different 1541's
aa...@cobequidnet.ns.ca.nospam
I notice that my two older 1541's have different labels:
1) Model 1541 made in taiwan serial # JA 1055945 with the turn around and
down front door :>
2) Model vic-1541 made in Japan serial # 2058978 (no letters at beginning)
with snap directly down front door.
In all ways except the front door, externally they are identical.
I was aware of the door differences, but had not noticed until last night
that one was called a vic-1541. Since the 1540 is for the vic 20, the
vic-1541 is for the....?
John Elliott
BTW I noticed that the serial numbers for two of my 1571's are exactly
sequential. What are the odds?
BTW#2: The Taiwan label says Taiwan R.O.C. Taiwan is the other name of
Formosa. ROC to me means Republic of (C)Korea
HLR
> that one was called a vic-1541. Since the 1540 is for the vic 20, the
> vic-1541 is for the....?
Its used with both the vic20 and the c64.
Thats what the manual saids also.
--
Med Venlig Hilsen / Best Regards
Kenneth
Spiro Trikaliotis
aa...@cobequidnet.ns.ca.nospam schrieb in Nachricht
<7prkub$4sc$3...@News.Dal.Ca>...
>Formosa. ROC to me means Republic of (C)Korea
Republic of China.
Spiro.
Christopher A. King
>I notice that my two older 1541's have different labels:
>1) Model 1541 made in taiwan serial # JA 1055945 with the turn around and
>down front door :>
This is the "Newtronics" version of the 1541.
>2) Model vic-1541 made in Japan serial # 2058978 (no letters at beginning)
>with snap directly down front door.
This is the "Alps" version of the 1541.
>In all ways except the front door, externally they are identical.
>I was aware of the door differences, but had not noticed until last night
>that one was called a vic-1541. Since the 1540 is for the vic 20, the
>vic-1541 is for the....?
According to my Sams service information, the 1540 and the VIC-1541 are
one in the same. The 1541 is the "Alps" version, and the 1542 is the
"Newtronics" version. The VIC-1541, I think, also has a longer controller
board inside.
When we bought our first C-64 and 1541 back in early 1984, our 1541 was
a brown Alps unit, but the manual that came with it was the white/silver
"VIC-1541" book, with the white drive on the cover. Perhaps Commodore
was in transition from the white to the brown drives (to match the new
C-64) at this time, but had a surplus of the old user's manuals left.
The white VIC-1541 units seem to be the rarest of them all. I have one
in really good, unmodified condition, and it works like a champ (I got
it to match my VIC-20). The rest of my 1541s are a mixture of the "Alps"
and "Newtronics" units. I prefer the "Alps" units myself; they seem to
have the simplest and easiest to maintain drive mechanics -- and they
seem to hold up better as well; if I ever get a 1541 home from the thrift
store that's out of whack, it's usually a "Newtronics" unit (but they're
fine once they get realigned).
>BTW I noticed that the serial numbers for two of my 1571's are exactly
>sequential. What are the odds?
Probably not *too* high, if both were purchased from the same store at
the same time or about the same time, and they stayed together (perhaps
as part of a complete C-128 system) through the years. But definitely
unusual and a curiosity at the very least...
To me, 1541s with consecutive serials would be a lot more bizarre, since
most folks back before the C-128 came out seemed to buy a C-64 and a 1541,
just one of each, and mabye the monitor if they didn't hook it up to a
television.
>BTW#2: The Taiwan label says Taiwan R.O.C. Taiwan is the other name of
>Formosa. ROC to me means Republic of (C)Korea
I'm sure that ROC is a deliberate dig at the mainland folks on the part
of the Taiwanese. Another interesting aspect of this are the service
manuals of shortwave receivers made in the Pacific rim. Radios made in
Taiwan will make no mention of Radio Beijing or China Radio International
in any included station/frequency guides and, likewise, radios manufactured
in China omit The Voice Of Free China in theirs.
C.K.
Schneider
>BTW I noticed that the serial numbers for two of my 1571's are exactly
>sequential. What are the odds?
I have two sets of two Vic 1541's that have sequential serial numbers.And
alot of 1541's that are a few no's off. They all came from a school.
HLR
>one in the same. The 1541 is the "Alps" version, and the 1542 is the
>"Newtronics" version. The VIC-1541, I think, also has a longer controller
>board inside.
1542? I have never heard of that. Dont you mean 1541-2 ?
