Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Chameleon & C64 SuperCPU?
402 views
Skip to first unread message
cts3000
Dec 14, 2012, 11:46:49 AM12/14/12
to
Will the Chameleon eventually be
able to emulate the C64 SuperCPU?
If not, why?
Chris
able to emulate the C64 SuperCPU?
If not, why?
Chris
Shaun Bebbington
Dec 14, 2012, 12:37:26 PM12/14/12
to
From what I recall, the stated intention of the Chameleon is to do only 65xx op codes, including illegals. The SuperCPU uses the 65816, and emulates the 6502 and 65c02. It does not handle illegal op codes.
I also think that the Chameleon is only going to have REU-style (17xx) RAM, up to 16MB, with a SuperCPU, you can have up to 16MB of system RAM with the SuperRAM card *as well as* REU-style RAM, and it'll happily work with a RAMLink - therefore, technically, you could have: 16MB SuperRAM, 16MB RAMLink 'RAM' and 2MB (possibly up to 16MB with the U1541, I've not tested) of REU style RAM via the RAMLink RAMPort, making 34MB in total for different purposes (and possibly up to 48MB if the U1541 etc... will sit happily in the RAMPort and all 16MB can be accessed). The SuperCPU also has its' own internal memory too, for specifications, see here:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/spacetaxi64/SPEED-UP-CARTS/SPEED-C64-CPU.htm
The SuperCPU will work with the C128 including 80 columns mode as long as you have the relevant MMU adapter installed on the host machine. The guys developing the Chameleon have no interest whatsoever in the C128, unless this has changed recently.
So, it's highly unlikely that the Chameleon will end up as a SuperCPU clone: it's simply like running an emulator >1Mhz.
Regards,
Shaun.
I also think that the Chameleon is only going to have REU-style (17xx) RAM, up to 16MB, with a SuperCPU, you can have up to 16MB of system RAM with the SuperRAM card *as well as* REU-style RAM, and it'll happily work with a RAMLink - therefore, technically, you could have: 16MB SuperRAM, 16MB RAMLink 'RAM' and 2MB (possibly up to 16MB with the U1541, I've not tested) of REU style RAM via the RAMLink RAMPort, making 34MB in total for different purposes (and possibly up to 48MB if the U1541 etc... will sit happily in the RAMPort and all 16MB can be accessed). The SuperCPU also has its' own internal memory too, for specifications, see here:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/spacetaxi64/SPEED-UP-CARTS/SPEED-C64-CPU.htm
The SuperCPU will work with the C128 including 80 columns mode as long as you have the relevant MMU adapter installed on the host machine. The guys developing the Chameleon have no interest whatsoever in the C128, unless this has changed recently.
So, it's highly unlikely that the Chameleon will end up as a SuperCPU clone: it's simply like running an emulator >1Mhz.
Regards,
Shaun.
Shaun Bebbington
Dec 14, 2012, 3:29:00 PM12/14/12
to
I've just checked this site: http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm
The bench-marking they've used means that the Chameleon is better. I wonder how the test was conducted to reach those conclusions? Also, I'm pretty sure that the 65816 instruction set makes up for a few illegal op codes, plus it works with more Commodore hardware thanks to a pass-through port.
Regards,
Shaun.
The bench-marking they've used means that the Chameleon is better. I wonder how the test was conducted to reach those conclusions? Also, I'm pretty sure that the 65816 instruction set makes up for a few illegal op codes, plus it works with more Commodore hardware thanks to a pass-through port.
Regards,
Shaun.
cts3000
Dec 15, 2012, 8:24:32 AM12/15/12
to
Bummer. I'd like to be able to play Metal Dust.
Thanks for the info, its fun to hear about.
- Chris
Thanks for the info, its fun to hear about.
