Got a lovely craigslist AS/400 9404 ... now what?

[andy]

Hello everyone - any tips for an ABSOLUTE AS/400 novice?

I've acquired a beautiful 9404 which seems to be fully loaded with all sorts of goodies at the back. A bay at the front is missing but the other two bays have a pair of EMC drives in each. Also an 8" floppy and Tape drive. Model E10, serial 10-24107.

After thoroughly embarrassing myself (i will spare you the details) due to my lack of knowledge regarding baluns and twinax, I managed to hook up a 5291 terminal via twinax block adapter 72X5645 to the AS/400. When I try to manually IPL (A) eventually the screen springs to life and tells me:



Display Missing Disk Units

The following disk units are missing from the disk configuration:

ASP UNIT TYPE MODEL SERIAL NUM ADDRESS REFERENCE CODE
1 3 6109 0040 00-0635524 0010-0500FFFF FFF2
0 0 2615 0001 10-2892013 0010-FFFFFFFF 3400

Press Enter to use the Dedicated Service Tools (DST)




Anyway I can enter into DST (password was QSECOFR) and go to "Work with Disk Units" then "Display Storage Device Error" I get the same info again.

If I go to "Work with Disk Unit Recovery" I get options to "Assign Missing Unit."

Then I stop! Too scared to go further... completely do not know what I am doing.

Assuming there's a missing disk that was pulled before this went on craigslist, how do I tell the system to make do without it? Should I do that? How can I reinstall the operating system with these missing disk units?

So many questions... apologies as I am completely out of my depth!

Andy

[Steve Richter]

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 9:29:37 PM UTC-4, andy wrote:
> Hello everyone - any tips for an ABSOLUTE AS/400 novice?

the E10 is a very old model. I would not worry about messing up the system even more and just plow ahead. If those drives spin up and the system sees them poke around in DST and take options to remove them and add them back. The point being that if the system sees the drives there will be DST options that allow you to add them to the system config.

[andy]

Thanks Steve, will do just that!

Silly question really: the DST code. Is that running from one of the drives or is it firmware or something else?

[Dr.UgoGagliardelli]

Depending on what you see on the panel, A or B means that the dst has
been loaded from disk, D means that has been loaded from tape.
If you don't have any tape mounted, for sure dst ahsben loaded from disk.

[andy]

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 9:05:13 AM UTC-4, Steve Richter wrote:

Hi Steve, I went back to DST and I tried every one of these options 1-12.... I was hoping I could delete the missing drive....

Work with Disk Unit Recovery

Select one of the following:

1. Save disk unit data
2. Restore disk unit data
3. Replace configured unit
4. Assign missing unit
5. Recover configuration
6. Disk unit problem recovery procedure
7. Suspend/resume mirrored protection
8. copy disk unit data
9. Delete Disk Unit Data
10. Upgrade load source utility
11. Rebuild disk unit data
12. Reclaim IOP cache storage


But - I was thwarted at every turn! I presume I am looking in the wrong place?


1. Save disk unit data
2. Restore disk unit data
3. Replace configured unit --> "NO UNITS AVAILABLE FOR THIS FUNCTION
4. Assign missing unit ---> “NO UNITS AVAILABLE”
5. Recover configuration ---> “NO RECOVERY NEEDED”
6. Disk unit problem recovery procedure ---> “MISSING DISK IS NOT AN OPTION”
7. Suspend/resume mirrored protection ---> “THERE ARE NO MIRRORED UNITS IN THE CONFIGURATION”
8. copy disk unit data
9. Delete Disk Unit Data ---> “NO UNITS AVAILABLE TO BE ERASED”
10. Upgrade load source utility
11. Rebuild disk unit data ---> “NO UNITS AVAILABLE FOR REBUILD”
12. Reclaim IOP cache storage ---> “NO SUBSYSTEM IS AVAILABLE FOR CACHE STORAGE RECLAIM”

[andy]

thanks for explaining!
Andy

[Steve Richter]

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 9:04:45 PM UTC-4, andy wrote:
>
>
> Work with Disk Unit Recovery
>

do the drives in the system show up on any of the other screens? Try to match up the physical location of the drives with what displays on the config screens.

