GUS vs AWE32
giulio faini
Hello,
I need some informations. I have a SBpro, and I'd'
like to buy a new soundcard. Some weeks ago I was really
convinced to buy a gravis Ultrasound, because it sounds
pretty good, and now it is supported in almost every demo.
But now there is the new Sound Blaster AWE-32, which
seems to be better.
So I'd like to ask:
1.- Will GUS be the standard in demo scene also the next
year? or AWE-32 will be the standard pretty soon?
2.- Does AWE-32 play music better than GUS?
3.- Will demos of Assembly '94 support AWE-32?
4.- How many dollars does AWE-32 cost in USA? and GUS?
Thanks in advance,
Giulio
Tomi Aarnio
> 1.- Will GUS be the standard in demo scene also the next
> year? or AWE-32 will be the standard pretty soon?
GUS will be the standard for at least a year, probably more.
> 3.- Will demos of Assembly '94 support AWE-32?
Definitely not. There's no programming information available
for the card.
> 4.- How many dollars does AWE-32 cost in USA? and GUS?
Some $250 for AWE-32 vs. $120 for a 1 meg GUS.
-- devastator/emf
BASSANESE Gregory
: 1.- Will GUS be the standard in demo scene also the next
: year? or AWE-32 will be the standard pretty soon?
Sure, it will ! And it will surely be for much time yet.
: 2.- Does AWE-32 play music better than GUS?
These are very different cards. AWE-32 is amazing in MIDI mode, but GUS
is very simple/straight to program and has a great output quality for
demo musics (e.g.).
: 3.- Will demos of Assembly '94 support AWE-32?
No, they will not at all. No comprehensive documentation is available for
the moment.
: 4.- How many dollars does AWE-32 cost in USA? and GUS?
In France it costs about 500$ !!!! And GUS, if you find one, about 200$ !
Don't know the price in USA (surely cheaper).
SLC you soon,
Rican 911
Straight Line Connection
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Abdel-Hadi Bukres
: Hello,
I haven't read alot about the AWE-32 but it seems it's pretty impressive.
If I had the $$, I would go for the AWE-32. If demos don't support it
now, I am pretty sure they will later on. If you're into demos only,
a GUS might be enough. Creative Labs has a much bigger market and therefore
software houses will support it more than the GUS.
If you don't code demos like most people, then the argument that the GUS
is easier to code is not valid. It's like the pointless fact that I buy
a car because it's easier to repair. If I am not a mechanic, I don't care.
Let's the mechanic fic it. Same thing with the GUS, let the demo coders
code for it.
I am pretty sure that CL with give away their SDK for free if they aren't
already by now. I think some
enthiusiast will code a utility for it to emulate the GUS. Like someone
made the Roland emulator for the GUS. Just wait and see. The price will go
down once it gets popular. The regular SB went down when the pro came out
and when the ASP came out, the pro went down. They can't put the AWE-32
at a price near the SB ASP-16 otherwise they will competing with themselves.
BTW, I own a GUS but not really fanatic about it. Whenever something new
comes out, I know that what I have now will be outdated pretty soon.
--
Abdel-Hadi Bukres
ab...@agora.rain.com
Yoong-chert Foo
: I haven't read alot about the AWE-32 but it seems it's pretty impressive.
: If I had the $$, I would go for the AWE-32. If demos don't support it
: now, I am pretty sure they will later on. If you're into demos only,
: a GUS might be enough. Creative Labs has a much bigger market and therefore
: software houses will support it more than the GUS.
: If you don't code demos like most people, then the argument that the GUS
: is easier to code is not valid. It's like the pointless fact that I buy
: a car because it's easier to repair. If I am not a mechanic, I don't care.
: Let's the mechanic fic it. Same thing with the GUS, let the demo coders
: code for it.
if i buy a car i would care whether it's easy to fix or not, otherwise
the repair bill would come to $$$$$. Same thing with soundcards - you'd
better start caring about how easy it is to code for, because no matter
how 'awesome' a card is, if it's a bitch to code for - heh heh. no support.
: I am pretty sure that CL with give away their SDK for free if they aren't
: already by now. I think some
yeah right. i'll believe that when i see it on a ftp site, like the gus's.
: enthiusiast will code a utility for it to emulate the GUS. Like someone
: made the Roland emulator for the GUS. Just wait and see. The price will go
wrong you are. there will be no useful utility to emulate a gus, because
the point with a gus is that is does the mixing for you. all an emulator
would do is to mix channels and send it out to the sb. maybe it's just
me, but i think it makes more sense for the actual program to mix it and
send it out in the first place... ..also it takes a lot of cpu time to
mix. these programs expecting a gus will also expect not to have to wait
ages for mixing to be done.
: down once it gets popular. The regular SB went down when the pro came out
: and when the ASP came out, the pro went down. They can't put the AWE-32
: at a price near the SB ASP-16 otherwise they will competing with themselves.
: BTW, I own a GUS but not really fanatic about it. Whenever something new
: comes out, I know that what I have now will be outdated pretty soon.
