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WTB: PAL C64
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s1
Jul 18, 2013, 1:47:08 AM7/18/13
to
I'm in the US and looking to buy a PAL C64.
My plan is to get one as cheaply as possible, use a power transformer:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goldsource-STU-200-W-Watt-Step-Up-Down-110V-220V-Voltage-Converter-Transformer-/160733087308?pt=Travel_Adapters_Converters&hash=item256c70464c
then attempt to use one of these s-video to hdmi converters:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R7.TR11.TRC1.A0.Xs+video+.TRS0&_nkw=s+video+to+hdmi+converter&_sacat=0&_from=R40
If that doesn't work I would then be looking to also buy a PAL TV or monitor.
If anyone has any experiences with this type of setup please explain.
Thanks.
My plan is to get one as cheaply as possible, use a power transformer:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goldsource-STU-200-W-Watt-Step-Up-Down-110V-220V-Voltage-Converter-Transformer-/160733087308?pt=Travel_Adapters_Converters&hash=item256c70464c
then attempt to use one of these s-video to hdmi converters:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R7.TR11.TRC1.A0.Xs+video+.TRS0&_nkw=s+video+to+hdmi+converter&_sacat=0&_from=R40
If that doesn't work I would then be looking to also buy a PAL TV or monitor.
If anyone has any experiences with this type of setup please explain.
Thanks.
Robert Roland
Jul 18, 2013, 8:18:35 AM7/18/13
to
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 22:47:08 -0700 (PDT), s1
<christi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'm in the US and looking to buy a PAL C64.
Try ebay.de or ebay.co.uk. Many of the sellers there are willing to
<christi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I'm in the US and looking to buy a PAL C64.
ship outside Germany and UK.
>My plan is to get one as cheaply as possible, use a power transformer:
>
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goldsource-STU-200-W-Watt-Step-Up-Down-110V-220V-Voltage-Converter-Transformer-/160733087308?pt=Travel_Adapters_Converters&hash=item256c70464c
the AC supply frequency to be accurate, this will not work.
On the other hand, if the freqency is not critical, perhaps a US power
supply will work with a PAL C64?
I know the C64 takes 9V AC on the power input, but I do not know what
it is used for, so I do not know if the frequency is critical.
--
RoRo
M1Ch3L3
Jul 18, 2013, 10:05:53 AM7/18/13
to
"s1" <christi...@yahoo.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:979a7bda-35fd-4691...@googlegroups.com...
bit expensive
Martijn van Buul
Jul 18, 2013, 10:20:28 AM7/18/13
to
* Robert Roland:
> This device will convert voltage, but not frequecy. If the C64 needs
> the AC supply frequency to be accurate, this will not work.
>
> On the other hand, if the freqency is not critical, perhaps a US power
> supply will work with a PAL C64?
That would have the very same result: A PAL C64 fed with 9V @ 60 Hz instead
of 50 Hz
> I know the C64 takes 9V AC on the power input, but I do not know what
> it is used for, so I do not know if the frequency is critical.
The 9V is used
* To feed to the Userport (unless you have the one C64 model where this
was omitted)
* To feed the casette port ( I think)
* To generate the reference voltages for SID (and 6581 VIC)
* to trigger the CIA's Time Of Day clock.
The only real issue is with the CIA; as the CIA needs to be informed whether
to expect a 50 or 60 Hz mains, most software that actually use the TOD clock
will check the video mode, and assume "PAL = 50 Hz, NTSC = 60 Hz". In this
case, you'd end up with the wrong configuration, resulting in a clock that
is 20% fast.
So yes, compatibility will take a hit, although AFAIK there isn't much
software that really needs the TOD.
A cheap, if not completely authentic, solution would be to hack together
a "dual wall-wart supply" - one supplying 9VAC, one supplying 5DC. Just
makes sure they're connected correctly, and always connect BOTH.
An alternative would be doing something like the converter on
http://www.ide64.org/stuff.html
but note the caveats: You cannot use the C64's power switch, and since it's
not really AC, and don't connect anythign to the userport that uses 9VAC
--
Martijn van Buul - pi...@dohd.org
> This device will convert voltage, but not frequecy. If the C64 needs
> the AC supply frequency to be accurate, this will not work.
>
> On the other hand, if the freqency is not critical, perhaps a US power
> supply will work with a PAL C64?
of 50 Hz
> I know the C64 takes 9V AC on the power input, but I do not know what
> it is used for, so I do not know if the frequency is critical.
* To feed to the Userport (unless you have the one C64 model where this
was omitted)
* To feed the casette port ( I think)
* To generate the reference voltages for SID (and 6581 VIC)
* to trigger the CIA's Time Of Day clock.
The only real issue is with the CIA; as the CIA needs to be informed whether
to expect a 50 or 60 Hz mains, most software that actually use the TOD clock
will check the video mode, and assume "PAL = 50 Hz, NTSC = 60 Hz". In this
case, you'd end up with the wrong configuration, resulting in a clock that
is 20% fast.
So yes, compatibility will take a hit, although AFAIK there isn't much
software that really needs the TOD.
A cheap, if not completely authentic, solution would be to hack together
a "dual wall-wart supply" - one supplying 9VAC, one supplying 5DC. Just
makes sure they're connected correctly, and always connect BOTH.
An alternative would be doing something like the converter on
http://www.ide64.org/stuff.html
but note the caveats: You cannot use the C64's power switch, and since it's
not really AC, and don't connect anythign to the userport that uses 9VAC
--
Martijn van Buul - pi...@dohd.org
s1
Jul 18, 2013, 5:05:06 PM7/18/13
to
The point of using a PAL system would be for PAL compatibility.
I guess I've been wrong in my assumptions. What would it take to get a C64 to run as PAL compatible in the US?
Simply something that converts the 9VAC from 60Hz to 50Hz for the CIA and SID (not worried about the Userport and cassette port)?
The computer would still need to be PAL? Changing the 9VAC freq on an NTSC machine wouldn't have the same result?
Thanks.
I guess I've been wrong in my assumptions. What would it take to get a C64 to run as PAL compatible in the US?
Simply something that converts the 9VAC from 60Hz to 50Hz for the CIA and SID (not worried about the Userport and cassette port)?
The computer would still need to be PAL? Changing the 9VAC freq on an NTSC machine wouldn't have the same result?
Thanks.
Martijn van Buul
Jul 19, 2013, 5:43:08 AM7/19/13
to
* s1:
5V and 12V (for old sid) internally, but the SID never "sees" the mains
frequency.
> The computer would still need to be PAL? Changing the 9VAC freq on an NTSC
> machine wouldn't have the same result?
No. The main differences between a PAL C64 and a NTSC C64 are:
1) The master clock frequency is higher on NTSC (1.023 MHz on NTSC, 0.985
MHz on PAL). This is implemented by means of a different crystal and
a different frequency division on the main board (selectable via a
jumper)
2) The PAL VIC is a different chip than an NTSC VIC. Display timing is
different due to the different video formats; an NTSC C64 has 65
clock cycles per raster line, a PAL C64 has 64. However, since the amount
of raster lines is different too, a PAL C64 has more clock cycles
*per frame* than an NTSC C64.
The display timing differences are the main cause of compatibility
issues between NTSC and C64, especially in games. Most of the more
advanced graphic tricks require cycle-exact programming. You cannot
get PAL timings on an NTSC chip, or vice versa.
For sake of completeness, there was also a PAL-N version of the C64
(used in the Argentinian "Drean C64") which kind of combined features
from both worlds. See
http://www.solidstate.com.ar/2011/06/flashback-vic-ii-timings/
for some details.
3) The mains frequency is different. This really only impacts the CIA's
TOD clock, which isn't used often.
If you want to *properly* run a PAL C64 in NTSC-land, you need to generate
a 50 Hz 9VAC line. If you don't intend to run Userport perepherals that use
the 9VAC line, you could probably go for the solution I posted before; I
think I would use a 1:1 transformer between that and the C64 in order
to get the desired galvanic isolation.
> The point of using a PAL system would be for PAL compatibility.
>
> I guess I've been wrong in my assumptions. What would it take to get a C64 to
> run as PAL compatible in the US?
>
> Simply something that converts the 9VAC from 60Hz to 50Hz for the CIA and SID
> (not worried about the Userport and cassette port)?
The SID doesn't need the 9V AC to be *50 Hz*; it is converted to a secondary
>
> I guess I've been wrong in my assumptions. What would it take to get a C64 to
> run as PAL compatible in the US?
>
> Simply something that converts the 9VAC from 60Hz to 50Hz for the CIA and SID
> (not worried about the Userport and cassette port)?
5V and 12V (for old sid) internally, but the SID never "sees" the mains
frequency.
> The computer would still need to be PAL? Changing the 9VAC freq on an NTSC
> machine wouldn't have the same result?
