9999!

Al

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 3:26:03 AM1/20/03

to

Finally, after a long time the 49g gave me the exact result for 9999
factorial.

I've never seen the stack operate so slow after, though.

--
Al

Samuel BERNARD

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 1:36:41 PM1/20/03

to

and the result is??? ;)

John Smith

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 3:49:21 PM1/20/03

to

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:36:41 -0500, Samuel BERNARD wrote:

Yeah, what is it?

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chris heaton

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 5:29:27 PM1/20/03

to

The problem is that it cant aproximate it into scientific notation.
THe result is almost useless unless you want to spend all day counting
the numbers or if only the last digit is important.

Joseph K. Horn

unread,

Jan 20, 2003, 6:14:40 PM1/20/03

to

> The problem is that it cant aproximate it into scientific notation.
> THe result is almost useless unless you want to spend all day counting
> the numbers or if only the last digit is important.

The SIZE command works on integers, returning the number of digits.

9999 ! DUP SIZE thus shows that 9999! is pretty close to
2.84625968E35655

-Joe-

Al

unread,

Jan 21, 2003, 1:48:52 AM1/21/03

to

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:36:41 +0100, Samuel BERNARD <hp...@free.fr> wrote:

> and the result is??? ;)

2.846259685·10^3.5655·10^4

or

2.846259680917054518906413212119868890148051401702799230794179994274411340003764443772990786757784775815884062142317528830042339940153518739052421161382716174819824199827592418289259787898124253120594659962598670656016157203603239792632873671705574197596209947972034615369811989709261127750048419884541047554464244213657330307670362882580354896746111709736957860367019107151273058728104115864056128116538532596842582599558468814643042558983664931705925171720427659740744613340005419405246230343686915405940406622782824837151203832217864462718382292389963899282722187970245938769380309462733229257055545969002787528224254434802112755901916942542902891690721909708369053987374745248337289952180236328274121704026808676921045155584056717255537201585213282903427998981844931361064038148930449962159999935967089298019033699848440466541923625842494716317896119204123310826865107135451684554093603300960721034694437798234943078062606942230268188522759205702923084312618849760656074258627944882715595683153344053442544664841689458042570946167361318760523498228632645292152942347987060334429073715868849917893258069148316885425195600617237263632397442078692464295601230628872012265295296409150830133663098273380635397290150658182257429547589439976511386554120812578868370423920876448476156900126488927159070630640966162803878404448519164379080718611237062213341541506599184387596102392671327654698616365770662643863802984805195276953619525924093090861447190739076858575593478698172073437209310482547562856777769408156407496227525499338411280928963751699021987049240561753178634693979802461973707904186832993101655415074230839317687836692369484902599960772968429397742753626311982541668153189176323483919082100014717893218422780513518173492190114624687576983537344145601312261522139117875968836736408720793700299203827919803870237207803914031236899760815284030605111670948472222487038919999344207139583698306396223207911562404425080891991431983712044559834404755675948921210149815245454359428541439084356441998422485547853216362403009844285533182925315420655123707970581639346029624769701038874220644153662673371542870078912274934068433644288984710084064160009362393526124803797529334392876439831639031277645072247926785170082666959838952615075900734921519759265919270887320259406638211880198885474826604834225645770574397312225970067193606176351357952982179429079770532728326750148802444352868164502616566283754651900617187344226043891929850607151539003110668472736013581670643786175675743918437647965813610059963868955233464878174614324357322486432679848198145843270303589550842053478849336458248259203328808902578238823326577020524897093704721021424841334246526820680673231421448385407418213962184687010835958294696523563276487047571835161687923506836627174371191572336114307012112076760869785155972184648598591864364171685089962551682091079357023111851817477501080462258552131476489749066075287708289766751495100968232968973200062239288805665803614031128546592908407803397490066495320587316494809388381619865885082738246803489786475711667989042356801830350413387573197263089790943571068779730163391808786847494363353389337358690640584841782806519627582643442925805842221294764940294862267076183298822900407239040373316820741741325165668844307933944701920890562078838758534251282095735930701819770834016381763827856253951682542664461494104471157953326237281546879408042371858742302620026422182269418862621210729777665740101837618228013685758644218586301153984371229910701009406192941322320277319395946700671369537709789777811828824244292086481613417956201747183160968766104314049795819823644580736820940402221118153005143338707660706314961610777111744805955276434833338574404021275703185152729837743592187855855279559102866445791736200722185814330997729477892372071794285775627130092398239792195758119726474264287826668235391568785727162014619224426626670840076566562580710947439874011077281166991880626872662656558334566500789030905065607463307802715853081769122377281351058452732659162621964762057143488021563081525900534372114100030303924286645720732847348171203416818632896886504828736793339844397123673508452734019630942769765268417017499075694798275782583522999431563332210743913155012445900532470268031291239229797903041758782339862237353505464264691350250395100923928658510868208807066273473320035499572039708648806604092985460700633940988583634986546613672788074876470070245879011804651829611127709060901615202211146154315831766995706097461808535939040006789287854882785093863735370390404941268461899127287156265500127083303995025787993170543188275265922581494895074663997600731692731083173588305661261478299766318807006304463242911226069193127888156622159152327045769586751282199093894268660196390448971891859747292531032248021054384104432582847283058429780416240510811032691400190056878439634150269652104892027214023216023489858882737142869533968175510628747090747371818801422348724849855819843909465170836436899430618965024328835327966719018452762055108570762620424450962332320474470783119043449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Please don't ask me to post the exact result ;)

