Converting LIF PROG files to ASCII Test on PC, revised Posting
Richard E. Webb
of nuclear power plants, as well as the harmfulness of nuclear
radiation and x-rays. Hewlett Packard donated to me in 1988 one of
their 9816 computers using Rocky Mountain Basic, to enable me to make
my manifold calculations. I have since then made hundreds of LIF
diskettes with many PROG type files (typically five large PROG files
on each diskette). I need to be able to use them on my Compaq PC
using Windows98 with HT-Basic - (another computer donated to me). I
could, operating on the HP9816 computer, LOAD a particular PROG file
(a program) from its LIF diskette (call it “LIF diskette
#1”), and then SAVE the program (as an ASCII type file) on
another LIF diskette sitting in the other disc drive (call that
diskette LIF diskette #2). Then I could take the LIF diskette #2,
which now contains the ASCII file, into my PC and operate on it with a
LIF utility that an HP engineer found for me on this NewsGroup, to
convert the ASCII file on the LIF diskette #2 to an ASCII DOS text
file on the DOS HardDisk of my PC. Once the program is in the ASCII
text form on the PC DOS DISK, I can then OPEN that ASCII DOS text file
when operating the HT-BASIC computer program with WINDOWS98.
However, it is not practical for me to convert all the PROG files of
my hundreds of LIF diskettes into ASCII files by this method, as I
worry about excessive wear on the 9816 disk drive and failure of the
drive, besides the enormous time required (and the wear of the
computer).
Therefore, I ask for help to obtain a utility that would run on
the PC (with DOS or Windows98) and perform the needed conversion
operation; that is, a utility that could take a LIF diskette (fed into
the PC A-Drive) and make the ASCII text of the program stored as a
PROG file on that LIF diskette, and then save (or store) that ASCII
text of the program onto the hard disk of my PC. Does such a utility
exist?
Such a utility would enable me to use the wealth of programs that I
have made (important for the nuclear safety questions), should the
HP9816 computer fail on me (running out of its life). So far, after
many years of use, the HP9816 has not failed on me - a great
computer, and thanks again to the Hewlett-Packard company in England
for donated it to me, and the HP company in the Netherlands for
helping me obtain the LIF utility mentioned above.
Following my original posting, I was advised to get LIFARC.EXE from
http://ftp.agilent.com/pub/mpusup/pc/old/, and try the LIF2DOS.EXE
utility. I tried that, but it does not do that which I need. It
merely copies the ASCII text on a LIF diskette as DOS text onto the
hard disk of the PC. Or have I missed something. In the LIFARC.EXE
is another EXE program, LIFUTIL.EXE, which is a later version of the
LIFUTIL given to me before, but it has the same limitation: it does
not make an ASCII file from a PROG file on a LIF diskette .
Also, the LIF2DOS.EXE display states that there is a
“full-featured LIF to DOS File Utility, E2080A.” Could
this work? And if so, how could I obtain it. I am not an experts in
the computer technology. I only need to make programs with the Rocky
Mountain Basic, which runs perfectly with HT—BASIC also, which
by the way, I commend as well.
Your help would be greatly appreciated, and very important for
furthering the research of the nuclear accident hazards and the
harmfulness of nuclear radiation
Richard E. Webb,
P.S. I am author of the book "The Accident Hazards of Nuclear Power
Plants," published by the University of Massachusetts Press, 1976. I
refer also to wwww.technidigm.org/webb
<http://www.technidigm.org/webb> for some of my works and
background. The Website was created and is offered by one Commander
Charles Jones of Germantown, Maryland, who for six years in the U.S.
Department of Energy, was responsible for the safety of all U.S.
nuclear weapons, and was qualified as chief reactor engineer on the
Nimitz and Enterprise nuclear powered aircraft carriers. I mention
this to explain his qualifications; for he has an endorsement of my
work at the front by my essay on the Three Mile Island nuclear
accident. I am independent, and have not the financial means at the
present time to obtain the needed utility by some other means, though
I know of no other means. I have been advised about a thing called
AccuMeasure, EZ. But I have not been able to obtain information on
it, to know that I would work. Does anyone know of a utility that
would serve my need?
Chuck Slivkoff
> Therefore, I ask for help to obtain a utility that would run on the PC
> (with DOS or Windows98) and perform the needed conversion operation;
> that is, a utility that could take a LIF diskette (fed into the PC
> A-Drive) and make the ASCII text of the program stored as a PROG file on
> that LIF diskette, and then save (or store) that ASCII text of the
> program onto the hard disk of my PC. Does such a utility exist?
Richard,
While I know nothing about the HP9816 and even less about Rocky Mountain
Basic, I'll offer my comments.
Based on the description, the original format floppy disks are not
readable by MS-Win/DOS. But, with the help of some utility, the data can
be read, converted to ASCII, and saved by the HP9816 onto a DOS-formatted
floppy. So basically, you are looking for a MS-Win/DOS utility or driver
to be able to read the files on the original disks and store them on the
local HD.
Under UNIX/Linux, the "dd" utility can be used very simply to create
images of floppy disks, regardless of the filesystem. This should at least
give you the ability to create backups of the floppies themselves. If you
wanted to do this yourself, you wouldn't even need a full Linux
installation. (Floppy "recovery" disks for most of the Linux distributions
would likely give you all you would need: the "dd" command and access to
the FAT filesystem on your HD.)
Since I doubt that you have any details on the filesystem used on the
floppies, it might take some work to write a utility to read the data.
But, since you have both the original floppy images as well as the
resulting output, it may be possible to reverse engineer the filesystem.
Since floppies do not exactly qualify as "mass-storage" devices, their
size could make it even easier.
You've mentioned financial limitations, so unless you're comfortable with
trying to develop such a tool on your own, here is an idea. Contact a
local university computer science department. There may be students
looking for project ideas.
Good luck!
-chuck
Frank Slootweg
retirement from HP.]
"Richard E. Webb" <rew...@freenet.de> wrote in message
news:3ce9353d.03052...@posting.google.com...
> Therefore, I ask for help to obtain a utility that would run on
> the PC (with DOS or Windows98) and perform the needed conversion
> operation; that is, a utility that could take a LIF diskette (fed into
> the PC A-Drive) and make the ASCII text of the program stored as a
> PROG file on that LIF diskette, and then save (or store) that ASCII
> text of the program onto the hard disk of my PC. Does such a utility
> exist?
Hi Richard,
As I mentioned on the phone, I do not think such a utility exists.
Such a utility would basiscally be a subset of a BASIC interpreter (i.e.
like the HT-Basic interpreter which you already have) and why would
anyone make a subset of an already existing program?
As far as I can tell, your *real* problem is that the HT-Basic BASIC
interpreter which you have is a *demo* (trial, whatever) version which
can *load* a program from a file, but can not *save* a program to a
file.
I think you need a full BASIC interpreter, i.e. *with* save
capability. If you have that, then you can do everything you need on the
Windows 98 PC, i.e. without wearing out (the diskette drive of) the
HP9816:
- Take a LIF diskette with the PROG files and put it in the diskette
drive.
- Use the LIFUTIL LIF utility ("that an HP engineer found for me on this
NewsGroup" :-)) to convert the *LIF* PROG file (on the diskette) to a
*DOS* PROG file (on the hard-disk of the Windows 98 PC).
Note that, as I mentioned, this should be a *binary* (image,
one-on-one, whatever) copy, i.e. *NOT* an ASCII copy. I.e. the size
and contents of the DOS file should be *exactly* the same as the
contents of the LIF file. This is the critical step. Please let us
know if you need further help with this.
- Now load the DOS PROG file into the (HP-Basic or other compatible)
BASIC interpreter and then save it as an DOS ASCII file (on the hard-
disk of the Windows 98 PC).
I hope this helps.
[Full posting for reference:]
"Richard E. Webb" <rew...@freenet.de> wrote in message
news:3ce9353d.03052...@posting.google.com...
Richard E. Webb
First, to Frank, I have tried the idea which you have offered. That
is, I took a LIF diskette, made by running the HP9816 computer with
HPBASIC (RMB), and copied the PROG file on the LIF diskette to the PC
hard disk by running DOS and using the LIFUTIL utility (that runs on
the DOS of the PC) for the copying operation. The "File Format
Conversion" selected for the copying was "Binary Image: No format
change (all file types)." The copying was successful, in that the DOS
disk directory shows that the file copied (as the binary image). I
then switched over to the HT-BASIC program, running on the WINDOWS98,
and attempted to LOAD that binary image file, which you have written
should be the PROG file on the DOS disc in the PC (copied from the LIF
diskette by the LIFUTIL utility). But after executing the LOAD
command, an error message appears, "Improper file type." The
"Reference Manual" for HT-Basic has this information about the
restriction of the program in respect to PROG files of the HP-BASIC,
to wit:
"PROG files created by different versions of HTBasic can be exchanged
only if the two computers use the same byte ordering. PROG files
created by HP BASIC cannot be read or written by HTBasic. LOADing an
incompatible PROG file results in error 58, "Improper File Type."
ASCII and ordinary format programs can be used to exchange programs
between versions with incompatible PROG files. Use GET to load an
ASCII or ordinary format program file."
Therefore, I think that you assume that the HT-BASIC should be able to
read a DOS diskette file containing the "binary image" of the PROG
file of the LIF diskette that was copied onto the DOS disc by the
LIFUTIL. But the HT-BASIC -- or more specifically, the HT-BASIC DEMO
that I have downloaded free from the TransEra company's Website.--
appears not to be able to use the HP-BASIC PROG files. I would have
to SAVE a PROG file, when running the HP9816, thereby making the ASCII
file of the program (saved on the LIF diskette), and then copy that
ASCII file from the LIF diskette onto the PC hard disk as a DOS
text file. I can then use that DOS text file with the HT-BASIC in
WINDOWS); either by simply opening the file, or use the GET command of
the HT-BASIC (same as in HP-BASIC. However, my object is to find a
method, if possible, to be able to use a PROG file on the LIF diskette
without having to run the HP9816 and LOAD that PROG file into memory
and then SAVE it as an ASCII text file; for as I have said, I have
hundreds of LIF diskettes with several PROG files on each. So, that
method is not possible for me, and would wear the drives and computer,
as I have said.)
The thought has occurred to me, from what you and others have
written, that it may be that the only way for the PROG files of my LIF
diskettes to be usable without having to SAVE each one by running the
HP9816, is to obtain the HPBASIC for Windows -- a program which I have
some information about. I have read somewhere that there was an
HPBASIC for Windows, but that it has been discontinued. So, perhaps
if I could obtain that HPBASIC for Windows, that program would read
nicely the PROG files of my diskettes, or the binary image of it made
by the LIFUtil, and make an ASCII file of the program by the SAVE
command, and then I would be home free to carry that into the
HT-BASIC. I would like to be able to do this, as other scientists
could then have a means to check my calculations, by running the
HT-BASIC, which is a program that is available to others to run my
programs. So, perhaps the "interpreter" that I need, as you say,
could be taken from the HP-BASIC for Windows? Or, since the HP-BASIC
for Windows has been discontinued, could HP donate a copy of it to me,
if that would do the thing I seek to be able to do?
I conclude by adding another part of the Reference Manual of the
HT-BASIC that might mean something to you in relation to my problem.
"HTBasic PROG files with the wrong byte order are listed by the CAT
statement with a file type of "PROGL" or "PROGM", where the trailing L
or M indicates the file has LSB or MSB byte ordering. PROG files
created by HP BASIC are listed with the file type " HPPRG". Compatible
PROG files are listed with a file type of "PROG"."
Next, Responding to Roberto Orozco
of Test & Measurements Systems, Inc.
Loveland, Colorado
As my request about PROG files is a puzzling, I should clarify it
more.
Assume that my HP-9816 fails on me. In that case, I have hundreds of
LIF diskettes with PROG files on each one. Because the HP-9816 has
now failed on me (by my hypothetical supposition), the LIF diskettes
would be useless with the dead HP-9816 computer sitting in the corner.
Assume also that the disc drives that go with the 9816 have failed as
well. So, I have all of these LIF diskettes with much of my life's
work stored on them, but unusable, should the 9816 fail on me.
My Problem then: Is there a way to make a program that runs on DOS
PC, call it a "utility" that can run on a PC with DOS (or Windows98),
and operate on a LIF diskette, which I would insert into the A: drive
of the PC, and "interpret" a selected PROG file on the LIF diskette,
and transform that file into an ASCII text document that would show on
the computer screen and be save-able on the PC hard disk as a text
document? Is this possible? Does such a utility exist? Or could
such a program be made?
I have read your point that "The PROG format is an internal
representation of a BASIC program and can be understood only by the
BASIC interpreter." (I underscore "only.") This statement seems to
agree with what an HP engineer in the Netherlands said to me. So, can
the BASIC interpreter somehow be made into a utility that can run on
the DOS in my PC? What is this thing, "interpreter"? Is it a program
that de-codes the data of the PROG file on LIF diskette? Could not
this BASIC interpreter be put on a DOS program to do the same thing?
I have to nearly finish my manifold scientific works (about nuclear
reactor accident potentials and the harmfulness of nuclear radiation,
including statistical analysis calculations for stillbirths and infant
deaths in Bavaria from the radioactive fallout from Chernobyl in that
area (fairly high) to prepare the results for publication, and have to
make a series of final runs of a large number of programs, stored as
PROG files on LIF diskettes. I will probably have to change each
program some or a little, in this final computer calculations work.
In this process I cannot now foresee what all particular programs that
I shall require, or parts of programs.
Recently, I have selected what appears to be the latest versions of
the several programs that perform my most of my main several
scientific calculations, each being a PROG file, and SAVEd them as
ASCII files on separate LIF diskettes, using the 9816 computer (by
loading each one, one at a time, and then SAVE-ing them on a LIF
diskette sitting in the other disc drive as an ASCII file). In the
ASCII file form on the LIF diskette, I can, and have, using the LIF
Utility which you mentioned, copied them -- the ASCII text lines of
the program --- onto the DOS PC hard disk. By so doing, I can then
use the program, as an ASCII text file, with the HT-BASIC than runs on
Windows. (That is not HP-BASIC.) I use the DEMO version, which works
perfectly, and free! The HT-BASIC seems to take my HP-BASIC programs,
when in ASCII form, and runs them perfectly, without any changes..
The speed seems to be about 100 times that of the 9816, which greatly
helps also. Also, since every scientists seems to have Windows and a
PC, this is a way for me to demonstrate my calculations to others, by
sending them the HT-BASIC DEMO program and the ASCII file of the
program.
The value of obtaining an ASCII conversion program that would run on
DOS, is that should the 9816 fail on me, I could continue my work
using the PC and HT-BASIC for windows. Therefore, I have taken care,
while my HP9816 computer is still working, to convert many programs to
ASCII using the SAVE feature of the HP-BASIC of the 9816. But that
work took two days of solid work, and I only saved a relative few
programs that way (saved to ASCII file form). I worry that should the
9816 fail on me in the course of my final phase of work, all the rest
of the PROG files of the LIF diskettes (hundreds of diskettes) will be
lost, unless I buy a HP computer which can read these old files. (I am
not sure that such old PROG files can even be read with the newer HP
work station computers.) More importantly, I have no money to buy a
new computer. I am an independent scientist, and have great
difficulties in obtaining support for my work. I refer again to
www.technidigm.org/webb
I hope that this clarifies my problem. Oh! The LIF Utility that I
have says that it copies to the hard disk of the PC the "binary image"
of what is in any file of the LIF diskette, so I think it means that
it copies the "binary image" of the PROG file, should I select a PROG
file. Could that "binary image" be used in a DOS program that would
do the same as the BASIC interpreter, that is, to convert it, or
de-code it, to the ASCII text lines of the program?
... Also, I have, using the LIF Utility, LIFUTIL, copied a PROG file
on a LIF diskette as a "binary image" onto a DOS diskette, and copied
also from the LIF diskette onto the DOS diskette the ASCII file of the
exact same program, made by the SAVE command when the program was in
memory in the HP9816 computer. I could send you that DOS diskette, if
that would help, and also send the LIF diskette as well -- a copy of
it. Another engineer has suggested that it might be possible by
"reverse engineering," to make the de-code program by comparing the
binary image with the ASCII text of the program; or so I understood
him to mean.
Thanks to Mr. Slootweg, and Mr. Orozco for their suggestions, and to
those others who have responded by emails. Thank you all. And thanks
to Willem Brouwers of Denmark for informing me about HT-BASIC and its
DEMO!!!! Would TransEra consider making HT-BASIC work with the
HP-PROG files?
Richard Webb