: --
: Abdel-Hadi Bukres
: ab...@agora.rain.com
Yoong-Chert Foo
Black Artist / Heretics
cs32...@mailbox.uq.oz.au
irc: BArtist
Lam RA
Hy, a friend of mine just bought a AWE32 and I got a GUS myself. My advice
is if you have to choose between the two, go for the GUS, it's a lot
cheaper (at least half of the AWE32). Also, The AWE32 will give you the
same amount of work to get it to work as the Gus. If you want to play
a game with General Midi you have to load a TSR and I heared it
rumored that it doesn't work with Dos Extenders. (Just the other day
my friend and I tried to install Mortal Kombat on his computer, but
we could only get it to work with the PC speaker, while with my GUS I
can use SBOS, which will emulate a SB ( This doesn't work this well very often,
just to be fair) and it works fine) If you're only into demos get a GUS, if
you're also into games, still get a GUS, with a cheap SB clone and put
them both in your machine, that works fine for me and it's still a lot
cheaper then that AWEsome expensive AWE32.
Still, if you want a good game card with GM and SB abillities you should go
for the LOGITECH SOUNDMAN WAVE, Which has an OPL4 chip (The AWE32 only has a
OPL3)
Remco Lam
(PS
If you do decide to buy a GUS with a SB try to get the SB-GUS coexistense FAQ
from oine of the Ultrasound ftp-sites)
--
D.C. Green
: giulio faini (fa...@hp1.sm.dsi.unimi.it) wrote:
: I think some
: enthiusiast will code a utility for it to emulate the GUS.
Since the cards are, from what I've read, very very similar, what you say is
very likely possible. In fact, it could probably go in reverse, too - ie,
someone might end up writing an awe32 emulator for the GUS? I, as a GUS
owner, would like to see that. Could anyone with more info on the awe32
verify if this would be at all possible?
- DNA of Superiority Complex
Rody Bagtes
>Since the cards are, from what I've read, very very similar, what you say is
>very likely possible. In fact, it could probably go in reverse, too - ie,
>someone might end up writing an awe32 emulator for the GUS? I, as a GUS
>owner, would like to see that. Could anyone with more info on the awe32
>verify if this would be at all possible?
It'll never happen. The AWE is basically SB16+emu synth. It doesn't have
the 32 channel digital capability of the GUS. This is also why the AWE may
never be used for demos using MOD music. Of course, you could always
use custom patches.
Rody.
sl...@cc.usu.edu
>>verify if this would be at all possible?
>
> It'll never happen. The AWE is basically SB16+emu synth. It doesn't have
> the 32 channel digital capability of the GUS. This is also why the AWE may
Wanna bet?
> never be used for demos using MOD music. Of course, you could always
> use custom patches.
Geez, don't you love messages that contradict themselves?
Joshua Jensen
Michiel Ouwehand
[ Abdel-Hadi Bukres Wrote To All ]
AB> I haven't read alot about the AWE-32 but it seems it's pretty
AB> impressive. If I had the $$, I would go for the AWE-32. If demos
AB> don't support it now, I am pretty sure they will later on.
They WON'T EVER!
AB> If you're into demos only, a GUS might be enough. Creative Labs has
AB> a much bigger market and therefore software houses will support
AB> it more than the GUS. If you don't code demos like most people,
AB> then the argument that the GUS is easier to code is not valid.
AB> It's like the pointless fact that I buy a car because it's easier
AB> to repair. If I am not a mechanic, I don't care. Let's the
AB> mechanic fic it. Same thing with the GUS, let the demo
AB> coders code for it.
The problem is that the AWE-32 can NOT do on-board hardware mixing (as the
UltraSound can). This way you will still have to mix everything for the AWE-32.
It HAS got RAM but all it can do is play very huge amount of samples from RAM
and it can do some DSP tricks, but NO mixing. This is what confused a lot of
people.
AB> I am pretty sure that CL with give away their SDK for free if
AB> they aren't already by now. I think some enthiusiast will code a
AB> utility for it to emulate the GUS. Like someone made the Roland
AB> emulator for the GUS. Just wait and see. The price will go down
AB> once it gets popular. The regular SB went down when the pro came
AB> out and when the ASP came out, the pro went down. They can't put
AB> the AWE-32 at a price near the SB ASP-16 otherwise they will
AB> competing with themselves.
You cannot (except when you want to make your computer 50% slower) emulate a GUS
on an AWE-32. That's about the same as emulation the GUS on an SB (same
principe). The ROLAND MT-32 is a standard and can easily be emulated. The GUS is
a complex card and emulation would be senceless, why not just buy a GUS?
AB> BTW, I own a GUS but not really fanatic about it. Whenever
AB> something new comes out, I know that what I have now will be
AB> outdated pretty soon.
The GUS and it's GF1 are STILL the best buy right now, for how long this'll
stay? Don't know..
Michiel.. InterNet: mic...@progsup.tess.nl
sl...@cc.usu.edu
>> UltraSound can). This way you will still have to mix everything for the AWE-32.
