hp 49g+ vs Ti 89 titanium
erinb...@hotmail.com
the ti 89 Ti. I am working on a masters in engineering with several
advanced math courses and fluids and thermodynamics courses. Other
than the obvious bias, which one of these two would be better? I
prefer RPN, but I was unable to find what the HP does as far as
equation (single and multiple) solving, and other advanced user
functions for differential equations. If you have experience with
both, or if you can enlighten me on the features and capabilities of
the HP I would appreciated it alot.
Thanks,
ME
Guy Macon
Here are some comparisons. Note that some things like memory size,
I/O ports, clock, etc. vary from the calculators reviewed, but the
basic functions and keyboard layout stay the same.
http://www.laurowski.de/hp49/ti89hp49_comparison/ti89-hp49.htm
( http://www.hpcalc.org/viewzip.php?id=4738&file=ti89-hp49.pdf )
http://www.technoplaza.net/calculators/49vs89.php
http://www.area48.com/49/49vs89.html (better copy in zipped
pdf: http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49/docs/misc/49vs89.zip )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-89_series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-49_series
--
Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:1126935806.0...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
www.hpcalc.org has all the programs that you need
Did you know that you can further anhance the speed of the 49g+
via a software trick? It's the fastest beast around.
The SD card gives you new possibilities
The ARM CPU can be programmed in C using PC tools.
VPN
Luke Morrison
news:M5QWe.25100$yi5....@reader1.news.jippii.net...
> The ARM CPU can be programmed in C using PC tools.
In all fairness, it should be noted that there is a distribution of the 68k
GCC target that you can use with the TI89ti to create RAM-based programs.
And TI's FlashStudio allows you to write flash applications in C.
But neither of them will be as fast as the 49g+ because of the ancient CPU.
- Luke
Bhuvanesh
> I am looking at replacing my hp 49g, and I am looking at the 49g+ or
> the ti 89 Ti. I am working on a masters in engineering with several
> advanced math courses and fluids and thermodynamics courses. Other
> than the obvious bias, which one of these two would be better? I
> prefer RPN, but I was unable to find what the HP does as far as
> equation (single and multiple) solving, and other advanced user
> functions for differential equations.
Ordinary or partial?
There's Lars Frederiksen's DiffEq package, which doesn't have an HP
equivalent (that I know of):
http://www.paxm.org/symbulator/download/am.html
I have a few exact PDE solving routines in my MathTools package:
http://technicalc.org/bbhatt/#math
Since I last released MathTools, I've made some improvements to the PDE
solving capability. If you decide to go for the TI-89T and are
interested, e-mail me (lalu_bhatt*at*yahoo.com) and I'll send it to
you.
As for RPN, there's an RPN interface for the TI's:
http://www.paxm.org/symbulator/download/rpn.html
I haven't yet had a chance to do a thorough analysis of how the HP and
TI handle algebraic (systems of) equations, but as far as I can tell,
the TI's have a slight edge here. TI also recently improved the
inequality solving abilities of the TI-89T and Voyage 200, if that's
relevant.
Since you'll be doing physics, you might find the Arrays package
useful:
http://technicalc.org/bbhatt/#math
It helps with tensor analysis. The higher-level routines were written
for general relativity, but of course it can be applied in other areas
also.
Hope this helps.
Bhuvanesh.
isaa...@gmail.com
Me 'n my buds recently got out of the same situation you're in. We've
had plenty of heavy, heavy math courses, fluids and thermo. 2 of us
still punched on the ancient 48SX and the rest used any old TI or
Casio. (Unless your prof is insane and has you solve these things
numerically during an exam).
Unless you're working in the field all the time, any serious work we
head for the computer and whip out Matlab (sometimes Mathcad, Maple or
Mathematica).
Especially now, which, even undergrad, doesn't have a laptop to lug
around?
As much as I like my 48SX and 49G+, if I'm doing heavy lifting, I turn
to Maple and Matlab. It's way easier and more powerful. (And more
expensive, but as I suspect, you already have a computer).
