Where can i get some demos?
Andy Voss
> I was going to write www.oldskool.org had an old faq (and now civax`s
> cfxweb sort-of has one too, so check it out) but oldskool.org, formerly
> maintained by Trixter, is dead ?
I don't think a 5-year old FAQ is going to be very helpful (and when Trixter
wrote it, he was still thinking in 92-93 terms! :). It's sorely in need of
an update. I'd do it, but I'm getting old, and I just don't care enough
about the newsgroup :).
oldskool.org is dormant. Trixter has a busy family life, and spends whatever
free time he has on other projects (so, btw, I wouldn't ask him to redo the
FAQ!). One of them is mobygames.com, a huge PC game database, and the other
is the PC demo DVD, which we will release more info about soon (Hornet ppl
are currently looking over the FAQ).
I'll offer some csipd FAQ authoring help by coming up with basic questions:
What is CSIPD?
What is a demo?
What inspires people to create demos?
What PC hardware is needed for (new) demos?
What are the popular effects/art techniques used in demos?
Where can I download/upload demos?
What are the best PC demos?
What is an intro/diskmag/musicdisk?
What software is needed to code, track, draw gfx?
Where can I get help on C++/DirectX/OpenGL/sound libs/gfx libs/etc?
Are there PC demos for non-Windows platforms (Linux/BeOS/DOS/etc)?
What is a demoparty?
What is the demoscene, and how did it get started?
Where can I get news about demos & the demoscene?
Where can sceners be found on IRC?
What link is there between the demoscene and the game industry?
Where is XXX now? (e.g. Future Crew, Renaissance, Triton)
What is the controversy behind MP3 "ripping" in demos?
As you can see, it's not a small task. If you want to get funny, add "What
is the deal with Otis/Rasmus/Gaffer/etc? :)
-andy (phoenix)
Philipp
I had nothing to do with the demo-scene scince about 3 years and i would
like to get some new releases. But the problem i have is, that i don´t know
how. All the sites/boards i know are down or have only the old stuff. I
would be happy if someone could tell me some great sites.
snqaardbei
"Philipp" <philipp....@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote in message
news:8tufiv$jsi$02$1...@news.t-online.com...
mper...@yahoo.com
this newsgroup desperately needs a faq
www.scene.org
www.ojuice.net
www.demoscene.org
cde.calodox.org
www.doose.dk
www.calodox.org/demoo
squirrel.scene.hu
rantmonkey.bizland.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ignace P. Saenen
mper...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> In article <8tufiv$jsi$02$1...@news.t-online.com>,
> "Philipp" <philipp....@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > I had nothing to do with the demo-scene scince about 3 years and i
> would
> > like to get some new releases. But the problem i have is, that i
> don´t know
> > how. All the sites/boards i know are down or have only the old stuff.
> I
> > would be happy if someone could tell me some great sites.
>
> this newsgroup desperately needs a faq
hey...
I was going to write www.oldskool.org had an old faq (and now civax`s
cfxweb sort-of has one too, so check it out) but oldskool.org, formerly
maintained by Trixter, is dead ?
ciao,
a0a
Malte Clasen
> I'll offer some csipd FAQ authoring help by coming up with basic questions:
Let's discuss about them so that we can agree on ONE answer :) ...
> What is CSIPD?
now that's easy: "comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos"
but we should prove some background info. Wasn't it founded back in 92 by Trixter
and some others?
> What is a demo?
At this point I'd say: A demo is a program that demonstrates the skills of it's
creators regarding coding, composing, drawing, modelling and last but not least
design. Usually demos are made for competitions at parties.
> What inspires people to create demos?
Speaking for me it's nature. Look out of your car and see parallax scrolling
trees, look closer at these trees and see fractal structures, etc.
> What PC hardware is needed for (new) demos?
all you need is usually a good graphics card. Until thursday I was not able to
watch any opengl demos because of my G200 (ok, tesla ran, but that's all), now I
got a geforce2mx and all assembly-releases run on my celeron 366, most of them
even smooth :) For software-rendering I'd recommend 600mhz and up, but it's not
really required. 128mb ram should be ok for now, and any soundcard.
> What are the popular effects/art techniques used in demos?
3d engines, 3d engines, 3d engines, and perhaps some other 3d engines.
> Where can I download/upload demos?
d/l: http://www.ojuice.net or directly at ftp://ftp.scene.org
u/l: ???
> What are the best PC demos?
see ojuice.net
> What is an intro/diskmag/musicdisk?
an intro is a very small demo (nowadays it is, isn't it?)
a diskmag is a magazine that's delivered together with a viewer, usually being
designed only for this diskmag and extended by a music player and such.
a musicdisk is an album including a player, the intention is similar to that of a
diskmag. (btw, did I already mention that my wildmag engine has even some music
disk features? ;)
> What software is needed to code, track, draw gfx?
code: compiler (cygwin b20, msvc++) combined with editor (emacs)
track: just link to http://www.maz-sound.com
draw: photoshop??? or gimp
> Where can I get help on C++/DirectX/OpenGL/sound libs/gfx libs/etc?
that's a good question... I'd say links to red and blue book would be usable.
> What is a demoparty?
Something like indoor woodstock combined with olympia and computers?
> What is the demoscene, and how did it get started?
Does oldskool.org contain information about this?
> Where can I get news about demos & the demoscene?
> Where can sceners be found on IRC?
ircnet: #coders, #pixel, #trax, #amigascne
> What link is there between the demoscene and the game industry?
Some people switch from making demos to making games, see starbreeze or remedy,
but I don't think there's a closer connection nowadays, since most games are
quite advanced compared to demos. But perhaps some party winners where contacted?
> What is the controversy behind MP3 "ripping" in demos?
I don't have the courage to propose an answer here... ;)
c u,
Malte
--
[malte....@gmx.de|the update^copro|http://www.copro.org/malte/]
Filipe Cruz
tell people some urls and let them find out by themselfs.
its more fun for them and less work for us.
message of the day: "dont do FAQs"
ps
Filipe Cruz
is obviously not a good thing.
let ppl find out for themselfs i say.
ps
> > What is a demo?
>
> At this point I'd say: A demo is a program that demonstrates the skills of it's
> creators regarding coding, composing, drawing, modelling and last but not least
> design. Usually demos are made for competitions at parties.
usually demos are made for _fun_ (i hope)
it sure as hell is fun to win big parties aswell isnt it?
>
> > What inspires people to create demos?
>
> Speaking for me it's nature. Look out of your car and see parallax scrolling
> trees, look closer at these trees and see fractal structures, etc.
see, biased answer, no good for FAQ's, the guy reading will think every
demoscener thinks like that which i very much doubt.
> > What are the popular effects/art techniques used in demos?
>
> 3d engines, 3d engines, 3d engines, and perhaps some other 3d engines.
plasmas, lots of. pseudo-design. nice pics having nothing to do with the
rest of the demo also get shown for 10 seconds on most demos. (or maybe
thats only on polish and french ones..)
lots of girl pics, the nerds like the girl pics alot. the more
dimensions they come in, the better, if you make a demo with girl pics,
3d girl models and girl vocals you will win any democompo with public
voting.
>
> > Where can I download/upload demos?
>
> d/l: http://www.ojuice.net or directly at ftp://ftp.scene.org
> u/l: ???
calodox.org/demoo, pouet.net are the best for finding new stuff in my
book. you should check diskmag and chartsmag for the charts to find
other stuff aswell.
> > What are the best PC demos?
>
> see ojuice.net
check ojuice.net? what for? for the heavily corrupted by lots of french
ppl charts? you need to FIND the best demos, thats what gives kick out
of things, finding new awesome prods.
most charts on everywhere are correct though, if a prod is in a chart it
should be worth checking.
> > What is an intro/diskmag/musicdisk?
intro, demo in 64k's.
diskmag, old demoscene news media.
musicdisk, pack of songs sometimes with interface.
> > What is a demoparty?
>
> Something like indoor woodstock combined with olympia and computers?
demoscener meetings. (normally also attended by some outsiders)
> > What is the demoscene, and how did it get started?
>
> Does oldskool.org contain information about this?
cracks needed intros, intros needed artists, artists had fun making
demos, making demos kept on going. no, we are not related to crack
groups.
> > Where can I get news about demos & the demoscene?
>
> http://www.ojuice.net...
there is more then just ojuice out there.
demoscene.org, no-error, gfxzone, scene.org/incoming even..
> > Where can sceners be found on IRC?
>
> ircnet: #coders, #pixel, #trax, #amigascne
hmm.. we should start populating scenenet more.
> > What is the controversy behind MP3 "ripping" in demos?
>
> I don't have the courage to propose an answer here... ;)
ripping is bad. better make your own stuff then rip others.
<insert endless threads about the subject on csipd here>
thats about it. you could still do a demo with scanned pics and
commercial music that some people wouldnt complain. most demosceners
would say its crap. but then again, most demosceners say most demos are
crap anyways dont they? make your own and have fun doing it. then make
better and keep having fun doing it. when everybody you know has said
you have made something nice then you can stop doing it. (that's
impossible btw ;) )
ps
*
> draw: photoshop??? or gimp
but i thought only faggots use the gimp??
y'r pal -kK
*
> lots of girl pics, the nerds like the girl pics alot. the more
> dimensions they come in, the better, if you make a demo with girl pics,
> 3d girl models and girl vocals you will win any democompo with public
> voting.
and if your girl pics and models are topless..
and like big breasts, and the more breasts better, like 8 or 9 breasts very good..
and like they are wet like it had just rained..
and like..
and like it is cold in the picture..
and the vocals are all breathy like engima or something..
and..
and the girls in pics all have angel wings and pouty lips..
and..
and like it's all very gay and uninspired..
well we're talking sweeps then..
y'r pal -kK
(all topless girls with big wet breasts, angel wings and pouty lips copyright 2000
superK - you all better recognize..)
Kuno Woudt
> As you can see, it's not a small task.
I wouldn't mind maintaining it, however I don't feel like writing the
whole thing myself - so i'd try answering most faqs with posts from
the newsgroup (which IMO is a good thing, as it gives newcomers some
feel for the group).
Anyway,.. i`m currently busy with some other obligations, but if no one
else is interested in doing this i'll start in a week or two.
-- warp.
--
bliss - 100% GNU Demos - www.demonic.demon.nl
#demoscene on openprojects irc (http://openprojects.nu)
Malte Clasen
> Malte Clasen wrote:
>
> > draw: photoshop??? or gimp
> but i thought only faggots use the gimp??
I think if we'd recommend only photoshop, some few newbie artists might
feel sick because they don't have the 1000 euro to buy it...
sagacity
copyright 2000
> superK - you all better recognize..)
Um, I think that's already been done in Astral Blur...
--
sag
Stefan Hållén
pay 1000 euro's to get their hands on photoshop
Malte Clasen <malte....@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:3A0539EC...@gmx.de...
Filipe Cruz
ps
* wrote:
>
> Filipe Cruz wrote:
>
> > lots of girl pics, the nerds like the girl pics alot. the more
> > dimensions they come in, the better, if you make a demo with girl pics,
> > 3d girl models and girl vocals you will win any democompo with public
> > voting.
>
> and if your girl pics and models are topless..
>
> and like big breasts, and the more breasts better, like 8 or 9 breasts very good..
>
> and like they are wet like it had just rained..
>
> and like..
>
> and like it is cold in the picture..
>
> and the vocals are all breathy like engima or something..
>
> and..
>
> and the girls in pics all have angel wings and pouty lips..
>
> and..
>
> and like it's all very gay and uninspired..
>
> well we're talking sweeps then..
>
> y'r pal -kK
>
snotrag
"Stefan Hållén" <s...@mindless.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8u424p$rla$1...@acid2.lion-access.net...
*
> yeah, when is danny coming back to the scene? :D
>
> > (all topless girls with big wet breasts, angel wings and pouty lips copyright 2000
> > superK - you all better recognize..)
the sad thing is i was directly thinking of Danny when i wrote this.. in particular to
his work in the Amiga scene years ago..
well, it's comforting to know some things haven't changed in the scene..
y'r pal -kK
*
> * wrote:
>
> > Malte Clasen wrote:
> >
> > > draw: photoshop??? or gimp
> > but i thought only faggots use the gimp??
>
> I think if we'd recommend only photoshop, some few newbie artists might
> feel sick because they don't have the 1000 euro to buy it..
sick or gay..
does anyone use Painter anyway??
y'r pal -kK
ritz
> > > What is a demo?
> >
> > At this point I'd say: A demo is a program that demonstrates the skills of it's
> > creators regarding coding, composing, drawing, modelling and last but not least
> > design. Usually demos are made for competitions at parties.
>
> usually demos are made for _fun_ (i hope)
> it sure as hell is fun to win big parties aswell isnt it?
>
so: sometimes for fun, sometimes for the competition, sometimes for the
money, most of the time for all of the above.
> > > What inspires people to create demos?
> >
> > Speaking for me it's nature. Look out of your car and see parallax scrolling
> > trees, look closer at these trees and see fractal structures, etc.
>
> see, biased answer, no good for FAQ's, the guy reading will think every
> demoscener thinks like that which i very much doubt.
>
maybe we should have a poll [or a thread] about this, because it's
very personal.
i like to code demos (well, intros) because i like creating things
that i can see and hear immediately. it is just the same reason why i
like
to draw cartoons, why i like to write texts [and why i would probably
like to make music if i had the proper tools and the skills :) ]
so for me, it is because i like creating art.
> > > What are the popular effects/art techniques used in demos?
> >
> > 3d engines, 3d engines, 3d engines, and perhaps some other 3d engines.
>
> plasmas, lots of. pseudo-design. nice pics having nothing to do with the
> rest of the demo also get shown for 10 seconds on most demos. (or maybe
> thats only on polish and french ones..)
> lots of girl pics, the nerds like the girl pics alot. the more
> dimensions they come in, the better, if you make a demo with girl pics,
> 3d girl models and girl vocals you will win any democompo with public
> voting.
.. and 3d engines.
there still appear a lot of girl pics in demos, but not as much as
they used to, and do people still vote for that?
> > > What is an intro/diskmag/musicdisk?
>
> intro, demo in 64k's.
GRRR don't forget 4k's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > What is a demoparty?
> > Something like indoor woodstock combined with olympia and computers?
