Commodore 16 PSU
Brian Lund
But, i couldn't find the powersupply so can anyone tell me (i have been
googling without success) what voltage (and amperage if possible) it
requires, so i can test it?
Also can anyone tell me if i it is compatible with any regular C64/128
hardware?
I have a 1541-II, a 1571 and a datasette...
Oh and i would like to know the pinouts for the joystick ports of the C16
aswell, although i have no software for it yet :)
I found two C64 G's too, haven't yet decided if i will worry about saving
any of them yet, one is the dark-brown one, the other is light-grey... The
dark coloured is missing one button and the top cover, the light-grey is
missing some buttons but seems to be in perfect condition else but that - I
guess i could switch some buttons between the two but it would look stupid
with two different colours :)
Brian
Riccardo Rubini
> So i found a Commodore 16 today, and saved it from the butcher... :)
killer, man.
> But, i couldn't find the powersupply so can anyone tell me (i have
> been googling without success) what voltage (and amperage if
> possible) it requires, so i can test it?
All you need is a common 9VAC, 1.0A power supply.
> Also can anyone tell me if i it is compatible with any regular C64/128
> hardware?
> I have a 1541-II, a 1571 and a datasette...
You will have no bad experiences using a 1541-II, 1571 or any other IEC
serial drive. The C64/C128 datasette is compatible, but you need an adapter,
male edge to mini-din.
> Oh and i would like to know the pinouts for the joystick ports of the
> C16 aswell, although i have no software for it yet :)
There's no problem, just give a look at the Hardware book :
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/userinput/joystickc16.html
> I found two C64 G's too, haven't yet decided if i will worry about
> saving any of them yet, one is the dark-brown one, the other is
> light-grey... The dark coloured is missing one button and the top
> cover, the light-grey is missing some buttons but seems to be in
> perfect condition else but that - I guess i could switch some buttons
> between the two but it would look stupid with two different colours :)
Hmmm .... I suggest you to keep the (white) C64G: is not very common and
worth an extra buck against a normal C64.
Riccardo
Brian Lund
>
> killer, man.
Yeah, i didn't take me long to decide wether to take it or not ;)
(Not taking it didn't come to my mind ;))
> > But, i couldn't find the powersupply so can anyone tell me (i have
> > been googling without success) what voltage (and amperage if
> > possible) it requires, so i can test it?
>
> All you need is a common 9VAC, 1.0A power supply.
Great! I have a variable (switchable) AC powersupply, but i only delivers
500 mA, but i will give it a try, else i have lots of transformators :)
> > Also can anyone tell me if i it is compatible with any regular C64/128
> > hardware?
> > I have a 1541-II, a 1571 and a datasette...
>
> You will have no bad experiences using a 1541-II, 1571 or any other IEC
> serial drive. The C64/C128 datasette is compatible, but you need an
adapter,
> male edge to mini-din.
Wow, this sounds even better! Didn't think the 1571 nor the datasette would
work :)
> > Oh and i would like to know the pinouts for the joystick ports of the
> > C16 aswell, although i have no software for it yet :)
>
> There's no problem, just give a look at the Hardware book :
>
> http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/userinput/joystickc16.html
I figured they were compatible, but with different connectors :)
Thanks for the link!
> > I found two C64 G's too, haven't yet decided if i will worry about
> > saving any of them yet, one is the dark-brown one, the other is
> > light-grey... The dark coloured is missing one button and the top
> > cover, the light-grey is missing some buttons but seems to be in
> > perfect condition else but that - I guess i could switch some buttons
> > between the two but it would look stupid with two different colours :)
>
> Hmmm .... I suggest you to keep the (white) C64G: is not very common and
> worth an extra buck against a normal C64.
What about the C64G with brown keys? Well, it looks to be out of order, so
i'll leave it i guess :)
Brian
Brian Lund
> > been googling without success) what voltage (and amperage if
> > possible) it requires, so i can test it?
>
> All you need is a common 9VAC, 1.0A power supply.
So, i had an old C64 PSU laying around (I have only one C64 atm. but two
PSUs)... Knowing there was 9VAC in it i cut off the plug, located the 9VAC
wires and soldered on a plug that fits the C16...
Put in the plug and turned it on, nothing happened...
It turns out the fuse was blown, now i just have to see if i have any 1,5A
glas-fuses laying around somewhere...
Blown fuse... That's probably why it was thrown out by it's former owner :)
Brian
Brian Lund
>
> So, i had an old C64 PSU laying around (I have only one C64 atm. but two
> PSUs)... Knowing there was 9VAC in it i cut off the plug, located the 9VAC
> wires and soldered on a plug that fits the C16...
>
> Put in the plug and turned it on, nothing happened...
>
> It turns out the fuse was blown, now i just have to see if i have any 1,5A
> glas-fuses laying around somewhere...
> Blown fuse... That's probably why it was thrown out by it's former owner
:)
At it again...
I found a similar fuse, but a 2A model instead of 1,5A...
This time i connected the RF output to the TV, connected the power plug and
turned it on;
The TV turned black for a second or two, the LED was lighting and then it
went out... The fuse blew! - So now i both have to figure out whats wrong,
and where to get more fuses, as it was the last i have ;)
Brian
RaYzor
"Riccardo Rubini" <rub...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:VzI1c.60049$gk.25...@news3.tin.it...
> Brian Lund wrote:
> > So i found a Commodore 16 today, and saved it from the butcher... :)
>
> killer, man.
>
> > But, i couldn't find the powersupply so can anyone tell me (i have
> > been googling without success) what voltage (and amperage if
> > possible) it requires, so i can test it?
>
> All you need is a common 9VAC, 1.0A power supply.
>
To clear this up:
Its 9VDC 1 amp
9 Volts DC @ 1 amp
Thats DC not AC
At least that is what the two I own have. ANd thats whats stated on the
underside of the machine.
RaYzor
Riccardo Rubini
> To clear this up:
> Its 9VDC 1 amp
>
> 9 Volts DC @ 1 amp
>
> Thats DC not AC
>
> At least that is what the two I own have. ANd thats whats stated on
> the underside of the machine.
> RaYzor
You're right, RaYzor, my mistake. My apologises to Brian. It's 9 VDC @ 1
amp. Also, it's important to use the correct polarity. Facing the computer's
power supply plug, the pin is negative and the outside shell is positive, of
course the supply plug shall reflect this.
Riccardo
Riccardo Rubini
> I found a similar fuse, but a 2A model instead of 1,5A...
> This time i connected the RF output to the TV, connected the power
> plug and turned it on;
Brian, there's a problem. I made a mistake and wrote 9VAC instead of 9VDC
:-(
I'm sorry, I should have read again what I did write. You actually need a DC
supply, not an AC one. Also, be sure to check the polarity, negative at the
centre, positive on the outside.
As for the fuses, since it was my mistake, if you can't find another one
tell me and I will send you one via snail mail :-)
Riccardo
Markco
run a bit over one amp but NOT low amperage. a .5 amp will start cooking
things where 1 amp is required. 9 vdc 1 amp or a bit higher will work. But
take note LOW amperage will COOK components!!!
Take care
"Riccardo Rubini" <rub...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:KJO1c.62077$gk.26...@news3.tin.it...
Tim Knight
Since when will low amperage cook components? I think you had better take a
look at Ohm's Law again..........
ID
Sam Gillett
"Tim Knight" wrote ...
> Since when will low amperage cook components? I think you had better take
> a look at Ohm's Law again..........
If a power supply does not have a high enough rating, the voltage output will
sag far below what is desired. Don't know exactly why, but some of the chips
in CBM 8-bit machines will go bad if not enough voltage is supplied. Or, at
least that is what I have read in this newsgroup time after time.
--
Best regards,
Sam Gillett
Out of my mind. Back in 5 minutes!
Rod Gasson
"Markco" <nospam*markc...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:NRP1c.13811$YN5....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> If you use an amperage lower than 1 amp thank god the fuse is there. You
can
> run a bit over one amp but NOT low amperage. a .5 amp will start cooking
> things where 1 amp is required. 9 vdc 1 amp or a bit higher will work. But
> take note LOW amperage will COOK components!!!
Utter bullshit. (Unless you've somehow managed to break Ohms Law). Hmm, I
don't suppose you managed to break the laws of gravity as well did you?.
:-)
Cheers
Rod
Rod Gasson
"Sam Gillett" <samgi...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:abR1c.40382$6K.3...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> "Tim Knight" wrote ...
>
> > Since when will low amperage cook components? I think you had better
take
> > a look at Ohm's Law again..........
>
> If a power supply does not have a high enough rating, the voltage output
will
> sag far below what is desired.
True.
> Don't know exactly why, but some of the chips
> in CBM 8-bit machines will go bad if not enough voltage is supplied.
Crap. The chips in CBM machines don't behave any differently than any other
chips.
> Or, at least that is what I have read in this newsgroup time after time.
Just 'cos you read something in the news groups (or web pages) doesn't make
it true.
Cheers
Rod
Brian Lund
> > This time i connected the RF output to the TV, connected the power
> > plug and turned it on;
>
> Brian, there's a problem. I made a mistake and wrote 9VAC instead of 9VDC
> :-(
>
> I'm sorry, I should have read again what I did write. You actually need a
DC
> supply, not an AC one. Also, be sure to check the polarity, negative at
the
> centre, positive on the outside.
I don't hope i harmed anything inside it ;(
The fuse burnt pretty fast though, so guess it is still ok :)
> As for the fuses, since it was my mistake, if you can't find another one
> tell me and I will send you one via snail mail :-)
Well... I live in Denmark, Rubini doesn't sound quite danish, so you have to
ship international ;)
But i think i can find some elsewhere...
Brian
Riccardo Rubini
> I don't hope i harmed anything inside it ;(
I too hope so.
> The fuse burnt pretty fast though, so guess it is still ok :)
Well, the fuse is there for this reason, thank God.
>> As for the fuses, since it was my mistake, if you can't find another
>> one tell me and I will send you one via snail mail :-)
>
> Well... I live in Denmark, Rubini doesn't sound quite danish, so you
> have to ship international ;)
Hehe, don't worry, My mistake, and sending a couple of fuses to Denmark
isn't expensive, I can afford it. Look around, if you don't find any, I'll
supply it to you via priority mail :-)
Riccardo
Brian Lund
> >
>
> To clear this up:
> Its 9VDC 1 amp
>
> 9 Volts DC @ 1 amp
>
> Thats DC not AC
So far so good, i have some "unregulated" powersupplies around i think, can
i use one of these?
What i mean with unregulated is those who only rectify and regulate to 9V,
but without capacitors, so you will actually have 9VDC riplle...?
Brian
Agemixer
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Sam Gillett wrote:
> "Tim Knight" wrote ...
>
> > Since when will low amperage cook components? I think you had better take
> > a look at Ohm's Law again..........
>
> If a power supply does not have a high enough rating, the voltage
> output will sag far below what is desired. Don't know exactly why, but
> some of the chips in CBM 8-bit machines will go bad if not enough
> voltage is supplied. Or, at least that is what I have read in this
> newsgroup time after time.
A power supply that can give only 0.5 Amps when 1 Amp is required (by the
load on the Commodore side), usually runs the PSU hotter and may break the
components inside the PSU, which may cause an output voltage higher than
5V if the regulator is blown.
For ICs in the C= side, a lower current available for an IC chip that is
required, may cause locks and other trouble, the complex IC logic (and
many other active components) follow semiconductor parameters (not
Ohm's law) like different delays, voltage drops, maximum reverse
voltages, feedback circuitry timings, (among many others) that in certain
condition may cause a dangerous states, like oscillating feedback
circuitrys or so, overheating the particular circuitry in microseconds. A
reverse current on a power loss (from some capacitor etc. inside the C= )
kills, rather than a single PSU. Please note that almost every IC
operating current is ensured with a small capacitors (a brown "pill" next
to each chip) for times of a maximum loads. The chips inside C= are not
supposed to fail in a single cycle @ 1 Mhz (a microsecond) :)
--
Agemixer/Skalaria - "First run, then load."
email: age...@japo.fi pass: "C64 mailinki" to the Subject: line
Spam filter is on
Brian Lund
>
can
> i use one of these?
>
> What i mean with unregulated is those who only rectify and regulate to 9V,
> but without capacitors, so you will actually have 9VDC riplle...?
While i'm at it i could as well take the 9 VAC of my C64 brick (which i got
the power from) and put on some diodes, a 7809 and a capacitor :)
Brian
Brian Lund
>
> I too hope so.
Well... I found a 1,6A fuse, it was shorter than the standard fuse, so i
took the endcaps of the old fuse, put in some aluminium foil and put it on
the end of the new fuse to make it longer... It works!
Well, i made a circuit to rectify and regulate the 9VAC from the C64 PSU, i
took a rectifier bridge, a LM317 and what else is needed :)
Hooked up the C16 with my 1571 diskdrive... I turned the mashine on, the
screen turns black with a horizontally running flicker :/
The diskdrive loads on power-on and reset of the C16, so i guess at least
the CPU/ROM are still ok...
I tried typing LOAD "$",8 but nothing happened on the diskdrive, is there
another way for loading on the C16?
For now i hope it's only the RF modulator that's damaged :(
> >> As for the fuses, since it was my mistake, if you can't find another
> >> one tell me and I will send you one via snail mail :-)
> >
> > Well... I live in Denmark, Rubini doesn't sound quite danish, so you
> > have to ship international ;)
>
> Hehe, don't worry, My mistake, and sending a couple of fuses to Denmark
> isn't expensive, I can afford it. Look around, if you don't find any, I'll
> supply it to you via priority mail :-)
Well it seems i don't need the fuses no more... Now i just need spareparts
;(
Brian
Sam Gillett
"Brian Lund" wrote ...
> > As for the fuses, since it was my mistake, if you can't find another one
> > tell me and I will send you one via snail mail :-)
>
> Well... I live in Denmark, Rubini doesn't sound quite danish, so you have
> to ship international ;)
>
> But i think i can find some elsewhere...
If you don't have an electronics supply shop near you, perhaps you could find
the fuse at an auto supply shop.
--
Best regards,
Sam Gillett
UFO's are real.
It's the Air Force that doesn't exist!
Riccardo Rubini
> Hooked up the C16 with my 1571 diskdrive... I turned the mashine on,
> the screen turns black with a horizontally running flicker :/
Uhm, doesn't sound good. Horizontally running flicker? Can you take a
picture with a camera, webcam or such?
> The diskdrive loads on power-on and reset of the C16, so i guess at
> least the CPU/ROM are still ok...
Hmm, maybe, but if the TED chip is dead, you're in serious trouble...
> I tried typing LOAD "$",8 but nothing happened on the diskdrive, is
> there another way for loading on the C16?
Type DIRECTORY, but I don't think you'll notice any difference.
> For now i hope it's only the RF modulator that's damaged :(
I think it's something else than the RF modulator, unfortunately.
>> Hehe, don't worry, My mistake, and sending a couple of fuses to
>> Denmark isn't expensive, I can afford it. Look around, if you don't
>> find any, I'll supply it to you via priority mail :-)
>
> Well it seems i don't need the fuses no more... Now i just need
> spareparts ;(
If you need a PLA or an EPROM, I think I can help you out. Otherwise, I
can't help :-(
Do you have another C16 ( or +4 ) around, or a friend who owns one?
Riccardo
Rod Gasson
"Brian Lund" <geronimo@-ABCDE-mobilixnet.dk> wrote in message
news:4048863b$0$95044$edfa...@dread11.news.tele.dk...
You appear to be confusing unregulated with unfiltered. An unfiltered
supply doesn't have the smoothing capacitors, an unregulated supply is one
that doesn't use any form of voltage regulation. I've never seen a
regulated supply that doesn't have the filter/smoothing capacitors.
An unregulated/unfiltered supply is little more than an AC transformer anbd
a couple of diodes (half wave rectification), or 4 diodes (full wave
rectification). This type of supply has a "nominal" voltage output that
requires a specific load to achieve the nominated voltage. IE, a 12v
unregulated supply will measure up to 18volts under no load conditions, and
can drop down to about 9volts under heavy load.. in other words they need a
moderate load in order to maintain their nominated voltage. This can cause
major problems if the power rating of the supply doesn't match the power
requirements of the device being driven. Example, if the device being driven
requires (say) 12v at 1amp, then a 12v/1amp unregulated supply will work
fine, BUT, this same device used with a 12v/2amp unregulated supply will
suffer a very short life, because the "nominal" voltage will be up near
15-16volts, which is too high for many IC's.
conversely, trying to use a 12v/500ma supply with this same device will only
produce about 10v, and this will cause instability with some logic chips.
In contrast, a 12v regulated supply will produce a constant 12v supply,
regardless of the load, as long as the supply itself meets the minimum
current requirements of the device that it is used with.
An unfiltered supply will never produce a constant voltage under any
conditions - The voltage will continually 'swing' between near zero to the
maximum voltage possible under any given load. These types of supplys should
never be used with digital electronic equipment under any circumstances.
Hopefully someone will find this information useful.
Regards
Rod
Brian Lund
> can
> > i use one of these?
> >
> > What i mean with unregulated is those who only rectify and regulate to
9V,
> > but without capacitors, so you will actually have 9VDC riplle...?
>
> You appear to be confusing unregulated with unfiltered. An unfiltered
> supply doesn't have the smoothing capacitors, an unregulated supply is one
> that doesn't use any form of voltage regulation. I've never seen a
> regulated supply that doesn't have the filter/smoothing capacitors.
I am not confusing anything ;)
I have some powerbricks who say f.ex. "9V unregulated", i believe they have
some sort of regulation, but i don't know...
> An unregulated/unfiltered supply is little more than an AC transformer
anbd
> a couple of diodes (half wave rectification), or 4 diodes (full wave
> rectification). This type of supply has a "nominal" voltage output that
> requires a specific load to achieve the nominated voltage. IE, a 12v
> unregulated supply will measure up to 18volts under no load conditions,
and
> can drop down to about 9volts under heavy load.. in other words they need
a
> moderate load in order to maintain their nominated voltage. This can
cause
> major problems if the power rating of the supply doesn't match the power
> requirements of the device being driven. Example, if the device being
driven
> requires (say) 12v at 1amp, then a 12v/1amp unregulated supply will work
> fine, BUT, this same device used with a 12v/2amp unregulated supply will
> suffer a very short life, because the "nominal" voltage will be up near
> 15-16volts, which is too high for many IC's.
> conversely, trying to use a 12v/500ma supply with this same device will
only
> produce about 10v, and this will cause instability with some logic chips.
Yes i know that's a problem sometimes :)
> In contrast, a 12v regulated supply will produce a constant 12v supply,
> regardless of the load, as long as the supply itself meets the minimum
> current requirements of the device that it is used with.
>
> An unfiltered supply will never produce a constant voltage under any
> conditions - The voltage will continually 'swing' between near zero to the
> maximum voltage possible under any given load. These types of supplys
should
> never be used with digital electronic equipment under any circumstances.
Well i actually believe that's the kind of PSU the C16 is asking for since
it actually says
9V <underline>Ż Ż Ż Ż</underline> if you know what i mean :)
BUT, i have now built myself a regulator for the 9VAC with a diodebridge,
LM317 and two capacitors...
Brian
Brian Lund
> > the screen turns black with a horizontally running flicker :/
>
> Uhm, doesn't sound good. Horizontally running flicker? Can you take a
> picture with a camera, webcam or such?
Yes, here are a few taken with my camera, i have a webcam too, but no idea
of how to capture a video-stream :)
If you have msn i could show you though...
The picture is running upwards, flicker maybe exaggerated though...
http://www.geronimo.mobilixnet.dk/c16pics/
The timer is the TV auto-turn-off function...
> > The diskdrive loads on power-on and reset of the C16, so i guess at
> > least the CPU/ROM are still ok...
>
> Hmm, maybe, but if the TED chip is dead, you're in serious trouble...
Then I hope it's alive :)
> > I tried typing LOAD "$",8 but nothing happened on the diskdrive, is
> > there another way for loading on the C16?
>
> Type DIRECTORY, but I don't think you'll notice any difference.
Nothing happened... That's a bad sign, right?
> > Well it seems i don't need the fuses no more... Now i just need
> > spareparts ;(
>
> If you need a PLA or an EPROM, I think I can help you out. Otherwise, I
> can't help :-(
>
> Do you have another C16 ( or +4 ) around, or a friend who owns one?
No, i don't even know anyone else who has a C64 anymore...
If i am that lucky ever to see a C16 series computer again i will sure bring
it home whatever condition it is in!
I havent had a look at what chips are in it, but some of them are probably
compatible with other C= computers, right?
I could take some old C64, C128 or something else and take the chips out
of...
I'm not quite a C= expret so i probably need some help to locate which chips
have died, i have a multimeter and an oscilloscope, so i am equipped i guess
:)
Brian
Rod Gasson
"Brian Lund" <geronimo@-ABCDE-mobilixnet.dk> wrote in message
> > You appear to be confusing unregulated with unfiltered. An unfiltered
> > supply doesn't have the smoothing capacitors, an unregulated supply is
one
> > that doesn't use any form of voltage regulation. I've never seen a
> > regulated supply that doesn't have the filter/smoothing capacitors.
>
> I am not confusing anything ;)
Are you sure about that? (I'm not convinced).
> I have some powerbricks who say f.ex. "9V unregulated", i believe they
have
> some sort of regulation, but i don't know...
Why on earth would you think they have some sort of regulation when they are
obviously labled as UNregulated. Everyone knows that regulated supplies
cost more to produce than an unregulated one, so why on earth would any
manufacturer produce a regulated supply, and then turn around and say that
it is unregulated?
> > In contrast, a 12v regulated supply will produce a constant 12v supply,
> > regardless of the load, as long as the supply itself meets the minimum
> > current requirements of the device that it is used with.
> >
> > An unfiltered supply will never produce a constant voltage under any
> > conditions - The voltage will continually 'swing' between near zero to
the
> > maximum voltage possible under any given load. These types of supplys
> > should never be used with digital electronic equipment under any
circumstances.
>
> Well i actually believe that's the kind of PSU the C16 is asking for since
> it actually says 9V <underline>Ż Ż Ż Ż</underline> if you know what i mean
:)
The underline whatsit actually means "approximately", which suggests the
power supply is unregulated. It doesn't mean it is also unfiltered.
Whether an unregulated or regulated supply is required for any given device
depends a lot on the device itself. As a general rule, any device that will
accept an unregulated supply will almost always have its own regulator (and
filters) onboard. If the device doesn't have its own onboard regulator,
then a regulated supply is usually required.
Cheers
Rod
Brian Lund
> power supply is unregulated. It doesn't mean it is also unfiltered.
>
> Whether an unregulated or regulated supply is required for any given
device
> depends a lot on the device itself. As a general rule, any device that
will
> accept an unregulated supply will almost always have its own regulator
(and
> filters) onboard. If the device doesn't have its own onboard regulator,
> then a regulated supply is usually required.
Maybe you are right anyway...
Whatever, i have made my own regulater circuit for the C16 now...
Brian
Glenn Richards
> So i found a Commodore 16 today, and saved it from the butcher... :)
> But, i couldn't find the powersupply so can anyone tell me (i have been
> googling without success) what voltage (and amperage if possible) it
> requires, so i can test it?
The PSU from a Sinclair Spectrum +2 will fit and works perfectly.
--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/
IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation