TOFF problem
James M. Prange
of users stored a program in TOFF, and found that it produced
an "instant off" behavior. I think someone else had noted that it works
with a real number in place of a binary number. My suspicion was that
the system was treating whatever it found in TOFF as a binary integer.
I did a little experimenting, and found that storing a real number,
81920 or 819200 for example, in TOFF shuts the calculator off in a
little over 5 seconds. Somewhat surprisingly, storing #0 in TOFF also
shuts it off in a little over 5 seconds. Ok, if I realize that the
problem is TOFF, it's easy enough to purge or rename it, without
leaving it idle for long enough to time out and turn off. Good, looks
like someone was thinking of the possible problem.
But, when I tried it with the program << MEM DROP OFF >> stored in
TOFF , it turned the calculator off very quickly indeed! I forced a
memory clear (no big deal, as I was prepared for it) to get rid of TOFF.
For now, the lesson is to be careful that I store only reasonable
binary integers in TOFF.
I expect that some users will store something else in TOFF; Murphy's
law hasn't been repealed has it? Even JYA wrote TOFF in a post when he
apparently meant STARTOFF; guess anyone can make an error.
Can the system be changed to always give us time to purge, rename or
edit TOFF?
Is there a way to turn the calculator on and have it ignore TOFF?
--
JMP
China Township, Michigan, U.S.A.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John H Meyers
> storing a real number, 81920 or 819200 for example, in TOFF
> shuts the calculator off in a little over 5 seconds.
Try 81920.9999999
> Somewhat surprisingly, storing #0 in TOFF
> also shuts it off in a little over 5 seconds.
There was supposed to be minimum of five seconds no matter what
value was supplied, to help prevent getting oneself "locked out,"
similar to other "safety-nets" like
turning of "user" mode on warmstarts,
allowing a zero-delay rescheduled alarm to be canceled, etc.
Evidently a minor mistake was made in coding; possibly any
TOFF value older than the universe makes the calc try to
turn off before the universe even began :)
-----------------------------------------------------------
With best wishes from: John H Meyers <jhme...@mum.edu>
James M. Prange
John H Meyers <jhme...@miu.edu> wrote:
> JMP:
>
> > storing a real number, 81920 or 819200 for example, in TOFF
> > shuts the calculator off in a little over 5 seconds.
>
> Try 81920.9999999
>
problem, and still seems that a "binary" integer representing the
number of ticks is expected.
> > Somewhat surprisingly, storing #0 in TOFF
> > also shuts it off in a little over 5 seconds.
>
> There was supposed to be minimum of five seconds no matter what
> value was supplied, to help prevent getting oneself "locked out,"
> similar to other "safety-nets" like
> turning of "user" mode on warmstarts,
> allowing a zero-delay rescheduled alarm to be canceled, etc.
>
Good plan!
> Evidently a minor mistake was made in coding; possibly any
> TOFF value older than the universe makes the calc try to
> turn off before the universe even began :)
>
Seems to be a hole in the net. I expect that ACO is currently busy with
more important things, but this should be on their to-do list.
--
JMP
China Township, Michigan, U.S.A.
Jean-Yves Avenard
As always, you got it right...
There is effectively a security to check if the value is below 5 seconds.
Unfortunately, all the calculations are done using 64 bits as it should only
use 32 bits. If the value you put in TOFF is higher than 2^32, then you may
be able to overule the protection of 5 seconds.
That's what happened when you save << MEM DROP >> into TOFF, it tries to put
the next auto off like 3 billions years from now :) And as there's is a
restaurant somewhere there, the program stop for dinner and crash.
I've fixed it.
Jean-Yves
"John H Meyers" <jhme...@miu.edu> wrote in message
news:8qn35h$rkq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> JMP:
>
> > storing a real number, 81920 or 819200 for example, in TOFF
> > shuts the calculator off in a little over 5 seconds.
>
> Try 81920.9999999
>
> > Somewhat surprisingly, storing #0 in TOFF
> > also shuts it off in a little over 5 seconds.
>
> There was supposed to be minimum of five seconds no matter what
> value was supplied, to help prevent getting oneself "locked out,"
> similar to other "safety-nets" like
> turning of "user" mode on warmstarts,
> allowing a zero-delay rescheduled alarm to be canceled, etc.