- Chris
Shaun Bebbington
Dec 15, 2012, 12:49:33 PM12/15/12
to
I never understood the decision to restrict the device to just 65xx and not 65c02 or 65816, especially when you consider that all previous accelerator cards have been either 65c02 or 65816, nor did I understand why 128 compatibility was ignored. Because, even if the Chameleon works with the RAMLink, I'm restricted to only using 64 mode... what's the point of that when I use 128 software as well as 64 software? And there are several benefits of 128 mode. Therefore, the claim of GEOS compatibility should point out that it's only GEOS 64 compatibility.
Regards,
Shaun.
Hg
Dec 15, 2012, 11:02:38 PM12/15/12
to
This Chameleon cart seems to have gone under my radar - or else i've
heard about it before and i've just forgotten about it. Looks feature
rich for sure, though as has been pointed out it lacks some things
which could make it even better.
Another curious omission seems to be the lack of DTV compat graphics
modes - even though it implements its own high res & greater colour
modes. Shame, as third party programs must be close to zero for
stuff that uses the Chameleon's hardware, while a quick check of
CSDB reveals 80 DTV entries (though most are small utilities & demos.)
--
T
Shaun Bebbington
Dec 16, 2012, 8:28:34 AM12/16/12
to
This is what happens when you make a piece of hardware that is to your own dream specifications (ie, what Individual Computers wanted), but not to what most other people want[ed]. An attempt to support the C128, or to at least work with CMD hardware, would have been useful; a SuperCPU 'mode' or 65816 emulation would have at least meant that there'd be some unique software out there, and maybe a port of Metal Dust to the Chameleon may have been on the cards if it'd had the compatibility already there.
I guess it is finally time for a SuperCPU-compatible accelerator, or an upgrade with a SuperCPU-alike mode.
I guess it is finally time for a SuperCPU-compatible accelerator, or an upgrade with a SuperCPU-alike mode.
cts3000
Dec 16, 2012, 12:27:43 PM12/16/12
to
Vice SuperCPU support would be nice!
- Chris
- Chris
Shaun Bebbington
Dec 17, 2012, 7:57:25 AM12/17/12
to
Last time I checked, that's not likely to happen :-/
Groepaz
Dec 21, 2012, 12:29:13 PM12/21/12
to
Shaun Bebbington wrote:
> Last time I checked, that's not likely to happen :-/
and as usual, you have little clue. its happening right there: http://vice-
> Last time I checked, that's not likely to happen :-/
emu.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/vice-emu/branches/soci/vice-scpu64/
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
Love conquers all except poverty and toothache.
<Mae West>
Groepaz
Dec 21, 2012, 12:35:09 PM12/21/12
to
Hg wrote:
> Another curious omission seems to be the lack of DTV compat graphics
> modes - even though it implements its own high res & greater colour
> modes. Shame, as third party programs must be close to zero for
> stuff that uses the Chameleon's hardware, while a quick check of
> CSDB reveals 80 DTV entries (though most are small utilities & demos.)
well, first of all the chameleon doesnt actually implement own high res and
> Another curious omission seems to be the lack of DTV compat graphics
> modes - even though it implements its own high res & greater colour
> modes. Shame, as third party programs must be close to zero for
> stuff that uses the Chameleon's hardware, while a quick check of
> CSDB reveals 80 DTV entries (though most are small utilities & demos.)
color modes - that was removed a while ago since it makes little sense and
because we dont want to create a new platform.
and as for implementing DTV - that is a whole different can of worms that we
dont want to open either unless we are satisfied with the accurracy of the
current emulation (which will still take a long time i suppose). that
virtually no detail documentation exists on how DTV actually works (the only
half accurate one is the VICE sourcecode, and a lot of that is pure
guesswork and not actually working right) doesnt make it a whole lot easier.
not even starting with how few programs actually require a DTV to work -
it'd make more sense to create a scpu core then =)
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
Groepaz
Dec 21, 2012, 12:36:53 PM12/21/12
to
Shaun Bebbington wrote:
> Metal Dust is a good game, well it's good enough; I don't suppose that
> Protovision will consider a port to the Chameleon as it'll require a lot
> of re-writing.
actually, you are wrong. two times in one sentence even =)
> Metal Dust is a good game, well it's good enough; I don't suppose that
> Protovision will consider a port to the Chameleon as it'll require a lot
> of re-writing.
