HP 48G vs. 12C
PB
I'm off to business school this fall and am looking for a financial
calculator. I've had an HP 48G in the past and it's served me well for
many financial calculations. My school, however, is recommending the
HP 12C (which doesn't really excite me).
I would prefer to just use an HP 48G since I'm familiar with it and
it's easy to use. Can the HP 48G do everything that the 12C can?
Preferably, through native applications that already exist on it...
BTW, I actually lost my 48G, so if anyone is looking to sell their's
cheap (<$30) please let me know!
Thanks,
PB
Camille
> calculator. I've had an HP 48G in the past and it's served me well for
> many financial calculations. My school, however, is recommending the
> HP 12C (which doesn't really excite me).
>
> I would prefer to just use an HP 48G since I'm familiar with it and
> it's easy to use. Can the HP 48G do everything that the 12C can?
> Preferably, through native applications that already exist on it...
Hi,
yes, the HP48 can do everything that the 12C can. The numerical
solver and its menu-interface are excellent in the hp48.
So you just have to enter the equations you need, and use the
numerical
solver (much faster than the graphical one, and very similar to the
way the
hp12C works).
I think that all the equations are at the end of the hp12C manual,
you can check there and store then in your 48:
And, of course, the HP48 allows you to program (not in the hp12C
way...).
But I think you should still have a 12C: once you'll be used to it,
you
will go much faster, as it is mainly a dedicated interface between the
numerical
solver and you. The point is that you can't add new equations. But is
it
a problem ? (I mean in a business course)
If it is a problem for you, you should maybe consider some
(discontinued) more
advanced HP financial calculator.
The hp48 is far more advanced than the 12C, but the 12C is much more
specialized,
and you will soon compute faster with the 12C than with the 48 for
financial calculation.
(maybe I'm wrong, if you assign your user-keyboard well... but it
won't be as simple
as the 12C).
Camille
Eduardo Duenez
http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/apps/misc/ Although you don't seem so happy to
use add-on software, some programs are very small and efficient, and they
may allow you to advantageously exploit the fact that the 48G is a much more
*powerful* calc than the 12C, and its programmability features much more
advanced.
Eduardo
Dan Veal
> cheap (<$30) please let me know!
You can get a plain 48g on eBay for around $40 or maybe less (not
including shipping of course).
-Dan
Cyrille de Brébisson
Well, this is not such a good advice.
the 12C has a bloat load of specialize functions, and uses specialized
algorythem to solve them (there is no solver in the 12C).
Althrough it is true that you can program the 48 to perform the same
function, it might not be as fast, and definitely will not be as convinient
as the 12C is.
regards, cyrille
"Camille" <camil...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:b88deca7.03081...@posting.google.com...
MSCHAEF.COM
Cyrille de Brébisson <cyr...@hp.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Well, this is not such a good advice.
>the 12C has a bloat load of specialize functions, and uses specialized
>algorythem to solve them (there is no solver in the 12C).
>Althrough it is true that you can program the 48 to perform the same
>function, it might not be as fast, and definitely will not be as convinient
>as the 12C is.
I had heard this too: that the 12C's TVM solver was optimized for the
equation it was solving.
I've been playing around with writing a solver (for a PC) for it myself,
and have gotten stymied by high values of n. f(x)=x^n has difficult
properties for a secant solver with n=1,000,000.
The effort has given me a lot of respect for the HP financials...
-Mike
--
http://www.mschaef.com
Eduardo Duenez
article addressing, among other things, the issue of the 12C financial
algorithms. William Kahan, a UC Berkeley professor, was involved in
developing them. If you have heard about the 12C Platinum issues solving
for 'i' you can be sure it's because HP lost/forgot the knowledge resulting
from Dr. Kahan's research. Dr. Kahan's web page is:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wkahan/
Look for the link to "Mathematics Written in Sand":
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wkahan/MathSand.pdf
The article may be detailed enough that somebody at this newsgroup can
implement the original 12C algorithms in a 48G program (!) if so inclined.
Hope you'll find it interesting.
Eduardo
"Cyrille de Brébisson" <cyr...@hp.com> wrote in message
news:3f3920b1$1...@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
Tony Hutchins
| Wed, 13.8.03 09:18 a.m. +1200 (NZT) |
+----------------------------------------------+
Hi Eduardo Duenez ! <e_du...@hotmail.com>
01h32m ago, on Tue, 12.8.03 at 3:45 p.m. -0400, you wrote
in message ID <bhbelk$teg$1...@news.hcf.jhu.edu> :
[...]
> Look for the link to "Mathematics Written in Sand":
> http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wkahan/MathSand.pdf
>
> The article may be detailed enough that somebody at this
> newsgroup can implement the original 12C algorithms in a
> 48G program (!) if so inclined.
See the HP41C program "MONEY" in the Finance ROM. There is a
listing on the MoHP CDs. This explicitly and elegantly
implements the i-solving algorithm mentioned in MathSand.pdf.
This code is repeated in a slightly better form in the "TVM"
code in the HP41C "Advantage" ROM.
AFAIK the same algorithms are already in the TVM program in the
HP48 equation library, and probably everywhere you see an HP
TVM application (17B,19B,10B,200LX,18C,..). The built-in HP
TVM variable solving is always specialised - it does not use a
general solver.
The upshot is that the original 12C algorithm for i-solving
has not been lost - well, we have it captured for the HP41,
and I hope HP still have the source code for the HP49 at least
;-)
--
Tony Hutchins
Wellington
New Zealand
#223 Obscurity often brings safety. Aesop
Eduardo Duenez
in the 12C Platinum???
Eduardo
"Tony Hutchins" <t...@csi.com> wrote in message
news:1063238...@news.cis.dfn.de...
Camille
>
> Well, this is not such a good advice.
> the 12C has a bloat load of specialize functions, and uses specialized
> algorythem to solve them (there is no solver in the 12C).
> Althrough it is true that you can program the 48 to perform the same
> function, it might not be as fast, and definitely will not be as convinient
> as the 12C is.
>
Hello,
Well, this is quite the same advice...;-) :
>> The hp48 is far more advanced than the 12C, but the 12C is much more
>> specialized, and you will soon compute faster with the 12C than with the
>> 48 for financial calculation.
About the convenience of the 12C:
>> but it won't be as simple as the 12C
About the solver issue, I was just talking about the fact that the interface
of the hp48's solver is very similar to the way you use the 12C (I mean entering
all but one parameter, then solve, with one key per parameter).
I have absolutely no knowledge of the way the 12C is programmed, but
I did not imagine the 12C had a general purpose numerical solver...
I completely agree with you on the fact that the 12C is a better choice than the 48,
I just said he could use a 48 if he really wanted to do so.
Regards,
Camille
Tony Hutchins
| Wed, 13.8.03 10:38 a.m. +1200 (NZT) |
+----------------------------------------------+
Hi Eduardo Duenez ! <e_du...@hotmail.com>
48m ago, on Tue, 12.8.03 at 5:49 p.m. -0400, you wrote
in message ID <bhbltq$vlu$1...@news.hcf.jhu.edu> :
> Amen! Thanks, Tony. However, how did HP manage to use
> the wrong algorithm in the 12C Platinum???
I really don't know the answer to that. My best guess would be
that the 12CP i-solving code is very similar to the 12C code
at the code level. But something has gone wrong in the
interaction with the 12CP chip - which I think uses a few more
digits of accuracy internally. Possibly some parts of the 12C
code were geared specifically to 10-12 digits accuracy and not
written in a "scalable" way. For example it is necessary to
use some form of accurate "E^X - 1" internally - for 10 digit
accuracy you only need at most 11 terms or so in the expansion
(in the range where special attention is required).
I could be totally wrong here as some behaviour of the 12CP
implies the i-solving code has been changed... or maybe the
folk developing the 12CP trully didn't have any 12C source
code to work from.
--
Tony Hutchins
Wellington
New Zealand
#62 After two weeks of dieting, all I lost was two weeks.