SCPU64 or SCPU128?

Lars Forsberg

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Jan 2, 2001, 10:10:30 AM1/2/01

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I'm thinking of buying a SCPU but I have some questions about it:

1. I plan of using my C128D since that one got the power supply needed to
run the SCPU. I understand that the C128 can use a SCPU64 (but only
in C64-mode), but since I'm going to use a C128 I might as well buy a
SCPU128. Is the SCPU128 fully compatible with the SCPU64 so that I can
run all the SCPU64 software when being in C64-mode?

2. If I buy a SCPU64 I could use it with my C64:s as well if I just get
a power supply that can give the power that is needed. What about the
SCPU128? Can it be used and behave like a SCPU64 if I try to use it
with a C64?

3. Do I need something special to get the SCPU128 to run with my C128, or
is it just to plug it in?

/ Lars Forsberg

Todd Elliott

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Jan 2, 2001, 12:24:48 PM1/2/01

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Lars Forsberg <l...@pdc.kth.se> wrote:
> 1. I plan of using my C128D since that one got the power supply needed to
> run the SCPU. I understand that the C128 can use a SCPU64 (but only
> in C64-mode), but since I'm going to use a C128 I might as well buy a
> SCPU128. Is the SCPU128 fully compatible with the SCPU64 so that I can
> run all the SCPU64 software when being in C64-mode?
>

Yes, the 64 mode of the SuperCPU 128 is compatible with SuperCPU 64
specific programs.

> 2. If I buy a SCPU64 I could use it with my C64:s as well if I just get
> a power supply that can give the power that is needed. What about the
> SCPU128? Can it be used and behave like a SCPU64 if I try to use it
> with a C64?
>

Yes, that is correct. A SuperCPU 128, when plugged into a C=64, will act
like a SuperrCPU 64.

> 3. Do I need something special to get the SCPU128 to run with my C128, or
> is it just to plug it in?
>

Sadly, it is not a plug-n-play affair. With the SuperCPU 128, you need
to install a daughterboard on the c128's motherboard for complete
SuperCPU 128 operation. However, complete installation instructions are
included and it is relatively easy to do. I didn't even have to use my
soldering iron as the chips were socketed.

Enjoy.
--
Todd Elliott

Matthew Montchalin

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Jan 2, 2001, 4:47:01 PM1/2/01

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The notes over at http://www.cmdweb.com/cbm/supercpu/v2info.html
seem to indicate that the MMU is still available to the programmer
in SuperCPU 128 mode, and by judicious adjustment, the ROM image is
accessible in one of the alternate banks of RAM? And that a programmer
can customize the C-64 ROM image, as well as the C-128 ROM image, by
setting the MMU appropriately, and storing into the ROM in RAM?

For instance, we know that with a regular C-128, you can LDA #$3F STA
$FF00 to select RAM 0, and LDA #$7F STA $FF00 to select RAM 1, but there
is apparently a way of getting to the extra 2 banks of 64K RAM where an
image (or two) is available of the C-64 and C-128 romsets?

Can you or anyone comment on this? I'm tempted to buy one, but I
need more information on how the MMU behaves when in SuperCPU 128 mode.

Matthew Montchalin

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Jan 3, 2001, 1:31:53 AM1/3/01

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On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Matthew Montchalin wrote:

|The notes over at http://www.cmdweb.com/cbm/supercpu/v2info.html
|seem to indicate that the MMU is still available to the programmer
|in SuperCPU 128 mode, and by judicious adjustment, the ROM image is
|accessible in one of the alternate banks of RAM? And that a programmer
|can customize the C-64 ROM image, as well as the C-128 ROM image, by
|setting the MMU appropriately, and storing into the ROM in RAM?

The programmer notes seem to assume that some of us have the SuperCPU
C64 to try out. Of course, I don't, but if I were to get a SuperCPU
it would be for the C-128, the "cadillac" of 6502 environments. But
anyway, I went ahead and subscribed to the mailing list being operated
through a listserver, and maybe my confusion will start to clear up?

As it is, it sounds incredibly tempting to have a 256K "SuperCPU 128"
where the C-64 and C-128 ROMs are mirrored into the two extra banks
of 64K, and I'm wondering if this is too good to be true. When one
tinkers with the C-64 image, by fiddling with the MMU to bring it
in (if that *is* the way to do it, and I'm not sure), then flipping
to C-64 mode, that would be a truly incredible way of putting together
a "substitute" C-64 OS without having to resort to a ROM burner...

Can anyone comment?

Anthony G Beckett

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Jan 3, 2001, 7:34:38 AM1/3/01

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TE> Yes, that is correct. A SuperCPU 128, when plugged into a C=64, TE> will

act like a SuperrCPU 64.

So you're saying that it would be stupid to buy a SuperCPU64 ? There is no
compatability issues if I buy a SCPU128 for a 64?

Just want to make sure!

Thanks;
--
Regards,

Anthony Beckett
http://pcmuseum.i-o.net.au

MagerValp

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Jan 3, 2001, 11:22:56 AM1/3/01

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>>>>> "AGB" == Anthony G Beckett <a.be...@bigfoot.com> writes:

AGB> So you're saying that it would be stupid to buy a SuperCPU64 ?
AGB> There is no compatability issues if I buy a SCPU128 for a 64?

The difference between the SCPU128 and the SCPU64[0] is the MMU
adaptor board.

[0] only true for v2, not the older SCPU64 v1.

--
___ . . . . . + . . o
_|___|_ + . + . + . . Per Olofsson, konstnär
o-o . . . o + Mage...@cling.gu.se
- + + . http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/

Matthew Montchalin

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Jan 3, 2001, 3:36:05 PM1/3/01

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On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Anthony G Beckett wrote:

|TE> Yes, that is correct. A SuperCPU 128, when plugged into a C=64, TE> will
|act like a SuperrCPU 64.
|
|So you're saying that it would be stupid to buy a SuperCPU64 ? There is no
|compatability issues if I buy a SCPU128 for a 64?
|
|Just want to make sure!

Wait a second, isn't the SCPU128 intended for installation in a C-128?

Or is it possible to put it in a stock C-64 and thereby have 256K RAM
divided into 4 banks of RAM, and all of the hardware registers ordinarily
available to a C-128? I doubt it. Even if you plug this SCPU128 card
into the back of a C-64, I don't see how you are going to get 80 column
displays because the 8563 chip still isn't there.

Todd Elliott

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Jan 3, 2001, 7:14:00 PM1/3/01

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Anthony G Beckett <a.be...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> TE> Yes, that is correct. A SuperCPU 128, when plugged into a C=64, TE> will
> act like a SuperrCPU 64.

> So you're saying that it would be stupid to buy a SuperCPU64 ? There is no
> compatability issues if I buy a SCPU128 for a 64?
>

Yes, there should be no compatibility issues should you buy a SuperCPU
128 for your C=64. You just can't use the MMU daughterboard as this is
for the C=128. However, the SuperCPU 128 will plug in just fine to a
Commodore 64 and work as if it was a SuperCPU 64. You will need a
heavy-duty powersupply for the Commodore 64, though, in order for it to
support the increased power requirements of the SuperCPU 128.

You can save the MMU daughterboard until you finally get a Commodore 128
or 128D model and then you can use the full abilities of the SuperCPU
128.

Enjoy.
--
Todd Elliott

Matthew Montchalin

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Jan 4, 2001, 12:06:26 AM1/4/01

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On 4 Jan 2001, Todd Elliott wrote:
|You can save the MMU daughterboard until you finally get a Commodore 128
|or 128D model and then you can use the full abilities of the SuperCPU
|128.

I'm on the verge of getting a SuperCPU128 for my C-128, but am rather
klutzy when it comes to installing things. What am I to expect in order
to plug the cartridge in? Will I also have to open up my (flat) C-128
and solder anything?

Rusure

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Jan 4, 2001, 10:23:21 AM1/4/01

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RE: Re: SCPU64 or SCPU128?
BY: Matthew Montchalin <mmon...@OregonVOS.net>

-> Date........ Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:06:26 -0800

-> On 4 Jan 2001, Todd Elliott wrote:
-> |You can save the MMU daughterboard until you
-> |finally get a Commodore 128 or 128D model and then
-> |you can use the full abilities of the SuperCPU8.

-> I'm on the verge of getting a SuperCPU128 for my
-> C-128, but am rather klutzy when it comes to
-> installing things. What am I to expect in order
-> to plug the cartridge in? Will I also have to
-> open up my (flat) C-128 and solder anything?

I think we have a PERFECT match here. I need to sell a
SuperCPU128 that has its MMU daughter board already installed
in a flat C128 by its former owner. I consider myself a
klutz as well and don't have the confidence to remove the
thing from the computer. The C128 also has installed, an RGB
video memory expansion daughter board and a KEYDOS as well.

Anyway, you can contact me as
follows for a formal proposal:

EMAIL : rus...@usa.net
PHONE : 970 221 2358
REGULAR ADDRESS : Paul Rosenzweig
420 South Loomis Avenue, Basement
Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
USA

PS : I am not an English Lit hauncho but I recall reading in
College, `The Cocktail Party' a poem by T. S. Elliot
about a perfectly matched couple. He was incapable of
loving and she was incapable of being loved.

I hope that our possible match will
result in the consumation of a deal that
will prove more satisfying to both of us.

--
"Roadkill on the Information Superhighway..."
ToV WWIV 4.30 @971.Filenet Loveland, CO
wiz {at} lart {dot} com Sprechen sie LART?
TINLC (If there were, you couldn't tell if I were part of it or not)

Matthew Montchalin

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Jan 5, 2001, 12:45:10 AM1/5/01

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For instance, I successfully got the extra RAM chips soldered into
the MSD-2 when I installed Lawrence Hiler's FastCopy ROM, but it
was a miracle because I usually burn myself (and other things) when
I play with soldering irons.

|-> What am I to expect in order to plug the cartridge in? Will I
|-> also have to open up my (flat) C-128 and solder anything?

|
|I think we have a PERFECT match here. I need to sell a
|SuperCPU128 that has its MMU daughter board already installed
|in a flat C128 by its former owner.

Well, I do need at least one, but was thinking of getting two, one
for each of the rooms that currently have no computer in them.

|I consider myself a klutz as well and don't have the confidence to
|remove the thing from the computer. The C128 also has installed,
|an RGB video memory expansion daughter board and a KEYDOS as well.

Sounds tempting. I look forward to occupying a great deal of my
time to this thing, and ignoring Internet in the meantime. (So
all of you guys will be free of my boring little quibbles and
pontifications.)

Cool anecdote. And if only I had one of my limericks out of
humanities.classics that was equally suitable to attaching to
this message. :)

Rusure

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Jan 5, 2001, 11:55:28 AM1/5/01

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RE: Re: SCPU64 or SCPU128?
BY: Matthew Montchalin <mmon...@OregonVOS.net>

-> Date........ Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:45:10 -0800

-> For instance, I successfully got the extra RAM
-> chips soldered into the MSD-2 when I installed
-> Lawrence Hiler's FastCopy ROM, but it was a
-> miracle because I usually burn myself (and
-> other things) when I play with soldering irons.

Not that I want to talk myself out of a possible deal,
but my SCPU128's MMU daughterboard is installed into
a socket in the C128 without solder. If the original
MMU chip was socketed, then you will be able to
remove it without desoldering as well. You may want
to open up a wrecked flat C128 to scout out the
anatomy before you operate on a breathing computer.

I have problems even with socketed chips. I
tend to bend pins of the chips that I remove and
install. What ever you decide, BE CAREFUL!!

Pekka "Pihti" Takala

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Jan 5, 2001, 4:55:06 PM1/5/01

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Rusure wrote:
>
> RE: Re: SCPU64 or SCPU128?
> BY: Matthew Montchalin <mmon...@OregonVOS.net>
>
> -> Date........ Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:45:10 -0800
>
> -> For instance, I successfully got the extra RAM
> -> chips soldered into the MSD-2 when I installed
> -> Lawrence Hiler's FastCopy ROM, but it was a
> -> miracle because I usually burn myself (and
> -> other things) when I play with soldering irons.
>
> Not that I want to talk myself out of a possible deal,
> but my SCPU128's MMU daughterboard is installed into
> a socket in the C128 without solder. If the original
> MMU chip was socketed, then you will be able to
> remove it without desoldering as well. You may want
> to open up a wrecked flat C128 to scout out the
> anatomy before you operate on a breathing computer.
>
> I have problems even with socketed chips. I
> tend to bend pins of the chips that I remove and
> install. What ever you decide, BE CAREFUL!!

If you want to take them without bending pins, take it off using a
screwdriver and BE PATIENT, take it a bit from other side, a bit from
other side. It gets up and its pins stay staight. Hurrying is not good
in this. If you try to take the ic-s just by using your fingers, they
always get their pins bent. Believe me, a screwdriver used carefully
helps a lot. If you do not have a suitable screwdriver, do not do that.

fig. 1

*******************
------------ *******************
|screwdriver |-----------|||||||||||||||||||
------------ -------------------
|chip socket |

Move the screwdriver slowly under the chip. Its screwdriver edge raises.
Then, pull the screwdriver out and put it in from another side slowly.
Ensure that your screwdriver is perfectly in the middle of the chip when
you do the above.
Then, use the screwdriver carefully to slowly get the chip off socket.
Be careful not to damage the pcb under the chip socket since it is very
hard to repair.
After you have gotten the chip loosen, take it CAREFULLY off the socket.
If it does not come easily, take a bigger screwdriver and raise the chip
more. The chip must be completely loosen before you take the chip by
hand. Do not do this if your hands shiver, even a bit. If you cannot
help your hand's shivering, ask for a friend who knows what to do to
take the chip off.

--
*Pekka "Pihti" Takala *pekka....@pp.inet.fi
*gsm/sms +358405670465 *
*http://personal.inet.fi/atk/pekka.takala