>
> Evidently a minor mistake was made in coding; possibly any
> TOFF value older than the universe makes the calc try to
> turn off before the universe even began :)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> With best wishes from: John H Meyers <jhme...@mum.edu>
>
>
Rob Atkinson
> the next auto off like 3 billions years from now :) And as there's is a
> restaurant somewhere there, the program stop for dinner and crash.
However, invest a penny now, and your meal will already be paid for!
James M. Prange
"Jean-Yves Avenard" <aven...@epita.fr> wrote:
> Hello John.
>
> As always, you got it right...
>
> There is effectively a security to check if the value is below 5
seconds.
> Unfortunately, all the calculations are done using 64 bits as it
should only
> use 32 bits. If the value you put in TOFF is higher than 2^32, then
you may
> be able to overule the protection of 5 seconds.
>
> That's what happened when you save << MEM DROP >> into TOFF, it tries
to put
> the next auto off like 3 billions years from now :) And as there's is
a
> restaurant somewhere there, the program stop for dinner and crash.
>
> I've fixed it.
Thanks, Jean-Yves. I expect that will save some users (who knows, maybe
even me) a bit a grief. I'm impressed by the quick response, assume
that the fix will be in the next Beta release.
> Jean-Yves
>
> "John H Meyers" <jhme...@miu.edu> wrote in message
> news:8qn35h$rkq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > JMP:
> >
> > > storing a real number, 81920 or 819200 for example, in TOFF
> > > shuts the calculator off in a little over 5 seconds.
> >
> > Try 81920.9999999
> >
> > > Somewhat surprisingly, storing #0 in TOFF
> > > also shuts it off in a little over 5 seconds.
> >
> > There was supposed to be minimum of five seconds no matter what
> > value was supplied, to help prevent getting oneself "locked out,"
> > similar to other "safety-nets" like
> > turning of "user" mode on warmstarts,
> > allowing a zero-delay rescheduled alarm to be canceled, etc.
> >
> > Evidently a minor mistake was made in coding; possibly any
> > TOFF value older than the universe makes the calc try to
> > turn off before the universe even began :)
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > With best wishes from: John H Meyers <jhme...@mum.edu>
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
>
--
JMP
China Township, Michigan, U.S.A.
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:8qokmt$2eh$1...@web1.cup.hp.com...
X
> I've fixed it.
> Jean-Yves
That is faaast !
Thanks JYA!!!
Now how about Xtending the CST-menus with a second
list for the shift&holds? Please...
Like:
{ THIS { "foo" { bar } }
{"THAT"{NORMAL LEFTSHIFT RIGHTSHIFT}{LONG&NORMAL}}
{"HOLD" { } { LONG&NORMAL LEFT&SHIFT RIGHT&SHIFT } } }
Maybe even the "normal" keys could have looonghold (ala KEYMAN)
used as a shift hold eg. rc.11 would be legal for ASN
?!!!
VPN
Jean-Yves Avenard
71 hours.
Jean-Yves
"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <vp.nou...@lapinlahden-teknologiakeskus.fi>
wrote in message news:kCYz5.62$Zt1....@read2.inet.fi...
> "Jean-Yves Avenard" <aven...@epita.fr> wrote in message
> news:8qokmt$2eh$1...@web1.cup.hp.com...
> X
> > I've fixed it.
> > Jean-Yves
> X
> That is faaast !
> Thanks JYA!!!
>
> Now how about Xtending the CST-menus with a second
> list for the shift&holds? Please...
> Like:
> { THIS { "foo" { bar } }
> {"THAT"{NORMAL LEFTSHIFT RIGHTSHIFT}{LONG&NORMAL}}
> {"HOLD" { } { LONG&NORMAL LEFT&SHIFT RIGHT&SHIFT } } }
> Maybe even the "normal" keys could have looonghold (ala KEYMAN)
> used as a shift hold eg. rc.11 would be legal for ASN
> ?!!!
> VPN
>
>
>
That is not possible. If you have a look in the reserved system memory, you
will see that there are memory allocated for each key sequence in a CST
menu, and you can't add more items easily
Jean-Yves
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> Unfortunately, there is a maximum for the TOFF value now:
>
> 71 hours.
So you are using 32 bits instead of full 64 bits ?!
> Jean-Yves
>
> "Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <vp.nou...@lapinlahden-teknologiakeskus.fi>
X
> > Now how about Xtending the CST-menus with a second
> > list for the shift&holds? Please...