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
reason is that very few people do anything creative before the age of
thirty-five
<Joel Hildebrand>
Groepaz
Dec 21, 2012, 12:41:14 PM12/21/12
to
Shaun Bebbington wrote:
> I've just checked this site: http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm
>
> The bench-marking they've used means that the Chameleon is better. I
> wonder how the test was conducted to reach those conclusions?
it simply executes a fixed number of instructions and measures execution
> I've just checked this site: http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm
>
> The bench-marking they've used means that the Chameleon is better. I
> wonder how the test was conducted to reach those conclusions?
time using a CIA timer. there is very little to dispute there =P need the
sourcecode to verify? =P
> Also, I'm
> pretty sure that the 65816 instruction set makes up for a few illegal op
> codes,
instruction sets, thank you.
> plus it works with more Commodore hardware thanks to a pass-through
> port.
frankenstein installment though.
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
verwendete Lizenz.
<avatar, Wikipedia Admin>
Groepaz
Dec 21, 2012, 12:48:58 PM12/21/12
to
Shaun Bebbington wrote:
> This is what happens when you make a piece of hardware that is to your own
> dream specifications (ie, what Individual Computers wanted), but not to
> what most other people want[ed].
rotfl. so much about being delusioned. in reality
> This is what happens when you make a piece of hardware that is to your own
> dream specifications (ie, what Individual Computers wanted), but not to
> what most other people want[ed].
* most people do not ever use C128 mode
* most people do not use nor want any accelerator for their C64
* most people do not want to use ancient disk and harddrives. infact most
want to get rid of them in favour of SD card based solutions.
infact, this all is what YOU want. and maybe a handful others (which are
ofcourse very vocal on teh internet about it - as usual)
sometimes i am really wondering why we have a hard time supplying new
chameleons quick enough so vesalia doesnt have to list it as "sold out". its
probably because its features are like most people dont want them =)
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
Martin Wohlauer
Dec 21, 2012, 1:23:15 PM12/21/12
to
Am 21.12.2012 18:48, schrieb Groepaz:
> sometimes i am really wondering why we have a hard time supplying new
> chameleons quick enough so vesalia doesnt have to list it as "sold out". its
> probably because its features are like most people dont want them =)
Or maybe not for that much money...
> sometimes i am really wondering why we have a hard time supplying new
> chameleons quick enough so vesalia doesnt have to list it as "sold out". its
> probably because its features are like most people dont want them =)
Greetings,
Martin.
Shaun Bebbington
Dec 21, 2012, 3:16:32 PM12/21/12
to gro...@gmx.net
> you have never coded a single thing. please shut up when it comes to
> instruction sets, thank you.
How would you know this? I have never coded a single thing? My bit bucket account says otherwise.
> instruction sets, thank you.
Regards,
Shaun.
Groepaz
Dec 21, 2012, 7:45:21 PM12/21/12
to
with the occasional nonsense regarding scpu and c128 pretty much is
screaming it out, loudly.
(and please refrain from sending me duplicated mails, thank you)
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
Gegenteil is schon schwieriger.
<Kurt Tucholsky>
Hg
Dec 21, 2012, 10:18:28 PM12/21/12
to
On 21/12/2012 22:35, Groepaz wrote:
> Hg wrote:
>> Another curious omission seems to be the lack of DTV compat graphics
>> modes - even though it implements its own high res & greater colour
>> modes. Shame, as third party programs must be close to zero for
>> stuff that uses the Chameleon's hardware, while a quick check of
>> CSDB reveals 80 DTV entries (though most are small utilities & demos.)
>
> well, first of all the chameleon doesnt actually implement own high res and
> color modes - that was removed a while ago since it makes little sense and
> because we dont want to create a new platform.
>
> and as for implementing DTV - that is a whole different can of worms that we
> dont want to open either unless we are satisfied with the accurracy of the
> current emulation (which will still take a long time i suppose). that
> virtually no detail documentation exists on how DTV actually works (the only
> half accurate one is the VICE sourcecode, and a lot of that is pure
> guesswork and not actually working right) doesnt make it a whole lot easier.
