Copying turbotape
Peter Karlsson
I have a lot of tapes with turbotape recorded games on them. What's the
best way to get such games onto a diskdrive or a PC? The tape-to-disk
copy programs seem to have problems reading some of the turbotape
formats (I have used an array of different turbotapes, most of which
seems incompatible, but which, strangely enough, always are readable by
the TFC3 and its LOAD"",7 routine), or with long programs.
Is there any software that I could run on a PC (Windows/Linux) and have
the input on the soundcard connected to the output of a tape deck and
have it output .T64s or similar? I don't want to do .TAPs, that seems a
waste with cracks anyway.
Most of the games are probably available on Arnold anyway, but just for
the sake of it (and that they probably are cracked by someone else on
my copy anyway...)
--
\\//
Peter - iDOC= - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/idoc/
Statement concerning unsolicited e-mail according to Swedish law:
http://www.softwolves.pp.se/peter/reklampost.html
Mike
<slrnadft6t....@perkele.perkele>:
>Hi!
>
>I have a lot of tapes with turbotape recorded games on them. What's the
>best way to get such games onto a diskdrive or a PC? The tape-to-disk
>copy programs seem to have problems reading some of the turbotape
>formats (I have used an array of different turbotapes, most of which
>seems incompatible, but which, strangely enough, always are readable by
>the TFC3 and its LOAD"",7 routine), or with long programs.
>
>Is there any software that I could run on a PC (Windows/Linux) and have
>the input on the soundcard connected to the output of a tape deck and
>have it output .T64s or similar? I don't want to do .TAPs, that seems a
>waste with cracks anyway.
>
>Most of the games are probably available on Arnold anyway, but just for
>the sake of it (and that they probably are cracked by someone else on
>my copy anyway...)
>
Many many many years ago I wrote a very small assembler program to do just
that.
The program resides in low memory (below 1024), in some hundred bytes free
(it was not the cassette buffer).
That software uses the Kernel ROM's SAVE routine to save the program in RAM
to diskette. It takes care of switching off BASIC ROM while saving, to
avoid corrupting the program.
The entire process was similar to:
POKE 2048,36
Any value other than 0 in 2048 will produce a ?SYNTAX ERROR on the RUN
statement. The value 36 was used for mystic reasons ;-)
LOAD ""
After loading the program from tape, RUN fails with the above mentioned
message.
PRINT PEEK(45), PEEK(46)
Write down the values of the pointers that mark the end of the program just
loaded.
LOAD "copy-all",8,1
This loads the copier to the low RAM.
POKE 45,{value written down}
POKE 46,{value written down}
SYS xxx
xxx was the initial address of the copier.
Without reading my old papers, I don't recall the addresses used.
The program itself was VERY simple, just used 3 Kernel ROM routines.
I manage to copy programs that have 202 blocks on diskette with this little
software (from 2049 to the start of VIC RAM ;-)))
Cheers,
Mike
Peter Karlsson
> Without reading my old papers, I don't recall the addresses used.
> The program itself was VERY simple, just used 3 Kernel ROM routines.
It still requires the kernel to be switched in, I gather, and possibly
I/O? Some of the programs I have on tape extend beyond $D000 and $E000,
which are the programs that cause problems. Programs that only go up to
below $D000 can easily be copied with a TFC3 doing
LOAD"PROGRAM",7
DSAVE"PROGRAM"
Overdoc
Peter Karlsson schrieb in Nachricht ...
>Hi!
>
>I have a lot of tapes with turbotape recorded games on them. What's the
>best way to get such games onto a diskdrive or a PC? The tape-to-disk
>copy programs seem to have problems reading some of the turbotape
>formats (I have used an array of different turbotapes, most of which
>seems incompatible, but which, strangely enough, always are readable by
>the TFC3 and its LOAD"",7 routine), or with long programs.
>
Isn't there a built-in turbo-tape-2-disk copier in FCIII ?
I did the same thing as you described some years ago and I didn't convert
them directly from tape to the PC, but I first copied them from tape to
1541. ( although I am sure there are programs to convert directly from
turbotape to PC by connecting the dataset C2N unit to the PC )
But for my method I always used 'COPY 190'. It works nice with games until
at least 186 blocks length. ( don't know for longer ones, but I think most
turbo-tape programs couldn't load up to 202 blocks anyway )
But I know I have one more modern turbotape 2 disk copier ( from somewhere
in the nineties ! ) that should be able to handle everything :)
If I find it I could send it to you.
Reini
Cameron Kaiser
>It still requires the kernel to be switched in, I gather, and possibly
>I/O? Some of the programs I have on tape extend beyond $D000 and $E000,
>which are the programs that cause problems. Programs that only go up to
>below $D000 can easily be copied with a TFC3 doing
> LOAD"PROGRAM",7
> DSAVE"PROGRAM"
It's been awhile since I had my FC3 running, but I don't remember device 7.
What was that?
--
Cameron Kaiser * cka...@stockholm.ptloma.edu * posting with a Commodore 128
personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **
Peter Karlsson
> It's been awhile since I had my FC3 running, but I don't remember device 7.
> What was that?
Turbotape, compatible with most standard turbos (like Turbo Tape 64,
Turbo 250, Super Turbo and the like).
Peter Karlsson
> Isn't there a built-in turbo-tape-2-disk copier in FCIII ?
No, only a loader. It can load games of any size, but DSAVE cannot save
programs over $D000, which is why I am looking for a bett program.
> ( don't know for longer ones, but I think most turbo-tape programs
> couldn't load up to 202 blocks anyway )
Turbo 250 loads programs up to somewhere around $FE00... I have several
programs too large to copy by regular programs, that's why I asked.
Burt
http://arnold.c64.org/~minstrel/
BTW, I'm interested in one version of TURBO TAPE - where the screen border
flickers (if I recall correctly from my childhood years).... The thing I
think did give sound too...
If you have it pls let me know... It hold a high nostalgic value in my
heart...
MTAP & PTAP are the best for this job - i copied some stuff back & forth
via cable to the real thing and the PC.
The cable can be purchased from Joe Forster:
http://www.mergetel.com/~blitz/Secure/shop.html
X1531 is the name I think....
good luck and email me back if you have that turbo tape loader...
--
___
/ __|__ Burt /Terminator / /
/ / |_/ www.museum.c64.org / /
\ \__|_\ Adoring C= 64 / 128 and \ \/ /
\___| Getting into Amiga, too... \/\/
Linards Ticmanis
> Turbo 250 loads programs up to somewhere around $FE00... I have several
> programs too large to copy by regular programs, that's why I asked.
Well... something that comes to mind would be
1.) make a TAP
2.) load into emu
3.) use emu's snapshot function
4.) extract relevant portion of memory from the snapshot (using some
QBASIC code or so) and save to a file on the PC.
--
Linards Ticmanis
The Master said, "The business of laying on the colors follows the
preparation of the plain ground."
Anders Carlsson
> BTW, I'm interested in one version of TURBO TAPE - where the screen
> border flickers (if I recall correctly from my childhood years)....
Heh. I have three-four different "flimmer" versions of Turbo Tape.
Which one do you want (all including flicker):
1. Turbo Tape by Quesoft, with <-Q function. Loads 190 blocks. This
one also relocates into address 50000 and thus can be restarted
unless the loaded program has overwritten it. This version is the
one I've used most of the time.
2. Turbo Tape by a friend of ours I can't remember his handle. This
one also has <-Q, is restartable but I don't know if it's any
better than (1).
3. Turbo Tape by Mr Z. Loads 250 blocks. Not restartable, but handy
for the really long loads. Exists in a non-flicker version too.
4. Unknown turbo tape, which I acquired lately ('91). The difference
is this one only uses the five levels of gray instead of all 16
colours for its flash. Not much used.
I have other turbos too (like 202 blocks by Elgar, without flash and
not restartable), but I don't think they're any useful compared to
(1) and (3) above.
> The thing I think did give sound too...
Hm.. none of mine outputs SID noises, but you may "hear" things from
your TV when the screen flashes (interference?). The flash is useful
to tune your azimuth angle, in case you have different angles on your
tapes (or borrowed tapes from a friend with adjusted tape recorder).
I think it'd be harder to tune the r/w head by using sound.
--
Anders Carlsson
Peter Karlsson
> Please spare yourself the agony and look at Markus Brenner's site:
> http://arnold.c64.org/~minstrel/
Hmm, none of those tools seems to do what I want, and that is to dump
the programs themselves, not the tape. I'm not interested in creating
TAP files, I'd prefer a .T64. I.e, I need a program smart enough to
actually decode the tape data as it goes along.
I might consider doing it via a .TAP file, but I want something rather
automated to convert the files (I have 30 or so tapes with about 40
games on each side of the cassette, and that would take quite some time
to dump manually...)
> BTW, I'm interested in one version of TURBO TAPE - where the screen
> border flickers (if I recall correctly from my childhood years)....
> The thing I think did give sound too...
I have one that flickers slightly, but I can't remember if it gives any
sound. It's called "TURBO MAT III" on my tape, IIRC.
Christian Link
wrote:
>Burt:
>
>> Please spare yourself the agony and look at Markus Brenner's site:
>> http://arnold.c64.org/~minstrel/
>
>Hmm, none of those tools seems to do what I want, and that is to dump
>the programs themselves, not the tape. I'm not interested in creating
>TAP files, I'd prefer a .T64. I.e, I need a program smart enough to
>actually decode the tape data as it goes along.
Still, Burt is right, as with Markus' tool, you can create a TAP file
which can later be extracted. A more convenient method to do this (on
the fly, even) would be the "C64TAPIO" program that came with the C64S
emulator. It should be included in the limited demo version of this
emulator, too.
>I might consider doing it via a .TAP file, but I want something rather
>automated to convert the files (I have 30 or so tapes with about 40
>games on each side of the cassette, and that would take quite some time
>to dump manually...)
Think again: You only have two means, either doing it on the real
machine (via Copy190 etc., i.e. clumsily like hell), or first copying
the whole tape's contents (= pulses) into a clean TAP file and later
*automatically* extracting the stuff (unless it's broken, which is a
problem in _all_ settings, mind you!).
If you have a TAP file, and if it's not too noisy or done on a totally
misaligned cassette drive, you can simply run, e.g. Tape64 saying:
TAPE64.EXE -I:TAPFILE.TAP -OT:MYTTAPE
Note that you have to omit the ".T64" extension in the MYTTAPE
statement.
This will extract all known file types from your TAP file into one T64
per TAP. If you add the -E switch, it would also try to extract flakey
files, which is not a very good idea with TurboTape stuff (as it is
stored only once, so if it's broken it's broken, period. With standard
kernal-saved stuff, which is saved _twice_, you may be lucky, though).
Take down notes as of which files had load errors, and try to
re-adjust your tape a little, then try again. Just like you would do
on a real machien.
With C64TAPIO.EXE, things would be more flexible, though, as it would
dump right into a T64, and notify you of the programs it couldn't
convert due to load errors. I.e. if you don't run it unattended, you
could always stop the whole process, rewind a little (take down the
counter when the program reports a new file being found), turn the
adjustment screw somewhat (or even use the built-in graphical
adjustment help for doing so), and try again.
The main problem, especially if your tapes weren't copied in one go
(i.e. all with the same datasette, and with no modifications to the
adjustment screw in between saves), is that the adjustment settings
required for program #1, may still be wrong for program #22 on the
tape. Hence, an *attended* conversion is highly recommended.
Sooner or later you _will_ have your stuff in your T64.
Then again, hehe... Why don't you simply download the stuff on your
tape(s) from the internet? If it isn't too fancy a collection, chances
are that it's all online already. Or don't you exactly know what's on
your tapes?
>> BTW, I'm interested in one version of TURBO TAPE - where the screen
>> border flickers (if I recall correctly from my childhood years)....
>> The thing I think did give sound too...
That's commonly referred to as "Turbo Tape II", yes. If you can
convert it to your C64 and won't flame me for sending you a P00 file
(strip the first 26 bytes to come up with a raw PRG!), I'll email it
to you.
Greetings,
Chris.
Linards Ticmanis
> I might consider doing it via a .TAP file, but I want something rather
> automated to convert the files (I have 30 or so tapes with about 40
> games on each side of the cassette, and that would take quite some time
> to dump manually...)
2400 Games? Wow.
Probably then it might make sense to write some code for the PC that
automatically exctracts all TurboTape files from a TAP. I have the funny
feeling in the back of my head that I've already heard of such a tool
existing. Maybe somebody could confirm this?
Then all you'd have to do would be to make one TAP per cassette side,
putting each one into the datasette once, which really can't be avoided
anyways...
Overdoc
Christian Link schrieb in Nachricht ...
[snip]
>The main problem, especially if your tapes weren't copied in one go
>(i.e. all with the same datasette, and with no modifications to the
>adjustment screw in between saves), is that the adjustment settings
>required for program #1, may still be wrong for program #22 on the
>tape. Hence, an *attended* conversion is highly recommended.
Oh, yes, that gave lots of friends of mine a headache ;)
So I had 2 tapedecks ( one borrowed from a friend who didn't use it anymore
because he had a rich family and had a 1541 already very early, when me &
other friends were still on tapes ).
Then, when copying stuff, I loaded from the borrowed unit where I screwed
around like hell until I could read a file without load errors, then
unplugged the unit ( while the C64 was on, ofcourse !! ) and plugged in my
original tape unit for saving the file.
When I think of this method nowadays then I must have been very lucky that I
didn't blow anything in the C64 with that plugging actions....
Reini
Christian Link
On Wed, 08 May 2002 18:14:39 GMT, "Overdoc" <ove...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>unplugged the unit ( while the C64 was on, ofcourse !! ) and plugged in my
>original tape unit for saving the file.
>When I think of this method nowadays then I must have been very lucky that I
>didn't blow anything in the C64 with that plugging actions....
You certainly were! I did the same to the very first VIC20 I had my
fingers on and fried something immediately. Unfortunately, it wasn't
even my own machine, but my pal's. That's how friendships end. I mean,
I could have insulted his mother, screwed his girlfriend (heck, yeah,
at the age of 12, fat chance ;-) ...), scratched his car (ditto),
whatever - he may have sooner or later forgiven me all of that.
...But toasting his VIC20 - nah! No more Omega Race or Jupiter Lander
:-( ...
Greetings,
Chris.
Andreas Andersson
> Peter Karlsson wrote:
>
> > I might consider doing it via a .TAP file, but I want something rather
> > automated to convert the files (I have 30 or so tapes with about 40
> > games on each side of the cassette, and that would take quite some time
> > to dump manually...)
>
> 2400 Games? Wow.
>
> Probably then it might make sense to write some code for the PC that
> automatically exctracts all TurboTape files from a TAP. I have the funny
> feeling in the back of my head that I've already heard of such a tool
> existing. Maybe somebody could confirm this?
I also have a funny feeling that I've seen this somewhere. If there isn't
such a beast available, I might hack TAPir a bit so that it does all this
in one step, i.e. reads from the sound card of 'ye olde PC' and outputs
.T64 files.
But, there'd have to be some kind of demand for it, which won't happen
in my lifetime I'm sure :)
/Andreas
AxiMaxi
wrote:
>I have a lot of tapes with turbotape recorded games on them. What's the
>best way to get such games onto a diskdrive or a PC? The tape-to-disk
>copy programs seem to have problems reading some of the turbotape
>formats (I have used an array of different turbotapes, most of which
>seems incompatible, but which, strangely enough, always are readable by
>the TFC3 and its LOAD"",7 routine), or with long programs.
My two favourite programs to convert tape to disc are:
1) " No load error" to align the casette-head
2) "202 copy" to copy any file between 1 and 202 block, Tape <-> 1541
Using these two, I read tapes of over 16 years old without errors!
As soon as the "automated" e-mail of http://www.64hdd.com sends me a
registration code, I'm going to try 64HDD. Should take away the hassle
of the 1541 drive and send the tape-files directly to the PC.
(But let me get back on that when it works, okay?)
~AxiMaxi
Peter Karlsson
> 2400 Games? Wow.
Well, some are probably duplicates, and some of the tapes probably
aren't full. But there's quite a lot at least. I never bothered to count.
> Then all you'd have to do would be to make one TAP per cassette side,
> putting each one into the datasette once, which really can't be avoided
> anyways...
Yeah, that's the amount of effort I hoping to be able to achieve... :)
TSM
news:slrnadigov....@perkele.perkele
> Hmm, none of those tools seems to do what I want, and that is to dump
> the programs themselves, not the tape. I'm not interested in creating
> TAP files, I'd prefer a .T64. I.e, I need a program smart enough to
> actually decode the tape data as it goes along.
As far as I know, Tape64 can decode a TAP file if programs are stored
by normal ROM routines or even some kinds of Turbo Tape; it then
creates a T64 file.
It's main purpose is to create TAP files, but it can, for instance,
read from a version 0 TAP and convert it to version 1.
Try it for your Turbo Tapes.
TSM
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Martin Sikström
> Linards Ticmanis <ticm...@coli.uni-sb.de> writes:
> > Probably then it might make sense to write some code for the PC that
> > automatically exctracts all TurboTape files from a TAP. I have the funny
> > feeling in the back of my head that I've already heard of such a tool
> > existing. Maybe somebody could confirm this?
Wav-prg by Fabrizio Gennari can to this. The only objection I
have is the two-step process, i.e. that you first have to make a
TAP and then decode it.
> I also have a funny feeling that I've seen this somewhere. If there isn't
> such a beast available, I might hack TAPir a bit so that it does all this
> in one step, i.e. reads from the sound card of 'ye olde PC' and outputs
> .T64 files.
I hacked TAPir last night and now it is capable of reading a turbo
tape and spitting out PRG files. It is still very rough. For
example, there is no name conversion, so if a file was saved with
a name that doesn't work in Windows, the creation of that file
fails even though there is nothing wrong with the data. The
conversion happily moves on to the next file, so it is still
somewhat useful. It works with about 80% of the files from two
randomly selected tapes I had.
I have only tried it under Windows yet, but I see no reason
*cough* that it wouldn't still work under Linux.
I'd rather not release it to the public before Andreas has had a
chance to look at it, so hold your breath for a couple of days.
Regards,
Martin
Peter Karlsson
> As far as I know, Tape64 can decode a TAP file if programs are stored
> by normal ROM routines or even some kinds of Turbo Tape; it then
> creates a T64 file.
Hmm, that sounds exactly like what I need (even though I would prefer
not to have to go via the TAP step). Where can I find this program?
Do I really need to have special hardware to create TAP files? Can't
they be created via the sound card (or perhaps the quality isn't good
enough for turbotape)?
Fabrizio Gennari
"Martin Sikström" <e93...@alumoklyuchevskit.e.kth.se> ha scritto nel
messaggio news:grk8z6s...@alumoklyuchevskit.e.kth.se...
> Andreas Andersson <e92...@alumoklyuchevskit.e.kth.se> writes:
>
> > Linards Ticmanis <ticm...@coli.uni-sb.de> writes:
> > > Probably then it might make sense to write some code for the PC that
> > > automatically exctracts all TurboTape files from a TAP. I have the
funny
> > > feeling in the back of my head that I've already heard of such a tool
> > > existing. Maybe somebody could confirm this?
>
> Wav-prg by Fabrizio Gennari can to this. The only objection I
> have is the two-step process, i.e. that you first have to make a
> TAP and then decode it.
>
Turbo Tape tapes in one step: stick the tape in the player, connect it to
the soundcard, select "Soundcard" and press OK.
Here is a list of programs that can create T64 files from tapes (in
brackets, the possible origin):
Wav-prg (soundcard, WAV, TAP)
Tape64 (WAV, TAP)
TAPir (Soundcard)
Turbo Tape Loader (WAV)
Final TAP (TAP; however, Turbo Tape 64 is recognized but "not yet
extractable")
Exam3 (TAP; however, I couldn't extract files with this, tried the same TAP
with Tape64 and got a working T64)
This list is by no means complete.