> > Like:
> > { THIS { "foo" { bar } }
> > {"THAT"{NORMAL LEFTSHIFT RIGHTSHIFT}{LONG&NORMAL}}
> > {"HOLD" { } { LONG&NORMAL LEFT&SHIFT RIGHT&SHIFT } } }
> > Maybe even the "normal" keys could have looonghold (ala KEYMAN)
> > used as a shift hold eg. rc.11 would be legal for ASN
> > ?!!!
> > VPN
> >
> >
> >
>
> That is not possible. If you have a look in the reserved system memory,
you
> will see that there are memory allocated for each key sequence in a CST
> menu, and you can't add more items easily
>
> Jean-Yves
OK, you're right (once again :)
BUT
how about that normal key hold?
ASN to accept .11
AND
->KEYDOWN
KEYDOWN->
???
VPN
Pete M. Wilson
I would say the ability to customize more of the user interface -
specifically, the standard menus (such as the Tool menus) built into
the OS - is a logical extension of the customization that was first
made available on the 41, and was insufficiently expanded on the 48
series. Now is a chance to correct that and take the customizability
of the 49 to the next level. (LOTS of user variables in Home!)
"Jean-Yves Avenard" <aven...@epita.fr> wrote:
>
>That is not possible. If you have a look in the reserved system memory, you
>will see that there are memory allocated for each key sequence in a CST
>menu, and you can't add more items easily
>
>Jean-Yves
>
>
>
Pete M. Wilson
Gamewood Data Systems Internet Service
wils...@gamewood.net
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
Do you mean that the "VARiable Browser" should use
a CHOOSE Box ?
Use FILER !
:-)
VPN
PS: Where is FILER.CUSTOM ?
Does it work?
"Pete M. Wilson" <wils...@drop.gamewood.net> wrote in message
news:39d357a3....@news.gamewood.net...
> How about not easy?
>
> I would say the ability to customize more of the user interface -
> specifically, the standard menus (such as the Tool menus) built into
> the OS - is a logical extension of the customization that was first
> made available on the 41, and was insufficiently expanded on the 48
> series. Now is a chance to correct that and take the customizability
> of the 49 to the next level. (LOTS of user variables in Home!)
>
> "Jean-Yves Avenard" <aven...@epita.fr> wrote:
>
> >
> >That is not possible. If you have a look in the reserved system memory,
you
> >will see that there are memory allocated for each key sequence in a CST
> >menu, and you can't add more items easily
> >
> >Jean-Yves
> >
> >
> >
>
>
David Haguenauer
>71 hours.
I really find this a little short, in particular for slow people like me
(and who use plutonium batteries). I guess I will survive, though.
Tell us: there was already a limit before this change, right? About
71*10^6_yr I think!
David Haguenauer
http://zap.to/hsimpson
Pete M. Wilson
"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen"
<vp.nou...@lapinlahden-teknologiakeskus.fi> wrote:
>Hi, Pete!
>
>Do you mean that the "VARiable Browser" should use
>a CHOOSE Box ?
>
>Use FILER !
>:-)
>VPN
>PS: Where is FILER.CUSTOM ?
> Does it work?
Pete M. Wilson
Jean-Yves Avenard
Jean-Yves
"Veli-Pekka Nousiainen" <vp.nou...@lapinlahden-teknologiakeskus.fi>
wrote in message news:LxDA5.101$R34....@read2.inet.fi...
> "Jean-Yves Avenard" <aven...@epita.fr> wrote in message
> news:8qtrp2$p9u$1...@web1.cup.hp.com...
> > Unfortunately, there is a maximum for the TOFF value now:
> >
> > 71 hours.
>
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
but you could keep a separate "wrap-around" counter
and with such a duo-system achieve a veeeery long
(and perhaps somewhat inaccurate) shut-down timer.
Home may timers are available in Yorke?
I remember the 71B having three separate counters for timers
and thus making it possible to use BASIC keywords like
ON TIMER # 1 GOTO Jean-Yves
...
ON TIMER # 3 GOSUB Cyclops
...
LABEL Jean-Yves
LABEL Cyclops
do IR stuff...(rather HP-IL)
RETURN
END
VPN
**************
Bring us three separate IFTIMER 1 THEN...END
structures!
**************
or I'll go back to my HP 71B and stop teasing you
on this NG and then you die bored...
Veli-Pekka
"Jean-Yves Avenard" <aven...@epita.fr> wrote in message
news:8r0mr8$a2i$1...@web1.cup.hp.com...