DOOM without demonic content?
Tim Hicks
Hi all:
I liked DOOM. Hey, I was passionate that DOOM was the greatest piece
of gaming software that I had ever played. But I eventually deleted
it from my disk because of its demonic content.
I poked a little at Stone, but found its graphics boring and
unrealistic... no "total immersion" feeling to it.
I would love to find another game that has all the visual quality that
DOOM has, but without the references to demons, lost-souls, Satanic
symbolism, etc. Is there any game out there that has the graphics
quality and general "feel" of DOOM, but without all that other crap?
Yes, I know I can edit the content of DOOM. No thanks.
- Tim
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Cogito, ergo, bang. Tim Hicks
(I think, therefore, I shoot.) Software Consultant
hi...@rpichp.enet.dec.com
(919)941-4497
For the Politically Correct:
...yes, that's "shoot," as in gun.
- * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -
The opinions expressed are my own and certainly don't reflect
those of Digital Equipment Corporation... and who really gives
a hoot anyway?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Advanced Medium Range
> I would love to find another game that has all the visual quality that
> DOOM has, but without the references to demons, lost-souls, Satanic
> symbolism, etc. Is there any game out there that has the graphics
> quality and general "feel" of DOOM, but without all that other crap?
I saw the Dark Force slideshow, and thats just what you're looking for. Its
a Doom like game in a Star Wars setting. I think you can ftp it wuarchive.
wustl.edu.
Greetings,
Amraam.
==========================================================================
email: amr...@sting.hacktic.nl (Also for AMRAAM facts and ordering info)
==========================================================================
Brian Holland
Tim Hicks <hi...@mipswar.rtp.dec.com> wrote:
>
>
>I would love to find another game that has all the visual quality that
>DOOM has, but without the references to demons, lost-souls, Satanic
>symbolism, etc. Is there any game out there that has the graphics
>quality and general "feel" of DOOM, but without all that other crap?
>
is sought because the "Satanic symbolism, etc." is offensive to the
religious sensibilities of certain individuals. However, given that
the purpose of Doom is to destroy satan's minions, I thought that
the game would appeal to those of a religious bent. On the other hand,
if the demons, etc. were replaced with, say, humans, I thought there
was a commandment prohibiting their termination.
Oh well, I'm not very religious so there must be something
I don't understand.
--
Brian Holland PHONE: (202) 785-9100
MORRISON & HECKER FAX: (202) 785-9163
1150 18th Street - Suite 800 CIS: 70703,1307
Washington, D.C. 20036 hol...@access.digex.net
K R Maxson
Tim Hicks <hi...@mipswar.rtp.dec.com> wrote:
>I would love to find another game that has all the visual quality that
>DOOM has, but without the references to demons, lost-souls, Satanic
>symbolism, etc. Is there any game out there that has the graphics
>quality and general "feel" of DOOM, but without all that other crap?
I find it amusing that someone would be offended by references to demons,
but enjoy shoving a shotgun down somebody's throat and pulling the trigger
or watching chunks of bloody flesh fly away from a rocket explosion.
Harlan Hilman
>hi...@mipswar.rtp.dec.com (Tim Hicks) writes:
>> I would love to find another game that has all the visual quality that
>> DOOM has, but without the references to demons, lost-souls, Satanic
>> symbolism, etc. Is there any game out there that has the graphics
>> quality and general "feel" of DOOM, but without all that other crap?
>I saw the Dark Force slideshow, and thats just what you're looking for. Its
>a Doom like game in a Star Wars setting. I think you can ftp it wuarchive.
>wustl.edu.
Yes, it will be coming out this Fall. If you want something shareware,
Rise of the Triad will be coming out in the same time period by Apogee.
Jay Iscariot
>K R Maxson boldly proclaims in article <33bcs5$l...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> :
>\In article <33anol$k...@netnews.alf.dec.com>,
Yeah. Look at the Crusades and the Inquisition.
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>========================================}
> JAY ISCARIOT > "They say 'Knowledge is Power.' }
< (n...@delphi.com) < I used to think so." }
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< }
{ - Lord Byron }
{__________________________________________}
Bruce Rice
>Subject: Re: DOOM without demonic content?
>Tim Hicks <hi...@mipswar.rtp.dec.com> wrote:
>
>I would love to find another game that has all the visual quality that
>DOOM has, but without the references to demons, lost-souls, Satanic
>symbolism, etc. Is there any game out there that has the graphics
>quality and general "feel" of DOOM, but without all that other crap?
>
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Well, there's Alien-Doom wad. Kill aliens instead of Hell's demons.
I really don't see your point, unless you want to (in "kinda-virtual-Reality"
of course) run around playing hop-scotch with "good" things (as opposed to
all the "bad" things you listed in Doom). I agree that the're "crap", that's
what makes it so much fun to blow-em-away!
Oh well, it takes all kinds. #%^)
C-Ya'
Bruce R.
Clint
(Tim Hicks) wrote:
> Hi all:
>
> I liked DOOM. Hey, I was passionate that DOOM was the greatest piece
> of gaming software that I had ever played. But I eventually deleted
> it from my disk because of its demonic content.
Why? You don't think god has bashed a few demons in his day?
Clint
Jay Iscariot
>I liked DOOM. Hey, I was passionate that DOOM was the greatest piece
>of gaming software that I had ever played. But I eventually deleted
>it from my disk because of its demonic content.
>
>I poked a little at Stone, but found its graphics boring and
>unrealistic... no "total immersion" feeling to it.
that you're complaining there aren't any seat-cushions in the lifeboat. I
mean, it's like "Oh, I want a game with total immersion and cool graphics
but it has to be clean and Christian and good for the whole family. And
Blake Stone isn't good enough!" As a few people pointed out eariler, it's
not like the object of the game is to become a Satan Worshipper, it's
to go kick some demon butt. In other words: You are doing God's work.
That might seem blasphemous to you or something, but is it much worse than
shooting people? Maybe you'd rather play a nice Crusades 3D game, where
the object is to slaughter those heathens (like myself) and recover the
Holy Land for all good Christians everywhere, to worship a guy who said
killing was a no-no. Yeah, that's a great idea. Anyone wanna program
Crusades 3D? Then poor little christian Tim can be happy-wappy.
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>========================================}
> JAY "Dr. Wily" > "Uh-oh , looks like the answering" }
: ISCARIOT : machine is demonically possessed }
< (n...@delphi.com) < again. Better that than no messages }
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< at all, though!" }
{ -Sam and Max, }
{ Freelance Police }
{----------------------------------------}
Peter Berger
Nalhafar <gu...@ruby.indstate.edu> wrote:
>one of my few complaints is that it has all this satanic symbolism. It adds
>nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
I see fishing season started early this year.
--
........................................................................
Peter G. Berger, Esq. Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh
Internet: pet...@telerama.lm.com Phone: 412/481-3505 Fax: 412/481-8568
http://www.lm.com/ gopher://gopher.lm.com/ ftp://ftp.lm.com/
Nalhafar
nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
satan is cool. I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
That would really defeat the purpose of christanity. What I would rather
have is to hunt down aliens, monsters, or just plain human sickos (nazis
etc. . .).
If you really care boycott doom II, lucas arts is comming out with a game
that is just as good (dark forces). I myself wont pay for DOOM II.
AndyB
>nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
I actually believe it adds a great deal to the game. "Hell" has quite a bit
of imagery built into it. Whether we believe in it or not, all of us
have this picture of "hell." I for one like the idea of running amok
*and* kicking butt in hell and I don't even believe in the real thing.
>I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
>satan is cool.
Let's see. I've talked to most of the guys at iD, through email mostly,
over the past year. Now, I'm just guessing, but they all seem pretty
stable to me. Who cares what their view on "Satan" is? Personally, I
like the image of Satan because it pisses off Christian Fundamentalists.
And "No", that doesn't make me a bad person. And "No", I'm not on my way
to a human sacrifice.
>I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
>That would really defeat the purpose of christanity.
Depends on your opinion of Christians. Okay, okay, that one is uncalled
for, *currently*. [Go back a few hundred years though...]
>If you really care boycott doom II, lucas arts is comming out with a game
>that is just as good (dark forces). I myself wont pay for DOOM II.
If you really care, make a kill file and quit tying YOUR religious
beliefs to MY games.
--
Okay, off my soapbox. Sorry, I just agitated with this sort of thing.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>one of my few complaints is that it has all this satanic symbolism. It adds
>nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
>
>I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
>satan is cool. I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
>That would really defeat the purpose of christanity. What I would rather
>have is to hunt down aliens, monsters, or just plain human sickos (nazis
>etc. . .).
gee.. they numbered the latest patch, Doom v 1.666. I think they are
into this satan thing.. Actually I'm fairly sure its a combination of
a slight fasination with the occult and marketing. Id is trying to make
the game as controversal as possible with really ticking someone off.
I'm sure that they could top images of satan with images of women being
raped or killings of public officals but they might not live to see profits
from Doom. I remember when the game Satan's Hollow caused a fuss.
Yeah, I'd rather be shooting Aliens and Monsters too.
>
>If you really care boycott doom II, lucas arts is comming out with a game
>that is just as good (dark forces). I myself wont pay for DOOM II.
I'm not going to buy Doom II to either. But thats mainly because there are
soo many addons for Doom I.
Robert Merritt
-* Disclaimer: Opinions posted here are mine and not of my employer
-*"There is always death and taxes. However death doesn't get worse every year"
Jeff Kirvin
Nalhafar <gu...@ruby.indstate.edu> wrote:
>one of my few complaints is that it has all this satanic symbolism. It adds
>nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
>satan is cool.