>> It HAS got RAM but all it can do is play very huge amount of samples from RAM
>> and it can do some DSP tricks, but NO mixing. This is what confused a lot of
>> people.
That's why it can playback 32 voices, right, even with custom patches? Sorry,
since you CAN use custom patches and you CAN use ROM patches and you CAN use 32
voices, I'd say it has the Ultrasound licked.
Joshua Jensen
Rody Bagtes
>> never be used for demos using MOD music. Of course, you could always
>> use custom patches.
>Geez, don't you love messages that contradict themselves?
THe last time I checked, MOD and MIDI were completely different formats
and used different ways of playback.
As someone here has already stated, AWE cannot do 32 channel digital
mixing like the GUS, so it can't compete MOD music wise. But whenever
CL releases the patch making s/w for it, maybe it may just be worthwhile
for someone to create a demo using custom patches, ala Majic SuperUnknown
for the GUS.
Rody.
Kyle Miller
: That's why it can playback 32 voices, right, even with custom patches? Sorry,
: since you CAN use custom patches and you CAN use ROM patches and you CAN use 32
: voices, I'd say it has the Ultrasound licked.
: Joshua Jensen
You seem to forget that on the 8th day, God created the GUS card. ;-)
For the other fellow:
According to the AWE FAQ, the SDK will be on their FTP site when done.
From what I've read, CL is giving away AWE32 cards to many developers to
ensure support in the future.
Michiel Ouwehand
[ D.C. Green Wrote To All ]
DCG> : I think some
DCG> : enthiusiast will code a utility for it to emulate the GUS.
DCG> Since the cards are, from what I've read, very very similar, what
DCG> you say is very likely possible. In fact, it could probably go
DCG> in reverse, too - ie, someone might end up writing an awe32
DCG> emulator for the GUS? I, as a GUS owner, would like to see that.
DCG> Could anyone with more info on the awe32 verify if this would be
DCG> at all possible?
I have seen the specs and tested the AWE-32. As far as I know it is not possible
for the AWE-32 to emulate a GUS, simply because it can't do on-board harware
mixing, like the GUS can. You could, alternatively, mix it in the computer,
ending up with a great speed loss. You would have to catch the GUS ports,
requiring to re-set the IOPL, Protected mode programs wouldn't like this. Also,
every single OUT instruction (or IN) to/from the GUS would then cause an
exception, making the emulator VERY slow. (inacceptible). I would say it's
nonsense. Why buy an AWE-32 to emulate a GUS, just buy a GUS.
Michiel.. InterNet: mic...@progsup.tess.nl
D.C. Green
: dcg...@flash.LakeheadU.Ca (D.C. Green) writes:
: It'll never happen. The AWE is basically SB16+emu synth. It doesn't have
: the 32 channel digital capability of the GUS. This is also why the AWE may
: never be used for demos using MOD music. Of course, you could always
: use custom patches.
Ok...so the GUS is miles ahead in terms of digital capabilities. Now, if
it sounds better than the awe-32 in MIDI mode (hey, ya never know, it just
might), then that would be incredibly cool... :)
- DNA of SCS
Aaron Grier
<mic...@progsup.tess.nl> wrote:
>I have seen the specs and tested the AWE-32. As far as I know it is not
>possible for the AWE-32 to emulate a GUS, simply because it can't do
>on-board harware mixing, like the GUS can. [stuff deleted]
Just wondering, but where the heck do you get this information? Do you
have creative labs reference sheets or something? If so, do you have
reference numbers for the data sheets? Something creative can fax me?
The Finn / VLA / EGG music disk contributor
tf...@cts.com
Andrew Fort
>>>owner, would like to see that. Could anyone with more info on the awe32
>>>verify if this would be at all possible?
>>
>> It'll never happen. The AWE is basically SB16+emu synth. It doesn't have
>> the 32 channel digital capability of the GUS. This is also why the AWE may
>Wanna bet?
you've been really flogging the AWE lately Josh.. any particular reason?
or just because you think it's a good card?
anyhow..
i think what the issue is - that can you load up samples out of a mod
like you can with the GUS and use the wavetable capability of the AWE, or
would you have to create a specific music format using Emu style patches,
and then have a quasi-MIDI format in the "pattern" data?
cb
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chuck Biscuits / iCE Music Department (chu...@paxnet.com.au) |
| Liquid Metal: +61-7-812-2324 (v.fc, 28k8!) IRC: ChuckB |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Andrew Fort
heh..
and there's going to be just so many composers who will use those default
factory shipped patches, isn't there? (now THAT is a rhetorical question :)
sl...@cc.usu.edu
> or just because you think it's a good card?
I think it's time for people to realize that the GUS is not the end of all
other sound cards. In its time, the Ultrasound was a very good piece of
equipment. But it is now being dwarfed by newer developments, and without the
GF2 chip, the Ultrasound can't compete.
Do I have an AWE32? No. Would I get one? Yeah, after I bought an Ensoniq
Soundscape.