Is the HP49 the only calculator that can give an exact result? Can other
math software even do that?

Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits.

--
Al

Axel Bodemann

unread,

Jan 21, 2003, 3:06:27 AM1/21/03

to

"Joseph K. Horn" <Joe...@jps.net> wrote in message news:<Ap%W9.3141$Sv3.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...

> The SIZE command works on integers, returning the number of digits.
>
> 9999 ! DUP SIZE thus shows that 9999! is pretty close to
> 2.84625968E35655
>
> -Joe-

unread,

Jan 21, 2003, 5:28:29 PM1/21/03

to

On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:50:51 +0100, Guenter Schink
<news2.2...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:

> 9999! has 2495 trailing zeros.

I didn't thing of the extra zeros that come from 20*50, 100, 1000 etc.

Al

unread,

Jan 21, 2003, 6:53:53 PM1/21/03

to

On 21 Jan 2003 12:22:34 +0100, Thomas Rast <t.r...@freesurf.ch> wrote:

>> Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits.
>
> How about Gjermund's Longfloat library??

Nice library, just something I need for more accurate precision.
Now I can surprise my physics professors with the degree of accuracy of my
results.

--
Al

Colin Croft

unread,

Jan 21, 2003, 9:59:12 PM1/21/03

to

Axel Bodemann wrote:
> "Joseph K. Horn" <Joe...@jps.net> wrote in message news:<Ap%W9.3141$Sv3.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>>The SIZE command works on integers, returning the number of digits.
>>
>>9999 ! DUP SIZE thus shows that 9999! is pretty close to
>>2.84625968E35655
>

> I had the same problem on the 40G - counting digits of big integers.
> Could it be that the SIZE command is different for the 40G? It seems
> only to work for matrices where it gives the dimension of the matrix.
>
> Axel

The SIZE command on the 39/40G only works on lists and matrices. There
is a command XPON which gives the size of the exponent. XPON+1 would
therefore be the number of digits.

Gérard

unread,

Jan 22, 2003, 5:59:03 AM1/22/03

to

Al <sir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<oprjdjb3ltkts43u@shawnews>...

Real Physicists only are interested at the powers of ten.

:-)

About the estimate of the exponent without SIZE, how about
looking at the log_10 ?

Gerard

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 22, 2003, 10:06:29 AM1/22/03

to

Hi Al!

> Is the HP49 the only calculator that can give an exact result? Can other
> math software even do that?

I don't know about other calculators but Mathematica or Maple can
certainly give you the exact result.

> Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits.

In Mathematica you would enter N[Pi,1000].

Greetings,
Nick.

P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the
calculator?

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 22, 2003, 10:08:32 AM1/22/03

to

ger...@perso.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard?=) wrote in message news:<4a7d9ab9.03012...@posting.google.com>...

> Al <sir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<oprjdjb3ltkts43u@shawnews>...
> > On 21 Jan 2003 12:22:34 +0100, Thomas Rast <t.r...@freesurf.ch> wrote:
> >
> > >> Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits.
> > >
> > > How about Gjermund's Longfloat library??
> >
> > Nice library, just something I need for more accurate precision.
> > Now I can surprise my physics professors with the degree of accuracy of my
> > results.
>
> Real Physicists only are interested at the powers of ten.
>
> :-)

LOL!

> About the estimate of the exponent without SIZE, how about
> looking at the log_10 ?

Or using XPON (if available)?

Greetings,
Nick.

Luc D.B.

unread,

Jan 22, 2003, 10:08:55 AM1/22/03

to

Nick Karagiaouroglou wrote:

> Hi Al!
>
>
>>Is the HP49 the only calculator that can give an exact result? Can other
>>math software even do that?
>>
>
> I don't know about other calculators but Mathematica or Maple can
> certainly give you the exact result.
>
>
>>Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits.
>>
>
> In Mathematica you would enter N[Pi,1000].