> not even starting with how few programs actually require a DTV to work -
> it'd make more sense to create a scpu core then =)
>
Ah, I was only going by what the Chameleon product page states - that
> Hg wrote:
>> Another curious omission seems to be the lack of DTV compat graphics
>> modes - even though it implements its own high res & greater colour
>> modes. Shame, as third party programs must be close to zero for
>> stuff that uses the Chameleon's hardware, while a quick check of
>> CSDB reveals 80 DTV entries (though most are small utilities & demos.)
>
> well, first of all the chameleon doesnt actually implement own high res and
> color modes - that was removed a while ago since it makes little sense and
> because we dont want to create a new platform.
>
> and as for implementing DTV - that is a whole different can of worms that we
> dont want to open either unless we are satisfied with the accurracy of the
> current emulation (which will still take a long time i suppose). that
> virtually no detail documentation exists on how DTV actually works (the only
> half accurate one is the VICE sourcecode, and a lot of that is pure
> guesswork and not actually working right) doesnt make it a whole lot easier.
> not even starting with how few programs actually require a DTV to work -
> it'd make more sense to create a scpu core then =)
>
it does possess additional gfx modes. Thanks for clearing that up,
that in fact it does not.
--
T
Shaun Bebbington
Dec 22, 2012, 3:38:12 AM12/22/12
to gro...@gmx.net
I've not released anything for the C64* because I don't like the C64 scene, it has one too many 'scene queens' for my liking. But I have programmed in 6502 and 65816 (of course) as well as MIPs assembly (PSP) and Z80 (Spectrum and ZX81), including the usual suspects, C, C++, Java, PHP, BASIC and probably a few other high level languages that I've forgot about. I really like C actually. If I could use that all of the time for everything**, then I would.
Regards,
Shaun.
* I wrote a 6502 beginners guide to assembly for Micro Mart magazine. This was republished in Commodore FREE issues 58 - 60. PLEASE read the disclaimer which was published with the articles in these issues before commenting.
** Except the C64, of course, as I have no interest in releasing anything for the C64.
Groepaz
Dec 22, 2012, 8:09:14 PM12/22/12
to
Shaun Bebbington wrote:
> On Saturday, 22 December 2012 00:45:21 UTC, Groepaz wrote:
>> Shaun Bebbington wrote:
>> >> you have never coded a single thing. please shut up when it comes to
>> >> instruction sets, thank you.
>> >
>> > How would you know this? I have never coded a single thing? My bit
>> > bucket account says otherwise.
>> your remarks on how chameleon works and how you dont understand it mixed
>> with the occasional nonsense regarding scpu and c128 pretty much is
>> screaming it out, loudly.
>>
>> (and please refrain from sending me duplicated mails, thank you)
>> --
>> http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
>> http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
>>
>> Der Vorteil der Klugheit besteht darin, dass man sich dumm stellen kann.
>> Das Gegenteil is schon schwieriger.
>> <Kurt Tucholsky>
>
> I haven't sent you any emails, duplicate or otherwise. Why would I email
> you? If Google Groups is emailing you this then that's not me sending it
> to you directly. I'll have to see if there's a way to switch off this
> feature from my end.
i honestly dont care what broken news client you are using - there is no
> On Saturday, 22 December 2012 00:45:21 UTC, Groepaz wrote:
>> Shaun Bebbington wrote:
>> >> you have never coded a single thing. please shut up when it comes to
>> >> instruction sets, thank you.
>> >
>> > How would you know this? I have never coded a single thing? My bit
>> > bucket account says otherwise.
>> your remarks on how chameleon works and how you dont understand it mixed
>> with the occasional nonsense regarding scpu and c128 pretty much is
>> screaming it out, loudly.
>>
>> (and please refrain from sending me duplicated mails, thank you)
>> --
>> http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
>> http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
>>
>> Der Vorteil der Klugheit besteht darin, dass man sich dumm stellen kann.
