What color is the Commodore 64? (No, seriously)

[Bo Zimmerman]

Hello all,

Please please forgive a stupid question, but I've been retr0brighting some of my commies, and it's led me to doubt my sanity of late. I need some third-party confirmation.

All of my 1541s and "other" C64s are a sort-of brownish grey, as seen in this picture:
http://www.miguelmoreno.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/commodore-c64-e1372084337258.jpg

However, I have one C64 that is a deeper brown color, identical to this picture:
http://uknet.com/gallery2/d/16359-2/158_commodore64.jpg

Is the later one an example of sun-burn, or is it simply an alternative color? It's usually easy to spot sun-browning, since it tends to be non-uniform coloring around the entire unit. However, my c64 is much like the one shown in the second picture -- completely uniformly deep brown all the way around.

Thanks for your patience with my sanity check,
Bo Zimmerman

[SD!]

Bo Zimmerman <edwinfzi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> However, I have one C64 that is a deeper brown color, identical to this picture:
> http://uknet.com/gallery2/d/16359-2/158_commodore64.jpg
>
> Is the later one an example of sun-burn, or is it simply an alternative
> color? It's usually easy to spot sun-browning, since it tends to be
> non-uniform coloring around the entire unit. However, my c64 is much
> like the one shown in the second picture -- completely uniformly deep
> brown all the way around.

But.. the one on the second picture is seems quite far from being uniformly
brown. To me the second picture looks very much like a strongly "yellowed"
one.
--
SD!

[Bo Zimmerman]

OK -- I'm not doubting what you say, you could be 100% correct, but that leaves me with this question: why would it be just as yellowed on the underside?

- Bo

[Clocky]

There are two distinct shades of breadbox that I know of. The greyish
one and the brownish one.

And yes, looking inside the case (where yellowing isn't a factor due to
sunlight at all) confirms that there is a distinct difference in the
colour of the plastic.

I thought it was just accepted fact that there are different colour
breadboxes and thought nothing of it until you raised the question here.

[dott.Piergiorgio]

Il 09/03/2014 07:20, Clocky ha scritto:

> There are two distinct shades of breadbox that I know of. The greyish
> one and the brownish one.
>
> And yes, looking inside the case (where yellowing isn't a factor due to
> sunlight at all) confirms that there is a distinct difference in the
> colour of the plastic.
>
> I thought it was just accepted fact that there are different colour
> breadboxes and thought nothing of it until you raised the question here.

aside the ancient saying "de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum",
I think that in the *very* long and uniquely large production run is
normal that some differences creeps in the (few) raw or non-CBM/MOS parts

Plastic, raw or molded, is part of Commodore's vaunted vertical
production, or was third-party ?

Ps. for Bo: Thanks for your keeping the ex-finnish FTP archive ! :)

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[Clocky]

On 9/03/2014 5:20 PM, dott.Piergiorgio wrote:
> Il 09/03/2014 07:20, Clocky ha scritto:
>
>> There are two distinct shades of breadbox that I know of. The greyish
>> one and the brownish one.
>>
>> And yes, looking inside the case (where yellowing isn't a factor due to
>> sunlight at all) confirms that there is a distinct difference in the
>> colour of the plastic.
>>
>> I thought it was just accepted fact that there are different colour
>> breadboxes and thought nothing of it until you raised the question here.
>
> aside the ancient saying "de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum",
> I think that in the *very* long and uniquely large production run is
> normal that some differences creeps in the (few) raw or non-CBM/MOS parts
>
> Plastic, raw or molded, is part of Commodore's vaunted vertical
> production, or was third-party ?

Dunno, but I do know that there isn't just a few that are coloured
differently as I've probably seen an equal number of both in my time.

Could be un-intentional or it could just be down to where and when they
were produced.

[winston...@yahoo.com]

That last one really looks to me like it was used by someone who was a heavy smoker... probably drank a bit too much coffee too!

My mother was a heavy smoker, and the PC I gave her changed color over the years... and like your 2nd link, it wasn't quite uniform.

[SD!]

On 2014-03-09 04:04:30 +0000, Bo Zimmerman said:

>>> However, I have one C64 that is a deeper brown color, identical to this
>>> picture:
>>> http://uknet.com/gallery2/d/16359-2/158_commodore64.jpg
>>> Is the later one an example of sun-burn, or is it simply an alternative
>>> color? It's usually easy to spot sun-browning, since it tends to be
>>> non-uniform coloring around the entire unit. However, my c64 is much
>>> like the one shown in the second picture -- completely uniformly deep
>>> brown all the way around.
>>
>> But.. the one on the second picture is seems quite far from being uniformly
>> brown. To me the second picture looks very much like a strongly "yellowed"
>> one.
>> --
>> SD!
>
> OK -- I'm not doubting what you say, you could be 100% correct, but
> that leaves me with this question: why would it be just as yellowed on
> the underside?