Isaac
erinb...@hotmail.com
programs that you mentioned, though I do have access to all but maple
and mathematica on the University computers. Also, I have not had a
class where we haven't solved problems numerically or symbolically on
tests. Anyways, I am looking for something to assist on
linear/nonlinear differential equations, solving systems of equations,
and systems of multiple differential equations. My line of reasoning
is that the calculator will be less expensive than the math programs,
and I will be able to use it on tests, unlike a laptop, so I might as
well go that route. Also, I like the 49g, but there are some features,
processor speed is one of them, that I don't particularly care for.
That is why I am comparing the 49g+ and the 89Titanium.
Thanks for the list of reviews, they were very helpful in finding the
capabilities of each calculator, though there are still somethings that
I think I will have to test on each to find out for sure. Tried the Ti
at the store today, and it seems user friendly enough with the
graphical menu. Is the HP similar to that, or does it have the same
system as the 49g?
Thanks,
ME
Volker Neurath
>prefer RPN, but I was unable to find what the HP does as far as
>equation (single and multiple) solving, and other advanced user
>functions for differential equations.
Why then don't you go and download the user-manual of the 49+ from the
HP Website?!
I did and i'm sure now, that i will by it during the next 2 months.
Volker
--
Besides, i'm of the opinon, that TCPA has to be stopped
Guy Macon
isaa...@gmail.com wrote:
(About choosing between the 49g+ vs Ti 89 titanium)
Not having access to a computer (or having access to a computer but
not having a Math program and a programming language) is something
that only happens in classrooms. In the real world, you have a PC
even in the field.
I have nearly every high-end calculator ever made, but I always seem
to grab my HP 28 or my TI-34 II (a much under appreciated calculator)
for simple stuff and use a PC for serious mathin'.
That being said, students still need high-end calculators. I am a
huge HP fan, but he reality is that the student should look around
the classroom and get what everyone else is using. In most cases
(but with notable exceptions in some high-level classes) that will
be a TI 83/84 series, so the student should get the top of that line,
which is currently the TI-84 Plus Silver Edition.
I also recommend having a TI-34 II (or several, at roughly $10 each
when on sale). It has enough screen to let you edit an equation, is
hard to destroy, and the battery is good for 5-10 years of heavy daily
use.
bokubob
integrals.
The units come in handy as a good double check to make sure everything
worked out right. I think the HP has the upper hand here, as the units
are very easy to work with, and very powerful.
For integrals, I like the HP better, as the step by step option is very
nice, and it often has an output in a more usable than the TI's form
that often requires some expanding or collapsing.
Anyway, I sold my TI-89 to get a HP 49g+ for very similar classes as
you mention, and I have been very happy with it.
-Jonathan
bokubob
have no idea how your post deals with this guys question. I guess
that's the reply nobody likes to read...
-Jonathan
lfmor...@gmail.com
He made the suggestion that one would be better off using the same
calculator as the rest of the class is using. That way, people can
mimmick the keystrokes off their classmates in order to get the right
number to fill-in for their assignments.
In the vast majority of North American High Schools, the TI83/TI84
series of calculators is REQUIRED for any upper-level math classes.
So, the vast majority of students already own a TI83/TI84 upon entering
University. Therefore, by the mod rule, the TI83/TI84 is the best
calculator to own.
Of course, any masters Engineering student is perfectly capable of
thinking for himself, and thus should be able to figure out how to use
any graphing calculaotr. So, the "use the same software as your
classmates" argument does not necessarily hold the same weight.
Instead, focus on the issue of "understand the math that lies behind
what your classmates are doing, and apply it to your software".
Already having used an HP49G, you'll find the software interface of the
HP49g+ identical. There's something to be said for that ... you'll
already know how to use it.
If you've seen the drop-down menus of the TI89ti and you're hooked on
that, then you'll be disappointed with the HP49g+.
As far as I can tell, the HP49g+ and the TI89ti are neck-and-neck as
far as speed goes. Until you start running compiled assembly or C
programs. Then the HP49g+ wins by a mile.
- Luke
Guy Macon
bokubob wrote:
>..he already has a 49G.