>> Das Gegenteil is schon schwieriger.
>> <Kurt Tucholsky>
>
> I haven't sent you any emails, duplicate or otherwise. Why would I email
> you? If Google Groups is emailing you this then that's not me sending it
> to you directly. I'll have to see if there's a way to switch off this
> feature from my end.
reason to send a copy by mail in any case. please dont.
> [...] But I have
> programmed in 6502 and 65816 (of course) as well as [...]
i was referring to c64, c128, scpu ofcourse. it takes more than knowing 6502
asm.
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
Shaun Bebbington
Dec 22, 2012, 8:28:45 PM12/22/12
to gro...@gmx.net
> i honestly dont care what broken news client you are using - there is no
> reason to send a copy by mail in any case. please dont.
>
I have no idea what you're talking about. Is something being lost in translation here? And I don't know how I am or how I have sent a copy by mail. If I did, it was not intentional.
> reason to send a copy by mail in any case. please dont.
>
>
> i was referring to c64, c128, scpu ofcourse. it takes more than knowing 6502
> asm.
What takes more than knowing 6502? I've programmed for, but not released stuff, for the C64 and 128, and done SuperCPU and REU programming.
> i was referring to c64, c128, scpu ofcourse. it takes more than knowing 6502
> asm.
When I wrote my drawing primitives API in MIPs for Uni, I did all of the prototype coding on the C64 and ZX Spectrum first, then reverse-engineered my code to MIPs.
Okay, my MIPs code was rushed out in about two weeks because I found the module much easier than the 3D graphics one I was also studying at the same time. I figured than my worst effort will pass and I still managed to explain a lot of assembly to my fellow students as, well, these young 'uns don't tend to learn it for fun like the old days. At least the Uni taught it, even though they taught MIPs as though it was C.
Regards,
Shaun.
Groepaz
Dec 22, 2012, 8:52:23 PM12/22/12
to
Shaun Bebbington wrote:
>> i honestly dont care what broken news client you are using - there is no
>> reason to send a copy by mail in any case. please dont.
>>
> I have no idea what you're talking about. Is something being lost in
> translation here? And I don't know how I am or how I have sent a copy by
> mail. If I did, it was not intentional.
Message-ID: <54f213f1-0016-4909...@googlegroups.com>
>> i honestly dont care what broken news client you are using - there is no
>> reason to send a copy by mail in any case. please dont.
>>
> I have no idea what you're talking about. Is something being lost in
> translation here? And I don't know how I am or how I have sent a copy by
> mail. If I did, it was not intentional.
Subject: Re: Chameleon & C64 SuperCPU?
From: Shaun Bebbington <commodorec...@googlemail.com>
To: comp.s...@googlegroups.com
Cc: gro...@gmx.net
and i dont care if it was intentional or not either.
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
what I wish done,' give him a lollipop.
<Alan J. Perlis>
Shaun Bebbington
Dec 23, 2012, 2:48:17 PM12/23/12
to
Geopaz: I still have no idea what you mean by copying your mail. That is all.
iancoog
Dec 23, 2012, 3:20:49 PM12/23/12
to
On 23/12/2012 02:52, Groepaz wrote:
> Message-ID: <54f213f1-0016-4909...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Chameleon & C64 SuperCPU?
> From: Shaun Bebbington <commodorec...@googlemail.com>
> To: comp.s...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: gro...@gmx.net
>
> and i dont care if it was intentional or not either.
erm, it's actually YOU to have a reply-to on your posts
> Message-ID: <54f213f1-0016-4909...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Chameleon & C64 SuperCPU?
> From: Shaun Bebbington <commodorec...@googlemail.com>
> To: comp.s...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: gro...@gmx.net
>
> and i dont care if it was intentional or not either.
