Help! I just bought the HP 50g.
Chumly
I just bought the HP 50g, but I have not had time to look at it much
as teaching takes up so much of my time. Also I am not used to fancy
programmable graphing calculators!
I am presently using these two scientific calculators: a Texas
Instruments TI-30XS and a Casio fx-991ES. Both are non-programmable,
non-graphical fairly easy-to-use scientific calculators for algebra
and trigonometry.
I have read that the HP 50g has a steep learning curve, so to make the
transition from my TI-30XS & fx-991ES as painless as possible, I would
like (at first) to have the HP50g behave like an easy-to-use
scientific calculator for algebra and trigonometry.
1) Right out of the box, can I use the HP50g like an easy-to-use
scientific calculator for algebra and trigonometry?
2) I do not want to use RPN, will I find there are missing keys or
keys in weird places if I use Infix?
3) Will I find any other limitations if I use Infix instead of RPN?
4) Are there some things I can do to make the HP50g more user friendly
for a first time user needing algebra and trigonometry?
5) Will I have trouble trying to use the HP50g as a decent but more
basic scientific calculator as compared to my TI-30XS and Casio
fx-991ES?
6) Are all the usual scientific calculator keys easy to find and not
hidden? For example I’ve read the TI-89 Titanium does not even have a
1/X button!
7) I understand the programs for the HP50g use RPN, is there a way to
easily program the HP50g without RPN?
Much thanks indeed!
data...@gmail.com
> I have read that the HP 50g has a steep learning curve ...
That's just a rumor. The 50g manual is a good place to start.
> 1) Right out of the box, can I use the HP50g like an easy-to-use
> scientific calculator for algebra and trigonometry?
Out of the box the 50g takes a step out of the light and against its
heritage. I.e. it defaults to algebraic mode. Don't panic, it is
still quite usable in a mathematically natural sense. But the leap to
RPN is not that great and there are many benefits.
> 2) I do not want to use RPN, will I find there are missing keys or
> keys in weird places if I use Infix?
AFAIK, no.
> 3) Will I find any other limitations if I use Infix instead of RPN?
IMHO, just your efficiency will suffer.
> 4) Are there some things I can do to make the HP50g more user friendly
> for a first time user needing algebra and trigonometry?
Read the fine manual.
> 5) Will I have trouble trying to use the HP50g as a decent but more
> basic scientific calculator as compared to my TI-30XS and Casio
> fx-991ES?
No.
> 6) Are all the usual scientific calculator keys easy to find and not
> hidden? For example I’ve read the TI-89 Titanium does not even have a
> 1/X button!
Yes.
> 7) I understand the programs for the HP50g use RPN, is there a way to
> easily program the HP50g without RPN?
Technically its called RPL, but in any case, it is easy. Of course, I
find C easier (http://sense.net/~egan/hpgcc/). :-)
Tom Lake
"Chumly" <dal...@lightspeed.ca> wrote in message
news:a767a532-4242-4341...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> Hello,
> 3) Will I find any other limitations if I use Infix instead of RPN?
Yes, you won't be able to get much help from the experts. They are whizzes
at RPL and RPN but most don't really know (or feign ignorance?) about
algebraic mode.
> 6) Are all the usual scientific calculator keys easy to find and not
> hidden? For example I’ve read the TI-89 Titanium does not even have a
> 1/X button!
It doesn't but it has an inverse function that does the same thing. It's a
superscripted "-1" symbol and you have to use the catalog to get it.
Tom Lake
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
sc_u...@hotmail.com
> 1) Right out of the box, can I use the HP50g like an easy-to-use
> scientific calculator for algebra and trigonometry?
Yes, the 50g is a great number cruncher, superior to the TI-89 (yes, I
have both). It can also perform many scientific functions that the
TI-30 and Casio fx-991 can't do, such as complex arithmetic, complex
trig, and even complex inverse trig. With the 50g, complex numbers are
handled just as easily as real numbers and the usage is the same.
> 2) I do not want to use RPN, will I find there are missing keys or
> keys in weird places if I use Infix?
No, the key layout with the ENTER key in the bottom right corner
actually suits infix. The only thing is that the parenthesis are
shifted. Still, they insert both parenthesis "(" and ")" and put your
cursor in between. Very convenient, though I still find RPN the way to
go.
> 3) Will I find any other limitations if I use Infix instead of RPN?
No, but many of the functions are easier and quicker to use in RPN
mode. The software on the calculator is optimized for RPN mode anyway.
> 4) Are there some things I can do to make the HP50g more user friendly
> for a first time user needing algebra and trigonometry?
RPN and softkeys (not CHOOSE boxes). Seriously, I was a bit reluctant
to take the plunge for RPN at first, but now that I've used it for
(only) a year, I would never go back. RPN is simply much more
efficient than infix, saving time and keystrokes.
> 5) Will I have trouble trying to use the HP50g as a decent but more
> basic scientific calculator as compared to my TI-30XS and Casio
> fx-991ES?
No, except it goes through batteries quicker.
> 6) Are all the usual scientific calculator keys easy to find and not
> hidden? For example I’ve read the TI-89 Titanium does not even have a
> 1/X button!
Great layout. On the TI-89, the trig functions are all shifted! What
were they thinking? Not so on the 50g.
> 7) I understand the programs for the HP50g use RPN, is there a way to
> easily program the HP50g without RPN?
There's something called HP-BASIC, though I've never used it because I
prefer the RPL programming.
> Much thanks indeed!
You're welcome!
S.C.
sc_u...@hotmail.com
> > 6) Are all the usual scientific calculator keys easy to find and not
> > hidden? For example I’ve read the TI-89 Titanium does not even have a
> > 1/X button!
>
> It doesn't but it has an inverse function that does the same thing. It's a
> superscripted "-1" symbol and you have to use the catalog to get it.
>
I wouldn't even bother with that function because finding that
function in the vast catalog would take too long. Just use the carat
for exponentiation and put in ^(-1).
Of course, with the 50g in RPN mode, this operation takes 1 keystroke
-- have the number on level 1 in the stack and press the 1/X key. One
keystroke as opposed to six.
S.C.
Chumly
and learning more as time goes on.
Wes
> 7) I understand the programs for the HP50g use RPN, is there a way to
> easily program the HP50g without RPN?
Yes, for simple programs, but as others have said, you're giving up a
lot by not using RPL.
That said, one of the strengths of the HP50g is its flexibility and
the control that the user has over it, even if it's to do something
unpopular. So if you really want to do Algebra mode programming,
below are two simple Hi-Low Game programs that shows the basic
Algebraic mode syntax and such.
Use RightShift-decimal to insert newlines. (No need to enter the
@comments.) You can use commas instead of semicolons and the compiler
will replace them. If you really want a semicolon, you get one by
either doing an Alpha-LeftShift-2, or by holding down the RightShift
while pressing the Space key. Spacing and indenting do not matter.
The \ is used as an escape character to indicate a non-ASCII
character. For example
\<< and \>> are the << and >> characters, RightShift PLUS (RS+)
\-> is the right arrow, RS-0
\|> is the STO> key
@ must be entered in ALGEBRA MODE
@ create a local variable N=0
\<< 0. \-> N
@ create a local variable G=0
\<< 0. \-> G
\<<
@ store random number in N
IP(RAND*100.)\|>N ;
@ get guess, store string in G
INPUT("GUESS A NUMBER, 1-100","")\|>G ;
@ convert string to number and re-store in G
OBJ\->(G)\|>G ;
DO
IF G>N THEN
INPUT("TOO HIGH","")\|>G ;
OBJ\->(G)\|>G
ELSE
IF G<N THEN
INPUT("TOO LOW","")\|>G ;
OBJ\->(G)\|>G
END
END
UNTIL G==N END ;
CLLCD() ;
MSGBOX(G+" IS CORRECT!")
\>>
\>>
\>>
A more compact version would be:
\<< IP(RAND*100.) \-> N
\<< OBJ\->(INPUT("GUESS A NUMBER, 1-100","")) \-> G
\<<
DO
IF G>N THEN
OBJ\->(INPUT("TOO HIGH",""))\|>G
ELSE
IF G<N THEN
OBJ\->(INPUT("TOO LOW",""))\|>G
END
END
UNTIL G==N END ;
CLLCD() ;
MSGBOX(G+" IS CORRECT!")
\>>
\>>
\>>
And just in case you're ever interested, an equivalent RPL program is
@ must be entered in RPN MODE
\<<
RAND 100. * 1. + IP
"GUESS A NUMBER, 1-100" "" INPUT OBJ\->
\-> N G
\<<
DO
IF G N > THEN
"TOO HIGH" "" INPUT OBJ\-> 'G' STO
ELSE
IF G N < THEN
"TOO LOW" "" INPUT OBJ\-> 'G' STO
END
END
UNTIL G N == END
CLLCD
G " IS CORRECT!" + MSGBOX
\>>
\>>
See, it's not so bad. Same logic, just that the command names go
after the arguments instead of either before or in between them.
Parentheses, commas and semicolons are superfluous.
Enjoy,
-wes
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:e2864c3c-2c88-4cdb...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...X
> 7) I understand the programs for the HP50g use RPN, is there a way to
> easily program the HP50g without RPN?
There's something called HP-BASIC, though I've never used it because I
prefer the RPL programming.
_________________________________________________
The Algebraic mode is also programmable and
one can call RPL programs from the "Dark Side of the Force" and vice versa.
One "problem" is that Vectored ENTER is no longer supported on the 49-series
Avenard used it for algebraic argument autoevaluation prevention (or
something like that)
starting from ROM 19.3 (or so) on the old HP-49G model (aka "Blue
Lightning")
I would have used it for some needed tricks in ALG mode...
For a basic user I see no remarkable omissions on either side
Perhaps the stack history on the ALG mode gives an advantage :-D
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
"Tom Lake" <tl...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ab768$485d4521$11...@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Chumly" <dal...@lightspeed.ca> wrote in message
> news:a767a532-4242-4341...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> Hello,
>
>> 3) Will I find any other limitations if I use Infix instead of RPN?
>
> Yes, you won't be able to get much help from the experts. They are
> whizzes
> at RPL and RPN but most don't really know (or feign ignorance?) about
> algebraic mode.
Except some (I'm lazily reading this ng now and then...)
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
> 6) Are all the usual scientific calculator keys easy to find and not
> 1/X button!
Great layout. On the TI-89, the trig functions are all shifted! What
were they thinking? Not so on the 50g.
__________________________________________
HP top-line calculators have also a very flexible User Mode,
where you can define your own keys.
One can also use Custom Menus to aid using the most needed routines
John H Meyers
S.C.
> There's something called HP-BASIC
Pure marketing flummery, trying to fool TI users
(who could write programs in realistic TI-BASIC)
that HP's "ALGebraic entry mode" was in any way like BASIC.
VPN?
> The Algebraic mode is also programmable and
> one can call RPL programs from the "Dark Side of the Force" and vice versa.
> One "problem" is that Vectored ENTER is no longer supported on the 49-series
For those wondering, "Vectored ENTER" means that a user program
can optionally be automatically called at either or both of these places:
o Where any "command line" or manual entry is ready for parsing.
o After any keyboard function has been invoked.
"Vectored ENTER" is in fact still available, as always,
on the entire HP48/49/50 series, when in original "RPN mode,"
but not in the added ALGebraic-entry mode of HP49/50 series.
Even in early versions of 49G ROM, Vectored ENTER in ALG entry mode
existed, but was not compatible with its original design and abilities,
apparently because of the "virtual stack" in ALG mode;
subsequent revelation of all the internals of the virtual stack
could enable one to overcome this, but only via SysRPL programming,
so the significant discrepancy was instead removed by
not calling any user programs more likely designed only for RPN mode,
and in any case not capable of doing much in UserRPL in ALG mode.
Tom Lake:
> you won't be able to get much help from the experts.
> They are whizzes at RPL and RPN but most don't really know
> (or feign ignorance?) about algebraic mode.
Aside from how much work was done by JYA, Cyrille, and all of HP-ACO
to implement and market it, while preserving the RPL central design,
what else is there to know, about a mode
which also exists only to imitate a TI style of doing things,
and includes RPL commands only as formulas with parenthesized arguments,
many of which are rendered useless by ALG mode anyway.
Besides, you can always write directly to Tom about it -- if he can read
everyone else's mind, he must surely know the mind of the calculator :)
[r->] [OFF]