hp 49g+, ROM 2.01 build 83, keyboard and "try to recover memory"
Heiko Arnemann
I got a replacement calc today.
CM515... delivered with ROM 1.23.
After inserting the batteries, I got
the well known "try to recover memory?".
I was not possible to get the calc alive
by choosing "NO". I have tried
further resets with the pinhole and
by ON-hold F1-hold F6,
without success.
Quitting the question with "Yes" made
it alive, but having nothing intersting to explore.
I think, the first user of this calc has had the
same problem; that is, why I got this replacement calc :-( :-)
Another issue are ramshackle ALPHA and LS-key,
and movement of the F5 and F4-keys when
pressing F6. Hey, what a quality :-(
HP should change the brand name
when delivering this low cost s... (no smiley here).
What should the students think when investing
quite a lot money?
_________
Than I made some keyboard test with a replacement calc
*fast typing
111222333 [ENTER]
444555666 ...
Within about 30 s testing, after typing
777888999
I got:
777896787
I am wondering a lot!
before this strange result I have had some missing
keystrokes for 7, 8 and 9.
Any comments appreachiated.
I switched back to build 80
and up to now (very short experiance)
I have had no problem.
Some libraries has been gone after
the "downgrade". This time it was
SDIAG :-(
Good news:
The required keyforce is reduced to
1.3 to 1.5 N. Except the ON-key which
requires 2.0 N (take care to press the
upper edge of the keys while placing the
calc on a ballance).
The required keyforce is very close
to my HP 48GX, which always good
for a baseline :-)
Regards
Heiko
A.L.
<Heiko.A...@gmx.de> wrote:
> lore.
>
>Another issue are ramshackle ALPHA and LS-key,
>and movement of the F5 and F4-keys when
>pressing F6. Hey, what a quality :-(
>HP should change the brand name
>when delivering this low cost s... (no smiley here).
>What should the students think when investing
>quite a lot money?
It is interesting that knowing all problems about keyboard etc. people
are still buying this calculator. Maybe this is the same reason why
some woman marry alcoholic husband, get beaten, divorce and then do
the same again?... Psychologists have a theory that explains this
behavior...
A.L.
Jean-Yves Avenard
> Hello together,
> I got a replacement calc today.
> CM515... delivered with ROM 1.23.
>
> After inserting the batteries, I got
> the well known "try to recover memory?".
> I was not possible to get the calc alive
> by choosing "NO". I have tried
> further resets with the pinhole and
> by ON-hold F1-hold F6,
> without success.
> Quitting the question with "Yes" made
> it alive, but having nothing intersting to explore.
I found that too. you have to hit any other key for NO to work the first
time. No idea why.. On the other hand, a newbie is likely to hit YES...
> I switched back to build 80
> and up to now (very short experiance)
> I have had no problem.
> Some libraries has been gone after
> the "downgrade". This time it was
> SDIAG :-(
Build 80 and 83 are identical with those differences:
-build 80: 75ms anti keybounce, 83 150ms
-build 80: shows as a beta ROM, 83 shows as C
that's it.
Jean-Yves
David
and SOON that something would get better. I am not sure what or how soon but
after 25+ years of watching it is clear HP issues new calculators around
March-April and around September.
So if HP has been listening the earliest change would be expected in April.
Personally I don't think HP does listen anymore. It has lost the will to
fight in the calculator field and is heavily reliant on Chinese suppliers
developing something that could be rebadged as an HP machine. Hence the
keyboard problem will have to wait until they not HP is ready to move on.
"A.L." <wonle...@grzegzulka.com> wrote in message
news:ojajq1deilk7t0he5...@4ax.com...
Brother-Peter
news:40tr6rF...@individual.net...
That's it?
KEYTIME->
150_ms
DROP
75_ms ->KEYTIME
Why not let the people choose?
Brother-Peter
news:docdhv$1qf$1...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> On the 4 Dec 2005 Joe Horn reported in this newsgroup that there was hope
> and SOON that something would get better. I am not sure what or how soon
> but after 25+ years of watching it is clear HP issues new calculators
> around March-April and around September.
>
> So if HP has been listening the earliest change would be expected in
> April. Personally I don't think HP does listen anymore. It has lost the
> will to fight in the calculator field and is heavily reliant on Chinese
> suppliers developing something that could be rebadged as an HP machine.
> Hence the > keyboard problem will have to wait until they not HP is ready
> to move on.
Noooooooo!
you stole my rumours suprise!
Aaaaarrrrggghhh!