>I have no idea how your post deals with this guys question.
You appear to be confusing this thread with another, related
thread. I only addressed to comments "isaa...@gmail.com"
made. He doesn't apear to have a 49G, and he asked no questions.
That's why this thread has a different subject line.
erinb...@hotmail.com
systems of DE?
A.L.
>I am looking at replacing my hp 49g, and I am looking at the 49g+ or
>the ti 89 Ti. I am working on a masters in engineering with several
>advanced math courses and fluids and thermodynamics courses. Other
>than the obvious bias, which one of these two would be better?
If you don't need keyboard, HP is much better.
A.L.
m...@privacy.net
> In most cases
>(but with notable exceptions in some high-level classes) that will
>be a TI 83/84 series, so the student should get the top of that line,
>which is currently the TI-84 Plus Silver Edition.
Thanks for that advice!!
As I'm a 47 yr old college student needing to buy a
graphing calc and didn't really know what to get! I'm
taking college algebra right now
Since I'm planning to take further math classes..... I
was even thinking of getting the top of line Voyage
200.
Do you STILL advise the TI-84 Plus silver for me? Over
the Voyage 200?
A.L.
It was said more than once: get the calculator that is REQUIRED for
the class. TI-84 is different line than Voyage.
A.L.
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:1127151975....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
X
> Already having used an HP49G, you'll find the software interface of the
> HP49g+ identical. There's something to be said for that ... you'll
> already know how to use it.
A very good point
> As far as I can tell, the HP49g+ and the TI89ti are neck-and-neck as
> far as speed goes. Until you start running compiled assembly or C
> programs. Then the HP49g+ wins by a mile.
AND
you can change the speed og the 49g+ with a simple software trick
With that it is faster than any TI so far !!
VPN
Guy Macon
m...@privacy.net wrote:
An interesting question...
As I mentioned. it is important to take into consideration
what everyone else is using. What are the other people in
your college algebra class using?
My first bit of advice is a no-brainer: Buy a couple of
TI-34 II calculators for $10-20 each and use them for your
day-to-day math work. It is quicker and easier to use, the
battery lasts 5-10 years, it is hard to break, and it is far
less costly to lose/break/wear out/get stolen. If it can be
done on the TI-34 II you will get it done a lot faster. Then
choose a high-end solution for its ability to do high end
things.
About that high end solution...
I don't advise buying a calculator now for your future math
classes. There may be a better solution at that time. Buy
for your current needs.
The Voyage 200 has a real advantage for graphing in that it
has a bigger screen with more pixels (240x128 pixels). The
TI-89 has 160x100 pixels, the TI-84 has 96x64. The HP-49G+
has 131x80 pixels. The qwerty keyboard is nice, too. But...
...but on the other hand, a bottom-of-the-line PDA (A Palm IIIc
on eBay for example) ImagiMath or powerOne-Graph would be cheaper,
smaller, have more resolution (and color!) and might be a better
solution for you. I say "might be" because I haven't used those
products; you will have to do your homework (and, of course,
post your findings here for the next fellow!).
I can tell you this with almost 100% certainty; when you leave
school and start working, your Voyage 200, TI-89, TI-84 or
HP-49G+ will either be gathering dust or will be used only for
tasks that the TI-34 II could have handled 99% of the time.
You will be doing your math on a PC with a math program.
Borris
> you can change the speed of the 49g+ with a simple software trick
How?
timwe...@gmail.com
It will help with processor only operations, but anything with a lot of
memory accesses will not benefit much/at all because the memory is
currently running at it's maximum speed. I've actually seen some
things slow down slightly strange as it seems.
TW
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:1127216988....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
The memory limits to 119MHz
The CPU has both data and instruction cache 16+16
Thus even the 203 can be used during a long program
The software can be found on the www.hpcalc.org
VPN
Steen Schmidt
> The memory limits to 119MHz
> The CPU has both data and instruction cache 16+16
> Thus even the 203 can be used during a long program
> The software can be found on the www.hpcalc.org
Have you tried that software lately? Last I tried adjusting the clock
and memory speeds with that software it crashed my calc...
Regards
Steen
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
news:43303091$0$84014$edfa...@dtext01.news.tele.dk...
Not with ROM 2.00 - I need to restest
Thank you for the update, Mr. Schmidt
Neo
Steen Schmidt
> Not with ROM 2.00 - I need to restest
> Thank you for the update, Mr. Schmidt
Mr. Schmidt? When did that happen? :-)
Regards
Steen
m...@privacy.net
Thanks Guy!
Very clear thinking. Thanks for sharing it!
I will NOT invest a lot of money in a calculator then.
Like you said... once I leave school I may not ever use
it again. Better to do high end math on a PC. I can
see that logic. <G>
Maybe I should just buy a cheap Casio graphing calc?
They are abt half the cost of a TI 89.
m...@privacy.net
>What are the other people in
>your college algebra class using?
Most are using a TI graphing calc.
But a lot of them are using a scientific calc only with
no graphing functions.
The course syllabus says either one is fine.....
graphing or scientific. But I think it will be useful
to have graphing functions. But I could get that in a
Casio graphing calc at less cost than a TI 84
Mr. Anderson
What, the update? You updated my information!
Your name? It came from the Main Computer System I guess?
AND
my name is Neo
crawla...@lycos.com
used Maple several times, and have almost always found it be a
frustrating experience.
One nice thing about a calculator is that you own it and can take it
anywhere, so you can become very familiar with it. You'll know what it
can and can't do, and how to do it quickly. I had to use Maple on lab
computers, and it's so unintuitive that if you don't use it regularly
(and I only used it when I had to), you'll forget a lot. Most of the
time I spent with it was simply going through the help files, trying to
figure out how to make it do what I wanted it to do, as opposed to
working on my actual math problem.
Plus, you're interfacing with those programs with a mouse and
traditional keyboard, which were designed for word processing, not math
entry. You have to remember (if not look up) every function and type
it out (which programs use sqr and which use sqrt for squareroot? some
might even have the full word)
On the other hand, calculator keyboards are designed specifically for
entering math. Plus, things like HP's equation or matrix writers make
entry much more enjoyable.
As for a TI89 Titanium versus a 49G+... They're both great calculators,
but many of their abilities overlap, and I frankly use them almost
interchangably. I would say, as a general rule, that the TI89 is 3 out
of 4 times easier to learn, while the 49G+ is 3 out of 4 times more
powerful. So, they're aimed at slightly different audiences, with the
49G+ being easier to recommend to the more serious math user.
As a simple example of how they're different, the TI89 always tries to
expand functions of complex variables into its real and imaginary
parts. The 49G+ doesn't simplify anything unless you tell it to. What
is better depends on what you want. The TI89 gives you less control
(what if you *want* to leave arcsin(a + b*i) that way? It's certainly
more concise than what the TI89 does with it), but it also requires
less prompting and knowledge on the part of the user.
One thing I have noticed about the TI89 that I kind of like better --
and it's related to engineering -- is that it automatically simplifies
units. For instance, if you have a newton (1_N in the calculator), and
divide it by a kilogram, you get 1 meter per second squared. Whereas
on the 49G+, you just have 1_N/kg. It won't convert any unit to any
other unless you tell it what to convert it to, which isn't that
helpful, because if the expression of units is complicated, you won't
know what it simplifies to without a bit of work.
As an example of something the 49G+ does better, it can work not only
with undefined variables (which is the essence of symbolic math, I
guess), but also undefined functions. For instance, if f and g are
undefined, and you want to calculate the derivative f(g(x)), the 49G+
will give you the chain rule. The TI89 will just leave it as
d(f(g(x)),x). If you don't have a reference book handy, you could, for
instance, use it to calculate the various operators, like del or the
laplacian, in coordinate systems like spherical.
Once you get used to the stack nature of RPL, it's easier to get it to
do what you want than TI Basic. RPL works the same way the calculator
does when a human is manually using it, while TI Basic doesn't. For
instance, one of the most common things to do with a program is to have
a line like x = x + 1, to change a variable based on what it previously
was. Since the TI89 is a symbolic calculator, you might want to use it
for applications where you change a *function* based on what it was.
Well, x+1 -> x still works. But f(x) + 1 -> f(x) creates a circular
reference. If you were doing this manually, you could evaluate f(x),
then type ans+1 -> f(x). But you can't use ans in programming. (I've
gotten around that somehow, but not easily) But it can be done on the
49G+, naturally and easily (x f EVAL 1 + 'f(x)' SWAP = DEFINE)
bokubob
> For instance, if you have a newton (1_N in the calculator), and
> divide it by a kilogram, you get 1 meter per second squared. Whereas
> on the 49G+, you just have 1_N/kg. It won't convert any unit to any
> other unless you tell it what to convert it to, which isn't that
> helpful, because if the expression of units is complicated, you won't
> know what it simplifies to without a bit of work.
Units->Tools->UBASE is your friend!
1_N/kg
UBASE
1_m/s^2
When I use it, I often say to myself "all UBASE are belong to us" but I
think that's optional.
-Jonathan
crawla...@lycos.com
I guess this is an illustration that the 49G+ gives you more options,
but you have to know what you're doing.
Borris
> can and can't do, and how to do it quickly. I had to use Maple on lab
> computers, and it's so unintuitive that if you don't use it regularly
> (and I only used it when I had to), you'll forget a lot. Most of the
> time I spent with it was simply going through the help files, trying to
> figure out how to make it do what I wanted it to do, as opposed to
> working on my actual math problem.
I'm astonished that you find anything harder to learn/use than the 49g+. It's
the ultimate geek machine, requiring you to memorise several hundred functions,
unless you know approximately what you're looking for and can find it in the cat
or the arcane menu system.
Guy Macon
m...@privacy.net wrote:
You must be looking at the Casio FX9750. For the fellow
who uses a scientific calculator (did you get that $20
TI-34 II yet? Isn't the fraction mode great?) but wishes
to be able to do some simple graphing, there are a few
interesting choices at the low end:
$33 HP 9g
$40 Casio FX-7400G Plus
$50 Casio FX9750
$70 HP 39g+
Keep in mind that a super-duper million function high-end
calc is often *less* useful when doing simple things.
--
Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
m...@privacy.net
>You must be looking at the Casio FX9750.
Yep that's the model I was referring to
Is it OK for a simple low end graphing calc?
A.L.
>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>
>>I can tell you this with almost 100% certainty; when you leave
>>school and start working, your Voyage 200, TI-89, TI-84 or
>>HP-49G+ will either be gathering dust or will be used only for
>>tasks that the TI-34 II could have handled 99% of the time.
>>You will be doing your math on a PC with a math program.
>
>Thanks Guy!
>
>Very clear thinking. Thanks for sharing it!
>
>I will NOT invest a lot of money in a calculator then.
>Like you said... once I leave school I may not ever use
>it again. Better to do high end math on a PC. I can
>see that logic. <G>
>
Maybe you will... For mortgage calculations and for checking whether
car dealer is cheating or not...
>Maybe I should just buy a cheap Casio graphing calc?
>They are abt half the cost of a TI 89.
Yes, you can. Programmable Casio costs about 50 bucks, and the only
functionality that is missing compared to TI 89 is the ability to do
symbolic caclculations.
A.L.
Guy Macon
m...@privacy.net wrote:
Don't know. Like I said, I use a PC for such things.
My guess is that the $33 HP 9g or the $70 HP 39g+
would be better choices.
dmac...@ppeng.com
one for making inhancing the speed of the 49g+. Thanks. Doug
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
<dmac...@ppeng.com> wrote in message
news:1127406651....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Colin Croft
the 39g+?
hfcmi...@gmail.com
rob...@gmail.com
Erwin Ried
JimmyJohn
rob...@gmail.com wrote:
> Two words... HP Prime.
"HP" is a word?
--
Science is based directly on objective physical evidence,
and nothing that is not based directly on objective physical evidence
can be science.