> demoscener meetings. (normally also attended by some outsiders)
yeah, those outsiders look at sceners as if they were zoo-animals,
and they usually have little children with them saying "look mommy,
that man is sleeping on his keyboard!" [which was pretty much the
case at biz2k :) ]
> > > What is the demoscene, and how did it get started?
> >
> > Does oldskool.org contain information about this?
>
> cracks needed intros, intros needed artists, artists had fun making
> demos, making demos kept on going. no, we are not related to crack
> groups.
not per definition anyway. i made a cracktro last year..
> > > Where can sceners be found on IRC?
> >
> > ircnet: #coders, #pixel, #trax, #amigascne
>
> hmm.. we should start populating scenenet more.
what's scenenet?
--
ritz[ND-44-ZH]
ritz(at)cyberjunkie . com
mhm27x26
Ignace P. Saenen
Hi,
Hmm it`s true that FAQ`s for a demoscene are hard to keep updated, but
having an official FAQ makes it easier for newbies and retired sceners
to get information. Of course I hope that this isn`t going to kill the
rate of discussions here, but I`m comfident that it won`t.
I`m working on a preliminary FAQ. I`ll post it for general discussion
soon, when I`ve done most of the standard q & a, so you can flame it,
add to it, correct it or improve it.. and if you don`t like it, don`t
read it :)
ciao,
a0a
Filipe Cruz
still add note that some people think it takes the fun away from finding
out stuff on your own.
ps
Filipe Cruz
> money, most of the time for all of the above.
yes, yes, yes and hmm.. yes.
you find anything wrong in it?
any questions?
> maybe we should have a poll [or a thread] about this, because it's
> very personal.
> i like to code demos (well, intros) because i like creating things
> that i can see and hear immediately. it is just the same reason why i
> like
> to draw cartoons, why i like to write texts [and why i would probably
> like to make music if i had the proper tools and the skills :) ]
> so for me, it is because i like creating art.
thats why i dont like writting faqs, because its too hard to show all
possible points of view properly (if not impossible)
but thumbs up for ppl who do write FAQ's.. some one has to do them
right? how would people learn the basics without much fuss?
its a tricky subject to get proper opinion on. (FAQ's that is)
>
> > > > What are the popular effects/art techniques used in demos?
> > >
> > > 3d engines, 3d engines, 3d engines, and perhaps some other 3d engines.
> >
> > plasmas, lots of. pseudo-design. nice pics having nothing to do with the
> > rest of the demo also get shown for 10 seconds on most demos. (or maybe
> > thats only on polish and french ones..)
> > lots of girl pics, the nerds like the girl pics alot. the more
> > dimensions they come in, the better, if you make a demo with girl pics,
> > 3d girl models and girl vocals you will win any democompo with public
> > voting.
>
> .. and 3d engines.
>
> there still appear a lot of girl pics in demos, but not as much as
> they used to, and do people still vote for that?
sadly yes, and people still do vote for it.
i rather see a good abtract/pseudo-art/message/feeling demo then the
typical effect,girl,effect,3dscene,girl,girl,3dscene,girl demos though.
but those more underground productions never get well ranked on parties
do they? :/ i would like to be able to say they get well ranked on
smaller parties but thats a practicaly a lie aswell. hopefully they get
their respect later on by other people saying its cool.
>
> > > > What is an intro/diskmag/musicdisk?
> >
> > intro, demo in 64k's.
>
> GRRR don't forget 4k's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh yeah, for the FAQ a0a and some others might think of organizing..
dont forget to talk about dentros, bdaytros, greetros and wedtros
<advertisement for calodox.org>
(and beertros )
</advertisement for calodox.org>
64ks and 4ks ofcourse ;)
this is also another problem with FAQ's if yo satrt saying too much you
end up feeling like wanting to say everything and that wouldnt be a very
usefull FAQ (it would be usefull but also pretty unreaded atleast..)
> not per definition anyway. i made a cracktro last year..
and then there are those people who have nothing better to do that do
cracktros even if they didnt crack anything lately :)
>
> > > > Where can sceners be found on IRC?
> > >
> > > ircnet: #coders, #pixel, #trax, #amigascne
> >
> > hmm.. we should start populating scenenet more.
>
> what's scenenet?
/server irc.scene.org
go on #trax and ask why are they there instead of on efnet and ircnet.
i think demosceners should populate more scenenet its pretty empty and
its more stable then ircnet/efnet (probably because it has less users
aswell)
ps
Ignace P. Saenen
Hi,
Yep, I`m aware of that, but I don`t think it will have that much impact
to start with, since we`ve done well without it. It`s just supposed to
be there in case you`re totally lost (which is hard imo but you never
know), and to help out on the standard sort of questions: where is..
what is.. how do I.. why is.. etc.. so I`m sure most people won`t need
it. just those "lucky few" :)
ciao,
a0a
ritz
> > maybe we should have a poll [or a thread] about this, because it's
> > very personal.
> > i like to code demos (well, intros) because i like creating things
> > that i can see and hear immediately. it is just the same reason why i
> > like
> > to draw cartoons, why i like to write texts [and why i would probably
> > like to make music if i had the proper tools and the skills :) ]
> > so for me, it is because i like creating art.
>
> thats why i dont like writting faqs, because its too hard to show all
> possible points of view properly (if not impossible)
> but thumbs up for ppl who do write FAQ's.. some one has to do them
> right? how would people learn the basics without much fuss?
> its a tricky subject to get proper opinion on. (FAQ's that is)
>
maybe you should just leave that stuff out, then.
if newbies want to know, they can just post it to csipd, and these
topics always converge to a very nice thread [in my opinion].
so it doesn't really matter that they ask it over and over again,
because there are so much opinions anyway :)
> >
> > .. and 3d engines.
> >
> > there still appear a lot of girl pics in demos, but not as much as
> > they used to, and do people still vote for that?
>
> sadly yes, and people still do vote for it.
> i rather see a good abtract/pseudo-art/message/feeling demo then the
> typical effect,girl,effect,3dscene,girl,girl,3dscene,girl demos though.
the average abstract/feeling demo is usually sooooo fake...
this saddens me very much. people saying "oh let's put in some design,
too!"
not knowing that you can't "put in" design. after which they create
some abstract black&white logo's that look like they have a meaning.
but if you look closely you see they have absolutely no connection at
all
with the rest of the demo or the message or whatever.
i want to encourage people to make ART they feel like making. so if you
think 'abstract demos score' don't make one, because it doesn't work.
if you think 'i love kicking hard fast paced demos' then make THAT.
think
of how you want it before you start coding, but don't create anything
that you don't really stand for. i have seen too much fake message
demos...
be real.
> but those more underground productions never get well ranked on parties
> do they? :/ i would like to be able to say they get well ranked on
> smaller parties but thats a practicaly a lie aswell. hopefully they get
> their respect later on by other people saying its cool.
.. only if they really are cool, or if the coders/designers can fool
those
people to think that they are real :) [and the last one is also an art,
so nothing wrong with that :) ]
> this is also another problem with FAQ's if yo satrt saying too much you
> end up feeling like wanting to say everything and that wouldnt be a very
> usefull FAQ (it would be usefull but also pretty unreaded atleast..)
i think after giving three examples of *tros, cracktros, bbstros,
beertros..
even a newbie can think of what a wedtro or a birthdaytro should be.
> > not per definition anyway. i made a cracktro last year..
> and then there are those people who have nothing better to do that do
> cracktros even if they didnt crack anything lately :)
i made the intro for a cracking group, faith2000. never heard of them
after that. but you can find the intro at erekose's intro page.
i don't crack stuff. not because of morale, but just because i don't
have
the skills and because i rather code gfx/sfx.
> > > > > Where can sceners be found on IRC?
> > > >
> > > > ircnet: #coders, #pixel, #trax, #amigascne
> > >
> > > hmm.. we should start populating scenenet more.
> >
> > what's scenenet?
>
> /server irc.scene.org
> go on #trax and ask why are they there instead of on efnet and ircnet.
> i think demosceners should populate more scenenet its pretty empty and
> its more stable then ircnet/efnet (probably because it has less users
> aswell)
but i can't find the people on #nlcoders, #scene.nl or #coders on
scenenet right? [i'm a total irc sucker :) ]
:: snotrag ::
ircnet, efnet, etc.). it's just a "standalone" irc server (correct me if i'm
wrong)
:: snotrag ::
<commercial>we could host them @neithernor.org</commercial>
"Ignace P. Saenen" <ignace...@ruca.ua.ac.be> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3A07DCBC...@ruca.ua.ac.be...
>
> Hi,
>
> Yep, I`m aware of that, but I don`t think it will have that much impact
> to start with, since we`ve done well without it. It`s just supposed to
> be there in case you`re totally lost (which is hard imo but you never
> know), and to help out on the standard sort of questions: where is..
> what is.. how do I.. why is.. etc.. so I`m sure most people won`t need
> it. just those "lucky few" :)
>
> ciao,
> a0a
>
> Filipe Cruz wrote:
> >
Filipe Cruz
asking those silly basic questions to the damn thing because its hidden
deep somewhere on the net where no one really knows where.
or the people asking for questions think you are arrogant by telling
them an url instead of the answers.
damn this world is full of crap. oh well..
ps
Filipe Cruz
> if newbies want to know, they can just post it to csipd, and these
> topics always converge to a very nice thread [in my opinion].
> so it doesn't really matter that they ask it over and over again,
> because there are so much opinions anyway :)
true. true.
> the average abstract/feeling demo is usually sooooo fake...
> this saddens me very much. people saying "oh let's put in some design,
> too!"
> not knowing that you can't "put in" design. after which they create
> some abstract black&white logo's that look like they have a meaning.
> but if you look closely you see they have absolutely no connection at
> all
> with the rest of the demo or the message or whatever.
> i want to encourage people to make ART they feel like making. so if you
> think 'abstract demos score' don't make one, because it doesn't work.
> if you think 'i love kicking hard fast paced demos' then make THAT.
> think
> of how you want it before you start coding, but don't create anything
> that you don't really stand for. i have seen too much fake message
> demos...
> be real.
so how do you define art?
abstract design can also be art.
te-2rb is art in my eyes.
hplus is art in my eyes.
i can call it abstract/feeling demo and i wont get tired of watching it
again with loudest volume without distortion.
but you also have to realize that some people make demos following
standards because thats how they know best. they wouldnt know how to
make a demo otherwise, so it ends up with the typical
effect,girl,3dscene crap that we all hate but the people at the party
place.
i somewhat like inf demos for example, they are typical
effect,girls,3dscenes but atleast they make it how they know best, and
damn it, those jap girls tmk draws all the time look very very cute :)
point is, it can still be enjoyable experience to watch those stereotype
"under my style" demos. but i dont think they will leave such a strong
marking in demoscene history as other more abstract demos.
> .. only if they really are cool, or if the coders/designers can fool
> those
> people to think that they are real :) [and the last one is also an art,
> so nothing wrong with that :) ]
shitloads of crap replay prods everyone seems to believe are awesome.
only good replay prods: catch22, clinique, inthemix, fall=winter, book,
ape. all rest is CRAP (unless im forgetting about something right now)
why do people think the rest is any good? explain to me! i want to know!
(baloo,whisker and gang. you know i love you, it was just an example)
> but i can't find the people on #nlcoders, #scene.nl or #coders on
> scenenet right? [i'm a total irc sucker :) ]
a general move into scenenet should be planned, like in 2 months time or
so, so that everyone gets to hear about it and starts going into
scenenet already.
ps
Matti T Palosuo
> so how do you define art?
> abstract design can also be art.
> te-2rb is art in my eyes.
> hplus is art in my eyes.
> i can call it abstract/feeling demo and i wont get tired of watching it
> again with loudest volume without distortion.
> but you also have to realize that some people make demos following
> standards because thats how they know best. they wouldnt know how to
> make a demo otherwise, so it ends up with the typical
> effect,girl,3dscene crap that we all hate but the people at the party
> place.
Actually it has been so long for the last "good" 3d&tits demo that it
could be art if someone made it again well. TBL, we want you
back... not!
After all, it's a matter of taste.
> shitloads of crap replay prods everyone seems to believe are awesome.
> only good replay prods: catch22, clinique, inthemix, fall=winter, book,
> ape. all rest is CRAP (unless im forgetting about something right now)
> why do people think the rest is any good? explain to me! i want to know!
> (baloo,whisker and gang. you know i love you, it was just an example)
Again, name me a group that has released only good demos. Of course a huge
respect to those guys who refuse to release anything even average
anymore. Like, last time I spoke with Blitz asking why Halcyon hasn't
released anything for a long time he told they had something ready already
year ago, but since it was not better stuff that Hplus there was no point
in releasing it...
> > but i can't find the people on #nlcoders, #scene.nl or #coders on
> > scenenet right? [i'm a total irc sucker :) ]
> a general move into scenenet should be planned, like in 2 months time or
> so, so that everyone gets to hear about it and starts going into
> scenenet already.
What's so bad about ircnet?
with Love, Matti
.......
.mpal...@cs.helsinki.fi
+358-(0)50-3559776.
.........
Jerker Olofsson
On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Filipe Cruz wrote:
<snap>
>
> > shitloads of crap replay prods everyone seems to believe are awesome.
> > only good replay prods: catch22, clinique, inthemix, fall=winter, book,
> > ape. all rest is CRAP (unless im forgetting about something right now)
> > why do people think the rest is any good? explain to me! i want to know!
> > (baloo,whisker and gang. you know i love you, it was just an example)
>
> Again, name me a group that has released only good demos. Of course a huge
> respect to those guys who refuse to release anything even average
> anymore. Like, last time I spoke with Blitz asking why Halcyon hasn't
> released anything for a long time he told they had something ready already
> year ago, but since it was not better stuff that Hplus there was no point
> in releasing it...
We plan to only release below average demos/intros in the future.
/me started coding demos again after ten months :)
Baloo / Replay
kn
| > a general move into scenenet should be planned, like in 2 months time or
| > scenenet already.
Ś
`
scenenet has nickserv (oh and that funny memoserv...) --Knos
Ignace P. Saenen
Filipe Cruz wrote:
>
> another shitty thing, you get the FAQ done and no one points people
> asking those silly basic questions to the damn thing because its hidden
> deep somewhere on the net where no one really knows where.