> i think what the issue is - that can you load up samples out of a mod
> like you can with the GUS and use the wavetable capability of the AWE, or
> would you have to create a specific music format using Emu style patches,
> and then have a quasi-MIDI format in the "pattern" data?
Well, since you tell the card to do NoteOn commands, NoteOff, ChannelPressure,
etc, I think it would be a breeze to pull of MOD effects. As near as I can
tell from the SDK, you can use the ROM patches or use the RAM ones you upload.
That being the case, well, what would be the problem then?
Joshua Jensen
sl...@cc.usu.edu
>>since you CAN use custom patches and you CAN use ROM patches and you CAN use 32
>>voices, I'd say it has the Ultrasound licked.
>
> factory shipped patches, isn't there? (now THAT is a rhetorical question :)
It depends on whether we're talking real-world here or demo world. Demo people
can make music all they want, but very rarely will make money off of it. I
prefer to make money.
Even the commercial programming kits for sound out there (like SOS) which
provide for software mixing use MIDI. Odd, eh?
Joshua Jensen
*** and the flame fest BEGINS... ***
(Oh, no, you said "MIDI" in a .demos group. Quick, shoot him before it becomes
widespread!)
Chris van der Merwe
>: the 32 channel digital capability of the GUS. This is also why the AWE may
>: never be used for demos using MOD music. Of course, you could always
>: use custom patches.
>Ok...so the GUS is miles ahead in terms of digital capabilities. Now, if
>it sounds better than the awe-32 in MIDI mode (hey, ya never know, it just
>might), then that would be incredibly cool... :)
I wondered if it is possible to "read" the awe's patches and convert them
for gus and THAT would be incredibly cool... :)
_____ _ _ ____ _ ____
| ___)| |_| || ___)|_| | ___) Chris van der Merwe
| |___ | _ || | | | |___ | s944...@rkw-lan.cs.up.ac.za
|_____)|_| |_||_| |_| (____| XT rulez!
Vladimir Elberg
: : 4.- How many dollars does AWE-32 cost in USA? and GUS?
: In France it costs about 500$ !!!! And GUS, if you find one, about 200$ !
: Don't know the price in USA (surely cheaper).
Yeah, but there is a reason behind this, the AWE-32 is three months old now and
the GUS is two years, plus the AWE has a lot more features, two DSP's to do
stuff like sound effex in hardware. The GUS is not old technology, if it had
decent sb hardware built in, it would be a lowend soundcard winner, but alas,
it doesnt. Comparing the AWE to the GUS is unfair because its all one sided
towards the AWE, if you want to really compare, check out GUS MAX against the
AWE 32, this is better. GUS is a nice soundcard, but its mainly for demos only
and a handfull of games, otherwise I would have bought one, but I have an
AWE-32 and its one of the best investments I have ever made, next to this 14.4k
modem I have... <Grin>
Vladimir Elberg
: : enthiusiast will code a utility for it to emulate the GUS.
: Since the cards are, from what I've read, very very similar, what you say is
: very likely possible. In fact, it could probably go in reverse, too - ie,
: someone might end up writing an awe32 emulator for the GUS? I, as a GUS
: owner, would like to see that. Could anyone with more info on the awe32
: verify if this would be at all possible?
Yes, this is indeed possible. The are very, very, very much alike in a lot of
ways. The only problem with a GUS emulating an AWE, is that the effects
processor, EMU 8000 which does, chorus, reverb, echo, delayed echo, and other
stuff like speech recognition and QSOUND, and hardware compression, would be
dificult in software, the GUS doesnt have all this stuff, but it could be done
in a limiting basis, just on MIDI music and samples and such....
Now the AWE-32 to GUS emulation would be easier, because there isnt much to
emulate, both have the same stuff like RAM 512k that comes with both of them,
loading patches and such, no problem really.... Someone that knows how to
program could do a GUS emulator for the AWE easily enough.
Vladimir Elberg
: Hy, a friend of mine just bought a AWE32 and I got a GUS myself. My advice
: is if you have to choose between the two, go for the GUS, it's a lot
: cheaper (at least half of the AWE32). Also, The AWE32 will give you the
: same amount of work to get it to work as the Gus. If you want to play
: a game with General Midi you have to load a TSR and I heared it
: rumored that it doesn't work with Dos Extenders. (Just the other day
: my friend and I tried to install Mortal Kombat on his computer, but
: we could only get it to work with the PC speaker, while with my GUS I
: can use SBOS, which will emulate a SB ( This doesn't work this well very often,
: just to be fair) and it works fine) If you're only into demos get a GUS, if
: you're also into games, still get a GUS, with a cheap SB clone and put
: them both in your machine, that works fine for me and it's still a lot
: cheaper then that AWEsome expensive AWE32.
: Still, if you want a good game card with GM and SB abillities you should go
: for the LOGITECH SOUNDMAN WAVE, Which has an OPL4 chip (The AWE32 only has a
: OPL3)
: Remco Lam
Both the GUS and AWE have to load TSR programs to get General Midi to work
with OLDER games that do not support AIL drivers or direct native support for
either the AWE or GUS, so this statement is unfair. The GUS has additional
drivers for both Sound Blaster FM sound and Digital sound.
The OPL4 chip is a bunch of crap, it supports OPL3, but includes crappy
wavetable that is not worth buying, get a GUS or a AWE and leave it at that,
OPL4 is nothing but an FM sound chip with wavetable on it as well. Just
because it has a higher number, does not mean its better. The AWE does not
need the OPL4 chip because it uses a REAL WAVETABLE synthesis chip, the EMU
8000. EMU Makes professional musican synthesisors.
Vladimir Elberg
: : Joshua Jensen
The AWE FAQ is out of course and now so is the SDK! The GUS can do hardware
mixing and so can the AWE-32, whoever said it couldnt is a fucking GUS idiot!
You can get the SDK at the creative labs ftp internet site : ftp.creaf.com
or at Washington University here in St. Louis, Missouri : wuarchive.wustl.edu
The filename to look for is called AWEDIP.ZIP. On wuarchive.wustl.edu it
should be in the pub/msdos_uploads/sblaster subdirectories, on the creative
labs site it should be under pub/awe directories I think.
Read the FAQ and the AWEDIP (Developers Information Package).
What the fucking GUS idiots dont realise is that also the AWE-32 has that ASP
which takes 90 percent of the sound work off the processor, these GUS fuckheads
are getting on my nerves, the gus is an inferior card, lets face it! Its
getting as outdated as soundblaster and the Sound Blaster 16 is!
D.C. Green
: I wondered if it is possible to "read" the awe's patches and convert them
Hmmmm, I don't know for sure, but I would say there's probably a way. I
know it's easy enough to dump GUS ram to a file and suck samples out of
THAT... (it's just incredibly annoying)
We'll have to wait and see, I guess... :)
- DNA of SCS
Kevin McCormick
Vladimir Elberg <v...@cec1.wustl.edu> wrote:
> What the fucking GUS idiots dont realise is that also the AWE-32 has that ASP
>which takes 90 percent of the sound work off the processor, these GUS fuckheads
>are getting on my nerves, the gus is an inferior card, lets face it! Its
>getting as outdated as soundblaster and the Sound Blaster 16 is!
Okay, this has gone too far. We were willing to tolerate your rantings
and ravings about the AWE-32, but when you start calling us FUCKING
IDIOTS, not only does it cause any credibility you had to vaporize
instantly, it also gives you a few thousand new enemies. Perhaps if you
actually had any valid points, then it might make your statement just a
little tiny bit less offensive, but when you call us fucking idiots and
then claim that the AWE-32 is so much better because some ASP takes 90%
of the sound work of the processor, when, in fact, the GUS puts
essentially no load on the processor at ALL (just like the AWE-32, I
might add), then the presence or absence of an ASP makes no difference at
all.
You, Vladimir Elberg, are the fuckhead here. Crawl out of
comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos back to your little hole, and leave us alone.
--
Kevin McCormick | "The more we try to control, the
kmc...@access.digex.net | less we are really in control."
IRC: Xenophon | - Robert J. Oppenheimer
This message is costing the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars to send.
Rody Bagtes
>You, Vladimir Elberg, are the fuckhead here. Crawl out of
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos back to your little hole, and leave us alone.
As much as I hate slander and flame fests like these, getting people to
behave properly is more important. I just hope that Vladimir gets a chance
to re-read his posts and see how immature his posts were.
You should have seen his csip.soundcard posts. In my 7 months here
on the net, I've never quite seen such an outburst :) At least Rich H.
never swore.
Rody.
Toby Lawren Ceselski
not only that..but if the GUS is such an inferior card..then why is it
all the programming/demo groups love it so much...OOOOO an ASP chip..
the only reason most people would ever even need the $70 piece of junk
is if they are planning on doing plenty of composing..the dumbest thing
about the AWE32 is you can add something like 28MB or ram to it..now
I don't know about you..but why waste that much freagin money on a
FM chip based piece of shit from Creative Labs...If you look at the
AWE32..notice how it really doesn't compare to GUS's standards? The day
that CL decides to get rid of that damn FM crap and move to wave table
synthesis is the day someone else has made something better...even
CL waveblaster attachment doesn't meet GUS's standards..it only allows
something like 20 or 22 channels..the GUS is 32...the MAX (the new GUS)
is even better..it is the 1st (CL will probably pump out some piece
of shit here soon to compete) sound card on the PC market that plays
back audio at a stepped up rate of 48khz...and believe me you can
hear the difference in that and 44.1khz....
sl...@cc.usu.edu
> all the programming/demo groups love it so much...OOOOO an ASP chip..
Gee, um, because they got it for free?
> FM chip based piece of shit from Creative Labs...If you look at the
> AWE32..notice how it really doesn't compare to GUS's standards? The day
> that CL decides to get rid of that damn FM crap and move to wave table
> synthesis is the day someone else has made something better...even
Then they'd lose their backward compatibility with games. In essence, they'd
be in the same boat as Advanced Gravis.
> CL waveblaster attachment doesn't meet GUS's standards..it only allows
> something like 20 or 22 channels..the GUS is 32...the MAX (the new GUS)
> is even better..it is the 1st (CL will probably pump out some piece
Hmmmm... GUS MAX = pumped up Ultrasound, STILL with 1 meg RAM MAX, a SCSI port,
and the 16-bit sampling capability.... oooooohhhhh!
The AWE32 doesn't use the Waveblaster.
> of shit here soon to compete) sound card on the PC market that plays
> back audio at a stepped up rate of 48khz...and believe me you can
> hear the difference in that and 44.1khz....
Believe me, it's virtually impossible to hear a difference between 44.1khz and
48khz except in dedicated frequency ranges...
Joshua Jensen
Vladimir Elberg
: I wondered if it is possible to "read" the awe's patches and convert them
: for gus and THAT would be incredibly cool... :)
There is a program that takes GUS samples and turns them into WAV or VOC files
that you can use in the AWE-32!
Where is it? Dont know....
Vladimir Elberg
: In article <305nhd$r...@bigfoot.wustl.edu>,
: Vladimir Elberg <v...@cec1.wustl.edu> wrote:
: > What the fucking GUS idiots dont realise is that also the AWE-32 has that ASP
: >which takes 90 percent of the sound work off the processor, these GUS fuckheads
: >are getting on my nerves, the gus is an inferior card, lets face it! Its
: >getting as outdated as soundblaster and the Sound Blaster 16 is!
: Okay, this has gone too far. We were willing to tolerate your rantings
: and ravings about the AWE-32, but when you start calling us FUCKING
: IDIOTS, not only does it cause any credibility you had to vaporize
: instantly, it also gives you a few thousand new enemies. Perhaps if you
: actually had any valid points, then it might make your statement just a
: little tiny bit less offensive, but when you call us fucking idiots and
: then claim that the AWE-32 is so much better because some ASP takes 90%
: of the sound work of the processor, when, in fact, the GUS puts
: essentially no load on the processor at ALL (just like the AWE-32, I
: might add), then the presence or absence of an ASP makes no difference at
: all.
: You, Vladimir Elberg, are the fuckhead here. Crawl out of
: comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos back to your little hole, and leave us alone.
You of course are right, I get tired of reading messages that people are so
happy about GUS they lie about everything else. Its really sad to see someone
get so excited about a soundcard that they will have an orgasm over it, I
wouldnt if I owned a GUS. It gets on my nerves and I did get out of line. I
am tired of hearing GUS is the BEST soundcard in the world, when it does have
plenty of problems. GUS isnt a soundcard is a freaking religion. Sound has
nothing to do with the Gravis Ultrasound, its soundcard worship.
STUDER,ADRIAN
> that you can use in the AWE-32!
with this statement you will win the 'Fool Of The Month'.
just couldn't resist..
Chicken/s!p+ECR
chi...@ezinfo.vmsmail.ethz.ch
Chris van der Merwe
>comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos back to your little hole, and leave us alone.
I second that!
Nichols
>
>Believe me, it's virtually impossible to hear a difference between 44.1khz and
>48khz except in dedicated frequency ranges...
Yeah ! I would think so as the human ear cannot hear above 20kHz ! :)
heheheh just joking. couldn't resist it.
>
>Joshua Jensen
--
# | \ / ~~|~~ /~~~\ ! ! {} ............................ | #
* < \ /\ / /~\ | | |---| /\ {} Pessimism? It'll never work. > *
# | \/ \/ \_/ | \___/ ! ! /~~\ {} ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | #
Yossi Oren
v...@cec1.wustl.edu (Vladimir Elberg) writes:
> The AWE FAQ is out of course and now so is the SDK! The GUS can do hardware
>mixing and so can the AWE-32, whoever said it couldnt is a fucking GUS idiot!
You're a walking bumper sticker factory. 3 so far.
"I am a fucking GUS idiot." Drink my knob.
Yossi.
Yossi Oren
v...@cec1.wustl.edu (Vladimir Elberg) writes:
>Yeah, but there is a reason behind this,
I heard it too. Creative hasn't heard of competition yet, even though anybody
who walks into a store to buy an SB16 comes out with a PAS16. They've also
got the embarassing matter of EMU's licensing fees.
>the AWE-32 is three months old now and
>the GUS is two years, plus the AWE has a lot more features, two DSP's to do
>stuff like sound effex in hardware.
The DSP on the AWE-32 isn't to be proud of. It's the ASP we all know, and CL
is YET to release the programming specs for it. They're waiting for the MS
RMA standard, but that's only projectorware right now. The Advanced Wave
Effects (recognize the acronym?) section has FIXED reverb, chorus and QSound
effects you can't control (and I'm talking depth and delay, not percent
volumes), which are basically good for making you feel you're hearing crappy
samples in a big hall instead of hearing crappy samples in your room. HWOW,
man, like.
>The GUS is not old technology, if it had
>decent sb hardware built in, it would be a lowend soundcard winner, but alas,
>it doesnt.
That's just plain ridiculous. IMean, the GUS is a higher-end soundcard than
the SB16ASP or, if we stop this butt-munching for a while, the Soundscape or
any others. This is because of the good Eye&I patches, the superior GF1 chip
and the amount of expertise we folks have programming it.
>Comparing the AWE to the GUS is unfair because its all one sided
>towards the AWE,
What are you doing? Checking what costs more?
Give me effect mixing. Give me tracker support. Give me a price I can live
with. Give me a free SDK (not that joke on ftp.creaf.com). Give me John
Smith, Paul Malcolm and all of these angels at gravis.com who help us get
something done with the GUS.
>if you want to really compare, check out GUS MAX against the
>AWE 32, this is better.
Why? 16-bit recording? So you've beat the Maui. What does the AWE32's still
crappy SB16 recording have to do with this?
>GUS is a nice soundcard, but its mainly for demos only
>and a handfull of games,
All of the games I have on my HD, all of the demos I know, Windows, 3D
applications, and 500 lines of G-List. You have a lot of FUD, some nice
slideshows and a reverb effect unit you can use to get the same crap with
echos. Man, buy a multi-effect module and you've got it beat.
>Otherwise I would have bought one,
Sure.
>but I have an
>AWE-32 and its one of the best investments I have ever made,
That's ridiculous. Games will support the AWE in either SB16 mode or under
AWEUTIL (want some free RAM? I have 630K plus 60K in free UMBs, sucker)
because it's stupid to waste money for the SDK; musicians have realised
what they've got here (a lot of bull for a lot of bucks) and they're not
gonna replace their Summits or TBMultisounds or whatever; hackers can't buy
them, can't program for them and can't distribute them. All that's left is
you, Vladimir. Only you on the whole of csipd. And the only demos you're
gonna see are the ones you write. Wanna get a nice bundle deal on the Brooklyn
Bridge and this Kalix?
>next to this 14.4k
>modem I have... <Grin>
You should've gotten an Mwave.
Yossi.
PS Has anybody stopped and considered for a moment the amazing similarity
between Molecular Biology and hacking? No, I'm serious. There's 5 Terabase
(I've seen it used) of human assembly language, and nobody knows what it
does. It's time for somebody Scandinavian to take care of this.
sl...@cc.usu.edu
>>48khz except in dedicated frequency ranges...
>
> Yeah ! I would think so as the human ear cannot hear above 20kHz ! :)
> heheheh just joking. couldn't resist it.
Ah, but dogs can! :)
Josh
Black Jack #456 @1
BY: sl859#cc.usu.edu #616 @506
> > FM chip based piece of shit from Creative Labs...If you look at the
> > AWE32..notice how it really doesn't compare to GUS's standards? The day
> > that CL decides to get rid of that damn FM crap and move to wave table
> > synthesis is the day someone else has made something better...even
But what about backwards compatibility? Look what happened to GUS SB
compatibility because they don't have an FM chip.
> > CL waveblaster attachment doesn't meet GUS's standards..it only allows
> > something like 20 or 22 channels..the GUS is 32...the MAX (the new GUS)
> > is even better..it is the 1st (CL will probably pump out some piece
Actually the waveblaster surpasses the GUS's playback standards. It has 32
voices, not "20 or 22 channels" and it's sound quality does not degrade as the
more voices you use like on the GUS. on the GUS you can still play 14 voices
(notes) at once with out degradadtion (at 44.1 khz). but when you get up the
the 32 of the GUS sound quality falls to 19.293 khz.
> > is even better..it is the 1st (CL will probably pump out some piece
> > of shit here soon to compete) sound card on the PC market that plays
> > back audio at a stepped up rate of 48khz...and believe me you can
> > hear the difference in that and 44.1khz....
Actually the GUS max is not the "1st" soundcard out on the market with 48khz
recording, there really was no first. Pro Audio Studio has 48khz sampling and
I think that came out before the GUS max. All sound cards based on the Analog
Devices PSA chipset, support 48khz sampling. Why would you need it anyway?
your ear wouldn't hear the difference.
Finally, Get your facts straight before you start rambling about something
Vladimir Elberg
What is it with you? I know you love GUS, but come on now! You must really
have penis envy about spouting all that crap. I did not buy a GUS, because its
a demo card ONLY point blank! I want something that is compatable with the old
and ready to go with the new. The GUS is ment to be a 100 cheap card that
cannot compete with higher soundcards period! Its a demo card! 100 US dollars
is too high of a price to pay for just demos alone. The GUS is a toy and the
AWE is for games and professional music. The GUS was one of the first better
soundcards, but it is a joke to say it is the best. No CD-rom interface and I
could go on, most people have to buy a soundblaster pro or 16 anyway along with
their GUS to get the sound I get in one soundcard. The AWE-32's price will
come down, but its DSP for wavetable is far more advanced and far more pricey
than that of the GUS. If you want a decent game card, buy a Sound Blaster Pro,
if you want both games and music, buy an AWE-32. I dont need to run drivers
for SB digital and FM, I have it realtime, I dont need two cards to get the
functionality out of one soundcard and I can have samples going up to 28
Megabytes as compared to the 1 Meg of the GUS and GUS MAX. 1 Megabyte? Come
on! Thats not enough to do anything, Professional or otherwise! A few second
sample 8-bit would come close to a Megabyte depending on the sampling
frequency.
