LANSA?
Douglas Arnold
considering purchasing LANSA to develop a browser-based, transaction
processing application. Before our vendor recommended the product to us I'd
never heard of LANSA. Has anybody used the product to any extent and, if so,
what are your experiences with it; both good and bad. Specifically, my
concern is that it won't be able to handle the complex logical rules that we
implement in our business model. I really don't want to fork out the $35,000
or so and find that it will do only 25% of the application.
Any comments would be much appreciated.
Alan Seiden
help create functions quickly, but the functions can be modified in any
way you like. Do you have any specific concerns?
Alan Seiden
Glen Ford
can't build (the caveat is important). If there are then it becomes a matter
of attaching a program written in a 3rd GL e.g. RPG.
Do you have a specific situation in mind? You are aware that the business
rules can also be written in RDML as well as in the available "simple"
tests?
Since you are working in the web there are three things to be aware of:
1) The problems encountered with LANSA are usually with the ability of (RPG)
programmers to move into the 90's (or at least the 80's) with their designs.
(This is the same reason that ILE programming is thought to be so hard and
different from standard RPG).
2) L4Web is a back end focused tool. Don't expect it to do fancy web pages
with DHTML and streaming media. There are other tools out there that look
after the look and feel of your web pages. And every web designer will have
tools they prefer (mine is Notepad). What L4Web does is connect web pages to
a backend database. So, in your case, L4Web will build a set of simple
looking screens which mask a lot of complex programming. If you're releasing
it to the general public you can put the resulting code throught a WYSIWYG
design tool (Frontpage etc.) to get the "fancys". (In $ terms L4Web does the
$80/hr + designers job not the $35/hr graphic designer job).
3) Web design is CONSIDERABLY different from what you are use to doing (can
you spell CARD DECK ... do you even remember what that was?) Even L4Web
can't completely fix that (although it does try). So before you start
screaming at L4Web be sure you're not really screaming at a tool that forgot
all about 30 years of computer programming (aka the Web). Note that the
designer of the web has admitted this ... but then again he didn't really
intend the web to be used the way it is being used ... so I'm not being
negative, really I'm not ... bitchy maybe, negative no.
After 10 years of working with LANSA there are three observations I have for
you:
1) LANSA sometimes does things in the LANSA way whether it makes sense or
not. Fortunately, it usually just leaves you shaking your head rather than
swearing. (I just upgraded my apps from VB3 to VB6 so I know all about
swearing!)
2) LANSA is designed to do what I do (which is write business apps). It does
it very well (unlike a number of modern languages which have a different
focus e.g. JAVA, and C++). Then again it doesn't do things well it wasn't
designed to do (such as play games or control networks).
3) Of all the languages I use (RPG, JAVA, VB, SQL currently) the only one I
enjoy working in is LANSA (note my business focus). I tend not to be too
patient with languages that make my life difficult (or are too time
consuming). (Which is why I got into systems design and project management).
You might want to check out some of the web sites that are already using
L4Web (http://www.songfile.com , http://www.as400magazine.com ,
http://www.common.org , http://www.theriviera.com , http://www.chown.com
, www.itt-tds.com ,
www.odysseycruises.com , www.circuscircus.com are the examples they
currently admit to.) I know some of those are transaction based (songfile,
the Riveria and CircusCircus Hotels for sure).
Do you have specific situations in mind that you don't mind sharing? I'm
sure someone here will be willing to help (or e-mail me if you wish - don't
forget to eliminate the anti-spam. Both info & consult work so takes your
choice).
By the way, if you go ahead, a piece of advice.The templates are your
artificial intelligence (not just cloneable code as some have thought). It
makes sense for them to be as intelligent as possible - by YOUR definition.
The examples that are supplied are examples ONLY. Spend some time, money and
energy on writing templates that do what you need and want. It's the only
way to get the most out of LANSA. LANSA is VERY front-end focussed (design
and planning vs coding and testing). As I said earlier there's a paradigm
shift involved in going to LANSA that can be a problem internalizing.
Best of luck.