Did the same on the 48 ;-) (with a little bit of ML programming)

Al

unread,

Jan 22, 2003, 7:20:19 PM1/22/03

to

On 22 Jan 2003 07:06:29 -0800, Nick Karagiaouroglou <nk@imos-
consulting.com> wrote:

> P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the
> calculator?

Actually I don't know, I let it run after dinner until I came back
from work next day, which was just before dinner.

It did within 24 hours. How do I time how long it takes to do
a calculation?

--
Al

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 23, 2003, 6:43:25 AM1/23/03

to

"Luc D.B." <yenatou...@pasdespam.com> wrote in message news:<3E2EB407...@pasdespam.com>...

Hi Luc!

You are heading for Mathematica48? ;-)

Greetings,
Nick.

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 23, 2003, 6:49:34 AM1/23/03

to

Hi Al!

Al <sir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<oprjfe75uikts43u@shawnews>...

> On 22 Jan 2003 07:06:29 -0800, Nick Karagiaouroglou <nk@imos-
> consulting.com> wrote:
>
> > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the
> > calculator?
>
> Actually I don't know, I let it run after dinner until I came back
> from work next day, which was just before dinner.

Poor fella HP49G, had to crunch on numbers while the rest of the
family was having dinner. Hope that you gave it its reward next
morning. (A juicy set of new batteries, yummy! ;-))

> It did within 24 hours. How do I time how long it takes to do
> a calculation?

You can use the command TEVAL. In this case you could for example
enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >>, and then press
[TEVAL]. The program would be evaluated, and the result of 9999! would
be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the
task would be returned on stack level 1.

Sleepy greetings,
Nick.

Al

unread,

Jan 24, 2003, 9:34:58 PM1/24/03

to

On 23 Jan 2003 03:49:34 -0800, Nick Karagiaouroglou <nk@imos-
consulting.com> wrote:

> You can use the command TEVAL. In this case you could for example
> enter the number 9999, then enter the program << ! >>, and then press
> [TEVAL]. The program would be evaluated, and the result of 9999! would
> be returned on stack level 2. The time in seconds to accomplish the
> task would be returned on stack level 1.

Ok thanks, I'll check how long it will take this time.

--
Al

Peter Geelhoed

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 2:56:47 AM1/26/03

to

Paul Floyd schreef:

> The last digit is zero. In fact, I'd estimate that around the last 1999
> digits are zeros (since each element in the factorial ending in a 0 adds
> one zero, and each pair ending in 2 and 5 adds another zero, that makes
> 2 zeros per 10 elements).

You have the right idea but you need to count *all* factors of 5 (EG 25
contributes 2 fives ), since there are always more factors of 2 than 5 you can
count fives
so
5 gives 1999 zeros
25 gives an additional 399
125 gives 79 more
625 gives 15
3125 gives another 3
so the exact number of zeros at the end of 9999! is 2495

Peter

Al

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 6:14:19 AM1/26/03

to

On 23 Jan 2003 03:49:34 -0800, Nick Karagiaouroglou <nk@imos-
consulting.com> wrote:

>> > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the
>> > calculator?

I timed it, it didn't take that long:

112623.1127 seconds

Let's see if anyone can beat that ;)

Note that is equal to 1877.05 minutes, or 31.28 hours.
I wish I had a printer to pring the result. Is there anyway to
'word wrap' the line in the text viewer?

--
Al

Samuel Nyall Stearley

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 11:49:45 AM1/26/03

to

And does this take display time into acount?

-Samuel

n...@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) wrote in message news:<cd9ca36b.03012...@posting.google.com>...

ivan senji

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 5:43:41 PM1/26/03

to

> > > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the
> > > calculator?

I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35 minutes
= 2.8556hours!
Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because
XPON doesn't
work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)?

Al

unread,

Jan 26, 2003, 6:33:16 PM1/26/03

to

On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 23:43:41 +0100, ivan senji <ivan....@public.srce.hr>
wrote:

> I calculated 9999! on HP40G and it took 10280.7853 seconds = 171.35
> minutes
> = 2.8556hours!
> Does anyone have an idea how to get the number of digits on hp40g because
> XPON doesn't
> work for souch big numbers (it returns 499)?

Ok something must be wrong with my calc because mine took 10 times as
long...

Ah I know why, I didn't use the calculator, I used the emulator, and then I
closed
it for a while and continue the calculation later, but the emulator thought
that it
was calculating throughout the whole time it wasn't even running. It gets
its clock
from the system clock of the pc, which does advance independant of the
emulator.

I was wondering how mine could have taken 30 something hours when the real
49g
did within 24 hours.

