HP 50g keyboard layout
Joel Koltner
me... was the impetus for having "Enter" in the lower right-hand corner
presumably to make the keyboard familiar to TI-83 (etc.) users that have their
keyboards laid out that way?
I find that I make a lot of errors switching between the 50g and the 35s,
which has "+" in the LRHC. :-(
---Joel
Tanguy Briancon
This was discussed years before 2006: when the original hp49g was
released... I don't know the hp35s.
But the hp49 (and 49g+,50) have one more key than the hp48 series:
in alpha mode that was a big progress!
Tanguy
Joe Horn
> presumably to make the keyboard familiar to TI-83 (etc.) users that
> have their keyboards laid out that way?
Probably, but there actually is a good reason to put it there:
It's the key that is pressed more than any other key, and that
location is the easiest for a right-handed user to reach when
the calc is held in both hands with both thumbs pressing the
keys. For example, putting two numbers on the stack feels like
a single smooth motion, with the right thumb only needing to
rock slightly downwards to press ENTER. That is *slightly* more
efficient than the "traditional" double-wide ENTER key placed
midway up the keyboard, which requires a *slightly* farther
travel of the thumb to press.
Proof that ENTER is the most-pressed key? Look at any well-used
HP 49G. The paint on the keys wears off fastest from the ENTER
key. See http://holyjoe.net/hp/crummykeys.htm for photos.
-Joe-
Bill Markwick
>>
> Proof that ENTER is the most-pressed key? Look at any well-used
> HP 49G. The paint on the keys wears off fastest from the ENTER
> key. Seehttp://holyjoe.net/hp/crummykeys.htmfor photos.
That's true. When I first got my HP49G+, the ENTER label rubbed off
in one day, and the rest of the keys took three days. :-)
Here's a key layout idea. It's not original - I have an old Fujitsu
handheld PDA that uses it. Put a pushbutton or rocker switch on the
each side, level with the display. Both right-handed and left-handed
folks will find a thumb on one button or the other (assuming they
aren't using both thumbs for typing). It could be programmed as ENTER
or whatever; better would be a center-off rocker with two programmable
positions.
Bill "Off My Rocker" Markwick
Joe Horn
Methinks that's a good idea. Many computer mice also have side-
mounted buttons for the same reason. Buttons mounted on the side (or
back?) of an HP handheld should be user-definable, like side-mounted
mouse buttons are. That'd be cool.
-Joe-
mk
> 50g... "Enter" in the lower right-hand corner
>
> I find that I make a lot of errors switching between the 50g and the 35s,
> which has "+" in the LRHC. :-(
>
You can assign your 50g's "Enter" button location to a spot that's
more-or-less in the same "relative" location as that on your 35S. On
my 50G, I assigned Enter to the "EEX" key (works in USR mode).
Check out "Keyman" at hpcalc.org.
sc_u...@hotmail.com
> You can assign your 50g's "Enter" button location to a spot that's
> more-or-less in the same "relative" location as that on your 35S. On
> my 50G, I assigned Enter to the "EEX" key (works in USR mode).
> Check out "Keyman" at hpcalc.org.
For many purposes, ENTER is "double-width" by default -- when entering
numbers, often SPC and ENTER achieve the same thing (Just don't hit
the place between the two buttons).
HP can fit in a double-width ENTER key by simply making the EEX +/- X
1/X row of keys into six per row (like the F keys) rather than the
five per row (like the shifts, numerical, and binary operators).
Just my $0.02.
S.C.
Andreas Möller
the reason the HP 48GX was so successful is the enormous software
basis that is available for this machine.
You are buying a piece of hardware from HP but you do so to run
software on it.
IMHO you should keep one thing in mind:
Supposing that there ever will be a successor to the 50G and not
having to rewrite or to recompile all software (which is not as much
as for the 48 series but still a lot of software which has been
written over the years) of a possible successor has to keep software
compatibility even with a changed keyboard.
This could be achieved by the O.S. (it has already be done for the
keys that changed from the 49G to the 49G+) by checking the machine
the O.S. is running on and act accordingly. Also this would have to be
done for all user key assignments and related commands if the keyboard
layout changes.
So, if the keyboard changes for a wide ENTER key you have to stick to
50 keys to be somehow compatible to the 49G/49G+/50G. This could be
done by using the space around the arrow keys and moving the other
keys so that the wide ENTER key fits into the keyboard. If it is done
the keyboard should not change more than necessary due to
compatibility.
