Another Forum Bites the Dust

[Spalls Hurgenson]

So, Gearbox Software has announced that it's shutting down its user
forums*. So what, you say. If you're like me, you probably didn't even
know Gearbox Software /had/ a user forum. Still, I can't help but feel
it's a loss.

Look, I get the reasoning behind Gearbox's decisions. Forums are
resource-intensive, requiring constant moderation to keep things from
getting out of hand. They can be an embarrassment to the company, a
place where users can point out all the problems in your product...
and they're doing it on your dime. And the unfortunate truth is,
forums appeal to only a small minority of your audience; most of your
customers will never visit them. So why waste resources on such a
money pit? Why not shut them down?

Well, I can think of some reasons, of course. For one, it's an
opportunity to directly communicate with a community of your gamers.
Admittedly, it might not be the largest segment of that community, but
they're likely to be some of your most fervent fans. Yes, they can be
demanding, and yes, they may publicly list your product's flaws, but
they are also a necessary sounding board. With a forum, you can at the
very least give the appearance of listening to your customers and, who
knows, if you actually do more than just SEEM to pay attention you may
get some worthwhile feedback too.

Forums are also provide a useful technical database for other gamers.
Is a customer having a problem? It's quite possible another user has
written about a similar problem and found a solution (alternately,
between the two, you can possibly find some correlation that helps you
solve both customer's issues). It's also a great historical record for
people interested in how your products were made, announced, and
received.

Yeah, there are alternatives - and indeed, Gearbox is shifting its
online presence to them - such as Facebook, Twitter and Instragram,
but these tend to be much more tightly controlled and one-sided, and
overall less informative. You're not going to find a long discussion
about technical issues or game lore on Twitter. Pushing customers to
one-on-one chats with bots and service representatives won't create
communities, or help some other lost gamer since those chats aren't
archived.

And then there's the fact that - by shutting down forums and moving to
Twitter, etc. - it's just another death-knell for long-form
communications. Now, my preferences for long-form communiqués should
be obvious, but odds are - since you're reading this on Usenet
yourself - you probably favor them yourself too.** Increasingly the
Internet is moving to mediums where everything has to be expressed in
short, pithy quotes; if you can't say it in a meme, people don't
listen. But most issues are too complex to be summed up in just a
sentence or two, and by killing forums we not only make it harder for
people to explain their side of things, we take away the very
expectation that you /can/ express yourself that way.

The short of it is that Gearbox is killing forums because financially
it is the smart move to make. I just think that maybe they should
consider that money isn't the only thing that's important.




-------------------
* https://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/t/new-forum-features-thread/85040
** though maybe not quite as LONG as I enjoy.

[Dimensional Traveler]

On 7/23/2022 7:39 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> The short of it is that Gearbox is killing forums because financially
> it is the smart move to make. I just think that maybe they should
> consider that money isn't the only thing that's important.
>

A sentiment that NO MBA who wants to keep their job is EVER going to
entertain for even a nano-second. Even assuming they weren't properly
reprogrammed by the "business school" that awarded them that MBA into
only thinking about the next quarter's earnings report.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 21:03:28 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 7/23/2022 7:39 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:


>> The short of it is that Gearbox is killing forums because financially
>> it is the smart move to make. I just think that maybe they should
>> consider that money isn't the only thing that's important.

>A sentiment that NO MBA who wants to keep their job is EVER going to
>entertain for even a nano-second. Even assuming they weren't properly
>reprogrammed by the "business school" that awarded them that MBA into
>only thinking about the next quarter's earnings report.

There's an unfortunate myth that a company has a legal requirement to
its stockholders to do everything to maximize their investment; that
if a board pursues actions that makes the value of their company go
down they are liable to the owners for the loss and their malfeasance.
And this is not entirely untrue, but that's only because most
corporate charters demand this. It is quite possible for a company to
insist that - while it is a for-profit business - it is just as
interested in creating a sustainable, ecologically-positive
enterprise. If that company than makes a change - perhaps switching to
a more expensive supplier because all the cheaper ones used slave
labor - the loss of value to the company is perfectly legitimate.
Unfortunately, too few charters are written this way, and MBAs are
forced to act in ways that are contrary to the good of the company,
its employees, and focus only on the bottom line. But it doesn't have
to be that way.