[andy]

Hi Steve, starting at the top level menu, I get this:



Use Dedicated Service Tools (DST)

Select one of the following:

1. perform an IPL
2. Install the operating system
3. Work with Licensed Internal Code
4. Work with Disk Units
5. Work with DST environment
6. Select DST console mode
7. Start a service tool
8. Perform automatic installation of the opeating system
9. Work with save storage and restore storage

Selection: __


I've nosed around all of the options. Most of the disk stuff is in Option 5. I've traversed pretty much every menu option to see if I can do anything.


With with Disk Units

Select one of the following:

1. Work with disk configuration
3. Analyze disk device problem
3. Work with disk unit recovery
4. Work with disk unit information

Selection: __


If I select "DISPLAY DISK CONFIGURATION" I get this list of four disks, showing one missing


Display Disk Configuration Status

ASP UNIT SER NUM TYPE MODEL ADDRESS STATUS
1 Unprotected
1 00-0634584 6109 0040 0010-0100FFFF Configured
1 00-0647666 6109 0040 0020-0100FFFF Configured
3* 00-0635524 6109 0040 0010-0500FFFF Configured
1 00-0634979 6109 0040 0020-0500FFFF Configured


As I am assuming Disk Unit 3 was pulled (presumably it had company data on it) any idea what I can do? Maybe I am wrong: maybe Disk Unit 3 is one of the 4 physical drives (I have x2 units, each with 2 disks) and it's just dead.

So... I am feeling reckless.. any ideas? :-)

[andy]

Sorry forgot to add:

If I try to Remove Units from Configuration.......



Remove Units from Configuration

OPT UNIT ASP SER NUM TYPE MODEL ADDRESS STATUS
__ 2 1 00-0647666 6109 040 0020-0100FFFF Configured
_4 3* 1 00-0635524 6109 040 0010-0500FFFF Configured
__ 4 1 00-0634979 6109 040 0020-0500FFFF Configured

* - Indicates the unit is missing from the configuration


If I attempt removal of Unit 3 I get this:


Removal of Units failed

The attempt to remove units has failed because of missing or
suspended units in the configuration. Or, ASPs with missing
units that are not suspended contain data.

o Check to ensure you have selected the correct units to
be removed. Do the following:

- If there are mirror protected ASPs on the system, check
for units that have a status of 'suspended.' If they
are not also missing they can be resumed using the
'suspend/resume' support under the recovery procedures
option

- Check the configuration status. IF THERE ARE ANY UNITS
WITH AN '*' NEXT TO THE UNIT NUMBER, IT IS MISSING. THEY
COULD BE BROKEN, THE POWER COULD BE TURNED OFF ON THE RACK
More...
Press enter to continue
F3 =exit F12=Cancel



See my use of CAPSLOCK in the previous paragraph! Sadly i cannot read the rest of the advice IBM are giving as I cannot figure out how to select "MORE..." with my enormous keyboard :-)



Again- any tips appreciated!!!

Andy

[CRPence]

On 03-Oct-2016 12:44 -0500, andy wrote:
> […] Sadly I cannot read the rest of the advice IBM are giving as I

> cannot figure out how to select "MORE..." with my enormous keyboard
> :-)
>

No mention of what is that keyboard; but if 5250 hardware, then look
for [and if found, try both of the] RollUp and\or RollDown keys, which
may require use of the Shift key. See the /arrow/ keys left of the
numeric keypad: [http://www.twindata.com/affirmative/1225T-VeryLarge.htm]

--
Regards, Chuck

[andy]

Hi Chuck - here's a picture of my 5291. I have to say it is a PLEASURE banging away at the keys on this beast. I have no idea how old (it's OLD!) but it's so solid and when you type on it you feel like you are doing something serious :-)


http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/ibm/5291/IMG_3014terminale1.JPG

Sadly I was offered 15 of these several years ago for next to nothing, but my wife freaked out so I just took the one....

[fried...@yahoo.de]

Hi,
as far as I remember the address scheme the missing drive would be the upper drive in the bottom drive bay.
Just look if it's in

[CRPence]

On 03-Oct-2016 22:30 -0500, andy wrote:
> […] a picture of my 5291 […]

I could not zoom in on the image to find them, but being a 5250
display device, and the fact I had used some of those same
workstations+keyboards, there is definitely a rollup\rolldown
capability. Hmm.