> or the people asking for questions think you are arrogant by telling
> them an url instead of the answers.
> damn this world is full of crap. oh well..
:) yeah ain`t that a bitch.. an URL containing all the answers.. damn :)
But you made a good point. I got 2 answers for that. For starters the
FAQ will be listed (I hope) at http://www.faqs.org, which lists allmost
every FAQ for every newsgroup, and second, it`s my intention that it be
posted here each 4 or 6 months, just like on c.g.a.. It will ofcourse be
available on the net too, and I hope some sites will link to it. But
let`s not run ahead of things too much..
ciao,
a0a
Jaanus Kase
>
> > I think if we'd recommend only photoshop, some few newbie artists might
> > feel sick because they don't have the 1000 euro to buy it..
I believe I have Deluxe Paint laying around somewhere at home... :) like
100k in size, the infamous pure 320x300x256 vidmode 13, no Windows or other
irrelevant annoyances.
--
Terminus
Filipe Cruz
orange? erm... sunflower? blasphemy?
i still think that higher number beats quality, there could still be the
chance that some other people like the stuff you dont think yourself is
as good.
then you have mfx to make you think what the hell have they been doing
for the past 2 months when they make yet another completly diferent demo
from their previous ones.
ps
Filipe Cruz
aswell if you can, i think that would enhance the usefullness factor of
any diskmag. (oh dear, editorials saying "and for this issue we have a
newer version of the csipd FAQ, arent you happy?")
ps
"Ignace P. Saenen" wrote:
>
> Filipe Cruz wrote:
> >
Matti T Palosuo
> funny, my first thought was halcyon but.. erm.. lets think.. pulse?
> orange? erm... sunflower? blasphemy?
Out of these Sunflower is the only one that hasn't released anything even
average, but it's a bit unfair to compare it to other groups since it's
formed out of.. well you know. What comes to other groups you named, they
all have dirty past. :)
> i still think that higher number beats quality, there could still be the
> chance that some other people like the stuff you dont think yourself is
> as good.
Might be. And don't forget also all national worshipping and other weird
things. Like in Germany people tend to like some Elitegroup, Farbrauch or
Haujobb prods even if they were worst mankind had seen since other
even worse prods (here I could say 'Alto Knallo' but I don't). It's
really weird.
Now, before all germans come and assasinate me, please don't. It's the
same thing here in Finland and everywhere (I assume) after all.
ritz
> so how do you define art?
i usually don't. but i can come up with some definitions i like
to live by. usually no-one agrees.
to me, art is a one-time thing. art IS the idea.
this does not mean that i don't like to watch a demo twice
or more [au contraire!], but if i see a demo with exactly
the same concept [or any other piece of art with the same concept]
i usually tend to like the one that i saw first best and consider
that as the art. [unless, the second one is from the same artist
and you can see he is exploring a new part of the idea. or from
another artist and you can see that he is exploring an even more
different part of this idea-space within the same concept]
of course this is not really right, because sometimes i see a piece
of art first, while it is not the first displaying the idea, but
then again, art is personal and why shouldn't i consider the order
in which i see pieces of art when deciding how much i appreciate the
work?
for example when i saw picasso's museam in barcelone, there were
at least 10 [large] rooms with each about 30 pictures [ink-etchings]
of obscene naked women drawn in the standard picasso-style [different
view angles in one pic, guess how he used those angles to show *every*
part of a women very clearly and exxagerated] the first ones i
considered
'nice' [i'm not that fond of naked pics, especially not when shown
in such a hardcore porn way as these were :) ] but after about 100
of those i thought 'what a little old dirty man must this picasso been
in his late years.. i guess he just made those pictures so he could look
at nude models every day' [in that period he made about 1 or 2
sketchings
a day].
this is about the same thing i have with all those demos that look
alike.
only the first one is original and therefore beautiful. unless of course
the later ones are significant improvements or different angles or
something.
usually though, i see a lot of style-copies, and because they are just
copying the style, they don't capture the 'feeling' the original artist
wanted to express with that style. and this takes away a lot of the
aliveness, smoothness, honestness, estheticness [is that a word? :)] and
of course the feeling of the production. if i spot this in a demo
[copying]
i usually look a bit closer, but most of the times, the only new stuff
i can discover is one or two nice effects, which is not enough if you
want to give your own expression to a known style [for me].
[especially this last paragraph is very important for me]
nice to see how many text i can type in response to such a short [but
not simple!] question.. :)
> abstract design can also be art.
i never said that it wasn't. i like abstract usually better than
realistic, unless the realistic turns into abstract, too. [like dali,
or for a demo, i like to consider some scenes from
"wonder" ]
> te-2rb is art in my eyes.
don't know that one.
> hplus is art in my eyes.
this one is also not a copy. it uses a modified version of the
flatshaded
design demos, but a very different angle. it doesn't use the smoothness
and
the cleanness of the style, instead it uses the style to create some
kind of self-contained universe, dark and moody, fragile and noisy.
this is totally different from what the styles i recognise in hplus
try to accomplish by using somewhat the same sceme.
> i can call it abstract/feeling demo and i wont get tired of watching it
> again with loudest volume without distortion.
some abstract demos miss the feeling imo. but if they have the feeling
i too can watch it a lot of times.
for me, for the flatshaded design stuff that used to be a trend,
'plastik', 'kkowboy' and 'louis lane' are the originals for me and they
all exploit a slightly different angle.. not that much, but they are
all genuine. although plastik is not that well polished, louis lane is
not that stunning [but very stylish] and kkowboy is really a great
original one, featuring not-seen-before effects [kkowballs and stuff]
> but you also have to realize that some people make demos following
> standards because thats how they know best. they wouldnt know how to
> make a demo otherwise, so it ends up with the typical
> effect,girl,3dscene crap that we all hate but the people at the party
> place.
yup. but it's my right to discriminate demos if I don't think it is
designed well enough. [even if that's the best a group can do, i don't
have to show mercy :) i do show respect, though :P ]
> i somewhat like inf demos for example, they are typical
> effect,girls,3dscenes but atleast they make it how they know best, and
> damn it, those jap girls tmk draws all the time look very very cute :)
don't like it very much i think, but i haven't looked very close
at them either.
> point is, it can still be enjoyable experience to watch those stereotype
> "under my style" demos. but i dont think they will leave such a strong
> marking in demoscene history as other more abstract demos.
exact. i hope you can understand my opinions about art and all that.
i can understand your opinions anyway, although i'm not sure if i agree
*entirely* :)
>
> > .. only if they really are cool, or if the coders/designers can fool
> > those
> > people to think that they are real :) [and the last one is also an art,
> > so nothing wrong with that :) ]
> shitloads of crap replay prods everyone seems to believe are awesome.
> only good replay prods: catch22, clinique, inthemix, fall=winter, book,
> ape. all rest is CRAP (unless im forgetting about something right now)
> why do people think the rest is any good? explain to me! i want to know!
> (baloo,whisker and gang. you know i love you, it was just an example)
i don't know the others except fall eqv winter..
i'll have a look at them.
i like clean very much, but that was because first i thought it was some
kind
of parody on the flatshaded design demos [which i didn't like that much
at that
moment, cause i saw plastik, kkowboy AND louis shortly after eachother]
now i like it still, because it is really an exponent of that style,
which
is a cool angle.
> > but i can't find the people on #nlcoders, #scene.nl or #coders on
> > scenenet right? [i'm a total irc sucker :) ]
>
> a general move into scenenet should be planned, like in 2 months time or
> so, so that everyone gets to hear about it and starts going into
> scenenet already.
>
i have a different plan in mind for myself. a general movement of me
AWAY
from irc. will save me some time. :) [although i would be better of if i
left the newsgroups alone :)]
greets!
ritz
>
> another shitty thing, you get the FAQ done and no one points people
> asking those silly basic questions to the damn thing because its hidden
> deep somewhere on the net where no one really knows where.
> or the people asking for questions think you are arrogant by telling
> them an url instead of the answers.
> damn this world is full of crap. oh well..
i assume that it would be no problem to demand from every 'larger'
scene site to contain a link to the demoscene/csipd faq..
well not really demand, but it would seem logical for stuff like
ojuice, scene.org and all, to include a link.
Felix Bohmann
> Haujobb prods even if they were worst mankind had seen since other
> even worse prods (here I could say 'Alto Knallo' but I don't). It's
> really weird.
farb-rauSCH ... :)
mh i guess there are really people who liked that Nonstop Ibiza shit from
Orange ...
> Now, before all germans come and assasinate me, please don't. It's the
> same thing here in Finland and everywhere (I assume) after all.
maybe ...
fb^farb-rausch
kn
|
¦ Filipe Cruz wrote:
|
¦ > so how do you define art?
|
¦ i usually don't. but i can come up with some definitions i like
| to live by. usually no-one agrees.
yes and you can fill books trying to define art :)
.-
¦ to me, art is a one-time thing. art IS the idea.
| this does not mean that i don't like to watch a demo twice
¦ or more [au contraire!], but if i see a demo with exactly
| the same concept [or any other piece of art with the same concept]
¦ i usually tend to like the one that i saw first best and consider
| that as the art.
`
I agree with your definition of art being the idea, although
i do not really subscribe to the dictatorship of the novelty your
suggesting after. This is a standpoint which was taken by artists just
after the wwII. (modern art) People slightly changed their opinion after that.
I tend to not like this because I fail to see real innovation in the domain
.. it's just about reimplementation, reformulation to me. But i may be just
short-sighted there.
.-
| [unless, the second one is from the same artist
¦ and you can see he is exploring a new part of the idea. or from
| another artist and you can see that he is exploring an even more
¦ different part of this idea-space within the same concept]
`
Why dismiss there the reimplementation of an idea? For example I put
kkowboy and mhc in the same basket. I prefer mhc because it's a finer
reimplementation of the design&&idea&&feeling of kkowboy
.-
| of course this is not really right, because sometimes i see a piece
¦ of art first, while it is not the first displaying the idea, but
| then again, art is personal and why shouldn't i consider the order
¦ in which i see pieces of art when deciding how much i appreciate the
| work?
`
I _always_ consider the order of creation. For example, when I wanted
to discover autechre, I choosed to listen to the albums roughly in the
order of release/creation. It gives a more personal approach.. as you
follow the author[s].
.-
| only the first one is original and therefore beautiful.
`
I fail to see the logical relationship.
I would reword that into
"only the first one is original and therefore interesting" or something
like that.
.-
| unless of course
¦ the later ones are significant improvements or different angles or
| something.
¦
| usually though, i see a lot of style-copies, and because they are just
¦ copying the style, they don't capture the 'feeling' the original artist
| wanted to express with that style. and this takes away a lot of the
¦ aliveness, smoothness, honestness, estheticness [is that a word? :)] and
| of course the feeling of the production. if i spot this in a demo
¦ [copying]
| i usually look a bit closer, but most of the times, the only new stuff
¦ i can discover is one or two nice effects, which is not enough if you
| want to give your own expression to a known style [for me].
`
I don't think the issue is about copying. To me copying is not necessarly
evil, it is just about learning a new vocabulary. If the vocabulary suits
you, and you appropriate yourself that vocabulary, your creation is no less
art or original (in both of its senses)
But what I would dismiss are creations using a vocabulary they do not
understand. (demos using just the look without having the design)
| > hplus is art in my eyes.
¦
| this one is also not a copy. it uses a modified version of the
¦ flatshaded
| design demos, but a very different angle. it doesn't use the smoothness
¦ and
| the cleanness of the style, instead it uses the style to create some
¦ kind of self-contained universe, dark and moody, fragile and noisy.
| this is totally different from what the styles i recognise in hplus
¦ try to accomplish by using somewhat the same sceme.
great analysis :)
<...>
¦
| i have a different plan in mind for myself. a general movement of me
¦ AWAY
| from irc. will save me some time. :) [although i would be better of if i
¦ left the newsgroups alone :)]
yep. it's a good experience ;)
-Knos
ritz
>
> .-
> ¦ to me, art is a one-time thing. art IS the idea.
> | this does not mean that i don't like to watch a demo twice
> ¦ or more [au contraire!], but if i see a demo with exactly
> | the same concept [or any other piece of art with the same concept]
> ¦ i usually tend to like the one that i saw first best and consider
> | that as the art.
> I agree with your definition of art being the idea, although
> i do not really subscribe to the dictatorship of the novelty your
> suggesting after.
it was not really ment as dictatorship, but more to what i tend to
respect more and what less.
> This is a standpoint which was taken by artists just
> after the wwII. (modern art) People slightly changed their opinion after that.
> I tend to not like this because I fail to see real innovation in the domain
> .. it's just about reimplementation, reformulation to me. But i may be just
> short-sighted there.
what is to you the difference between innovation and reimplementation?
if innovation is creating something new, then of course that's always
much
better [provided the idea is good :) ]
reimplementation is also good in my opinion, but only if it's not too
close
to the original idea and showing a new fresh angle.
> .-
> | [unless, the second one is from the same artist
> ¦ and you can see he is exploring a new part of the idea. or from
> | another artist and you can see that he is exploring an even more
> ¦ different part of this idea-space within the same concept]
> `
> Why dismiss there the reimplementation of an idea? For example I put
> kkowboy and mhc in the same basket. I prefer mhc because it's a finer
> reimplementation of the design&&idea&&feeling of kkowboy
yeah, you are right..if it's an improvement i also consider it as
a new/fresh angle.
but usually i'm a bit afraid that the person who thinks 'i can do this
better'
totally misses the point of the original artist...
but if the 'new guy' implements his own point in the artwork, it is
also ok [maybe even better]
in fact what i'm trying to say, is that people should be original :)
but most ppl already know that, so i'm stating it in a not-so-clear way
:)
[this way i might even convince some guys :) ]
> .-
> | of course this is not really right, because sometimes i see a piece
> ¦ of art first, while it is not the first displaying the idea, but
> | then again, art is personal and why shouldn't i consider the order
> ¦ in which i see pieces of art when deciding how much i appreciate the
> | work?
> `
> I _always_ consider the order of creation. For example, when I wanted
> to discover autechre, I choosed to listen to the albums roughly in the
> order of release/creation. It gives a more personal approach.. as you
> follow the author[s].
you like autechre.. i can see you have taste :)
i usually consider the order of creation after i've heard some different
works from the artist. usually i can guess the order by discriminating
between 'experimental', 'knowing what they do' and 'autopilot' :)
so usually i think the second album is best [this goes for prodigy and
chemical bros :) ]
> .-
> | only the first one is original and therefore beautiful.
> `
> I fail to see the logical relationship.
>
> I would reword that into
> "only the first one is original and therefore interesting" or something
> like that.
yeah, well that's what i mean.. :)
sort of.. i think.
hey i was only TRYING to define my view of art, ok? :)
i don't know me.
> .-
> | unless of course
> ¦ the later ones are significant improvements or different angles or
> | something.
> ¦
> | usually though, i see a lot of style-copies, and because they are just
> ¦ copying the style, they don't capture the 'feeling' the original artist
> | wanted to express with that style. and this takes away a lot of the
> ¦ aliveness, smoothness, honestness, estheticness [is that a word? :)] and
> | of course the feeling of the production. if i spot this in a demo
> ¦ [copying]
> | i usually look a bit closer, but most of the times, the only new stuff
> ¦ i can discover is one or two nice effects, which is not enough if you
> | want to give your own expression to a known style [for me].
> `
> I don't think the issue is about copying. To me copying is not necessarly
> evil, it is just about learning a new vocabulary. If the vocabulary suits
> you, and you appropriate yourself that vocabulary, your creation is no less
> art or original (in both of its senses)
> But what I would dismiss are creations using a vocabulary they do not
> understand. (demos using just the look without having the design)
exactly! that was what i was trying to tell when this discussion
started!
> | > hplus is art in my eyes.
> ¦
> | this one is also not a copy. it uses a modified version of the
> ¦ flatshaded
> | design demos, but a very different angle. it doesn't use the smoothness
> ¦ and
> | the cleanness of the style, instead it uses the style to create some
> ¦ kind of self-contained universe, dark and moody, fragile and noisy.
> | this is totally different from what the styles i recognise in hplus
> ¦ try to accomplish by using somewhat the same sceme.
>
> great analysis :)
yeah i kinda liked it too when i read it back. :)
Alex 'bhead//T-Rex' Mamontoff
Hi there!
> a general move into scenenet should be planned, like in 2 months time or
> so, so that everyone gets to hear about it and starts going into
> scenenet already.
erhm, enlighten me people, what is this scenenet? (I hope I typed it right..
too much 'enene's in one word.. 8))
I spent half of my puny life in EFNet wars, so I don't need a starter's
guide to IRCing.. 8) just the address/port...
bhead =//= www.t-rex.org =//= reviews.t-rex.org =//= bheadhome.narod.ru
.
:: snotrag ::
> scene site to contain a link to the demoscene/csipd faq..
> well not really demand, but it would seem logical for stuff like
> ojuice, scene.org and all, to include a link.
yeah, think so too
Mikko Wilkman
> mh i guess there are really people who liked that Nonstop Ibiza shit from
> Orange ...
HEY! watch your language you felix you. Orange is the best demogroup ever
and no-one makes better demos. live with it.
hoplite / big o
Anton Ragnarsson
Thank god for supertelevision!
-demol
Anton Ragnarsson
>
> Baloo / Replay
>
YES! Jerker is back!
If only I could have the same spirit too :)
-demol
Mikko Wilkman
god was having a malfunction.
h/o
Anton Ragnarsson
ok, thank orange then.. :)
supertelevision rocks!
-demol
Filipe Cruz
ps
Filipe Cruz
>
> don't know that one.
GO WATCH IT _NOW_!!!!
full volume, lights out!
> > hplus is art in my eyes.
>
> this one is also not a copy. it uses a modified version of the
> flatshaded
> design demos, but a very different angle. it doesn't use the smoothness
> and
> the cleanness of the style, instead it uses the style to create some
> kind of self-contained universe, dark and moody, fragile and noisy.
> this is totally different from what the styles i recognise in hplus
> try to accomplish by using somewhat the same sceme.
and we like self-contained universes,d ark and moody, fragile and noisy.
though i still think you are missing the point.
hplus is a lifeform, its not just an intro.
you need to turn your speakers abit higher and hear the smaller clitches
of the sounds to understand it i think. try in a dark room preferably.
damn it, why dont you people watch the damn demos on a dark room with
high volume?
> > i can call it abstract/feeling demo and i wont get tired of watching it
> > again with loudest volume without distortion.
>
> some abstract demos miss the feeling imo. but if they have the feeling
> i too can watch it a lot of times.
> for me, for the flatshaded design stuff that used to be a trend,
> 'plastik', 'kkowboy' and 'louis lane' are the originals for me and they
> all exploit a slightly different angle.. not that much, but they are
> all genuine. although plastik is not that well polished, louis lane is
> not that stunning [but very stylish] and kkowboy is really a great
> original one, featuring not-seen-before effects [kkowballs and stuff]
i think blasphemy style misses alittle on the feeling, they are more
stylish then actually connecting with the viewer, purple does it alot
better though, thats why kkowboy was a great demo i believe.
connected both worlds in an interesting way. moralhardcandy is a
diferent matter, more attention to details and transitions. its very
interesting to follow blasphemy, slyde+byter+md rule.
> yup. but it's my right to discriminate demos if I don't think it is
> designed well enough. [even if that's the best a group can do, i don't
> have to show mercy :) i do show respect, though :P ]
but there are some really cool "amateur" demos out there, the ones you
get the kicks out of watching again. i better not say any names not to
insult anyone :D
> exact. i hope you can understand my opinions about art and all that.
> i can understand your opinions anyway, although i'm not sure if i agree
> *entirely* :)
i just dont agree with your way of watching demos, you arent trying hard
enough to understand those more abstract ones (te-2rb and hplus for
example) its your decision but i really think you should watch them
again =)
> i have a different plan in mind for myself. a general movement of me
> AWAY
> from irc. will save me some time. :) [although i would be better of if i
> left the newsgroups alone :)]
thats a more intelegent plan indeed :) i should try that aswell.
ps
Filipe Cruz
> > | this one is also not a copy. it uses a modified version of the
> > | design demos, but a very different angle. it doesn't use the smoothness
> > | the cleanness of the style, instead it uses the style to create some
> > | this is totally different from what the styles i recognise in hplus
> >
> > great analysis :)
>
> yeah i kinda liked it too when i read it back. :)
>
i still think you missed the point on the intro.
ps
Filipe Cruz
> kkowboy and mhc in the same basket. I prefer mhc because it's a finer
> reimplementation of the design&&idea&&feeling of kkowboy
they are diferent demos.
though mhc still shows abit of the previous blasphemy touch.
but they are diferent.
> .-
> | of course this is not really right, because sometimes i see a piece
> Ś of art first, while it is not the first displaying the idea, but
> | then again, art is personal and why shouldn't i consider the order
> Ś in which i see pieces of art when deciding how much i appreciate the
> | work?
> `
> I _always_ consider the order of creation. For example, when I wanted
> to discover autechre, I choosed to listen to the albums roughly in the
> order of release/creation. It gives a more personal approach.. as you
> follow the author[s].
amber is the best album and chiastic slide is good when you are drunk
enough about autechre already!
np: ep7 - track11
>
> .-
> | only the first one is original and therefore beautiful.
> `
> I fail to see the logical relationship.
>
> I would reword that into
> "only the first one is original and therefore interesting" or something
> like that.
both of you are wrong, i dont think you should waste so much time
thinking about which one is better (the original or the supposed
imitation) better off just enjoying both. but the original idea always
gets more credit because it was original...
ps
Filipe Cruz
Kuno Woudt
> But you made a good point. I got 2 answers for that. For starters the
> FAQ will be listed (I hope) at http://www.faqs.org, which lists allmost
> every FAQ for every newsgroup
IIRC faqs should/can be posted to news.answers or somesuch, which
is archived by ftp://rtfm.mit.edu and faqs.org.
-- warp.
--
bliss - 100% GNU Demos - www.demonic.demon.nl
#demoscene on openprojects irc (http://openprojects.nu)
Kuno Woudt
> > > I think if we'd recommend only photoshop, some few newbie artists might
> > > feel sick because they don't have the 1000 euro to buy it..
> > does anyone use Painter anyway??
>
> I believe I have Deluxe Paint laying around somewhere at home... :) like
> 100k in size, the infamous pure 320x300x256 vidmode 13, no Windows or other
> irrelevant annoyances.
I think he meant Fractal Design Painter.
kn
|
¦ > Why dismiss there the reimplementation of an idea? For example I put
| > kkowboy and mhc in the same basket. I prefer mhc because it's a finer
¦ > reimplementation of the design&&idea&&feeling of kkowboy
|
¦ they are diferent demos.
| though mhc still shows abit of the previous blasphemy touch.
¦ but they are diferent.
|
¦ > .-
¦ > ¦ of art first, while it is not the first displaying the idea, but
| > | then again, art is personal and why shouldn't i consider the order
¦ > ¦ in which i see pieces of art when deciding how much i appreciate the
| > | work?
| > I _always_ consider the order of creation. For example, when I wanted
¦ > to discover autechre, I choosed to listen to the albums roughly in the
| > order of release/creation. It gives a more personal approach.. as you
¦ > follow the author[s].
|
¦ amber is the best album and chiastic slide is good when you are drunk
| enough about autechre already!
¦
| np: ep7 - track11
`
something i like about autechre is that the quality of their albums is
always good. I don't have any preference really. (tho, if you torture me i
would probably vote for ep7)
| >
¦ > .-
| > | only the first one is original and therefore beautiful.
| > I fail to see the logical relationship.
¦ >
| > I would reword that into
| > like that.
¦
| both of you are wrong, i dont think you should waste so much time
you know i am never wrong (ok only once)
¦ thinking about which one is better (the original or the supposed
| imitation) better off just enjoying both. but the original idea always
¦ gets more credit because it was original...
I don't think you understood what i meant. I make a clear distinction between
the enjoyment factor and the artistic interest. -Knos
Filipe Cruz
> always good. I don't have any preference really. (tho, if you torture me i
> would probably vote for ep7)
ep7 was like torture for me first time i heard it, i wasnt much into
idm/electronic music then, but i managed to start enjoying it after some
carefull listens.
> you know i am never wrong (ok only once)
twice, or 3 times since you are wrong now aswell ;)
> I don't think you understood what i meant. I make a clear distinction between
> the enjoyment factor and the artistic interest.
well, why the distinction? its all the same to me. if its good, its
good!
(haha, wanna see you go against that logic knos)
ps
ritz
>
> > > | > hplus is art in my eyes.
> > > | this one is also not a copy. it uses a modified version of the
> > > | design demos, but a very different angle. it doesn't use the smoothness
> > > | the cleanness of the style, instead it uses the style to create some
> > > | this is totally different from what the styles i recognise in hplus
> > >
> > > great analysis :)
> >
> > yeah i kinda liked it too when i read it back. :)
> >
>
i was not talking about the point, i was talking about the way it was
designed.. :)
of course it was something about 'the travelling of the particles'
and 'begin equalling end' and stuff like that, but those
ideas are almost too cheesy to point out. :)
unless you have other ideas? [if you are saying that i missed the point,
why not state what you think of the point immediatly instead of waiting
for me to ask for it, anyway?]
ritz
>
> > > te-2rb is art in my eyes.
> >
> > don't know that one.
>
> full volume, lights out!
>
no time.
> > > hplus is art in my eyes.
> >
> > this one is also not a copy. it uses a modified version of the
> > flatshaded
> > design demos, but a very different angle. it doesn't use the smoothness
> > and
> > the cleanness of the style, instead it uses the style to create some
> > kind of self-contained universe, dark and moody, fragile and noisy.
> > this is totally different from what the styles i recognise in hplus
> > try to accomplish by using somewhat the same sceme.
>
> and we like self-contained universes,d ark and moody, fragile and noisy.
> though i still think you are missing the point.
> hplus is a lifeform, its not just an intro.
lifeform or self-contained universe...
it doesn't really make that much difference if you try to bring it in
such a poetic, artistic, covered-up way really.
but a life-form.. well now that you say it.
maybe you're right!
all those particles make those clicks. like large volumes of spiders or
ants do, too. in the beginning you see something like a bee-hive or
an ant-nest. i also remember that they enstrangle some kind of
flatshaded
sphere/object/thing. so they might actually be capturing some kind
of prey here. and then some weird shit happens and then they are back
at their nest.
i have to watch it again to come up with a better explanation, because
i don't really remember every single thing :)
but so far it looks like ants in an abstract outerdimensional reality
capturing a prey and bringing it back to the nest. [and they seem to
bring it back by using some dimension-squishing method, since they
are not carrying it]
maybe you're right that i missed the point in that other explanation...
i'll definitely have a look at it again today.
i don't suppose that every intro or demo has such a deep-buried theme
in it, right?
> you need to turn your speakers abit higher and hear the smaller clitches
> of the sounds to understand it i think. try in a dark room preferably.
>
> damn it, why dont you people watch the damn demos on a dark room with
> high volume?
>
'cause i got neighbours? :)
'cause i want to watch the demo as soon as possible when i got it,
so no time to turn of the lights? :)
'cause i usually don't think of it?
> > > i can call it abstract/feeling demo and i wont get tired of watching it
> > > again with loudest volume without distortion.
> >
> > some abstract demos miss the feeling imo. but if they have the feeling
> > i too can watch it a lot of times.
> > for me, for the flatshaded design stuff that used to be a trend,
> > 'plastik', 'kkowboy' and 'louis lane' are the originals for me and they
> > all exploit a slightly different angle.. not that much, but they are
> > all genuine. although plastik is not that well polished, louis lane is
> > not that stunning [but very stylish] and kkowboy is really a great
> > original one, featuring not-seen-before effects [kkowballs and stuff]
>
> i think blasphemy style misses alittle on the feeling, they are more
> stylish then actually connecting with the viewer, purple does it alot
> better though, thats why kkowboy was a great demo i believe.
purple, did they make plastik?
plastik has some uggly style-faults.
although if you ignore that, it's better than louis lane IMO.
louis lane OTOH has this really nice text 'the spikes aren't particulary
spikey, they're just here for appearance' in the first effect. which
still
makes me laugh :)
> > exact. i hope you can understand my opinions about art and all that.
