as400 vs mainframe
ashutos...@gmail.com
future career.
Unknown
<ashutos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d6857c5a-ea11-43e8...@m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> please tell me which system i.e. as400 or mainframe is better for
> future career.
The AS/400 is already no more - except at sites where they can't afford to
upgrade to current technology. Mainframes are few and far between now.
The future (and I speak as a long time advocate of AS/400 aka iSeries aka
i5 etc.) is definitely not this midrange series.
Nearly every client I've had since the early 90's has migrated off that
system onto something else (normally serveral things else if a M$ server
cluster!). Many have gone for SAP software and migrated to a large unix box
as part of the job.
I expect that even the new Power systems that are supposed to be the iSeries
and pSeries combined will be bought in the main without the "i" (aka CPF aka
OS/400 aka OS/5 etc.) operating system. Why pay loadsa money when you can
do it on the cheap with Unix/Linux, a database (eg. Oracle) and the much
sexier GUI development platforms?
My advice for the modern budding programmer: go Windows + Unix; go 'visual
programming' with C# and the like with their IDE's, go web with ASP and PHP
(even Perl), go XML, MS SQL and Oracle for database.
Why? Because iSeries contracts (and probably employment vacancies) are now
about 1% of the total - and falling.
thegman
jobs on Windows and Unix/Linux than iSeries or mainframe, but there
are also a lot more people going for those jobs, and consequently, the
pay is pushed downward. In the UK at least, jobs doing VB on Windows,
or PHP on Unix pays very, very badly, but if you have experience in
"enterprise" products like Oracle, Mainframe, iSeries, Peoplesoft,
etc. the pay is much higher. The reason would appear to be is that
these are not "sexy" to learn, not many people learn them, and
consequently, companies have to pay a lot to get people with these
skills. It's the same in any industry rare == expensive.
Also, saying AS/400 is no more is like saying Windows NT is no more,
it may be true, but almost the same product is still successfully sold
under a different name.
Bradley V. Stone
> Nearly every client I've had since the early 90's has migrated off that
> system onto something else (normally serveral things else if a M$ server
> cluster!). Many have gone for SAP software and migrated to a large unix
> box as part of the job.
>
That's funny, I keep getting more and more AS400 (etc.. etc..) clients
and customers every day. :) And existing ones keep buying new AS400s
every 2-3 years. :)
I would say less than 1% of my customers go off the AS400, and not to
the tech guy's will.. usually upper managment that doesn't have a clue.
My advice to questions like these is don't focus on any one "programming
language" or platform. Just learn how to program whether it's with
Java, C, etc.. etc.. Be a programmer, not a coder. Then switching
languages really is as easy as learning a new syntax.
Brad
www.bvstools.com
Jonathan Ball
> Richard wrote:
>> Nearly every client I've had since the early 90's has migrated off
>> that system onto something else (normally serveral things else if a M$
>> server cluster!). Many have gone for SAP software and migrated to a
>> large unix box as part of the job.
>>
>
> That's funny, I keep getting more and more AS400 (etc.. etc..) clients
> and customers every day. :)
That's funny - I watched the contract market for AS400/iSeries/i5 go
almost completely dry in 2004, and watched hourly rates drop by 1/3. I
now see contract offerings in Dice and Monster and CareerBuilder looking
for programmers who have almost every IT technical skill imaginable,
plus the ability to swap out nuclear reactor cores and cook a perfect
beef Wellington. Well, not quite on those last two, but the contract
market AS400 skillsets is definitely in the toilet compared with five
years ago.
> And existing ones keep buying new AS400s
> every 2-3 years. :)
>
> I would say less than 1% of my customers go off the AS400, and not to
> the tech guy's will.. usually upper managment that doesn't have a clue.
I always laugh at techies saying that upper management doesn't have a
clue. If *you* had a clue, you'd be in upper management. It's far
harder than it looks.
In any case, my current employer - had to give up 23 years of
contracting/consulting three years ago - whose core system is JBA
(System 21) on i5, has a firm commitment to move everything to SAP on
System p.
The System i is, indeed, dead. It was a great machine during its time,
but trend is unmistakable.
Bradley V. Stone
> Bradley V. Stone wrote:
>> Richard wrote:
>>> Nearly every client I've had since the early 90's has migrated off
>>> that system onto something else (normally serveral things else if a
>>> M$ server cluster!). Many have gone for SAP software and migrated to
>>> a large unix box as part of the job.
>>>
>>
>> That's funny, I keep getting more and more AS400 (etc.. etc..) clients
>> and customers every day. :)
>
> That's funny - I watched the contract market for AS400/iSeries/i5 go
> almost completely dry in 2004, and watched hourly rates drop by 1/3. I
> now see contract offerings in Dice and Monster and CareerBuilder looking
> for programmers who have almost every IT technical skill imaginable,
> plus the ability to swap out nuclear reactor cores and cook a perfect
> beef Wellington. Well, not quite on those last two, but the contract
> market AS400 skillsets is definitely in the toilet compared with five
> years ago.
>
Maybe it's just weeding out those who can and those who say they can.
the former is much too prevalent these days... not just in the iSeries
world.
>
>
>> And existing ones keep buying new AS400s every 2-3 years. :)
>>
>> I would say less than 1% of my customers go off the AS400, and not to
>> the tech guy's will.. usually upper managment that doesn't have a clue.