A quick check\web-search for keyboard layout on that model shows them
being located as second row-up, on the leftmost group keys; i.e. they
are just above the right&left Arrow keys. Seems from the symbols on the
keys, that they are enabled with the Shift key; i.e. without the shift,
they are the up&down keys. The OS gives the choice of the perspective
for how the feature acts for framing the text; i.e. whether "up" refers
to the movement of the text behind the /frame/, or the way the /frame/
moves over the text. IIRC, the typical and default perspective, is that
RollUp=PageDown.

Makes me wonder how I ever managed using that keyboard with those
keys located in such an awkward area, so difficult to use without loss
of hand position, even if only on those rare occasions; I had early-on,
switched to use a PC and emulator, and choosing my own keyboard layout
with the similarly sturdy IBM PC keyboard, was way more comfortable.

--
Regards, Chuck

[andy]

yes - I could definitely get "MORE" help when I did a combination of SHIFT and the arrow (down/up.) Thanks for the tip!

I think the problem with my "MISSING DISK UNIT" is that I am giving confusing info. Let me dump the pertinent screens onto a quick youtube clip and get back to you :-)

[CRPence]

On 08-Oct-2016 21:59 -0500, andy wrote:
> yes - I could definitely get "MORE" help when I did a combination of
> SHIFT and the arrow (down/up.) Thanks for the tip!

Who knew, that any actual Roll keys would have some life left, after
all these years!? ;-)

>
> I think the problem with my "MISSING DISK UNIT" is that I am giving
> confusing info. Let me dump the pertinent screens onto a quick
> youtube clip and get back to you :-)

Of course that will be addressing the /general/ "you", versus me
specifically, as I will have little to offer about the the disks and
configuration; plus, I have metered service :-( so no streaming videos.

Whenever I encountered those types of disk hardware issues [in the
lab], I could remain /blissfully ignorant/ as somebody else would ensure
*corrective action*; I just had to be prepared for the likelihood that
any data, that either I had not yet backed-up or had not originally
transferred to the failed test-system from a production server [on which
regular backups were presumed done regularly, and available, at least
for DR, even if not individual files\data], would be gone.

Note: IIRC there were some disk units of, perhaps of models 9334,
9336, and maybe 9337, that suffered /stiction/ for lack of continuous or
at least recent spinning; being powered down and stored for a long
period would qualify as likely origin. There was a /dropping/ technique
that possibly would enable releasing the heads to allow the disks to
start [spinning] properly; the /stiction/ was a common origin for disks
not reporting-in, such that despite being powered-on, they were not
operational, and would not come on-line to report-back to the system as
active.

--
Regards, Chuck

[andy]

thanks Chuck, interesting stuff about Stiction.... I guess we *could* have a situation here where the disk failing enough (due to stiction) to report in as missing... yet "present" enough to prevent me from deleting it!!

I am wondering if I should try powering up, disconnecting one disk at a time.

Maybe that will legitimately force the disk to being missing.

OK - sounds like a plan! (as you have already figured I have no idea what I am doing :-))

[andy]

OK - quick update.

I threw caution to the wind:

1. Identified the "missing" disk - removed it physically
2. Powered up
3. Went to DST - Tools - work with disk units
4. Went to ASP - Delete ASP data
5. Went to ASP tools - removed missing unit SUCESSFULLY!
6. Now the system tells me to insert media and install the operating system

Uh-oh. Anyway I don't have the media. I hit ENTER and it's now doing this:


IPL STEP IN PROGRESS
IPL step ....... Storage Management Recovery



It's been sitting like this for a while, disk lights flashing frantically.

Looks pretty busy... SCR code: C600 4260

More to follow!

Andy

[andy]

OK my wild optimism did not help. I do need an install tape and (naturally) I don't have one.

ERROR INSTALLING THE OPERATING SYSTEM

The tape unit is not ready

Select one of the following

1. Attempt to install the operating system again
2. End the install (the system ended abnormally)

Note: the tape unit must be ready before attempting to install
the operating system again.

[fried...@yahoo.de]

Well, bad luck. Where do you get it from? Perhaps they have still the original tapes

[andy]

Yep I think I have well and truly ruined it.... Cannot get to DST anymore :-(

In fact it no longer gives me the option to load a tape!

Just blank screen on my terminal. I tried IPL A B C D same code each time

B121 1806

[andy]

unfortunately the guy I got it from had no idea about the history or much else. I think he thought it was an old, over-sized tower PC.

[CRPence]

The SRCB1211806, i.e. the System Reference Code (SRC) [in keyword
symptom form] appears nowhere in recent web memories :-(

However, newer docs suggest that the /generic/ SRCB1##1806 represents
a condition for the Alternate IPL device, the Tape device in this case,
as not being ready [e.g. is not powered on, or for whatever possible
other reason(s) did not report-in as available hardware]:

[IBM i 7.2->Systems management->Backup and recovery->Recovering your
system->Recovering the Licensed Internal Code->Preparing for loading the
Licensed Internal Code->Task 4: Loading the Licensed Internal Code from
media]
(http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzarm/rzarmlicmed.htm)
"…
SRC B1xx 1806
• The device for the alternate IPL was not found or was not ready.
Make sure that you powered on the device, that you loaded the correct
media volume, and the media volume is ready. Then continue with the next
step.
…"

As I recall, a prior message in this topic thread had suggested an
option was taken to /initialize/ the ASP(s). I expect that task would
have prepared the disks for a /scratch install/, typical of DR, whereby
the LIC and OS are loaded onto freshly cleared disks, from media. AIUI,
if the LIC were cleared from the load-source, then the code [and
text-as-menus et al] that _is_ the Dedicated Service Tools (DST)
feature, is no longer /there/ to be run, and no panels to be presented;
just some limited amount of /text/ and codes that might be presented by
the even lower-level code, and mostly [¿entirely?] directed at the
control-panel vs at the more complex 5250 terminal. So there is
probably going to be very limited function [limited /visibility/ to
anything functional] pending the /load/ of the OS from media; at which
time, there will again be the /code/ loaded onto the disk from which to
run DST, for which there will again be a presentation of various panels
of text\menu -- thus again, the visibility to functional tasks\work.

p.s. I recall that the location of the cursor on the local-attached
5250 device gives an indication of whether the system is aware of the
device or is unaware of the device; i.e. sometimes [though perhaps of no
value in this case; esp. because I do not recall the meanings], beyond
knowing just that there is a "blank screen", there is value in knowing
also "with the cursor located in the ¿upper|lower left/right corner?"

--
Regards, Chuck

[andy]

Hi Chuck - my screen looks like this when I power on from cold and wait for a little while:

CURSOR TOP LEFT

<lots of blank lines>




01-02 -- -- -- -- --


FWIW From cold it takes about 20 mins before the display comes to rest:


Function Data
11-2 B600 0506


I cannot believe in my unbridled enthusiasm I destroyed my ability to get into DST!

[andy]

B6xx0506

Attempt to destroy a task with critical flag on
Perform LICIP08

[andy]

Any tips anyone? I can't bear to ditch this beautiful box!!!

(Yes i realize it is obsolete hardware, but i cannot accept this is the end.. can anyone assist me with some desperate AS400 CPR???)

cheers guys
andy

[CRPence]

I expect that if you send out a request for a copy of the OS saved
onto tapes compatible with the drive, that the D-Mode IPL should
probably be good to go, after/if any copy comes your way.

This tired/old USENET group might not be a good place to make such a
request, per too few using this forum. But, I have few ideas for where
else, other than back to craigslist or ebay. There is a non-tech mailing
list on the lists.midrange.com that might be appropriate [of the fora
there] to ask, but probably not many subscribers.

--
Regards, Chuck

[Jon Paris]

The best list would actually be midrange-L at midrange.com Chuck. Larry Bolhuis, Pete Massiello, and all the other hardware gurus I know hang out there. Larry also tends to have "spare" parts, OS tapes, etc. for most everything. All due respect to those that hang out here, but this list is too sparsely followed. The OP would be much better served by asking on the midrange-l list and rather than going through the whole tale again perhaps point folks to this thread.

