HP 49g+ Keyboard: A manufacturing fiasco
Jose R. Martinez
In the ever increasing need for computation speed I went to Fry's
yesterday to get me a new HP49G+. What a disappointment... the
keyboard is awful!
The tactile response I get from pressing some of the keys - F3 and
F4 - are as hollow as using a TI or Casio, to very noisy ones as if
I am hitting them with a hammer when I press them - ON, DEL and
ENTER. I am serious!
I don't understand the reason why HP with their 'Inventive' slogan
accepted this engineering fiasco to go into production. I am sure
they heard enough negative comments about the 49G's keyboard and many
positive comments about the 48SX/48GX's to make an educated decision
of duplicating this keyboard in future calculator releases.
You may be tired already of reading or hearing about this keyboard,
but I want to send a message to Hewlett-Parkard that the quality of
craftsmanship in the manufacturing process of this calculator is
rather a step backward rather than a step forward.
Once I had the 49g+ in my hands, I noticed also that it was lighter
than the 49G - almost a feather like weight to me. To find out, I
weighted both of them. The results are as follow.
Calculator Weight Diff % Diff
==========================================================
49G (with batteries) 9.80 Oz ---- ----
49g+ (with batteries and 8.15 Oz -1.65 Oz -16.8% (lighter)
one 250 MB SD Card)
To manufacture this new 49g+ HP used lighter - or less - materials
that satisfies the ever quest of producing low-cost products while
maintaining high-profits. I heard last night as I was coming home
from Fry's that HP made close to 0.9 billion dollars in profits this
last quarter. Good packet change, huh?
Now, what's my next step? I think that for the time being my 49G
serves my computational needs quite well, therefore I will return
this calculator to Fry's as an unsatisfied customer.
Jose R. Martinez
Electrical Engineer
State of California
Department of Water Resources
jose...@water.ca.gov
Be careful what you wish for...it may become a reality.
Gene Wright
original 49G keyboard better than the 49G+.
Now that (apparently) any early problems with key-press-but-nothing-happens
appears to be fixed, almost everyone likes the 49G+ keyboard better than the
49G.
As to weight, some people felt the 49G was much too heavy.
I do agree that the actual "sound" the 49G+ keyboard makes is rather loud
and hollow, but I do like it much better than the rubber key 49G
My 2 cents,
Gene
--
* These statements and opinions are mine alone and do not reflect my
employer's views. *
"Jose R. Martinez" <jose...@water.ca.gov> wrote in message
news:5ad0f68.03112...@posting.google.com...
Eddy Hondo
and you think it was made with few cheap materials basing that on high
profits and low weight in the calculator????
What about the other features??
jose...@water.ca.gov (Jose R. Martinez) wrote in message news:<5ad0f68.03112...@posting.google.com>...
Rafael Mill?n
>
> Now that (apparently) any early problems with key-press-but-nothing-happens
> appears to be fixed, almost everyone likes the 49G+ keyboard better than the
> 49G.
>
Well, missing keypresses from my keyboard appear to be fixed just
because I am not reporting them in the newsgroup, as it is not a very
interesting topic for people to read.
I think that those unhappy with their keyboards either return their
units or choose to live with them, perhaps temporarily (while waiting
for replacement). In either case, most of us will not continuously
post here about the problem.
However, I keep reading posts reporting missing keypresses in recently
purchased units. I plan to replace my 49+ under warranty because of
this issue, but am not willing to do many exchanges.
So, I am waiting for any evidence of new production units having
better keyboards. As far as I know there are just rumors, HP has not
even acknowledged that there is, or was, a problem. But I may be
wrong, am I?
Rafael Millán.
idan
I am now waiting so anxiously to my hp49g+ which i bought a week ago
but after reading this i feel that i have made a big mistake.
Does everyone can asure this statement about the bad keyboard ?
actually i think that even a keyboard of nails is better than the
hp49g's keyboard. I hate it so much that i prefer everything to it.
Does it really so bad ? How is the keyboard comparing to the hp 48 ?
Please - if someone of the developers of hp49g+ is reading this please
refer.this issue is starting to piss me off - especially when my
"baby" is on airmail now.... and there is no turning back is it ?
well, i guess i will stop waiting. I shouldnt have trusted you - HP.
very dissapointing from years and years of developing, thinking and
planning. I guess it reflects everything U.S didnt do recently : Ben
Laden is alive, Sadam is live and kicking, Arafat is celebrating his
hate to the americans and the worse of all : HP 49g+ is a
dissapointment...
