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TW

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Apr 10, 2007, 12:46:01 PM4/10/07
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timite_h

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Apr 11, 2007, 3:02:19 AM4/11/07
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Hi,

Considering the nature of this event,this new calculator is more
likely a special edition of the HP35,thus being uninteresting besides
perhaps for nostalgic.
I somehow doubt that HP will release a successor for the HP49G serie
or a really new high end calculator ,anytime soon.
I hoped for sometime that they would use Qonos technology as a
starting point,but with the involvement of hydrix in both the NSpire
development and apparently the Vernier Labquest,it is more and more
unlikely.
If i had to guess,i would say that Qonos is the base for the Vernier
LabQuest and its potential successors.

On 10 avr, 16:46, "TW" <timwess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/5323
>
> TW


Tom Lake

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Apr 11, 2007, 3:32:38 AM4/11/07
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> I somehow doubt that HP will release a successor for the HP49G serie
> or a really new high end calculator ,anytime soon.

They already have released a successor to the 49g series (Unless you
consider the 50g to be part of the 49g series)


Tom Lake


Yao Konan

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Apr 11, 2007, 3:58:46 AM4/11/07
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The HP50G belongs to the HP49G serie as it is basically a HP49G
emulator plus some goodies and it is what the HP49G+ and perhaps even
the HP49G should have been.
At the HP49 launch event in 1999,there was someone from HP France who
was quite pissed off and who was saying that the HP49 should have
used both an ARM CPU and an emulator for the Saturn code.
I didn't agree with him at the time because i thought that with the
context and given the ressources i thought they had, the ACO did a
great job.
However considering the products canceled such as HP Xpander and
Callysto,i now think that the ACO had significantly more ressources
than i thought and should perhaps have a different strategy.
For example,they could have kept saturn for low end models such as the
HP39G and the HP40G(which btw should have featured less RAM(128 KB)
and built-in Flash ROM) and go for the emulator way for the high end
model which could have featured both an emulator mode and another mode
like the Qonos.
However what is done is done.
Btw,if HP is still serious about calculator business,they should as
soon as possible for the low model end graphing model as a true killer
from TI is coming:The NSpire without CAS.

TW

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Apr 11, 2007, 12:23:49 PM4/11/07
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> I somehow doubt that HP will release a successor for the HP49G serie
> or a really new high end calculator ,anytime soon.

Nope. It will take longer to develop. My predicition is that it will
be a new scientific with classic coloration, form and a large ENTER
key. Hopefully it will have capabilities surpassing the 33S, but more
likely a replacement (same capabilities, but in a new body).

> If i had to guess,i would say that Qonos is the base for the Vernier
> LabQuest and its potential successors.

I wouldn't say that. Doesn't appear to have any connection to me.

TW

TW

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Apr 11, 2007, 12:26:44 PM4/11/07
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> They already have released a successor to the 49g series (Unless you
> consider the 50g to be part of the 49g series)


I think I would classify the 49G as the continuation of the 48
series. The 49g+/50g add enough different features that they really
are a successor (not a huge leap of course), but have enough added
capabilities and differences that they are a successor.

Of course saying the 50g is a leap ahead of the 49g+ isn't anywhere
close to the truth. Just a small feature bump and repackaging.

TW


Dave Boyd

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Apr 11, 2007, 1:18:12 PM4/11/07
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TW wrote:
>> I somehow doubt that HP will release a successor for the HP49G serie
>> or a really new high end calculator ,anytime soon.
>
> Nope. It will take longer to develop. My predicition is that it will
> be a new scientific with classic coloration, form and a large ENTER
> key. Hopefully it will have capabilities surpassing the 33S, but more
> likely a replacement (same capabilities, but in a new body).

Given the few changes made for all other "anniversary editions", I think
that even that is wishful thinking. A 33s, with new "classic"
coloration, and perhaps a new font, is all I expect (and it will be very
welcome indeed). What you describe would be even more welcome of course.