From: Groepaz <gro...@gmx.net>
Reply-To: gro...@gmx.net
Organization: Hitmen
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 18:29:13 +0100
=)
Groepaz
Dec 25, 2012, 2:28:56 PM12/25/12
to
iancoog wrote:
> On 23/12/2012 02:52, Groepaz wrote:
>
>> Message-ID: <54f213f1-0016-4909...@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: Chameleon & C64 SuperCPU?
>> From: Shaun Bebbington <commodorec...@googlemail.com>
>> To: comp.s...@googlegroups.com
>> Cc: gro...@gmx.net
>>
>> and i dont care if it was intentional or not either.
>
>
> erm, it's actually YOU to have a reply-to on your posts
that is reply to sender, obviously. news clients dont use that by default,
> On 23/12/2012 02:52, Groepaz wrote:
>
>> Message-ID: <54f213f1-0016-4909...@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: Chameleon & C64 SuperCPU?
>> From: Shaun Bebbington <commodorec...@googlemail.com>
>> To: comp.s...@googlegroups.com
>> Cc: gro...@gmx.net
>>
>> and i dont care if it was intentional or not either.
>
>
> erm, it's actually YOU to have a reply-to on your posts
they reply to the group only, unless told otherwise.
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
J.E.Bielak
Dec 26, 2012, 11:11:16 PM12/26/12
to
Bought over the summer. It's VERY beta and VERY much a work in progress,
so it's not something I'd recommend to everyone. It's not going to
replace my uIEC drives, or my 1541U-I anytime soon, but overall I think
it's a nice, if not somewhat pricey, device.
It has some HUGE potential of being an ultimate Commodore "everything in
one"... though it first needs to be one good thing before it can attempt
to be everything else. A big problem is user expectations I think.
Being a sort of "indy" project it can take a very long time to flesh
things out, and no matter how many times you say "BETA", some people
tend to get a bit "impatient", to put it politely.
Beyond being in beta, the biggest downside is that it appears to be
rather sensitive... there's all sorts of warnings about
damaging/destroying the Chameleon and/or 64 (Don't even THINK of putting
it in a 128!!!) with multi-cart extensions. my pet peeve is the
grounding on the 9 pin socket for the breakout cable is not so great,
thought it was broken until I realized problem.
Being an FPGA device, in theory a core can be created for any Commodore
variant... or any number of other systems for that matter... it just a
matter of who decides to do one. I've played with the Amiga and Specy
cores and it's pretty cool.
-John-
so it's not something I'd recommend to everyone. It's not going to
replace my uIEC drives, or my 1541U-I anytime soon, but overall I think
it's a nice, if not somewhat pricey, device.
It has some HUGE potential of being an ultimate Commodore "everything in
one"... though it first needs to be one good thing before it can attempt
to be everything else. A big problem is user expectations I think.
Being a sort of "indy" project it can take a very long time to flesh
things out, and no matter how many times you say "BETA", some people
tend to get a bit "impatient", to put it politely.
Beyond being in beta, the biggest downside is that it appears to be
rather sensitive... there's all sorts of warnings about
damaging/destroying the Chameleon and/or 64 (Don't even THINK of putting
it in a 128!!!) with multi-cart extensions. my pet peeve is the
grounding on the 9 pin socket for the breakout cable is not so great,
thought it was broken until I realized problem.
Being an FPGA device, in theory a core can be created for any Commodore
variant... or any number of other systems for that matter... it just a
matter of who decides to do one. I've played with the Amiga and Specy
cores and it's pretty cool.
-John-
rber...@iglou.com
Dec 27, 2012, 11:20:47 PM12/27/12
to
On Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:11:16 PM UTC-8, J.E.Bielak wrote:
> Being an FPGA device, in theory a core can be created for any Commodore
> variant... or any number of other systems for that matter... it just a
> matter of who decides to do one. I've played with the Amiga and Specy
> cores and it's pretty cool.
Oh, you would then be interested in ArcadeRetroGaming's Multiple Classic Computer 216 (MCC-216) at
> Being an FPGA device, in theory a core can be created for any Commodore
> variant... or any number of other systems for that matter... it just a
> matter of who decides to do one. I've played with the Amiga and Specy
> cores and it's pretty cool.
http://mcc-home.com/
with its C64, Atari 2600, Amiga OS 1.3, Spectrum, and Apple II cores. And then there is the FPGA Arcade at
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/
with its various computer and game console cores.
Merry Christmas!
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
rber...@iglou.com
Dec 27, 2012, 11:20:53 PM12/27/12
to
On Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:11:16 PM UTC-8, J.E.Bielak wrote:
> Being an FPGA device, in theory a core can be created for any Commodore
> variant... or any number of other systems for that matter... it just a
> matter of who decides to do one. I've played with the Amiga and Specy
> cores and it's pretty cool.
> variant... or any number of other systems for that matter... it just a
> matter of who decides to do one. I've played with the Amiga and Specy
> cores and it's pretty cool.
Pekka Takala
Dec 31, 2012, 3:24:18 AM12/31/12
to
Fri, 21 Dec 2012 18:41:14 +0100, Groepaz kirjoitti:
> Shaun Bebbington wrote:
>
>> Also, I'm pretty sure that the 65816 instruction set makes up for a few
>> illegal op codes,
>
> you have never coded a single thing. please shut up when it comes to
> instruction sets, thank you.
I have coded on 65816. There is no undocumented opcodes like the 6502 has.
Why?
There is _no space_ in 65816 opcode list. _EVERY_ opcode in area $00-$ff
is used and documented.
The only opcode that could be undocumented, is WDM opcode. It is reserved
as a extension byte for 32 bit 65xxx -series (at least to my knowledge)
and it works as a NOP in a 65816. It is not recommended to use that
opcode since if you use it, the code is not any more compatible with 32-
bit version of 65816.
The NMOS 6502/6510 (and the 8500/8502/8510 counterpart) DO have the
undocumented opcodes. 65CE02 and so on simply ignore them or have a valid
opcode there.
So if you want to code ompatible, DO NOT USE UNDOCUMENTED OPCODES! I have
done that and seen that.
Many demos are incompatible with SuperCpu due to fact they use
undocumented opcodes (and 65816 works differently with them)
Pekka
> Shaun Bebbington wrote:
>
>> Also, I'm pretty sure that the 65816 instruction set makes up for a few
>> illegal op codes,
>
> you have never coded a single thing. please shut up when it comes to
> instruction sets, thank you.
Why?
There is _no space_ in 65816 opcode list. _EVERY_ opcode in area $00-$ff
is used and documented.
The only opcode that could be undocumented, is WDM opcode. It is reserved
as a extension byte for 32 bit 65xxx -series (at least to my knowledge)
and it works as a NOP in a 65816. It is not recommended to use that
opcode since if you use it, the code is not any more compatible with 32-
bit version of 65816.
The NMOS 6502/6510 (and the 8500/8502/8510 counterpart) DO have the
undocumented opcodes. 65CE02 and so on simply ignore them or have a valid
opcode there.
So if you want to code ompatible, DO NOT USE UNDOCUMENTED OPCODES! I have
done that and seen that.
Many demos are incompatible with SuperCpu due to fact they use
undocumented opcodes (and 65816 works differently with them)
Pekka
J.E.Bielak
Dec 31, 2012, 8:42:33 PM12/31/12
to
Amazon, hadn't been to their home page though. the board they're
working on at FPGA Arcade looks really interesting, though the site
looks like it hasn't been updated since last May. Anyone know if they
moved to the "New Site" they were talking about?
I went with a Chameleon 64 more as a peripheral for the 64... the
standalone 64 mode, and the other cores, was a nice bonus introduction
to the whole FPGA scene.
I really like the idea using FPGA for replicating classic hardware. My
only problem, which has been holding me off, is that there seems to be
like at a dozen different implementations, each supporting different
sets of cores. I picked up the casing from an old TRS-80 Model 3...