Dont get me wrong. I am just kidding, people, U.S is a great coutry
with great people and great leaders and i am sure they will get these
maniacs...
Ok
I will inform you as soon as my package arrives.
Bye
Idan
Dave h
useless - the 49G's didnt miss keypresses like the 49G+. There is nothing
annoying like having to check every press has actually worked - or maybe
only finding out by an obvious wrong result, if you're lucky.
Regards
Dave
"Gene Wright" <dwri...@ford.invalid> wrote in message
news:bpj4ut$4j...@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com...
Cyrille de Brébisson
I can tell you one thing, I am now using my HP49G+ every day, and
programming it (on the calculator obviously)... I never did that with my 49G
as the keyboard was not convinient to do so.
regards, cyrille
"Dave h" <km...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_jfvb.40237$jf4.2...@news000.worldonline.dk...
Christopher Mark Gore
([ON]+[F6],[2]) for the whole keyboard ten times, and only got two
missed keys for the whole run, and I think those were both my fault.
Mine misses keys somewhat often in normal use. If the keys are
registering correctly in the test, but not in the normal use, it almost
has to be a software issue.
Jose R. Martinez
> So your going back to the 49g only cause the keyboard sounds hollow
> and you think it was made with few cheap materials basing that on high
> profits and low weight in the calculator????
Thinking a few years back when I was attending engineering school, I
can assure you I would not had been allowed to use this calculator in
an exam because of the distraction caused by the noise of some of the
keys - specially the enter key.
> What about the other features?
Surely the new processor - engine - of the 49g+ is an improvement in
computational power and speed to any previous HP calculator, but raw
power that is only part of the equation. 99% of all new vehicles
purchased are based on looks rather than engine power - since you know
what you are buying before you walk into a show room. More than 90% of
the time will be spent opening and closing doors, getting in the
driving seat and wondering about the quality of craftmanship in the
new vehicle. You will not buy that new car if you find defects in the
manufacturing or assembling process - although you know that it would
still take you wherever you want to go.
- J.R. Martinez
idan
other students in an exam ?
Gene Wright
What I have seen here are posts from people who purchased machines RECENTLY
who state that their keyboards do not miss keypresses, much if at all. I
think the problem has fairly well been resolved.
It is always possible that someone may buy a new machine now and actually
get one out of stock that was made several months ago, I guess, and perhaps
that contributes to the confusion.
What I know is this:
1) The only key that really gives me trouble on my unit is the "X" key, and
my 49G+ is a fairly early one. :-)
2) My 48GII keyboard is much better and it was made 3 weeks or so (hard to
tell with the serial numbers these days) later than my 49G+.
3) I'm SURE HP is aware of this concern, but I don't expect an announcement
about it.
4) The 49G keyboard was the #1 REAL complaint about the 49G (color really is
not a real complaint, IMO).
5) If you took a poll (and perhaps that's not a bad idea), I'd expect a
large majority of users to prefer the 49G+ keyboard over the 49G.
6) However, if you have an early keyboard that is giving you fits, that
won't help much.
So, I guess if I were you, I'd wait awhile longer before sending in your
unit for replacement (if that's what you want to do). But how you'll decide
when to do that based on posts here about keyboards may be a problem.
Good luck anyway. Sorry your keyboard doesn't work well.
Gene
--
* These statements and opinions are mine alone and do not reflect my
employer's views. *
"Rafael Mill?n" <ful...@hispavista.com> wrote in message
news:4f617758.03112...@posting.google.com...
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:b96fcd44.03112...@posting.google.com...
> So - Is it so loud like people say ? so loud that it could distract
> other students in an exam ?
Good way to get the average down and you result will climb the gauss...
NetPresentValue
Rafael Mill?n
>
> [...] I think the problem has fairly well been resolved.
So, HP detected the problem and resolved it?
> [...] I'm SURE HP is aware of this concern, but I don't
> expect an announcement about it.
But why not? The issue with power management in rom 1.20 was readily
and explicitly acknowledged with the release of version 1.22, so I
would expect a similar policy about the keyboard, at least from the
point when it was fixed.
