very amazing in a technical sense, seeing my lil'
PC doing in realtime what it took a Cray Supercomputer to batch
process 20 years ago in Tron 1.0 gives me a buzz :-)
--
Andrew. To email unscramble n...@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap.
Help make Usenet a better place:
Check groups.google.com before asking a question.
Don't top post. Trim your messages to include only relevent text.
Steve...@rightbehindyou.com
> I got this game yesterday, played for a few hours past the light
> cycles (which I enjoyed, and I don't understand why folks would want
> to skip it... but oh well). The graphics are amazing. Not
> necessarirly in the technical sense, although they are very good...
> but when I first played the graphics freaked me out. Tron has to have
> one of the most unreal, surreal atmosphere's ever in a game, but also
> very beautiful and it effectively captures the spirit of a film or
> artistic work to a degree that few games before have.
Tron 2.0 is the only game I've ever played that I looked at and thought,
"Those graphics are *perfect*." The character models and animations are
great, the faces are photorealistic -- realistic enough for a depiction of
computer programs, anyway. The environments are flawless. Monolith could
easily go to a Tron 3.0 without a big upgrade to the looks of the game. It
really does *look* like Tron.
Too bad the "real world" stuff looks about like the character animations in
GTA: VC. Some of those cutscenes look like they were made two or three
years ago. I'd almost rather have seen FMV.
Steve Tilson
--
I was at this casino minding my own business, and this guy came up to me
and said, "You're gonna have to move, you're blocking a fire exit." As
though if there was a fire, I wasn't gonna run. If you're flammable and
have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.
- Mitch Hedberg
Xocyll
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>I got this game yesterday, played for a few hours past the light
>cycles (which I enjoyed, and I don't understand why folks would want
>to skip it... but oh well).
That's simple, the first light cycle competitions where you choose when
to start and that have you walk around after aren't at all like the
rest.
The second time, you are forced into it after a cutscene, and assuming
you win the race, have to then drive to the next arena, while tanks
shoot at you; wash, rinse, repeat.
The arenas get more crowded and cramped every time you get forced into
light cycle mode and it's _seriously_ disruptive of the storyline.
This wasn't "hey light cycles are cool, lets have lots of arena fights"
this was "we spent a long time on this light cycle thing, lets make the
player do it a bunch of times".
The first time at least was _part_ of the storyline, after all you were
captured and sentenced to it. The others are completely arbitrary and
disruptive of the story.
>The graphics are amazing. Not
>necessarirly in the technical sense, although they are very good...
>but when I first played the graphics freaked me out. Tron has to have
>one of the most unreal, surreal atmosphere's ever in a game, but also
>very beautiful and it effectively captures the spirit of a film or
>artistic work to a degree that few games before have. It's a bit
>disorienting at first, and it goes over into the gameplay some too- it
>took me quite some time to figure out just what was going on, even
>with the tutorial.
Agreed, it is one beautiful game with surprisingly low requirements.
I was pleasantly surprised that it ran flawlessly at 1280x960 on my
geforce 3ti200 and athlon 1.4Ghz, with all options maxed. (I don't use
AA or FSAA)
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Werner Spahl
> Monolith could easily go to a Tron 3.0 without a big upgrade to the
> looks of the game. It really does *look* like Tron.
I thought so too until I saw the movie again ;). After that, the game
environments seem crowded with too little views of the vastness of the
movie and the disc and derezz effects also don't look quite right. But
still a great FPS and one of the best franchise games I ever played...
--
Werner Spahl (sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Steve...@rightbehindyou.com
> On 4 Sep 2003 Steve...@rightbehindyou.com wrote:
>
> > Monolith could easily go to a Tron 3.0 without a big upgrade to the
> > looks of the game. It really does *look* like Tron.
>
> I thought so too until I saw the movie again ;). After that, the game
> environments seem crowded with too little views of the vastness of the
> movie and the disc and derezz effects also don't look quite right.
Okay, granted that.
But you did know, right, that a lot of those vast open spaces aren't CG,
but hand-painted mattes?
> But
> still a great FPS and one of the best franchise games I ever played...
Yes.
e f
> magn...@bellsouth.net (e f) looked up from reading the entrails of the
> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
> >I got this game yesterday, played for a few hours past the light
> >cycles (which I enjoyed, and I don't understand why folks would want
> >to skip it... but oh well).
>
> That's simple, the first light cycle competitions where you choose when
> to start and that have you walk around after aren't at all like the
> rest.
> The second time, you are forced into it after a cutscene, and assuming
> you win the race, have to then drive to the next arena, while tanks
> shoot at you; wash, rinse, repeat.
>
> The arenas get more crowded and cramped every time you get forced into
> light cycle mode and it's _seriously_ disruptive of the storyline.
>
That's a letdown to hear.
Does it let you save between races?