--
Al

Zeljko Vrba

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 1:55:02 AM1/27/03

to

Look into logarithms.

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 6:39:45 AM1/27/03

to

Al <sir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<oprjlth3mvkts43u@shawnews>...

> On 23 Jan 2003 03:49:34 -0800, Nick Karagiaouroglou <nk@imos-
> consulting.com> wrote:
>
> >> > P.S. BTW, how long did the calculation of 9999! take on the
> >> > calculator?
>
> I timed it, it didn't take that long:
>
> 112623.1127 seconds
>
> Let's see if anyone can beat that ;)
>
>
> Note that is equal to 1877.05 minutes, or 31.28 hours.

Al, I think in such cases it would be better to give the number of
battery sets used. ;-)

> I wish I had a printer to pring the result. Is there anyway to
> 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer?

Only thing I can think of:
<< ->STR ""
-> str wordwrapstr
<<
WHILE
str SIZE 30 > @Number of chars per line = 30. Change as you
wish.
REPEAT
'wordwrapstr'
str 1 30 SUB STO+
'wordwrapstr'
"
" STO+ @Add new line char num 10
str 31 OVER SIZE SUB
'str' STO
END
wordwrapstr str +
>>
>>

Greetings,
Nick.

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 6:41:57 AM1/27/03

to

Hi Samuel!

Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to
display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here?

Greetings,
Nick.

sste...@yahoo.com (Samuel Nyall Stearley) wrote in message news:<551a73ee.0301...@posting.google.com>...

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 6:42:58 AM1/27/03

to

"ivan senji" <ivan....@public.srce.hr> wrote in message news:<b11o3h$g2i$1...@bagan.srce.hr>...

Ivan, is that a turbo charged HP40?

Greetings,
Nick.

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 6:45:14 AM1/27/03

to

"ivan senji" <ivan....@public.srce.hr> wrote in message news:<b11o3h$g2i$1...@bagan.srce.hr>...

Oh, and about number of digits, ->STR SIZE could work.

Greetings,
Nick

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 6:48:10 AM1/27/03

to

Al <sir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<oprjmrpo1mkts43u@shawnews>...

Even 24 hours are too much compared to the 3 hours that ivan reported.
Is the HP40 so much faster?

Greetings,
Nick.

Samuel Stearley

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 12:25:30 PM1/27/03

to

> Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to
> display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here?

I doubt you're wrong :) I was curious because on my ti89 something
like 299! (This is the maximum you can do with a factorial) will take
about two seconds to calculate but another 12 seconds to display. I
have written a routine in 68k assembly that can convert the result of
299! to text in about a third of a second.

Anyways I'm impressed the 49g can do 9999!

-Samuel
www.calvin.edu/~sstear70/

Thomas Rast

unread,

Jan 27, 2003, 2:37:33 PM1/27/03

to

n...@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) writes:

> Yes, it does, but as the calculation time is so long, the time to
> display the beast should be of minor importance. Or am I wrong here?

If you have a look at what TEVAL decompiles to, no it doesn't. The
display code is buried somewhere in the System Outer Loop (SOL), but
TEVAL has to finish before control returns to the SOL.

However it indeed seems to be of minor importance. I put a ZINT of
about 35000 1's on the stack (agreed, that's only *close* to the test
case, but far easier to construct...) and then ran

::
' :: ClrDAsOK ?DispStack ;
xTEVAL
;

and got 0.4309 seconds.

unread,

Jan 28, 2003, 6:34:53 AM1/28/03

to

n...@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) wrote in message news:<cd9ca36b.0301...@posting.google.com>...

The speed is ok: On my 40G it took 10320.7 seconds (2h 52min) to get
the result.
Unfortunately, up to now I didn't find an easy way to show the number
of digits either...

Regards
Axel

Nick Karagiaouroglou

unread,

Jan 28, 2003, 6:41:35 AM1/28/03

to

Bruce Horrocks <b...@granby.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<omUmTRFF...@granby.demon.co.uk>...

> In message <cd9ca36b.03012...@posting.google.com>, Nick
> Karagiaouroglou <n...@imos-consulting.com> writes
> >Oh, and about number of digits, ->STR SIZE could work.
>
> No strings and therefore no string commands on the 39 and 40.
>
> Regards,

What? Oh no! Then the only thing I can think of is
sum(log(n),n=1,9999). Or do these calcs have also no sums?

Greetings,
Nick.

Wolfgang Rautenberg

unread,

Jan 28, 2003, 7:58:37 AM1/28/03

to

Al wrote:
> ... Is there any way to 'word wrap' the line in the text viewer?