Why they wouldn't say that they have fixed a problem? They fixed it
but want us to think they didn't? I could understand that (although
don't approve) if the problem were not as widely known as it is, in
order not to give it too much publicity. But everybody already knows.
> 5) If you took a poll (and perhaps that's not a bad idea), I'd expect a
> large majority of users to prefer the 49G+ keyboard over the 49G.
Myself, for instance. I think it is a much better designed keyboard,
regarding usability, than that of the 49G. I fully agree in this with
others, but mine fails too often.
> So, I guess if I were you, I'd wait awhile longer before sending in your
> unit for replacement (if that's what you want to do). But how you'll decide
> when to do that based on posts here about keyboards may be a problem.
Indeed, what you say is the logic thing to do. A well designed but
defective unit: that is what the warranty is for. Of course, I
shouldn't rely on users' posts for deciding when to exchange, but on
reliable and timely information provided by the manufacturer.
> Good luck anyway. Sorry your keyboard doesn't work well.
Ok, thanks for your interest.
Rafael Millán.
Gene Wright
news:4f617758.03112...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > [...] I think the problem has fairly well been resolved.
>
> So, HP detected the problem and resolved it?
Gene: Well, HP people read this group and the problem would have been hard
to miss.
> Why they wouldn't say that they have fixed a problem? They fixed it
> but want us to think they didn't? I could understand that (although
> don't approve) if the problem were not as widely known as it is, in
> order not to give it too much publicity. But everybody already knows.
Gene: I don't believe "Everybody" knows, since this usenet group isn't
everybody. However, businesses often have their own reasons for what they
will publicly make statements about and what they won't. I do not profess to
know the whys and why nots. My guess is that if they were going to announce
something, they already would have done so.
> Indeed, what you say is the logic thing to do. A well designed but
> defective unit: that is what the warranty is for. Of course, I
> shouldn't rely on users' posts for deciding when to exchange, but on
> reliable and timely information provided by the manufacturer.
> Rafael Millán.
Gene: I don't recall HP doing that on the 49G, so I'm not sure they'll do
that on the 49G+. A poll with user feedback and SN listed, accumulated into
a table, might be the best way of doing this.
That said, you DO see people who have bought new machines saying they have
little to no problem with the keyboard today.
My 2 cents (and lots of guesses)
Paul Brogger
The "4" and "SPC" keys were indeed very bad on my first unit (serial
number CN331...) I requested a replacement, and H-P sent a new
blister pack, including everything. The keyboard on the new unit
(serial # CN333...) works just fine.
Iffy keys are indeed a distraction. Keep after 'em until you're
satisfied -- I think the calculator is definitely worth it.
Jose R. Martinez
> What I have seen here are posts from people who purchased machines RECENTLY
> who state that their keyboards do not miss keypresses, much if at all. I
> think the problem has fairly well been resolved.
Not if there still are thousands of 49G+s wherehoused waiting to be
delivered.
> It is always possible that someone may buy a new machine now and actually
> get one out of stock that was made several months ago, I guess, and perhaps
> that contributes to the confusion.
You are correct here.
> 5) If you took a poll (and perhaps that's not a bad idea), I'd expect a
> large majority of users to prefer the 49G+ keyboard over the 49G.
Not me, but perhaps others. The 49G's keyboard shouldn't be the one to
compare against; the 48GX's should be.
> So, I guess if I were you, I'd wait awhile longer before sending in your
> unit for replacement (if that's what you want to do). But how you'll decide
> when to do that based on posts here about keyboards may be a problem.
I only have 30 days to return it before I am stuck with it forever.
- J.R. Martinez
Russ Ford
was a POS (SN 331). I took it back, they gave me a new one a week
later (SN 334). The calc is great - keyboard is less clunky, misses
no keypresses, etc. I still like my 48GX keyboard better, and I have
a lot of complaints about the menu layouts - some functions appear on
the KB and are available through a menu quite easily, and others that
I use frequently a lot require more menu navigation. I've done some
key assignments, and it's better. This is probably a result of me
using a 48GX since grade 9 (that makes 9 years now).
Bottom line - I love the new display, the symbolic math is fantastic,
and I like the different modes. I'm more that satisfied, and I think
some of the more minor bugs will be fixed as new ROM updates come
through. I think these "new" units are well worth the $208 CDN I
paid.
I'd get rid of my 48GX if I could bare to part with it.