Minigames are always a dicey matter in any first-person game. I
think some kind of light cycle racing is appropriate in a Tron game
(actually, the film had very little subject matter that would fit in a
pure FPS), but it's a tough balance- alot of people just don't want a
story driven, adventure type game mixed with the repetition of an
arcade game. I think it tends to hit us all in the funny bone and we
scream "console game"- because console games do this kind of shift of
pacing and gameplay all the time, but PC gamers want a bit more
consistency.
I know alot of people hated the races in Mafia (even though I found
them easy, OTOH, I found the rest of the game impossibly hard).
If I were desinging a game with various minigames, I think i'd make
the minigames intentionally easy- just have them as a diversion to the
rest of the game that breaks up the plaec A LITTLE and moves along the
plot. Also, you can never be sure that the same person that likes
blasting badguys is going to like racing games.
Jason Travis
> Tron 2.0 is the only game I've ever played that I looked at and thought,
> "Those graphics are *perfect*." The character models and animations are
> great, the faces are photorealistic -- realistic enough for a depiction of
> computer programs, anyway. The environments are flawless. Monolith could
> easily go to a Tron 3.0 without a big upgrade to the looks of the game.
It
> really does *look* like Tron.
>
> Too bad the "real world" stuff looks about like the character animations
in
> GTA: VC. Some of those cutscenes look like they were made two or three
> years ago. I'd almost rather have seen FMV.
Yeah! Wouldn't it have been a lot cheaper and quicker to hire some actors
(which apparently they did for the voices and facial maps...) and just
*film* them inside the approximately *four* real-world sets in the
cutscenes, rendering the digitizing laser and digitizing process? Or even
film them against bluescreen and do cgi sets.
Would make the real world a much sharper contrast to the cyber-Tron world.
Jason Travis
> I was pleasantly surprised that it ran flawlessly at 1280x960 on my
> geforce 3ti200 and athlon 1.4Ghz, with all options maxed. (I don't use
> AA or FSAA)
I'm curious about the requirements. True the graphics are absolutely
beautifull...but it doesn't *seem* like there's a terrible lot to
texture...there are glowing edges and pretty much everything else is black,
so maybe that's why they were able to make gigantic multiple-layer skies and
movement in pretty much everything.
There was one time I fired a weapon at a wall and discovered that it wasn't
exactly black...the darkness hid a faint black circuit board
pattern...perhaps the computer doesn't have to render this unless it's lit
up.
Xocyll
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote in message news:<upgelvkf2ap72q5qv...@4ax.com>...
>> magn...@bellsouth.net (e f) looked up from reading the entrails of the
>> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>> >I got this game yesterday, played for a few hours past the light
>> >cycles (which I enjoyed, and I don't understand why folks would want
>> >to skip it... but oh well).
>>
>> That's simple, the first light cycle competitions where you choose when
>> to start and that have you walk around after aren't at all like the
>> rest.
>> The second time, you are forced into it after a cutscene, and assuming
>> you win the race, have to then drive to the next arena, while tanks
>> shoot at you; wash, rinse, repeat.
>>
>> The arenas get more crowded and cramped every time you get forced into
>> light cycle mode and it's _seriously_ disruptive of the storyline.
>>
>
> That's a letdown to hear.
>
> Does it let you save between races?
No, but it does an autosave at the start of each arena.
Win the race but fail to make it past the tanks - do the race again.
Considering that the computer opponents can make moves that are
impossible for the character to do, that isn't a whole lot of fun.
> Minigames are always a dicey matter in any first-person game. I
>think some kind of light cycle racing is appropriate in a Tron game
>(actually, the film had very little subject matter that would fit in a
>pure FPS), but it's a tough balance- alot of people just don't want a
>story driven, adventure type game mixed with the repetition of an
>arcade game. I think it tends to hit us all in the funny bone and we
>scream "console game"- because console games do this kind of shift of
>pacing and gameplay all the time, but PC gamers want a bit more
>consistency.
For the most part I hate mini-games.
That's not to say that they can't be done well, and/or as part of a
storyline, because there have been such.
The light cycle races just seemed so very arbitrary, with zero logic as
to why they were there.
1. The old computer detects you and puts you on the grid, but not the
two programs right next to you. For that matter since it was the MCP
of the movie that did the grid there shouldn't have even been a grid in
the old system.
2. Running for your life from an extremely hostile program, you decide
to make your escape by, you guessed it, racing in the light cycle arena.
3. The light cycle arena used by the cyber-ninja equivalent for
"training". Yeah I can see how riding a light cycle to the death of
the opponents would be a huge help in training to sneak, jump and shoot.
> I know alot of people hated the races in Mafia (even though I found
>them easy, OTOH, I found the rest of the game impossibly hard).
>
> If I were desinging a game with various minigames, I think i'd make
>the minigames intentionally easy- just have them as a diversion to the
>rest of the game that breaks up the plaec A LITTLE and moves along the
>plot. Also, you can never be sure that the same person that likes
>blasting badguys is going to like racing games.
That's one way, or make it skippable entirely.
The best way to do a mini game is make it non-manditory, but make the
non-mini-game path a bit harder.
Yo Guido, I'm not really up for a game of Cribbage to get your help,
howsa bout I just do a hit for yas?
i own a yacht
> On 4 Sep 2003 Steve...@rightbehindyou.com wrote:
>
>> Monolith could easily go to a Tron 3.0 without a big upgrade to the
>> looks of the game. It really does *look* like Tron.
>
> I thought so too until I saw the movie again ;). After that, the game
> environments seem crowded with too little views of the vastness of the
> movie and the disc and derezz effects also don't look quite right. But
> still a great FPS and one of the best franchise games I ever played...
i'm curious about people who keep saying tron 2.0 looks just like the
movie. when's the last time they actually saw the movie? the back-lit
effects look totally different. tron 2.0 just captures the idea with new
technology very well
Eep²
Eep²
Werner Spahl
> But you did know, right, that a lot of those vast open spaces aren't CG,
> but hand-painted mattes?
No, I didn't know, but then it should be easy to simulate vast open spaces
in the game using distant wall textures too.
Steve...@rightbehindyou.com
> Win the race but fail to make it past the tanks - do the race again.
>
> Considering that the computer opponents can make moves that are
> impossible for the character to do, that isn't a whole lot of fun.
You said it, brother. I spent an hour last night trying to get past the
second arena in the legacy system -- I won the freakin' lightcycle race
four or five times, but each time I got blasted or run over by a tank. I
finally quit in disgust and tore up Vice City for a while.
Steve...@rightbehindyou.com
> Ever heard of 2D backgrounds? 3D games use it all the time for
> skyboxes... Regardless, there's no reason why Tron 2's levels can't be
> more expansive.
Thanks for utterly missing the point. I was talking about the movie, not
the game. And yes, I'd heard of 2D backgrounds, not having lived in a cave
eating slugs off the wall for the last twenty years. And yes, Tron 2.0's
levels could be more expansive.
Middle-posted for your annoyance.
Steve Tilson
> Steve...@rightbehindyou.com wrote:
>
> > Werner Spahl <sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
> > > On 4 Sep 2003 Steve...@rightbehindyou.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Monolith could easily go to a Tron 3.0 without a big upgrade to the
> > > > looks of the game. It really does *look* like Tron.
> > >
> > > I thought so too until I saw the movie again ;). After that, the game
> > > environments seem crowded with too little views of the vastness of
> > > the movie and the disc and derezz effects also don't look quite
> > > right.
> >
> > Okay, granted that.
> >
> > But you did know, right, that a lot of those vast open spaces aren't
> > CG, but hand-painted mattes?
--
e f
> Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
> > Win the race but fail to make it past the tanks - do the race again.
> >
> > Considering that the computer opponents can make moves that are
> > impossible for the character to do, that isn't a whole lot of fun.
>
> You said it, brother. I spent an hour last night trying to get past the
> second arena in the legacy system -- I won the freakin' lightcycle race
> four or five times, but each time I got blasted or run over by a tank. I
> finally quit in disgust and tore up Vice City for a while.
>
> Steve Tilson
If that's true, that's just a poor design decision, and not
necessarily the fault of the races.
Steve...@rightbehindyou.com
Yes, but the poor design decision makes the races wince-worthy events.
What was really infuriating was that smarmy, cocky voice-over that I got on
half of my approximately 836 deaths: "I assume you'll address those bugs
in the next patch...?" I'd like to talk to some folks at Monolith about
THEIR next $*#(%ing patch.
Steve Tilson
- and I'm a big fan of the game
Eep²
> Eep² <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> > Ever heard of 2D backgrounds? 3D games use it all the time for
> > skyboxes... Regardless, there's no reason why Tron 2's levels can't be
> > more expansive.
>
> Thanks for utterly missing the point. I was talking about the movie, not
> the game.
I didn't miss the point at all. Just as hand-painted mattes (2D images) were used in the movie, so too could 2D images be used for the game's backgrounds to show vast open spaces. Duh.
> And yes, I'd heard of 2D backgrounds, not having lived in a cave
> eating slugs off the wall for the last twenty years.
Are you sure? You didn't seem to be able to comprehend what I meant above. <snicker>
> And yes, Tron 2.0's levels could be more expansive.
Duh--I thought this was already established. <eyeroll>
> Middle-posted for your annoyance.
<shrug> It only shows your noobiness. <chuckle>
e f
> I didn't miss the point at all. Just as hand-painted mattes (2D images) were used in the movie, so too could 2D images be used for the game's backgrounds to show vast open spaces. Duh.
>
Actually, this technique is falling out of favor because it tends to
look like you are wandering around an amusement park ride if the
effect isn't perfect. You'll feel like you're inside a box with
painted walls, rather than in a real environment. Now days I think
fogging and real 3D terrain is more common.
A matte painting isn't the same becaues a matte painting is usually
used in a relatively static shot in a film and the camera doesn't move
much. Move around the perspective, like in a game, and the visual
cues will be all wrong and you'll see a static background.
Tron 2.0 has some gigantic views (the light cycle races, for
instance, have huge towers and great heights), but the movie had alot
of open, barren spaces that the game hasn't quite captured. Maybe
because they wanted a more visually rich experience for the game. The
movie also didn't have many reflections, yet the game is loaded with
environment maps.
Steve...@rightbehindyou.com
> Steve...@rightbehindyou.com wrote:
>
> > Eep² <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> > > Ever heard of 2D backgrounds? 3D games use it all the time for
> > > skyboxes... Regardless, there's no reason why Tron 2's levels can't
> > > be more expansive.
> >
> > Thanks for utterly missing the point. I was talking about the movie,
> > not the game.
>
> I didn't miss the point at all. Just as hand-painted mattes (2D images)
> were used in the movie, so too could 2D images be used for the game's
> backgrounds to show vast open spaces. Duh.
Not only did you miss the point the first time, you persist in missing it
now. Don't worry; someday you'll go to school and learn how to read.
> > And yes, I'd heard of 2D backgrounds, not having lived in a cave
> > eating slugs off the wall for the last twenty years.
>
> Are you sure? You didn't seem to be able to comprehend what I meant
> above. <snicker>
Your goal in life is to make yourself look more stupid with each post you
make. That's the only possible explanation for you.
> > And yes, Tron 2.0's levels could be more expansive.
>
> Duh--I thought this was already established. <eyeroll>
Why? Because you said so? You're wrong so often that if you told me the
sky was blue and water was wet, I'd do a reality check.
> > Middle-posted for your annoyance.
>
> <shrug> It only shows your noobiness. <chuckle>
Yes, I'm such a noob. I've only been posting to Usenet since you were in
diapers.
Oops... I guess that was this morning, eh?
Steve Tilson
> > > Steve...@rightbehindyou.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Werner Spahl <sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
> > > > > On 4 Sep 2003 Steve...@rightbehindyou.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Monolith could easily go to a Tron 3.0 without a big upgrade to
> > > > > > the looks of the game. It really does *look* like Tron.
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought so too until I saw the movie again ;). After that, the
> > > > > game environments seem crowded with too little views of the
> > > > > vastness of the movie and the disc and derezz effects also don't
> > > > > look quite right.
> > > >
> > > > Okay, granted that.
> > > >
> > > > But you did know, right, that a lot of those vast open spaces
> > > > aren't CG, but hand-painted mattes?
--
Eep²
> Eep² <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> > Steve...@rightbehindyou.com wrote:
> >
> > > Eep² <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> > > > Ever heard of 2D backgrounds? 3D games use it all the time for
> > > > skyboxes... Regardless, there's no reason why Tron 2's levels can't
> > > > be more expansive.
> > >
> > > Thanks for utterly missing the point. I was talking about the movie,
> > > not the game.
> >
> > I didn't miss the point at all. Just as hand-painted mattes (2D images)
> > were used in the movie, so too could 2D images be used for the game's
> > backgrounds to show vast open spaces. Duh.
>
> Not only did you miss the point the first time, you persist in missing it
> now. Don't worry; someday you'll go to school and learn how to read.
It is YOU who is continually missing the point. <shrug>
> > > And yes, I'd heard of 2D backgrounds, not having lived in a cave
> > > eating slugs off the wall for the last twenty years.
> >
> > Are you sure? You didn't seem to be able to comprehend what I meant
> > above. <snicker>
>
> Your goal in life is to make yourself look more stupid with each post you
> make. That's the only possible explanation for you.
<yawn> You're now filtered, troll.
> > > And yes, Tron 2.0's levels could be more expansive.
> >
> > Duh--I thought this was already established. <eyeroll>
>
> Why? Because you said so? You're wrong so often that if you told me the
> sky was blue and water was wet, I'd do a reality check.
When have I been wrong yet? <pose, flex>
> > > Middle-posted for your annoyance.
> >
> > <shrug> It only shows your noobiness. <chuckle>
>
> Yes, I'm such a noob. I've only been posting to Usenet since you were in
> diapers.
>
> Oops... I guess that was this morning, eh?
What was that, noob? Oh, right, you're filtered. Buh-bye! <thwap>
Steve...@rightbehindyou.com
Somehow, I bet I'm not.
Steve Tilson