Lol, and spent WAY too much on a new bare 12" 1024x768 LCD VGA panel
that would fit into the old monitor space... and have be working on
turning it into a retro style casing. I was planning to toss a MicroATX
board in there and run emulators, but it would be WAY cooler to do with
FPGA hardware.... But, what FPGA board to use? At worst I suppose, as
the boards appear relatively small, I could run several in the same
casing and just use a KVM switch, but I'd prefer to use one set of
hardware if at all possible.
-John-
Groepaz
Jan 2, 2013, 2:18:34 PM1/2/13
to
rber...@iglou.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:11:16 PM UTC-8, J.E.Bielak wrote:
>
>> Being an FPGA device, in theory a core can be created for any Commodore
>> variant... or any number of other systems for that matter... it just a
>> matter of who decides to do one. I've played with the Amiga and Specy
>> cores and it's pretty cool.
>
> Oh, you would then be interested in ArcadeRetroGaming's Multiple
> Classic Computer 216 (MCC-216) at
>
> http://mcc-home.com/
>
> with its C64, Atari 2600, Amiga OS 1.3, Spectrum, and Apple II cores. And
> then there is the FPGA Arcade at
>
> http://www.fpgaarcade.com/
>
> with its various computer and game console cores.
the chameleon has more fpga resources and last not least doesnt violate the
> On Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:11:16 PM UTC-8, J.E.Bielak wrote:
>
>> Being an FPGA device, in theory a core can be created for any Commodore
>> variant... or any number of other systems for that matter... it just a
>> matter of who decides to do one. I've played with the Amiga and Specy
>> cores and it's pretty cool.
>
> Oh, you would then be interested in ArcadeRetroGaming's Multiple
> Classic Computer 216 (MCC-216) at
>
> http://mcc-home.com/
>
> with its C64, Atari 2600, Amiga OS 1.3, Spectrum, and Apple II cores. And
> then there is the FPGA Arcade at
>
> http://www.fpgaarcade.com/
>
> with its various computer and game console cores.
GPL left and right with its cores either. the MCC is really only a good
choice if you are not expecting much, especially not being compatible with
anything (the c64 core is quite bad, basically being a fpga64 ripoff from
years ago. the vcs core is even worse and can hardly run anything. and the
amiga core is a minimig ripoff which will get you lots of "nice" reactions
once asking questions in a minimig related forum...).
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
<Kernighan & Plauger>
rber...@iglou.com
Jan 4, 2013, 2:14:00 AM1/4/13
to j.bi...@removetosend.questarian.com
On Monday, December 31, 2012 5:42:33 PM UTC-8, J.E.Bielak wrote:
> Thanks for the links. I've seen the MCC stuff before, on eBay and
> Amazon, hadn't been to their home page though. the board they're
> working on at FPGA Arcade looks really interesting...
> Thanks for the links. I've seen the MCC stuff before, on eBay and
> Amazon, hadn't been to their home page though. the board they're
No problem, John. Work has slowly but steadily progressed on the MCC-216, though I don't know what the current progress is on the FPGA Arcade.
> Lol, and spent WAY too much on a new bare 12" 1024x768 LCD VGA panel
> that would fit into the old monitor space... and have be working on
> turning it into a retro style casing.
Happy New Year!
Questarian
Jan 6, 2013, 12:32:25 PM1/6/13
to
sure where it went :)
I picked the monitor up on eBay last May: It some generic Chinese thing.
Currently it listed under:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251206036366?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
or under the user ID of baldwin20000:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/baldwin20000/m.html?item=251206036366&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
It's a bit pricey, USD $158 +$60 shipping, but it's new, 4:3 aspect,
12", VGA, and 1024 x 768 Res which is about the best I could find. The
LCD panel, driver board, and controls are mounted in a simple metal
frame and can easily removed. One out of the frame, It's a fairly
clean arrangement that's pretty ideal for custom mounting inside a retro
casing.
Looking again now I found another eBay seller with a wider selection
that's way cheaper:
http://stores.ebay.com/chinatobby/category528252719-/_i.html?_fsub=528252719&_sid=1070328859&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
The 12 inch panels they offer appear to have better driver boards.... I
may end-up buying of of those as well.
-John-
0 new messages