James M. Prange
> Gene wrote
>
>
>>What I have seen here are posts from people who purchased machines RECENTLY
>>who state that their keyboards do not miss keypresses, much if at all. I
>>think the problem has fairly well been resolved.
But I notice that some have said something to the effect of "there's no
problem, you just have to press hard" or "you just have to be careful".
To me, that seems much like saying that a TV "works fine, you just have
to slap it right here when it loses synch". If they're satisfied with
that, ok, but I wouldn't be.
Are the problems really fixed, or did those who complained and asked for
a replacement just happen to get lucky with their replacements and the
rest "learned to live with it"?
I've been holding off on asking for a warranty replacement so soon,
because it may well be just be a hassle with the replacement just as bad
as the original.
Oh, and the keys that most often give me the problems often fail the
keyboard test routine as well as with normal use.
It seems to me that, for any key with a "click" type tactile feedback,
once I've pressed the key hard enough to get it to click, the force
required to press it the small remaining distance to make contact should
be low enough that I can't help pressing it all of the way. Or better
yet, like many switches, there should be a toggle effect such that once
I've pressed it far enough to click, the mechanism should toggle it the
rest of the way to make contact, and it should have hysteresis such that
it remains closed until I've allowed the key to come back up a bit.
Whether it's more of a design problem or a manufacturing problem I don't
know, but I find it amazing if quality assurance really didn't notice a
problem with so many defective keyboards. But all too often management
disregards what quality assurance tells them, and says "ship them,
they're good enough". Or has the attitude that inspection can make a
poor product into a good one, without seeming to realize that quality
products really depend on quality design and quality manufacturing, and
once a poor product is produced, about all that quality assurance can do
is let them know that there is a problem.
> Not if there still are thousands of 49G+s wherehoused waiting to be
> delivered.
>
>
>>It is always possible that someone may buy a new machine now and actually
>>get one out of stock that was made several months ago, I guess, and perhaps
>>that contributes to the confusion.
>
>
> You are correct here.
If HP were to "do the right thing", they'd recall all of the 49g+'s
still in the distribution channels and have them inspected for keyboard
problems. I don't know whether that would make them "refurbished
products" that they couldn't sell as "new", but if so, they could
probably use the units that passed inspection (with the ROM upgraded to
the latest release) as warranty replacements. If they could still sell
them as "new", then they could upgrade the ROM and repackage them along
with an upgraded CD-ROM.
If HP were to *really* "do the right thing", they'd notify all
registered owners of 49g+es with serial numbers indicating that they
might be defective that replacements were available for any units with
defective keyboards, and even put a notice to that effect on their
relevant web pages.
>>5) If you took a poll (and perhaps that's not a bad idea), I'd expect a
>>large majority of users to prefer the 49G+ keyboard over the 49G.
>
>
> Not me, but perhaps others. The 49G's keyboard shouldn't be the one to
> compare against; the 48GX's should be.
Agreed. A goal of making a product better than one with obvious problems
is poor when there's a much better product to compare it with. Actually,
I have a slight preference for the 48SX keyboard over the 48GX keyboard,
but the small difference might be just that the 48SX is older or
probably had more use.
It's as if the designers just didn't understand why the 49G keyboard was
so unsatisfactory as compared with the 48 series. "They want to feel a
click from plastic keys? Ok, we'll make plastic keys that click very
obviously when they're pressed." But maybe the concept that the click
should mean that contact is definitely made didn't quite get through to
them. Actually, the tactile click on the 49G is strong enough for me;
the problem is that it, somewhat less than my 49g+, occasionally clicks
without registering the keypress. Yes, enabling the audible keyclick
helps a bit when I'm in an environment where I can hear it, but it's not
nearly as effective as the tactile click.
>>So, I guess if I were you, I'd wait awhile longer before sending in your
>>unit for replacement (if that's what you want to do). But how you'll decide
>>when to do that based on posts here about keyboards may be a problem.
>
>
> I only have 30 days to return it before I am stuck with it forever.
How so? My warranty says 12 months.
--
Regards,
James
Rafael Mill?n
> > So, HP detected the problem and resolved it?
>
> Gene: Well, HP people read this group and the problem would have been hard
> to miss.
I agree, but that only explains how HP detected the problem, doesn't
tell anything about HP fixing it or not.
> > But everybody already knows.
>
> Gene: I don't believe "Everybody" knows, since this usenet group isn't
> everybody.