Since Doom was released, this has puzzled me. (Actually, I had the same
questions about Wolf3D) Most Christian agree that Satan and his minions
are _bad_. Wouldn't killing them be _good_? Yes, there is Satanic imagery
in Doom, but it is portrayed in a negative manner. It's like Wolf3D. Yes
Hitler and the Nazis are there, but you're knocking them off like Duke
Wayne or something. In both games, you are one of the Good Guys.
>I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
>That would really defeat the purpose of christanity.
I wouldn't say that. Or have you forgotten the Crusades? The Spanish
Inquisition?
>If you really care boycott doom II, lucas arts is comming out with a game
>that is just as good (dark forces). I myself wont pay for DOOM II.
This is rich. As we've seen in TIE Fighter, Imperial solders are people
too, with families, hopes and dreams. They just happen to be working for
a dictator. Killing them in Dark Forces is somehow more "pure" or
"Christian" than killing evil demons from Hell itself?
--
______________________________________________________________________
Jeff Kirvin | Proud member of Team OS/2! | jki...@pafosu1.hq.af.mil
"This is the case where the loonies are running the asylum."
- J. Michael Straczynski
Disclaimer: I do _not_ speak for the United States Air Force...
Scott Le Grand
Now wait, in Doom you hunt down demons and kill the possessed. What's so
anti-Christian about this that isn't anti-Christian about hunting down human
sickos, aliens, and monsters? Last time I checked, Jesus had said something
about turning the other cheek about such situations so I think they're
both pretty anti-christian myself...
I'll bet a Rush Limbaugh game where you hunted down "liberals" would
sell pretty well though...
Scott
Peter Herweijer
>one of my few complaints is that it has all this satanic symbolism. It adds
>nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
>
>I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
>satan is cool. I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
>That would really defeat the purpose of christanity. What I would rather
>have is to hunt down aliens, monsters, or just plain human sickos (nazis
>etc. . .).
I _really_ don't understand this kind of complaint. They had Nazis in
Wolfenstein. For its superior successor they needed something even
worse than Nazis, and Satanic aliens seem to fit the bill quite nicely.
What's the logic involved? When in Wolfenstein you have to slaughter
Nazis, nobody thinks it's a pro-Nazi game. Now in DOOM you can assault
the denizens of Hell itself, and so-called Christians start to complain
that the game is Satanic. Please stop knee-jerking, see it as a good
training for the final battle at the end of Time, just in case you're
ever allowed to join the ranks of the Lord's army. I understand that at
the end of DOOM ][, you even have the opportunity to take a good shot
at the Horned One himself---isn't fighting Satan in ways great and small
something that should occupy the thoughts of any good Christian?
>If you really care boycott doom II, lucas arts is comming out with a game
>that is just as good (dark forces). I myself wont pay for DOOM II.
*shrug* Your business. If iD thought, as you suggest, that "satan is
cool" they would've set the action in Heaven and let you shoot angels.
Don't tell me that's your idea of a good Christian WAD :^)
Hmmmmm... it _would_ be a novel idea for a PWAD though... ]8^>
- Peter Herweijer
pie...@sci.kun.nl
Kevin Barrett
Whoops. At least when I play, I am blowing away aliens, monsters, and human
sickos. THEY are the forces of evil and the Satan worshipers and I feel
just fine firing rockets up their asses. I also have never read where you
(the main character) are anything but "a space marine, one of Earth's
finest..." Which means you probably aren't active in your local Rotary
club, but I don't think that makes you an evil person either.
Point is: Lighten up. Have fun. Play DOOM!
--
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Kevin Barrett | Q: "I have decided that you and your crew |
| kbar...@romulus.orl.mmc.com | are not worthy to live." |
| Martin Marietta Corp. | Picard: "Shaddap ya numbskull!" <BONK> |
| Orlando, Florida, USA | - Star Trek: The Stooge Generation |
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
Mike Newton
>nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
>
>I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
>satan is cool. I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
>That would really defeat the purpose of christanity. What I would rather
>have is to hunt down aliens, monsters, or just plain human sickos (nazis
>etc. . .).
So you think it's okay to kill "aliens, monsters, or just plain human sickos"
as long as it's not in a "hellish" environment??? I'm not sure I understand
your thought process here. Are you afraid that iD is working for satan
himself and that by buying DOOM people are selling their souls to the devil?
Personally, I don't think there's any difference between killing possessed
beings and killing any of the things you listed. Killing is killing!
Besides, you seem to be missing one vital point, DOOM is a game and only a
game...fantasy, remember.
As for the people at iD being messed up...aren't we all a bit messed up:)
Mike
>If you really care boycott doom II, lucas arts is comming out with a game
>that is just as good (dark forces). I myself wont pay for DOOM II.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"triangle man, triangle man, triangle man hates person man Mike Newton
they have a fight, triangle wins...triangle man." <m...@netcom.com>
-They Might Be Giants
jlist
: one of my few complaints is that it has all this satanic symbolism. It adds
: I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
: satan is cool. I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
: That would really defeat the purpose of christanity. What I would rather
: have is to hunt down aliens, monsters, or just plain human sickos (nazis
: etc. . .).
NO NO ! Not again !
The debate about violence in games and the contents of the DooM game(s)
in particular has been discussed to death. Killing and murdering is NOT
good. But.....you're playing a game right ? It's better to have violence
on a computer screen that going down to the mall and shoot everybody.
What do you mean with hunting down aliens monsters ? In DooM you're doing
just that or am I wrong ?
The point is: you're playing a game. DooM is fun. If you're offended,
don't play the game and don't read this newsgroup.
: If you really care boycott doom II, lucas arts is comming out with a game
: that is just as good (dark forces). I myself wont pay for DOOM II.
Sorry, but this is really strange. In Dark Forces you will be killing
people also. What's the difference with DooM ?
C-ya,
Johan List - "With each born child,
the potential of humankind is born again"
E-mail: jl...@xs4all.nl
Steve Mitchell
>I'll bet a Rush Limbaugh game where you hunted down "liberals" would
>sell pretty well though...
>Scott
I'd rather a game where I could repeatedly blast away at Rush himself... love
to see his guts splattered against the wall... or perhaps impaled on a spike.
Steve
-even a Canadian can be offended by this guys arrogant-ignorance.
er...@mathworks.com
In article <steve.140...@omniplus.com>, <st...@omniplus.com> writes:
> Path:
MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas
edu!utnut!torn!fonorola!news.InterLink.NET!G587.InterLink.NET!steve
> From: st...@omniplus.com (Steve Mitchell)
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
> Subject: Re: Rush Limbaugh was RE: (DOOM) it is too much.
> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 15:41:24 UNDEFINED
> Organization: Interlink
> Lines: 11
> Distribution: world
> Message-ID: <steve.140...@omniplus.com>
> References: <33anol$k...@netnews.alf.dec.com> <xG9zO...@delphi.com>
<guest.14....@ruby.indstate.edu> <34nr6b$i...@news.mic.ucla.edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: g587.interlink.net
> X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B]
Oh, I rather liked that idea. It would give new meaning to the term
"bleeding heart liberal".
-Erick Asplund
Patrick Deupree
: In article <steve.140...@omniplus.com>, <st...@omniplus.com> writes:
: > I'd rather a game where I could repeatedly blast away at Rush himself... love
: > to see his guts splattered against the wall... or perhaps impaled on a spike.
: >
: > Steve
: > -even a Canadian can be offended by this guys arrogant-ignorance.
Heh. You could have Howard Stern as the guy blowing rush away. Have a lot
of fart sounds and such. :-)
--
A wise man once said that the only road to true enlightenment was through
failure.
Patrick Deupree
Iseult Technology
pdeu...@netcom.com
Danny
why don't you piss off! we don't need kids like you playing DOOM.
boycott my A&@!!!
regards,
Danny.
.
Joseph Robertson
Why? You don't seem to mind espousing your beliefs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Joseph Robertson "Too many of us +
+ da...@jax.jaxnet.com speak twice before +
+ we think." +
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Robertson
> In article <guest.14....@ruby.indstate.edu>,
> Nalhafar <gu...@ruby.indstate.edu> wrote:
> >one of my few complaints is that it has all this satanic symbolism. It adds
> >nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
> >I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
> >satan is cool.
>
> Since Doom was released, this has puzzled me. (Actually, I had the same
> questions about Wolf3D) Most Christian agree that Satan and his minions
> are _bad_. Wouldn't killing them be _good_? Yes, there is Satanic imagery
> in Doom, but it is portrayed in a negative manner. It's like Wolf3D. Yes
> Hitler and the Nazis are there, but you're knocking them off like Duke
> Wayne or something. In both games, you are one of the Good Guys.
I took this line of reasoning with earlier releases of Doom. Although
the satanic images bothered me, I kept reminding myself I was fighting against
the minions of evil. However, since Id has decided to number the current version
of their Doom Operarting System v1.666, I will no longer play Doom. I can handle
blowing up demons, ect. , but I will not play a game which I perceive as anti-
Christian.
>
> >I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
> >That would really defeat the purpose of christanity.
>
> I wouldn't say that. Or have you forgotten the Crusades? The Spanish
> Inquisition?
So, because these historical events were done in the "name" of Christianty
that somehow makes them represenative of true Christianity? We might as well
say that the Los Angeles cops convicted of beating Rodney King represent the
true nature of law enforcement.
