hp50g != hp48sx: 50g: how to enter an angle (no nice angle-key)

[David Combs]

I miss that angle key.

---

So on the 50g I've got the mode set to cylindrical and degrees: r < z

So I type in [ 10 20 ], hoping it means r=10 and angle 20 degrees.

I hit enter, and see that it has interpreted it as x and y, and
for display it shows [ 22.26... angle-symbol 63.something ],
which I think is correct. (arctan 2 gives that 63 degrees ok,
and sqrt(500) is that 22.26... .

However, I want to go in the opposite direction, like typing
in r and theta. How to do that, with no angle key?

---

Ah ha! There it is, alpha right-shift 6.



I play around a bit, and come up with this possibility:


The mode setting of cartesian, cylindrical (polar in 2dim),
spherical specifies ONLY how things are to be DISPLAYED (on
the stack, at least).

Seems to have no effect on the PARSING or semantics
of what I type in.

If what I type in looks like cartesian, that's what
it takes it as, then DISPLAYS it according to the
cartesian/cylindrical/spherical mode.

And if I type in [10 <angleSym>20], it interprets
that as using cylindrical (here, polar) coordinates.



If that's how it works, I sure wish they'd said it!
Would make the results (on the stack) lot more
understandable.

---

Sorry to ask such a stupid question. I haven't
used my 50g in many a year.


Thanks,

David


PS: The "i" (for complex numbers) *looks* to me,
via magnifying glass, like the left-shifted TOOL
key. [what's the right-shifted thing that looks
like a pipe symbol?]

But I'm having trouble entering a complex number.
trying to follow the example on manual page 4-1 and
4-2.

And I have the mode set so that only complex
is checked, just as in the example.
(Question: does that checkmark (also) affect *only*
the DISPLAY?)

I notice that both the algebraic and rpn entry
examples -- neither one explicitly uses the
complex-i key (if that's what it is!). But then
under the rpn example is a stack picture that
shows the i. How did it get there if no one
typed it in?

(Maybe it's just me. Or maybe the hp manual?)

David


When I enter what I think is the complex "i",
it gives me a single-quoted i,

[pin224466]

refer to the following youtube videos... maybe this can give you some additional guidance....just skip through the engineering part and review once the equations are created and entered into the 50G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAUMdDaIq_s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doLQB-uC1kA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bAtwNfCW9Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj9K_bXKEY4

> PS: The "i" (for complex numbers) *looks* to me,
>
> via magnifying glass, like the left-shifted TOOL
>
> key. [what's the right-shifted thing that looks
>
> like a pipe symbol?]
>
>
>
> But I'm having trouble entering a complex number.
>
> trying to follow the example on manual page 4-1 and
>
> 4-2.
>
>
>
> And I have the mode set so that only complex
>
> is checked, just as in the example.
>
> (Question: does that checkmark (also) affect *only*
>
> the DISPLAY?)
>
>
>
> I notice that both the algebraic and rpn entry
>
> examples -- neither one explicitly uses the
>
> complex-i key (if that's what it is!). But then
>
> under the rpn example is a stack picture that
>
> shows the i. How did it get there if no one
>
> typed it in?

on the top of page 4-3 you will find the answer:

"Notice that the last entry shows a complex number in the form x+iy. This is so
because the number was entered between single quotes, which represents an
algebraic expression. To evaluate this number use the EVAL key"

>
>
> (Maybe it's just me. Or maybe the hp manual?)
>

....the manuals are sometimes difficult to read.

>
> When I enter what I think is the complex "i",
>
> it gives me a single-quoted i,

If you type Left SHIFT then the TOOL key, this will enter the complex value 'i' on the stack... in rectangular mode, it will show up as (0, 1)

If you put 'i' inbetween SINGLE quotes, the letter 'i' will appear on the stack.
HOWEVER, if you execute the function TYPE on this entry, you will find that it is a type 9 or algebraic object.

With 'i' inbetween single quotes on the stack, press EVAL (or ->NUM) and the object should be converted to a type 1 complex number.

[David Combs]

In article <4a1f8746-cfa4-4d06...@googlegroups.com>,

pin224466 <pin2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:35:07 AM UTC-6, David Combs wrote:
>> I miss that angle key.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

>> When I enter what I think is the complex "i",
>>
>> it gives me a single-quoted i,
>


>If you type Left SHIFT then the TOOL key, this will enter the complex value 'i' on the stack... in rectangular mode, it will show up as (0, 1)
>
>If you put 'i' inbetween SINGLE quotes, the letter 'i' will appear on the stack.
>HOWEVER, if you execute the function TYPE on this entry, you will find that it is a type 9 or algebraic object.
>
>With 'i' inbetween single quotes on the stack, press EVAL (or ->NUM) and the object should be converted to a type 1 complex number.
>

THANKS SO MUCH!

Now I go to the videos and to that page
in the book!

David

[John H Meyers]

On 12/18/2012 12:35 AM, David Combs wrote:

> I miss that angle key.

Key functions are assignable (via ASN and STOKEYS commands).

You could, for example, replace the "infinity" symbol
by the angle symbol; would that be any less handy
than it is on HP48 S/G series keyboards?

<http://www.hpmuseum.org/img/48s/48sxs.jpg>
<http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/pictures/hp48gx.jpg>
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/40465596@N00/3144053356/>

> On the 50g I've got the mode set to cylindrical and degrees: r < z

>
> So I type in [ 10 20 ], hoping it means r=10 and angle 20 degrees.
>
> I hit enter, and see that it has interpreted it as x and y, and
> for display it shows [ 22.26... angle-symbol 63.something ],
> which I think is correct. (arctan 2 gives that 63 degrees ok,
> and sqrt(500) is that 22.26... .
>
> However, I want to go in the opposite direction, like typing
> in r and theta. How to do that, with no angle key?

You've created an unnecessary limitation by saying "no angle key,"
since all versions of HP48/49/50 support "user mode"
with arbitrary user keyboard re-assignments.

> Ah ha! There it is, alpha right-shift 6

Even that can be profitably used,
since the built-in CHARS entry mode
remembers the last character used,
thus you can repeat CHARS and choose ECHO1,
although this is still more key presses than necessary.

If you use that symbol all the time,
yet use the SYMB menu (or other key) none of the time,
you could even use a single unshifted key for "angle symbol";
your keyboard is like your workbench,
and you're free to arrange it in any way
that maximizes your "bottom line,"
as to the overall efficiency of your use of your calculator,
given your own particular need levels for all its available functions,
many of which you may hardly ever use.

The subject of "custom menus" can also be employed
to make a menu of many functions that you use,
with perhaps a single key dedicated to switch to that menu.

The main problem is that there are too many ways to do anything,
causing anxiety to anyone who "freezes"
when faced with such open-ended decisions to make :)

> I play around a bit, and come up with this possibility:
>
> The mode setting of cartesian, cylindrical (polar in 2dim),
> spherical specifies ONLY how things are to be DISPLAYED (on
> the stack, at least).
>
> Seems to have no effect on the PARSING or semantics
> of what I type in.

Generally true, as designed, except for three commands,
which are also common to the entire HP48/49/50 series,
and have never changed in how they work:

V\-> \->V2 \->V3

To use the latter two commands,
you place two or three separate _numeric_ components on the stack,
then those components are combined into one object
according to the current coordinate and angle mode(s)
[and flag -19, as to whether \->V2
shall create "vector" vs. "complex"]

The first command reverses what the other two do.

All three commands have one common theme,
which is that any result _displays_ on the stack,
in all modes, the same _numeric_ values as were input
(or equivalent "principal" or normalized values),
the reasoning behind which is left to be pondered.

> If what I type in looks like cartesian, that's what
> it takes it as, then DISPLAYS it according to the
> cartesian/cylindrical/spherical mode.
>
> And if I type in [10 <angleSym>20], it interprets
> that as using cylindrical (here, polar) coordinates.

That's the precise purpose of the "angle" symbol's
presence or absence in certain positions, to specify
unambiguously in which coordinate mode (RECT, CYLIN, or SPHERE)
to interpret the components of any single 2D or 3D object
when parsing, regardless of current flag settings,
as has been unchanged among all HP48/49/50
(except that the RECT, CYLIN, and SPHERE mode-setting commands themselves
were introduced in the HP48 "G" series).

How come you haven't also yet asked about the original (HP48)
keyboard functions labeled RAD and POLAR?

Those functions each simply flip one flag,
hence can be accomplished by trivial programs
in the HP49/50 series (which dropped the RAD/POLAR keyboard operations),
and those programs can also be assigned to keyboard locations,
if one has a strong urge to have RAD/POLAR keys available in that manner.

[r->] [OFF]

[John H Meyers]

On 12/25/2012 10:13 AM, I wrote:

> Generally true, as designed, except for three commands,
> which are also common to the entire HP48/49/50 series,
> and have never changed in how they work:
>
> V\-> \->V2 \->V3
>
> To use the latter two commands,
> you place two or three separate _numeric_ components on the stack,
> then those components are combined into one object
> according to the current coordinate and angle mode(s)
> [and flag -19, as to whether \->V2
> shall create "vector" vs. "complex"]
>
> The first command reverses what the other two do.
>
> All three commands have one common theme,
> which is that any result _displays_ on the stack, in all modes,

> the same _numeric_ values as were _displayed_ on the stack as input

> (or equivalent "principal" or normalized values),
> the reasoning behind which is left to be pondered.

I've updated the last of these paragraphs,
to try to avoid any ambiguity -- those commands
_display_ the same numeric values _on the stack_
both before and after execution of the command,
once as separate real values on separate stack levels,
and once as values _displayed_ within a single object,
even though an internal coordinate transformation may have occurred,
in the course of making that happen, which is another way of stating
the purpose of those commands, to transform between the always-cartesian
internal components of a single object <-> the individual values
_displayed_ for that object, per current display modes.

Whereas the interpretation of "angle symbols" in user input
to be parsed as a single object, is independent of coordinate mode settings,
the interpretation (or production) of separate real-valued coordinates
on the stack, for the commands above,
is entirely dependent upon current coordinate modes.

Vectors always remain stored _internally_ in rectangular coordinates,
but a _stack display_ always presents them in the
_current coordinate display mode_ (automatically converting coordinates,
which is usually regarded as a very thoughtful and work-saving feature :)

Likewise, without needing any programming or extra commands,
you can type a vector in the syntax of any of the three
coordinate display modes, preceding each angle value with an angle symbol,
and the calculator will automatically convert that to a set of
internal rectangular coordinates and store it in that standard internal form,
plus immediately re-display it in any one of the three available coordinate systems.

People who had moved up to the HP48/49/50 series frequently used to ask,
where are the P->R and R->P commands that older calculators used to have
(for 2-dimensional coordinates, which was as far as they could go),
and the general answer was that you don't need any such commands now,
because all such conversions are automatically done for you,
as you either simply view the final answers on the screen display
or type the original values of vectors in any coordinate mode you wish,
all coordinate transformations (even to/from Spherical Polar coordinates)
being done for you, instantaneously and automatically,
as you either enter new coordinates to parse
or take note of converted coordinates on the stack display.

However, if you wish to access the individual coordinates of an object,
for further individual computation,
or to assemble an object from such individual components
that have already been computed (or measured),
that where V\-> and \->V2 and \->V3 are used.

The old conversions between rectangular coordinates
(on two separate stack levels) to polar coordinates
(also on two separate stack levels) can also be accomplished
using those same commands:

P->R: \<< -16. SF \->V2 -16. CF V\-> \>>
R->P: \<< -16. CF \->V2 -16. SF V\-> \>>

To preserve the original flag state, if desired,
insert RCLF UNROT at the beginning and ROT STOF at the end
of each of the above.

Gathering other functions which have earlier been mentioned:

RAD angle mode toggle
RAD <-> DEG/GRAD (whichever was most recently used)
\<< -17. DUP IF FS? THEN CF ELSE SF END \>>

POLAR display mode toggle
RECT <-> CYLIN/SPHERE (whichever was most recently used)
\<< -16. DUP IF FS? THEN CF ELSE SF END \>>

[r->] [OFF]

[Travis Evans]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:13:37 -0600, John H Meyers <jhme...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/18/2012 12:35 AM, David Combs wrote:

[...]

>
>> However, I want to go in the opposite direction, like typing
>> in r and theta. How to do that, with no angle key?
>
> You've created an unnecessary limitation by saying "no angle key,"
> since all versions of HP48/49/50 support "user mode"
> with arbitrary user keyboard re-assignments.
>
>> Ah ha! There it is, alpha right-shift 6
>
> Even that can be profitably used,
> since the built-in CHARS entry mode
> remembers the last character used,
> thus you can repeat CHARS and choose ECHO1,
> although this is still more key presses than necessary.
>
> If you use that symbol all the time,
> yet use the SYMB menu (or other key) none of the time,
> you could even use a single unshifted key for "angle symbol";
> your keyboard is like your workbench,
> and you're free to arrange it in any way
> that maximizes your "bottom line,"
> as to the overall efficiency of your use of your calculator,
> given your own particular need levels for all its available functions,
> many of which you may hardly ever use.

[...]

User keyboard is easily one of my most favorite features. I keep it
locked in USR mode 99.9% of the time and have added everything from
shortcut keys to frequently used apps, symbols that I used often that I
wanted easier access to, to all sorts of stack-manipulation and
programming commands and menus I use a lot (since I do primarily
programming/development but not as much advanced math stuff).

My only problem is I have so many assignments (without even using all
ten or so possible shift planes) that I have to have a text file listing
them, and even then I frequently forget several of them and end up
typing them out the long way anyway. :-) Perhaps if there was some sort
of interchangeable keyboard overlay thing like some early 80s home
computers had, that would come in handy. Then again, it might be rather
challenging fitting everything into that tiny space between the keys!

--
Travis

[John H Meyers]

On 12/25/2012 6:37 PM, Travis Evans [ticalc.org !] wrote:

> User keyboard is easily one of my most favorite features. I keep it
> locked in USR mode 99.9% of the time and have added everything from
> shortcut keys to frequently used apps, symbols that I used often that I
> wanted easier access to, to all sorts of stack-manipulation and
> programming commands and menus I use a lot (since I do primarily
> programming/development but not as much advanced math stuff).
>
> My only problem is I have so many assignments (without even using all
> ten or so possible shift planes) that I have to have a text file listing
> them, and even then I frequently forget several of them and end up
> typing them out the long way anyway. :-) Perhaps if there was some sort
> of interchangeable keyboard overlay thing like some early 80s home
> computers had, that would come in handy. Then again, it might be rather
> challenging fitting everything into that tiny space between the keys!

HP48[S/G] series keyboards were specifically designed with "slots"
for securing keyboard overlays, which were once even sold by HP:
<http://www.pahhc.org/2010/Articles/HHC2004%20Proper_Calculator_Keyboards.pdf>
<http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv014.cgi?read=53476>

Did TW once create and sell HP49G+/50G overlays? (links are now empty pages)
<http://compgroups.net/comp.sys.hp48/49g+-overlays-soon-availible/29142>

[r->] [OFF]

[robin48gx]

Alpha right-shift 6

It should be written on the calculator!