Well, 'everybody' is a very strong word; I meant knowledge of the
problem is widespread, and, of course, in no way restricted to people
who read this group! This kind of problem is hardly overlooked by real
users, whatever their readings. And they tell to their friends,
colleagues, students, etc.
> However, businesses often have their own reasons for what they
> will publicly make statements about and what they won't. I do not profess to
> know the whys and why nots. My guess is that if they were going to announce
> something, they already would have done so.
We don't know not just the whys and why nots, we don't know even the
whats. And these we should know, then we could get rid of so much
guesses.
> Gene: I don't recall HP doing that on the 49G [...]
I don't understand your reference to the 49G here. I was not aware of
a similar or comparable situation with the 49G.
> That said, you DO see people who have bought new machines saying they have
> little to no problem with the keyboard today.
I think we are talking about defective units. We are seeing people
with no problems from the very beginning. We also see people now with
new machines and problems.
Assuming that new bought machines with problems must be older units
with several weeks at the store is wishful thinking. Why are we going
to assume that? Because we wish the problems were fixed, and we could
trust in an exchange.
Perhaps it is true, time (or that poll you say) will tell. Only it
seems more logical and correct that HP would tell.
Rafael Millán.
Sam Hughes
says...
> So - Is it so loud like people say ? so loud that it could distract
> other students in an exam ?
>
Now that I think about it, that might be a good thing. >:-]]
idan
Hi !
Can you please tell where did you buy your unit ? Have you got the
replacement from them ? or from HP ?
Thank you
Idan
Gene Wright
news:4f617758.03112...@posting.google.com...
> > > So, HP detected the problem and resolved it?
> >
> > Gene: Well, HP people read this group and the problem would have been
hard
> > to miss.
>
> I agree, but that only explains how HP detected the problem, doesn't
> tell anything about HP fixing it or not.
Gene: I think that's assuming alot. New users are reporting much better
keyboards. Where did these better keyboards come from if not because someone
made tweaks in the manufacturing process? If HP were not fixing them, there
would be the same error rate.
> > Gene: I don't recall HP doing that on the 49G [...]
>
> I don't understand your reference to the 49G here. I was not aware of
> a similar or comparable situation with the 49G.
Gene: Users complained a great deal about the 49G keyboard quality. It was
discussed extensively on this newsgroup back then. HP never made any public
announcement about it or changes that were made.
> I think we are talking about defective units. We are seeing people
> with no problems from the very beginning. We also see people now with
> new machines and problems.
>
> Assuming that new bought machines with problems must be older units
> with several weeks at the store is wishful thinking. Why are we going
> to assume that? Because we wish the problems were fixed, and we could
> trust in an exchange.
Gene: I disagree here. Serial numbers would be the way to tell, and there
have been far, FAR fewer reports of keyboard problems on more recently
MANUFACTURED units. Just because someone bought a unit doesn't mean it was
manufactured recently. People here who HAVE exchanged units have reported
better keyboards, in almost all cases. You can read about some of them in
this very thread!
And, there's always the possibility of trolls, as much as that sounds
paranoid. People who might like to stir things up by saying they have
problems when they don't. Who might do this? Who knows. There are always
possiblities of college students who are TI devotees. :-) It happened when
the HP49G was introduced.
Again, newer units are NOT displaying KB problems at anywhere near the rate
people reported initially.
And, I too don't understand the "30 day" reference. HP units are warranteed
against defects for 1 year. If your reseller is telling you something
different, that is incorrect, I believe.
Here's to hoping HP continues to tweak their products to make them better!
Rafael Mill?n
>
> Gene: I think that's assuming alot.
Who is assuming a lot? You said we need a poll verifying serial
numbers and keyboard qualities in order to know, in which I agree, but
what do you need the poll for? You already know that a report of a bad
keyboard now is:
a) an older production machine purchased now, or
b) a troll, or
c) a TI devotee.
Indeed it sounds paranoid.
And it seems like your reference to the 49G mean this: people also
complained about the 49G's keyboard, nobody knows even now if HP did
something about it, and HP did no announcement regarding the issue.
So, we can assume that HP has fixed the G+'s keyboard now, as also
they have done no announcement?
Are you being serious in this thread? I would like to know if HP has
fixed the keyboard or has not, I hope it has, I accept it could be. We
all would like HP to tell us, but, as they don't, I thought we were
just trying to arrive to a reasonable conclusion, not to an act of
faith!
> [...]
> Again, newer units are NOT displaying KB problems at anywhere near the rate
> people reported initially.
No announcements, no poll, no valid conclusion. Could be positive
reports come from trolls or HP devotees? I will refrain from
suggesting that perhaps they are units of _future_ production ;-)
> And, I too don't understand the "30 day" reference. HP units are warranteed
> against defects for 1 year. If your reseller is telling you something
> different, that is incorrect, I believe.
Someone mentioned "30 day" but was not me. I think it was someone who
mail ordered the 49+, referring to a no-questions money-back warranty.
My 49+ has a one year warranty, I only hope I have not to wait the
whole year before we KNOW the keyboard problems have been fixed.
Rafael Millán.
Mike Mander
> ...
> through. I think these "new" units are well worth the $208 CDN I
> paid.
> ...
You're not on the West Coast in the Vancouver area, are you? If you
are, I was just wondering where you managed to find a store that has
the 49g+ in stock?
Your post made it sound as though you just exchanged the unit in a
store and with a shaw.ca mail...
Regards,
Mike Mander
Jose R. Martinez
> because it may well be just be a hassle with the replacement just as bad
> as the original.
For sure the quality of the newly manufactured calcs should improve in
a daily basis, but it will take weeks before any manufacturing
problems have been fully resolved and we get what we deserve out of
the production line.
> Whether it's more of a design problem or a manufacturing problem I don't
> know, but I find it amazing if quality assurance really didn't notice a
> problem with so many defective keyboards. But all too often management
> disregards what quality assurance tells them, and says "ship them,
> they're good enough". Or has the attitude that inspection can make a
> poor product into a good one, without seeming to realize that quality
> products really depend on quality design and quality manufacturing, and
> once a poor product is produced, about all that quality assurance can do
> is let them know that there is a problem.
> If HP were to *really* "do the right thing", they'd notify all
> registered owners of 49g+es with serial numbers indicating that they
> might be defective that replacements were available for any units with
> defective keyboards, and even put a notice to that effect on their
> relevant web pages.
Seems doable, but in this case difficult to achive because of
conflicting information. There are two serial numbers reported by the
calc; one on the back of the case and the other one you can read once
you do the [+]-[-]-Reset thing. Which one is the serial number to go
by? Any serious manufacturer will make sure this serial number is the
same - unless we trully have a piece of equipment with two serial
numbers associated with it.
> > Not me, but perhaps others. The 49G's keyboard shouldn't be the one to
> > compare against; the 48GX's should be.
>
> Agreed. A goal of making a product better than one with obvious problems
> is poor when there's a much better product to compare it with. Actually,
> I have a slight preference for the 48SX keyboard over the 48GX keyboard,
> but the small difference might be just that the 48SX is older or
> probably had more use.
We are on the same page her.
> > I only have 30 days to return it before I am stuck with it forever.
>
> How so? My warranty says 12 months.
When returning items, I rather deal with the vendor selling it. I like
Fry's Electronics because of their 30-day no-questions-asked return
policy. Most big companies - like HP - are difficult to deal with when
returning defective merchandize and will make your life misserable
asking a million question as to why you think there is a defect in
their product before they will issue a RMA. So, when I said that I had
only 30 days to return the defective product, I was reffering to
Fry's. Besides, I like the human contact and the effective
communication that's only possible person to person.
Contacting HP about returning a defective product must be next to
impossible right now knowing the growing number of users wanting their
machines replaced - not mention the difficulty in navigating their
telephone menu system.
Having said that, let me tell you that I am posting this message one
hour after having received a NEW hp49g+ provided by my employer - they
like me a lot and will give me what I ask for. The 'clicky' noise of
the keyboard is still there and consistent throught all the keys, but
livable with. I cannot report or comment on missing key-presses yet.
This new calc has two serial numbers as well. The firmware-embeded
serial number is CN33717777, and the case-engraved serial number is
CN33308236. Again, I don't know which is which, or both.
Overall, to this new calc I received today, I give it a partial
passing grade since I have yet to test it for missed key-presses. If
no missed key-presses are experienced, I will have to give it an A-.
To the first one being returned, I gave it a D- grade.
- J.R. Martinez
Markus Sigg
it is very consolatory to learn that I am not the only one who is
very unhappy with his HP49G+'s keyboard. For statistical purposes:
My unit is CN33102559, bought last week at Dynatech in Germany.
The multiplication key and the ENTER key are really bad and miss
many key presses. I have to hit them right from the center to get
a clear response.
If I understand all the messages here correctly, the keyboard
problem is maybe fixed in the meantime, and the serial number of
my machine suggests that this is a rather early exemplar.
As this is a manufacturing failure, I don't want to resend the
calculator to Dynatech. Instead I filled out the support formular
at HP's web side the day before yesterday and asked what to do
to get a replacement calculator. No answer until now. I will give
them one more day before I try telephone support. If HP refuses to
exchange the calculator, I am forced to send it back to Dynatech,
who probably would return it to HP also, which means more work
and more costs for all.
Does anybody here have experiences with the online support of
HP Germany? What response times do they have?
Regards,
Markus
John Evers
now own two 49G+ units. The first purchased on day of release from
Sampson cables, the second one I ordered from the hp website
yesterday, and I got it today. It had 4 keys that appeared to be
completley dead. The MODE key was one of them, and at first I could
not even switch to RPN.
**** HERE IS THE SOLUTION ***********
Grab the non functioning button in a pinching manner, griping both
sides of the button. Now press down VERY firmly, and bottom the button
out against it's contact. Now wiggle the button side to side rather
vigerously. This will rub the contact material internally on the
keyboard.
All of my keys now function perfectly on both 49G+ units. I suspect
that during manufacturing, something has possibly caused a film to
form on the contacts inside of the keyboard.
As a quick fix recomendation to hp. A simple machine could be built to
do this right after manufacturing, and before final packaging.
Now if everyone would display a positive attitude twords a product
that I am glad was pushed hard into production, we WILL get all the
cooperation from the hp calculator division to make us all happy.
STOP YER' BITCHIN
John Evers
Jose R. Martinez
a daily basis, but it will take weeks before any manufacturing
problems have been fully resolved and we get what we deserve out of
the production line.
everybody is on the same page. What do I mean with that? Well, there is
conflicting information with respect to the serial number of each calc.
On the two calculators I've had in my hands, I've seen two serial
numbers reported by each of the calcs. One is engraved on the back of
the case and the other one you can read once you do the [+]-[-]-Reset
Any serious manufacturer will make sure this serial number is the
same - unless we trully have a piece of equipment with two serial
numbers associated with it.
When returning items, I rather deal with the vendor selling it
their 30-day no-questions-asked return policy. Most big companies
- like HP - are difficult to deal with when returning defective
merchandize and will make your life misserable asking a million
question as to why you think there is a defect in their product
before they will issue a RMA. So, when I said that I had only 30
days to return the defective product, I was reffering to Fry's.
Besides, I like the human contact and the effective communication
that's only possible person to person.
Contacting HP about returning a defective product must be next to
impossible right now knowing the growing number of users wanting their
machines replaced - not to mention the difficulty in navigating their
telephone menu system.
Having said that, let me tell you that I am posting this message one
hour after having received a NEW hp49g+ provided by my employer - they
like me a lot and will give me what I ask for. The 'clicky' noise of
the keyboard is still there and consistent throught all the keys, but
livable with. I cannot report or comment on missing key-presses yet.
This new calc has two serial numbers as well. The firmware-embeded
serial number is CN33717777, and the case-engraved serial number is
CN33308236. Again, I don't know which is which, or both. Any ideas
on this issue?
Overall, to this new calc I received today, I give it a partial
passing grade - due to the uncertainty - since I have yet to test it
Heiko Arnemann
"John Evers" <jo...@pssllc.net> schrieb
snipped
> **** HERE IS THE SOLUTION ***********
>
> Grab the non functioning button in a pinching manner, griping both
> sides of the button. Now press down VERY firmly, and bottom the button
> out against it's contact. Now wiggle the button side to side rather
> vigerously. This will rub the contact material internally on the
> keyboard.
> All of my keys now function perfectly on both 49G+ units. I suspect
> that during manufacturing, something has possibly caused a film to
> form on the contacts inside of the keyboard.
snipped
That sounds good.
Can anybody confirm the John's experience, and if how would
you describe the procedure.
Thanks in advance.
Heiko
Wolfgang Rautenberg
> John Evers schrieb
> ********* HERE IS THE SOLUTION ***********
> > Grab the non functioning button in a pinching manner, griping both
> > sides of the button. Now press down VERY firmly, and bottom the button
> > out against it's contact. Now wiggle the button side to side rather
> > vigerously. This will rub the contact material internally on the
> > keyboard.
> > All of my keys now function perfectly on both 49G+ units. I suspect
> > that during manufacturing, something has possibly caused a film to
> > form on the contacts inside of the keyboard.
> snipped
> That sounds good.
> you describe the procedure.
I confirm it, with some proviso. "Grab" means grab the key with the
nails of thumb and forfinger. Then press it down as much as you can and
wriggle at least 20 times. In this way I treated the ON-key, the TAN-key
and my worst key, SPC. And in this very moment, they seem to work. That
this procedure is reliable should be confirmed by at least 7 people.
- Wolfgang
Markus Sigg
I tested this procedure with my unwilling multiplication key.
Indeed, the contact is significantly better now! So I won't make
use of the 14-day-money-back guarantee, but keep the calculator
and watch how the situation develops over the coming weeks and
months. If the problems reappear, there is still the 12 months
warranty.
It would be interesting to know what exactly went wrong with
these keys. If it is a corrosion problem, then it *will*
reappear, and if the procedure is applied too often, the
contacts themselves could rub off. If there was just some kind
of externally introduced film on the contacts, the contacts
should stay clean now - as long as no other films (coffee,
tee, ...) are applied to them. I am lucky to be a non-smoker.
Anyway, many thanks to John Evers! I think I can develop a more
positive relationship to my calculator now. I just have to flush
the new software and to print about 900 pages (I don't want to read
all this on a computer screen).
Regards,
Markus
Toby
Toby
"Wolfgang Rautenberg" <ra...@math.fu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:3FC714FD...@math.fu-berlin.de...
Wolfgang Rautenberg
> It would be interesting to know what exactly went wrong with
> these keys. If it is a corrosion problem, then it *will*
> reappear, and if the procedure is applied too often, the
> contacts themselves could rub off. If there was just some kind
> of externally introduced film on the contacts, the contacts
> should stay clean now - as long as no other films (coffee,
> tee, ...) are applied to them. I am lucky to be a non-smoker.
Indeed, if it is corrosion problem, the designers of the HP49+ should
tell us. A "no answer" as mostly would be an absolutly unfair play.
A pitty that Steen doesn't through away his 49+. Before he could open it
to investigate exactly what is going on beneath the keyboard.
I would say, not only 7 people but all in this NG which met the problem
should report whether John's procedure was successful on which keys.
- Wolfgang
PS. Nicotin: Our network experts (who supervise several hundred PCs,
work stations and servers) told me just yesterday: Nicotin is good for
conservation. A PC lives the longer the more its owner smokes :-)
Wolfgang Rautenberg
Markus Sigg wrote:
> It would be interesting to know what exactly went wrong with
> these keys. If it is a corrosion problem, then it *will*
> reappear, and if the procedure is applied too often, the
> contacts themselves could rub off. If there was just some kind
> of externally introduced film on the contacts, the contacts
> should stay clean now - as long as no other films (coffee,
> tee, ...) are applied to them. I am lucky to be a non-smoker.
Indeed, if it is corrosion problem, the designers of the HP49+ should
tell us. A "no answer" as mostly would be an absolutly unfair play.
A pitty that Steen doesn't throw away his 49+. Before he could open it
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
The PC lives longer than the smoker - unless...the tar kills the circuits!
My 49g+ [ . ] key is finally working <hurrah>
after wiggling it vigoriously hard-pressed for about #2000h ticks
NPV
Bruce Horrocks
<ra...@math.fu-berlin.de> writes
>> That sounds good.
>> Can anybody confirm John's experience, and if how would
>> you describe the procedure.
>
>I confirm it, with some proviso. "Grab" means grab the key with the
>nails of thumb and forfinger. Then press it down as much as you can and
>wriggle at least 20 times. In this way I treated the ON-key, the
>TAN-key and my worst key, SPC. And in this very moment, they seem to
>work. That this procedure is reliable should be confirmed by at least 7
>people.
Borg 1 of 7 reporting: this technique fixed the keys on my HP17bii so it
looks like a general purpose fix for all of the newer models.
Regards,
--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
<firstname>@<surname>.plus.com -- fix the obvious for email