But this would mean:
A new face plate is needed (how expensive is this ?).
The O.S. has to be adjusted for distinguishing between the new and the
previous machine. This code won’t be written in ten minutes.
The manuals have to be adjusted (this is expensive).
How do you easily explain to first time customers the differences of
the machines and which one they should buy ?
Will there be cannibalism on the sales of the previous machines with
the new machines ?
There are probably more things to think about but these the ones that
came to my mind first this morning.
And the last and most important questions of all:
How many machines have to be sold just to be break-even ?
Regards,
Andreas
http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de
P.S. As this has been asked somewhere else: Why is [MODE] an unshifted
key ? [CUSTOM] as on the SX/GX would be a better choice, yes it can be
switched by USER assignments but still the question remains.
John H Meyers
> Why is [MODE] an unshifted key?
To get to MODE settings quickly?
Particularly MODE CAS and MODE DISP,
governing so many new features
(whether one wants them or not :)
none of which existed in HP48.
> [CUSTOM] as on the SX/GX would be a better choice
How many users who would buy these now,
because they started to resemble a TI calculator,
would ever knowingly create a "custom" menu?
When I first owned an HP48G, it took me a very long time
to even find out what good the CST key could be,
other than to turn off all my menu keys,
so I used CST mainly to protect my variables,
by disabling the top row keys :)
> these can be switched by USER assignments
That's indeed exactly what I do in my STARTUP,
but only because I finally found some use for CST :)
[r->] [OFF]
Andreas Möller
the CST-Menu is one of the higlights in the 48 series IMHO.
In my German 48SX manual this was so well described that this was one
of the first features I used extensively.
And you know that you can have different CST-Menus in every sub-dir
allowing extremly fast access to what you have defined in your CST-
Menu. This is the reason to have it on a non shifted key: extremly
fast access to your stuff.
> Particularly MODE CAS and MODE DISP,
> governing so many new features
> (whether one wants them or not :)
> none of which existed in HP48.
Yes, but once your are familiar with your 49G and have set your flags
you do not need much access to the mode screen anymore.
Again, it boils down to the fact that the manuals need to be rewritten
from a newbie point of view (which is expensive) but I have said
enough about this.
Regards,
Andreas
http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de
Virgil
"John H Meyers" <jhme...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:04:22 -0600:
>
> > Why is [MODE] an unshifted key?
>
> To get to MODE settings quickly?
>
> Particularly MODE CAS and MODE DISP,
> governing so many new features
> (whether one wants them or not :)
> none of which existed in HP48.
Many people, including me, who define keys for use in USER mode, find it
more convenient to swap the key assignments for the MODE and CUSTOM
operations.
John H Meyers
> manuals need to be rewritten from a newbie point of view
But manuals are no longer read :)
Or as one might imagine Marshall McLuhan saying:
"The graphical user interface is now the entire message" :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan
Another thinker:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Postman
"What Orwell feared were those who would ban books.
What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book,
for there would be no one who wanted to read one."
--
"Children are the living messages we send to a time we will not see"
[Neil Postman]
Raymond Del Tondo
I can also tell that the CST key is one of the most often used keys on my
HP-48.
I _never_ use USER mode because it's too slow for my taste,
and every function is only a few key presses away anyway.
For the remainig functions, it's faster to use the ALPHA key,
followed by keying in the name.
And for those who want some more,
the next version of SpeedUI will contain a mechanism similar to the APPS
menu,
to enable libraries to put shortcuts into a central menu.
The new QuickStartMenu (QSM) can be invoked by
either pressing rightshift+leftarrow (the only free key location),
or for those who miss the awful longhold/doubleclick etc. stuff,
longhold-MTH will also activate the QSM;-)
Apart from that, an unshifted MODE key (like on the doorstops)
indicates more than one design error, since this indicates
that the MODE key has to be used more than occasionally,
and that again indicates a design error somewhere else.
(see implicit internal mode switches)
Regards
Raymond
"Andreas Möller" <andreas_mo...@gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:6c1ea845-1057-40d9...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
Joel Koltner
"Andreas Möller" <andreas_mo...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:b83e0522-6215-42fc...@33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
"Supposing that there ever will be a successor to the 50G and not
having to rewrite or to recompile all software (which is not as much
as for the 48 series but still a lot of software which has been
written over the years) of a possible successor has to keep software
compatibility even with a changed keyboard."
