1571 SPEED ADJUSTMENT FOR SUPERCARD-RAMBOARD NEEDED

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bluebirdpod

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Jun 27, 2006, 10:29:55 PM6/27/06
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I have been searching Hi and Low for documentation on how to add a
speed control adjustment to a 1571 disk drive, I know this has been
done, as It mentions it on the flip-side of supercardplus 6.0 software
disk. I have a Supercard Plus 1571 installed, and need to slow down
the drive to copy the Vorpal/V-max stuff Like Calgames/Legend of
blacksilver/Games winter and summer editions.


Also the 1541-II with direct drive motor also does not have any speed
control adjustments, has this also been documented anywhere?

I found all the ramboard stuff on the Inet for 1541-11 and 1571, but
none of this shows anything about the speed control.

If anyone has the original Documentation from Utilities Unlimited
for the SuperCard Plus 1571 by Jim Drew, I know it would show it, as
the SEQ file on the flip-side says, connect using the diagram, well
there is no Diagram on any of the disks, so its refering the the
manual.


Very soon as the Ramboard has been documented I will try to
make up some info on how to build a supercard plus for both
the 1541 and the 1571, It has RAM/ROM and support chips on both
units, unfortunatly both are copies from original boards, One is
point to point wired in the 1541 version, and the 1571 version is
proto-boarded with etching solution, however they both work as needed
with the supercard software, and both pass the test file on the disk.
the 1541 simply relocates the 6502 chip and the same for the 1571, but
with the 1571 there is a wire connected to one of the chips on the
board. All parts are identified, and ROM has allready been dumped to a
bin file.

The best part is the user creatable copier files, that directly
control the card, you can input tracks densitys and header info and
filler gap info, also you can create your own sector editing parameter
files to edit whatever you like to crack the software.

BLUEBIRDPOD_AT_YAHOO_DOT_COM

Snogpitch

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Jun 28, 2006, 1:43:18 AM6/28/06
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My manual states that installation information is located on the auxillary
disk. I'll have to dig out my disks and print out the material to see
what's on it. Information for the 1541-II is also on that disk, so perhaps
the other information you need is there as well.

--
Snogpitch

ICQ: 4989342
Webpage: http://pages.prodigy.net/snogpitch/

On 6/27/06 10:29 PM, in article rcq3a2ddta5jsri59...@4ax.com,

Wolfgang Moser

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Jun 28, 2006, 1:48:43 AM6/28/06
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Hi Chuch,

bluebirdpod schrieb:


> I have been searching Hi and Low for documentation on how to add a
> speed control adjustment to a 1571 disk drive, I know this has been
> done, as It mentions it on the flip-side of supercardplus 6.0 software
> disk. I have a Supercard Plus 1571 installed, and need to slow down
> the drive to copy the Vorpal/V-max stuff Like Calgames/Legend of
> blacksilver/Games winter and summer editions.

maybe you want to share / provide a bunch of scans or
photos from your stuff and how it got installed to
your drive. I would appreciate any info about it,
although Supercard is the "enemy" to RAMBOard. Well,
not the hardware, it more is UU that CLD had to fight
with.

> Also the 1541-II with direct drive motor also does not have any speed
> control adjustments, has this also been documented anywhere?

It seems so. Tomorrow morning I found a documentation
for CLDs speed control in my INBOX and there it says
clearly:

"Also note that we have located and identified
a 1541 II model that has NO potentiometer. We
currently have no solution to that particular
drive problem."


> I found all the ramboard stuff on the Inet for 1541-11 and 1571, but
> none of this shows anything about the speed control.

Thanks you mentioned it, documentation for CLDs speed
control is in progress and will hopefully appear in
three or four weeks, if real life conditions allow me
to do so.

> If anyone has the original Documentation from Utilities Unlimited
> for the SuperCard Plus 1571 by Jim Drew, I know it would show it, as
> the SEQ file on the flip-side says, connect using the diagram, well
> there is no Diagram on any of the disks, so its refering the the
> manual.

Hmmmm, it seems that there is some demand for all the
Supercard related hardware? Maybe I should add some
items from UU onto the "CLD shrine" page to show, what
its hardest competitor did? Starting from UU's mega
flop with "The Shadow", which seemed to be used as RAM
expansion only by their software. Then hardware that
was derived from "The Shadow" and maybe was the first
Supercard (probably containing some pirated ROM
routines from a decent fast loader system). Followed
by later hardware items as decribed here.