--
Glen Ford
info@nospam can-da.com (remove nospam and replace info with consult)
Can Da Software, Mississauga, ON Canada
Project Management, Systems Analysis & Design, LANSA/AS400/Windows
Development
read our models and articles at www.can-da.com
"Douglas Arnold" <daar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:ei1a6.2157$cN.1...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Brad
transactions, but rather LANSA. As for LANSA's ability to handle complex
business rules: Even though your app is browser based, all business rules
will be handled by a native RPG program on the AS/400. LANSA centralizes
business logic in its "Repository". The rules in the Repository are
compiled into RPG programs. When your application accesses the database all
business logic will be performed and the results will be available to send
to the browser. Since this is done on the server, its very fast. I've used
LANSA for the Web many times and would not want to use anything else on the
AS/400.
Bob Springston
b...@thinplex.com
Douglas Arnold <daar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:ei1a6.2157$cN.1...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Jonathan Tyler
I work for an AS/400 e-business company.
I think your concerns are real.
We're working with a customer ($2BN turnover) who are using this tool to do
their business logic and presentation. It cannot cope. Their developers
struggle to produce things in a reasonable timescale. We're also working
with another customer that uses it without too many problems.
This first customer has decided to ditch LANSA and go to FreeStyle-400 which
is a pure RPG-based tool.
If you have concerns then let the proof of the pudding... Why not take a
free trial of both LANSA (if they'll let you take a free trial, of course)
and FreeStyle-400.
If you haven't heard of FreeStyle-400 then take a read of an independent
review at www.400times.co.uk/products.htm.
Douglas Arnold wrote in message ...
Eric Chabot
your database is correctly defined...
The only thing that is hard to work with is the report fonctionality. If
you need a lot of reports, you should consider writing them in another
language. But for the core of your application, I'm sure LANSA will satisfy
your needs...
If you need a tool to transport objects from an environment to another (from
development to production, for example), you should consider IAM (Integrated
Application Manager) by Chrono-Logic. If you need more information about
IAM, you could write to chrono...@sympatico.ca .
Glen Ford
trying to learn JAVA on a 30 day trial then trying to pretend you're a
Senior JAVA programmer. Remember that you do need to learn how to program in
LANSA.
Better would be to get the sales support guy to code an example of your app
for you.
By the way, LANSA is RPG based as well. However, because it is a
generation/level away from RPG it is MUCH faster to develop on it than any
type of RPG. In other words anything RPG or RPG based generators can do
LANSA can do.
If the programmers are having a struggle to produce code in a reasonable
timescale (say 1/4 - 1/2 of the time it takes in RPG) then they are probably
either:
a) writing RPG still.
b) haven't done their homework (i.e. setting up the LANSA repository,
templates etc.).
--
Glen Ford
info@nospam can-da.com (remove nospam and replace info with consult)
Can Da Software, Mississauga, ON Canada
Project Management, Systems Analysis & Design, LANSA/AS400/Windows
Development
read our models and articles at www.can-da.com
"Jonathan Tyler" <jonatha...@removethis.e-400.co.uk> wrote in message
news:980000345.6432.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
Glen Ford
Those who absolutely love it for its capabilities and those who hate it for
another reason.
You'll find that will accurately represent the response you'll get from your
programmers if you go ahead.
If you are really worried try either:
a) posting the complex rule(s) you are concerned about. I'm sure there are
more than a few of us that will offer free consulting support (I seem to be
doing nothing but lately but that's another tale :<).
b) asking the LANSA sales support rep (via your sales rep) to prove it can
handle it.
Best of luck.
--
Glen Ford
info@nospam can-da.com (remove nospam and replace info with consult)
Can Da Software, Mississauga, ON Canada
Project Management, Systems Analysis & Design, LANSA/AS400/Windows
Development
read our models and articles at www.can-da.com
"Douglas Arnold" <daar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:ei1a6.2157$cN.1...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Glen Ford
product when trashing a product.
--
Glen Ford
info@nospam can-da.com (remove nospam and replace info with consult)
Can Da Software, Mississauga, ON Canada
Project Management, Systems Analysis & Design, LANSA/AS400/Windows
Development
read our models and articles at www.can-da.com
"Jonathan Tyler" <jonatha...@removethis.e-400.co.uk> wrote in message
news:980000345.6432.0...@news.demon.co.uk...