Now, what's "classic" coloration? I tend to think of it as black, with
orange and medium blue secondary functions, a la the Voyagers; but they
could go back further to the 45 or 55 or 65, with various shades of
gray, or the 67, with all that and those light brown keys.

As far as looks go, I'll take the 65 over everything else.

--
Dave Boyd
"That's sucker talk."
-- Raven, _This_Gun_For_Hire_, Universal, 1942

TW

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Apr 11, 2007, 5:39:04 PM4/11/07
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> Now, what's "classic" coloration?

I think just darker and subdued, like the 50G, goes a long way toward
regaining that classic feel. Note that I really have no strong
feeling on coloration as the blue 49G was my first calculator. I
wasn't even born back in "classical" times. :-)

TW

Dave Boyd

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Apr 11, 2007, 6:13:22 PM4/11/07
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My first HP was a HP-16C, bought after high school when I was going off
to computer school, for the Marines... in 1983. When I first saw the
49G, I though it was ugly, and rubber-dome keys? Blasphemy! I didn't
get one, got a 49G+, and later sold that to get a 50G because I liked
the coloration better. After time, I got to like the coloration on the
49G and 49G+ much more. My tastes have widened I guess! I now own a 49G.

Bruce Horrocks

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Apr 12, 2007, 10:58:31 AM4/12/07
to
TW wrote:
>> I somehow doubt that HP will release a successor for the HP49G serie
>> or a really new high end calculator ,anytime soon.
>
> Nope. It will take longer to develop. My predicition is that it will
> be a new scientific with classic coloration, form and a large ENTER
> key. Hopefully it will have capabilities surpassing the 33S, but more
> likely a replacement (same capabilities, but in a new body).

<mode=don't laugh this is probably nearer the truth than HP would care
to admit>

The only way to get an exact replica HP-35 would be to include a
complete PC-on-a-chip, install DOS, then Eric's Nonpareil emulator with
the HP-35 ROM.

That will comfortably fit in a case the same physical size as the
original '35. Just need to source some red LEDs...

</mode>


--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
(bruce at scorecrow dot com)

John H Meyers

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Apr 12, 2007, 5:56:54 PM4/12/07
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On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:26:44 -0500, TW wrote:

> I think I would classify the 49G as the continuation of the 48
> series. The 49g+/50g add enough different features that they really
> are a successor (not a huge leap of course), but have enough added
> capabilities and differences that they are a successor.

Except for the ability (with added software help)
to make use of the internal ARM processor without the emulation layer,
the 49G+/50G must certainly be exactly the same in programming capability
as the 49G, particularly since they can all use exactly the same Saturn ROM
(version 2.09 can be installed into a 49G as well as into 49G+/50G)

The 49G was already incompatible with 48G[X],
having already relocated most things in ROM,
added the CAS, Filer, new keyboard, etc.
(and gutted the original symbolic facilities,
which sometimes work better and/or faster,
though only of course for a subset of current capability).

You do get added hardware in 49G+/50G (IR, taller screen, SD card, USB),
but all programming is still the same as 49G (or else don't use
what I post, because it's all developed on emulated 49G,
even though nowadays with ROM 2.09 or later :)

For the very picky: just these keyboard function locations
were also swapped between 49G and 49G+: CAT<->EVAL and EQW<->[']

-[ ]-

mjc

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Apr 13, 2007, 3:51:00 PM4/13/07
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I want a 43s+ with easy complex numbers, matrices, and simple
graphics, all in a 42s form factor.

USB would be nice.

Programmable, of course.

Also, as I have asked for years, log of the gamma function. If they
use the Lanczos method, it can work for complex numbers as well as
real.

Jean-Yves Avenard

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Apr 21, 2007, 12:09:38 AM4/21/07
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Hi

timite_h wrote:
> Considering the nature of this event,this new calculator is more
> likely a special edition of the HP35,thus being uninteresting besides
> perhaps for nostalgic.
> I somehow doubt that HP will release a successor for the HP49G serie
> or a really new high end calculator ,anytime soon.
> I hoped for sometime that they would use Qonos technology as a
> starting point,but with the involvement of hydrix in both the NSpire
> development and apparently the Vernier Labquest,it is more and more
> unlikely.

