DEC SUES INTEL SUES DEC soap opera
jfmezei
FYI.
Digital announced it would return PART of the documents that INTEL
had requested it return shortly after Digital sued Intel over its
alleged use of ALPHA technologies.
The documents Digital has agreed to return concern INtel's MERCED
proposed chip, not the Pentium ones which Digital says every
manufacturer needs.
I find it funny that Digital would gain access to Merced documents to
begin with.
The article in Reuters reiterates the fact that Digital sells far more
Intel pcs that its own Alpha machines.
Todd C. Campbell
jfmezei <"jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]> wrote:
>FYI.
>
>The article in Reuters reiterates the fact that Digital sells far more
>Intel pcs that its own Alpha machines.
I dunno, they are selling that Bill guy's OS instead of OpenVMS :(
I recently attended a trade show in Chicago, of course they were
pushing NT as the save/end-all solution kinda made me sick.
Terry Shannon
Todd C. Campbell wrote:
>
> jfmezei <"jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]> wrote:
>
> >FYI.
> >
>
> >The article in Reuters reiterates the fact that Digital sells far more
> >Intel pcs that its own Alpha machines.
Yup. On a numerical basis, perhaps 7-8x as many Intel boxes as Alpha
boxes.
On a revenue basis, product revenue from Alpha in 3FQ97 was 32 percent
while product revenue from Intel was 28 percent.
>
> I dunno, they are selling that Bill guy's OS instead of OpenVMS :(
Well, that Bill guy's OS **used** to be OpenVMS (or at least the
successor thereto).
> I recently attended a trade show in Chicago, of course they were
> pushing NT as the save/end-all solution kinda made me sick.
That is indeed pushing it. Scalability Day bruhaha aside, WNT doesn't
scale like OpenVMS. It doesn't cluster like VMS. It is not bulletproof
like OpenVMS. It offers far fewer default management capabilities than
does VMS.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled soap opera...
Terry Shannon
Publisher, Shannon Knows DEC
the count
Terry Shannon wrote:
> That is indeed pushing it. Scalability Day bruhaha aside, WNT doesn't
> scale like OpenVMS. It doesn't cluster like VMS. It is not bulletproof
> like OpenVMS. It offers far fewer default management capabilities than
> does VMS.
I am thinking of buying an Alpha workstation, but am not familiar with
VMS. While I know I can get it with UNIX or NT on it instead
(I would sooner go with UNIX than NT :) I would be curious to know
what exactly VMS is like. How does "feel", compared to, say, UNIX?
How does it rate overall vs. UNIX? What kind of learning curve is
VMS for a UNIX person?
Inquiring minds want to know :)
Mark E. Levy
the count wrote:
> I am thinking of buying an Alpha workstation, but am not familiar with
> VMS. While I know I can get it with UNIX or NT on it instead
> (I would sooner go with UNIX than NT :) I would be curious to know
> what exactly VMS is like. How does "feel", compared to, say, UNIX?
> How does it rate overall vs. UNIX? What kind of learning curve is
> VMS for a UNIX person?
> Inquiring minds want to know :)
The "feel" of VMS is similiar to Unix. Command verbs are usually
english words, unlike the Unix gibberish.
The learning curve is, IMO, shorter than that for Unix, mostly due to
the fact that the VMS documents are better (IMO). You can type "HELP"
at the command interpreter (which is called DCL) prompt and get a list
of commands and detail on what each does.
Take a look at WWW.OPENVMS.DIGITAL.COM for more info, including a number
of the manuals that have been converted to HTML.
--
Mark Levy, Computer Consultant
OpenVMS, MS-Windows, MAC/OS, Networks
System Management Associates, Inc.
LEV...@ACM.ORG
Terry Shannon
the count wrote:
>
> Terry Shannon wrote:
> > That is indeed pushing it. Scalability Day bruhaha aside, WNT doesn't
> > scale like OpenVMS. It doesn't cluster like VMS. It is not bulletproof
> > like OpenVMS. It offers far fewer default management capabilities than
> > does VMS.
>
> VMS.
I would wait until the av-series Alpha Personal Workstation is announced
rather than go with an existing AlphaStation. Much better
price/performance on the PWs.
While I know I can get it with UNIX or NT on it instead
> (I would sooner go with UNIX than NT :) I would be curious to know
> what exactly VMS is like.
You will find that it's more expensive to purchase than WNT, modestly
more expensive that DUNIX.
How does "feel", compared to, say, UNIX?
At the risk of starting an OS debate, seems to me that the VMS command
language is more intuitive.
I prefer the VMS management environment, although the DUNIX Sysman
interface isn't bad at all.
> How does it rate overall vs. UNIX?
Depends on personal preferences.
What kind of learning curve is
> VMS for a UNIX person?
Should be easier than the other way around.
> Inquiring minds want to know :)
Terry Shannon
http://www.hrgresearch.com
the count
Terry Shannon wrote:
> the count wrote:
> > I am thinking of buying an Alpha workstation, but am not familiar
> > with VMS.
>
> I would wait until the av-series Alpha Personal Workstation is
> announced rather than go with an existing AlphaStation. Much better
> price/performance on the PWs.
Any idea how long til the av series?
I have a friend who thinks I should be able to get a 433Mhz Alpha PRO
for ~$4K. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any reference to the
Alpha PRO on Digital's homepage... :O
But if I can, I'll take that right now :)
Sigstroker
>I am thinking of buying an Alpha workstation, but am not familiar with
>(I would sooner go with UNIX than NT :) I would be curious to know
>what exactly VMS is like.
Real expensive.
>How does "feel", compared to, say, UNIX?
>How does it rate overall vs. UNIX? What kind of learning curve is
>VMS for a UNIX person?
>Inquiring minds want to know :)
Most Unix people I know gag on VMS. It makes too much logical sense. :-)
For the truly desperate, DEC has a C shell for VMS.
Sigstroker
>Any idea how long til the av series?
>I have a friend who thinks I should be able to get a 433Mhz Alpha PRO
>for ~$4K. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any reference to the
>Alpha PRO on Digital's homepage... :O
>
>But if I can, I'll take that right now :)
If you want a pc, check www.enorex.com. 433 mhz for 2999.
Mark E. Levy
Sigstroker wrote:
>
> >I am thinking of buying an Alpha workstation, but am not familiar with
> >VMS. While I know I can get it with UNIX or NT on it instead
> >(I would sooner go with UNIX than NT :) I would be curious to know
> >what exactly VMS is like.
>
> Real expensive.
Not true. Only slightly more expensive than DUNIX.
> >How does "feel", compared to, say, UNIX?
> >How does it rate overall vs. UNIX? What kind of learning curve is
> >VMS for a UNIX person?
> >Inquiring minds want to know :)
>
> Most Unix people I know gag on VMS. It makes too much logical sense. :-)
And most VMS people I know gag on Unix. The command verbs make
absolutely no sense :-)
> For the truly desperate, DEC has a C shell for VMS.
gag!
the count
Sigstroker wrote:
> >Any idea how long til the av series?
> >I have a friend who thinks I should be able to get a 433Mhz Alpha PRO
> >for ~$4K. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any reference to the
> >Alpha PRO on Digital's homepage... :O
> If you want a pc, check www.enorex.com. 433 mhz for 2999.
When you add in various upgrades, tax (wouldn't you know it, I'm in
NJ...), shipping, etc., it goes up to $4300 ;)
Still, it is tempting...
But I still didn't see an Alpha PRO there.
Anybody even heard of an Alpha PRO?
Or am I on a wild goose chase? :O
the count
Mark E. Levy wrote:
> Sigstroker wrote:
> > >I am thinking of buying an Alpha workstation, but am not familiar with
> > >VMS. While I know I can get it with UNIX or NT on it instead
> > >(I would sooner go with UNIX than NT :) I would be curious to know
> > >what exactly VMS is like.
> >
> > Real expensive.
> Not true. Only slightly more expensive than DUNIX.
On the DEC webpage, DUNIX is $1000 more expensive than NT, and VMS is
$1000 more expensive than DUNIX!
I'm not convinced that those prices are accurate reflections of the
relative power of the OS's...
> > >How does "feel", compared to, say, UNIX?
> > >How does it rate overall vs. UNIX? What kind of learning curve is
> > >VMS for a UNIX person?
> > >Inquiring minds want to know :)
> >
> > Most Unix people I know gag on VMS. It makes too much logical sense. :-)
> And most VMS people I know gag on Unix. The command verbs make
> absolutely no sense :-)
UNIX is very user friendly, it's just picky about who it's friends
with :-)
Bill Pechter
In article <33DA65...@world.std.com>,
Terry Shannon <sha...@world.std.com> wrote:
>
>That is indeed pushing it. Scalability Day bruhaha aside, WNT doesn't
>scale like OpenVMS. It doesn't cluster like VMS. It is not bulletproof
>like OpenVMS. It offers far fewer default management capabilities than
>does VMS.
>
>
>
>Terry Shannon
>Publisher, Shannon Knows DEC
VMS was probably the best minicomputer OS. I'm not a VMS bigot -- I'm
a Unix SysAdmin and instructor.
Now that Steve Jobs is back -- can Ken Olson be far behind?
(Boy I'd like to see him in there a lot more than Palmer. He was a legend
to us who worked there. He'd be great for the dead morale. He understood
computers better than Palmer.)
Bill Pechter
ex-DEC Field Service
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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pec...@lakewood.com | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware.
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Stephen Hoff Hoffman
In article <33DC9C...@mathematica-mpr.com>, the count <eglam...@mathematica-mpr.com> writes:
..
:I am thinking of buying an Alpha workstation, but am not familiar with
:VMS. While I know I can get it with UNIX or NT on it instead
:(I would sooner go with UNIX than NT :) I would be curious to know
:what exactly VMS is like...
Please take a look at the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ):
ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/dec-faq/vms
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/dec-faq/vms
Please visit the OpenVMS web site:
http://www.openvms.digital.com/
Please see the on-line documentation, and particularly the OpenVMS
User's Guide:
http://www.openvms.digital.com:81/
An equivilent OpenVMS Programming Concepts manual will be of interest
to folks starting to program on OpenVMS. Seperate manuals describing
various features of the programming environment are also available.
(I do not believe the programming concepts manual is at the website.)
And -- most importantly -- pPlease follow the plea in the FAQ in the
`VMS4. Which is better - OpenVMS or UNIX?" section, and avoid starting
yet another "<this OS> vs <that OS>" operating system discussion.
For a book comparing OpenVMS and UNIX, please visit the Digital Press
section of the Butterworth-Heinemann web site:
-------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------
Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering h*ff...@xdelta.enet.dec.c*m
headers and addresses munged to avoid automated spammers: junk-e-mail
Sigstroker
>> >How does it rate overall vs. UNIX? What kind of learning curve is
>> >VMS for a UNIX person?
>> >Inquiring minds want to know :)
>>
>> Most Unix people I know gag on VMS. It makes too much logical sense.
:-)
>
>And most VMS people I know gag on Unix. The command verbs make
>absolutely no sense :-)
No, we spit on Unix! (Who would name an operating system after a bunch of
guys without genitals?)