>
> I always laugh at techies saying that upper management doesn't have a
> clue. If *you* had a clue, you'd be in upper management. It's far
> harder than it looks.
I'm sure it is.. I guess running my own company for over 15 years with
over 3000 current customers (both software and consulting) doesn't count
compared to the title of CIO, Program Manager, DBA, etc...
>
> In any case, my current employer - had to give up 23 years of
> contracting/consulting three years ago - whose core system is JBA
> (System 21) on i5, has a firm commitment to move everything to SAP on
> System p.
>
> The System i is, indeed, dead. It was a great machine during its time,
> but trend is unmistakable.
Hey, I'm fine with people saying that. The more that do, the more doors
open for me.
Brad
www.bvstools.com
Jonathan Ball
wrote:
> Jonathan Ball wrote:
> > Bradley V. Stone wrote:
> >> Richard wrote:
> >>> Nearly every client I've had since the early 90's has migrated off
> >>> that system onto something else (normally serveral things else if a
> >>> M$ server cluster!). Many have gone for SAP software and migrated to
> >>> a large unix box as part of the job.
>
> >> That's funny, I keep getting more and more AS400 (etc.. etc..) clients
> >> and customers every day. :)
>
> > That's funny - I watched the contract market for AS400/iSeries/i5 go
> > almost completely dry in 2004, and watched hourly rates drop by 1/3. I
> > now see contract offerings in Dice and Monster and CareerBuilder looking
> > for programmers who have almost every IT technical skill imaginable,
> > plus the ability to swap out nuclear reactor cores and cook a perfect
> > beef Wellington. Well, not quite on those last two, but the contract
> > market AS400 skillsets is definitely in the toilet compared with five
> > years ago.
>
> Maybe it's just weeding out those who can and those who say they can.
> the former is much too prevalent these days... not just in the iSeries
> world.
I'm not sure why you would interpret falling contract rates along with
much greater required skill sets in that way, but I suppose it is one
interpretation.
> >> And existing ones keep buying new AS400s every 2-3 years. :)
>
> >> I would say less than 1% of my customers go off the AS400, and not to
> >> the tech guy's will.. usually upper managment that doesn't have a clue.
>
> > I always laugh at techies saying that upper management doesn't have a
> > clue. If *you* had a clue, you'd be in upper management. It's far
> > harder than it looks.
>
> I'm sure it is.. I guess running my own company for over 15 years with
> over 3000 current customers (both software and consulting) doesn't count
> compared to the title of CIO, Program Manager, DBA, etc...
Well, sincere congratulations on continuing to enjoy a great iSeries
consulting career. There are a couple of garages in my area
specializing in Packard and Hudson and Studebaker repairs, and they
seem to be doing lucrative business, too.
Bradley V. Stone
> Well, sincere congratulations on continuing to enjoy a great iSeries
> consulting career. There are a couple of garages in my area
> specializing in Packard and Hudson and Studebaker repairs, and they
> seem to be doing lucrative business, too.
Now that IS funny. do you hang out on alt.cars.studebaker to just to
tell them how outdated their vehicles are and how great your toyota
hybrid is compared to them? :)
Best wishes, Johnathan.
Brad
www.bvstools.com
Ryan
Come on kids...lets keep the flames at a minimum here..
Lets all face it IBM has priced themselves right out of the market.
They are quickly being replaced by oracle on linux and unix installs.
That being said, there is ALWAYS going to be jobs out there for old
school IBM guys. Look the the job postings on your favorite website
and see how much an admin with DB2 experience can make. All the young
guys out there are shooting at the linux boxes because its the most
fun (c'mon we've all seen the pictures of the offices that .coms like
yahoo and google have, who WOULDNT want to work in a place like that?)
If you want to be one of The few guys out there that still knows this
stuff, go iBM, else: go linux.
thegman
> Come on kids...lets keep the flames at a minimum here..
>
> Lets all face it IBM has priced themselves right out of the market.
> They are quickly being replaced by oracle on linux and unix installs.
>
> That being said, there is ALWAYS going to be jobs out there for old
> school IBM guys. Look the the job postings on your favorite website
> and see how much an admin with DB2 experience can make. All the young
> guys out there are shooting at the linux boxes because its the most
> fun (c'mon we've all seen the pictures of the offices that .coms like
> yahoo and google have, who WOULDNT want to work in a place like that?)
>
> If you want to be one of The few guys out there that still knows this
> stuff, go iBM, else: go linux.
I think we can all agree that selling iSeries kit is more difficult
than it was, against the onslaught of Linux/x86 kit, and even Sun is
extremely price competitive now.
However, I think there is a lot of merit to having rare skills, as
opposed to very commonplace ones, as quite simply, you can command
more money if the employers don't have anywhere else to turn. A very
mercenary attitude I know, and of course there are fewer employers out
there wanting AS/400 skills than Linux.
On the whole though, I agree entirely with Bradley when he says that
it's best to learn programming and computers without tying yourself
into particular platforms or languages. It's not just because you may
find your skills unrequired at some point, but we all get bored, and
we may want to change our career paths because we want to, not because
we have to.
The iSeries may not be sexy, but I'd hate to work for a company that
set IT policy based on that reason.