The following is a very fast argument protected string viewer for very
long strings (like "3.1415..." or the 9999! string) which do not contain
linebreaks (i.e. newline characters). It displays pi to 500 decimals in
less than .3 sec in full screen display which can nicely be scrolled
vertically. Each filled line has 32 characters. 50 bytes, CRC ACB6h.
::
DUPTYPECSTR?
NcaseTYPEERR
NULL$SWAP
BEGIN
DUPONE BINT32 SUB$ NEWLINE$&$ ROTSWAP
!append$SWAP BINT33 LAST$ DUPNULL$?
UNTIL
DROPFALSE SWAP
ViewStrObject
DROP
;

It works for any strings, but may insert some additional linebreaks. If
you want it as a binary (in case you don't have extable) mail to me.

- Wolfgang

PS. This is a good and not too difficult example for those who want to
learn SysRPL. Just put in a xHALT right after BEGIN and another one just
after UNTIL, because these two commands affect the return stack. When
reaching UNTIL in debugging, press CONT !

Jordi Hidalgo

unread,

Jan 28, 2003, 11:13:20 AM1/28/03

to

Hello Axel,

> Unfortunately, up to now I didn't find an easy way to show the number
> of digits either...

Sorry, I've had no time to reply your email.

After getting the integer in the EQW, press HOME and [INFO]. Now you know
the object's size. The number of digits is: ( Size * 2 ) - 11

I'll answer the other questions by email.

Regards,

Jordi Hidalgo
HPCC #1046

Veli-Pekka Nousiainen

unread,

Jan 29, 2003, 12:30:38 AM1/29/03

to

"Samuel Stearley" <sste...@calvin.edu> wrote in message
news:5ae5321a.03012...@posting.google.com...

Maybe you should buy a HP 49G ???
:-D
VPN

Al

unread,

Jan 29, 2003, 1:08:55 PM1/29/03

to

On 28 Jan 2003 03:34:53 -0800, Axel Bodemann <bode...@web.de> wrote:

> The speed is ok: On my 40G it took 10320.7 seconds (2h 52min) to get
> the result.

Believe it or not, it took 12275.4935 to get the result on the HP 49G.
That's quite a big difference, 3.40 hours compared to 2h 52min.

Does anyone else venture to try it on a 49G?

--
Al

Samuel Nyall Stearley

unread,

Jan 29, 2003, 1:52:30 PM1/29/03

to

> Maybe you should buy a HP 49G ???
> :-D
> VPN

I bought one when hp was offering the $75 dollar rebate.

-Samuel

Axel Bodemann

unread,

Jan 29, 2003, 5:37:46 PM1/29/03

to

n...@imos-consulting.com (Nick Karagiaouroglou) wrote in message news:

> What? Oh no! Then the only thing I can think of is

> sum(log(n),n=1,9999). Or do these calcs have also no sums?
>
> Greetings,
> Nick.

Sum(x=1,9999,Log(x)) works fine on the 40G: in about 3 1/2 minutes you
get the answer of 35655.45... which means 9999! has 35656 digits. But
- as Jordi posted (message #41) - the info screen at the CAS history
gives the answer much faster.

Another interesting task would be to pick up the n-th digit of long
integers as the above discussed.

Regards
Axel

Al

unread,

Jan 29, 2003, 9:47:04 PM1/29/03

to

Hey the windows calculator can do 99999!, not exact solution,
but it gives the correct scientific exponent. It even pops up a
nice box saying that the calculation might take a while, several
of those boxes actually.

Anyway, the result is 2.8242294079603478742934215780245e+456568.

Didn't take too long either, under a minute.

--
Al

Scott Hemphill

unread,

Jan 30, 2003, 11:56:51 AM1/30/03

to

Al <sir...@hotmail.com> writes:

unread,

Feb 5, 2003, 8:55:49 AM2/5/03

to

Samuel Nyall Stearley wrote:

> And does [using TEVAL] take display time into account?

The screen is actually redrawn only after TEVAL
exits back to the eternal "system outer loop"
where screen display actually occurs, so TEVAL does not,
in general, time the normal final updating of the display,
although any waiting for user keypresses will of course
run up the clock, just as does a taxi meter
while the vehicle is stuck in traffic :)

If you were to "type ahead" to keep the kestroke buffer
from emptying, the screen would not even be redrawn at all,
so there is something to be said for considering that
display redrawing is done in "free time," not in "working time"
(this will of course be objected to by the "blue-collar"
internal routines of the OS, once they get unionized :)

By the way, TEVAL also times its own contribution
to using up time while timing everything else,
just like an hourly worker who clocks in just before
starting the day by taking a magazine into the bathroom :)

Say, am I getting paid for my time spent writing this post?

If so, it's a useful demonstration of the quantum mechanical
assertion that measurements are affected just by taking them.

[r->] [OFF]

.

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

John H Meyers

unread,

Feb 5, 2003, 9:12:52 AM2/5/03

to

Another long string (or any object) viewer:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3D6B55BA.476C4207%40miu.edu

Although it's a longer program (mostly UserRPL, which annoys WR :)
it has some advantages, in that it doesn't copy the string,
so you can display a string which even already almost fills memory;
it also starts displaying immediately, no matter how large the string,
and it also displays non-strings, by virtue of automatic decompilation.

This was actually my first HP48 series program,
although "full screen" and "scroll-back" were added much later.

Wolfgang Rautenberg

unread,

Feb 5, 2003, 10:23:50 AM2/5/03

to

John H Meyers wrote:
> Another long string (or any object) viewer:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3D6B55BA.476C4207%40miu.edu
> Although it's a longer program (mostly UserRPL, which annoys WR :)

That's not true :-) I like UsrRPL. I carefully studied some of your
programs and those of JKH before I dared to post here. And COMPOSE was
entirely programmed in UsrRPL before Raymond started to translate it
into SysRPL. Ask him, 5000 bytes UsrRPL :-)

I remember that JKH often underlined how important it may be to avoid
local variables to fasten the program. I always tried to find out who
are the most experienced experts, looked with deep respect on these
(one of these are you) and only then tried to find my own way. There
are others who believe that the art of programming was put them into
the cradle. Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned, but this was my way...

- Wolfgang

Veli-Pekka Nousiainen

unread,

Feb 5, 2003, 12:09:23 PM2/5/03

to

"John H Meyers" <jhme...@miu.edu> wrote in message
news:3E4117E5...@miu.edu...

> Samuel Nyall Stearley wrote:
>
> > And does [using TEVAL] take display time into account?
>
> The screen is actually redrawn only after TEVAL
> exits back to the eternal "system outer loop"

X
LOL
VPN

Al. Andreou

unread,

Feb 13, 2003, 12:30:20 PM2/13/03

to

In article <oprjb7vovtkts43u@shawnews>, Al wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:36:41 +0100, Samuel BERNARD <hp...@free.fr> wrote:
>
> Please don't ask me to post the exact result ;)
>
> Is the HP49 the only calculator that can give an exact result? Can other
> math software even do that?
>
> Now I gotta find a way to approximate pi to like 1000 digits.

Using calc (available from somewhere under http://www.isthe.com/) you can calculate 9999! in
the blink of an eye (if it takes you 27 seconds to blink). calc also has a program/script for
calculating pi to an arbitrary number of digits. It runs under UNIX (Cygwin works too, if I
am not mistaken).

Regarding the number of digits, one can use ceiling(log(N)) with a possible error of +/- 1
(supposing, of course, that log(X) = ln(X)/ln(10)).

--
Alexandros Andreou, ee4299 at ee.teiath.gr.
Undergraduate student, Department of Electronics, TEI of Athens.

Al. Andreou

unread,

Feb 13, 2003, 12:30:25 PM2/13/03

to

In article <e126e279.0301...@posting.google.com>, Axel Bodemann wrote:
>
> Another interesting task would be to pick up the n-th digit of long
> integers as the above discussed.

This comes with simple arithmetic. EVAL the following, where X is the bignum and
N is the place of the digit, starting from 1 for the monads:
3: X
2: N
1: << 1 - 10 SWAP ^ / FLOOR 10 / 1 MOD 10 * >>

Al. Andreou

unread,

Feb 13, 2003, 12:33:40 PM2/13/03

to

In article <slrnb4njsa...@bourreau.cachot>, Al. Andreou wrote:
>
> Using calc (available from somewhere under http://www.isthe.com/) you can calculate 9999! in
> the blink of an eye (if it takes you 27 seconds to blink). calc also has a program/script for

Forgot to note that I'm not using a 2.54 GHz machine; I'm on a 143 MHz CPU.

Al

unread,

Feb 13, 2003, 7:44:57 PM2/13/03

to

"Al. Andreou" <ee4...@ee.teiath.gr> wrote in message
news:slrnb4nlv8...@bourreau.cachot...

> In article <slrnb4njsa...@bourreau.cachot>, Al. Andreou wrote:
> >
> > Using calc (available from somewhere under http://www.isthe.com/) you
can calculate 9999! in
> > the blink of an eye (if it takes you 27 seconds to blink). calc also has
a program/script for
>
> Forgot to note that I'm not using a 2.54 GHz machine; I'm on a 143 MHz
CPU.