While there has been little progress on QonoS over the past two years,
the platform is definitely not dead.
One example is the MT3000 payment terminal device
http://www.hydrix.com/aboutus/index.php?id=30#mt3000

It is the smallest payment terminal fully PCI-PED security accredited on
the planet with probably the longest battery life available for its size.

This was a direct re-use of the qonos hardware and software architecture.

We have spent so much time, effort and money (over AUD $700,000) has
been spent on QonoS... I am thinking about releasing the two hardware
platforms in the public domain. One is based on the Intel PXA255 and
includes datalogging capabilities) the other one on the PXA260 series,
which is unfortunately not available anymore. Intel removed if from the
market less than one year after its introduction, and this set us back
significantly. The 260 platform has the advantage to run in full 32 bits
and datalogging is provided by an add-on card.


BTW, we've redesigned our web site and added far more content.
Check it out: http://www.hydrix.com

You'll learn a few things no doubt !

Jean-Yves

Jean-Yves Avenard

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Apr 21, 2007, 12:12:24 AM4/21/07
to
Hi

Yao Konan wrote:
> At the HP49 launch event in 1999,there was someone from HP France who
> was quite pissed off and who was saying that the HP49 should have
> used both an ARM CPU and an emulator for the Saturn code.

I seriously doubt anyone at HP France would have made such claim as
there was absolutely no-one at HP who was technicaly-minded. It was
purely a marketing and support division.

The only time an ARM was considered for the HP4x platform was several
years later, after ACO closed down.

JY

Jean-Yves Avenard

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Apr 21, 2007, 12:15:22 AM4/21/07
to
TW wrote:
>
> I think I would classify the 49G as the continuation of the 48
> series. The 49g+/50g add enough different features that they really
> are a successor (not a huge leap of course), but have enough added
> capabilities and differences that they are a successor.

Except that the effort to create the HP49 was far greater than for
create the HP49G+.

On the software point of view, the 49G+ was done in less than 6 months
(mainly done by Hydrix), it took more than one year with a significantly
bigger team to create the HP49G

JY

James M. Prange

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Apr 21, 2007, 4:43:17 PM4/21/07
to
Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:
> Hi
>
> timite_h wrote:
>> Considering the nature of this event,this new calculator is more
>> likely a special edition of the HP35,thus being uninteresting besides
>> perhaps for nostalgic.
>> I somehow doubt that HP will release a successor for the HP49G serie
>> or a really new high end calculator ,anytime soon.
>> I hoped for sometime that they would use Qonos technology as a
>> starting point,but with the involvement of hydrix in both the NSpire
>> development and apparently the Vernier Labquest,it is more and more
>> unlikely.
>
> While there has been little progress on QonoS over the past two years,
> the platform is definitely not dead.

I'm glad to read that!

> One example is the MT3000 payment terminal device
> http://www.hydrix.com/aboutus/index.php?id=30#mt3000
>
> It is the smallest payment terminal fully PCI-PED security accredited on
> the planet with probably the longest battery life available for its size.
>
> This was a direct re-use of the qonos hardware and software architecture.

I'm glad that you got some benefit from the Qonos project, but I
wish that it were a "calculator" instead of a "payment terminal
device".

> We have spent so much time, effort and money (over AUD $700,000) has
> been spent on QonoS... I am thinking about releasing the two hardware
> platforms in the public domain.

But I expect that relatively few of us would have the skills to
actually build one.

> One is based on the Intel PXA255 and
> includes datalogging capabilities) the other one on the PXA260 series,
> which is unfortunately not available anymore. Intel removed if from the
> market less than one year after its introduction, and this set us back
> significantly. The 260 platform has the advantage to run in full 32 bits
> and datalogging is provided by an add-on card.
>
>
> BTW, we've redesigned our web site and added far more content.
> Check it out: http://www.hydrix.com
>
> You'll learn a few things no doubt !

Something that I've wondered about is your H120 Bluetooth Thermal
Printer. Given that Hydrix can offer a hand-held printer with
Bluetooth I/O, no doubt RS-232, RedEye, or IrDA I/O compatible
with HP calculators would also be possible. But I doubt that the
market would be that large, so perhaps not economically feasible.

I wish you and the rest of the Hydrix team the best of luck.

--
Regards,
James

Yao Konan

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Apr 21, 2007, 9:45:44 PM4/21/07
to
Hi,

The guy belonged to the HP team at his event.
And i clearly remember what he said even though he didn't say it
loudly.
Moreover this possbility didn't need to have been considered by HP
before,to have some guy with some engineering skills think about it.
After all weren't many guys here asking why a ARM CPU and emulator
hadn't been used instead of the SATURN ?

Jean-Yves Avenard

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Apr 21, 2007, 10:23:48 PM4/21/07
to
James M. Prange wrote:
> Something that I've wondered about is your H120 Bluetooth Thermal
> Printer. Given that Hydrix can offer a hand-held printer with
> Bluetooth I/O, no doubt RS-232, RedEye, or IrDA I/O compatible
It has RS232 and IR already... It's not just a BT printer

JY

James M. Prange

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Apr 22, 2007, 2:06:41 AM4/22/07
to

That's interesting. I don't see that information at the Hydrix
site. Perhaps it should be added?

By "IR", do you mean IrDA, or the "RedEye" IR signal as used on
the HP 82240A/B printers, or the Serial IR as used between 48
series calculators, or perhaps some combination of these?

More to the point, does its IR work with the 48 series, or the 49
series, or perhaps both?

Is the H120 printer alone available as a retail product?

--
Regards,
James

Jean-Yves Avenard

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Apr 22, 2007, 2:56:42 AM4/22/07
to
James M. Prange wrote:
>
> That's interesting. I don't see that information at the Hydrix
> site. Perhaps it should be added?
It's not listed on our new site but earlier you could download the brochune

>
> By "IR", do you mean IrDA, or the "RedEye" IR signal as used on
> the HP 82240A/B printers, or the Serial IR as used between 48
> series calculators, or perhaps some combination of these?

IR means IrDA, however it is designed to work as an HP printer too.

>
> More to the point, does its IR work with the 48 series, or the 49
> series, or perhaps both?

The 49 series use the same IR printer as the 48 series

> Is the H120 printer alone available as a retail product?

At that stage we do not have the infrastructure to retail the product,
only wholesale.
We've been contacted by a few companies to retail the product. Will see
how it goes.

JY

James M. Prange

unread,
Apr 22, 2007, 6:31:51 AM4/22/07
to
Jean-Yves Avenard wrote:
> James M. Prange wrote:
>> That's interesting. I don't see that information at the Hydrix
>> site. Perhaps it should be added?
> It's not listed on our new site but earlier you could download the brochune

Sorry, it seems that I overlooked that on the previous pages.

>> By "IR", do you mean IrDA, or the "RedEye" IR signal as used on
>> the HP 82240A/B printers, or the Serial IR as used between 48
>> series calculators, or perhaps some combination of these?
> IR means IrDA, however it is designed to work as an HP printer too.

By "it is designed to work as an HP printer too", I take it that
it can be used with anything that an HP 82240A/B can be used with?

>> More to the point, does its IR work with the 48 series, or the 49
>> series, or perhaps both?
> The 49 series use the same IR printer as the 48 series

Well, yes, except of course the 49G which lacks IR entirely, but I
believe that the 49 series can also print to an IrDA printer. The
character sets may well differ, but the I/O translation mode
applies when printing via IrDA, and that's good enough for me.

>> Is the H120 printer alone available as a retail product?
> At that stage we do not have the infrastructure to retail the product,
> only wholesale.

Okay, I can understand that.

> We've been contacted by a few companies to retail the product. Will see
> how it goes.

Let us know if it becomes available to ordinary consumers, of
course.

--
Regards,
James

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