Brother-Peter
PS: I'll B back on 1st of April :-P
John H Meyers
> HP is heavily reliant on Chinese suppliers
> developing something that could be rebadged as an HP machine.
Doesn't "rebadged" usually mean something that is entirely someone
else's design and product, with one's own content being just the logo?
Some such "non-HP" items seem actually to have appeared in the past,
but the products most discussed here seem to involve
remanufacturing of existing originally HP-designed products,
such as the 49G+.
> Hence the keyboard problem will have to wait
> until they not HP are ready to move on.
As to who has control and approval over what, and exactly what
is specified in any contracts, it would seem unlikely
that non-insiders would know much about it.
You can observe that certain people still working for HP,
and others who used to work for HP, are still updating
at least the software, so you can see progress continuing
on that level at least, and to some extent it seems
to be mitigating some of the hardware problems
(e.g. improves key bouncing, tho not keys breaking off).
Responsibilities for anything are distributed,
whether under one company or several,
and the quality of the relationships among all
govern the overall final quality.
[r->] [OFF]
HrastProgrammer
> are still buying this calculator.
Yes, I am wondering about this, too ...
Jean-Yves Avenard
> Yes, I am wondering about this, too ...
Jean-Yves
Gene
Gene: They don't?
1) Reissued 33S with better decimal point.
2) Reissued 12c platinum with parentheses
3) Released the 49g+ AUR
4) Updated the 49g+ ROM
5) ....
If I were HP and I weren't listening, I wouldn't be doing any of these.
One can always argue about choices that have already been made, but it
does appear HP is listening and making improvements. Are there changes
you might still like to see? Probably, but give credit where credit is
due.
Steen Schmidt
> 3) Released the 49g+ AUR
This was not HP.
Regards
Steen
HrastProgrammer
In this case I strongly support it :-)
timwe...@gmail.com
>
> This was not HP.
How does hiring people (Gene and others) to create something count as
not HP? Just curious. . .
TW
Steen Schmidt
Steen Schmidt
> 3) Released the 49g+ AUR
Sorry about my last post, Gene. My memory totally failed me, as I was
sure the AUR was released without the aid of HP. It had something to do
with the fact that it was you that announced it and took it upon
yourself to answer to peoples comments.
I must've read the thread way too fast back then (and never got around
to looking in the actual document again). Upon re-reading the
AUR-announcement thread as well as looking through the AUR itself, it's
evident that HP is behind it.
I'm sorry for posting such rubbish - I'm glad HP put out the AUR
eventually, and it's great work that has gone into making it. Thanks to
all who participated in the making. I'm also sure HP is still working
on the HP49G+ - I'm with you on that one :-)
Best regards
Steen
timwe...@gmail.com
> on the HP49G+ - I'm with you on that one :-)
Hmm. . . are you SURELY SURE?!?!?! <enter VPN rumor mode> ;-)
TW
Brother-Peter
news:1135279633.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> all who participated in the making. I'm also sure HP is still working
>> on the HP49G+ - I'm with you on that one :-)
>
> Hmm. . . are you SURELY SURE?!?!?! <enter VPN rumor mode> ;-)
>
I'm waiting my inside person to contact me about the new models
that HP has prepared - there are several, but nothing really new
no 42SII
no 15C Platinum
some small enhancements to existing models
and new small "HP"s
They didn't even buy Qonos...
)-`:
Well, at least the WinCE PPC models are getting better each year!
Heiko Arnemann
> If I were HP and I weren't listening, I wouldn't be doing any of
these.
> One can always argue about choices that have already been made, but it
> does appear HP is listening and making improvements. Are there changes
> you might still like to see? Probably, but give credit where credit is
> due.
Hi Gene,
you are right.
The last 6 month a lot seem to have happend and there is
quite a lot improvement which has been received by the customers.
Especialy ROM and AUR.
Honestly, go ahead with your possitive feetback!
Personly, it is hard state all nice improvements, while
beeing in conflict with obviously shortcomings.
I will continue on focussing on insufficiencies.
Regards
Heiko
Brother-Peter
news:43abbab9$0$3203$ba62...@news.skynet.be...
Indeed HPQ has hires outside help (and Cyrlille&Al are working 2)
and thus we have AUR, new ROM is coming out
perhaps new, improved top models
BUT
certain problems remain
1) mechanical keyboard durability (change to domes?)
2) clock/alarm system (do it finally right and TEST IT)
3) CAS flags & variable questions (hire Parisse back)
...
VPN
Jean-Yves Avenard
> Personly, it is hard state all nice improvements, while
> beeing in conflict with obviously shortcomings.
> I will continue on focussing on insufficiencies.
serious of a shortcoming is that ?
Seriously, time to see the bright side a little bit instead of the
always negative comment
JY
Brother-Peter
Well everything else *IS* the brite side
Nobody would by the Beast if it were not the Beauty also
There are a few shortcomings, which prevents getting a+
Fix
1) Ccock & Alarm
2) CAS flags & vars "interfearing"
3) proper mechanism & material for the keyboard
and the nagging grows smaller
BUT
that is HPQ's problem, not yours
Merry Xmas to Jean-Yves, Gerald, Cyrille
casati
New HP Calculator
....
The HP8s Scientific Calculator was launched in South East Asia Market
on 1 Jan 2006. The HP8s is a general purpose calculator that is
perfect for math and science students.
--> The new small HP ...
Raymond Del Tondo
"casati" <gebha...@web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1135349848.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.educalc.net/181086.page
>
> New HP Calculator
> ....
> The HP8s Scientific Calculator was launched in South East Asia Market
> on 1 Jan 2006. The HP8s is a general purpose calculator that is
> perfect for math and science students.
> --> The new small HP ...
>
Interesting thing is that it 'was launched [..] on 1 Jan 2006' .
Should that indicate that 'hp' is still beyond the real world time?
Aside from that, I think I saw a similar calc recently,
from an Asian company...
However, it doesn't look that bad, kinda retro design,
straight (not droite) rectangular shape and black, like it should be,
much nicer than the recent banana shaped and colored calcs IMHO;-)
Let's hope it has reasonable keys
Raymond
William Graves
>
> New HP Calculator
> ....
> The HP8s Scientific Calculator was launched in South East Asia Market
> on 1 Jan 2006. The HP8s is a general purpose calculator that is
> perfect for math and science students.
But there is no mention of RPN only algebraic!
-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Graves RKBA!
bgr...@ix.netcom.com
Brother-Peter
news:1135349848.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.educalc.net/181086.page
>
> New HP Calculator
> ....
> The HP8s Scientific Calculator was launched in South East Asia Market
> on 1 Jan 2006. The HP8s is a general purpose calculator that is
> perfect for math and science students.
> --> The new small HP ...
One for a test ALGebraic-ride, more to come...
martin cohen
Here is the url:
http://www.educalc.net/1766087.page
Here is the text:
The HP 8s Scientific Calculator is a perfect calculator for Students
solving everyday problems in the classroom. HP 8s is also a calculator
for everyday living like adding shopping list expenditures, comparing
volumes with prices, tracking day-to-day expenditures. HP 8s is perfect
for office calculations and calculating quantities for home
improvements. The built-in currency conversions in the HP 8s makes it
an ideal traveling companion. The HP 8s comes with 240 functions with
super visually perfect Algebraic Method for data entry with individual
plastic keys, a dot matrix, 2-line display with 10 + 2 digits. HP 8s
has a multi-replay function, fraction calculations, Combination and
Permutation, Statistics. 9 variable memories, comes with slide-on hard case.
HP8s Specifications:
*
HP 8s has a LCD view area of 61 x 18.8 pixels with 2 display lines.
*
10 calculation digits and a maximum length of command line of 79
can be displayed on the HP 8s.
*
HP 8s can replay function: up, down, left, right. It has error
indication and an easy to set Decimal point selection.
*
Scientific Functions on the HP 8s are trigonometric, inverse,
logs, powers and roots of equations, permutations, combinations and
factorials. With Scientific display of 10+2.
*
HP 8s has statistical features that can find mean, standard
deviation, variance and regression analysis with STAT-data editor.
*
The HP 8s needs a power supply of 2 x CR2032 Battery with a life
of between 3 to 5 years. Batteries included.
*
HP 8s physical size (L x W x D) is 15.7 x 7.5 x 1.2cm.
*
HP 8s weight is 120g.
John H Meyers
Even though it wasn't your project?
The best defense for HP might be to re-establish
the ability which always used to be there,
if it's at all possible and not too difficult.
One company after another tells customers
that some recently discovered problem
which has alarmed its customers
is really insignificant, and
shouldn't really matter to them,
and every company that does this
seems to get really bad PR,
just for dismissing the customer's point of view,
whereas those who step up and take their own
customers' side are generally seen in better light.
This is not a question of technicalities or engineering,
but one of relationships between organizations and clients,
which is why it should not be left entirely to technical people,
if they aren't just as well versed in relating to people.
[r->] [OFF]
John H Meyers
> http://www.educalc.net/181086.page
> New HP Calculator: HP8s Scientific Calculator...
Looks very much to me like a re-branded common Casio,
much like some I've had in my desk for many years,
tho the originals used to sell for more than US $12
fx-6300G comes to mind, in fact
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fx-6300G
Speaking of keyboards, that Casio has nice plastic keys,
very low force, and mine has never worn out,
never failed in any way;
perhaps Kinpo should try reverse-engineering some of those.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.hp48/msg/a710988da8acbcdf
[r->] [OFF]
John H Meyers
The HP 8s Scientific Calculator is a perfect calculator for
Students solving everyday problems in the classroom. HP 8s is
also a calculator for everyday living like adding shopping list
expenditures, comparing volumes with prices, tracking
day-to-day expenditures. HP 8s is perfect for office
calculations and calculating quantities for home improvements.
The built-in currency conversions in the HP 8s makes it an
ideal traveling companion. The HP 8s comes with 240 functions
with super visually perfect Algebraic Method for data entry
with individual plastic keys, a dot matrix, 2-line display with
10 + 2 digits. HP 8s has a multi- replay function, fraction
calculations, Combination and Permutation, Statistics.
9 variable memories, comes with slide-on hard case.
[End of quote]
"visually perfect Algebraic Method" [VPAM] is "Casio-speak"
It's much less than fx-6300G, however, since it apparently
has not even the tiny graphing window of the latter,
no mention of programming, and only 9 memories
(6300G has A thru Z, at least 26 right there).
[r->] [OFF]
John H Meyers
"Super Visually Perfect Algebraic Method" [S-VPAM]
[r->] [OFF]
Scott Chapin
<SNIP>
> The last 6 month a lot seem to have happend and there is
> quite a lot improvement which has been received by the customers.
> Especialy ROM and AUR.
>
I'll grant you the AUR, but just exactly what has the new ROM done? I didn't
have key bounce, just chipping paint (there, the dead horse has been beat to
death).
> Honestly, go ahead with your possitive feetback!
>
> Personly, it is hard state all nice improvements, while
> beeing in conflict with obviously shortcomings.
> I will continue on focussing on insufficiencies.
>
Only because the are significant!
Scott Chapin
Scott Chapin
> > Personly, it is hard state all nice improvements, while
> > beeing in conflict with obviously shortcomings.
> > I will continue on focussing on insufficiencies.
> A shortcomings that don't allow you a greater accuracy than 1s? How
> serious of a shortcoming is that ?
>
If you run an alarm every day to adjust for the clock's error and it rounds
off to the nearest second, over time the error is greater than a second. For
obsessive compulsives like me, that's serious. :-). Mostly it's just
annoying.
> Seriously, time to see the bright side a little bit instead of the
> always negative comment
>
> JY
Yes Jean-Yves, you are right, and there are wonderful bright sides, but the
quality issue is major and really inexcusable. Sometimes I think HP is
dragging its heels. Issuing a new replacement model too soon would be
tantamount to admitting a wrong that could cost them. I forgive them, just
bring on the new quality replacement!
Scott Chapin
Scott Chapin
"HrastProgrammer" <hr...@programmer.com> wrote in message
news:dodgmq$3eq$1...@ss405.t-com.hr...
> > It is interesting that knowing all problems about keyboard etc. people
> > are still buying this calculator.
>
> Yes, I am wondering about this, too ...
>
Why? For one it keeps years of programming on the 42 and 48 series
calculators alive. I know I don't want to rewrite all my code. The USB and
SD interfaces are awesome. Nobody wants to give that up. Then there's that
little nagging voice that syas HP will come back, and we can all regain what
we once had.
Scott Chapin
Scott Chapin
"Brother-Peter" <DROP...@dlc.fi> wrote in message
news:v9kqf.29$Lr6...@reader1.news.jippii.net...
<SNIP>
> That's it?
> KEYTIME->
> 150_ms
> DROP
> 75_ms ->KEYTIME
>
> Why not let the people choose?
>
>
Because it's not easily possible? You have been brandishing a sword on this
issue, and rightfully so.
;-)
Scott Chapin
Brother-Peter
news:op.s19h8...@news.cis.dfn.de...
Please stop this Super-Pissing-About-Maniac
I hate re-batched calcs
Give us real 49g++, 39g++, 40gs+, 48gIII
all with both USB and true RS-232C controller
plus more battery power
and give them all a Flash ROM - it will be cheaper to fix bugs
The 49g++ could have a Double-Size-Me Flash ROM
The 48gIII could have more RAM
Heiko Arnemann
> Heiko Arnemann wrote:
> > Personly, it is hard state all nice improvements, while
> > beeing in conflict with obviously shortcomings.
> > I will continue on focussing on insufficiencies.
> A shortcomings that don't allow you a greater accuracy than 1s? How
> serious of a shortcoming is that ?
** You mean an accuracy of 1 s, _each _ time_ you apply CLKADJ.
** The documented (AUR) accuracy is 1/8192 s.
Does this answer your questions?
This is the point:
CLKADJ is not working properly, it does not do the job,
described in the AUR, so it clearly contains a bug,
it does not correct the build in clock by the entered ticks.
HP's job:
Correct the CLKADJ _or_ describe clearly what CLKADJ
is doing on a hp 49g+, with the hint, of incompatibilty to
former versions.
I think nobody would like the solution after _or_ ,
because this would mean to change the specification.
Good luck.
> Seriously, time to see the bright side a little bit instead of the
> always negative comment
You mean the display? Yes, it is realy the brightest I have ever seen
from HP.
The speed? Yes, it realy makes more fun to use a fast responding calc.
RPN? Thats why I am using HP.
Documentation? Yes, it comes back to the level where it was,
for former products.
There are people hired by HP, who are paid to show the bright side,
not you, not me...
I understand, it _is_ (present) a big challenge to port the OS from
Saturn to ARM...
Best regards
Heiko
torbjorn.ekstrom
why 'special mode' for (mostly incomplete in casio world) complex number
handling??
hp42s have always complex number dataype if operations make this type of
result (simplest try 'sqrt(-1)' and se how caculator handle this), and
working with all math function[1] and memorys without 'special mode' or
other fuss. Complex number handles same easy way as scalar number in hp42s.
why make so complicate handling in complex number situation in other
'numeric' caculator world???
in days computer power is easy to handle and thinking only a user
interface problem to make it simple. hp42s is good example how make
complex handling easy for every one, also for not so high math skill
people.
and if study electrical engineering, it's necessary tool for fast
calculating in problem solver situation (hp33s is not good enough IMHO,
have incomplete (not handle arctan or tanh with complex number) and hard
to use complex handling compare to hp42s), but not need so advanced and
big size tool as hp49+ or TI89.
I want hp42s compatible new numeric calculator in smal size for every
day using like my old hp42s, but impossible to find now, 17 years later...
[1] sin, cos, tan, sinh, cosh, tanh, y^x, log, ln, e^x, 10^x etc. and
inverses. hp42s handle also matrices and matrice-operationer with
complex number...
John H Meyers
> why 'special mode' for (mostly incomplete in casio world)
> complex number handling??
IIRC there may be some storage registers which have to be
stolen from somewhere to provide the "complex stack"
(although it isn't exactly a stack).
Even the wonderful HP15C had to set a flag
and steal some registers to create a true "complex stack,"
but in the HP15C this occurred more naturally
and automatically, whenever you implied its use
(though I believe you had to manually turn it off
to get back your registers and "pure real" functions).
The HP15C also implemented almost all analytic functions
in complex mode, as opposed to Casio's usually more modest
"four banger" capability -- i.e. in Casio's "complex mode,"
you can only balance your checkbook or compute tips and taxes :)
[r->] [OFF]
torbjorn.ekstrom
I know, i know, casios version of complex handling (written with big
letter on box) is a big joke, possible make only for 1 page introduction
of complex numbers in school book and only support +-/*, not more.
Storage register not working in complex mode in my casio (take register
for complex number?), IMHO total worthless...
In days is memory very, very cheap - why, this typ of restriction??
Casio using spare chip from 1986???
---
trying simple sqrt(-1) on calculators say very much of complex
capability...
(but not on hp33s - Y^0.5 working for '-1' but not square root button
for '-1'...)
Mark Kolesar
>>It is interesting that knowing all problems about keyboard etc. people
>>are still buying this calculator.
>
>
> Yes, I am wondering about this, too ...
>
>
that HP would see a serious problem, then act quickly to fix it in later
units. I even thought they might ex post facto admit a problem and
replace the defective units. I bought based on an advertisement by an
authorized HP dealer that said the product had the "new improved
keyboard." Personally, I find excuses about the quantity / price of
plastic being too expensive to ever build a quality keyboard again
rather disingenuous. Is it really better to save a bit of plastic and
piss off your entire customer base. Just admit they don't really care
anymore and let people decide if they honestly want to buy that or not.
I say just fix the thing, if you can't, get out of the business.
MK
Hank
Continuous memory ? Programable ?
This Looks like another standard dumb Calculator that
*powers-up with a full memory-wipe*.
again: Dumb. No Sale yet.