I was wondering why it would take so long, mine does it in just under a
second with Maple 8 ;)

rcobo

unread,

Feb 14, 2003, 4:01:22 AM2/14/03

to

> I was wondering why it would take so long, mine does it in just under a
> second with Maple 8 ;)

well, my pocket PDA asistant does 9999! in 1.46 seconds

showtime:true;
9999!;
Evaluation took 1.46 seconds (1.48 elapse)

it is a sharp zaurus and it runs maxima ;)

Axel Bodemann

unread,

Feb 14, 2003, 7:59:44 AM2/14/03

to

"Al. Andreou" <ee4...@ee.teiath.gr> wrote in message news:<slrnb4nln3...@bourreau.cachot>...

> In article <e126e279.0301...@posting.google.com>, Axel Bodemann wrote:
> >
> > Another interesting task would be to pick up the n-th digit of long
> > integers as the above discussed.
>
> This comes with simple arithmetic. EVAL the following, where X is the bignum and
> N is the place of the digit, starting from 1 for the monads:
> 3: X
> 2: N
> 1: << 1 - 10 SWAP ^ / FLOOR 10 / 1 MOD 10 * >>

MOD does not work for integers, it accepts real numbers (at least on
my 40G). Hence, large integers will be filled up with zeros and you
get 0 as remainder.
However:

FLOOR(x/10^(n-1)) - FLOOR(x/10^n)*10

works fine (n defined as above: n-th digit "from the right side" of
the number)

Thanks and best regards
Axel

Al. Andreou

unread,

Feb 14, 2003, 4:56:56 PM2/14/03

to

Axel, damn you for making me use the 40G with the sticky plastic keys and
the stinky algebraic format :-) . I noticed, though, that it is a pretty
cool calculator for highschool (and even entry-level university/college)
students.

In article <e126e279.03021...@posting.google.com>, Axel Bodemann wrote:
> MOD does not work for integers, it accepts real numbers (at least on
> my 40G). Hence, large integers will be filled up with zeros and you
> get 0 as remainder.

You are wrong. MOD is supposed and does work on integers, and floating numbers
(at least in the way I need it to) as it should.
3 MOD 2 == 1
3.1 MOD 1 == .1

Try the formula:

(FLOOR(X/10^(N-1))/10 MOD 1) * 10

> However:
>
> FLOOR(x/10^(n-1)) - FLOOR(x/10^n)*10
>
> works fine (n defined as above: n-th digit "from the right side" of
> the number)

This works too. I think that mine is more efficient, though.

Anyway ;-) . I have one question: is there a way to make the Alpha key on
the 40G ``sticky''? What I mean is pressing it once or twice and having it
lock Alpha mode, as in the 49G.

Thanks everyone who contributed in this thread for waking my /dev/brain up.

Axel Bodemann

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Feb 15, 2003, 6:16:36 AM2/15/03

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"Al. Andreou" <ee4...@ee.teiath.gr> wrote in message news:<slrnb4qh3r...@bourreau.cachot>...

> ...

> You are wrong. MOD is supposed and does work on integers, and floating numbers
> (at least in the way I need it to) as it should.
> 3 MOD 2 == 1
> 3.1 MOD 1 == .1
>
> Try the formula:
>
> (FLOOR(X/10^(N-1))/10 MOD 1) * 10

Sorry, it doesn't work on my 40G, try this example:
99! has 156 digits. The 20-th digit (from the left) ist 1, so your N
would be 137. Now check the result of your formula!

> Anyway ;-) . I have one question: is there a way to make the Alpha key on
> the 40G ``sticky''? What I mean is pressing it once or twice and having it
> lock Alpha mode, as in the 49G.

I was annoyed about that behaviour, too. At least in the home screen,
there seems to be no way to lock that key. In the CAS mode, there is a
trick which told me Jordi:

> "A tip to lock alpha entry mode in the EQW: VARS [NEW] [A...Z] ON
> ALPHA ON."
>
> On the home screen, there's no trick; aside from implementing it
> with an aplet (very easy in SysRPL).
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi Hidalgo

Axel

Veli-Pekka Nousiainen

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Feb 15, 2003, 7:07:13 AM2/15/03

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Which Zaurus? Give an URL! How much $$$?
What is Maxima? $$$??
VPN
"rcobo" <rc...@eng.morgan.edu> wrote in message
news:639cb51.03021...@posting.google.com...

Al. Andreou

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Feb 15, 2003, 10:12:29 AM2/15/03

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In article <e126e279.03021...@posting.google.com>, Axel Bodemann wrote:
>

> Sorry, it doesn't work on my 40G, try this example:
> 99! has 156 digits. The 20-th digit (from the left) ist 1, so your N
> would be 137. Now check the result of your formula!

I checked both, and both fail (return 0). I had tested mine with 11! to
just sanity-check it. I think that's because 11! is 39916800, while 99!
is 9.33262154439E155; I blame the scientific notation. I have tested
with all numeric modes.