Dave R.
>1542? I have never heard of that. Dont you mean 1541-2 ?
1542 is the unofficial model # of the 1541 with the short-board Newtronics
controller. I believe that's the number on the controller. The case still
says 1541. The 1541-II is a whole 'nother beastie.
::::: Dave Ross / Dr. Watson "Yesterday's technology
:: === wat...@enteract.com today...for a better
:: === tomorrow!"
::::: http://www.enteract.com/~watson
John Iannetta
"BTW I noticed that the serial numbers for two of my 1571's are exactly
sequential. What are the odds?".
If N units were sold, and the serial numbers were issued (serially)
starting with 1, the odds against two consecutive numbers are (N/2-1):1. That
is purely mathematical, of course. Scenarios such as the one that Christopher
A. King mentioned would change that. The Cereal number on my 1571 is:
OATMEAL 7-3421.
--
123 456
789 *0#
If you see a telephone keypad above, you're probably using a Commodore 64.
Martijn
aa...@cobequidnet.ns.ca.nospam wrote in article
<7prkub$4sc$3...@News.Dal.Ca>...
>
> I notice that my two older 1541's have different labels:
>
> 1) Model 1541 made in taiwan serial # JA 1055945 with the turn around and
> down front door :>
>
> 2) Model vic-1541 made in Japan serial # 2058978 (no letters at
beginning)
> with snap directly down front door.
>
> In all ways except the front door, externally they are identical.
>
> I was aware of the door differences, but had not noticed until last night
> that one was called a vic-1541. Since the 1540 is for the vic 20, the
> vic-1541 is for the....?
>
> John Elliott
> BTW I noticed that the serial numbers for two of my 1571's are exactly
> sequential. What are the odds?
> BTW#2: The Taiwan label says Taiwan R.O.C. Taiwan is the other name of
> Formosa. ROC to me means Republic of (C)Korea
>
>
Here in Europe I found beside the brown model of the 1541-1 also
a white model. Also with snap and turn around door.
I haven't looked of which origin they are... If anyone is interested I will
take
a look in my basement!
Martijn.
Martijn van Buul
> Here in Europe I found beside the brown model of the 1541-1 also
> a white model. Also with snap and turn around door.
Don't you mean the 1541c ?
--
Martijn van Buul - Pi...@dohd.cx - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/
Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333
Christopher A. King
says...
>1542? I have never heard of that. Dont you mean 1541-2 ?
I never had, either, until I got the Sams book for servicing the 1541
drives. The call the "Newtronics" style drive the 1542. For many
years, I had just thought that they swapped out the drive mechanics
and let it go at that.
You do make a good point here, though -- I stopped at this drive, and
did not mention the 1541C or the 1541-II. I don't own any of these, so
I am not sure of the differences between the 1541C and the older "1541"
drives (the 1541-II is quite different all the way around). But the
original poster was talking about the differences between the earliest
models, so I kind of had my mind stuck on those, I guess...
C.K.
Cameron Kaiser
>>1542? I have never heard of that. Dont you mean 1541-2 ?
>1542 is the unofficial model # of the 1541 with the short-board Newtronics
>controller. I believe that's the number on the controller. The case still
>says 1541. The 1541-II is a whole 'nother beastie.
But do note there really *is* a 1542, a charcoal-grey 1541 intended for
the 264 series. It was never released, of course. Commodore called the
Newtronics version the 1541, also.
http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ckb/secret/periph.html
--
Cameron Kaiser * cka...@stockholm.ptloma.edu * posting with a Commodore 128
-- supporting the Commodore 64 and 128: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/cwi/ --
personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/
Ben Hardy
<aa...@cobequidnet.ns.ca.nospam> wrote in message
news:7prkub$4sc$3...@News.Dal.Ca...
>
> I notice that my two older 1541's have different labels:
>
> 1) Model 1541 made in taiwan serial # JA 1055945 with the turn around and
> down front door :>
>
> 2) Model vic-1541 made in Japan serial # 2058978 (no letters at beginning)
> with snap directly down front door.
>
> In all ways except the front door, externally they are identical.
>
> I was aware of the door differences, but had not noticed until last night
> that one was called a vic-1541. Since the 1540 is for the vic 20, the
> vic-1541 is for the....?
BH> The 1001 is for the PET's the 1540 is for the VIC20 and the 1541 is for
the C64/128
>
> John Elliott
> BTW I noticed that the serial numbers for two of my 1571's are exactly
> sequential. What are the odds?
> BTW#2: The Taiwan label says Taiwan R.O.C. Taiwan is the other name of
> Formosa. ROC to me means Republic of (C)Korea
>
BH>if you bourght them at the same time then they probaly were from the same
BH>batch! (explaning the idetical serial no's) if they were aquired at
difrent times
BH>then that is a very big conidence!!!
Ben Hardy
HLR <hlr....@nospam.get2net.dk> wrote in message
news:25kw3.942$di5....@news.get2net.dk...
> >According to my Sams service information, the 1540 and the VIC-1541 are
> >one in the same. The 1541 is the "Alps" version, and the 1542 is the
> >"Newtronics" version. The VIC-1541, I think, also has a longer
controller
> >board inside.
>
>
it, but
I know somone who has a 1541-III (that looks like a 1541) that reads both
side of the disk,
I don't think it was a big seller as the 1571 came out soon after for the
C64/128 and
Commodore discotinued it but the 1541-III did work with the VIC20 unlike the
1571 so why
they aren't very common is a mystrey to me? (this is the only one I have
ever seen!) I think
Commodore named most items sevral times over with new revisions/alterations
and logos
eg the 1540 and 1541 are the same also you get the Alps and Newtronics
1541's also there
is the C64 and C64c, Teachers PET, also the rare VIC64 in PET style case
with built in monitor
it apears for every Commodore product there are other names/logos and a hand
full of rare
(expensive) prototypes like the C65
Ben Hardy
HLR
> did not mention the 1541C or the 1541-II. I don't own any of these, so
> I am not sure of the differences between the 1541C and the older "1541"
> drives (the 1541-II is quite different all the way around). But the
> original poster was talking about the differences between the earliest
> models, so I kind of had my mind stuck on those, I guess...
Its ok, I dont think I actually have read the first poster.
If I have I cant remember, anyways. :)
Its so damn hard to remember all when you try to read all
of the posts on this newsgroup.
Thorsten Fischer
Martijn van Buul <pino+com...@dohd.cx> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
slrn7s4ppb.qt1.p...@mud.stack.nl...
> It occurred to me that Martijn wrote in comp.sys.cbm:
>
> > Here in Europe I found beside the brown model of the 1541-1 also
> > a white model. Also with snap and turn around door.
>
> Don't you mean the 1541c ?
No, there was indeed a white 1541. I'm sure because I have one for sale :-)
Any offers are welcome. BTW: The device is in perfect working order.
Cheers,
Thorsten
Jim MacKenzie
Ben Hardy <BenH...@retro76.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7puu0c$ma1$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I know somone who has a 1541-III (that looks like a 1541) that reads both
> side of the disk,
> I don't think it was a big seller as the 1571 came out soon after for the
> C64/128 and
> Commodore discotinued it
That would be weird. The 1571 came out long before the 1541-II did. I
think it even came out before the 1541C did. Commodore was still selling
brown-cased Newtronics 1541s. (I worked at a Commodore dealer at the time.)
Jim
Kristian Whawell
talking about white 1541s, I have one with a white front with alps mec and a
shorter controller board too! I have 2 drives, one has the c= commodore
some stripes then 1541 at the right end of the label, the letters are stuck
proud of the label making the c= commodore and 1541 tactile!
the other drive just has the c= at the left side no stripes and then
commodore 1541 at the right, the commodore is above the 1541 bit.
the label is perfectly smooth on this drive.
on the back, of the brown one with the first label I mentioned, it says
vic1541 and gives a serial number, which I have forgotten, and on the other
one, the white one, it says commodore 1541.
what is the difference, and why does the white drive automatically reset the
heads on startup and make a rachiting sound every time it's started up.
I noticed that if I pull the heads out all the way and then power up the
drive, it automatically returns them to the zero stop, the brown one leves
them where they are and spins the spindle and nothing more.
other thing I noticed is the white one is the noisiest disk drive I ever
heard!
I went up stairs the other day whilst formatting a disk and I was about 100+
yards away from it and I could hear it clicking steadily as I looked out of
the bathroom windows
the brown one is unaudable unless you stick your ear right over the drive's
case and listen out for the clicks.
one last thing, I can format high density disks as dd disks with the brown
one but not the white one!
I personally like the brown over the white one any day.
I would personally like to get rid of the white drive and get a 1571 and if
I can find one I would like to get a 1581, but in the uk, I would think
CMd's charges would be too high!
does anyone want a white 1541 in there collection of stuff?
I bought it for £20.00 with a breadbox c64 some time ago now but upon
finding out it wouldn't format my hd disks, I never used it since!
if anyone wants it, let me know either here or at
Kris...@Kwhawell.freeserve.co.u,k
note, the drive works fine on standard dd disks!
no allignment problems I fixed them some time back!
Ben Hardy
range! I think the 1541-III was a experimental drive for the VIC20
and worked with the later computers to. I am unsure as to when it
was sold but I recall the 1571 ariving soon (leading me to belive
it underwent a major upgrade!) It came from a second hand
store brand new but no wraping and that it was a later 1541, only
£35 if I recall corectaly. later when we found it read both sides of
the disk was a suprise. I supose that it was sold before 1541-II
but that would have also existed as a prototype to at the time
explaning the name 1541-III.
Ben Hardy :)
Jim MacKenzie <j...@dusykbarlow.sk.ca> wrote in message
news:37c43...@204.83.142.253...
Radioactive Warrior
...
>what is the difference, and why does the white drive automatically reset the
>heads on startup and make a rachiting sound every time it's started up.
This sounds like a 1541C. I have only come across one of these drives in
all my travels, ironicly it was the first C= disk drive I ever owned.
The 1541C was released a few ways:
- Track-one sensor is in place, ROM 251968-01 (This is a 16kB rom that
has code to detect the track-one sensor), and J3 has been cut.
. This 1541C will NEVER head-knock (see below).
. You can tell this drive right off as it will never head-knock when a
format command is issued.
. The only drawback I have noticed is the sensor takes the otherwise
unused 0-bit of $1801 thus this type of drive cannot be used with a
parallel cable (the cable needs bits 0-7 of $1801).
. For some reason, this drive is rare. My 1541C came with J3 uncut as
did yours (Kristian Whawell). If anyone knows why C= forgot or chose
not to cut J3, please elaborate.
- Track-one sensor may or may not be in place, ROM 251968-01, and jumper
J3 (near the long white "P3" connector) has not been cut.
. This 1541C will head-knock EVERY time the drive does a cold-reset!
. J3 keeps bit-0, $1801 low and the ROM steps 40 or 45 tracks down (for
worse case head position) or until bit-0 goes high. If bit-0 were to
go high when the heads were anywhere else, the drive would think it
was at track-one and all sorts of weird things would happen.
. If the track-one sensor is in place, cutting J3 will allow the ROM to
see the sensor and the heads will NEVER head-knock but will reliably
locate to track one after a cold-reset. I have even modified an old
1541 to do this as well as installed a track-one sensor in my 1541-II
with a copy of the -01 ROM, works like a charm.
- Track-one sensor may or may not be in place, ROM 251968-02 (or -03)
the same ROM used in the 1541-II drives, J3 is not cut.
. This 1541C will act the same as the old 1541's as the -02 and -03 ROM's
have the track-1 sensor code removed. The same goes for the 1541-II.
...
>other thing I noticed is the white one is the noisiest disk drive I ever
>heard!
This is common among the Newtronics mechs used in the 1541C and is not an
issue when the track-one sensor is used, as the stepper never contacts the
0-stop tange. Even so, I have heard old 1541's head-knock louder than
others. The exact position of the 0-stop is critical within 1/100th of an
inch when attempting to subdue head-knock noise.
...
>I personally like the brown over the white one any day.
>I would personally like to get rid of the white drive and get a 1571 and if
...
I would take a 1541C over any other drive including the 1571. Indeed
personal preference but I have smacked my 1541C drive around for many
years longer than other drives have lasted me and it refuses to die.
To that end, yes I would trade you but I am in Palm Beach, FL. so no
help there...
poof-
Zak
Nicolas Welte
> . For some reason, this drive is rare. My 1541C came with J3 uncut as
> did yours (Kristian Whawell). If anyone knows why C= forgot or chose
> not to cut J3, please elaborate.
Simple: controller boards and drive mechanism were manufactured
independently. Boards were manufactured with J3 in place, and it
should've been cut in the final assembly step depending on what drive
mechanism was used. Obviously this proved to be to expensive ;-)
> - Track-one sensor may or may not be in place, ROM 251968-02 (or -03)
> the same ROM used in the 1541-II drives, J3 is not cut.
> . This 1541C will act the same as the old 1541's as the -02 and -03 ROM's
> have the track-1 sensor code removed. The same goes for the 1541-II.
251968-02 still has the track 1 sensor code there. It's now running fine
in my 1541C, J3 cut, Newtronics drive with sensor. I got the drive with
J3 closed and the -01 ROM. If interested, download it from funet, I
uploaded it a while ago. This ROM has several bugfixes over the
251968-01 ROM, the 03 version seems to be the same with just the track 1
sensor code removed.
Nicolas
Jim MacKenzie
Nicolas Welte <we...@chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote in message
news:37C814...@chemie.uni-konstanz.de...
> 251968-02 still has the track 1 sensor code there. It's now running fine
> in my 1541C, J3 cut, Newtronics drive with sensor. I got the drive with
> J3 closed and the -01 ROM. If interested, download it from funet, I
> uploaded it a while ago. This ROM has several bugfixes over the
> 251968-01 ROM, the 03 version seems to be the same with just the track 1
> sensor code removed.
How do you tell if the sensor is there?
I have one of the last 1541 brown-case drives (Newtronics drive; 1541C
board). And who knows? I can see picking up a cheap 1541C, too. :)
Jim
Radioactive Warrior
...
>How do you tell if the sensor is there?
>
>I have one of the last 1541 brown-case drives (Newtronics drive; 1541C
>board). And who knows? I can see picking up a cheap 1541C, too. :)
>
>Jim
Once you know what to look for you can see it looking through the front
slot with a flashlight. Best bet to find it first by removing the top
of the drive and inspect the mech right at the head assembly. Look for
an opti-sensor just behind the round stepper motor band-pully drive
wheel. The head assembly has a plastic arm that slides in between the
opti-sensor when the head is at track one. If the sensor is not there
you will see a two-hole mounting spot on the mech frame.
My 1541C has three wires running from the sensor to P3: (violet/pin4,
white/pin5, and blue/pin6)
--
Zak.
Nicolas Welte
> How do you tell if the sensor is there?
Just look ;-) There are also three additional cables on the longest
drive mech connector, but I forgot the exact location. So far I only
heard of Newtronics drive with the sensor, the Alps drives seem to be
sensor-less.
> I have one of the last 1541 brown-case drives (Newtronics drive; 1541C
> board).
Strange, I have another 1541C with the 1541A board. Maybe they mixed
some parts between our drives? BTW, this drive also has the sensor, but
this old board can't make use of it.
Nicolas
Kristian Whawell
this time with another 1541 c question.
if this white drive is what you guys say it is,
did the 1541 c also have the alps mech?
if mine is the c version, it has the alps mech and not the newtronics one
as
you guys seem to suggest.
I turned it on tonight and did some experiments.
here's what I discovered,
upon turning on the drive, it resets the heads, causing knocking,
turning the commodore on resets it so it knocks again,
formatting a disk causes it to knock as well.
so, what is this weerd drive?
any one want to hear the sound?
let me know, I'll sample it turning on.
I know I can't post it here, but can any one help better with a sound
sample?
Jim MacKenzie
> > I have one of the last 1541 brown-case drives (Newtronics drive; 1541C
> > board).
>
> Strange, I have another 1541C with the 1541A board. Maybe they mixed
> some parts between our drives? BTW, this drive also has the sensor, but
> this old board can't make use of it.
The brown-cased C64 that I got with that drive (which was purchased new on
the same day as the drive) has a C64C motherboard in it, too.
Jim
Nicolas Welte
>
> hi all you 1541 technitions out there, I'm back again,
> this time with another 1541 c question.
> if this white drive is what you guys say it is,
> did the 1541 c also have the alps mech?
Some drives had this mech, yes. Here in Germany they mostly came with
the Newtronics mech, but some also had the Alps mech.
Nicolas
Joe Forster/STA
turn your drive on. It's just perfectly normal for a 1541C
drive that doesn't have the sensor installed...
Like I've had a drive like that all my life... ;-) And, you
know, once the rotating motor and once the head was replaced
in it so it _seems_ no to put that much wear on the
mechanics, after all.
Another drawback is that, since the DOS in it _is_ patched
to make use of the sensor, you can't make a parallel cable
for this drive. But, since the sensor is not there, you
can't make use of the "no weird noises" feature either...
Oh, but how I _love_ that drive anyway...! 8-)
Joe Forster/STA
sta@c64,org
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