> Very soon as the Ramboard has been documented I will try to
> make up some info on how to build a supercard plus for both
> the 1541 and the 1571, It has RAM/ROM and support chips on both
> units, unfortunatly both are copies from original boards, One is
> point to point wired in the 1541 version, and the 1571 version is
> proto-boarded with etching solution, however they both work as needed
> with the supercard software, and both pass the test file on the disk.
> the 1541 simply relocates the 6502 chip and the same for the 1571, but
> with the 1571 there is a wire connected to one of the chips on the
> board. All parts are identified, and ROM has allready been dumped to a
> bin file.

Uh, wow! The Supercard contains a custom ROM? May I
ask for a copy of the binary dump? I would like to
investigate it for pirated stuff (under suspicion).

> The best part is the user creatable copier files, that directly
> control the card, you can input tracks densitys and header info and
> filler gap info, also you can create your own sector editing parameter
> files to edit whatever you like to crack the software.

Do you know, if such a software could legally be
used in our days with DCMA and such? Even, if we
walk about 20 years old software, the copyright is
still intact as well as the copy protections. It may
be a good idea to not talk too loudly about this
special aspect these RAM expansions could be used
for.


Womo

Wolfgang Moser

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Jun 28, 2006, 3:40:50 AM6/28/06
to
Hello Snogpitch,

Snogpitch schrieb:


> My manual states that installation information is located on the auxillary
> disk. I'll have to dig out my disks and print out the material to see
> what's on it. Information for the 1541-II is also on that disk, so perhaps
> the other information you need is there as well.

do you have got abilities to make scans or photographies
from that installation manual and D64 files (or NIBs)
from these auxiliary disks? I surely don't need to
mention that I also would be interested much in all this
stuff.


Womo

Snogpitch

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Jun 28, 2006, 7:31:36 AM6/28/06
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I emailed Jim Drew about this very subject a few years back. Here is a
brief snip of our conversation from 2002.

>> And one final question, are you still supporting this product, or has it
>> been released to the public under fair use restrictions?


>I am not supporting this product, but it also has not been released as
>public domain, so copyrights and such will still remain in affect.

On 6/28/06 1:48 AM, in article e7tbk5$900$1...@online.de, "Wolfgang Moser"

Wolfgang Moser

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Jun 28, 2006, 9:53:39 AM6/28/06
to
Hi Snogpitch,

Snogpitch schrieb:


> I emailed Jim Drew about this very subject a few years back. Here is a
> brief snip of our conversation from 2002.
>
>>> And one final question, are you still supporting this product, or has it
>>> been released to the public under fair use restrictions?
>
>
>> I am not supporting this product, but it also has not been released as
>> public domain, so copyrights and such will still remain in affect.

Oh well, this is Mr. Drew as many of
us "love" him for ;-)


He is absolutely right about his copyrights
this is not a point worth discussing. But denying
further support on the other side without opening
up some sort of backdoor for hardware repair
people like Ray Carlsen or Raymond Day due to
that copyright sounds a bit harsch...

So I can only hope that he will not get too angry
about, if I perhaps will publish some docs from
his hardware someday. For sure, I will denote
a statement that copyright still belongs to him
(there's enough room for such in the PDF headers).


It seems that I should try out a test baloon,
contact another well known c.s.c fellow which I
know of got a Supercard 6.0, put the reworked
docs online and then wait for the things that
may happen ??? Still I don't know, if this would
be worth all the effort, most people seem to be
satisfied with the RAMBOard stuff.


Womo


bluebirdpod

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Jun 28, 2006, 10:53:11 AM6/28/06
to

Well this is just a hobby, there is no monetary gain required or needed
or expected. I would like to share knowledge on these items to better
inform the very few people left that would even venture into these
hobby-projects,
to simply backup old software that nobody has been selling for years,
this would be
a very hard process if the original people do not like what this may
progress into, geez these hardware makers helped do exactly what they
dont want to have happen to themselves!, thats ironic, its over done
with, and as written above, lets see what
happens, I mean if something or someone were to ask the information be
removed, so be it.

bluebirdpod

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Jun 28, 2006, 10:58:38 AM6/28/06
to

Wolfgang Moser wrote:
>
> Uh, wow! The Supercard contains a custom ROM? May I
> ask for a copy of the binary dump? I would like to
> investigate it for pirated stuff (under suspicion).
>
> > The best part is the user creatable copier files, that directly
> > control the card, you can input tracks densitys and header info and
> > filler gap info, also you can create your own sector editing parameter
> > files to edit whatever you like to crack the software.
>
> Do you know, if such a software could legally be
> used in our days with DCMA and such? Even, if we
> walk about 20 years old software, the copyright is
> still intact as well as the copy protections. It may
> be a good idea to not talk too loudly about this
> special aspect these RAM expansions could be used
> for.
>
>
> Womo

It states that the decoding is the not allowed part, making exact
copies without removing the original coding is something that is not
written in the wording. so in otherwords cloneing and leaving all
original code intact would seem to me not apply to the wording of
above.

Womo, email me using my address above in the original post. I have
access to a eprom burner and such. lets do some investigative work.

Snogpitch

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Jun 29, 2006, 12:11:40 AM6/29/06
to
I checked my disk collection. It includes V1 V2 and V3. I'll archive the
six sides within the next several days. If the most recent is V6 then I
have a need for newer versions.

On 6/28/06 3:40 AM, in article e7tbq2$9ie$1...@online.de, "Wolfgang Moser"

bluebirdpod

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Jun 29, 2006, 12:52:19 AM6/29/06
to

this is what I have three versions of supercard regular and five
versions of supercard plus
the regular NON-PLUS supercard software uses ram $8000 like the
ramboard and you can use it with a ramboard, the plus version uses a
custom rom on the supercard plus board and uses ram $6000 and will not
work with a ramboard.

Sc1.d64
SC5D1S1.D64
SC5D1S2.D64
Sc6d1s1.d64
Sc6d1s2.d64


Scp1.d64
SCP2D1S1.D64
SCP2D1S2.D64
SCP3D1S1.D64
SCP3D1S2.D64
SCP5D1S1.D64
SCP5D1S2.D64
SCP6D1S1.D64
SCP6D1S2.D64
SCP6D2.D64

the plus version works with both 1541 plus and 1571 plus supercards.
the NON-PLUS version will work with a ramboard or NON-PLUS supercard
at ram location $8000, Maverick will work with any of the boards so
long as you
pick the correct ram location of the boards.

Like I said before I read the 1571 SPEED ADJ SEQ file and it only says
to follow the diagram to connect a speed control to the drive, it does
not say where what or anything.
there is a little program on the disk to print to the screen S or
printer P

-bb

bluebirdpod

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Jun 29, 2006, 12:55:43 AM6/29/06
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Snogpitch wrote:
> I checked my disk collection. It includes V1 V2 and V3. I'll archive the
> six sides within the next several days. If the most recent is V6 then I
> have a need for newer versions.
>


Does the original documentation show anything about the speed control.
a picture or diagram or anything as the such ??

-bb

Snogpitch

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Jun 29, 2006, 7:44:34 AM6/29/06
to
Referenced in the readme (1571 SPEED ADJ) instructions is Figure 5. The
figure 5 in my manual has poor image quality, and it is difficult to
determine what the arrows are pointing to.

The image is a shot looking at the mech from the bottom.

Total pages in my dox: 8

On 6/29/06 12:55 AM, in article
1151556943....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "bluebirdpod"

gamemaste

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Jun 29, 2006, 10:24:54 AM6/29/06
to
On 6/28/2006 1:48 AM, Wolfgang Moser wrote:

> Uh, wow! The Supercard contains a custom ROM? May I
> ask for a copy of the binary dump? I would like to
> investigate it for pirated stuff (under suspicion).

Yes it does. It can do several things that a Ramboard can only dream
of. I always wanted to get my hands on a supercard but never did
(bought a Ramboard before I heard/saw a supercard in action...two
words....oooo sweet).

-Game

Wolfgang Moser

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Jun 29, 2006, 4:51:04 PM6/29/06
to
Hello c.s.c fellows,

thank you all for your contributions. I got some
private email from addicted people who either send
informations, pictures or disk images about either
the CLD RAMBOard, the CLD Speed Control box or
finally the Supercard series.
I surely will need a couple of weeks to seek
through this stuff, clean things up and create
digitally preserved representations for electronic
(re-) publishing.