Agreed, although honestly I'm a little doubtful that HP is going to release
another high-end graphing calculator any time soon -- if ever. The 50g came
out more than two-and-a-half years ago now and even the 35s is now more than a
year-and-a-half old and still has every single bug it did the day it was
released, with no fixes (or even acknowledgement of them) from HP. (Mine
also misses enough keystrokes that I'm weary of using it for real work... at
least the poor keys on the 50g can be pretty much fixed with the KEYTIME
command...)
"And the last and most important questions of all:
How many machines have to be sold just to be break-even ?"
Apparently enough to keep Casio and TI cranking out new machines on a pretty
regular basis.
How are your sales of TreeBrowser these days? Hopefully slow but steady?
---Joel
Nate Eldredge
> Agreed, although honestly I'm a little doubtful that HP is going to release
> another high-end graphing calculator any time soon -- if ever. The 50g came
> out more than two-and-a-half years ago now and even the 35s is now more than a
> year-and-a-half old and still has every single bug it did the day it was
> released, with no fixes (or even acknowledgement of them) from HP. (Mine
> also misses enough keystrokes that I'm weary of using it for real work... at
> least the poor keys on the 50g can be pretty much fixed with the KEYTIME
> command...)
This is the first I've heard of KEYTIME. Can you explain more about
this fix?
Joel Koltner
news:86skmkq...@vulcan.lan...
> This is the first I've heard of KEYTIME. Can you explain more about
> this fix?
From http://www.egr.msu.edu/~volzmich/hpcalc/ :
HP50 missed keystrokes
The factory default settings for key hysteresis is so long that if entering
numbers quickly, keystrokes may be missed.
The fix is simple--just type
500?KEYTIMEor
500->KEYTIME(in case the first right arrow didn't come through on your web
browser) where the right arrow is the one entered by pressing Right Shift +
zero. Be sure to delete the space the calculator puts in to the right and left
of that arrow. Viola! You can now type as fast as humanly possible, while
still being protected from key 'jitter' entering doubled keystrokes.
---Joel
Eric Rechlin
> HP50 missed keystrokes
> The factory default settings for key hysteresis is so long that if
> entering numbers quickly, keystrokes may be missed.
>
> The fix is simple--just type
>
Even better, try a lower threshold, like 160 ->KEYTIME. I think the minimum
level that the OS handles is 20ms, which is around 160/8192 of a second, so
I don't believe it would have any effect if you go any lower. On my 50g, it
handles a setting of 160 just fine with no bounce, while never missing a
keystroke.
If I set it to 500, it's still possible to lose keystrokes if I press the
same key twice in a row too fast. Intuitively, I would think that 500
(61ms) would still be fast enough, since that's still an awfully short time
period, but apparently not.
Regards,
Eric Rechlin
Joel Koltner
news:6vgrs5F...@mid.individual.net...
> If I set it to 500, it's still possible to lose keystrokes if I press the
> same key twice in a row too fast. Intuitively, I would think that 500
> (61ms) would still be fast enough, since that's still an awfully short time
> period, but apparently not.
It's easy to grossly underestimate how quickly experienced users can press
buttons -- a useful exercise is to just take a wristwatch and time how quickly
one can start and then immediately stop it: Most anyone can repeatedly get
under 25ms, and some can repeatedly get under 10ms. While clearly the
*average* keypress internal is much longer than that (since you have to move
your fingers around to the next button), someone entering "666" or "enter
enter" can do it quite rapidly.
For comparison, with a regular keyboard (with a lot more real estate to cover
than a calculator keypad), really good typists can easily exceed 100WPM (10
characters per second or 100ms per "press and release" cycle) on average and
in bursts can be at least 50% faster. Particularly good stenographers
(smaller keyboard) can reach 300WPM!
sc_u...@hotmail.com
> Even better, try a lower threshold, like 160 ->KEYTIME. I think the minimum
> level that the OS handles is 20ms, which is around 160/8192 of a second, so
> I don't believe it would have any effect if you go any lower. On my 50g, it
> handles a setting of 160 just fine with no bounce, while never missing a
> keystroke.
>
My KEYTIME is at 512. I once changed it down to 256, but at 256 ticks,
my 50g (CNA 644) would ddouble keystrokes. I guess there is variation
across different samples of hardware, but I don't really have a
problem with it because I rarely type that fast anyway.
S.C.
sc_u...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> For comparison, with a regular keyboard (with a lot more real estate to cover
> than a calculator keypad), really good typists can easily exceed 100WPM (10
> characters per second or 100ms per "press and release" cycle) on average and
> in bursts can be at least 50% faster. Particularly good stenographers
> (smaller keyboard) can reach 300WPM!
Stenographers also do not use regular QWERTY (or even Dvorak)
keyboards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype
It is by using a special phonetic keyboard that they are able to keep
up with the speed of speech.
S.C.
Raymond Del Tondo
news:6vgrs5F...@mid.individual.net...
> "Joel Koltner" <> wrote:
>> HP50 missed keystrokes
>> The factory default settings for key hysteresis is so long that if
>> entering numbers quickly, keystrokes may be missed.
>>
>> The fix is simple--just type
>>
>> 500 ->KEYTIME
> If I set it to 500, it's still possible to lose keystrokes if I press the
> same key twice in a row too fast. Intuitively, I would think that 500
> (61ms) would still be fast enough, since that's still an awfully short
> time period, but apparently not.
>
Still no bouncing keys...
SCNR;-)
Regards
Raymond
Joel Koltner
news:8b4396ed-a3ed-4979...@i38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>> (smaller keyboard) can reach 300WPM!
> Stenographers also do not use regular QWERTY (or even Dvorak)
> keyboards:
Yeah, by "smaller keyboard" I meant "fewer number of keys," but that wasn't
very clear.
"It is by using a special phonetic keyboard that they are able to keep
up with the speed of speech."
AFAICT it's because there's very little hand motion -- fingers generally only
ever move between two rows, never between columns. (Although the thumbs go
between two columns...) They also omit spaces, tend to abbreviate, etc.
Still, a stenographer is pressing and releasing one (or multiple) keys at a
rate of better than 20Hz -- over 30Hz for the very best!
Joel Koltner
stenographers use)... does anyone remember a little handheld computer from the
late '80s that had a bazillion little buttons (like they all did), but then
five *big* buttons placed roughly in the shape of where your fingertips come
down? I seem to recall it had a 4-line LCD, all of 32kB of memory, and few --
if any -- applications besides taking notes using chording with your one hand,
but I remember being quite intrigued at the time.
Not that I had the money to actually *buy* one, though...
Nate Eldredge
Ah, I see. Thanks.
This, then, is unrelated to the problem where if a key is pressed just
as the CPU goes to sleep, it isn't processed until after the CPU wakes
up again (on the following keystroke). It's the latter that I find more
annoying and was hoping that this would address (though this is useful
too). Does anyone know if it can be fixed by a future ROM update, or if
it is a hardware problem that can't be worked around?
sc_u...@hotmail.com
> This, then, is unrelated to the problem where if a key is pressed just
> as the CPU goes to sleep, it isn't processed until after the CPU wakes
> up again (on the following keystroke). It's the latter that I find more
> annoying and was hoping that this would address (though this is useful
> too). Does anyone know if it can be fixed by a future ROM update, or if
> it is a hardware problem that can't be worked around?
>
>
Seems to be an unrelated software problem. Considering that HP has not
released a new ROM since 2.09C in 2006, it seems like HP is not
interested in releasing new ROM updates. (JYA said a while ago that
there exists a ROM 2.10C, but for some reason, HP simply is not
releasing it.)
S.C.
Veli-Pekka Nousiainen
viestissä:zqHkl.184246$se4....@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
> "Eric Rechlin" <er...@hpcalc.org> wrote in message
> news:6vgrs5F...@mid.individual.net...
>> If I set it to 500, it's still possible to lose keystrokes if I press the
>> same key twice in a row too fast. Intuitively, I would think that 500
>> (61ms) would still be fast enough, since that's still an awfully short
>> time period, but apparently not.
>
> It's easy to grossly underestimate how quickly experienced users can press
> buttons -- a useful exercise is to just take a wristwatch and time how
> quickly one can start and then immediately stop it: Most anyone can
> repeatedly get under 25ms, and some can repeatedly get under 10ms. While
> clearly the *average* keypress internal is much longer than that (since
> you have to move your fingers around to the next button), someone entering
> "666" or
better that or...
Joe Horn
> ... does anyone remember a little handheld computer from the
> late '80s that had a bazillion little buttons (like they all
> did), but then five *big* buttons placed roughly in the shape
> of where your fingertips come down? I seem to recall it had
> a 4-line LCD, all of 32kB of memory, and few -- if any --
> applications besides taking notes using chording with your
> one hand, but I remember being quite intrigued at the time.
That was the "Agenda" (aka Mini-BAT) by Microwriter Systems:
http://www.xaphoon.com/dataegg/History.html
That writeup is by Gary Friedman, whose talk about the "Data Egg" won
him the Best Speaker Award at an HHC conference in Corvallis, OR. He
is also an amateur poet and humorist:
http://holyjoe.net/poetry/friedman.htm
-Joe-
Joe Horn
> This, then, is unrelated to the problem where if a key is
> pressed just as the CPU goes to sleep, it isn't processed
> until after the CPU wakes up again (on the following
> keystroke). It's the latter that I find more annoying...
A very useful workaround to this so-called "Busy Bug" is to turn the
clock display on (MODE DISP Clock, or -40 SF) and leave it on
permanently. Any keystroke caught in the evil clutches of this bug
will be released and executed by the next clock display update (every
second) or by the next keystroke, whichever comes first. The extra
battery drain is negligible, and no keystrokes are completely lost.
-Joe-
Nate Eldredge
Dave Hayden
> On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 00:31:40 -0600:
>
> > manuals need to be rewritten from a newbie point of view
>
> But manuals are no longer read :)
>
> Or as one might imagine Marshall McLuhan saying:
> "The graphical user interface is now the entire message" :)
While I appreciate John's humor here, I don't think the case applies.
When the HP 50g comes out the shrink wrap, there is no GUI help, just
a manual and a CD. The manual is full of typos and nearly impossible
to understand for a new user like myself (I hadn't seen a new HP
calculator since I bought a 41CV around 1982). I'd expect the
beginning of the manual to explain how to add, subtract, multiply and
divide, but instead it plunges you into 50(!) pages of modes, number
formats, how to enter hideously complex equations, angle measurements,
coordinate systems, CAS settings, display modes, stack properties,
equation editor properties, calculator objects, stack expressions,
equation editors, variable names, organizations, directory structures,
algebraic and RPN modes, soft keys and choose boxes.
You have to really REALLY want to keep a calculator if you don't pack
it up and return it in disgust because the manual doesn't tell you how
to add 2+2 until page 50.
There is no GUI, only the manuals. And the manuals are absolutely
appalling. Spectacularly appalling. Inexcusably appalling. I know
people worked hard on them and the prose is generally clear when there
aren't typographical errors, but they are simply not instructive for a
new user, and HP really should think about new users to grow the
customer base.
Dave
Andreas Möller
> There is no GUI, only the manuals. And the manuals are absolutely
> appalling. Spectacularly appalling. Inexcusably appalling. I
> know people worked hard on them and the prose is generally clear
> when there aren't typographical errors, but they are simply not
> instructive for a new user, and HP really should think about new
> users to grow the customer base.
Looks like as I am not the only one with this opinion.
Regards,
Andreas
http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de
Eric Rucker
And if you're buying a 50g, you probably know how to operate a regular
calculator. [2] [+] [2] [Enter] on a fresh out of the shrinkwrap 50g,
at least on mine, just like any other algebraic calculator. And, I was
pretty sure my dead-tree manual covered that quickly. (Yes, it did
also cover switching to RPN early on.)
Joel Koltner
John H Meyers
> You have to really REALLY want to keep a calculator if you don't pack
> it up and return it in disgust because the manual doesn't tell you
> how to add 2+2 until page 50.
Completely unfair and impractical.
It takes much more preliminary knowledge to fly a plane
than to peddle a tricycle, no matter how short the trip.
If you've bought a complex calculator to do complex work,
you need to get a bit oriented before you can sensibly do anything.
There are no instructions for "how to add 2+2"
which will even work, for example,
no matter what mode the calculator starts in (think ALG vs RPN).
If I try to calculate the square root of two,
"right out of the box," all I can get is a square root symbol,
in front of the number 2, so what kind of useless calculator is that?
Better go get a "four-banger," which you can match up
with exactly the kind of manual you want -- start right out
with 2+2=, add a few more examples, and that's all there is.
What about a person who only wants to make graphs?
Should Chapter 1 start right out with the GUI for graphing
(which is all via GUI, it so happens)?
What about people who only want to do symbolic algebra and calculus?
Perhaps Chapter 1 should start with examples for them,
instead of either for people who should have bought
a four-banger, or who only want to do graphing?
No matter what you start with, someone else's primary interest
will be buried behind 50 pages of other stuff,
so your original complaint will remain,
no matter what manual is ever produced,
even though I'm sure it's possible to create a superbly fine manual,
save only that it would be for a calculator that itself
needs a major re-design.
> There is no GUI, only the manuals.
GUIs arrived in this series with the 48G, around 1993;
unfortunately, there isn't a "main" GUI to lead to everything else,
but APPS is a meager start.
[r->] [OFF]
Dave Hayden
> It takes much more preliminary knowledge to fly a plane
> than to peddle a tricycle, no matter how short the trip.
The analogy doesn't hold for a calculator. It takes very little
knowledge to take a square root, while it takes much more to solve
multiple simultaneous equations or understand symbolic algebraic
expressions. You should be able to do the little things with little
knowledge.
> If you've bought a complex calculator to do complex work,
> you need to get a bit oriented before you can sensibly do anything.
>
> What about a person who only wants to make graphs?
> Should Chapter 1 start right out with the GUI for graphing
> (which is all via GUI, it so happens)?
>
> What about people who only want to do symbolic algebra and calculus?
> Perhaps Chapter 1 should start with examples for them,
> instead of either for people who should have bought
> a four-banger, or who only want to do graphing?
What I'm saying is that the manuals should start out with the basics
and work up from there. Come to think of it, I think you're saying
exactly the same thing :) .
I believe that the manual in the box should be written for a new user
and should take the user through the calculator in a logic
progression, where each step builds on the next (or at least says
"we'll talk about this later, for now just do it"). At each step, you
want the reader to think "oh I get it. That makes sense. This is
easy." There's a great book by Steve Krugg called "Don't Make Me
Think" (http://www.amazon.com/Think-Common-Sense-Approach-Usability/dp/
0789723107) that talks about this in the context of web design. He
argues that each time the user is puzzled or confused, there's a good
chance that they'll just go somewhere else that doesn't confuse them.
I believe it really IS possible to write a manual that will instruct a
brand new user in how to operate the calculator without requiring that
they have a huge amount of knowledge right away. That by having them
put the calculator in approximate mode (that's one of those "we'll
come back to this, just do it" things). Then work through the 4-
banger and scientific calculations. That's easy. "Now here's the
alpha keyboard and here's how you store and recall variables." I get
it. "Hey, you can even have directories and there's this thing called
the filer." Well that makes sense. "Now here are the scientific
functions. The Mode menu lets you change Degrees/Radians/Grads".
Nice. "By the way, you can change display modes too."
Somewhere along the way there, I'd introduce RPN and praise its
virtues.
Only after going through all of this would I explain exact mode. From
there you can go into the higher level functions.
This sort of progression would be easily understood by anyone, even a
14-year-old who's never seen anything but a 4-banger. By the way, I
think that 14-year-old is a prime customer.
>
> No matter what you start with, someone else's primary interest
> will be buried behind 50 pages of other stuff,
> so your original complaint will remain,
> no matter what manual is ever produced,
> even though I'm sure it's possible to create a superbly fine manual,
> save only that it would be for a calculator that itself
> needs a major re-design.
I'm not saying that my *primary* interest should be first. I'm saying
that it should cover the simple, understandable basics first and build
up from there. This can be done with the existing calculator, there's
no redesign required.
>
> > There is no GUI, only the manuals.
>
> GUIs arrived in this series with the 48G, around 1993;
> unfortunately, there isn't a "main" GUI to lead to everything else,
> but APPS is a meager start.
I should not have said GUI. I apologize. What I meant was a GUI
*help* system. You're original point was that no one reads manuals
any more and I'm saying that your point is only true when the device
has good online help. The CAS help system is a handy reminder, but
the calculator itself doesn't contain enough information to teach one
how to use it.
The APPS menu is a wonderful start if you ask me.
Finally, let me say that I really love the 50g.
Dave
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