is it possible to read/write Commodore disks on an IBM PC?
Andy Toy, Applications Support Group
commodore format floppies on an ibm pc? I want to download stuff
to a IBM PC and then write them to floppies that commodore drives
can read without getting someone else to download the stuff for me
since I don't have a modem for the commodore.
--
Andy Toy, Applications Support Group, Department of Computing Services (DCS),
University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA N2L 3G1, (519) 885-1211 x3417
UUCP: ...!watmath!watdcsu!andytoy NetNorth/BITNET: andytoy@watdcsu
InterNet: and...@watdcsu.waterloo.edu and...@watdcsu.UWaterloo.ca
Rick
>Does anyone have any software that will read/write/diskcopy/filecopy
>commodore format floppies on an ibm pc? I want to download stuff
>to a IBM PC and then write them to floppies that commodore drives
>can read without getting someone else to download the stuff for me
>since I don't have a modem for the commodore.
I think what you need to find out is if your Commodore drive can read ibm
formatted disks since the the ibm cannot read the commodore format.
I hope someone will provide the answer to this since I have often wanted to
read disks formated on my IBM PC-AT on my 1571 drive, but have been
unsuccessful. Is there a way to get this done? How must the IBM disk be
formatted for the 1571 to read it? I have heard that disks formatted on the
AT cannot be read by the 1571 no matter how they are formatted, is this
correct?
rick
Glendell R. Midkiff
> Does anyone have any software that will read/write/diskcopy/filecopy
> commodore format floppies on an ibm pc?
I have used a product called "Big Blue Reader" that allows you to copy
a Commodore format disk (1571 Drive Only) to MS-DOS format or vice versa.
It will not work with a 1541 drive. It has worked really well for me.
--
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Glen Midkiff cboscd!osu-cis!dsacg1!gmidkiff |
| Phone: (614)-238-9643@DLA, Systems Automation Center, Columbus, Oh. |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
Michael A. Petonic
>In article <47...@watdcsu.waterloo.edu> and...@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (Andy Toy, Applications Support Group) writes:
>>Does anyone have any software that will read/write/diskcopy/filecopy
>>commodore format floppies on an ibm pc? I want to download stuff
>>to a IBM PC and then write them to floppies that commodore drives
>>can read without getting someone else to download the stuff for me
>>since I don't have a modem for the commodore.
>
>I think what you need to find out is if your Commodore drive can read ibm
>formatted disks since the the ibm cannot read the commodore format.
Almost no chance that you can read IBM diskettes in a Commodore disk drive.
There's a better chance that you can write Commodore disks on an
IBM. The reason for this is because the Commodore disk drive has the
controller built into the disk drive, thereby making it a "smart" disk
drive. "Smart" disk drives rarely provide operations other than
read sector, write sector, format, etc. No low level interleave/sectoring
commands.
I know this is so for the Atari 800 lines, and I'm 98% sure this is
true of the Commodore. That's why copy protection was so easy to
defeat in the early Atari 800 disk releases, and why it was so
hard to beat when the software manufacturers started customizing their
disk drives to produce the distribution diskettes.
-MikeP
George Simon
>In article <7...@lakesys.UUCP> ri...@lakesys.UUCP (Rick) writes:
> >In article <47...@watdcsu.waterloo.edu> and...@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (Andy Toy, Applications Support Group) writes:
> >>Does anyone have any software that will read/write/diskcopy/filecopy
> >>commodore format floppies on an ibm pc? I want to download stuff
> >>to a IBM PC and then write them to floppies that commodore drives
> >>can read without getting someone else to download the stuff for me
> >>since I don't have a modem for the commodore.
> >
> >I think what you need to find out is if your Commodore drive can read ibm
> >formatted disks since the the ibm cannot read the commodore format.
>
>Almost no chance that you can read IBM diskettes in a Commodore disk drive.
>There's a better chance that you can write Commodore disks on an IBM
IBM drives use an MFM floppy controller. Commodore disks are made using
GCR encoding (rather than MFM), so there is little chance of doing anything
with a commodore disk on a Pc without reprogramming the controller to do GCR.
I guess someone out there could build a GCR floppy controller for a Pc, but
there is an easier way.
>... The reason for this is because the Commodore disk drive has the
>controller built into the disk drive, thereby making it a "smart" disk
>drive. "Smart" disk drives rarely provide operations other than
>read sector, write sector, format, etc. No low level interleave/sectoring
>commands.
Have you ever played with the Commodore 1571 disk drive?
>
>I know this is so for the Atari 800 lines, and I'm 98% sure this is
>true of the Commodore. That's why copy protection was so easy to
>defeat in the early Atari 800 disk releases, and why it was so
>hard to beat when the software manufacturers started customizing their
>disk drives to produce the distribution diskettes.
>
>-MikeP
Hmmm. I think the 1571 can read/write a standard 360k dos floppy, and
even does a couple of dozen Cp/m (MFM) formats. As a matter of fact,
I've done so, and it works quite well. The 1571 can do both MFM and GCR
(Commodore) encoding. The Pc drive controllers normally only do MFM.
Has anyone ever heard of a GCR controller?
Does anyone use GCR besides Commodore?
- Simon.
<-------------------------------------------------------------------------->
<--- Simon Gales@University of Ky 254-9387/257-3597 --->
<--- [si...@ms.uky.edu] | [cbosgd!ukma!simon] | [si...@UKMA.BITNET] --->
<-------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Charles Lord
>
> Has anyone ever heard of a GCR controller?
> Does anyone use GCR besides Commodore?
Apple started it all with the Apple][ disk drives which are all
GCR. But, no, - you can't read Apple<->C64/128.
The only GCR controller I ever knew of was the IWM - Integrated
Woz Machine that is/was proprietary to Apple. Here's a useless
task for you hackers on the net: Interface the IWM to the PC bus
to read/write Commodore diskettes. Send entries to Wayne Greene
c/o the poor house.
Charles Lord
c...@ecsvax.UUCP/BITNET
Bob Calbridge
[regarding a prior question regarding reading Commodore disks on a PC.]
> Almost no chance that you can read IBM diskettes in a Commodore disk drive.
> There's a better chance that you can write Commodore disks on an
> IBM. The reason for this is because the Commodore disk drive has the
> controller built into the disk drive, thereby making it a "smart" disk
> drive. "Smart" disk drives rarely provide operations other than
> read sector, write sector, format, etc. No low level interleave/sectoring
> commands.
This is not necessarily true. Under CP/M on the C-128 the operating
system takes direct control of the disk drive without using the
smart disk drive. In this manner the operating system can read or write
a number of different formats including Osborne and Kaypro.
I also have a program that can do an IBM format on the C-128. However,
the system still cannot read or write the IBM format.
This does suggest that a program could be written that would do the read/write
operations. I am not the one to undertake the project.
Best,
Bob
Art Weiss
I don't know of any such MS-DOS based program, but you can get Big Blue
Reader for the Commodore 128 which can handle MS-DOS disks. As far as I know
it works on 1571 drives only.
...Art
eric townsend
>commodore format floppies on an ibm pc? I want to download stuff
>to a IBM PC and then write them to floppies that commodore drives
>can read without getting someone else to download the stuff for me
>since I don't have a modem for the commodore.
There was an article in _Transactor_, back around the time that the
128's and 1571's came out, that dealt with using the mfm to read/write
off of a whole bunch o other formats...
[Five minutes later, our hero returns with an old copy of Transactor.]
Here we go:
"Table 1 is a summary of some of the common MFM disk formats.
The list is by no means complete, but can be used as a guide when
exploring various types of MFM disks. It is worth noting that many
other brands of coputers use formats similar to those outlined in the
table.
Table 1: Summary Of 1571 Supported CP/M MFM Disk Formats
Osborne DD
Slicer
Epson Euro (SD)
Epson QX-10 (SD)
Epson QX-101 (DD)
IBM CP/M-86 SS
IBM CP/M-86 DS
Kaypro II
Kaypro IV
Other MFM Formats:
IBM-PC-DOS
1 side; 8 sector
2 side; 8 sector
1 side; 9 sector
2 side; 9 sector
TRS-80 DD
TRS-80 SD"
There's basic and PAL source examples for reading these disks with an
explanitory article dealing with MFM itself...
Let's see... this is the January 87 issue, Vol7 Issue4. I really liked
Transactor when I used my C64 all the time. I wish somebody would
make a magazine like it for the UNIX-PC... Ah well...
--
Know Future
"The tao that can be said is not the everlasting Tao." -- Lao-Tzu
J. Eric Townsend ->uunet!nuchat!flatline!erict smail:511Parker#2,Hstn,Tx,77007
..!bellcore!tness1!/
ar...@pnet01.uucp
I'm surprised that this thread regarding Commodore drives and MS-DOS disks
has gone on this long. The fact is that the 1571 drive can handle MS-DOS disks
and is used by many people in conjunction with Big Blue Reader to read and
write to MS-DOS format disks.
Enough said.
...Art
Rick
> Enough said.
>
Oh, Art, which someone says "Enough said" it sounds to me like enough hasn't
been said. Actually, you are mostly correct, the 1571 drive can read those
disks as long as they are not formatted with an AT high density drive...1.2
megs, then you're outta luck.
Rick
Ross Ridge
>>Does anyone have any software that will read/write/diskcopy/filecopy
>>commodore format floppies on an ibm pc? I want to download stuff
>>to a IBM PC and then write them to floppies that commodore drives
>>can read without getting someone else to download the stuff for me
>>since I don't have a modem for the commodore.
respecitively). PC drives use the index hole, Commodore drives don't.
For this reason it would be unlikely that you could ever read in CBM disk
on a PC. However Commodore created the 1571 which has the ability to read
both types of disk formats, so the reverse could be done, ie. reading
a PC disk on a Commodore. There is programme called "Big Blue Reader" for
the 128 that will let you do this.
>I hope someone will provide the answer to this since I have often wanted to
>read disks formated on my IBM PC-AT on my 1571 drive, but have been
>unsuccessful. Is there a way to get this done? How must the IBM disk be
>formatted for the 1571 to read it? I have heard that disks formatted on the
>AT cannot be read by the 1571 no matter how they are formatted, is this
>correct?
>
96 tpi or quadruple density I'm not sure), and the 1571 can't read these
high capacity disks. However if you format and create 360k (IBM PC) format
disk on your IBM PC you can use Big Blue Reader to read that disk.
--
l/ {uunet!mnetor!lsuc,utgpu}!ncrcan!ziebmef!ross //
[OO] or just call me Ross for short... [oo]
-()- -()-
db 6502 assembly forever! //