This may be (and honestly, needs to) changing in the future. The myth
of infinite growth is, ultimately, more harmful to society than good,
and only benefits those on the very top. It pushes companies to
disregard long-term stability in favor of reckless management that
promotes startling - and unrealistic - stock growth. It results in an
unstable economic base, vastly unbalanced wealth distribution, and
causes ecological harm to the planet. There is an increasing awareness
of this problem and - while I don't expect to see immediate changes -
being aware of the problem is a vital first step.

Recent events have shown us that everything is connected, and a focus
on just the monetary value of the stock, ignoring all other realities,
is not good for the company, the employees, the country, the world and
even - in the long run - the owners themselves. Ultimately, there
/will/ be a change to how businesses are run. Unfortunately, the
window of time in which we can make this change before some sort of
catastrophic collapse - political, economic, societal or ecological -
is narrowing rapidly, so it's something of a race as to whether this
change is made willingly, or forced upon us by events.





side note: once again, my NNTP provider shows me only the responses to
my post, and not my original post itself. Apparently it is sending the
post out (else people couldn't respond to it) but I don't know why it
doesn't want me to see the original. Weird.

[Anssi Saari]

Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> writes:

> So, Gearbox Software has announced that it's shutting down its user
> forums*. So what, you say. If you're like me, you probably didn't even
> know Gearbox Software /had/ a user forum. Still, I can't help but feel
> it's a loss.

Well, I actually did know. I even posted there when I had a problem long
ago, with Borderlands 2. Got a judgment, my writing was deemed too
"emo" which is hard to imagine. No help though.

Then I did an awful slog through hundreds of posts in the BL2 area to
find the solution to my problem.

Moderation there clearly weeded out major horrors like bad language and
such but did nothing about zero content posts. Or endlessly repeated
newbie questions. So to me, the forums were an awful
experience. Probably they're fairly useless to anyone so it makes sense
to close them down.

As a tangent, one long time forum in Finland recently closed down as
well. The managers wrote a goodbye post where they blamed Google for an
algorithm change de-emphasizing forums in search results and the
popularity of Facebook. I don't know if the Google part of it is true
but Facebook certainly seems likely.

As for customer relations via forums, I don't know. There are many
obvious if minor outstanding bugs in Borderlands 3 but they won't
bother. I even reported one, jumped through a bunch of hoops (some were
on fire) and my report was accepted according to them. To this day it's
not fixed. So I'm confused, why even have such a charade about accepting
bug reports?

> Well, I can think of some reasons, of course. For one, it's an
> opportunity to directly communicate with a community of your gamers.
> Admittedly, it might not be the largest segment of that community, but
> they're likely to be some of your most fervent fans. Yes, they can be
> demanding, and yes, they may publicly list your product's flaws, but
> they are also a necessary sounding board. With a forum, you can at the
> very least give the appearance of listening to your customers and, who
> knows, if you actually do more than just SEEM to pay attention you may
> get some worthwhile feedback too.

Maybe they prefer focus groups or something? Pre-vetted people who
aren't too harsh? Or even somewhat intelligent people who can say
express themselves in long-form communications?

[Ross Ridge]

Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Forums are also provide a useful technical database for other gamers.
>Is a customer having a problem? It's quite possible another user has
>written about a similar problem and found a solution (alternately,
>between the two, you can possibly find some correlation that helps you

>solve both customer's issues). [...]

This I think is the big loss of the general trend of away from forums.
Their replacements, Discord, Twitter and Facebook, aren't indexed by
Google or any other search engine. Now if you search for a problem with
a game the only place you're likely to find a solution is on Reddit.

I suspect though it's only a matter of time before things swings back
the other way, and someone figures out how to create a kind of place for
discussion that can be indexed and has sense of permanence, but without
a lot of the problems traditional forums have.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

[JAB]

On 26/07/2022 22:44, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Moderation there clearly weeded out major horrors like bad language and
> such but did nothing about zero content posts. Or endlessly repeated
> newbie questions. So to me, the forums were an awful
> experience. Probably they're fairly useless to anyone so it makes sense
> to close them down.
>

Similar to the WoT one. It's made worse by there's one moderator who
thinks that posters should be able to say any old nonsense but if
someone challenges them on it then they are a 'troublemaker' - you have
to wonder what they think a forum is for. It also doesn't help that the
same moderator has some serious personal biases on show.

Overall though I don't think WG really care about it as offical
interaction is pretty non-existent unless they are trying to sell you
something. They seem far more interested in things like Discord, Twitch
and Facebook.