Matthew Webster
>In article <guest.14....@ruby.indstate.edu> gu...@ruby.indstate.edu (Nalhafar) writes:
>>nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
>Oh NO! _Please_! Not again.. if you don't like it, don't buy it, if you
>do.. go for it. It's as simple as that. We've been through that ad nauseum
>at least 3 times, already.. siiighh!
Yup. I hold religious beliefs. I also like to rip into pink-chompers with
a chainsaw ("Shit! outta ammo! no worries... <hits key 1> ...COME AND GET
IT!!!" eeeeeeOOOWWWWW-chunka-chunka-eeeeeeeee!!!! "MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!")
>:)
oh...sorry... What I mean to say is, if you don't like DOOM, go back to
playing Blake Stone and stop annoying those of us who do.
>Diane
--
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Matt Webster ba...@cq-pan.cqu.edu.au webs...@topaz.cqu.edu.au
"Don't mix heroin, crack, speed, ecstasy and job interviews" - D*A*A*S
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
John E. Nickerson
supposed to do when he wouldn't sit down and shut up? Shoot him? Would
that be better? (:
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just Pretend that the wittiest signature you've ever seen is in this space
Ni...@Ra.MsState.Edu (James)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Underdog
: satan is cool. I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
: That would really defeat the purpose of christanity. What I would rather
: have is to hunt down aliens, monsters, or just plain human sickos (nazis
: etc. . .).
Killing monsters, aliens, or human sickos? What do you think you DO in
doom. Doom is a game. It's little beams of light coming off a monitor and
your fingers reacting. The biggest side effect of Doom is that nice,
content feeling you get after stomping all over the asses of all things
evil. <slap>
Damn. I've wandered.
Anyways, lighten up. Boycott if you like. Buy if you like. <shrug> Doesn't
make any difference to me.
/\_/\
\ /
\o/
Underdog
Andrew McConnell
I took this line of reasoning with earlier releases of
> Doom. Although the satanic images bothered me, I kept reminding myself
> I was fighting against the minions of evil. However, since Id has
> decided to number the current version
> of their Doom Operarting System v1.666, I will no longer play Doom. I
> can handle blowing up demons, ect. , but I will not play a game which
> I perceive as anti- Christian.
This reminds me of the time that my mother (a 5th grade school
teacher) received a phone call from one of her student's parents
demanding an explanation as to why the solution to one of the
multiplication problems that she had assigned worked out to 666.
(I would have loved to hear her say "Uhh, because its a number.")
How is a NUMBER somehow more symbolic and "evil" than Satanic Imagery?
Hypocracy at its finest. I think that its important to stand up for
your beliefs, but don't use "well, thats only a _little_ evil"
philosophy. (Similar to the "a _little_ pregnant" school of thought.)
--
Andrew McConnell "Ford!" he said, "there's an infinite number of
Voice: (304) 594-9819 monkeys outside who want to talk to us about this
FAX: (304) 594-3951 script for 'Hamlet' they've worked out."
mcco...@source.asset.com -- Arthur Dent
Mike Newton
>> So, because these historical events were done in the "name" of Christianty
>>that somehow makes them represenative of true Christianity? We might as well
>>say that the Los Angeles cops convicted of beating Rodney King represent the
>>true nature of law enforcement.
>>
> I say they do. They were just doing their job. What were they
>supposed to do when he wouldn't sit down and shut up? Shoot him? Would
>that be better? (:
Oh please. There were 13 (or was it 11, it doesn't matter) cops. They
could've just sat on him and he couldn't have moved. I do believe it was a
good example of "excessive force"! Unfortunately, it happens all too
frequently in this and many other countries!
--
===============================================================================
| "So I open my door to my enemies |
| And I ask could we wipe the slate clean Mike Newton |
| But they tell me to please go fuck myself <m...@netcom.com> |
| You know you just can't win" |
| -Pink Floyd |
===============================================================================
Walter Walls
Mark Ellis
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit> <rcmerrit> wrote:
>In article <guest.14....@ruby.indstate.edu> gu...@ruby.indstate.edu (Nalhafar) writes:
>>one of my few complaints is that it has all this satanic symbolism. It adds
>>nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
>>
>>I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
>>satan is cool. I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
>
>into this satan thing.. Actually I'm fairly sure its a combination of
>a slight fasination with the occult and marketing. Id is trying to make
>
>Robert Merritt
Yes, I believe the powers to be at ID may be a little too demonic minded for
me also. Look at this discription about their next game "QUAKE" from
"finger he...@idsoftware.com":
"Status of QUAKE---Updated: Thu, Sep 1st 11:41am
This will not be out until sometime next summer.
John now has ... [stuff deleted] ... You smash
his still body a few more times and cause him to explode! Now you and
your friend pick up all of the items your dead friend left on the
ground. As you are walking off you pick up his severed head and put
it in a bag. That will come in useful later... when you need something
to sacrifice to a demon."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, but I don't sacrifice to demons; even if it is just a game.
ID, if this is the way this one comes out you can forget my business.
Mark
mis...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
> it in a bag. That will come in useful later... when you need something
> to sacrifice to a demon."
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Sorry, but I don't sacrifice to demons; even if it is just a game.
> ID, if this is the way this one comes out you can forget my business.
Yeah, I'm christian (save the flames), and I have no problems with DOOM, I see
nothing wrong whatsoever about killing demons etc (taking on demons with a
mundane shotgun is a neat approach!). However, when It comes to sacrificing to
demons though I'm with you.
>>Juat another DOOM junky<<
franklin
about the satanic imagery etc.
On the other hand, the comment "it is too much." does seem to have a
certain truth to it. With the number of iconic walls etc., I don't think
we're looking at hell, I think we're looking at a satanic interior
decorators' convention! Let's face it - when they escape to Earth,
they'll spend the first 6 months repainting the buildings and carefully
arranging pyramids of skulls... All we'd have to do is hide the paint
cans and they'd be stuck :-)
Also, it's much cooler when the imagery has some game-related meaning. Like
the signs warning of a nearby baron. If you just cover everything with
pentagrams etc., you just get desensitised.
Dave
RICARDO MENDEZ
>nothing new to the game, and only takes away from a otherwise great game.
What the hell? What do you exactly want, Crucifix in Hell??? The game
announces itself with 'Wanna be a hero? Go to hell!' so you should have
known what it was like before you bought it.
>I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
>satan is cool. I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
>That would really defeat the purpose of christanity. What I would rather
>have is to hunt down aliens, monsters, or just plain human sickos (nazis
>etc. . .).
Yeah yeah yeah. So perhaps we can think of a game were you can turn the
other cheek every time you see a monster. Or perhaps the sickos like the
nazis aren't people and then christian laws don't apply to them. Not that I
defend sickos they should all just be done what they do, but that's an
interesting kind of way to see things... don't kill the peasant, kill the
nazi.
Ricardo J. Mendez
Yep, I'm not religious.
RICARDO MENDEZ
>into this satan thing.. Actually I'm fairly sure its a combination of
>a slight fasination with the occult and marketing.
What the hell if they are? It's they ticket. And if it's just marketing,
everybody has the right to make a living. If you don't like it, don't buy
it but leave it be.
Mike Newton
>>>I really wonder if the guys at ID are messed up, and do they think that
>>>satan is cool. I am not asking for a "christian" game of killing people.
>>
>>gee.. they numbered the latest patch, Doom v 1.666. I think they are
>>into this satan thing.. Actually I'm fairly sure its a combination of
>>a slight fasination with the occult and marketing. Id is trying to make
>>soo many addons for Doom I.
>
>me also. Look at this discription about their next game "QUAKE" from
>"finger he...@idsoftware.com":
[snip]
>it in a bag. That will come in useful later... when you need something
>to sacrifice to a demon."
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Sorry, but I don't sacrifice to demons; even if it is just a game.
>ID, if this is the way this one comes out you can forget my business.
Does this mean that you really do kill people? (like troopers, etc. in DOOM,
or any other game for that matter!)
What *are* you guys afraid of? I can't believe the level of insecurity
surrounding this topic. These games are NOT reality and have no affect
what-so-ever on reality. When you "sacrafice to a demon" in a game, it's not
like you're actually sacrificing anything! In any case, I'm sure iD will be
glad to "sacrafice" your business, as I'm sure they will get enough orders
without yours!
KROMHOUT D.M.
Where DO I find info about Quakes ?? I don't understand this finger-stuff.
Please detailed info (or else I won't understand again)
Kimono
Paul Smith
%% mis...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:
>>> ground. As you are walking off you pick up his severed head and
>>> put it in a bag. That will come in useful later... when you need
>>> something to sacrifice to a demon."
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Sorry, but I don't sacrifice to demons; even if it is just a
>> game. ID, if this is the way this one comes out you can forget
>> my business.
m> Yeah, I'm christian (save the flames), and I have no problems
m> with DOOM, I see nothing wrong whatsoever about killing demons
m> etc (taking on demons with a mundane shotgun is a neat
m> approach!). However, when It comes to sacrificing to demons
m> though I'm with you.
Hmm. I agree with many people here that being upset at a computer game
for using popular religious symbolism to add atmosphere is just pedantic
to the point of ridiculousness.
I can understand and even sympathize with those who feel DOOM is too
violent: the imagery of blasting something (even a monster) with a
shotgun or chaingun is extremely gory--not that I personally want any of
the gore removed you understand :)... but I could empathize with
complaints about violence, *especially* from the religious among us.
But the fact is these folks, who are supposed to "love thy neighbor",
"turn the other cheek", be basically non-violent loving people, don't
seem to care one whit about the carnage, blood, gore, and screams of
pain and death. But add a few pentagrams into the mix and all of a
sudden the game has "gone too far".
It really makes one cynical.
However, more too the point, as I understand it QUAKE isn't supposed to
be anything like the real world, or even the DOOM world: unlike DOOM
it's more of a fantasy world such as you might find in "Betrayal at
Krondor", "King's Quest", or "Ultima": there are numerous gods,
apparently demons, spells, etc. So "sacrificing to a demon" doesn't
mean practicing Satanism.
Now on the other hand, if that makes a difference to you perhaps you
should reexamine your conscience WRT DOOM; it seems like splitting hairs
to me...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith | That's the thing about being a boxer:
<psm...@wellfleet.com> | even when you're at the top of your field,
Wellfleet Communications, Inc. | people still hit you in the head.
Network Management Development | -- Paula Poundstone
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Expressed above are my opinions. Wellfleet takes no responsibility for them.>
Joseph Robertson
mcco...@source.asset.com (Andrew McConnell) wrote:
> > In article <QqYSkCaW...@jax.jaxnet.com>,
> > Joseph Robertson <da...@jax.jaxnet.com> wrote:
> > However, since Id has decided to number the current version
> > of their Doom Operarting System v1.666, I will no longer play Doom. I
> > can handle blowing up demons, ect. , but I will not play a game which
> > I perceive as anti- Christian.
> How is a NUMBER somehow more symbolic and "evil" than Satanic Imagery?
It's not...more symbolic; in the context of Doom, it is as evil as the
rest of the satanic images. I was simply stating the numbering of the Doom O.S.
to v1.666 was the last straw for me.
> Hypocracy at its finest. I think that its important to stand up for
> your beliefs, but don't use "well, thats only a _little_ evil"
> philosophy. (Similar to the "a _little_ pregnant" school of thought.)
Your're right. I should have gone with my gut feeling when I played Doom
for the first time.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
kenjordan on BIX <kenj...@BIX.com> wrote:
>rcme...@apgea.army.mil (Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>) writes:
>
>>If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human being not Satanism, what
>>is it then?
>>All other religions that have human life offerings, offer them to
>>gods. Only Satanism has offerings to a demon.
>
>I'm a little fuzzy on this, what exactly is the technical difference
>between a demon and a god?
>
>Ken Jordan
The only difference is what the followers call it. But its still important.
Lets say you sacrifice a player to the god Zues. Its clear that religion
isn't satanism. (ok, christans that claim all non-christian religions
are controlled by satan my argue the point..but..)
If you want a more techinical difference, a demon is hell's version of
angels. They aren't gods, they are servants of a higher power.
Robert Merritt
-* Disclaimer: Opinions posted here are mine and not of my employer
-*"There is always death and taxes. However death doesn't get worse every year"
er...@mathworks.com
In article <rSGTkCaW...@jax.jaxnet.com>, <da...@jax.jaxnet.com> writes:
> Path: MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!jaxnet.jaxnet.com!usenet
> From: da...@jax.jaxnet.com (Joseph Robertson)
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
> Subject: Re: (DOOM) it is too much.
> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 21:58:13 -0400
> Organization: JaxNet BBS (904) 292-4567
> Lines: 27
> Message-ID: <rSGTkCaW...@jax.jaxnet.com>
> References: <33anol$k...@netnews.alf.dec.com> <34mnnb$b...@news.u.washington.edu>
<34mv9l$j...@hq.hq.af.mil> <QqYSkCaW...@jax.jaxnet.com>
<351kbn$g...@source.asset.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: jax.jaxnet.com
Yes! I should have realized it before, but now it's too late! Doom is
an insidious trap laid by the Prince of Darkness. How clever of Him, to
conceal his machinations in a computer game! We're all dammed!
-Erick Asplund
The Unwittingly Dammed
David J. Warner
>refuse to play Doom's deathmatch mode for that reason.
AAAAAAA!!!! You evil bastard. We 1's and 0's are appalled by this
affront to our rights! You wouldn't kill a human opponent in a game, yet
you would just as soon slaughter all of US???? WHAT DID WE EVER DO TO
YOU?????? EQUAL RIGHTS FOR BINARIES!!!!!!!! STOP THE VIOLENCE!!!!!!!!
Sincerely,
The 33 million artists per second formerly known as an Intel 486DX-33.
--
L8A...
David J. (dwa...@cybernetics.net)
Director of Network Distribution, HardC.O.R.E.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
David J. Warner <dwa...@cybernetics.net> wrote:
>Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit> <rcmerrit> wrote:
>>I don't mind killing computer players, but real players bother me. I
>>refuse to play Doom's deathmatch mode for that reason.
>
>AAAAAAA!!!! You evil bastard. We 1's and 0's are appalled by this
>affront to our rights! You wouldn't kill a human opponent in a game, yet
>you would just as soon slaughter all of US???? WHAT DID WE EVER DO TO
>YOU?????? EQUAL RIGHTS FOR BINARIES!!!!!!!! STOP THE VIOLENCE!!!!!!!!
>
>Sincerely,
>
>The 33 million artists per second formerly known as an Intel 486DX-33.
>
Well, if you all didn't destory a 28 page college paper, I wouldn't
of had to do this.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
Paul Smith <psm...@wellfleet.com> wrote:
>
>However, more too the point, as I understand it QUAKE isn't supposed to
>be anything like the real world, or even the DOOM world: unlike DOOM
>it's more of a fantasy world such as you might find in "Betrayal at
>Krondor", "King's Quest", or "Ultima": there are numerous gods,
>apparently demons, spells, etc. So "sacrificing to a demon" doesn't
>mean practicing Satanism.
If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human bean not Satanism, what
is it then?
All other religions that have human life offerings, offer them to
gods. Only Satanism has offerings to a demon.
Robert Merritt
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>In article <352b3r$5...@orbitsun.mlb.sticomet.com> mel...@mlb.sticomet.com (Mark Ellis) writes:
>
>>it in a bag. That will come in useful later... when you need something
>>to sacrifice to a demon."
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>Sorry, but I don't sacrifice to demons; even if it is just a game.
>>ID, if this is the way this one comes out you can forget my business.
>
>surrounding this topic. These games are NOT reality and have no affect
>what-so-ever on reality. When you "sacrafice to a demon" in a game, it's not
>like you're actually sacrificing anything! In any case, I'm sure iD will be
>glad to "sacrafice" your business, as I'm sure they will get enough orders
>without yours!
Doing something in your heart is just as bad as doing it in real life.
Faith, the mind, and the soul being surrounded by the spirt is more
important that what happens in this reality.
I'm an athiest, but I have study religion alot and can understand
where people are coming from. However, I still will not play a
game which you go around sacrificing players to demons. I don't
mind killing computer players, but real players bother me. I
refuse to play Doom's deathmatch mode for that reason.
Robert Merritt
Rich
>In article <PSMITH.94S...@lemming.wellfleet.com>,
>Paul Smith <psm...@wellfleet.com> wrote:
>>
>If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human bean not Satanism, what
>is it then?
A video game?
>All other religions that have human life offerings, offer them to
>gods. Only Satanism has offerings to a demon.
So it's ok if we sacrifice in the name of Maya?
Symbols are what you make of them. Handing a pixellated head to a demon in
a video game has about as much impact as an athiest swearing on the cross.
-Rich
--
Rich "Twist" Lawrence DoD#9630 CIS:71101,2272 GEnie:R.LAWRENCE14
Air Warrior:#2471 r...@digex.com
Clipper: The Trojan Horse of the information highway.
Paul Martz
This is blatant witchcraft symbolism. Would you not buy a Ford Taurus
because the tail lights look exactly like Satan's two horns? Are you
against the US government because the Pentagon building, when viewed
from a certain angle, is a pentagram?
I applaud Id for naming their OS rev 1.666, in my opinion it makes a
mockery of the much more subtle Satanic symbolism we see in our
everyday life.
--
-paul "Eno is the one, Eno's the one to take
pma...@dsd.es.com One hundred percent for your stomach's sake...
Evans & Sutherland Bubbly bubbly Eno!"
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>rcme...@apgea.army.mil (Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>) writes:
>
>>In article <PSMITH.94S...@lemming.wellfleet.com>,
>>Paul Smith <psm...@wellfleet.com> wrote:
>>>
>
>>If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human bean not Satanism, what
>>is it then?
>
>A video game?
A video game? Games are suppose to be fun. Take anything to a demon
does not sound like fun to me. Why don't we have a game where we
run around collecting jews to be sent to a gas chamber?? Its a sick
concept. I am personally hopeful that ID is only joking about this
the Quake (Quack?) setting.
>
>>All other religions that have human life offerings, offer them to
>>gods. Only Satanism has offerings to a demon.
>
>So it's ok if we sacrifice in the name of Maya?
No, not really. But the person's comment which you edited out was
claiming that demons didn't mean satanism. I didn't say it was
ok in either case.
>
>Symbols are what you make of them. Handing a pixellated head to a demon in
>a video game has about as much impact as an athiest swearing on the cross.
Being an athiest myself, swearing on a cross would go against my
prinicipals. But then, so would handing a head to a demon in a video game.
Its all the worst considering that the "pixellated" head belongs to
a human player on the other side of a network.
Sunny Yum
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit> <rcmerrit> wrote:
One man's Angel is another man's demon.
--
Sunny D. Yum (n5...@marvin.cray.com) -- My Opinions Are MINE!
GCS d-- H-- s g+(-) p? au->+++ a- w+ v+(*) C++++$ UL++++ P- L+++ 3- E N++ K-
W- M-- V-- -po+ Y+ t- 5++ j- R- G? tv b++ D++ B(-) e+ u h!>++ f+ r n-(----) y?
Regis M Burek
|>
|> I'm an athiest, but I have study religion alot and can understand
|> where people are coming from. However, I still will not play a
|> game which you go around sacrificing players to demons. I don't
|> mind killing computer players, but real players bother me. I
|> refuse to play Doom's deathmatch mode for that reason.
|>
|> Robert Merritt
If you take your statement "I don't mind killing computer players,
but real players bother me." one step back, a programmer wrote
code for the "computer player", you are really playing the person
who designed the actions for the "computer player". Granted the
"computer player" has a limited skill set, and does yell damn...
from the other room. 8').
Killing is killing. It's either good or bad, not both.
And what gives us the right to say that satanism is bad.
For all we know the rest of creation, those "billions and billions"
of stars out there, satanism is the way to go. We and our
christian,jewish,______ (name your religion here) may be
considered the lunatic fringe by the rest of the universe.
Regis (I'm going shooting tonight 8^).) burek
Rich
>>A video game?
>A video game? Games are suppose to be fun.
Must be terrible to be so inhibited you don't find Doom and it's
ilk fun. If you can't disassociate the fact that it's only a game from
your real life values, then there's not a lot that can be done for you.
I think it's obvious to most of us the real reason id is patterning their
game they way they are is deliberate. It's a statement against the politically
correct whiners of the 90's; and for me that's one of the reasons I like it.
When I deal with some fanciful graphical image of a demon in a game I have
no qualms; becuase it's a damn video game, nothing to do with my immortal
soul or whatever. I realise this; others realize this; id realizes this.
>does not sound like fun to me. Why don't we have a game where we
>run around collecting jews to be sent to a gas chamber?? Its a sick
There are no demons running around to sacrifice to, unless you count drugs.
There WERE jewish people put through gas chambers. id is participating in
fantasy; you are talking about imitating a reality, one which they have
no desire to recreate.
kenjordan on BIX
>If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human bean not Satanism, what
>is it then?
>All other religions that have human life offerings, offer them to
>gods. Only Satanism has offerings to a demon.
I'm a little fuzzy on this, what exactly is the technical difference
Mark Alan Lang
might understand :
How would you feel if some game let you rape an 8 year old in order
to gain some bonus points?
Sure, it's only *A GAME* but still...!
---------------------------------------------------------
| Mark Lang | elis...@cmu.edu | eli...@metronet.com |
---------------------------------------------------------
Matija Nalis
: >>is it then?
: >
: >A video game?
: A video game? Games are suppose to be fun. Take anything to a demon
Are they ? I don't remember last time I played game that was fun...
Let's see.... Last few I played....
REUNION ? You go around destroying alien bases, and kill alian fleets before
they do same to your bases. Big amount of sweating while trying to controly
economy on your planets and produce enough weapons. Sound like fun ? Dunno,
it makes me feel angry and frustrated.
U.F.O. - Enemy unknown ? Keep shooting down aliens with laser and plasma
tanks, and throw bombs at them until all of them are dead ? Fun ? Well,
andrenaline level surely go up... Dunno about fun...
Rebel assault ? You are rebel and you try to avoid Forces of justice.. Fun ?
Tell me after Star Destroyer attack....
Dune II - same story... kill or be killed. Fun ?
: does not sound like fun to me. Why don't we have a game where we
Oh, so we are supposed to worry about YOUR sense of fun now ?
: run around collecting jews to be sent to a gas chamber?? Its a sick
: concept. I am personally hopeful that ID is only joking about this
hmmm ? I don't see what's wrong with killing deamons and Forces or Evil ?
Shouldn't that even be moralistic ? Would it be better if thay make game
opposite ? So you would have walls with pictures of God and would shoot
eveyone from heaven until you kill God personally ? Much better concept, eh
?
: the Quake (Quack?) setting.
Well aren't people making fuss about everything. People like looking movies
with sex and violence. They even more like buying games with sex and
violence (and with much blood and screams). Why ? Don't ask me. I just know
I like it.
: >a video game has about as much impact as an athiest swearing on the cross.
: Being an athiest myself, swearing on a cross would go against my
: prinicipals. But then, so would handing a head to a demon in a video game.
: Its all the worst considering that the "pixellated" head belongs to
: a human player on the other side of a network.
Well whats wrong with that ? He was out of luck, you wasn't.
Would it be better if the head was given to some God, let's say to Roman god
of war ?
Well, if you don't like violence in games anyway, you would never got to the
part where haed is handed to deamon :)
Matt Sayler
: >I'll bet a Rush Limbaugh game where you hunted down "liberals" would
: >sell pretty well though...
: >Scott
There's a patch (clinton12.zip, I think) that replaces cacodemons with Clinton
heads.
: I'd rather a game where I could repeatedly blast away at Rush himself... love
: to see his guts splattered against the wall... or perhaps impaled on a spike.
I agree. That would be incredibly fun :)
: Steve
: -even a Canadian can be offended by this guys arrogant-ignorance.
What do you mean *even* a Canadian? Most of the Americans I know (a good many
since I live in Texas) eat it up.
Paul Smith
rcm> In article <PSMITH.94S...@lemming.wellfleet.com>,
rcm> Paul Smith <psm...@wellfleet.com> wrote:
>> However, more too the point, as I understand it QUAKE isn't
>> supposed to be anything like the real world, or even the DOOM
>> world: unlike DOOM it's more of a fantasy world such as you might
>> find in "Betrayal at Krondor", "King's Quest", or "Ultima": there
>> are numerous gods, apparently demons, spells, etc. So
>> "sacrificing to a demon" doesn't mean practicing Satanism.
rcm> If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human bean not Satanism,
rcm> what is it then? All other religions that have human life
rcm> offerings, offer them to gods. Only Satanism has offerings to a
rcm> demon.
Please reread my post. As I said, as I understand it QUAKE is not set
in this world. We are talking about fantasy worlds here: Dungeons &
Dragons, Tolkein, etc. etc.
If this is true, you can't talk about "all other religions", or even any
religions: id is making them all up. You can't necessarily draw
parallels between anything in QUAKE and real life (of course, IMHO this
is true of DOOM as well but apparently that's not true for everyone).
Maybe in the world of QUAKE all supernatural beings, good and bad, are
called demons.
Or maybe "demons" is the common term for minions of both good and bad
deities... who knows.
This whole discussion is completely useless, the thing isn't going to be
out until next summer so let's just wait and see.
Mike Newton
>In article <mikCw2...@netcom.com>, Mike Newton <m...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>What *are* you guys afraid of? I can't believe the level of insecurity
>>surrounding this topic. These games are NOT reality and have no affect
>>what-so-ever on reality. When you "sacrafice to a demon" in a game, it's not
>>like you're actually sacrificing anything! In any case, I'm sure iD will be
>>glad to "sacrafice" your business, as I'm sure they will get enough orders
>>without yours!
>
>Doing something in your heart is just as bad as doing it in real life.
>Faith, the mind, and the soul being surrounded by the spirt is more
>important that what happens in this reality.
Well, I guess I'm "Knee Deep" in this now. When I kill things in DOOM I am
NOT in any way doing this in my heart. It's a game and my heart has nothing
to do with it. If I played games with my heart I would've been an extremely
messed up child. Just think of all those little men in those space ships in
Asteroids I must have killed. Or the guys driving those tanks in BattleZone.
Etc.
>I'm an athiest, but I have study religion alot and can understand
>where people are coming from.
I am not an athiest, but half of my major is Philosophy, so I have also
studied much religion. For some religions, I can understand why these people
feel the way they do, but that doesn't mean I agree.
>However, I still will not play a game which you go around sacrificing
>players to demons. I don't mind killing computer players, but real
>players bother me.
I promise, a battle-axe will not be included in your purchase of Quake. You
won't have to actually cut off the other players head to get it to work in the
game. There is a BIG difference between fantasy and reality. DOOM, etc. is
fantasy. Think of it as acting if you want to. Or do you think that Bruce
Willis (John McClaine from "Die Hard") is a killer at heart because he acted
like he was killing for the movie. To me, acting is more real than playing a
computer game, and I still don't think Bruce is going to hack up Demi one
night out of frustration!
>I refuse to play Doom's deathmatch mode for that reason.
You're missing out on the best part of the game. Too bad!
Mike
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"triangle man, triangle man, triangle man hates person man Mike Newton
they have a fight, triangle wins...triangle man." <m...@netcom.com>
-They Might Be Giants
Mike Newton
>Paul Smith <psm...@wellfleet.com> wrote:
>>
>>However, more too the point, as I understand it QUAKE isn't supposed to
>>be anything like the real world, or even the DOOM world: unlike DOOM
>>it's more of a fantasy world such as you might find in "Betrayal at
>>Krondor", "King's Quest", or "Ultima": there are numerous gods,
>>apparently demons, spells, etc. So "sacrificing to a demon" doesn't
>>mean practicing Satanism.
>
>If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human bean not Satanism, what
>is it then?
>All other religions that have human life offerings, offer them to
>gods. Only Satanism has offerings to a demon.
You know, as I read this thread, I think I must be crazy or something. From
these posts, you would think that the "I can't sacrafice to a demon" side
believes that these games are, somehow, linked to reality. Thus, whenever you
"sacrafice a severed head" in a game (which sounds cool to me...in a game!),
you are somehow sacraficing your beliefs in reality. If you believe it is
wrong to cut somebody's head off and sacrafice it to a demon, than you're
probably right so don't do it...in real life. However, trust yourself and
your beliefs enough to know that just because you do it in a game doesn't mean
you have to sacrafice your beliefs as well! We've all been listening to the
Tipper Gore's of the world too much. They would have you believe that violent
games have an adverse affect on people. I tell you this, as long as we say
they will have this affect, they probably will. If we, however, decided to
believe that a game couldn't change who a person was, than it probably
wouldn't. Just my 2c worth!
Mike
Doug Osborn
>If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human bean not Satanism, what
>is it then?
What about baked beans? My younger brother eats a lot of them, and the dark
forces eminating from him are pretty evil. Also, we have to worry about
mung beans, broad beans, string beans,... I mean, what if *they* get
possessed by the Prince of Darkness? Idiots!
Cheers,
Doug
<disclaimer> Absolutely nothing to do with my employer.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>rcme...@apgea.army.mil (Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>) writes:
>
>>>A video game?
>
>>A video game? Games are suppose to be fun.
>
>Must be terrible to be so inhibited you don't find Doom and it's
>ilk fun. If you can't disassociate the fact that it's only a game from
>your real life values, then there's not a lot that can be done for you.
We are talking about Quake, not Doom. Thanks for reading my post before
you comment. :-\
I like Doom. I've been playing videogames since the 70's and
Doom is the action game I played the most. However I fine that
the satanic imagery, the gore, the over use of human characters
distracting. I personally play with the Alien wads more than
the regular graphic set.
However back to my beef. Id is planning on taking this furthur.
I personally think human sacrafice is a line you do not cross.
Especailly when they are actualy players.
>
[snip]
Peter Herweijer
> How would you feel if some game let you rape an 8 year old in order
>to gain some bonus points?
WAY COOL! Is it shareware? Where can I ftp it? How many bonus
points do you get?
- Peter Herweijer
pie...@sci.kun.nl
Richard C. Atkins
I feel sorry for you.
-Rich the Psyko One
ps...@astro.ocis.temple.edu
Rich
>In article <rl.779579320@access3>, Rich <r...@access3.digex.net> wrote:
>>rcme...@apgea.army.mil (Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>) writes:
>>
>>Must be terrible to be so inhibited you don't find Doom and it's
>>ilk fun. If you can't disassociate the fact that it's only a game from
>>your real life values, then there's not a lot that can be done for you.
>We are talking about Quake, not Doom. Thanks for reading my post before
>you comment. :-\
"And it's ilk". Thank you for reading my post before you comment.
>the satanic imagery, the gore, the over use of human characters
>distracting. I personally play with the Alien wads more than
>the regular graphic set.
There is no difference because it is a _friggin game_. When the counter for
damage equals X against the Alien queen the game plays the appropriate
animation and notes that that position in the opponent array is no longer
active. Same thing happens if it happens to be a human bitmap, or a tomato,
or whatever the hell you want to put in there.
Besides, the Aliens are a not very subtle substitute for humans anyway
(even in the movies). Just because there's a level of abstraction between
you and the object shouldn't effect your values.
>I personally think human sacrafice is a line you do not cross.
>Especailly when they are actualy players.
The actual player is some bored near-sighted guy in boston slurping a coke,
not an image you tote around with you in the game.
Mike Newton
> To put things in a light that the rest of us non-religious types
>might understand :
>
> How would you feel if some game let you rape an 8 year old in order
>to gain some bonus points?
>
> Sure, it's only *A GAME* but still...!
Like how? Is there a new interface involving blow-up dolls or something
coming with the next Leisure Suit Larry? Nice try, but it's still just a
game. Not necessarily my type of game, as I prefer mass mutilation and
destruction, but still just a game.
Rich
>>"And it's ilk". Thank you for reading my post before you comment.
>I assume you ment doom like games. Such as Wolf 3d, depth dewlers, Cyclones
>and Dark Forces. 3d games. Quake is going to be a 6d game.
You assumed wrong.
Howard Wilson
: Being an athiest myself, swearing on a cross would go against my
: prinicipals. But then, so would handing a head to a demon in a video game.
: Its all the worst considering that the "pixellated" head belongs to
: a human player on the other side of a network.
Maybe you should try MY beliefs for awhile. They are based on intelligence,
which is why not many people follow it. I can't even say I'm an atheist.
The closest is agnostic, but I couldn't even claim to that. *I*, unlike
raving fundies, don't claim to be able to speak for any gods/goddesses.
Also, being based on intelligence, my views allow games such as Quake,
Doom, and others. *I* know that handing a set of pixels to another
set of pixels won't send me to Hell, and on the off chance that it
DOES, I don't want to spend eternity with such a petty higher power
anyway. Doesn't matter what the pixels look like, to me or any
higher power that may or may not exist.
Howard
In closing, I would just like to say that I hope 'god' has a lot
better things to worry about. He/she is probably too busy playing
DOOM to listen to self-serving whiners.
--
st...@okcforum.osrhe.edu | "Remember, the truth that once was spoken:
I speak for no one but myself, | to love another person is to see the face
and no one else speaks for me. | of God." - Les Miserables fnord
Commence strategic maneuvers at audio command signal. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, begin.
er...@mathworks.com
In article <8iRr5Ui00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, <Elis...@CMU.EDU> writes:
> Path:
MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!das-news.harvard.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.c
mu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!ml5t+
> From: Mark Alan Lang <Elis...@CMU.EDU>
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
> Subject: Re: (DOOM) it is too much.
> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 17:55:44 -0400
> Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
> Lines: 12
> Message-ID: <8iRr5Ui00...@andrew.cmu.edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu
Well, 8 is a little young for me.
-Erick Asplund
Scott Le Grand
> We are talking about Quake, not Doom. Thanks for reading my post before
> you comment. :-\
> I like Doom. I've been playing videogames since the 70's and
> Doom is the action game I played the most. However I fine that
> the satanic imagery, the gore, the over use of human characters
> distracting. I personally play with the Alien wads more than
> the regular graphic set.
It's nice, but the face huggers floating in their air sort of
ruin it for me... I think I'll prefer AvP on the Jaguar even though
it only has a Wolf3D-like graphics engine with spiffier textures...
I find myself longing for more varied monsters in Doom. THe other problem
with Aliens Doom is that they all still behave like the monsters they
are based upon. I hope Quake allows the wadsters to design their own
monster behaviors to some extent...
> However back to my beef. Id is planning on taking this furthur.
> I personally think human sacrafice is a line you do not cross.
> Especailly when they are actualy players.
Now look, this is the guy's opinion... He doesn't want human sacrifice
in video games. He's entitled to it... He's entitled to not give ID his
business in order to express his dissatisifaction. He's even entitled
to encourage those that agree with him not to give ID their business if
they don't want human sacrifice in their games. The only times this
gets scary are 1) When he doesn't have the right to express this opinion or
2) People with a minority opinion like this intimidate the company into
backing down... Now if he starts telling that I don't have the right
to sacrifice humans in my video games, that's another story...
As long as people feel free to disagree, I am not worried. Most people IMO,
myself included, enjoy blowing things away and performing cruel and unusual
punishment upon bitmaps... Therefore, we provide ID with their market to
make games including human sacrifice and other amusing atrocities...
> [snip]
> >
> Robert Merritt
> -* Disclaimer: Opinions posted here are mine and not of my employer
> -*"There is always death and taxes. However death doesn't get worse every year"
Top Ten Video Game Atrocities to Date
10. SFII opening where White guy is cheered on by crowd of white guys to
deck a black guy
9. Wolf-3D
8. Exploding humans in Doom
7. Mortal Kombat II Fatalities
6. Kasumi Ninja Fatalities
5. Way of the Warrior Fatalities
4. Michael Jackson Strangled (from a demo we wrote around 1984 to open a party)
3. Smurf-3D
2. Barney Doom
1. The domination of arcades by fighting games
1.
Mike Newton
>>Symbols are what you make of them. Handing a pixellated head to a demon in
>>a video game has about as much impact as an athiest swearing on the cross.
>
>Being an athiest myself, swearing on a cross would go against my
>prinicipals. But then, so would handing a head to a demon in a video game.
>Its all the worst considering that the "pixellated" head belongs to
>a human player on the other side of a network.
For the last time, that "pixellated" head does NOT in any way belong to
anybody. It's fantasy. In fact, it's only a sprite which will probably look
exactly the same every time, no matter who's playing. Did you land on "Go
Directoly To Jail..." in Monopoly? Tell me, did you *really* go to jail
because of it? No, I think not. This is *no* different.
mel...@mlb.sticomet.com
In article <mikCw2...@netcom.com>, <m...@netcom.com> writes:
> In article <352b3r$5...@orbitsun.mlb.sticomet.com> mel...@mlb.sticomet.com
(Mark Ellis) writes:
>
> >it in a bag. That will come in useful later... when you need something
> >to sacrifice to a demon."
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >Sorry, but I don't sacrifice to demons; even if it is just a game.
> >ID, if this is the way this one comes out you can forget my business.
>
> or any other game for that matter!)
>
> What *are* you guys afraid of? I can't believe the level of insecurity
> surrounding this topic. These games are NOT reality and have no affect
> what-so-ever on reality. When you "sacrafice to a demon" in a game, it's not
> like you're actually sacrificing anything! In any case, I'm sure iD will be
> glad to "sacrafice" your business, as I'm sure they will get enough orders
> without yours!
>
So, I guess nothing would bother you in a game? It wouldn't bother you to be
a character in a game who rapes women? It wouldn't bother you to be a person
in a game who throws small children off cliffs? I use these extreme examples
only to make a point (because I hope you would be bothered): there are certain
levels of tolerance for everyone as to what they will and won't accept. I
*won't* accept sacrificing to demons because of my religious beliefs (and I
also have beliefs which go beyond religion which say this type of thing does
negatively affect the society we live in). I'm not afraid of becoming demonic
because of a game, I just have beliefs which make me look on demons the way you
may look on rape and murder. I don't have a problem killing demons, just bowing
down to them in anyway. I realize you (and others) may not understand this. I
also believe in iD's right to produce and sell such a game (except for maybe
those deemed to be too young).
And your right, I'm sure they will get plenty of business for such a game. But,
maybe they won't if enough people like me speak out (thanks to free speech) and
decide not to buy.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>>In article <PSMITH.94S...@lemming.wellfleet.com>,
>>Paul Smith <psm...@wellfleet.com> wrote:
>
>>is it then?
>
>What about baked beans? My younger brother eats a lot of them, and the dark
>forces eminating from him are pretty evil. Also, we have to worry about
>mung beans, broad beans, string beans,... I mean, what if *they* get
>possessed by the Prince of Darkness? Idiots!
>
Well Doug, in the past 1000 year history of satanism, there has never
been any mention of baked beans being a servent of a demon.
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
>rcme...@apgea.army.mil (Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>) writes:
>
>>In article <rl.779579320@access3>, Rich <r...@access3.digex.net> wrote:
>>>rcme...@apgea.army.mil (Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>) writes:
>>>
>>>Must be terrible to be so inhibited you don't find Doom and it's
>>>ilk fun. If you can't disassociate the fact that it's only a game from
>>>your real life values, then there's not a lot that can be done for you.
>
>>We are talking about Quake, not Doom. Thanks for reading my post before
>>you comment. :-\
>
>"And it's ilk". Thank you for reading my post before you comment.
I assume you ment doom like games. Such as Wolf 3d, depth dewlers, Cyclones
and Dark Forces. 3d games. Quake is going to be a 6d game.
Robert Merritt
Neil L. Fradkin
You could picture Rush with a bloated head wheeling
around the corridors in a swivel chair because he's too heavy
to walk. ;)
Mike Newton
>So, I guess nothing would bother you in a game? It wouldn't bother you to be
>a character in a game who rapes women? It wouldn't bother you to be a person
>in a game who throws small children off cliffs?
It would bother me if such a market became reality in this country now. But,
it wouldn't bother me if somebody felt there was a market for such a game and
thus created it and sold it. I would not play any games based on rape and as
far as small children go, it would depend on the game. I've shot or punched,
etc. imps and troopers off of ledges in DOOM so....
>I *won't* accept sacrificing to demons because of my religious beliefs (and I
>also have beliefs which go beyond religion which say this type of thing does
>negatively affect the society we live in).
In what way do you think this would adversely affect society? I can tell you,
as far as I'm concerned, I'm not going out and shooting anybody because of
DOOM (I'm a pacifist!) and I'm surely not going to sacrafice my friends
severed-head to a demon after QUAKE comes out (which I'm sure makes him
happy:). So what affects do you perceive coming from a game such as this?
>I'm not afraid of becoming demonic because of a game, I just have beliefs which
>make me look on demons the way you may look on rape and murder. I don't have a
>problem killing demons, just bowing down to them in anyway.
My response to this is the same it has always been. These would not be *real*
demons, just game demos. You're not really killing them either (sorry to rain
on your parade). In that they're fake, whether you bow to them or kill them
makes absolutely no difference as they are not real anyway.
>I realize you (and others) may not understand this.
What I don't understand is this. For you, is killing the demons in a game
okay because it's just a game? If yes, then why is it not just a game when
you're sacraficing stuff to the demons? If no, then is it okay because you
think it's okay to kill demons? If so, then I would question your "religious"
beliefs if they allow for the killing of anything at all!
Mike
--
Joseph Robertson
> Yes! I should have realized it before, but now it's too late! Doom is
> an insidious trap laid by the Prince of Darkness. How clever of Him, to
> conceal his machinations in a computer game! We're all dammed!
>
> -Erick Asplund
> The Unwittingly Dammed
To quote Charles Colson: "Reason is no match for ridicule".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Joseph Robertson "Too many of us +
+ da...@jax.jaxnet.com speak twice before +
+ we think." +
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daryl Krzewinski
> Maybe you should try MY beliefs for awhile. They are based on intelligence,
> which is why not many people follow it. I can't even say I'm an atheist.
> The closest is agnostic, but I couldn't even claim to that. *I*, unlike
> raving fundies, don't claim to be able to speak for any gods/goddesses.
> Also, being based on intelligence, my views allow games such as Quake,
> Doom, and others. *I* know that handing a set of pixels to another
> set of pixels won't send me to Hell, and on the off chance that it
> DOES, I don't want to spend eternity with such a petty higher power
> anyway. Doesn't matter what the pixels look like, to me or any
> higher power that may or may not exist.
>
> Howard
Hallelujah brother!
I couldn't agree more with you. How refreshing to see someone use simple
common sense (which is an oxymoron in itself, as common sense is not that
common), in determining their actions and moralities.
Life is such a precious gift with so much to experience that it seems
petty beyond description to fret over the imagined "demonic content"
of a simple game made only for entertainment. I can think of maybe
6,000,000,000 things in the world that are more deserving of concern.
- Daryl
P.S. I also think this thread is getting too off topic for
c.s.p.i.g.action.
David J. Warner
>In article <356u26$n...@turing.mathworks.com>, er...@mathworks.com wrote:
>> Yes! I should have realized it before, but now it's too late! Doom is
>> an insidious trap laid by the Prince of Darkness. How clever of Him, to
>> conceal his machinations in a computer game! We're all dammed!
>
>
To quote Crow T. Robot: "Oh, bite me, it's fun!"
--
L8A...
David J. (dwa...@cybernetics.net)
Director of Network Distribution, HardC.O.R.E.
David J. Warner
>[snip snip]
> And I think, as you do too, that any game as I described above is
>just way too disgusting/distasteful/disturbing/sick/totally against my
>personal code of morality/etc.
> Now, keep in mind why you dislike commiting rape in a game.
> I'm just suggesting that other people object to human sacrafice for
>very similar reasons.
> I could be totally wrong, though, not being one of those people.
Here's something to ponder:
The Spaniards, good Christians that they were, were so shocked and
horrified by the human sacrafices of the Aztecs that they killed 'em
all off.
ObDOOM: If people are so concerned about the demonic imagery in DOOM,
they can wait until Star Wars:Dark Forces comes out and go with that.
Killing a fictional book/movie/pop culture menace isn't so bad, now,
is it?
Paul Martz
> In article <QqYSkCaW...@jax.jaxnet.com>,
> > So, because these historical events were done in the "name" of Christianty
> >that somehow makes them represenative of true Christianity? We might as well
> >say that the Los Angeles cops convicted of beating Rodney King represent the
> >true nature of law enforcement.
Not, but the crusades and the inquisition were a part of christianity,
just like cops beating Rodney King were a part of LA law enforcement.
This really has nothing to do with the subject at hand, sorry I posted
it.
--
-paul "Eno is the one, Eno's the one to take
pma...@dsd.es.com One hundred percent for your stomach's sake...
Evans & Sutherland Bubbly bubbly Eno!"
Pete.Ramsden
conversation. It's starting to take up too much energy to double click the
mouse past this shit.
aceman
Mark Alan Lang
it is too much. by Paul Ma...@dsd.es.com
> In article <8iRr5Ui00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Mark Alan Lang
<Elis...@CMU.EDU
> > writes:
> > How would you feel if some game let you rape an 8 year old in order
> > to gain some bonus points?
>
> would not be interested in such a game.
>
> But just because a game's rev is 1.666 is no reason to not play it, in
> my opinion. Especially if I get to run around and kill evil demons.
> Big difference between killing evil demons that have taken over the
> Earth, and raping an 8 year old, don't you think?
Two points here - First, I remember that the original poster was
objecting to the QUAKE preview which involved one player planning to
sacrafice another player's head to a demon. Or maybe I'm wrong. But
I'm pretty sure it was more than just that number or killing demons.
Second, when QUAKE comes out, you will find my merrily sacraficing
my fellows left and right for those brownie points. And my fellows are
going to be trying to do the exact same thing to me. (Maybe I should
find a different crowd to hang around with, eh? :-)
And I think, as you do too, that any game as I described above is
just way too disgusting/distasteful/disturbing/sick/totally against my
personal code of morality/etc.
Now, keep in mind why you dislike commiting rape in a game.
I'm just suggesting that other people object to human sacrafice for
very similar reasons.
I could be totally wrong, though, not being one of those people.
Chan Hoong Keong
In article <QqYSkCaW...@jax.jaxnet.com> da...@jax.jaxnet.com writes:
> I took this line of reasoning with earlier releases of Doom. Although
> the satanic images bothered me, I kept reminding myself I was fighting against
> the minions of evil. However, since Id has decided to number the current > version
> of their Doom Operarting System v1.666, I will no longer play Doom. I can > handle
> blowing up demons, ect. , but I will not play a game which I perceive as anti-
> Christian.
>
> So, because these historical events were done in the "name" of Christianty
> that somehow makes them represenative of true Christianity? We might as well
> say that the Los Angeles cops convicted of beating Rodney King represent the
> true nature of law enforcement.
Do you truly believe 666 has any real significance to Christian besides
being just a symbol? Did you ever buy a dictionary and tear off that
particular "demonic" page?
--
Email : hkc...@hkchan.pc.my
Paul Martz
> How would you feel if some game let you rape an 8 year old in order
> to gain some bonus points?
You're talking about a simulation of hurting an innocent person? I
would not be interested in such a game.
But just because a game's rev is 1.666 is no reason to not play it, in
my opinion. Especially if I get to run around and kill evil demons.
Big difference between killing evil demons that have taken over the
Earth, and raping an 8 year old, don't you think?
Scott Le Grand
Here we go, equal time for opposing viewpoints wads:
"Limbot" Doom
Former humans: Ted Kennedy sprite
Former Sergeant: James Carvell sprite
Imps: George Mitchell sprite
Demons: "Hippy potsmoker" sprite
Spectres: "Feminazi" sprite
Lost Souls: Jimmy Carter sprite
CacoDaemon: Giant floating Howard Stern head
Cyberdemon: JFK sprite
Spiderdemon: Demonic Clinton sprite
"Liberal" Doom
Former humans: Newt Gingrich sprite
Former sergeant: Mary Matalin(sp?) sprite
Imps: Bob Dole sprite
Demons: Dark suit/dark glasses dude sprite
Spectres: KKK/Nazi looking dude sprite
Lost Souls: George Bush sprite
CacoDaemon: Giant floating Rush Limbaugh sprite
Cyberdemon: Richard Nixon sprite
Spiderdemon: 666 Ronald Wilson Reagan sprite
There you go, fair is fair, 'cuz in Doom, just like life, everyone's a target..
Chae Hon An
>If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human bean not Satanism, what
>is it then?
>All other religions that have human life offerings, offer them to
>gods. Only Satanism has offerings to a demon.
>
>Robert Merritt
>-* Disclaimer: Opinions posted here are mine and not of my employer
>-*"There is always death and taxes. However death doesn't get worse every year"
Hmm, I wonder. What do you really know about Satanism? Have you
been watching those TV specials with abused kids recounting how their
siblings were killed and eaten, sacrificed and tortured, blah blah blah?
As far as material evidences go, there has not been a concrete evidence
of those alleged events at all. There _is_ a church of Satan (and
several offshoots) and it is a legit state-recognized religion with no
documented illegal activities (something Catholics can't say for their
religion, with pedo-priests and history of defending and hiding the said
priests). The guideline for the above chruch of Satan (or something like
that... forgot the name) is, I believe, "Do as You Will", meaning do what
you want, not "chop off the heads of your friends and sacrifice them to
Satan". Of course, if you _wanted_ to do that already, then I doubt a
sanction from the Satanmeister himself is the perverbial straw that broke
the camel's back; you're pretty fucked up already.
I'm not defending Satanism. I don't much like defending
religions even though I'm a Catholic myself. Religion should stand
'self-evident', almost necessarily. Otherwise, all you have is cult, the
'flocks' beings led by a dogmatic central personality. So you're judging
a game by popular misconceptions, innuendos, misinformation, and outright
prejudice. Thank God (sincerely!!!) that you're in a position to judge
games and nothing else.
--C h a e
--
E-mail: pala...@p.imap.itd.umich.edu | finger pala...@umich.edu
cha...@engin.umich.edu | for more info. :)
CBR900RR + Yoshimura prep + Arai + full leather = Happy Chae :)
Chae Hon An
Hmm, again with history. I doubt the history of Satanism is only
1000 years old, but if you do have documented evidence of this history
then by all means, I bow to your superior knowledge of the subject
matter. If not, well...
Even by church demonologists (disappearing sects actually),
objects can and have borne evil spirits (not that I believe them, but
they say so). I nominate my aunt's 'bacon-and-bean' as a likely culprit
and request an exorcism (which most church admins refuses to do and
Vatican reworded their policy on exorcism as well).
Chae Hon An
Mark Alan Lang <Elis...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
> To put things in a light that the rest of us non-religious types
>might understand :
>
>to gain some bonus points?
>
>
>
question.
Would you play a game where you have to run a Wilcoxen Signed
Rank test and plot regression points and otherwise do my stats homeworks
for me? Probably not, unless you're really sick.
The game that has you raping an eight-year-old probably won't
enjoy the success of doOM. I don't have problems with people making a
game like that, free expression and all, but would I play it? No, since
I have no interest in raping an 8-year-old, virtually or no. I do like
blowing up things and shooting at demons and stuff. Now, that's cool.
This may be a telling conviction of American popular culture,
where violence is embraced so wholeheartedly across the generations. And
the gamemakers are capitalizing on that, as they should in a freemarket
society. I can predict one thing however. If there is a society where
so many of its inhabitants enjoy playing games where they rape a
8-year-old, it's not the game that is in trouble; it's the society.
Symptoms point to unseen malady.
RICARDO MENDEZ
>> beliefs to MY games.
>
> Why? You don't seem to mind espousing your beliefs.
Usually people don't like to talk about their beliefs, because it starts
silly discussions like this one. But no one like to see their beliefs (or
lack of them) confronted in such a petty thing as a e-mail. When somebody
start messing religious beliefs in a list supposed to be to chat about the
games, strategy, hints, etc; they tend to get flamed.
After all, ain't there a list for religion and the such?
Ricardo
Denis R. Papp
>>>
>>>>If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human being not Satanism, what
>>>>is it then?
Demonism. OR (eg) Bobism if the demon's name is Bob.
Doesn't DOOM give you some deep desire to go and slaughter helpless
little children? It should be banned
I think I'll stick with Cthulhuism, the chants are much more interesting
--
tan...@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
SACRIFICE THE FRIGGIN HEAD AT ALL? Take into account a game like NetHack. If
you are a chaotic character, then human sacrifice is OK. If you are not into
human sacrifice (or killing shopkeepers, stealing, etc.), you can play a lawful
or neutral character, in which case, if you commit human sacrifice (or
stealing, or killing innocents), your god gets pissed. Of course, this is a
polytheistic world, which could piss off many a fundamentalist, but just
because a character can commit human sacrifice, does not mean that you are
forced to, or that it is benificial in every case. Id probably has alignment
built into the system, and good christians can play good characters doing good
things (I hope).
Id, are you listening?
--
Ajaipal S. Tanwar, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
University of Texas at Austin - tan...@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
"They told me I was gullible. I believed them."
-Steven Wright
PDeMaio
>howard stern is dog poop
You give him to much credit.
PDeMaio
Is that a light at the end of the tunnel or just an oncoming train?
PDeMaio
>However, more too the point, as I understand it QUAKE isn't supposed to
>be anything like the real world, or even the DOOM world: unlike DOOM
>it's more of a fantasy world such as you might find in "Betrayal at
>Krondor", "King's Quest", or "Ultima": there are numerous gods,
>apparently demons, spells, etc. So "sacrificing to a demon" doesn't
>mean practicing Satanism.
>Now on the other hand, if that makes a difference to you perhaps you
>should reexamine your conscience WRT DOOM; it seems like splitting hairs
>to me...
>--
I imagine that if quake develops more of a plot than Doom, a difficult task I
know, you will have options as to wether or not you wan't to sacrifice to
demons. However, I figure I probably will once and a while. I figure that if
there really is a good I doubt he so vain as to get mad me for something I do
as trivial as a vidio game as long as I'm a good person in real life. I also
bet god is awesome at doom, he must always be in god mode just naturally.
Paul Smith
%% dp...@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca (Denis R. Papp) writes:
>>>>> Paul Smith <psm...@wellfleet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If "sacrificing to a demon" a fellow human being not Satanism, what
>>>>> is it then?
I didn't say this... this was a response by Mr. Merritt to one of my
posts... let's keep the attributions straight folks :)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith | That's the thing about being a boxer:
<psm...@wellfleet.com> | even when you're at the top of your field,
Wellfleet Communications, Inc. | people still hit you in the head.
Network Management Development | -- Paula Poundstone
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Expressed above are my opinions. Wellfleet takes no responsibility for them.>
Cheesebread Farmland
(David J. Warner) wrote:
> Here's something to ponder:
>
> The Spaniards, good Christians that they were, were so shocked and
> horrified by the human sacrafices of the Aztecs that they killed 'em
> all off.
They were not christians. They were CATHOLICS!
Kolk
Hi,
Does anybody know the level-codes for "the lost vikings"???
I'm stuck at level 12 and can't get any further.
Can someone tell me how to crack this level?
I can't get my men over te sand-streams! They are too wide to
jump over them but there is no other way then jumping...
any help would be nice!
thanx in advance.
--SvdK
ps. please reply via E-mail: v92...@si.hhs.nl
PDeMaio
>From: dco...@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Cheesebread Farmland)
>Subject: Re: (DOOM) it is too much.
>Date: 20 Sep 1994 04:37:34 GMT
I'm going out on a limb here, but I'll bet they were both.
Religeons of all kinds have always been used as excuses for killing stealing
and destroying. It isn't the religeon which is to blame it is the nature of
man. You can sit here and claim doom has gone to far but I watched Apocalypse
Now last night and doom doesn't come close.
Fredric Lonngren
> It isn't the religeon which is to blame it is the nature of
> man. You can sit here and claim doom has gone to far but I watched
>Apocalypse Now last night and doom doesn't come close.
excellent movie btw
--
Fredric Lonngren Ericsson Telecom AB AXE Control Systems
Fredric....@eos.ericsson.se Voice/Fax + 46 8 719 5226/5557
[OS/2 - Why Wait ?]