As long as it belongs to CLD's products, sharing
decent informations about their product via my
personal and private website will get suffered by
CLD. Comments from different people let me
believe this.

Regarding products from Utilities Unlimited I
got warned to not publish a bit of information
publically, at least to not publish digitally
preserved (copied) stuff.
I will need to find a more abstract way to share
knowledge about UU's hardware and documentation.

Womo

bluebirdpod

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Jun 29, 2006, 7:17:00 PM6/29/06
to

Wolfgang Moser wrote:
> Hello c.s.c fellows,
>
> thank you all for your contributions. I got some
> private email from addicted people who either send
> informations, pictures or disk images about either
> the CLD RAMBOard, the CLD Speed Control box or
> Womo


Hey I am still needing the speed control info, if that could be passed
along to
me I would sure appreciate it, Photo Copy would be great to have, if
not a scanned image.

-BB

Wolfgang Moser

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Jul 1, 2006, 2:57:15 AM7/1/06
to
Hello snogpith, bluebird,

Snogpitch schrieb:


> Referenced in the readme (1571 SPEED ADJ) instructions is Figure 5.

there are some more important comments about Speed Control.
The manual mentions a program called "SPEED CHECK" that
should be regularly used to ensure that the drives RPM is
in the range of 298.0 +/- 0.20 RPM. It explicitly says:

"[...], DO NOT let the drive speed fall below 297.5!"

This clears out one thing: Supercard+ for the 1571 _did_
know a way on how to adjust the direct driven motor below
a speed of 300.0 RPM and more over below 298.5, a value
that a contributor reported to me could be gained with a
simple switch.

> The figure 5 in my manual has poor image quality, and it is difficult
> to determine what the arrows are pointing to.
>
> The image is a shot looking at the mech from the bottom.

I got a short look on it now and it really is difficult
to decide where the arrows point to. I tried revealing
some details with photoshop and then extrapolating the
lines. There are only four possible contacts that could
be meant.

I took a fresh shot from one of my own drives and tried
to replicate the arrow lines as good possible. This
should illustrate, which of the fours contact pins I'm
talking of. Maybe the lucky owner of a _installed_
Supercard+ for the 1571 is able to tell, which of the
four named contacts, a1, a2, b1 or b2 is in fact used.

Refer to: http://d81.de/shared/1571_MotorControl.jpg


Womo

Rusty

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Jul 24, 2006, 9:38:25 AM7/24/06
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Hi,

Would you consider selling the 1541 Speed Box? I would offer a good
amount!

Tim

Dragos

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Jul 24, 2006, 11:51:52 AM7/24/06
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I am not afraid to post the information and d64s, send it to me, i'll
make it available.

I seriously doubt the likelyhood of a lawsuit regarding obsolete
hardware and will accept the risk.

if he can't support it or release it, his words mean nothing to me.

bluebirdpod

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Nov 11, 2018, 2:08:58 AM11/11/18
to

Well its many years later! wow, I finally disassembled the entire spindle motor from my 1541-II that is direct drive, there is a Mitsubishi 3 phase motor controller chip M51784P it is a 36pin chip here is the datasheet

http://www.datasheetcafe.com/m51784p-datasheet-motor-control-mitsubishi/

pin 34 says speed control, but it is currently grounded. it shows 1:1 or 1:2 not sure what would happen if it was disconnected from ground.

The 1571 has a hitachi chip HA13432 24pin chip that I cannot translate the Japanese or Chinese to help my life, but it looks like the speed controller is changing the R/C circuit to change the pulse modulation that the chip is referencing to adjust speed.

https://datasheet.octopart.com/HA13432-Hitachi-datasheet-106076.pdf

this post from lord cross references connecting but not where on Lemon64

https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66390&sid=14068c5de33f2ae59ce65247ffd2951a

Now if only I could figure out what pin 9 does on the 1571 Hitachi chip then maybe this can be applied to the 1541-II Mitsubishi chip, I think ultimately this was probably used on 5.25 1.2meg high density floppy drives and that would be used to change the speed from 300 to 360 rpm

have a look and if anybody can figure this one out, then please let us know. Geez everything else has been figured out, even the PLA and the Vic Clock chip.

-BBP
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