The main question to me is: does yours look like on the picture or does
it all look like the one on the picture in some places. Underside may
not yet be a good idicator. Have a look under the PCB.

If it is all uniformly the same colour then probably it's been a
different material used. I am quite sure that there was a considerable
variance in the material used for the casings over the time (many
years, remember? :-) and among all places they were produced. I also
believe that some might have been more prone to yellowing than the
other. I used my first machine for years in a well-lit room and it
never got yellowed as much as some other used mostly in much darker
rooms. So yes, there were differences in the stuff used for injecting.
Some were more grey, some more brown but I've never seen one that would
be originally as yellow-brown as the one on the second picture of yours.

--
SD!

[libertar...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 4:20:11 AM UTC-5, dott.Piergiorgio wrote:
>
>
> Ps. for Bo: Thanks for your keeping the ex-finnish FTP archive ! :)
>
>
>
> Best regards from Italy,
>
> dott. Piergiorgio.

Are you kidding? I consider it my most important responsibility.

- Bo

[dott.Piergiorgio]

I'm not kidding.... I always keep track of my list of due thanks...

(perhaps somewhat is lost in translation ?)

[Hg]

Does retrobright produce identical (or imperceptible) colour accuracy?
Reason why I'm asking is the photos of restored cases i've seen
look good though retro seems to produce slightly off colour results.
If that's the case then maybe 3D printing a new case would be the way
to go for perfect colour replication.


--
T

[Clocky]

How would you go getting the exact right colour plastic for printing
though?

[Hg]

O.K. I must admit I've overestimated the state of 3D printing at this
point in time. This printer seems to be the cutting edge in tech right
now -
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9245785/3D_printing_now_in_living_color_

It can print in hundreds of colours. To get imperceptible accuracy
will require something capable of many thousands of colours.


--
T

[SD!]

With or without perfect colour, you still need proper models first. I am
very much interested in creating those. I even thought of some crowdfunding
a proper, highly accurate reversal of the CAD files and and making 3D
models, but after asking a few questions it looked to me that I was more
enthusiastic than the rest of the community..
--
SD!

[Wesley Moyer]

Then you get two halves from different computers, and that can make the colors WAY off!

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Hg <H...@hg.hg> wrote:

> It can print in hundreds of colours. To get imperceptible accuracy
> will require something capable of many thousands of colours.

The main feature of that printer seems to be the ability to print
in multiple types of materials (flexible prints are the big thing
right now, there is even flexible filament for home 3D printers).

Full colour commercial printers have been around a while now,
Staples in the USA were going to start offering a 3D printing
service a while back useing one of the flash full colour machines.
I can't remember the model/make, but if you search for the news
about Staples + 3D Printing from last year it should turn up.
Convincing skin tones have been printed before, so getting a
single colour right wouldn't be a problem for commercial machines.
In fact the colourful ones often work much like injet printers.

Actually, for the home machines, the plastic filament that is
melted to make the prints is dyed by basically passing through
a box of dye after it is extruded. I don't know what range of
dyes is available, but you might have noticed plactics are pretty
popular nowadays so I'd figure the sky would be the limit, just a
case of picking which one matches (and doubtless you can pay
someone to do that scientifically too. Actually I know a crowd in
Australia who would probably be able to do a run with whatever dye
you want, if you want $1,000+ worth of it to justify the run.

The real problem with 3D printing C64 cases (other than the fact
that the cost just doesn't work out Vs a broken C64 from Ebay)
is their size, only the most rediculously big DIY 3D printers
would be able to handle something that big, and a lot of
commercial offerings wouldn't be able to do it either.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

[Bo Zimmerman]

Hi Hg, I know this is an old question but I wanted to take a shot at answering it. Mostly because it gives me an excuse to talk about retr0brighting. It's something I have been doing a LOT of over the last year, and I've a few observations to throw out there.

First your question: Is the new coloring accurate? Yes, absolutely.
How do I know? One clue mentioned previously is very true: check the underside/inside/"dark" side of the case -- that's the color to match. Another clue is that, at some point, additional applications of retr0bright just don't seem to DO anything more. That's another way to know you are done.

That said, I've had some quirks. A few of the front face-plates on some of the Commodore PCs, typically ones that were both grey and bumpy-textured, have not responded well, ending up a little streaked. Some Commodore PC keyboards have also behaved this way after treatment. However, all the regular plastic cases, whether 8-bit or Amiga, and most PC keyboards and cases have all responded very well.

Also, if anyone is interested in retr0brighting, and wants to buy back some mixing time with money, I recommend picking up Salon Care 40 Volume Creme Developer. It's basically retr0bright in a bottle.

- Bo

[rber...@iglou.com]

On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 11:49:58 PM UTC-8, Bo Zimmerman wrote:

> ...if anyone is interested in retr0brighting, and wants to buy back some mixing time with money, I recommend picking up Salon Care 40 Volume Creme Developer. It's basically retr0bright in a bottle.

Excellent! Having the process simplified is always good.

FCUG celebrating 33 years,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm