Differences between 1541 drive & 1541ii & 1571...
Terminator
1541 ii
and 1571 disk Drives??? As users do you prefer any of them over
the other ones???
I'd imagine 1541 parts are much easier to come by than others...
Would welcome some
comments and suggestions, which diskdrives do what & what are
some of the differences.
Terminator
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Cameron Kaiser
>What are some of the most important differences between 1541 and 1541 ii
>and 1571 disk Drives??? As users do you prefer any of them over the other
>ones???
>I'd imagine 1541 parts are much easier to come by than others... Would
>welcome some comments and suggestions, which diskdrives do what & what are
>some of the differences.
1571 parts aren't too hard to come by either, though. Remember there are
several versions of the 1541, which Nicolas no doubt is coming up with
at this moment in a desperate bid to catch me at the top of the posting
list. ;-)
The 1541-II's primary advantage is the external power supply, which means
a smaller footprint and less weight in the drive itself. There are
internal hardware differences, but functionally it's no different than any
other 1541.
The 1571, as you probably already know, reads both MFM and GCR formats,
supports fast serial transfers with the 128, and has some bugs in early
ROM versions. :-) Bugs aside, it is the best drive to use with a 128 in
128 mode. Other than that, it is designed to act like a 1541, also.
--
Cameron Kaiser * cka...@stockholm.ptloma.edu * posting with a Commodore 128
personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
** http://www.armory.com/~spectre/cwi/ **
Don Judy
The 1541 is a single sided drive set to device 8 at the factory. Capacity is 664
blocks normally. Directory is on track 18.
The 1541 II and 1571 can do everything a 1541 can do. However, some forms of
copy protection may be compatible only with the plain vanilla 1541.
The 1541 has a higher profile than the 1541-II and 1571. They also have flat
tops, handy for coffee and other drive-destroying beverages, and great for
storage of papers, books, floppies etc which in turn help with heat storage in
the drive.
In addition, the 1541 II has the external power supply, a nice feature as if the
power supply goes you just replace or repair (ha!) it. It's power supply seems
to be prone to early demise so this repairable/replaceable feature will get
used.
It should be noted there is a 1571-II which has the external power supply, and
there is a single sided version of the 1571 called the 1570. Maybe there's even
a 1570-II.
The 1541 must have the device number changed through software or hardware.
Through software its number can go from 8-31 or thereabouts. I personally have
never needed to go quite that high. After resetting or turning off drive or
computer it will revert back to its original number form the software change.
Its hardware device change involves cutting jumpers after opening up the drive.
These can reside at different places depending on the board and can be difficult
to cut. The hardware device change can only go from 8-11.
The 1541-II has external dip switches on the rear face which change the device
number, once again choices are from 8-11. Device 8 is both switches up, device 9
is left down and right up, device 10 is left up and right down and device 11 is
both switches down. In other words add 1 to the device number if the left switch
is down and add 2 to the device number if the right seitch is down. Add 1 + 2 to
the device number if both are down.
The 1571 is a double sided disk drive with a capacity of 1328 blocks in native
1571 mode. It has the same handy external dipswitches which work the same way as
those on the 1541-II. Its power supply is internal like the 1541. It has a fast
serial mode which is available on a C128 in C128 mode or CP/m mode or a hacked
C64. It is compatible with mfm CP/m format disks like Osborne and Epson and
Kaypro and can have a greater storage capacity than the 1541 in these modes
which are fast serial mode compatible. It can be forced into 1541 mode by
software and wil stay in that mode until reset or power down and up. It can also
be forced into 1571 mode through software for 1328 blocks storage capacity using
the second side. This is handy for C64, Plus/4 and C16/C116 use.
OPEN 1,8,15,"U0>M0":CLOSE1 will force 1541 mode.
OPEN 1,8,15,"U0>M1":CLOSE1 will force 1571 mode.
Autobooting on the C128 is supported by all three drives.
A further note:
The 1571 can be dangerous to 1541 two sided disks, as it can format over the
second side if not in 1541 mode. I just did this last night copying a side of a
1541 disk with the DOS Shell included on the 1571 demo disk. One would think
copying a single sided disk wouldn't necessitate a double sided format, but
there you go...
dj
Nicolas Welte
> 1571 parts aren't too hard to come by either, though. Remember there are
> several versions of the 1541, which Nicolas no doubt is coming up with
> at this moment in a desperate bid to catch me at the top of the posting
> list. ;-)
Actually I am getting lazy lately and didn't want to write something
this time. But you mention a very good reason to change my mind ;-)
So here it goes:
The old 1541 exists in many different versions, I can't list them all
here. Two different drive mechs were used: the Alps drive, with the
push-down door, is known for having several problems: if lubrication of
the spindle gets lost the drive is very noisy, it also looses alignment
easily and the mechanism as a whole is not made for long term use. The
Newtronics/Mitsumi drive on the other hand, with the turn-around door,
doesn't have these disadvantages, but if it breaks down, has more
serious problems. R/W heads and the motor control circuit are the major
failures of the drive. These two drives were combined with several
different controller boards: The long one, originally the 1540
controller, is easiest to repair, because it doesn't use any special CBM
components. It is only found together with the Alps drive. Then came the
short board, in several revisions and versions, and this is normally
installed in what we call a 1541. After this a major redesign of the
1541 controller was made, with components that were already used in the
1551, the 1570 and 1571. This controller is even smaller than the short
board, and is called the 1541B. If at all, it is found in the 1541C
drive, a cream coloured version of the 1541. There are several
compatibility problems with this drive, mostly due to the changed ROM,
but the service manual also lists potential hardware problems with some
nonstandard recording schemes.
The 1541-II is basically just an even more integrated version of the
1541B/C, with a slightly revised ROM to increase compatibility. It was
shipped with three different drive mechs, the old Newtronics with belt
drive, and two new ones with a better direct drive. The latter are
preferrable of course.
Nicolas
Nicolas Welte
> It should be noted there is a 1571-II which has the external power supply, and
> there is a single sided version of the 1571 called the 1570. Maybe there's even
> a 1570-II.
There was no 1571-II, or have you seen one? Also, there's for sure no
1570-II, the 1570 was only made to provide customers at least with a
single sided fast drive for the C128, when the 1571 couldn't be made in
sufficient quantities. Therefore the 1570 uses a 1571 controller, but
otherwise components from a 1541. It also looks like a 1541C!
Nicolas
Pekka "Pihti" Takala
At least in bottom of both my 1541-2 drive power supplies you can read
"for 1541-ii/1571-II/1581 only"
so this says that it might be possible that 1571-II exists. It is a rare
drive if it exists.
--
-------------------------------------
--- Pekka "Pihti" Takala ---
--- pekka....@pp.inet.fi ---
--- pi...@pp.inet.fi ---
-------------------------------------
Cameron Kaiser
>There was no 1571-II, or have you seen one?
Someone contacted me and says that they saw one in Toronto. Still working
out the entry.
Rusure
RE: Differences between 1541 drive & 1541ii & 1571...
BY: Terminator <c64dungeo...@yahoo.com.inva
When connected to a C 128 running in 128 and CP/M modes,
the 1571 can operate in BURST mode. This feature allows
the 1571 to transmit and receive data to a 128 at MUCH
higher data rates than a 1541. In addition, The 1571
has a second read / write head. This allows the drive
to access data space on the second side of a floppy
disk without having to remove the disk from the drive,
flipping the disk(or maybe the drive) and reinserting
the disk in the drive.
There are archive and heavily protected game programs
that require that they load and run from a 1541.
As far as the archive programs are concerned, I think
that this is a logic flaw in the program. The writers
of the program should have inserted an option for
allowing the program to access disks in drives other
than 1541's with some kind of aRe yoU SURE type of
prompt..
--
"Roadkill on the Information Superhighway..."
ToV WWIV 4.30 @971.Filenet Loveland, CO
wiz {at} lart {dot} com Sprechen sie LART?
TINLC (If there were, you couldn't tell if I were part of it or not)
Daniel Morrow
Don Judy wrote:
> Differences between 1541, 1541 II and 1571 drives
>
> The 1541 is a single sided drive set to device 8 at the factory. Capacity is 664
> blocks normally. Directory is on track 18.
> The 1541 II and 1571 can do everything a 1541 can do. However, some forms of
> copy protection may be compatible only with the plain vanilla 1541.
>
It should also be mentioned that some software is only compatible with some of the
other more recent drives like the newtronics 1541, Appears to definitely be the case
with "the graphics transformer" software.
> The 1541 has a higher profile than the 1541-II and 1571. They also have flat
> tops, handy for coffee and other drive-destroying beverages, and great for
> storage of papers, books, floppies etc which in turn help with heat storage in
> the drive.
>
> In addition, the 1541 II has the external power supply, a nice feature as if the
> power supply goes you just replace or repair (ha!) it. It's power supply seems
> to be prone to early demise so this repairable/replaceable feature will get
> used.
>
I would note that I have two 1541-ii's which I have had for a long time and have had
perfect use out of them ever since I bought them, the power supplies seem fine, the
only real concern that I know about is using a 1541-ii specific power supply (lower
output) with a 1581 disk drive (higher current requirements apparently). Unlike my
newtronics 1541 which seems to brake down all the time, I almost never get much
totally functional use out of it.
Don Judy
snipped part -
> I would note that I have two 1541-ii's which I have had for a long time and have had
> perfect use out of them ever since I bought them, the power supplies seem fine, the
> only real concern that I know about is using a 1541-ii specific power supply (lower
> output) with a 1581 disk drive (higher current requirements apparently). Unlike my
> newtronics 1541 which seems to brake down all the time, I almost never get much
> totally functional use out of it.
You've had a totally reversed experience from mine. I had two 1541-IIs and both
their
power supplies went bad, one soon after I had sold it to someone else. On the
other
hand, my newtronics 1541s have all worked wonderfully excepting one which needed
minimal
coaxing (disk notch sensor), even the ones I cut the wrong"jumpers" on in an
early
attempt at changing device numbers still work, blobs of repair solder and all.
Although I have never used them with a 1581 because I've never owned one, both
my
1541-II power supplies say "for 1541-II/1571-II/1581 only" same as Pekka Takala
mentions.
Can't check their output now as I'd be waking the bw.
dj
Don Judy
>
> There was no 1571-II, or have you seen one? Also, there's for sure no
> 1570-II, the 1570 was only made to provide customers at least with a
> single sided fast drive for the C128, when the 1571 couldn't be made in
> sufficient quantities. Therefore the 1570 uses a 1571 controller, but
> otherwise components from a 1541. It also looks like a 1541C!
>
> Nicolas
I thought I had seen a pic of a 1571-II, but I think I would have saved it and
can't find it. However, as has been pointed out the 1541-II power supply
mentions the 1571-II, as does the Canonical Commodore Hardware list, albeit as
"never marketed, never produced" with no confirming initials. This would mean I
guess that only prototypes were made so somebody may have one somewhere. At any
rate I don't think Burt has to consider its hardware availability very heavily.
dj
Nicolas Welte
>
> Nicolas Welte <we...@chemie.uni-konstanz.de> writes:
>
> >There was no 1571-II, or have you seen one?
>
> out the entry.
Pictures, chip list or just a rumour ?
Nicolas
Nicolas Welte
> I thought I had seen a pic of a 1571-II, but I think I would have saved it and
> can't find it. However, as has been pointed out the 1541-II power supply
> mentions the 1571-II, as does the Canonical Commodore Hardware list, albeit as
> "never marketed, never produced" with no confirming initials. This would mean I
> guess that only prototypes were made so somebody may have one somewhere. At any
> rate I don't think Burt has to consider its hardware availability very heavily.
The question is if prototypes were made at all. I've never seen a
1541-II/1581 PS that doesn't mention the 1571-II as well. I think
Commodore had thought at least about making the drive in the moment when
the specified the PS and designed the labels. They also had a highly
integrated version of the 1571 already (the internal 1571cr of the
128dcr) so all that had to be done for them was to design a new PCB and
put it into a 1541-II enclosure. I really don't know for whatever reason
they continued to make the old 1571 beast all the way till the end.
Nicolas
Cameron Kaiser
>>>There was no 1571-II, or have you seen one?
>>Someone contacted me and says that they saw one in Toronto. Still working
>>out the entry.
>Pictures, chip list or just a rumour ?
Apocryphal, so far. The person in question described it as very similar
to a 1541-II, except the name plate said 1571-II (I made very sure to ask
him that it did *not* say 1541-II, several times). Not a surprise there :-)
I'm just going to report the rumour as unconfirmed and see if it jogs
anyone's memory. Maybe Andy Finkel or Dennis Jarvis is reading this
message ...
melissa jones
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> Nicolas Welte <we...@chemie.uni-konstanz.de> writes:
>
> >>>There was no 1571-II, or have you seen one?
>
> >>Someone contacted me and says that they saw one in Toronto. Still working
> >>out the entry.
>
> >Pictures, chip list or just a rumour ?
>
> Apocryphal, so far. The person in question described it as very similar
> to a 1541-II, except the name plate said 1571-II (I made very sure to ask
> him that it did *not* say 1541-II, several times). Not a surprise there :-)
> I'm just going to report the rumour as unconfirmed and see if it jogs
> anyone's memory. Maybe Andy Finkel or Dennis Jarvis is reading this
> message ...
I would just report it as a rumour - I said I could never confirm it. It is off
memory after several years after a sighting ~ especially since at the time since
I was not interested in any commodore "64" product other that the original 1541
case as I was considering using it for a CD rom or other 5 1/2" PC products for
external uses. The new simline cases were useless for cd roms or hard disk
because the cases could not hold their faceplate covers.
Cameron Kaiser
>I would just report it as a rumour - I said I could never confirm it. It is
>off memory after several years after a sighting ~ especially since at the
>time since I was not interested in any commodore "64" product other that the
>original 1541 case as I was considering using it for a CD rom or other 5
>1/2" PC products for external uses. The new simline cases were useless for
>cd roms or hard disk because the cases could not hold their faceplate covers.
There you are. :-)
melissa jones
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> melissa jones <mei...@sprint.ca> writes:
>
> >I would just report it as a rumour - I said I could never confirm it. It is
> >off memory after several years after a sighting ~ especially since at the
> >time since I was not interested in any commodore "64" product other that the
> >original 1541 case as I was considering using it for a CD rom or other 5
> >1/2" PC products for external uses. The new simline cases were useless for
> >cd roms or hard disk because the cases could not hold their faceplate covers.
>
> There you are. :-)
>
Suprise!
John Iannetta
"I would note that I have two 1541-ii's which I have had for a long time and
have had perfect use out of them ever since I bought them, the power supplies
seem fine, the only real concern that I know about is using a 1541-ii specific
power supply (lower output) with a 1581 disk drive (higher current
requirements apparently). Unlike my newtronics 1541 which seems to brake down
all the time, I almost never get much totally functional use out of it.".
The power requirements of the 1541-II and the 1581 have come up before in
this Newsgroup. I measured the maximum current draws of my 1541-II, and of my
1581. This is what I got:
1541-II 1581
------- ----
+5 VDC 375 mA 500 mA
+12 VDC 330 mA 220 mA
Total Power 5.835 W 5.14 W
So the 1581 draws more current from the 5 volt line, but less from the 12
volt line (compared to the 1541-II).
--
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