Why can't Windows 10 install a simple HP LaserJet 2100m printer driver?

[Danny D.]

Where on earth is the HP laserjet 2100m (model c4172a) printer driver for
64bit Windows 10?

Am on my home network which has an HP LaserJet 2100m printer hooked to the
home broadband router using an Ethernet cable.

The home broadband router is wireless.
The windows7 computer has *no problem* printing to the HP2100m.
But Windows 10 can't even *find* the printer.
No matter what I do in Start -> Settings -> Devices -> Add a printer

What?
Windows *still* (after all these years!) can't even find a networked
printer?

And, Windows still, after all these years, can't install a common HP
driver?

Did Redmond get worse and worse and worse (and worse?) over time?

It's actually worse than what I'm saying above, as I decide to fall back on
the ancient method of downloading a 64-bit Windows 10 printer driver from
HP for the HP 2100m (model C4172A).

What is with HP?
What happened to a simple printer driver?

What is this garbage?
There *only* download available on HP support for the HP 2100m is some kind
of megalithic (iTunes like) huge (22MB) directory of "administrator" tools.

Huh?
I just want the stinkin' 10KB HP 2100m printer driver for heaven's sake!

22.1 Megabytes later, I have a horrible directory filled with utter
garbage, titled "park-v1.8.0" (HP Printer Administrator Rexource Kit,
1.9.0, 2 Feb 2016).

What the heck?
It's filled with garbage but no Win10 64-bit printer driver!

Which one of these directories contains the printer driver?
- active directory administrator template
add print model to comments
AutoUpgradeUPD
driver configuration utility
hpprlog
managed print administrator
Migrate-Server-Tools
prncon
RemovePlugPlayDrivers
updatenow

C'mon. I just want the tiny 10KB driver.
Where is it?

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:11:51 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

> C'mon. I just want the tiny 10KB driver.
> Where is it?

One test I ran that proves the network is working just fine is that I
choose another HP printer driver from the HP list in Windows 10.

Then I printed.
The printer spewed out pages and pages and pages and pages of cryptic
garbage on the top couple of lines, such that I had to kill the job.

But, the fact that it worked means there's nothing wrong with the network.

I admit I have NEVER touched Windows 10 before - but Jesus - they didn't
improve a thing? Nothing? Not even something as trivial as setting up an HP
printer?

Anyway, I can rant forever at Windows 10 (and I probably will - it's a POS)
but that doesn't solve my problem.

In that 22 MB of crap that HP gives me called "PARK", where the heck is the
10KB printer driver for the HP LaserJet 2100m (model c4172A) printer
driver?

And why the heck doesn't Windows 10 have that as part of the basic HP
printer driver default setup?

And why can't Windows 10 just install the printer driver?
(NOTE: The printer isn't connected to Windows 10. The printer is connected
to the router by ethernet. Windows 10 is connected to the router by wifi.)

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:23:22 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

> And why can't Windows 10 just install the printer driver?
> (NOTE: The printer isn't connected to Windows 10. The printer is connected
> to the router by ethernet. Windows 10 is connected to the router by wifi.)

Sorry for ranting against both HP and Redmond, but, jeesuz.

Didn't either of them learn *anything*?

Why can't Windows 10 just install the HP LaserJet 2100m (model C4172A)
printer driver?

And why can't HP just have a download for the printer driver if Redmond
can't figure it out on its own with 64-bit Windows 10?

Why do I have to ask *you* for help to do something this simple?

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:35:10 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

> Why do I have to ask *you* for help to do something this simple?

One other thing I tried in Windows 10 was to "add a printer using a TCP/IP
address or hostname".

All I know about the printer is that it's on:
192.168.1.215 and that its name is NP109A0BC (for whatever reason).

But when I try to add a printer using a TCP/IP address or hostname,
- Device type = Autodetect
- Hostname or IP address = 192.168.1.215
- Port name = ???
[x]Query the printer and automatically select the driver to use

I don't know what to put in the "port name" field but when I type
192.168.1.215 in the hostname field, that automatically fills out the port
name field with the same IP address so I leave that and hit NEXT.

It says 'contacting printer', and then "detecting the TCP/IP port...',
and then Windows will automatically move to the next page when the
detection is done.

Years later ... it says "additional port information required" and "the
device is not found on the network".

Well, it *is* on the network because the Windows 7 computer can see it just
fine.

This is so frustrating.
What hoops do I have to jump through just to get 64-bit Windows 10 to find
and recognize a basic HP LaserJet 2100m (model C4172A) printer?

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:42:43 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

> What hoops do I have to jump through just to get 64-bit Windows 10 to find
> and recognize a basic HP LaserJet 2100m (model C4172A) printer?

What astounds me is that Windows 10 itself doesn't have any capability
whatsoever to just install the needed driver.

And, that I can't *find* the driver on the HP web site.
The only thing on the HP support site is the 22MB PARK thing, but where is
the driver?

Anyway, I tried "generic" but nothing seemed to fit so I went back to
Windows 10 and picked "HP LaserJet Mono PCLm Class Driver".

(Why they don't just have a generic black & white laser printer driver is
beyond my comprehension.)

I told it to print a test page, but nothing happened, so, that failed.

The odd thing is that I can print just fine from Windows 7 on the same
network, so, it has to be a Windows 10 problem that it just can't print to
a printer that is on the network and known to be working.

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-21 18:35, Danny D. wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:23:22 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
>
>> >And why can't Windows 10 just install the printer driver?
>> >(NOTE: The printer isn't connected to Windows 10. The printer is connected
>> >to the router by ethernet. Windows 10 is connected to the router by wifi.)
> Sorry for ranting against both HP and Redmond, but, jeesuz.
>
> Didn't either of them learn*anything*?
>
> Why can't Windows 10 just install the HP LaserJet 2100m (model C4172A)

> printer driver? [...]

The printer is discontinued. That means that HP is no longer updating
the driver.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF10a/18972-18972-3328059-14638-3328069-25469.html

--
Best,
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-21 18:49, Danny D. wrote:
[...]

> The odd thing is that I can print just fine from Windows 7 on the same
> network,

Not odd at all, the driver is still good for W7.

> so, it has to be a Windows 10 problem that it just can't print to
> a printer that is on the network and known to be working.

It needs a driver to do that, and there's none available.

You should be able to use the W7 machine as a print server. Set up a
Homegroup on it, and Join the W10 machine to it. Then Share the printer.
It should now show up as a device in the Homegroup list on the W10
machine, and you should be able to print.

HTH

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:57:50 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> Not odd at all, the driver is still good for W7.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand at all what you're trying to tell me.

a. The Windows 7 driver (however it got there) is just fine for printing to
an HP LaserJet 2100m (model C4172A).
b. Yet, Windows 10 can't seem to print to this printer when Windows 10 is
on the same network as Windows 7.
c. Worse - I can't seem to *find* the driver on the HP site (all I can find
is the PARK stuff - where - maybe - the driver is hidden in that 22MB mess
somewhere?)

> It needs a driver to do that, and there's none available.

Hmmm... I still don't understand.
When I follow all the HP prompts to get the driver, I end up here:
http://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/COL40860/ds-99433-17/park-v1.8.0.zip

But when I download that 22MB PARK zip, I can't find the driver inside.
I "think" the driver is there.
I just can't find it because I don't know what to look for.

Are you saying that the reason I can't find a driver for Windows 10 to
print to the HP LaserJet 2100m (model C4172A) is that the driver simply
does not exist?

If so, why does that PARK download exist?
http://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/COL40860/ds-99433-17/park-v1.8.0.zip

I realize "I" can't find the driver inside that PARK download - but I never
once thought it does not exist.

Why wouldn't a common HP driver not exist for Windows 10?
What logic is there for such a thing?

> You should be able to use the W7 machine as a print server. Set up a
> Homegroup on it, and Join the W10 machine to it. Then Share the printer.
> It should now show up as a device in the Homegroup list on the W10
> machine, and you should be able to print.

I understand you - I do - but - um - that's crazy.
Utterly crazy.

I guess if it's the *only* way - then I'll do that.
But it's still crazy.

Can you confirm what I "think" you are telling me?
Is it really true that HP never wrote a 64-bit Windows 10 driver for one of
their most common printers?

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:36:14 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> The printer is discontinued. That means that HP is no longer updating
> the driver.
>
> http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF10a/18972-18972-3328059-14638-3328069-25469.html

I understand your words. I really do.
But I can't "believe" them.

1. I do believe the printer is discontinued.
2. Lots and lots and lots (thousands!) of printers are discontinued.
3. They just don't make them anymore.

But, in general, printers last a while so the driver, in general, last a
while.

Plus, if you search for the drivers for this printer, you *find* them on
the HP site. They are that 22MB PARK junk. So, somewhere in there must be
the driver.

A. I go here first (like you did):
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF10a/18972-18972-3328059-14638-3328069-25469.html

B. Then click on "Support and Drivers" to go here:
http://h20180.www2.hp.com/apps/Lookup?h_pagetype=s-001&h_lang=en&h_client=s-s-r2515-1&h_cc=us&h_query=HP+LaserJet+2100+Printer+series

C. Then click on "HP LaserJet 2100m Printer" to go here:
http://h20566.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/public/psi/home/?cc=us&lang=en&sp4ts.oid=25469&ac.admitted=1471827758333.1123376534.199480143

D. Then I click on "Get drivers, software & firmware." to go here:
http://h20566.www2.hp.com/hpsc/swd/public/readIndex?sp4ts.oid=60650&lang=en&cc=us

E. Then I select "Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit)" to go here:
http://h20566.www2.hp.com/hpsc/swd/public/readIndex?sp4ts.oid=60650&swLangOid=8&swEnvOid=4192

F. Then I select "HP Printer Administrator Resource Kit" to get this zip:
http://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/COL40860/ds-99433-17/park-v1.8.0.zip

So, my fundamental question is:
Q: Isn't in *that* 22MB PARK download the Win10 64-bit driver?

[GlowingBlueMist]

I just told my 64-bit W10 to install a printer.
When asked I told it the printer I wanted was not listed.
Then I told it to do a Windows Update and after a very long wait the
printer list was "temporarily" updated to include many more printers
than what come pre-installed with W10.

The following drivers were then available to install.
One of them, most likely one of the "Series" drivers will do what you want.

Laserjet 2100 PCL6
Laserjet 2100 Series PCL5
Laserjet 2100 Series PS

Exit the printer installer and the printer list reverts to just the
drivers that come with W10 and you will need to do the "update" all over
again for the full list.

So it sounds like it's time to give it another try.

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-21 21:09, Danny D. wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:57:50 -0400, Wolf K wrote:
>
>> Not odd at all, the driver is still good for W7.
>
> I'm sorry, but I don't understand at all what you're trying to tell me.

Your W7 machine has a driver for that obsolete printer. But there is no
driver that works with W10.

[snip irrelevancies]

To quote from my other post:

The printer is discontinued. That means that HP is no longer updating
the driver.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF10a/18972-18972-3328059-14638-3328069-25469.html

[David E. Ross]

The problem is that HP has a history of building hardware that is much
more durable than HP's support of that hardware. I have a similar
problem with a Canon CanoScan N670U scanner. When my Windows XP PC
died, I got a Windows 7 PC. There are no Windows 7 drivers for the
scanner, so I moved it to my wife's Windows XP PC. If her PC dies, I
will have a perfectly good scanner that does not work with any PC.

--
David E. Ross

Republicans scream that Hillary Clinton was responsible
for the tragedy in Benghazi. They conveniently forget
that it was the Republican-controlled Congress that
drastically cut the State Department's budget for
embassy and consulate protection.

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-21 21:09, Danny D. wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:36:14 -0400, Wolf K wrote:
>
>> >The printer is discontinued. That means that HP is no longer updating
>> >the driver.
>> >
>> >http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF10a/18972-18972-3328059-14638-3328069-25469.html
> I understand your words. I really do.
> But I can't "believe" them.
>
> 1. I do believe the printer is discontinued.
> 2. Lots and lots and lots (thousands!) of printers are discontinued.
> 3. They just don't make them anymore.

It also means that eventually they stop updating drivers. There may be a
driver out there that works, see Glowing Blue Mists's post, but his
advice essentially is "Try these, one of them may work."

[snip]

> F. Then I select "HP Printer Administrator Resource Kit" to get this zip:
> http://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/COL40860/ds-99433-17/park-v1.8.0.zip
>
> So, my fundamental question is:
> Q: Isn't in *that* 22MB PARK download the Win10 64-bit driver?

PARK == Printer Administrator Resource Kit. I actually d/l it and poked
around inside it. No driver. It's a set of tools to configure the HP
Universal Print Driver to work with what you've got. You start by
"acquiring" a driver, in your case it would be the one that came with
the printer. But that one won't work with W10, apparently, so you'll
have to configure it....

Bottom line: there is no W10 driver for your model printer, but Hp has
kindly provided a kit fro you to roll your own.

You could try the W7 driver on the W10 machine. D/L and install it. If
it works, fine, although it will likely not be able to access all the
printer's features. If not, use the W7 machine as a print server. Takes
about 5 minutes to set up.

HTH

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-21 22:16, David E. Ross wrote:
> On 8/21/2016 6:53 PM, Wolf K wrote:
>> On 2016-08-21 21:09, Danny D. wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:57:50 -0400, Wolf K wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not odd at all, the driver is still good for W7.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, but I don't understand at all what you're trying to tell me.
>>
>> Your W7 machine has a driver for that obsolete printer. But there is no
>> driver that works with W10.
>>
>> [snip irrelevancies]
>>
>> To quote from my other post:
>>
>> The printer is discontinued. That means that HP is no longer updating
>> the driver.
>>
>> http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF10a/18972-18972-3328059-14638-3328069-25469.html
>>
>> HTH
>>
>
> The problem is that HP has a history of building hardware that is much
> more durable than HP's support of that hardware. I have a similar
> problem with a Canon CanoScan N670U scanner. When my Windows XP PC
> died, I got a Windows 7 PC. There are no Windows 7 drivers for the
> scanner, so I moved it to my wife's Windows XP PC. If her PC dies, I
> will have a perfectly good scanner that does not work with any PC.

It might be worth getting a new(er) PC for your wife, and set up the XP
machine solely for the scanner. less use --> longer life.

Have a good day,

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 20:37:10 -0500, GlowingBlueMist wrote:

> Laserjet 2100 PCL6
> Laserjet 2100 Series PCL5
> Laserjet 2100 Series PS
>
> Exit the printer installer and the printer list reverts to just the
> drivers that come with W10 and you will need to do the "update" all over
> again for the full list.
>
> So it sounds like it's time to give it another try.

That sounds like a great idea!
Thank you for testing that out.
I will try that.

Which do people think I should use?
a. PCL6
b. PCL5
c. PS

I'm guessing pcl stands for printer-control-language and I know that PS is
postscript. It doesn't matter to me which I choose.

Does it matter?

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:16:22 -0700, David E. Ross wrote:

> The problem is that HP has a history of building hardware that is much
> more durable than HP's support of that hardware. I have a similar
> problem with a Canon CanoScan N670U scanner. When my Windows XP PC
> died, I got a Windows 7 PC. There are no Windows 7 drivers for the
> scanner, so I moved it to my wife's Windows XP PC. If her PC dies, I
> will have a perfectly good scanner that does not work with any PC.

In the past, a "generic" driver works sometimes.
Do you think there is a good chance that any old driver for an HP machine
that is similar to that "discontinued" machine will work?

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 21:53:45 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> Your W7 machine has a driver for that obsolete printer.
> But there is no driver that works with W10.

That stinks.
I guess I must infer that the Windows 7 driver won't work with Windows 10.
Is that a correct inference?

> The printer is discontinued.
> That means that HP is no longer updating the driver.
> http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF10a/18972-18972-3328059-14638-3328069-25469.html

I understood the words but in my all (many) years, I personally have never
run into a situation where a common printer didn't have a driver on a
common operating system.

If the driver no longer exists, why does HP offer that huge PARK download
when you follow the prompts for the driver.
http://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/COL40860/ds-99433-17/park-v1.8.0.zip

What is that PARK download then?

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 20:37:10 -0500, GlowingBlueMist wrote:

> Laserjet 2100 PCL6
> Laserjet 2100 Series PCL5
> Laserjet 2100 Series PS
>
> Exit the printer installer and the printer list reverts to just the
> drivers that come with W10 and you will need to do the "update" all over
> again for the full list.
>
> So it sounds like it's time to give it another try.

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 20:37:10 -0500, GlowingBlueMist wrote:

> Then I told it to do a Windows Update and after a very long wait

Wow. A very long wait is a very long time.
I'm still waiting ... half an hour so far ... but I'll keep waiting.

[Paul in Houston TX]

Current wait time is about 8 hours.
There is a temporary patch for that but I forgot the KB#.

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:22:54 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> There may be a
> driver out there that works, see Glowing Blue Mists's post, but his
> advice essentially is "Try these, one of them may work."

When I tried to install the printer, Windows 10 "recognized" the HP
LaserJet 2100m but didn't have the driver (as expected).

Then I hit the button in the "install the printer driver" dialog box, which
said "Windows Update" as blue mist suggested.

It said "Windows is updating the list of printers.
This might take a few minutes."

They're not kidding about the "few minutes". I didn't start a stop watch,
but, I'd say it took about fifteen or twenty (or so).

Then it showed three (yup, 3) lines for the manufacturer I care about, each
one slightly different spelling:
1. Hewlett Packard
2. Hewlett-Packard
3. HP

The first "Hewlett Packard" only had four entries, none of which were what
I wanted.

The second "Hewlett-Packard" had more entries, but not the one I had
wanted.

The third "HP" has tons more entries, so, next time, that's the one to look
at first.

Woo hoo!
Three choices are:
- HP LaserJet 2100 PCL6
- HP LaserJet 2100 Series PCL 5
- HP HaserJet 2100 Series PS

Not knowing which to choose, I figured a "series" was better than not a
series, so, I choose "HP LaserJet 2100 Series PCL 5".

At 7:50 it said "installing printer" and the green bar kept cycling over
and over and over again (how big are these things?) ...

After a few minutes, it said:
- You've successfully added HP LaserJet 2100 Series PCL5
[Print a test page]

Woo hoo! I knew you guys wouldn't let me down!
- Windows Printer Test Page
- You have correctly installed your HP LaserJet 2100 Series PCL5 on NAME
- (lots of stuff)
- Print Processor = hpzpplhn
- OS Environment = Windows x64
- Driver Name = HP LaserJet 2100 Series PCL 5
- Driver Type = Type 3 - User Mode
- Driver Version = 6.1.7233.0
- Additional Print Driver Files:
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZLSLHN.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZSSLHN.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZUILHN.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZLSLHN.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPCDMCLH.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZ5RLHN.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZSMLHN.GPD
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZSLHN.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPMCPD25.CFG
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZSCLHN.INI
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPMCPDPS.XML
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZSCLHN.DTD
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZEVLHN.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZIDR12.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZINW12.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZIPM12.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZIPR12.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZIPT12.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPZISN12.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPBMIAPI.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPBMINI.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPBOID.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\DRIVERS\x64\3\HPBOIDPS.DLL

>> http://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/COL40860/ds-99433-17/park-v1.8.0.zip
>> So, my fundamental question is:
>> Q: Isn't in *that* 22MB PARK download the Win10 64-bit driver?
>
> PARK == Printer Administrator Resource Kit. I actually d/l it and poked
> around inside it. No driver.

Drat. I poked around also, and I clicked on *every* exe (I know, it's not a
great idea, but I was desperate and since it was from HP, I 'trusted' it.)

Thanks for looking for me because I wouldn't know what a driver looks like
if it hit me in the face.

> It's a set of tools to configure the HP
> Universal Print Driver to work with what you've got. You start by
> "acquiring" a driver, in your case it would be the one that came with
> the printer. But that one won't work with W10, apparently, so you'll
> have to configure it....
>
> Bottom line: there is no W10 driver for your model printer, but Hp has
> kindly provided a kit fro you to roll your own.

Um... ok. I wouldn't know how to roll my own if it hit me in the face.

> You could try the W7 driver on the W10 machine. D/L and install it. If
> it works, fine, although it will likely not be able to access all the
> printer's features. If not, use the W7 machine as a print server. Takes
> about 5 minutes to set up.

Thanks for sticking with me. I think the solution to hit the Windows Update
button in the printer driver form did the trick, as the test page worked.

Woo hoo! I knew you guys wouldn't let me down.
Certainly that was NOT intuitive, so I thank you all for helping me out!

Let's hope this helps the next guy with the same problem!

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 21:52:41 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

> Current wait time is about 8 hours.
> There is a temporary patch for that but I forgot the KB#.

Thanks. It finally worked!

Woo hoo!

- You've successfully added HP LaserJet 2100 Series PCL5
[Print a test page]

Woo hoo! I knew you guys wouldn't let me down!
- Windows Printer Test Page
- You have correctly installed your HP LaserJet 2100 Series PCL5 on NAME
- (lots of stuff)
- Print Processor = hpzpplhn
- OS Environment = Windows x64
- Driver Name = HP LaserJet 2100 Series PCL 5
- Driver Type = Type 3 - User Mode
- Driver Version = 6.1.7233.0

Thank you all for your expert help!!!!!!!!
You guys ARE the Usenet!

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:36:14 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> The printer is discontinued.
> That means that HP is no longer updating
> the driver.

The only thing still confusing me is *who* made the driver that eventually
worked, from the temporary "Windows Update" from within the printer
installation dialog.

Why would only the Windows 10 temporary update have the HP LaserJet 2100
when HP themselves didn't have the driver for the HP LaserJet 2100?

Did Redmond write the driver?
Did HP write the driver?
Why can't the driver be in the "regular" Windows update?

Why is the driver only available in the temporary Windows update?

[Paul in Houston TX]

It wasn't me! It was everyone else!
:)

[Ammammata]

Il giorno Mon 22 Aug 2016 04:16:22a, *David E. Ross* inviava su
comp.sys.hp.hardware il messaggio news:npdn9o$eup$1...@news.albasani.net.
Vediamo cosa scrisse:

> Canon CanoScan N670U scanner. When my Windows XP PC
> died, I got a Windows 7 PC. There are no Windows 7 drivers for the
> scanner,

I used safely the old XP drivers in W7 (32bit); sorry I can't remember the
model

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
>>>>> http://www.bb2002.it :) <<<<<
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-21 22:33, Danny D. wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 21:53:45 -0400, Wolf K wrote:
>
>> Your W7 machine has a driver for that obsolete printer.
>> But there is no driver that works with W10.
>
> That stinks.
> I guess I must infer that the Windows 7 driver won't work with Windows 10.
> Is that a correct inference?

No. Try it and see.

>> The printer is discontinued.
>> That means that HP is no longer updating the driver.
>> http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF10a/18972-18972-3328059-14638-3328069-25469.html
>
> I understood the words but in my all (many) years, I personally have never
> run into a situation where a common printer didn't have a driver on a
> common operating system.

Sheer luck, I'd say. It's a common experience.

> If the driver no longer exists, why does HP offer that huge PARK download
> when you follow the prompts for the driver.
> http://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/COL40860/ds-99433-17/park-v1.8.0.zip
>
> What is that PARK download then?

Read my other post.

Re: GlowingBlueMist's list, unless you have all the printer specs on
hand, you can't know which one may work. So just try them.

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-21 23:40, Danny D. wrote:
[...]
> The only thing still confusing me is*who* made the driver that eventually

> worked, from the temporary "Windows Update" from within the printer
> installation dialog.

[...]

Hewlett Packard. OS makers are not responsible for drivers.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 08:23:21 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> Hewlett Packard. OS makers are not responsible for drivers.

That makes sense.
But then why didn't HP have the driver on their web site?
And, why didn't Windows just *find* the driver in the first place?

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 08:19:19 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

>> I understood the words but in my all (many) years, I personally have never
>> run into a situation where a common printer didn't have a driver on a
>> common operating system.
>
> Sheer luck, I'd say. It's a common experience.

I must admit, I've been using Windows since the 2.1 days, and, well, that's
probably, on average, one printer a year, so, something like 20 printers or
so over time.

In the beginning, as you know, the driver came with the printer - and then
Windows started *finding* the drivers for us - and then Windows started
*including* the drivers.

So it was odd that I wasn't able, at first, to get Windows to *find* the
driver - but - in this case - with the temporarty printer-specific Windows
update, it found the correct driver.

But why did it require that temporary Windows update?
Did Microsoft write that driver?
Did HP?

If HP wrote it - why wasn't it on HP's web site?
So odd this stuff.
Even after 20 years.

>> If the driver no longer exists, why does HP offer that huge PARK download
>> when you follow the prompts for the driver.
>> http://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/COL40860/ds-99433-17/park-v1.8.0.zip
>>
>> What is that PARK download then?
>
> Read my other post.
>
> Re: GlowingBlueMist's list, unless you have all the printer specs on
> hand, you can't know which one may work. So just try them.

GlowingblueMist's suggest worked of doing a temporary printer-specific
Windows update.

What's confusing about that is that it's not intuitive that it would be
temporary - and it's not intuitive that the temporary Windows update would
have the driver but that Windows itself couldn't find the driver and that
the HP site didn't have the driver.

So confusing after 20 years of installing printers.
Does it make any sense to you?

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 07:34:00 +0000 (UTC), Ammammata wrote:

> I used safely the old XP drivers in W7 (32bit); sorry I can't remember the
> model

Thanks for trying to help out.

I'm glad the printer ng is crossposted because, for the life of me, I can't
imagine that we need a thousand *different* printer drivers.

I just can't imagine that printers are *that* different, model to model.

So, sheer logic tells me that probably a huge number (half? three
quarters?) are really just duplicates of a more generic printer driver.

There can't be thousands of different printer drivers.
Printers aren't all that different.

[pjp]

In article <npdn9o$eup$1...@news.albasani.net>, nob...@nowhere.invalid
says...

>
> On 8/21/2016 6:53 PM, Wolf K wrote:
> > On 2016-08-21 21:09, Danny D. wrote:
> >> On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:57:50 -0400, Wolf K wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not odd at all, the driver is still good for W7.
> >>
> >> I'm sorry, but I don't understand at all what you're trying to tell me.
> >
> > Your W7 machine has a driver for that obsolete printer. But there is no
> > driver that works with W10.
> >
> > [snip irrelevancies]
> >
> > To quote from my other post:
> >
> > The printer is discontinued. That means that HP is no longer updating
> > the driver.
> >
> > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF10a/18972-18972-3328059-14638-3328069-25469.html
> >
> > HTH
> >
>
> The problem is that HP has a history of building hardware that is much
> more durable than HP's support of that hardware. I have a similar
> problem with a Canon CanoScan N670U scanner. When my Windows XP PC
> died, I got a Windows 7 PC. There are no Windows 7 drivers for the
> scanner, so I moved it to my wife's Windows XP PC. If her PC dies, I
> will have a perfectly good scanner that does not work with any PC.

That's so common with almost all add-on hardware. Designed/forced
obselescience.

[Paul]

Wolf K wrote:

>
> OS makers are not responsible for drivers.

Categorically *wrong*. What good is an OS that you
cannot install ?

Sufficient drivers are on the OS installer disc,
to produce a minimally operational computer. Between
the hardware makers and the OS makers, they contrive
to stick with standards where possible. But nothing
prevents a hardware maker from doing their own thing,
and being left behind.

1) AHCI or IDE or RAID driver.
(MSAHCI, MSIDE, IASTORV, STORPORT, etc)

Prevents "Inaccessible Boot Volume".

The computer would have a STOP error, if
the disk driver is not available.

There are situations where this remains a problem.
(Like using an archive-only 10TB hard drive with no
standards-compliant interface. There is always *something*
that is not on the DVD.) Microsoft tries to cover
the high-runner situations for you. One flavor of
disk drive (that consumers are not supposed to be
able to buy), the *owner* of the drive provides the
driver (archive.org, Google, Facebook). Those drives
do not conform to the ATA standard.

If you want RAID, you should bring up the system in
AHCI, and use a migrate function. Flipping on RAID
immediately, isn't always necessary. Good RAIDs support
migration after the OS is up.

2) VESA video driver (a.k.a Microsoft Basic Display Adapter).
The OS will offer operation of the screen at
1024x768 on Win10, using a driver that knows of the frame
buffer being in a standard place. Other OSes may offer
800x600 or 640x480 on VESA mode. No video acceleration
is offered. Just a basic frame buffer so the
user can see the screen. Presenting a black screen
wouldn't be very useful.

Those are examples of minimums for the usage of humans.

Having a NIC driver is nice, and due to the small size
of NDIS drivers, they can pour a ton of those on the
disc as well. If you have a working NIC, you can then
download optional drivers. I have at least one
config here, where I have to get the driver DVD out
of the motherboard box, because an older OS doesn't
have the necessary NDIS driver (hardware newer than OS).

Standard "Class" drivers are also included. By licensing,
Microsoft removed the right of manufacturers to include
things like USB2 or USB3 drivers. Those drivers are now
on the installer disc. Having working USB is necessary in
a world without alternatives like PS/2 for keyboard/mouse.
Firewire is covered by a Class driver (until Win8.1/Win10
removed Firewire networking support? - maybe storage
still works).

An HP printer is a third-party device, separate from
the computer, and optional in every sense of the word.
Obtaining a driver, can happen at your leisure. Because
now, you've bootstrapped yourself far enough to surf
the web.

The worst part of all drivers, is the state of documentation.
And not knowing what is available (Microsoft Universal
Printer Driver), or where to get it. Or in the case of
dot-matrix printer support, finding out that there
are actually a form of Class drivers right in the OS
for those too (Epson or IBM mode, with names that
make no sense). Only a rocket scientist gets their
ten year old dot-matrix running again. The support is
there, but it's almost impossible to figure out.

Paul

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:40:59 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In the beginning, as you know, the driver came with the printer - and then
>Windows started *finding* the drivers for us - and then Windows started
>*including* the drivers.

A driver is for a combination of a particular printer and a particular
version of Windows. For a Windows version that comes out after the
printer did, the printer can not come with a driver for it.

[Ken Blake]

I missed the early part of this thread, so I don't know what printer
you are talking about. But writing a driver for a new version of
Windows takes time and money. HP, like all manufacturers, does so only
if the printer is not very old and they are still selling it in
sufficient quantities. It does not pay for them to invest the time and
money to write drivers for products that are obsolescent.

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-22 13:16, Paul wrote:
> Wolf K wrote:
>
>> >
>> >OS makers are not responsible for drivers.

> Categorically*wrong*. What good is an OS that you
> cannot install ?
[...]

I'm sorry, I should have been more explicit. Yes, my comment is
"categorically wrong" as applied to all drivers, but it does apply to
printer drivers. Drivers for printers and other peripherals are the
responsibility of the manufacturers, who of course want their drivers
easily accessible/usable. They supply current drivers to the OS makers,
but the most common advice re: a driver problem is "get it from the
peripheral maker". The context of this thread is a driver for an
obsolete printer. I don't think MS is responsible for supplying that,
and it's a marketing decision for HP whether to update it or not. OP's
report of success implies that it was updated, but it wasn't in W10
collection of current drivers.

Re: your comments on drivers needed for minimal functionality, I quite
agree, but they weren't the ones I had in mind, as they are outside the
context of this thread.

And as always, Linux is whole 'nother universe. :-)

[s|b]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:11:51 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

> Where on earth is the HP laserjet 2100m (model c4172a) printer driver for
> 64bit Windows 10?

Why can't you ask this in alt.comp.os.windows-10?

--
s|b

[Wolf K]

If you mean "Why isn't there more standardisation among printer
drivers?", I agree, with your sentiment. Each printer model has tweaks
and quirks, and so the generic drivers have to be tweaked and quirked,
too. If printers were smarter, the only software you'd have to install
would be the printer control panel. The OS would send your instructions
along with the file to be printed, and the printer would do the rest.
However, there's a lot of "intellectual property" involved, which tends
to get in the way of sensible co-operation on basic standards.

[Unknown]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Where on earth is the HP laserjet 2100m (model c4172a) printer driver for
>64bit Windows 10?

The following drivers are available on Win10 64 bit
CL5, PCL6 and PS for the LJ2100.
Microsoft are not and never have been responsible for manufacturer specific
printer drivers.
Go to add new printer
Click the printer I want isn't listed
Click add a local printer or network printer with manual settings
Select use existing or create new port as required
Click on Windows Update and wait (it will take a few minutes0.
Look under HP and voila!
The above is from memory so the words may be different.
Tony

[Unknown]

Just saw this. I don't use PCL6 because of some problems it used to have (years
ago and I can't remember). Try PCL5, I doubt you will need PostScript.
Tony

[Unknown]

It isn't an OS problem, it is a printer driver problem.
Tony

[Sjouke Burry]

Because that wont sell any new printers.

[GlowingBlueMist]

Glad your printer is working for you at last.

I too run rather old machines from HP and have seen the update printer
list keep mine working from W7 to W10.

Presently running an old Laserjet HP4100 with approximately 10000 pages
between cartridge replacements and an old DeskJet 952c. Both were
inherited from my old office when they shut our division down but they
just keep on running as they were models made for office use.

[Unknown]

FredW <fr...@ninmule.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:30:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
>dot nz> wrote:
>>"s|b" <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:11:51 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where on earth is the HP laserjet 2100m (model c4172a) printer driver for
>>>> 64bit Windows 10?
>>>
>>>Why can't you ask this in alt.comp.os.windows-10?
>>>
>

>>It isn't an OS problem, it is a printer driver problem.
>
>

>Who are you trying to fool?
>It is a printer driver problem for a specific OS.
>Not a problem in Windows 7.
>
>--
>Fred W. (NLD)
I never try to fool people. Printer drivers for specific printers are and have
for decades been provided by the printer manufacturer. I you think about it you
must come to that realisation - how the hell could any OS provider know how to
interface with hundreds of different printers?
Tony

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 10:59:36 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> A driver is for a combination of a particular printer and a particular
> version of Windows. For a Windows version that comes out after the
> printer did, the printer can not come with a driver for it.

Except, in this case, somehow, Windows 10 x64 had a driver but only when
temporarily updated.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:37:05 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> If you mean "Why isn't there more standardisation among printer
> drivers?", I agree, with your sentiment.

I guess that's what I meant.
I mean, what does a printer do anyway?

Sure, their are gee-whiz things that printers can do, but, c'mon ...
fundamentally, they all do the same thing.

> Each printer model has tweaks
> and quirks, and so the generic drivers have to be tweaked and quirked,
> too. If printers were smarter, the only software you'd have to install
> would be the printer control panel.

This is an interesting point.

I can plug in any telephone to my telephone outlet, and it will work.
I can plug in any power supply to my electrical mains and it will work.
I can plug in any router in my house - and it will work with everything.

Why can't printers be the same?

They all do the same thing.
Sure, one can define a superset of "features", but 'cmon.
All printers do the same thing.

> The OS would send your instructions
> along with the file to be printed, and the printer would do the rest.

This seems to me to be a viable direction.
Just like I can format a USB stick on almost any device and it will most
likely work on any other device that accepts that format, the printer
should simply accept generic instructions from the computer OS.

How hard can it be to develop a generic printer language anyway?
It doesn't have to handle everything. Just many things.

> However, there's a lot of "intellectual property" involved, which tends
> to get in the way of sensible co-operation on basic standards.

I have had so many HP printers that I realize that 90% of what HP does is
to prevent people from using non-HP equipment. Even so, I have been filling
my own ink (and trying to reset arbitrary expiry dates) for years and
refilling my own toner for (fewer) years.

So, the fact there are so many proprietary printer drivers may very well be
simply that this is how the printer manufacturers want it to be.

I've learned (mostly from calling cable and cellular companies for pricing
plans) that when something so simple is so complex - then it's complex on
purpose. The Marketing guys *want* it to be complex.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:29:43 -0500, Tony wrote:

> Just saw this. I don't use PCL6 because of some problems it used to have (years
> ago and I can't remember). Try PCL5, I doubt you will need PostScript.
> Tony

Thanks. The PCL5 driver worked.

Why do they even have the other drivers?

What's the *practical* difference?

[Wolf K]

Additional instructions in PCL6. Because printers do more and more.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:16:39 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> I'm sorry, I should have been more explicit. Yes, my comment is
> "categorically wrong" as applied to all drivers, but it does apply to
> printer drivers. Drivers for printers and other peripherals are the
> responsibility of the manufacturers, who of course want their drivers
> easily accessible/usable. They supply current drivers to the OS makers,
> but the most common advice re: a driver problem is "get it from the
> peripheral maker".

I understand your point that HP should "supply" me the driver - but I
disagree with your concept that I need to go to *all* my peripheral makers
in order to get their drivers.

We all know it used to be almost 100% that way (back before Windows 95 for
example, and for Linux up until only a handful of years ago).

But nowadays, for both Windows and Linux, the drivers are "just there".

I still remember the first time in my life that I booted to an OS that
*everything* just worked (it was Knoppix at the time). I was shocked.

The OS found the drivers for all the peripherals.
That's how an OS should be (IMHO).

> The context of this thread is a driver for an
> obsolete printer.

I think it's funny that you call the printer "obsolete" (noun) because on
day 1 it printed text and images to paper - and it *still* prints text and
images to paper and - even more importantly - a brand new printer would do
the exact same thing!

So, "I" don't consider it any more obsolete than you consider your right
hand to be obsolete. Your forebearers in the stone age had a hand that did
the exact same thing that your hand does today.

Is your hand obsolete?

Note: I realize you were speaking from a MARKETING perspective - in which
case to HP, they would love to obsolete (verb) my printer.

But my point is that I didn't even realize that printing text and images to
paper was "obsolete" technology - until now. :)

> I don't think MS is responsible for supplying that,
> and it's a marketing decision for HP whether to update it or not. OP's
> report of success implies that it was updated, but it wasn't in W10
> collection of current drivers.

I'm actually no longer livid at Microsoft for making installing one of the
most common printers on the planet (an HP laserjet) difficult.

I guess I should have realized there are *two* very different Windows
updates.
1. The "real" windows update (which is automatic)
2. The "temporary" windows update (which I had to press a button to get)

I'm not even mad at HP at this point - because HP is a MARKETING machine,
from start to finish. HP sells *ink* (not printers!). Just as Kodak sold
chemicals, HP sells colored water. They make almost all their money on
their colored water - so that's why they do what they do.

NOTE: I swore off HP injets a few years ago - for that very reason - but HP
will be hugely successful selling colored water until and unless *everyone*
comes to the same conclusion that I did (which is not likely to happen).

> Re: your comments on drivers needed for minimal functionality, I quite
> agree, but they weren't the ones I had in mind, as they are outside the
> context of this thread.

His argument was lucid that you want a basic functional OS, where the
"update" handles the rest.

I just didn't know there were to types of updates:
a. The normal update
b. The special update

> And as always, Linux is whole 'nother universe. :-)

In actuality, the last time I installed the driver for Linux (which is a
different process, involving CUPS, as I recall), it was a breeze. In fact,
it was *far easier* to install that very same printer on Linux (Ubuntu)
than on Windows 10.

That's a sobering thought, but in the end, it was only hard to install the
printer driver on Windows 10 because the method used was unknown to me
(even though I had installed many printers on Windows over the years).

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:15:52 -0500, Tony wrote:

> The following drivers are available on Win10 64 bit
> CL5, PCL6 and PS for the LJ2100.
> Microsoft are not and never have been responsible for manufacturer specific
> printer drivers.
> Go to add new printer
> Click the printer I want isn't listed
> Click add a local printer or network printer with manual settings
> Select use existing or create new port as required
> Click on Windows Update and wait (it will take a few minutes0.
> Look under HP and voila!
> The above is from memory so the words may be different.
> Tony

Thank you for that summary.
That process is exactly what worked.
All other attempts failed, to wit:

1. It's bad enough that Windows 10, using the *normal* process for
installing a printer (which we've all used for decades on Windows), failed
miserably to install the printer driver for one of the most common printers
on the planet.

2. It's even worse that HP support failed just as miserably, using the
normal process (which we've all used for decades with HP printers) for
downloading a printer driver to a basic and very common laserjet printer.

3. The good news is that most likely HP drivers write themselves, in so
much as a printer driver is no big deal in terms of porting (and testing &
supplying & maintaining) from Windows 7 to Windows 10 - simply because HP
almost certainly has automated processes for such trivially easy ports such
as these are.

4. Therefore, the better news is that HP already (secretly, as it were)
supplied the HP LaserJet 2100m printer driver to Microsoft, such that the
"secret temporary" update process worked to install the correct printer
driver.

In the end, who knew that there was a secret temporary "Windows 10 update"
that is entirely separate and outside the "regular" Windows 10 update?

I certainly did not know this temporary update existed.
But thanks to you (plural) on the Usenet, I do now.

Thanks!

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:16:53 -0400, Paul wrote:

> Categorically *wrong*. What good is an OS that you
> cannot install ?

This is a fair question.

> Sufficient drivers are on the OS installer disc,
> to produce a minimally operational computer.

This is a fair observation.

> Between
> the hardware makers and the OS makers, they contrive
> to stick with standards where possible.

Fair also.

> But nothing
> prevents a hardware maker from doing their own thing,
> and being left behind.

I posit that a printer is nothing special in terms of driver need.
Therefore I present the suggestion that the only reason there are a billion
drivers for printers is because the printer manufacturer *wants* it that
way.

Why?
I'm not quite sure why - but my hypothesis is that it serves their
marketing purposes more so than any consumer benefit.

> 1) AHCI or IDE or RAID driver.
> (MSAHCI, MSIDE, IASTORV, STORPORT, etc)
> Prevents "Inaccessible Boot Volume".

Makes sense.

> 2) VESA video driver (a.k.a Microsoft Basic Display Adapter).

> Those are examples of minimums for the usage of humans.

As an owner of those dastardly Nvidia drivers where I have to shim the
kernel every time I change it on Linux - simply because Nvidia drivers have
to be shimmed as a binary into a binary (which is a miserable process for
the non technical person such as I am), I agree with providing a basic
video driver (e.g., nouveau) and to heck with the proprietary drivers.

All displays do the same thing - just as all printers do the same thing.

> Having a NIC driver is nice, and due to the small size
> of NDIS drivers, they can pour a ton of those on the
> disc as well.

All wifi cards do the same thing - just as all printers do the same thing.
There's no need for proprietary NIC drivers, IMHO.

> If you have a working NIC, you can then
> download optional drivers.

I agree with your concept, which is that a 'minimal' necessary system keeps
the download ISO small (which, overall, is a good thing).

> Standard "Class" drivers are also included. By licensing,
> Microsoft removed the right of manufacturers to include
> things like USB2 or USB3 drivers. Those drivers are now
> on the installer disc.

USB drivers are great in that they seem to be universal - which is a good
thing.

> An HP printer is a third-party device, separate from
> the computer, and optional in every sense of the word.
> Obtaining a driver, can happen at your leisure. Because
> now, you've bootstrapped yourself far enough to surf
> the web.

You do make a convincing point.

> The worst part of all drivers, is the state of documentation.
> And not knowing what is available (Microsoft Universal
> Printer Driver), or where to get it.

Aha! I didn't know about the MS Universal Printer Driver!
Does it work?
Would it work for my HP 2100m LaserJet?

> Or in the case of
> dot-matrix printer support, finding out that there
> are actually a form of Class drivers right in the OS
> for those too (Epson or IBM mode, with names that
> make no sense). Only a rocket scientist gets their
> ten year old dot-matrix running again. The support is
> there, but it's almost impossible to figure out.

That's kind of what happened here.
I couldn't get my printer up and running on Windows 10 on my own, even
though I must have installed a score of printers in the past score of
years.

I had to ask you for help.
Luckily, people like you (plural you) exist!
Thanks for being part of the Usenet!

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 01:11:51 +0200, Sjouke Burry wrote:

>> That makes sense.
>> But then why didn't HP have the driver on their web site?
>> And, why didn't Windows just *find* the driver in the first place?
>>
> Because that wont sell any new printers.

This is probably the main reason that HP didn't have the driver on their
web site.

I doubt they aimed specifically at the HP LJ 2100m, but probably they have
an "age" policy and a "deal" with Microsoft (I'm guessing, I admit).

Perhaps they made the MARKETING decision to retire older printers, and, by
doing so, they implemented two clauses:

1. They create the drivers (the drivers almost certainly create themselves,
in that HP certainly has automated porting & testing processes).

2. But they only give the drivers to Microsoft.

Notice whom I was angry with in the first place?
It was Microsoft!

Microsoft, it seemed to me, should have *found* the right driver.
That Microsoft (initially) didn't find the right driver, made me mad that
Redmond had learned nothing in the interim from Windows 2.x to Windows 10.

Only later did my ire turn toward HP, because I *expect* HP to deliver the
driver (which is no big deal for HP to create & test as it is created and
tested the day they created and tested all Windows 10 drivers).

So, the *only* entity whose purpose is served by NOT making the driver
readily available - is HP.

Nobody else benefits from HP making the driver hard to find.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:05:35 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> I missed the early part of this thread, so I don't know what printer
> you are talking about. But writing a driver for a new version of
> Windows takes time and money. HP, like all manufacturers, does so only
> if the printer is not very old and they are still selling it in
> sufficient quantities. It does not pay for them to invest the time and
> money to write drivers for products that are obsolescent.

I understand what you said, but I also disagree, from a practical
standpoint.

Sure, it takes time to write a driver - but how much time?

I could argue that it takes almost zero resources to write, manage, and
test and maintain the driver, in and of itself.

That's because it's all lumped in with thousands upon thousands of others.

Consider that HP has the source code to *all* its drivers.
And consider that HP is an expert in Windows 10 anyway.
And consider that HP probably has "porting" programs to port a driver from
Windows 7 to Windows 10 anyway.
And, consider that potentially all HP printers do basically the exact same
thing (they just make them different on purpose - but HP knows what they
artificially made different).
(and consider a few more efficiencies that a printer company has)

Given all the efficiencies that a printer company has, where the only
inefficiencies are those that HP artificially created in the first place, I
would wager that it takes absolutely nothing, in terms of calculable
resources, in and of itself, for them to port/test yet another driver from
Windows 7 (or 8) to Windows 10 for their own equipment.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:16:12 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> Additional instructions in PCL6. Because printers do more and more.

Maybe I'm back in the stone ages, but, for me, a printer does two things:

a. Prints images and text
b. To paper

What *else* do I need a printer to do?

(NOTE: OK. It scans also.)

[Wolf K]

That's like saying human moves two ways: a) walking; and b) running.
Which is easy but not simple.

Prints 2-up, 4-up, book style, two-sided, draft and high quality
printing, etc. And so on. And so forth.

Not to mention number of ink cartridges, draft vs HQ printing, etc. And
so on, And so forth.

Not to mention photo-paper, matte paper, transparencies, textiles,
plastics, etc. And differentw eights of paper and card stock. Plus
different sizes.

Scan is just a variation on Copy. No big deal.

It's no longer as simple as it was in the dot-matrix ASCII-only days.

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-23 09:42, Danny D. wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:05:35 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> >I missed the early part of this thread, so I don't know what printer
>> >you are talking about. But writing a driver for a new version of
>> >Windows takes time and money. HP, like all manufacturers, does so only
>> >if the printer is not very old and they are still selling it in
>> >sufficient quantities. It does not pay for them to invest the time and
>> >money to write drivers for products that are obsolescent.
> I understand what you said, but I also disagree, from a practical
> standpoint.
>
> Sure, it takes time to write a driver - but how much time?

[...]

You have obviously never done any coding.

Have a good life,

[Ken Blake]

A printer does *not* scan. A device that both prints and scan is
usually called an all-in-one printer or a multifunction printer, but
as far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't be called a "printer" at all;
that's like calling a steak and lobster dinner a steak dinner.

And further, as far as I'm concerned, those multifunction devices
should be avoided. If either one fails, you lose both and have to
replace devices; I'd much rather have separate devices so I only have
to replace one if it fails.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:42:51 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:05:35 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> I missed the early part of this thread, so I don't know what printer
>> you are talking about. But writing a driver for a new version of
>> Windows takes time and money. HP, like all manufacturers, does so only
>> if the printer is not very old and they are still selling it in
>> sufficient quantities. It does not pay for them to invest the time and
>> money to write drivers for products that are obsolescent.
>
>I understand what you said, but I also disagree, from a practical
>standpoint.

Do you disagree with my saying why they do what they do, or do you
disagree with whether they *should* do what they do?

Assuming the latter, I agree with you.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 01:11:51 +0200, Sjouke Burry

Yes, an important point, and one that I should have mentioned in the
message I posted.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:50:18 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

>>Because that wont sell any new printers.
>
> Yes, an important point, and one that I should have mentioned in the
> message I posted.

I must agree.
HP is a highly marketing driven company.

They don't really sell printers.
They sell colored water.

And they make a lot of money on that colored water.

Drivers are just a way to make money selling colored water.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:49:14 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

>>I understand what you said, but I also disagree, from a practical
>>standpoint.
>
> Do you disagree with my saying why they do what they do, or do you
> disagree with whether they *should* do what they do?
>
> Assuming the latter, I agree with you.

We are in agreement.
What "is" isn't the same as what "should be".

However, what "is" isn't even what we think what is.

For example, I used to sell software which we had three versions of, which,
for simplicity, I'll call the (a) base model, (b) the select model, and (c)
the deluxe model.

We would guarantee 10% performance improvement in the select model over the
base model. And we'd guarantee 20% improvement in the deluxe model over the
select model.

Guess what?
Ever heard of a "no op" (NOP)?

Yup. All we did was insert as many NOPs as we needed to slow down the
deluxe model so that it was the state model and we inserted a few more nops
in the select model to get to the base model (which sold at half the cost).

The only difference in the software was MARKETING.
Marketing drives EVERYTHING.

What people THINK is always wrong when MARKETING is powerful.
And never forget how powerful HP marketing is.

I suspect (but I do not know this for sure) that HP does the same thing.

They write a great printer/driver and then they break that printer/driver
to make the various "lower" models.

On the outside, they look different; but they're all the same (essentially)
on the inside (except for those NOPs).

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:17:15 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> You have obviously never done any coding.
>
> Have a good life,

You have no idea how much I've done.
I started in the Fortran days *before* 77!
I wrote assembly code for the IBM 370 assembler.
I've used MASM, WASM, DASM, and CHASM on the PC.
I've written entire DOS debug application notes.
I last coded in COBOL and PL/1, so that tells you when I got bored with
coding.
But I've been shell scripting ever since (bash, awk, sed, grep, etc.).

I know coding extremely well.
From the ground up.

And I realize most coders write one-offs, because it's a hellova lot harder
to write good code than it is to hack out bad code.

Anyway, if I worked at HP as a high-level manager, there would be a single
program that all drivers went through which did the writing, testing, and
porting.

It's easy to do.
Very easy.

I would be bored to tears writing it, and I no longer have the skills.
But I have the knowledge to know that a printer driver isn't a big deal for
a printer company.

To imply otherwise is to not understand HP marketing.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:46:19 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> A printer does *not* scan. A device that both prints and scan is
> usually called an all-in-one printer or a multifunction printer, but
> as far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't be called a "printer" at all;
> that's like calling a steak and lobster dinner a steak dinner.
>
> And further, as far as I'm concerned, those multifunction devices
> should be avoided. If either one fails, you lose both and have to
> replace devices; I'd much rather have separate devices so I only have
> to replace one if it fails.

This is a good point that the multifunction devices are actually three
devices in one:
1. Printer
2. Scanner
3. Faxer

I know the printer has a driver.
And I know the scanner has a TWAIN driver.
I presume the fax has its own driver?

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:15:51 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> That's like saying human moves two ways: a) walking; and b) running.
> Which is easy but not simple.

I'm not a printer expert but I would wager that, from the standpoint of the
software driver on Windows, a laser printer today prints the same as a
laser printer yesterday.

> Prints 2-up, 4-up, book style, two-sided, draft and high quality
> printing, etc. And so on. And so forth.

Is that stuff in the printer driver?
Even if it is in the printer driver, I don't think I've ever seen a printer
*not* do those things - and even if they didn't - I'd use a PDF printer
driver to do those things - and then print the PDF using the standard HP
printer driver if it couldn't do those things.

But are those things (one up, two up, book style, etc.) in the printer
driver or somewhere else?

> Not to mention number of ink cartridges, draft vs HQ printing, etc. And
> so on, And so forth.

I don't see how the ink cartridges affect the printer driver for a B&W
laser printer.

Is the draft versus high quality printing part of the printer driver?

Even if it is in the printer driver, I don't think I've ever seen a printer
*not* do those things. And, if they didn't do it, I'd get a third party
printer program that did do it.

I really think that all printers do the same thing.
- They print images and text to paper (high quality or draft quality).
- They scan (and copy)
- Some fax

My point is that one printer does nothing more (essentially) than another
printer - so - a universal printer driver is apropos.

If it doesn't exist - there is only one reason - and that would be that it
doesn't server HP's marketing plan.

> Not to mention photo-paper, matte paper, transparencies, textiles,
> plastics, etc. And differentw eights of paper and card stock. Plus
> different sizes.

All of *that* is in the printer driver?
Are you sure about what you're intimating?
Or am I inferring too much?

I can't believe that the paper is part of the printer driver - but even if
it is, - it would be in every printer driver.

The point is that the printer just prints.
It's not all that fancy that you need different printer drivers.

One universal printer driver would work fine for almost all of us.

> Scan is just a variation on Copy. No big deal.

I didn't think scan/copy was a big deal and, it doesn't seen to be part of
the printer driver, per se, since I had to get a TWAIN driver for one of my
printers.

> It's no longer as simple as it was in the dot-matrix ASCII-only days.

I disagree.
I think there are three kinds of printers (essentially).
Multiply that by color or B&W.

1. dot matrix
2. ink
3. laser

Three universal drivers would do us just fine.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:14:33 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:46:19 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>> A printer does *not* scan. A device that both prints and scan is
>> usually called an all-in-one printer or a multifunction printer, but
>> as far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't be called a "printer" at all;
>> that's like calling a steak and lobster dinner a steak dinner.
>>
>> And further, as far as I'm concerned, those multifunction devices
>> should be avoided. If either one fails, you lose both and have to
>> replace devices; I'd much rather have separate devices so I only have
>> to replace one if it fails.
>
>This is a good point that the multifunction devices are actually three
>devices in one:
>1. Printer
>2. Scanner
>3. Faxer

*Some* of them also fax, but some of them don't. At least that used to
be true. Perhaps today, nobody makes one that doesn't fax anymore.

And by the way, most of the printers in these multifunction devices
are ink-jets. I don't want an ink-jet printer. I greatly prefer a
laser.

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:14:29 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:49:14 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>>>I understand what you said, but I also disagree, from a practical
>>>standpoint.
>>
>> Do you disagree with my saying why they do what they do, or do you
>> disagree with whether they *should* do what they do?
>>
>> Assuming the latter, I agree with you.
>
>We are in agreement.
>What "is" isn't the same as what "should be".
>
>However, what "is" isn't even what we think what is.
>
>For example, I used to sell software which we had three versions of, which,
>for simplicity, I'll call the (a) base model, (b) the select model, and (c)
>the deluxe model.
>
>We would guarantee 10% performance improvement in the select model over the
>base model. And we'd guarantee 20% improvement in the deluxe model over the
>select model.
>
>Guess what?
>Ever heard of a "no op" (NOP)?

Yep! Like you, I used to code. I started in 1962, and coded in many
languages, but I've been retired since 1993.

>Yup. All we did was insert as many NOPs as we needed to slow down the
>deluxe model so that it was the state model and we inserted a few more nops
>in the select model to get to the base model (which sold at half the cost).

Terrible, but believable!

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 17:14:26 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:50:18 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>
>>>Because that wont sell any new printers.
>>
>> Yes, an important point, and one that I should have mentioned in the
>> message I posted.
>
>I must agree.
>HP is a highly marketing driven company.

Aren't they all!

[Unknown]

FredW <fr...@ninmule.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:42:42 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

>dot nz> wrote:
>>FredW <fr...@ninmule.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:30:34 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
>>>dot nz> wrote:
>>>>"s|b" <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:11:51 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Where on earth is the HP laserjet 2100m (model c4172a) printer driver
>>>>>>for
>>>>>> 64bit Windows 10?
>>>>>
>>>>>Why can't you ask this in alt.comp.os.windows-10?
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>It isn't an OS problem, it is a printer driver problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>Who are you trying to fool?
>>>It is a printer driver problem for a specific OS.
>>>Not a problem in Windows 7.
>>>
>

>>I never try to fool people. Printer drivers for specific printers are and
>>have
>>for decades been provided by the printer manufacturer. I you think about it
>>you
>>must come to that realisation - how the hell could any OS provider know how
>>to
>>interface with hundreds of different printers?
>>Tony
>
>

>And what has you rant to do with Windows 7 ?
>READ the original question.
>
>--
>Fred W. (NLD)
I never wrote about Windows 7, you did when you incorrectly accused me of
trying to fool someone and incorrectly assumed that Microsoft wrote printer
specific drivers. I am not the fool here!!!
Tony

[Unknown]

FredW <fr...@ninmule.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 15:36:08 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

>>I never wrote about Windows 7, you did when you incorrectly accused me of
>>trying to fool someone and incorrectly assumed that Microsoft wrote printer
>>specific drivers. I am not the fool here!!!
>
>

>OP multiposted in alt.windows7.general and comp.sys.hardware
>asking for drivers for Windows 10.
>(I told you to READ the original question but clearly you did not.)
>
>YOU are now writing in alt.windows7.general.
>
>What has your ranting to do with Windows 7?
>Or did you never hear about Windows 7 and Windows 10?
>(and that they require different drivers???)
>
>Where did I assume that Microsoft wrote printer specific drivers?
>Go back to school and find some reading skills.
>
>--
>Fred W. (NLD)
You really are a fool aren't you. This post is in the same set of newsgroups
that the OP used. I was simply responding but you got it wrong.
You are not worthy of my time so please go away.
Tony

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-23 13:14, Danny D. wrote:
[...]

> I know coding extremely well.
> From the ground up.

[...]
I apologise for misjudging your expertise.

I guess I'll have to revise my notions.

How about this:
Coding isn't the same as programming which isn't the same as designing
software which isn't the same as designing system architecture. The
peripheral driver problems begin at the level of system architecture
(where system = computer + peripherals + user).

IOW, as implied in previous posts, I agree with your sentiment: There's
really no need for a driver, just a standard communication protocol. Let
the printer figure how to do what you want it to do. But that would
require a smart printer, which nobody could sell for $39.95.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:47:43 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

>>I must agree.
>>HP is a highly marketing driven company.
>
> Aren't they all!

The brand names are (HP, Apple, Microsoft) but many companies are more
performance focused.

For example, I love Ubiquiti for their cheap but powerful radios. Mine
connects to a WiFi access point 10 miles away, which is how I get my
Internet.

And I love Leatherman all-in-one pliers.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:46:38 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

>>Yup. All we did was insert as many NOPs as we needed to slow down the
>>deluxe model so that it was the state model and we inserted a few more nops
>>in the select model to get to the base model (which sold at half the cost).
>
> Terrible, but believable!

The funny thing was the customers were amazed we could guarantee the
performance improvement!

It was almost always right on the percent that we said it would be.

Heh heh heh ... gotta love MARKETING!

HP is a MARKETING MACHINE!

So, nothing HP does makes sense if we don't know how they're gonna profit
from doing it.

They don't sell printers, for example - simply because the money isn't in
hardware. The money is in colored water.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:20:24 -0400, Wolf K wrote:

> I apologise for misjudging your expertise.

Actually, you didn't.
While I have coded, and written assembly language programs so often in the
past that, at one point, I wrote my code in hex (since it all had to be in
hex anyway for the microcontrollers I was playing with in the 80s), I
haven't coded in decades (except to shell script).

> I guess I'll have to revise my notions.
>
> How about this:
> Coding isn't the same as programming which isn't the same as designing
> software which isn't the same as designing system architecture.

I worked as a program manager for a few years at a software company, where
the PHILOSOPHY of the top-level managers CHANGED EVERYTHING!

If the philosophy was to hack out code - everyone hacked out code.
Things are a total mess when that happens.
Coders come and go. They inherit junk and make it worse. They tack on calls
to their code, and IPCs and all sorts of garbage just to make it work and
close the book on the code (and punch the clock, so to speak).

It takes a hugely cross functional team to write good code - and it all
starts with the PHILOSOPHY of the top dog.

If the philosophy is to design a single nugget which is then transformed to
all the printer drivers via a comprehensive well vetted process - then good
code comes out.

> The
> peripheral driver problems begin at the level of system architecture
> (where system = computer + peripherals + user).

Fair enough assessment.

> IOW, as implied in previous posts, I agree with your sentiment: There's
> really no need for a driver, just a standard communication protocol. Let
> the printer figure how to do what you want it to do. But that would
> require a smart printer, which nobody could sell for $39.95.

I am not a printer expert but I agree that the printer is one "black box"
that only needs a bit of data. For example, all it needs is to be able to
interpret PS code, and act on that PS code.

Where's the need for a driver?
All it needs is a computer that can "execute" (actually interpret most
likely, but for our purpose, that's the same thing) the PostScript code.

The printer language doesn't matter so if it's not postscript it doesn't
matter. I just has to be a "language" that describes what the output needs
to look like. Sort of what JCL was in my punch card days on the IBM
mainframe or the WRITE statement was in Fortran IV.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:42:53 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> *Some* of them also fax, but some of them don't. At least that used to
> be true. Perhaps today, nobody makes one that doesn't fax anymore.

But isn't the fax driver a different driver than the printer driver?
Or is it the same driver?

> And by the way, most of the printers in these multifunction devices
> are ink-jets. I don't want an ink-jet printer. I greatly prefer a
> laser.

I gave up on expensive colored water.
I go laser only now.
If the kids need color, we go to a copy shop but that only happens for
school projects.

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-23 13:14, Danny D. wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:15:51 -0400, Wolf K wrote:
>
>> That's like saying human moves two ways: a) walking; and b) running.
>> Which is easy but not simple.
>
> I'm not a printer expert but I would wager that, from the standpoint of the
> software driver on Windows, a laser printer today prints the same as a
> laser printer yesterday.

[etc]

>
> Three universal drivers would do us just fine.

Actually, if we had smart printers, no drivers would be needed at all.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <npi09q$usj$5...@news.mixmin.net>, Danny D.
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> writes:
[]

>I think there are three kinds of printers (essentially).
>Multiply that by color or B&W.
>
>1. dot matrix
>2. ink
>3. laser
>
>Three universal drivers would do us just fine.

Actually, for the above, one would - because the above are all dot
matrix. (I've never liked the term dot matrix being used for what should
be called impact, or ribbon, or similar.)

All three of the above put marks on paper as a matrix of dots; it is
only the _means_ by which they make the dots that varies, and there's no
real reason the _computer_ needs to know which that is. The only kind of
printer that doesn't is the type that has pre-formed character hammers -
teletype, golfball, daisywheel, or (true) line printers (with a chain),
few of which are in any sort of widespread use any more.

Ideally, there would be a common dot matrix interface (and a similar one
for scanners). But there is no financial incentive for such to be
developed, and plenty against it, so it's not going to happen.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of
them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for
science intact. - Carl Sagan (interview w. Psychology Today published '96-1-1)

[Ken Blake]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 07:23:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:


>>1. dot matrix
>>2. ink
>>3. laser
>>
>>Three universal drivers would do us just fine.
>
>Actually, for the above, one would - because the above are all dot
>matrix. (I've never liked the term dot matrix being used for what should
>be called impact, or ribbon, or similar.)
>
>All three of the above put marks on paper as a matrix of dots; it is
>only the _means_ by which they make the dots that varies,

There's another very big difference between them. When you look at the
print produced by a dot-matrix printer, you can see the dots; with the
other two you can not. And to me, that justifies calling it a
dot-matrix.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <jparrbpucrq803uke...@4ax.com>, Ken Blake

An impact printer in text-only draft mode, yes. In high-quality graphics
mode (unless it's a very cheap one), you'd have to look quite carefully
to see them - and you can sometimes see them in at least inkjet output,
at least with magnification.

(Mind you, an impact printer in high-quality graphics mode is SLOW. [And
noisy, if you're one of the type of people who's bothered by that.])

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All's well that ends.

[Ken Blake]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 23:40:48 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <jparrbpucrq803uke...@4ax.com>, Ken Blake
><K...@invalid.news.com> writes:
>>On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 07:23:57 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
>><G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>1. dot matrix
>>>>2. ink
>>>>3. laser
>>>>
>>>>Three universal drivers would do us just fine.
>>>
>>>Actually, for the above, one would - because the above are all dot
>>>matrix. (I've never liked the term dot matrix being used for what should
>>>be called impact, or ribbon, or similar.)
>>>
>>>All three of the above put marks on paper as a matrix of dots; it is
>>>only the _means_ by which they make the dots that varies,
>>
>>
>>There's another very big difference between them. When you look at the
>>print produced by a dot-matrix printer, you can see the dots; with the
>>other two you can not. And to me, that justifies calling it a
>>dot-matrix.
>
>An impact printer in text-only draft mode, yes. In high-quality graphics
>mode (unless it's a very cheap one), you'd have to look quite carefully
>to see them -

It was a lot of years ago, but with my first PC and dot-matrix
printer, I used to use software (I've forgotten its name) that would
emulate postscript and produce high-quality text in a wide variety of
fonts. No dots were visible, at least not without magnification.

But I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the normal text
they produced.

[Bob]

That is an older printer and if you read the HP forums for that printer you
will see plenty of others had problems.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/LaserJet-Printing/Installing-a-HP-LaserJet-2100-for-Windows-10/td-p/5295727

Try installing the Win8.1 x64 version or even Win7.

Bob S.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <lgbsrbdu98oa50lfn...@4ax.com>, Ken Blake

That was using them in their draft mode - which was text only, and is
something I think most modern printers don't even have.

Windows - I think from around 3.1 on, possibly 3.0 - operates in
"graphics mode", so of course can print fonts and so on.

I guess I feel they're unfairly dismissed. They're noisy and slow, and
aren't really capable of colour (yes, I know they did try). But they
_are_ capable of high-quality output. They're also very economical to
run, and also in many cases, very solidly built. (I'm watching a
programme about steam locomotives - the Flying Scotsman in particular -
and can't help seeing some parallels! Except steam locos are
phenomenally _expensive_ to keep going.)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

After a typical day at the BBC you want something to take your mind off work,
although in the end, decent people being eaten alive by heartless monsters
running amok proved no distraction. - Eddie Mair, RT 2015/7/4-10

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-25 16:58, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> That was using them in their draft mode - which was text only, and is
> something I think most modern printers don't even have.

Not text only, but 300dpi on the laser, and "fast" mode on the inkjet,
which saves about 50% of toner or ink.

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 21:58:19 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <lgbsrbdu98oa50lfn...@4ax.com>, Ken Blake
><K...@invalid.news.com> writes:

[snip]

>>It was a lot of years ago, but with my first PC and dot-matrix
>>printer, I used to use software (I've forgotten its name) that would
>>emulate postscript and produce high-quality text in a wide variety of
>>fonts. No dots were visible, at least not without magnification.
>>
>>But I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the normal text
>>they produced.

Which is quite adequate for reports and listings.

>That was using them in their draft mode - which was text only, and is
>something I think most modern printers don't even have.
>
>Windows - I think from around 3.1 on, possibly 3.0 - operates in
>"graphics mode", so of course can print fonts and so on.
>
>I guess I feel they're unfairly dismissed. They're noisy and slow, and
>aren't really capable of colour (yes, I know they did try). But they
>_are_ capable of high-quality output. They're also very economical to
>run, and also in many cases, very solidly built. (I'm watching a

Yes. I have an Okidata Microline 320 Turbo dot-matrix printer).
I got it at about the same time as a Dell laser printer. The Dell
printer died. I replaced it with a Epson Stylus NX215 that quit
printing properly. My Oki keeps on chugging along.

>programme about steam locomotives - the Flying Scotsman in particular -
>and can't help seeing some parallels! Except steam locos are
>phenomenally _expensive_ to keep going.)

And they handle continuous paper. I love fanfold paper for
reports and program listings. One listing of sheets is bad enough,
but when one has to work with two (or more) listings at once, fanfold
is so convenient.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Danny D.]

Thank you Bob for that advice.
The advice here, in the Win7/HP-Printer newsgroups was perfect.
Basically, if you hit the secret button inside of Windows 10 printer setup,
everything works fine.

Nothing else worked - but that secret printer update button works so well
that I don't think, for Windows 10 anyway, any other solution is needed.

One thing I forgot to ask the team about was how to *archive* that printer
driver.

Is there an easy way to archive the printer driver that was installed so
that I have the Windows 10 x64 printer driver if Windows ever does stop
supplying it in the temporary update?

[wasbit]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nphjsm$2k3$1...@news.mixmin.net...
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:15:52 -0500, Tony wrote:
>
>> The following drivers are available on Win10 64 bit
>> CL5, PCL6 and PS for the LJ2100.
>> Microsoft are not and never have been responsible for manufacturer
>> specific
>> printer drivers.
>> Go to add new printer
>> Click the printer I want isn't listed
>> Click add a local printer or network printer with manual settings
>> Select use existing or create new port as required
>> Click on Windows Update and wait (it will take a few minutes0.
>> Look under HP and voila!
>> The above is from memory so the words may be different.
>> Tony
>
> Thank you for that summary.
> That process is exactly what worked.
> All other attempts failed, to wit:
>
> 1. It's bad enough that Windows 10, using the *normal* process for
> installing a printer (which we've all used for decades on Windows), failed
> miserably to install the printer driver for one of the most common
> printers
> on the planet.
>
> 2. It's even worse that HP support failed just as miserably, using the
> normal process (which we've all used for decades with HP printers) for
> downloading a printer driver to a basic and very common laserjet printer.
>
> 3. The good news is that most likely HP drivers write themselves, in so
> much as a printer driver is no big deal in terms of porting (and testing &
> supplying & maintaining) from Windows 7 to Windows 10 - simply because HP
> almost certainly has automated processes for such trivially easy ports
> such
> as these are.
>
> 4. Therefore, the better news is that HP already (secretly, as it were)
> supplied the HP LaserJet 2100m printer driver to Microsoft, such that the
> "secret temporary" update process worked to install the correct printer
> driver.
>
> In the end, who knew that there was a secret temporary "Windows 10 update"
> that is entirely separate and outside the "regular" Windows 10 update?
>
> I certainly did not know this temporary update existed.
> But thanks to you (plural) on the Usenet, I do now.
>
> Thanks!

HP Laserjet 2100/2100M/2100TN User Guide (184 pages)
-
http://h20565.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?sp4ts.oid=25469&docLocale=en_US&docId=emr_na-bpl06466
- http://tinyurl.com/hhmwg3w

The HP LaserJet 2100 and the 2100 M printers include two interface ports: an
IEEE-1284 parallel and a LocalTalk port.
The HP LaserJet 2100 TN printer also includes an HP JetDirect 600 N print
server card that includes a 10Base-T (RJ-45) port.

Drivers - available for practically every OS including Windows 10 32/64bit

-
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/swd/public/readIndex?sp4ts.oid=59533&lang=en&cc=us
- http://tinyurl.com/zeog5bj

Regards
wasbit

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 10:13:31 +0100, wasbit wrote:

> HP Laserjet 2100/2100M/2100TN User Guide (184 pages)
> -
> http://h20565.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?sp4ts.oid=25469&docLocale=en_US&docId=emr_na-bpl06466
> - http://tinyurl.com/hhmwg3w
>
> The HP LaserJet 2100 and the 2100 M printers include two interface ports: an
> IEEE-1284 parallel and a LocalTalk port.
> The HP LaserJet 2100 TN printer also includes an HP JetDirect 600 N print
> server card that includes a 10Base-T (RJ-45) port.

Thanks for that document reference.

For some reason, I had thought I had the HP LaserJet 2011m but it's the TN
model (aka HP LJ 2100TN).

> Drivers - available for practically every OS including Windows 10 32/64bit

> http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/swd/public/readIndex?sp4ts.oid=59533&lang=en&cc=us
> - http://tinyurl.com/zeog5bj

The problem with that "drivers" page is that it's a propaganda lie from HP
Marketing. If you actually try to download the Windows 10 64-bit driver,
you get the PARK zip package, which has been explained to me is a
roll-your-own-driver for IT professionals.

I'm not about to roll my own HP driver.

That page *implies* the driver exists, but nobody on earth can find it on
the HP web site.

The *only* place on the planet the driver seems to exist is on the Windows
special temporary printer-only update mechanism.

[Joe Morris]

[lots of postings from lots of people about drivers for HP 2100 printers]

I don't have an HP 2100 so I can't say if the files would help - but have
you tried going to

https://catalog.update.microsoft.com

and searching for "2100 windows 7 hewlett printers" (without the quotes)?
This returns a number of printers for LaserJet 2100 series printers (both
PCL and PS), with the drivers described as compatible with "Windows 7,
Windows 8, Windows 8.1, and later".

The site is not an installer; you download the files (and so can archive
them for future use).

Joe

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 08:39:29 -0400, Joe Morris wrote:

> I don't have an HP 2100 so I can't say if the files would help - but have
> you tried going to
>
> https://catalog.update.microsoft.com
>
> and searching for "2100 windows 7 hewlett printers" (without the quotes)?
> This returns a number of printers for LaserJet 2100 series printers (both
> PCL and PS), with the drivers described as compatible with "Windows 7,
> Windows 8, Windows 8.1, and later".
>
> The site is not an installer; you download the files (and so can archive
> them for future use).

That is a *strange* site indeed!

The whole point of web browsers were to make any content available, right?

What part about being able to display on any computer did Microsoft NOT
understand?

I use Firefox.
Here is the utterly crazy stuff that happens when I go to that site.

1. I point Firefox to: https://catalog.update.microsoft.com
2. It says I need a certificate.
3. After I install the certificate, it takes me to here:
https://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/Thanks.aspx?id=140
4. There it tells me it only works with IE
(I haven't used IE in probably a decade!)

Specifically, it says:
Thank you for visiting the Microsoft Update Catalog
To use this Web site's full functionality, you must be running Microsoft
Internet Explorer 6.0 or later.
To upgrade to the latest version of the browser, go to the Internet
Explorer Downloads Website.
If you prefer to use a different Web browser, you can get updates from the
Microsoft Download Center.

5. My only viable option is to go to the Microsoft Download Center.
6. That takes me to here:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download

There is a Hardware Drivers button, so I click that.

7. Clicking Hardware Drivers takes me here:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/driver.aspx

There are far too many options to scroll through so I run a search for:

2100 windows 7 hewlett printers

8. Unfortunately, that search only locates:

Hewlett Packard Connects With The MSN Video Audience

HP Connects With MSN Video Audience
Free
11/21/2007
Update for Windows 7 (KB2028551)

This update resolves instances where certain elements are clipped when
printing an XPS containing visual brushes with transforms to a GDI-based
printer.
Free
10/27/2010
Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB2028551)

This update resolves instances where certain elements are clipped when
printing an XPS containing visual brushes with transforms to a GDI-based
printer.
Free
11/10/2010
Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor

Download and run the Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor to see if your PC is ready
for Windows 7. It scans your hardware, devices, and installed programs for
known ...
Free
4/20/2010
PowerPoint Viewer

Microsoft PowerPoint Viewer lets you view full-featured presentations
created in PowerPoint 97 and later versions.
Free
10/25/2011

[Paul]

Danny D. wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 08:39:29 -0400, Joe Morris wrote:

>>

>> https://catalog.update.microsoft.com

>>

>
> That is a *strange* site indeed!
>
> The whole point of web browsers were to make any content available, right?
>
> What part about being able to display on any computer did Microsoft NOT
> understand?

The catalog.update.microsoft.com site uses an ActiveX plugin.

The ActiveX plugin runs the "Shopping Cart" interface
provided on the catalog server.

It allows you to queue up a bunch of downloads, like
search for 30 different items, and "add them to your cart".

Then, once you start the download, you can go off and
make dinner while it downloads.

The list of downloads could be stored in a cookie, or
a cookie could be used to sync a server-side grocery
list.

The reason for the ActiveX plugin, is to give
the user that capability. When asked to install the
ActiveX plugin, give it permission.

Microsoft "promises" to modify the Catalog site design,
but given how Microsoft is also going to fuck over
Win7 and Win8 updates anyway, I just assume they're
not doing anything at the moment.

If you use Internet Explorer, even Internet Explorer 6,
you will be able to use catalog.update.microsoft.com .

Have fun,
Paul

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 15:44:47 -0400, Paul wrote:

> The catalog.update.microsoft.com site uses an ActiveX plugin.
>
> The ActiveX plugin runs the "Shopping Cart" interface
> provided on the catalog server.
>
> It allows you to queue up a bunch of downloads, like
> search for 30 different items, and "add them to your cart".
>
> Then, once you start the download, you can go off and
> make dinner while it downloads.
>
> The list of downloads could be stored in a cookie, or
> a cookie could be used to sync a server-side grocery
> list.
>
> The reason for the ActiveX plugin, is to give
> the user that capability. When asked to install the
> ActiveX plugin, give it permission.

Thank you for explaining why that site doesn't work with a major browser.
I can't stand non-standard web sites but I'm currently stuck on WinXP for
the archive of the printer driver because that's where all my archives are
and the win 10 machine is at work.

> Microsoft "promises" to modify the Catalog site design,
> but given how Microsoft is also going to fuck over
> Win7 and Win8 updates anyway, I just assume they're
> not doing anything at the moment.

I am on WInXP for my archives (that's where I have kept my software
archives for years).

> If you use Internet Explorer, even Internet Explorer 6,
> you will be able to use catalog.update.microsoft.com .

I located the never-used IE shortcut on WinXP and clicked on it and it said
"Welcome to IE 8": http://i.cubeupload.com/rGjtq0.gif

Then I went to https://catalog.update.microsoft.com with IE8.

Ooooh. Pretty baby blue color! It says it wants to install a "catalog".
http://i.cubeupload.com/wIUSmP.gif

Wow. Whatever it installed sure does consume resources!
http://i.cubeupload.com/BvJgYN.gif

My CPU went to 100% in a second when the catalog started!
http://i.cubeupload.com/Anxnqf.gif

But a search does seem to find a huge amount of related "stuff".
http://i.cubeupload.com/MJL47r.gif

But most of the "stuff" seemed to be the same file.
http://i.cubeupload.com/F4VMsK.gif

Here's the description for just one of the stuffs:
a. Microsoft driver update for HP LaserJet 2100 Series PCL 5
b. Windows 7,Windows 8,Windows 8.1 and later drivers,Windows Server 2008
R2,Windows Server 2012,Windows Server 2012 R2 and later drivers
c. Drivers (Printers)
d. 6/21/2006
e. 6.1.7233.0
f. 11.6 MB 12129488

The fact that a 10KB driver is "11.6MB" is already pretty suspicious.
1. But I hit the "Add" button.
2. And then the "catalog" button.
3. And then the "download" button.
4. And then the "browse" button.
5. And then the "continue" button.
6. And then the "done" button. (Can they make this more steps?)
http://i.cubeupload.com/ugFCp9.gif

Is "this" the archive of the HP LJ 2100 TN printer driver that I want?
AMD64-all-4188_bacd1413e93b4a6362d9a2ca653c869f1c02f6f7.cab 11,846KB

[Paul]

Danny D. wrote:

>
> Is "this" the archive of the HP LJ 2100 TN printer driver that I want?
> AMD64-all-4188_bacd1413e93b4a6362d9a2ca653c869f1c02f6f7.cab 11,846KB

If you open the archive with 7ZIP, one of the
files at the top level is

prnhp001.inf

And that is a text file. INF files are
used by installers.

There is a section in there, which lists the
hardware supported. For PNP subsystem usage.

7ZIP can be obtained here. It's a tool which
will open a variety of archive types. GZIP,
7Z, RAR, VHD files, raw disk img files. Opening
some file types causes unfortunate usage of
%temp%, while some of the other types can be
processed quite quickly. This is one of the
first programs I install on a fresh OS install.

http://7-zip.org/

7ZIP will not open InstallShield cabs but it
will open the Microsoft cab in your example.
There is a whole sub-species of "packers"
which cannot be opened by 7ZIP as well.
For example, I wouldn't expect a UPX compressed
EXE to open in 7ZIP as an archive.

Paul

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 19:01:29 -0400, Paul wrote:

> If you open the archive with 7ZIP, one of the
> files at the top level is
>
> prnhp001.inf
>
> And that is a text file. INF files are
> used by installers.

Ah, this is *perfect*.
Thank you for your patience & understanding.

I installed IZArc which opened the CAB file.
Inside I saw
- Amd64 (directory)
- component.man
- prnhp001.cat
- prnhp001.Inf

So now that I have the CAB file, I guess I have the archived printer driver
for Windows 10 should Microsoft stop including the printer driver for the
HP LJ 2100TN in the future!

This is wonderful!
We should archive *all* our printer drivers now, just in case.

Thanks!

[Paul]

Remember, it's just *a* driver. I don't
have your printer. I haven't tested it.

And you'll need to do something like this,
for a system that has dism. If you get a CAB
from the Catalog server, you can try this to
install it. This should work on Win10, while
the dism on Win7 lacks some features. (And I
don't have a chart to compare them.)

dism /online /Add-Package /Package-Name:F:\some.cab

Good Guy actually provided an archiving method
that uses a verb in Powershell. I tried that and
it did dump some INF based folders on the output
folder selected. So that does work. But only you
can test that one, to see if it produces the
same set of files as are contained in the
above CAB file.

For example:

1) Start an Administrator Command Prompt window.
2) Run "powershell" in it.
3) Once Powershell starts, use

export-windowsdriver -online -destination F:\temp

Close the window when done. My folder had 400MB of stuff
or so, of which most of that was the ATI video card driver.
The rest of the other drivers on my system made a
quite small contribution to the size of F:\temp .

Since some of those are just folders with an INF inside,
you can use Device Manager, Update Driver, and point to
such a folder and perhaps re-install that way.

I didn't save my F:\temp , because it was just a test.
And all the drivers are available via other means.
If I had a printer, and had installed a printer driver,
I might have been more interested in keeping it.

Paul

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-27 13:14, Danny D. wrote:
[...]

> The whole point of web browsers were to make any content available, right?

[...]

Yes, but only if it was uploaded. Despite people's goggle-eyed amazement
at what they can find on the web, most information is not and never will
be available.

Why?

Because nobody has or will upload it.

Have a good day,

[Wolf K]

On 2016-08-27 16:26, Danny D. wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 15:44:47 -0400, Paul wrote:
>
>> >The catalog.update.microsoft.com site uses an ActiveX plugin.
>> >
>> >The ActiveX plugin runs the "Shopping Cart" interface
>> >provided on the catalog server.
>> >
>> >It allows you to queue up a bunch of downloads, like
>> >search for 30 different items, and "add them to your cart".
>> >
>> >Then, once you start the download, you can go off and
>> >make dinner while it downloads.
>> >
>> >The list of downloads could be stored in a cookie, or
>> >a cookie could be used to sync a server-side grocery
>> >list.
>> >
>> >The reason for the ActiveX plugin, is to give
>> >the user that capability. When asked to install the
>> >ActiveX plugin, give it permission.
> > Thank you for explaining why that site doesn't work with a major browser.

> I can't stand non-standard web sites [...]

It doesn't work with any browser, major, minor, or pipsqueak, without
the plug-in.

Your reaction is, um, peculiar. It's like you being surprised that you
need a tow-package to haul your boat with your car.

[jorgemati...@gmail.com]

FUNCIONO INSTALANDO EL DRIVER PARA WINDOWS 7 64 BITS, DESDE LA PAGINA DE HP.

[ken0w...@gmail.com]

INTERESTING! I recently had the same problem until I connected my Printer to a 3.0, 4 port hub plugged directly into my 64-bit laptop and now it is working just perfectly. Imagine that!!! Give it a try!

> Windows *still* (after all these years!) can't even find a networked
> printer?
>
> And, Windows still, after all these years, can't install a common HP
> driver?
>
> Did Redmond get worse and worse and worse (and worse?) over time?
>
> It's actually worse than what I'm saying above, as I decide to fall back on
> the ancient method of downloading a 64-bit Windows 10 printer driver from
> HP for the HP 2100m (model C4172A).
>
> What is with HP?
> What happened to a simple printer driver?
>
> What is this garbage?
> There *only* download available on HP support for the HP 2100m is some kind
> of megalithic (iTunes like) huge (22MB) directory of "administrator" tools.
>
> Huh?
> I just want the stinkin' 10KB HP 2100m printer driver for heaven's sake!
>
> 22.1 Megabytes later, I have a horrible directory filled with utter
> garbage, titled "park-v1.8.0" (HP Printer Administrator Rexource Kit,
> 1.9.0, 2 Feb 2016).
>
> What the heck?
> It's filled with garbage but no Win10 64-bit printer driver!
>
> Which one of these directories contains the printer driver?
> - active directory administrator template
> add print model to comments
> AutoUpgradeUPD
> driver configuration utility
> hpprlog
> managed print administrator
> Migrate-Server-Tools
> prncon
> RemovePlugPlayDrivers
> updatenow
>
> C'mon. I just want the tiny 10KB driver.
> Where is it?

[ken0w...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 4:11:51 PM UTC-6, Danny D. wrote:
> Where on earth is the HP laserjet 2100m (model c4172a) printer driver for
> 64bit Windows 10?
>
> Am on my home network which has an HP LaserJet 2100m printer hooked to the
> home broadband router using an Ethernet cable.
>
> The home broadband router is wireless.
> The windows7 computer has *no problem* printing to the HP2100m.
> But Windows 10 can't even *find* the printer.
> No matter what I do in Start -> Settings -> Devices -> Add a printer
>
> What?

Try plugging it into a 3.o hub connected directly to your computer. It works perfectly with my 64-bit win on my laptop!!

[dan...@gmail.com]

I've solved this today for myself. I own HP 2100M with a network card, and I was able to add it to Windows 10 64 bit today.

Steps:
- Download Windows 8.1 drivers for HP2100m from HP web site (64 or 32bit depending on your Windows 10 version)
- In Windows 10 go to "Printers and Scanners"
- Click on +Add printer or scanner
- Click on The printer I want is not listed
- New window opens up, in there click on My printer is a little older. Help me find it., Go next
- It found mine automatically on the network. You can also skip this and manually add the IP for your printer. Go next
- In this step Windows update did not do anything for me. I've clicked on Have disk. Using Browse I've pointed where drivers for Win 8.1 are (and I had to unpack the files from .exe using WinRar).
- Select HP Universal Printing PCL 5 driver. Go next.
- Complete the setup

Print test page - works!

Hope this helps someone as I was googling for ages for a solution. Thanks!
-Dani