> > i can understand your opinions anyway, although i'm not sure if i agree
> > *entirely* :)
>
> i just dont agree with your way of watching demos, you arent trying hard
> enough to understand those more abstract ones (te-2rb and hplus for
> example) its your decision but i really think you should watch them
> again =)
you convinced me of hplus. if what i remember of it is correct.
but the problem with interpreting demos like this is:
i don't want to search for deeper meanings and then find one, and
then come to the conclusion (or worse, NOT come to it) that the
artist didn't intend to show this meaning, but just did it because
it looks nice.
ok. maybe if you ask the authors of hplus what they meant with all that
shit, they give a plausible answer that might be close to mine, but
if you ask most of the vague design demos they just put it in because
it 'looks nice' and not because of some meaning. i spit on that.
i would *like* to try harder to understand the more abstract ones
[and i could easily do it] BUT if you try harder to understand some
demo that is not a more abstract one, but just a cleverly devised FAKE
and then come up with a deeper meaning, you get laughed at [by the
author]
worse yet, you might or might not even know it!!
that is why i think that a demo should first be surfacely beautiful
to look at. so i will see it again and again. and then after seeing it
so many times, something might snap and say 'hey THIS is what he meant!'
hplus didn't have that surface beauty, so i didn't discover it.
thanks for making me think about it, though.
but i'm not sure if there are a lot of demos out there that share
this deepness, i've seen a lot of shit.
greets,
Tijs van Bakel
> Filipe Cruz wrote:
> >
> > > > te-2rb is art in my eyes.
> > >
> > > don't know that one.
> >
> > GO WATCH IT _NOW_!!!!
> > full volume, lights out!
> >
>
> no time.
"i have to post on csipd some more first" :P
--
Tijs van Bakel, <sm...@casema.net>
Egbert Teeselink
life is all about contrasts.
uh
priorities, i mean.
depends on the input or the output.
Filipe Cruz
> > >
> > > don't know that one.
> >
> > GO WATCH IT _NOW_!!!!
> > full volume, lights out!
> >
>
> no time.
make time. dl and watch asap. dont forget the dark room and full volume.
> maybe you're right that i missed the point in that other explanation...
> i'll definitely have a look at it again today.
>
> i don't suppose that every intro or demo has such a deep-buried theme
> in it, right?
maybe they should.
maybe they have.
maybe we make up the theme's ourself.
maybe thats the beauty of it.
> 'cause i got neighbours? :)
use earphones?
> 'cause i want to watch the demo as soon as possible when i got it,
> so no time to turn of the lights? :)
:P
>
> 'cause i usually don't think of it?
hmm.. try re-watching the good demos/intros on dark room full volume =)
and that concludes ps's how to watch demos tutorial for the night,
have a nice day! (why do they always say have a nice day in the end?)
> purple, did they make plastik?
yep
> plastik has some uggly style-faults.
yep, but the song and most of the effects (except the greetings part)
are _amazing_
> although if you ignore that, it's better than louis lane IMO.
i agree 100%, plastik/purple better then louis lane/blasphemy
> louis lane OTOH has this really nice text 'the spikes aren't particulary
> spikey, they're just here for appearance' in the first effect. which
> still
> makes me laugh :)
but that makes them look even more spiky! damn, those blasphemy people
are all full of weird weird ideas =)
> you convinced me of hplus. if what i remember of it is correct.
> but the problem with interpreting demos like this is:
> i don't want to search for deeper meanings and then find one, and
> then come to the conclusion (or worse, NOT come to it) that the
> artist didn't intend to show this meaning, but just did it because
> it looks nice.
hmm.. you have some reason there. but still, if its good you should
watch it again =) _and_ tell the people who made it that it is good.
enjoying something is more important then finding his meaning.
> ok. maybe if you ask the authors of hplus what they meant with all that
> shit, they give a plausible answer that might be close to mine, but
> if you ask most of the vague design demos they just put it in because
> it 'looks nice' and not because of some meaning. i spit on that.
but it does look nice! (is this the so called pseudo-design?)
> i would *like* to try harder to understand the more abstract ones
> [and i could easily do it] BUT if you try harder to understand some
> demo that is not a more abstract one, but just a cleverly devised FAKE
> and then come up with a deeper meaning, you get laughed at [by the
> author]
> worse yet, you might or might not even know it!!
so? who cares what others think about your interpretation of the demo?
each person has its own, you can share thoughts about it with others
(like we are doing now) but i dont usually impose my views on others
(well i do sometimes but its clearly in a joking way, not really
forcing) also i see no reason why would anyone insult me for my views,
most demosceners can argument on why they like/dislike demos rationally
without insulting or humiliating others just to force them to accept
their views.
...
erm.. actually thats abit wrong. some sceners do take discussions too
seriously and insult you to prove their point. but i dont think they are
too proud of it in the end of the day... (atleast i hope not for their
sake)
> that is why i think that a demo should first be surfacely beautiful
> to look at. so i will see it again and again. and then after seeing it
> so many times, something might snap and say 'hey THIS is what he meant!'
did you decifer the lighting engine on bjoer/tpolm yet?
> hplus didn't have that surface beauty, so i didn't discover it.
> thanks for making me think about it, though.
thats why we people who like it, talk even better about it, to try to
make others watch it again and understand why we like it in the first
place.
its all about showing the next person a good demo :)
> but i'm not sure if there are a lot of demos out there that share
> this deepness, i've seen a lot of shit.
most are only girlpics,3dscene,girlpics,3dscene,plasma unfortunatly :/
though angeldust, angeldust2 and sexadelic are only
girlpics,3dscene,plasmas and they have some deeper feeling.. something
hidden.. something more. which we like ofcourse =)
i still wonder whats the point in having that shitty plasma effect right
before astral blur ends.. it doesnt fit the demo in any way, why oh why
did they put it there? what is the secret meaning?
do i need to know the super-dooper-ultra-secret black lotus handshake
for someone to tell me? or was it just there because the music was too
long?
ps
Jim Leonard
Malte Clasen <malte....@gmx.de> wrote:
>Andy Voss wrote:
>
>> I'll offer some csipd FAQ authoring help by coming up with basic questions:
>
>Let's discuss about them so that we can agree on ONE answer :) ...
>
>> What is CSIPD?
>
>now that's easy: "comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos"
>but we should prove some background info. Wasn't it founded back in 92 by Trixter
>and some others?
comp.sys.ibm.pc.demos was created "the old fashioned way": It was
proposed in early 1993 and discussed properly, then voted on. I didn't
start the ball rolling; I believe that honor goes to Dan Wright. I did
vote on it, though (positively, of course ;-). If memory serves, the
newsgroup had its first post as CSIPD in June of 1993.
Back then it was actually news, not the goopy scenespirit I see so much
of nowadays. Yes, I'm old. :-) The biggest piece of news was ASM
'93 speculation, and after that it was "When the hell is Second Reality
going to be released?" (FC delayed the final release until 5 weeks after
the party -- makes you wonder just how unpolished the compo version was)
--
Jim Leonard (Trixter / Hornet)
http://www.mobygames.com
http://www.oldskool.org
Kuno Woudt
> > te-2rb is art in my eyes.
> don't know that one.
come on, do yourself a favor and have a look
(with full volume + dark room :).
> 'plastik', 'kkowboy' and 'louis lane' are the originals for me and they
> all exploit a slightly different angle.. not that much, but they are
> all genuine. although plastik is not that well polished, louis lane is
> not that stunning [but very stylish] and kkowboy is really a great
> original one, featuring not-seen-before effects [kkowballs and stuff]
anyway, I just want to thank you people for having this discussion, it
prompted me to dig up 'plastik', which I had not seen. (and it is a
great demo (well, except for that spysatcam bit :)).
Filipe Cruz
that part.
ps
ritz
>
> ritz <ritz...@me.and.die.cyberjunkie.com> writes:
>
> > > te-2rb is art in my eyes.
> > don't know that one.
> come on, do yourself a favor and have a look
> (with full volume + dark room :).
yeah, yeah. i tried. didn't actually knock me stonecold on the floor
though.
> > 'plastik', 'kkowboy' and 'louis lane' are the originals for me and they
> > all exploit a slightly different angle.. not that much, but they are
> > all genuine. although plastik is not that well polished, louis lane is
> > not that stunning [but very stylish] and kkowboy is really a great
> > original one, featuring not-seen-before effects [kkowballs and stuff]
>
> anyway, I just want to thank you people for having this discussion, it
> prompted me to dig up 'plastik', which I had not seen. (and it is a
> great demo (well, except for that spysatcam bit :)).
yup :)
[and i also don't like the cube with the spotlights coming out of it
because it only has spotlights on the visible sides, which is kinda
weird
and due to perspective correction some of the spotlights appear 'over'
the object while they are in fact behind it. the coder must have seen it
while coding the effect. he must have thought 'no one will notice'.
i don't like being thought of as too stupid too notice ;) ]
but besides that, it's great and i love the music.
ritz
>
> > > > > te-2rb is art in my eyes.
> > > >
> > > > don't know that one.
> > >
> > > GO WATCH IT _NOW_!!!!
> > > full volume, lights out!
> > >
> >
> > no time.
>
ok, i've done it.
this is the kind of demo that annoys me by having all kinds
of ugly glitches and buggy thingies :)
but i liked it very much, although it didn't seem that original
to me. dark, gray design. typografy with strange messages. 3d
thingies :) so tell me, what does it all mean?
> > maybe you're right that i missed the point in that other explanation...
> > i'll definitely have a look at it again today.
> >
> > i don't suppose that every intro or demo has such a deep-buried theme
> > in it, right?
>
> maybe they should.
> maybe they have.
> maybe we make up the theme's ourself.
> maybe thats the beauty of it.
i don't like making up themes myself. not because i don't
like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
didn't mean.
> > 'cause i got neighbours? :)
>
> use earphones?
i did :) the demo said something in some language about earphones,
so i put them on. [maybe it was: warning this demo destroys your
ears if you use earphones :) ]
>
> > 'cause i want to watch the demo as soon as possible when i got it,
> > so no time to turn of the lights? :)
>
> :P
>
> >
> > 'cause i usually don't think of it?
>
> hmm.. try re-watching the good demos/intros on dark room full volume =)
.. or headphones.
> and that concludes ps's how to watch demos tutorial for the night,
> have a nice day! (why do they always say have a nice day in the end?)
give it to adok or something :)
have a nice day!
> > purple, did they make plastik?
>
> yep
>
> > plastik has some uggly style-faults.
>
> yep, but the song and most of the effects (except the greetings part)
> are _amazing_
they say 'no time to fight, system override' right?
especially the intro-effect, with the shattering triangles on
the beat is really cool.
> > louis lane OTOH has this really nice text 'the spikes aren't particulary
> > spikey, they're just here for appearance' in the first effect. which
> > still
> > makes me laugh :)
>
> but that makes them look even more spiky! damn, those blasphemy people
> are all full of weird weird ideas =)
>
and the upside-down spaceshuttlelaunch picture is also really cool.
> > you convinced me of hplus. if what i remember of it is correct.
> > but the problem with interpreting demos like this is:
> > i don't want to search for deeper meanings and then find one, and
> > then come to the conclusion (or worse, NOT come to it) that the
> > artist didn't intend to show this meaning, but just did it because
> > it looks nice.
>
> hmm.. you have some reason there. but still, if its good you should
> watch it again =) _and_ tell the people who made it that it is good.
> enjoying something is more important then finding his meaning.
i watched it again.
i came to the conclusion that it might indeed be about a lifeform.
and all the little particles were inseminating some kind of egg, which
then exploded and folded into itself and created a new lifeform.
[somehow this also reminds me of that theory about universes being
lifeforms which grow new ones at the end of their wormholes]
but now please tell me what you think all those scenes mean.
do you think there is a secret looping commandline option for this
intro? it would be really cool :)
> > ok. maybe if you ask the authors of hplus what they meant with all that
> > shit, they give a plausible answer that might be close to mine, but
> > if you ask most of the vague design demos they just put it in because
> > it 'looks nice' and not because of some meaning. i spit on that.
> but it does look nice! (is this the so called pseudo-design?)
yeah but some also just don't look nice, because they didn't think
of the design, but just decided that 'a vague text here' and 'some
flatshaded
stuff there' and 'a number of cryptical icons there' LOOK NICE.
and that's the "design" demo/intro i don't like. [the ones that aren't
really designed, but more plamped together to make it look like they
are]
> > i would *like* to try harder to understand the more abstract ones
> > [and i could easily do it] BUT if you try harder to understand some
> > demo that is not a more abstract one, but just a cleverly devised FAKE
> > and then come up with a deeper meaning, you get laughed at [by the
> > author]
> > worse yet, you might or might not even know it!!
>
> so? who cares what others think about your interpretation of the demo?
> each person has its own, you can share thoughts about it with others
> (like we are doing now) but i dont usually impose my views on others
> (well i do sometimes but its clearly in a joking way, not really
> forcing) also i see no reason why would anyone insult me for my views,
did i do that? that was not my intention!
> most demosceners can argument on why they like/dislike demos rationally
> without insulting or humiliating others just to force them to accept
> their views.
> ...
> erm.. actually thats abit wrong. some sceners do take discussions too
> seriously and insult you to prove their point.
yeah, but they usually end up killfiling me anyway :P
> but i dont think they are
> too proud of it in the end of the day... (atleast i hope not for their
> sake)
my guess it that they are still angry because "that ignorant brat STILL
doesn't understand MY opinion is right" :)
> > that is why i think that a demo should first be surfacely beautiful
> > to look at. so i will see it again and again. and then after seeing it
> > so many times, something might snap and say 'hey THIS is what he meant!'
>
> did you decifer the lighting engine on bjoer/tpolm yet?
lighting engine? they have a lighting engine?
i thought that intro showed only shadebobby lissajous shapes and warping
cubes and all that shit? [cool shit, that's for sure]
i'll check on it. they have a win32 version now, so i can hear the
sound.
[somehow i lost that version.. but anyway]
> > but i'm not sure if there are a lot of demos out there that share
> > this deepness, i've seen a lot of shit.
>
> most are only girlpics,3dscene,girlpics,3dscene,plasma unfortunatly :/
plasma's are cool. i don't want to hear any bad words about plasma's :)
> though angeldust, angeldust2 and sexadelic are only
> girlpics,3dscene,plasmas and they have some deeper feeling.. something
> hidden.. something more. which we like ofcourse =)
never seen those.
> i still wonder whats the point in having that shitty plasma effect right
> before astral blur ends.. it doesnt fit the demo in any way, why oh why
> did they put it there? what is the secret meaning?
> do i need to know the super-dooper-ultra-secret black lotus handshake
> for someone to tell me? or was it just there because the music was too
> long?
or because one coder felt like "hey i've coded it, so it also has to
be put in" :)
don't have astral blur on my HD atm. luckily i will have cable internet
soon,
so i can d/l all that cool shit.
kn
|
¦ Filipe Cruz wrote:
| >
¦ > > > > > te-2rb is art in my eyes.
| > > > >
¦ > > > > don't know that one.
| > > >
¦ > > > GO WATCH IT _NOW_!!!!
| > > > full volume, lights out!
¦ > > >
| > >
¦ > > no time.
| >
¦ > make time. dl and watch asap. dont forget the dark room and full volume.
|
¦ ok, i've done it.
| this is the kind of demo that annoys me by having all kinds
¦ of ugly glitches and buggy thingies :)
| but i liked it very much, although it didn't seem that original
¦ to me. dark, gray design. typografy with strange messages. 3d
| thingies :) so tell me, what does it all mean?
probably something involving the word 'pot' ;) hmm now that you are discussing
te-2rb i need to watch it again :D
<...>
¦ > and that concludes ps's how to watch demos tutorial for the night,
| > have a nice day! (why do they always say have a nice day in the end?)
¦
| give it to adok or something :)
¦ have a nice day!
I thought adok wasn't interested in demos?
¦ > > purple, did they make plastik?
| >
¦ > yep
| >
¦ > > plastik has some uggly style-faults.
| >
¦ > yep, but the song and most of the effects (except the greetings part)
| > are _amazing_
¦
| they say 'no time to fight, system override' right?
¦ especially the intro-effect, with the shattering triangles on
| the beat is really cool.
check ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/music/artists/mystical/mst-syso.zip
definitely a great tune
<...>
¦ > though angeldust, angeldust2 and sexadelic are only
| > girlpics,3dscene,plasmas and they have some deeper feeling.. something
¦ > hidden.. something more. which we like ofcourse =)
|
¦ never seen those.
byterapers::sexadelic at assembly 98
very smooth demo, the design is 70s inspired, the music is housey, there's
some good synchro there too. It's strange, it's a really beautiful demo, but
it doesn't have a high replay value. perhaps are the effects too conventional
for that kind of demo? (tho all the effects are very nicely done, hmm and this
last "bad tv" effect at the end is nifty :) Probably lacks a climax or some
really new effect somewhere..
It's also a quite slow paced demo, a bit like Codename Chinadoll / katastro.fi
which is also a very interesting demo ...
-Knos
ritz
> | >
> Ś > > > > > te-2rb is art in my eyes.
> | > > > >
> Ś > > > > don't know that one.
> | > > >
> Ś > > > GO WATCH IT _NOW_!!!!
> | > > > full volume, lights out!
> Ś > > >
> | > >
> Ś > > no time.
> | >
> Ś > make time. dl and watch asap. dont forget the dark room and full volume.
> |
> Ś ok, i've done it.
> | this is the kind of demo that annoys me by having all kinds
> Ś of ugly glitches and buggy thingies :)
> I think this is one of the first which did it right tho :)
>
> | but i liked it very much, although it didn't seem that original
> Ś to me. dark, gray design. typografy with strange messages. 3d
> | thingies :) so tell me, what does it all mean?
>
> probably something involving the word 'pot' ;) hmm now that you are discussing
> te-2rb i need to watch it again :D
>
no pot for me in a while :) i need a clear state of mind for the coming
exam weeks :) but after that, i'll post again to see if i can get the
message when i'm stoned :P
> <...>
> Ś > and that concludes ps's how to watch demos tutorial for the night,
> | > have a nice day! (why do they always say have a nice day in the end?)
> Ś
> | give it to adok or something :)
> Ś have a nice day!
>
> I thought adok wasn't interested in demos?
i meant (jokingly) that he could write an article about 'how to watch
demos'-tutorial or something .. :)
> Ś > > purple, did they make plastik?
> | >
> Ś > yep
> | >
> Ś > > plastik has some uggly style-faults.
> | >
> Ś > yep, but the song and most of the effects (except the greetings part)
> | > are _amazing_
> Ś
> | they say 'no time to fight, system override' right?
> Ś especially the intro-effect, with the shattering triangles on
> | the beat is really cool.
>
> check ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/music/artists/mystical/mst-syso.zip
> definitely a great tune
that's the tune that goes with the plastik demo right? [i haven't
downloaded it, because i can't hear it here anyway]
but the .xm file comes along with the demo anyway. [or is it another
versioN?]
> Ś > though angeldust, angeldust2 and sexadelic are only
> | > girlpics,3dscene,plasmas and they have some deeper feeling.. something
> Ś > hidden.. something more. which we like ofcourse =)
> |
> Ś never seen those.
>
> byterapers::sexadelic at assembly 98
> very smooth demo, the design is 70s inspired, the music is housey, there's
> some good synchro there too. It's strange, it's a really beautiful demo, but
> it doesn't have a high replay value. perhaps are the effects too conventional
> for that kind of demo? (tho all the effects are very nicely done, hmm and this
> last "bad tv" effect at the end is nifty :) Probably lacks a climax or some
> really new effect somewhere..
>
> It's also a quite slow paced demo, a bit like Codename Chinadoll / katastro.fi
> which is also a very interesting demo ...
>
ayayay... i gotta download all of those i guess :)
Filipe Cruz
> this is the kind of demo that annoys me by having all kinds
> of ugly glitches and buggy thingies :)
> but i liked it very much, although it didn't seem that original
> to me. dark, gray design. typografy with strange messages. 3d
> thingies :) so tell me, what does it all mean?
it means you need to watch it again, this time with volume higher so you
can actually follow the song.. =)
when you get the chills on the tunnel part (dont ask which one) you will
understand what it means :)
> > maybe they should.
> > maybe they have.
> > maybe we make up the theme's ourself.
> > maybe thats the beauty of it.
>
> i don't like making up themes myself. not because i don't
> like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
> draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
> didn't mean.
why not?
you think artists really think about the message they want to give out?
its more of a spontaneous outlet thing normally you know? you dont
really think about what or why you did things like you did, you just
follow the mood and keep doing it or look at it from the whole and do a
sort of remix/revamp/rewhatever and do it better.
> i did :) the demo said something in some language about earphones,
> so i put them on. [maybe it was: warning this demo destroys your
> ears if you use earphones :) ]
hehehe =)
> > hmm.. try re-watching the good demos/intros on dark room full volume =)
>
> .. or headphones.
full volume is better, though you are right about the neighbours.. :/
sucks to get interrupted half way on a demo.
> > and that concludes ps's how to watch demos tutorial for the night,
> > have a nice day! (why do they always say have a nice day in the end?)
>
> give it to adok or something :)
> have a nice day!
i thought adok already did make articles about csipd =)
atleast i was told he made some lately..
but that wouldnt be a bad diskmag article idea actually, i wish i had
more time to write articles..
> they say 'no time to fight, system override' right?
> especially the intro-effect, with the shattering triangles on
> the beat is really cool.
yeah, purple we love you =)
though this years se00 demo was _crap_
start making demos _BEFORE_ you are at the partyplace
> > hmm.. you have some reason there. but still, if its good you should
> > watch it again =) _and_ tell the people who made it that it is good.
> > enjoying something is more important then finding his meaning.
>
> i watched it again.
> i came to the conclusion that it might indeed be about a lifeform.
> and all the little particles were inseminating some kind of egg, which
> then exploded and folded into itself and created a new lifeform.
> [somehow this also reminds me of that theory about universes being
> lifeforms which grow new ones at the end of their wormholes]
>
> but now please tell me what you think all those scenes mean.
>
> do you think there is a secret looping commandline option for this
> intro? it would be really cool :)
i dont think a loop command exists. the looping isnt needed, its a
story, it starts, it develops and it ends. it just happens that it ends
on same scene as it started. the way they did the intro is really nice.
full of small details and twitches, very synced to the music, thats
always a hit in my book :)
its easier to explain how it goes then what it means.
i rather not try to say what i think the intro means. =)
> > but it does look nice! (is this the so called pseudo-design?)
>
> yeah but some also just don't look nice, because they didn't think
> of the design, but just decided that 'a vague text here' and 'some
> flatshaded
> stuff there' and 'a number of cryptical icons there' LOOK NICE.
> and that's the "design" demo/intro i don't like. [the ones that aren't
> really designed, but more plamped together to make it look like they
> are]
thats why i like abstract stuff and you dont i guess :)
but i like i said, i think anyone who would watch it over and over again
will eventually enjoy it for just looking nice and the effort the makers
have putten into making it.
> > so? who cares what others think about your interpretation of the demo?
> > each person has its own, you can share thoughts about it with others
> > (like we are doing now) but i dont usually impose my views on others
> > (well i do sometimes but its clearly in a joking way, not really
> > forcing) also i see no reason why would anyone insult me for my views,
>
> did i do that? that was not my intention!
no you didnt =) i can accept others opinions well most of the times
(even if they dont agree with me)
> my guess it that they are still angry because "that ignorant brat STILL
> doesn't understand MY opinion is right" :)
"when you cant reason with them try raising the volume"
in calvin & hobbes ;)
> lighting engine? they have a lighting engine?
> i thought that intro showed only shadebobby lissajous shapes and warping
> cubes and all that shit? [cool shit, that's for sure]
> i'll check on it. they have a win32 version now, so i can hear the
> sound.
> [somehow i lost that version.. but anyway]
yep, they have a lighting engine, why do you think it looks so fuzzy?
(for whatever lighting engine definition yours might be dif. then mine)
the win32 version doesnt feel like the other one, the sound is diferent,
it ruins it abit.
> never seen those.
get angeldust and angeldust2/chrome+astroidea adn sexadelic/byterapers
then.
ojuice.net has a search engine, give it some use ;)
> or because one coder felt like "hey i've coded it, so it also has to
> be put in" :)
hehe, i know that feeling :D dont we all do that in the end? damn, so
thats why my demos suck :P
ps
Filipe Cruz
> > It's also a quite slow paced demo, a bit like Codename Chinadoll / katastro.fi
> > which is also a very interesting demo ...
> >
>
> ayayay... i gotta download all of those i guess :)
another typical example of brilliant pseudo-abstract-design demos that
got fucked in the arse by 3d-scene players
kasparov vs codename:chinadoll
though i must admit i liked kasparov aswell. (after months of denial)
still codename:chinadoll deserves more thumbs up for the
originality/design-thing and better soundtrack ofcourse (or wouldnt we
be big brothomstates and crankshaft fans =) )
ps
Kuno Woudt
> ok, i've done it.
> this is the kind of demo that annoys me by having all kinds
> of ugly glitches and buggy thingies :)
it does have some glitches,... they should fix that and release
a win32 version :)
> but i liked it very much, although it didn't seem that original
> to me. dark, gray design.
not that original no, but very well implemented dark, gray design :)
> typografy with strange messages. 3d thingies :)
most of the typography is just letters and numbers. which is a good
thing as lots of other demos use typography to hide the fact that
they've got nothing to say. it seems to me the typography in te-2rb
is just there for it's own sake.
> so tell me, what does it all mean?
most of the text which is actually readable is quite obvious.
for example, somewhere at the start of the demo it says "do not bend"
and "white light" - and that is exactly what is going on at that
moment.
also try to read the small print at the end (right under the (c) tpolm
thingy), it starts with "don't read the small print".
ofcourse there's some more readable text which isn't that obvious, but
to me that doesn't change the fact that this demo blatantly admits not
having a message.
> i don't like making up themes myself. not because i don't
> like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
> draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
> didn't mean.
how can you ever be sure what the artist meant, other than asking
him/her? and even if you can, isn't it more fun to discover what
you see in it before you start asking other ppl what they see in
it?
Kuno Woudt
[plastik]
> [and i also don't like the cube with the spotlights coming out of it
> because it only has spotlights on the visible sides, which is kinda
> weird
> and due to perspective correction some of the spotlights appear 'over'
> the object while they are in fact behind it. the coder must have seen it
> while coding the effect. he must have thought 'no one will notice'.
> i don't like being thought of as too stupid too notice ;) ]
aha, but you have the comfort of proving him wrong, I have to live
with the fact that I really am too stupid to notice.
(and thanks for letting me know... ;).
Valery Carpentier
> > like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
> > draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
> > didn't mean.
> him/her? and even if you can, isn't it more fun to discover what
> you see in it before you start asking other ppl what they see in
> it?
That's getting very philosophical... Is art a media?
Personally I like to make up my own mind rather than spend hours trying to
figure what the artist meant in the first place. I consider art as an
enlightenment.
valery Carpentier.
ritz
> > but i liked it very much, although it didn't seem that original
> > to me. dark, gray design.
:)
> > typografy with strange messages. 3d thingies :)
> most of the typography is just letters and numbers. which is a good
> thing as lots of other demos use typography to hide the fact that
> they've got nothing to say. it seems to me the typography in te-2rb
> is just there for it's own sake.
that's cool.
> for example, somewhere at the start of the demo it says "do not bend"
> and "white light" - and that is exactly what is going on at that
> moment.
> also try to read the small print at the end (right under the (c) tpolm
> thingy), it starts with "don't read the small print".
i'll watch it again and again until i come up with *something* :)
> ofcourse there's some more readable text which isn't that obvious, but
> to me that doesn't change the fact that this demo blatantly admits not
> having a message.
and that's what's cool about it?
> > i don't like making up themes myself. not because i don't
> > like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
> > draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
> > didn't mean.
> how can you ever be sure what the artist meant, other than asking
> him/her? and even if you can, isn't it more fun to discover what
> you see in it before you start asking other ppl what they see in
> it?
i can't be sure. but i CAN convince myself that this 'might very well
be'
what the artist meant. and when i can't find anything that 'might very
well
be' what the artist meant, i don't settle for anything less. [i'd rather
draw no conclusion than a most probably wrong conclusion]
ritz
>
> > ok, i've done it.
> > this is the kind of demo that annoys me by having all kinds
> > of ugly glitches and buggy thingies :)
> > but i liked it very much, although it didn't seem that original
> > to me. dark, gray design. typografy with strange messages. 3d
> > thingies :) so tell me, what does it all mean?
>
> it means you need to watch it again, this time with volume higher so you
> can actually follow the song.. =)
> when you get the chills on the tunnel part (dont ask which one) you will
> understand what it means :)
the tunnelpart and especially the music [and some of the design]
reminded me VERY much of a black&white kkowboy, actually.
but YES master, i will watch it again, but don't blame me if i get
bored. :)
> > > maybe they should.
> > > maybe they have.
> > > maybe we make up the theme's ourself.
> > > maybe thats the beauty of it.
> >
> > i don't like making up themes myself. not because i don't
> > like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
> > draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
> > didn't mean.
>
> why not?
> you think artists really think about the message they want to give out?
you really expect that if an artist doesn't think about the message
they want to give out, that there sneaks a spontaneous message in the
artwork? :)
maybe there will, but i doubt it will have meaning about the artists
thoughts
or relevance or anything.
i try to, when i draw my cartoons. but i've been told that what i think
what my 'style' and 'design' or 'message' is, some other people consider
it just a lubricant to make it more pleasant to the eye. [which it is,
but anyway]
so i doubt that interesting stuff appears with no explicit effort.
> its more of a spontaneous outlet thing normally you know? you dont
> really think about what or why you did things like you did, you just
> follow the mood and keep doing it or look at it from the whole and do a
> sort of remix/revamp/rewhatever and do it better.
either such messages will be very explicit [so you don't have to search]
or you will never find it. unless the artist intentionally put it in, to
be found only for people who 'understand' his way of thinking.
[my opinion, of course]
> > > hmm.. try re-watching the good demos/intros on dark room full volume =)
> >
> > .. or headphones.
>
> full volume is better, though you are right about the neighbours.. :/
> sucks to get interrupted half way on a demo.
>
"no time to fight, system overrriiiii-- BONK!BONK! HEY KEEP IT DOWN WILL
YA!!!"
> > > and that concludes ps's how to watch demos tutorial for the night,
> > > have a nice day! (why do they always say have a nice day in the end?)
> >
> > give it to adok or something :)
> > have a nice day!
>
> i thought adok already did make articles about csipd =)
> atleast i was told he made some lately..
> but that wouldnt be a bad diskmag article idea actually, i wish i had
> more time to write articles..
takes no time, really. grab your nearest text-editor [PICO, emacs or
notepad..
well we've had this discussion, so never mind] and within 30 minutes you
have
an article. then mail it, and there ya go. if you're really fast it
might even
make hugi21 :)
at least this worked for my article in the next hugi about 4k intro
trends.
> i dont think a loop command exists. the looping isnt needed, its a
> story, it starts, it develops and it ends. it just happens that it ends
> on same scene as it started.
i don't think it's the same scene. well it IS according to the code
of course, but i think it is supposed to be a NEW thing [of the same
type]
which grew out of the egg thing.
> the way they did the intro is really nice.
> full of small details and twitches, very synced to the music, thats
> always a hit in my book :)
> its easier to explain how it goes then what it means.
> i rather not try to say what i think the intro means. =)
ok. :)
> thats why i like abstract stuff and you dont i guess :)
> but i like i said, i think anyone who would watch it over and over again
> will eventually enjoy it for just looking nice and the effort the makers
> have putten into making it.
i DO like the abstract stuff. only for some abstract stuff i have the
idea
that they didn't put the same effort in it as other abstract stuff.
maybe i'm talking here about demos that you don't even consider as
'abstract stuff'...
> > my guess it that they are still angry because "that ignorant brat STILL
> > doesn't understand MY opinion is right" :)
>
> "when you cant reason with them try raising the volume"
> in calvin & hobbes ;)
>
if brute force doesn't work, you're just not using it enough.
> > lighting engine? they have a lighting engine?
> > i thought that intro showed only shadebobby lissajous shapes and warping
> > cubes and all that shit? [cool shit, that's for sure]
> > i'll check on it. they have a win32 version now, so i can hear the
> > sound.
> > [somehow i lost that version.. but anyway]
>
> yep, they have a lighting engine, why do you think it looks so fuzzy?
> (for whatever lighting engine definition yours might be dif. then mine)
> the win32 version doesnt feel like the other one, the sound is diferent,
> it ruins it abit.
i don't have a GUS so i'll have to settle for that one...
> > never seen those.
> get angeldust and angeldust2/chrome+astroidea adn sexadelic/byterapers
> then.
> ojuice.net has a search engine, give it some use ;)
yeah, yeah. i just don't have internet [yet] on my pc at home, so i have
to carry around ZIPdisks all the time...
> > or because one coder felt like "hey i've coded it, so it also has to
> > be put in" :)
>
> hehe, i know that feeling :D dont we all do that in the end? damn, so
> thats why my demos suck :P
>
i don't do that, cause usually they don't fit in.
here with 'fit in' i don't mean the design, but i'm talking about my 4k
limit :P
ritz
>
> ritz <ritz...@me.and.die.cyberjunkie.com> writes:
>
> [plastik]
> > [and i also don't like the cube with the spotlights coming out of it
> > because it only has spotlights on the visible sides, which is kinda
> > weird
> > and due to perspective correction some of the spotlights appear 'over'
> > the object while they are in fact behind it. the coder must have seen it
> > while coding the effect. he must have thought 'no one will notice'.
> > i don't like being thought of as too stupid too notice ;) ]
> aha, but you have the comfort of proving him wrong, I have to live
> with the fact that I really am too stupid to notice.
> (and thanks for letting me know... ;).
yeah, maybe i'm a muggezifter, you never know.
Tammo Hinrichs
> got fucked in the arse by 3d-scene players
> kasparov vs codename:chinadoll
codename:chinadoll was a 3d scene player? :)
Anyway, i still wonder why most people aren't able to recognize design
unless
there's the word "design" written all over it (or "orange" or "purple" or
even
"brothom states").
Ok, as personal lamer of a now dead elitegroup member, i may be a bit biased
towards their productions, but an interesting point is that the "art" or
"design" aspect of Kasparov was much more appreciated outside the demo scene
world than in it.
IMO, the "scene" is stuck up in their definitions of design and abstraction
and 3d players since years. Purple/Blasphemy were a sign of hope (and i
definitely appreciate every single Halcyon production very very highly as
well, saint and hplus have a safe place on my all-time-faves list), but what
the heck was so great about "the non stop ibiza experience"? .. i mean, X14
and TV were really cool, megablast and supertv were more than ok, but the
non
stop ibiza experience is in my eyes nothing more than "we repeat what we've
always did, cuz image is all and innovation is nothing... and to be modern,
we
make it worse, because that's what the whole rest of the scene does".
kb.
kn
|
¦ > > i don't like making up themes myself. not because i don't
| > > like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
¦ > > draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
| > > didn't mean.
| > him/her? and even if you can, isn't it more fun to discover what
¦ > you see in it before you start asking other ppl what they see in
| > it?
of some sort. Art is about communication.
¦ Personally I like to make up my own mind rather than spend hours trying to
| figure what the artist meant in the first place. I consider art as an
¦ enlightenment.
Indeed, in analysing the point is *not* to figure out what the artist mean.
It's more about finding out what the art does mean for you or universally
(for those who are inclined to believe in an universality .. see Kant)
-Knos
kn
|
¦ Filipe Cruz wrote:
| >
¦ > > ok, i've done it.
| > > this is the kind of demo that annoys me by having all kinds
¦ > > of ugly glitches and buggy thingies :)
| > > but i liked it very much, although it didn't seem that original
¦ > > to me. dark, gray design. typografy with strange messages. 3d
| > > thingies :) so tell me, what does it all mean?
¦ >
| > it means you need to watch it again, this time with volume higher so you
¦ > can actually follow the song.. =)
| > when you get the chills on the tunnel part (dont ask which one) you will
¦ > understand what it means :)
|
¦ the tunnelpart and especially the music [and some of the design]
it has been released before remember.
| > > i don't like making up themes myself. not because i don't
¦ > > like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
| > > draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
¦ > > didn't mean.
| >
¦ > why not?
| > you think artists really think about the message they want to give out?
¦
| you really expect that if an artist doesn't think about the message
¦ they want to give out, that there sneaks a spontaneous message in the
| artwork? :)
¦ maybe there will, but i doubt it will have meaning about the artists
| thoughts
¦ or relevance or anything.
| i try to, when i draw my cartoons. but i've been told that what i think
¦ what my 'style' and 'design' or 'message' is, some other people consider
| it just a lubricant to make it more pleasant to the eye. [which it is,
¦ but anyway]
| so i doubt that interesting stuff appears with no explicit effort.
depends if you're talking about rap-type messages or a more subtle one.
¦
| > its more of a spontaneous outlet thing normally you know? you dont
¦ > really think about what or why you did things like you did, you just
| > follow the mood and keep doing it or look at it from the whole and do a
¦ > sort of remix/revamp/rewhatever and do it better.
|
¦ either such messages will be very explicit [so you don't have to search]
| or you will never find it. unless the artist intentionally put it in, to
¦ be found only for people who 'understand' his way of thinking.
| [my opinion, of course]
perhaps the message is about obfuscation of the message itself? perhaps about
not giving out a clear message?
¦ > > never seen those.
| > get angeldust and angeldust2/chrome+astroidea adn sexadelic/byterapers
¦ > then.
| > ojuice.net has a search engine, give it some use ;)
¦
| yeah, yeah. i just don't have internet [yet] on my pc at home, so i have
¦ to carry around ZIPdisks all the time...
time to put some demos instead of warez ;)
-Knos
Valery Carpentier
>
> of some sort. Art is about communication.
Agreed. The question would then be Is it a monologue or a dialogue?
> Indeed, in analysing the point is *not* to figure out what the artist
mean.
> It's more about finding out what the art does mean for you or universally
> (for those who are inclined to believe in an universality .. see Kant)
Hmm, some old teachers of mine would disagree with you ;-)
But it's true that before making up your own mind, it's better to try to
dive into the mind of the artists, as a learning process. It's then easier
to recognise greatness when you see it.
valery Carpentier
Filipe Cruz
>
> > another typical example of brilliant pseudo-abstract-design demos that
> > got fucked in the arse by 3d-scene players
>
> > kasparov vs codename:chinadoll
>
>
> Anyway, i still wonder why most people aren't able to recognize design unless
> there's the word "design" written all over it (or "orange" or "purple" or even
> "brothom states").
kasparov has design, it just isnt abstract.
and suposedly abstract is more interesting and goes more deep (though
codename:chinadoll isnt a very good example)
> Ok, as personal lamer of a now dead elitegroup member, i may be a bit biased
> towards their productions, but an interesting point is that the "art" or
> "design" aspect of Kasparov was much more appreciated outside the demo scene
> world than in it.
nine inch nails is more famous then autechre.
it doesnt mean anything, they are diferent, and in the
end of the day its abit unfair that nine inch nails gets all the credits
and autechre doesnt even get half the listeners.
someone has to tell people to watch the rest of the stuff aswell.
unfortunatly i fall into the "spread the word" category of people =)
> IMO, the "scene" is stuck up in their definitions of design and abstraction
> and 3d players since years. Purple/Blasphemy were a sign of hope (and i
> definitely appreciate every single Halcyon production very very highly as
> well, saint and hplus have a safe place on my all-time-faves list), but what
> the heck was so great about "the non stop ibiza experience"? .. i mean, X14
> and TV were really cool, megablast and supertv were more than ok, but the non
> stop ibiza experience is in my eyes nothing more than "we repeat what we've
> always did, cuz image is all and innovation is nothing... and to be modern, we
> make it worse, because that's what the whole rest of the scene does".
statements on demos seem to work for demoscene.
they overdid it abit i think, but its still a nice demo..
searobot, tv and megablast (maybe mr.black aswell) are better then
nonstopibiza though in my rankings.
but any comeback from demogroups is a good thing. specially when there
arent many new groups appearing. giving them support so they maybe do
another (and hopefully better) demo doesnt seem that wrong thing to do.
ps
Filipe Cruz
> > can actually follow the song.. =)
> > when you get the chills on the tunnel part (dont ask which one) you will
> > understand what it means :)
>
> the tunnelpart and especially the music [and some of the design]
> reminded me VERY much of a black&white kkowboy, actually.
blasphemy said somewhere they were abit inspired by te-2rb for their
newer demos..
> so i doubt that interesting stuff appears with no explicit effort.
this is where you can tell someone is talented.
> "no time to fight, system overrriiiii-- BONK!BONK! HEY KEEP IT DOWN WILL
> YA!!!"
hehe, yeah, i hate it when that happens =)
> takes no time, really. grab your nearest text-editor [PICO, emacs or
> notepad..
> well we've had this discussion, so never mind] and within 30 minutes you
> have
> an article. then mail it, and there ya go. if you're really fast it
> might even
> make hugi21 :)
> at least this worked for my article in the next hugi about 4k intro
> trends.
today i wasted my 2 hours free afternoon for a diskmag and for nothing.
im not really in the mood to write anything for any diskmag right now.
> i don't think it's the same scene. well it IS according to the code
> of course, but i think it is supposed to be a NEW thing [of the same
> type]
> which grew out of the egg thing.
maybe.
> i DO like the abstract stuff. only for some abstract stuff i have the
> idea
> that they didn't put the same effort in it as other abstract stuff.
> maybe i'm talking here about demos that you don't even consider as
> 'abstract stuff'...
gluing things together in 2 days isnt good enough, even if its abstract
as hell and even abit interesting.
calodox.org -> "i'm abstract!" proves it =)
> i don't have a GUS so i'll have to settle for that one...
get a gus =D
> yeah, yeah. i just don't have internet [yet] on my pc at home, so i have
> to carry around ZIPdisks all the time...
which most of the time are empty i bet :P
> i don't do that, cause usually they don't fit in.
> here with 'fit in' i don't mean the design, but i'm talking about my 4k
> limit :P
this is where you distinguish the good optimizer coders from the bad :D
but i think we all get abit lazy in that part. i have no skills in size
optimizing (or any other optimizing)
ps
Filipe Cruz
"(kn)" wrote:
>
> .-
> |
> Ś > > i don't like making up themes myself. not because i don't
> | > > like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
> Ś > > draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
> | > > didn't mean.
> Ś > how can you ever be sure what the artist meant, other than asking
> | > him/her? and even if you can, isn't it more fun to discover what
> Ś > you see in it before you start asking other ppl what they see in
> | > it?
> Ś
> | That's getting very philosophical... Is art a media?
>
> of some sort. Art is about communication.
sorry to disagree but...
art is about creation and feeling.
ps
Alex 'bhead//T-Rex' Mamontoff
Hi there!
Is it just me, or it's kinda dead?.. some warez channels there and not too
crowded..
And, on a related note, which networks/channels you eleet scene guys prefer?
8) I'd love to hook up with some of you, 'cos meeting face to face is a bit
hard of a task being a citizen of good ole mother Russia with its fascistic
touristic visas stuff and such.. 8]
bhead =//= www.t-rex.org =//= reviews.t-rex.org =//= bheadhome.narod.ru
.
"Filipe Cruz" <psychic_...@clix.pt> wrote in message
news:3A0C72D...@clix.pt...
> irc.scene.org:6667 should do it
>
> ps
>
> Alex 'bhead//T-Rex' Mamontoff wrote:
> >
> > Hi there!
> >
> > > a general move into scenenet should be planned, like in 2 months time
or
> > > so, so that everyone gets to hear about it and starts going into
> > > scenenet already.
> >
> > erhm, enlighten me people, what is this scenenet? (I hope I typed it
right..
> > too much 'enene's in one word.. 8))
> > I spent half of my puny life in EFNet wars, so I don't need a starter's
> > guide to IRCing.. 8) just the address/port...
> >
> > bhead =//= www.t-rex.org =//= reviews.t-rex.org =//= bheadhome.narod.ru
> > .
Alex 'bhead//T-Rex' Mamontoff
Hi there!
umm. it's about all of the stuff.
a piece of art creates feeling which lets you communicate with it, get
immersed in it.
I get immersed in Kasparov equally as I get immersed in TE2RB, in VIP2 and
MoralHC, in Tesla and Within Minutes. These are all so different in style,
but whu should I, the viewer, care? As long as it gives you that chill down
your spine, it's art.
bhead =//= www.t-rex.org =//= reviews.t-rex.org =//= bheadhome.narod.ru
.
"Filipe Cruz" <psychic_...@clix.pt> wrote in message
news:3A145D23...@clix.pt...
>
>
> "(kn)" wrote:
> >
> > .-
> > |
> > Ś > > i don't like making up themes myself. not because i don't
> > | > > like the 'making-up' process, but more that i don't want to
> > Ś > > draw the wrong conclusion from what the artist meant. or
> > | > > didn't mean.
ritz
>
> ¦ the tunnelpart and especially the music [and some of the design]
> | reminded me VERY much of a black kkowboy, actually.
>
> it has been released before remember.
i know that. [and i meant black-and-white kkowboy, btw.. weird typo]
> | you really expect that if an artist doesn't think about the message
> ¦ they want to give out, that there sneaks a spontaneous message in the
> | artwork? :)
> ¦ maybe there will, but i doubt it will have meaning about the artists
> | thoughts
> ¦ or relevance or anything.
> | i try to, when i draw my cartoons. but i've been told that what i think
> ¦ what my 'style' and 'design' or 'message' is, some other people consider
> | it just a lubricant to make it more pleasant to the eye. [which it is,
> ¦ but anyway]
> | so i doubt that interesting stuff appears with no explicit effort.
>
> depends if you're talking about rap-type messages or a more subtle one.
ok. if the artist has made the demo with a certain well-worked-out idea
in
mind, it will probably automatically get inside the demo. provided that
the
artist is any good, of course. you need to have full control of
everything
you want to make happen before you can fit stuff like that in. [like a
good scripting system maybe, or similar stuff]
> ¦ either such messages will be very explicit [so you don't have to search]
> | or you will never find it. unless the artist intentionally put it in, to
> ¦ be found only for people who 'understand' his way of thinking.
> | [my opinion, of course]
>
> perhaps the message is about obfuscation of the message itself? perhaps about
> not giving out a clear message?
for te-r2b you mean? could very well be.
oh, btw. i also discovered why you get chills in that tunnel-part in
te-r2b...
they just turn the volume of the tune a bit up :) nice idea, i have also
thought about doing such a thing. [but then a bit LOUDER :) like 'start
the riot'
from atari teenage riot does... start with a very soft breakbeat and
then when
you are just about to turn it up al little.. BLAMMO!]
> ¦ > > never seen those.
> | > get angeldust and angeldust2/chrome+astroidea adn sexadelic/byterapers
> ¦ > then.
> | > ojuice.net has a search engine, give it some use ;)
> ¦
> | yeah, yeah. i just don't have internet [yet] on my pc at home, so i have
> ¦ to carry around ZIPdisks all the time...
>
> time to put some demos instead of warez ;)
>
i don't d/l warez :)
usually i get them from *somewhere*, but i really don't need much.
just the standards like Visual studio, photoshop and stuff like that.
ritz
>
> > > it means you need to watch it again, this time with volume higher so you
> > > can actually follow the song.. =)
> > > when you get the chills on the tunnel part (dont ask which one) you will
> > > understand what it means :)
> >
> > the tunnelpart and especially the music [and some of the design]
> > reminded me VERY much of a black&white kkowboy, actually.
>
> newer demos..
>
that explains a lot.
blasphemy probably took a little bit of the idea of te-r2b and expanded
it into something really well polished as kkowboy. this is a great
example
of building/inspiring on something and yet making something completely
new.
> > so i doubt that interesting stuff appears with no explicit effort.
> this is where you can tell someone is talented.
yup.
> > i DO like the abstract stuff. only for some abstract stuff i have the
> > idea
> > that they didn't put the same effort in it as other abstract stuff.
> > maybe i'm talking here about demos that you don't even consider as
> > 'abstract stuff'...
>
> gluing things together in 2 days isnt good enough, even if its abstract
> as hell and even abit interesting.
> calodox.org -> "i'm abstract!" proves it =)
well, that's what i wanted to explain which i sometimes don't like about
abstract demos. because most of them are glued together in 2 days :)
not the ones we discussed here, but the average "abstract" demo that
doesn't really get discussed on csipd, but the sh*t that i see at most
dutch demoparties [which luckily doesn't place that high :) ]
> > i don't have a GUS so i'll have to settle for that one...
> get a gus =D
uhm. if i ever get the chance i won't hesitate, but i'm not really
searching actively atm.
> > yeah, yeah. i just don't have internet [yet] on my pc at home, so i have
> > to carry around ZIPdisks all the time...
> which most of the time are empty i bet :P
nah they're usually full of demos [or scanned cartoons] from last time i
used it :)
> > i don't do that, cause usually they don't fit in.
> > here with 'fit in' i don't mean the design, but i'm talking about my 4k
> > limit :P
>
> this is where you distinguish the good optimizer coders from the bad :D
> but i think we all get abit lazy in that part. i have no skills in size
> optimizing (or any other optimizing)
>
size optimizing is easy. you'd be surprised how small things get if you
write
them in pure asm, think a *littlebit* about what you're doing, and use
smart datarepresentations.
and then there are the zillions of tricks that gain you about 3 bytes
each.
but the most important thing is a bit of common sense and knowledge what
you are doing :)
ritz
>
> > | That's getting very philosophical... Is art a media?
> >
> > of some sort. Art is about communication.
>
i think that depends. when art is a monologue it has to put some
very strong arguments out to really work, but then you have great art.
if art is a dialogue, it is great from the beginning, but it is
really difficult to create art so that the viewer gets the idea of
a dialogue. [not the idea, but the concept, the abstract feeling of
a dialogue, like, really vague :) ]
just my opinion, of course.
> > Indeed, in analysing the point is *not* to figure out what the artist
> mean.
> > It's more about finding out what the art does mean for you or universally
> > (for those who are inclined to believe in an universality .. see Kant)
>
> Hmm, some old teachers of mine would disagree with you ;-)
what would they say?
> But it's true that before making up your own mind, it's better to try to
> dive into the mind of the artists, as a learning process. It's then easier
> to recognise greatness when you see it.
it helps if you try to think of what the artist must have been doing
while
creating the art, indeed. it sometimes gives great insight, and at least
it
should make you appreciate the work more.
kn
|
| > > Indeed, in analysing the point is *not* to figure out what the artist
¦ > mean.
| > > It's more about finding out what the art does mean for you or universally
¦ > > (for those who are inclined to believe in an universality .. see Kant)
| >
¦ > Hmm, some old teachers of mine would disagree with you ;-)
|
¦ what would they say?
anyway *my* old teachers agree with me
¦ > But it's true that before making up your own mind, it's better to try to
| > dive into the mind of the artists, as a learning process. It's then easier
¦ > to recognise greatness when you see it.
|
¦ it helps if you try to think of what the artist must have been doing
| while
¦ creating the art, indeed. it sometimes gives great insight, and at least
| it
¦ should make you appreciate the work more.
art exists beside its creator.
:: snotrag ::
including myself ;) you can also try #coders which used to be quite crowded.
obviously, a lot of guys are on efnet, especially the warez scene. mybe
someone else can point something here... (?)
"Alex 'bhead//T-Rex' Mamontoff" <bh...@ropnet.ru> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3a14786e$1...@news.ropnet.ru...
Kuno Woudt
> > ofcourse there's some more readable text which isn't that obvious, but
> > to me that doesn't change the fact that this demo blatantly admits not
> > having a message.
> and that's what's cool about it?
it is one of the things that's cool about it,...
getting chills at the tunnel part just after the credits (as filipe
pointed out) is the main reason to watch it over and over and over
again :)
in fact, after repeated viewing, my mind reduces the first part of
te-2rb to something which only serves to provide build-up of tension
or anticipation for the abovementioned tunnel part - which is very
similar to some tracks on the most recent autechre album (1): in my
mind track 4 (melve) exists only to provide anticipation for track 5
(vose in).
hmmm, I don't think i'm explaining this well, please bear with me
while I have another go :)
remember as a kid getting presents from sinterklaas (2) ?
the anticipation of getting presents is allmost as good as the presents
themselves, that's the anticipation I mean in te-2rb (and melve/vose in).
> i can't be sure. but i CAN convince myself that this 'might very well
> be' what the artist meant. and when i can't find anything that 'might very
> well be' what the artist meant, i don't settle for anything less.
hmm. sounds reasonable :)
I don't usually look for a meaning, maybe I should.
-- warp.
(1) warp66, I don't think it has a title.
(2) dutch competitor of santa :)
Filipe Cruz
> write
> them in pure asm, think a *littlebit* about what you're doing, and use
> smart datarepresentations.
> and then there are the zillions of tricks that gain you about 3 bytes
> each.
> but the most important thing is a bit of common sense and knowledge what
> you are doing :)
it is easy when you actually know how to code.
not easy for someone like me who learned it all from bad pascal examples
and is still trying to figure out watcom c/c++ inner glitches.
i dont know any asm either.
ps
Filipe Cruz
well, my definition of art is more personal then everyone else's on this
newsgroup apparently.
but then again i didnt went to art school, what do i know?
i will shut up now.
ps
Filipe Cruz
> pointed out) is the main reason to watch it over and over and over
> again :)
cool, someone who feels the same.
> in fact, after repeated viewing, my mind reduces the first part of
> te-2rb to something which only serves to provide build-up of tension
> or anticipation for the abovementioned tunnel part - which is very
> similar to some tracks on the most recent autechre album (1): in my
> mind track 4 (melve) exists only to provide anticipation for track 5
> (vose in).
"melve" and "vose in" do have that "something is missing but i am not
quite sure what it is exactly, i just wish this track would develop
faster" feeling.
makes me feel frustrated and skip to track number 6. :P
its like getting so sick of foreplay that you go directly into the
aftersex chillout. it might feel wrong to do so but what the heck,
atleast you can chill =)
ps
Filipe Cruz
only really populated channel on scenenet is #trax but its pretty quiet
and idling, they dont like outsiders much aswell.
anyways, ircnet is the most scenewise irc network atm i believe..
#pixel #coders #trax #thescene #amigascne #c-64
#demoscene - hungarian
#chscene - swiss
#swedescene - swede
#daskmig - norwegian
#suomiscene - finn
#polishscene (i think) - polish
#nlcoders - holland
plus lots of groups channels and other shit like that. just gotta find
places..
hmm... i think i been on irc too much...
ps
:: snotrag :: wrote:
>
> you'll find a bunch of german sceners on ircnet channel #szene.ger...
> including myself ;) you can also try #coders which used to be quite crowded.
> obviously, a lot of guys are on efnet, especially the warez scene. mybe
> someone else can point something here... (?)
>
> "Alex 'bhead//T-Rex' Mamontoff" <bh...@ropnet.ru> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:3a14786e$1...@news.ropnet.ru...
> >
Alex 'bhead//T-Rex' Mamontoff
Hi there!
> so if it makes you go "wow" then its art?..
Well, maybe not "wow", maybe "hmm", or "hehe" or something. Good art
provokes the mind of viewer and stays there for a long time.
> well, my definition of art is more personal then everyone else's on this
> newsgroup apparently.
The fact is there can be as many definitions of art as many people live on
earth. (well, almost 8))
Anyway, that's the deal with good art, really. It can't just be easily
defined so that everyone just come to a simple conclusion about the
"message" or something.. it's different for everyone.
> but then again i didnt went to art school, what do i know?
Neither did I (only a lame design-school 8)).
> i will shut up now.
As you wanna.. this is getting a bit too much theoretical.. 8)
SexyMF
wrote:
>sorry to disagree but...
>art is about creation and feeling.
heh! that reminded me to put in the "Artist" category into the demomakers site,
can't BELIEVE that I had forgotten that! :) <selfthwap>
SMF.
--
"I mean, why would anybody watch this (Johnny Bravo) after watching
Tom and Jerry - that was so *intelligent*".
- Random Person
SexyMF
wrote:
talking of which, can anybody give me some more "skills" to put in the webpage?
what's there is very very prelim, I'll be looking to you guys to tell me what's
required.....
SMF.
--
It IS the end of the world as you know it! You can now
get PAID to listen to CDs and MP3s!!! Click on this link:
www.soundom.com/cgi-bin/affiliate.cgi?id=sexymf
And start feeling fine! :)
Filipe Cruz
whats the url again?
ps