[andy]

thank you Jon and Chuck for your guidance. I will resume my investigations at midrange forthwith!

Interestingly in my early searches regarding vintage AS/400 I kept landing here (google groups) but that is probably due to google <cough> "directing" me here :-)

[fried...@yahoo.de]

You need an old IBM i operating system. Additionally you need a music tape to tell the machine which type it is. If you do not have this tape you can only use the machine as a boat anchor

[CRPence]

IIRC, by some point [a particular release and/or model(s)?], the
MULIC [not music] was not required.? Probably some discussions can be
found on the web that might explain more for the purposes of the OP.

--
Regards, Chuck

[Jon Paris]

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 11:18:09 AM UTC-4, fried...@yahoo.de wrote:
> You need an old IBM i operating system. Additionally you need a music tape to tell the machine which type it is. If you do not have this tape you can only use the machine as a boat anchor

With a machine that old you will indeed need a music tape (or Spotify or whatever) to give you something to listen to while you wait for it to do anything <grin>

[andy]

Well I'm not modern enough for Spotify but definitely will need some music to keep me entertained. Although... I do not want to do anything to distract me from the sound of my AS/400 disks, power supply and whatnot :-)

[fried...@yahoo.de]

Oh, my phone did this and changed mulic to music!
And the E10 definitely needs one
MULIC = Model-Unique Licensed Internal Code
When you have installed the micro code of os400 the machine comes with an src of A6001 6052 which means insert mulic tape.

[andy]

To be honest I am not quite sure what machine I have. It's the cream colored box, but if I hit Option 20 on the panel it's adamant it's 9404 0E10.... please forgive my confusion but if I google 9404-E10 I see mostly shiny black (newer) looking models only.

Oh and when I try and power up now ... after about 10 mins I get 11-2 B600 0506

thanks!
Andy

[fried...@yahoo.de]

E10 is a cream coloured machine!
All the manuals for this machines I had in paper form, they were not available on electronic form. All thrown away about 15 years ago with mulic tapes and the machine itself

[andy]

On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 3:25:21 PM UTC-4, fried...@yahoo.de wrote:
> E10 is a cream coloured machine!
> All the manuals for this machines I had in paper form, they were not available on electronic form. All thrown away about 15 years ago with mulic tapes and the machine itself

thanks for confirming.... this model seems somewhat unloved :-)

[drf...@gmail.com]

Are you interested in getting rid of this box?

If yes, where are you located?

[S SS]

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 9:29:37 PM UTC-4, andy wrote:
> Hello everyone - any tips for an ABSOLUTE AS/400 novice?
>
> I've acquired a beautiful 9404 which seems to be fully loaded with all sorts of goodies at the back. A bay at the front is missing but the other two bays have a pair of EMC drives in each. Also an 8" floppy and Tape drive. Model E10, serial 10-24107.
>
> After thoroughly embarrassing myself (i will spare you the details) due to my lack of knowledge regarding baluns and twinax, I managed to hook up a 5291 terminal via twinax block adapter 72X5645 to the AS/400. When I try to manually IPL (A) eventually the screen springs to life and tells me:
>
>
>
> Display Missing Disk Units
>
> The following disk units are missing from the disk configuration:
>
> ASP UNIT TYPE MODEL SERIAL NUM ADDRESS REFERENCE CODE
> 1 3 6109 0040 00-0635524 0010-0500FFFF FFF2
> 0 0 2615 0001 10-2892013 0010-FFFFFFFF 3400
>
> Press Enter to use the Dedicated Service Tools (DST)
>
>
>
>
> Anyway I can enter into DST (password was QSECOFR) and go to "Work with Disk Units" then "Display Storage Device Error" I get the same info again.
>
> If I go to "Work with Disk Unit Recovery" I get options to "Assign Missing Unit."
>
> Then I stop! Too scared to go further... completely do not know what I am doing.
>
> Assuming there's a missing disk that was pulled before this went on craigslist, how do I tell the system to make do without it? Should I do that? How can I reinstall the operating system with these missing disk units?
>
> So many questions... apologies as I am completely out of my depth!
>
> Andy

@ Andy,

Do you want to sell the drives?