You are the reason, I curse at GUS people, always talking and raving about
your card, but when there are other cards out there more popular you have to
attack them, you have nothing to do with your life, you are sad and pathetic.
At least when you post, make sure that your information is correct and not
just biased opinions on what you want to do to your GUS. I bet you will write
a book : How many ways to have sex with your GUS!
Tomi Aarnio
> I did not buy a GUS, because its a demo card ONLY point blank!
What are you doing in this newsgroup as you obviously don't
care about demos? How about going to csips.advocacy instead?
> I dont need two cards to get the functionality out of one soundcard
We're all happy for you. Now please leave.
.
: Yossi Oren (LIO...@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il) wrote:
: What is it with you?
: I did not buy a GUS, because its a demo card ONLY point blank!
Yeah, you're right. All those games I play, and all those midi files I play.
Must have all been mass audio/visual hallucinations.
: I want something that is compatable with the old and ready to go with the
: new.
Yeah, that FM music compatibility is a MUST, isn't it.
: The GUS is ment to be a 100 cheap card that cannot compete with higher
: soundcards period!
: 100 US dollars is too high of a price to pay for just demos alone.
Yeah, you're right. Luckily for me, I have these mass hallucinations.
Luckily, I'm able to hallucinate all the games I want to play. Oh, scratch
that, I have had -one- game not work.
: The GUS was one of the first better soundcards, but it is a joke to say it
: is the best.
It was the best at it's time. Probably not anymore. It's still one of the
best in terms of bang/buck, I think.
Is it a bit of a hassle? sometimes. I might be just lucky, but i think I
just know what I'm doing.
But hey, I paid 2-3 times less, for a good 1-2 years more of entertainment
that makes the SB sound like a rubber duck.
Stupid me.
Frank Wang
fw...@sbcs.sunysb.edu
Jim R. Leonard
>your card, but when there are other cards out there more popular you have to
>attack them, you have nothing to do with your life, you are sad and pathetic.
The way you go on, the same could be said about yourself.
> At least when you post, make sure that your information is correct and not
Okay, how about you do the same? For instance, the TSRs required for
the AWE32 to emulate general MIDI take up 80 K, while the GUS's TSRs
take up 0K.
Besides, how do you expect us to code for that crappy card without
decent source code?
>just biased opinions on what you want to do to your GUS. I bet you will write
>a book : How many ways to have sex with your GUS!
You just did.
--
Jim Leonard
jleo...@falcon.depaul.edu
"You're all insane and trying to steal my magic bag!"
Vladimir Elberg
: Vladimir Elberg (v...@cec1.wustl.edu) wrote:
: > I did not buy a GUS, because its a demo card ONLY point blank!
: What are you doing in this newsgroup as you obviously don't
: care about demos? How about going to csips.advocacy instead?
ah, but I do love demos and thats why I am here, but besides the big guys demos
I cannot run any of the others because they are GUS demos and GUS demos ONLY!
: > I dont need two cards to get the functionality out of one soundcard
sl...@cc.usu.edu
> Tomi Aarnio (t...@utu.fi) wrote:
> : Vladimir Elberg (v...@cec1.wustl.edu) wrote:
>
> : > I did not buy a GUS, because its a demo card ONLY point blank!
>
> : What are you doing in this newsgroup as you obviously don't
> : care about demos? How about going to csips.advocacy instead?
>
beside this is a demos newsgroup. Beside I'm satisfy with
my soundcard.
> ah, but I do love demos and thats why I am here, but besides the big guys demos
> I cannot run any of the others because they are GUS demos and GUS demos ONLY!
Hell, you can't even run most demos on some Turtle Beach soundcards. I would
inquire that demo coders should include soundblaster/pro/16 codes in their demo.
For I cannot afford to buy another card, even GUS. I'm a student, not a freakin
doctor with money.
>
> : > I dont need two cards to get the functionality out of one soundcard
>
> : We're all happy for you. Now please leave.
You can leave too. Me, I'm here for the demos
--
____/\//\/ \
____/\//\//\( )
_____/\/\\/\\ / _~__=0^0--
********************************************************************************
"When you want to feel like a success, surround yourself with losers."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek or Cyberspace."
********************************************************************************
Shawn Kondel
Utah State University
Internet: sl...@cc.usu.edu
sl...@cc.usu.edu
> inquire that demo coders should include soundblaster/pro/16 codes in their demo.
> For I cannot afford to buy another card, even GUS. I'm a student, not a freakin
> doctor with money.
Uh, Didn't Turtle Beach go bankrupt? Oh well, one can wish... ;-)
wReam...
P.S. It is your own fault if you don't have a GUS, I am a student, and I got
one over a year ago... (before I even had my own computer... :)