Al

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Feb 15, 2003, 12:36:41 PM2/15/03

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"rcobo" <rc...@eng.morgan.edu> wrote in message
news:639cb51.03021...@posting.google.com...

Exact result?

rcobo

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Feb 16, 2003, 3:06:17 AM2/16/03

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hello,

i guess it is exact. i haven't bothered verifying it. if you want i
can output the result to a file (a lot of numbers) and post it here.
it is the same program as the PC but compiled for a different
processor. or you can download the PC software for free to make sure
the answer is exact :)

http://maxima.sourceforge.net/

regards

"Al" <sir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<JUu3a.1824$na.5...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>...

rcobo

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Feb 16, 2003, 3:18:54 AM2/16/03

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hi VPN,

zaurus is a PDA that came out in 2002. it is made by sharp co.

http://www.myzaurus.com/

there are a lot of software available because it runs linux (many
math/scientific software runs on the zaurus by now).

it looks like www.amazon.com sells it for $300

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000063D6E/qid=1045383201/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-1601350-9499806?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

maxima is a program:

http://maxima.sourceforge.net/

regards

"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP...@welho.com> wrote in message news:<b2lai7$pts$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>...

Axel Bodemann

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Feb 16, 2003, 5:50:57 AM2/16/03

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"Al. Andreou" <ee4...@ee.teiath.gr> wrote in message news:<slrnb4sme6...@bourreau.cachot>...

> I checked both, and both fail (return 0). I had tested mine with 11! to
> just sanity-check it. I think that's because 11! is 39916800, while 99!
> is 9.33262154439E155; I blame the scientific notation. I have tested
> with all numeric modes.

Hi Al,
my formula works well in CAS mode. In the HOME screen, you must use XQ
to get the exact integer. Try in the HOME screen: 99! vs XQ(99)!

Regards
Axel

Al

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Feb 17, 2003, 4:48:27 AM2/17/03

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I'll take your word for it :)

Veli-Pekka Nousiainen

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Feb 18, 2003, 10:32:28 AM2/18/03

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Hi, rcobo!

"rcobo" <rc...@eng.morgan.edu> wrote in message
news:639cb51.03021...@posting.google.com...

> hi VPN,
>
> zaurus is a PDA that came out in 2002. it is made by sharp co.
>
> http://www.myzaurus.com/

X
But is there not a true VGA Zaurus with a small keyboard?
Do you know the dimensions and weight (How many Euros?)
I think I may by one - unless HP truly makes a superfast calc.
VPN

rcobo

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Feb 19, 2003, 2:03:05 AM2/19/03

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"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <DROP...@welho.com> wrote in message news:<b2tjmt$d8g$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>...

> But is there not a true VGA Zaurus with a small keyboard?
> Do you know the dimensions and weight (How many Euros?)
> I think I may by one - unless HP truly makes a superfast calc.
> VPN

yes, but it is sold in japan. they did a small mistake by putting less
SDRAM. not recomended. if anybody is interested, i know how you can
get the sl-5500 new for $229 through Sharp.

regards

PS: the sttrong-arm processor (sl-5500) will not be produced any more.
they'll produce the xcale only. anyway there is a lot of snowball
effect in the linux pda.

Al. Andreou

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Feb 19, 2003, 2:13:55 PM2/19/03

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In article <e126e279.0302...@posting.google.com>, Axel Bodemann wrote:
>
> Hi Al,
> my formula works well in CAS mode. In the HOME screen, you must use XQ
> to get the exact integer. Try in the HOME screen: 99! vs XQ(99)!

Yes! XQ does the job (and is a very useful function!). I checked both functions:

F1(X) = FLOOR(XQ(X)/10^(N-1)) - 10 * FLOOR(XQ(X)/10^N)
F2(X) = FLOOR(XQ(X)/10^(N-1)) / 10 MOD 1 * 10

and then 156 \|> N .

Then I have:
F1(99!)
9
F2(99!)
9

so they both work. What was the problem you were having with my method?

Oh, and I said that my function is more efficient because I need to evaluate
X only one and also use MOD (from the things I was reading about modular
arithmetic and factorization I got the impression that MOD can be implemented
with very fast routines).

Tschuesz!

Alan Turner

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Feb 20, 2003, 1:01:19 PM2/20/03

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Hi

In case anyone was wondering...

9999!
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~aturner/f9999.txt

1000000th fibonacci number:
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~aturner/1000000th.pdf

These haven't been carefully checked for correctness :)

Cheers,
Alan

kousu...@gmail.com

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Jun 7, 2020, 8:39:38 AM6/7/20

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now we can get the answer with this smart phone