1) The master clock frequency is higher on NTSC (1.023 MHz on NTSC, 0.985
MHz on PAL). This is implemented by means of a different crystal and
a different frequency division on the main board (selectable via a
jumper)
2) The PAL VIC is a different chip than an NTSC VIC. Display timing is
different due to the different video formats; an NTSC C64 has 65
clock cycles per raster line, a PAL C64 has 64. However, since the amount
of raster lines is different too, a PAL C64 has more clock cycles
*per frame* than an NTSC C64.
The display timing differences are the main cause of compatibility
issues between NTSC and C64, especially in games. Most of the more
advanced graphic tricks require cycle-exact programming. You cannot
get PAL timings on an NTSC chip, or vice versa.
For sake of completeness, there was also a PAL-N version of the C64
(used in the Argentinian "Drean C64") which kind of combined features
from both worlds. See
http://www.solidstate.com.ar/2011/06/flashback-vic-ii-timings/
for some details.
3) The mains frequency is different. This really only impacts the CIA's
TOD clock, which isn't used often.
If you want to *properly* run a PAL C64 in NTSC-land, you need to generate
a 50 Hz 9VAC line. If you don't intend to run Userport perepherals that use
the 9VAC line, you could probably go for the solution I posted before; I
think I would use a 1:1 transformer between that and the C64 in order
to get the desired galvanic isolation.
s1
Jul 19, 2013, 12:50:39 PM7/19/13
to
Let's see if I got this right:
(1) PAL VIC II
(2) Crystal jumper and PAL crystal
(3) 50 Hz 9VAC (for TOD and Userport compatibility)
Thanks for your help.
(1) PAL VIC II
(2) Crystal jumper and PAL crystal
(3) 50 Hz 9VAC (for TOD and Userport compatibility)
Thanks for your help.
James @ cbm264
Jul 19, 2013, 3:18:13 PM7/19/13
to
On Friday, July 19, 2013 11:50:39 AM UTC-5, s1 wrote:
> Let's see if I got this right:
> (1) PAL VIC II
> (2) Crystal jumper and PAL crystal
> (3) 50 Hz 9VAC (for TOD and Userport compatibility)
If you want to avoid disk errors, you might want to convert a 1541 too. I can't imagine a 64 synced to 50Hz would keep up with a 1541 synced to 60Hz. :(
> Let's see if I got this right:
> (1) PAL VIC II
> (2) Crystal jumper and PAL crystal
> (3) 50 Hz 9VAC (for TOD and Userport compatibility)
s1
Jul 19, 2013, 9:52:23 PM7/19/13
to
On Friday, July 19, 2013 2:18:13 PM UTC-5, James @ cbm264 wrote:
> If you want to avoid disk errors, you might want to convert a 1541 too. I can't imagine a 64 synced to 50Hz would keep up with a 1541 synced to 60Hz. :(
Aha. Good point. I was hoping to get a 1541 Ultimate but they are sold out right now.
> If you want to avoid disk errors, you might want to convert a 1541 too. I can't imagine a 64 synced to 50Hz would keep up with a 1541 synced to 60Hz. :(
How would PALing a 1541/1571 go?
Ray Carlsen
Jul 19, 2013, 10:29:34 PM7/19/13
to
>> If you want to avoid disk errors, you might want to convert a 1541
>> too. I can't imagine a 64 synced to 50Hz would keep up with a 1541
>> synced to 60Hz. :(
>
> Aha. Good point. I was hoping to get a 1541 Ultimate but they are
> sold out right now.
>
> How would PALing a 1541/1571 go?
for anything other than creating the two DC voltages for the drive: 5
volts for the chips and 12 volts for the motors. There is no such thing
as an NTSC or PAL disk drive.
Ray
Clocky
Jul 20, 2013, 4:26:46 AM7/20/13
to
if that helps.
Dombo
Jul 20, 2013, 6:08:47 PM7/20/13
to
Op 19-Jul-13 18:50, s1 schreef:
And a monitor that can handle PAL signals.
Dombo
Jul 20, 2013, 6:09:42 PM7/20/13
to
Op 19-Jul-13 21:18, James @ cbm264 schreef:
Neither the C64 nor the 1541 sync to the mains frequency. The only
(logic) part of the C64 that sees the mains frequency is the CIA chip,
which (as said before) uses the main frequency for the rarely used
Time-of-Day clock. The rest of the C64 (or 1541 for that matter) is
blissfully unaware of the mains frequency.
(logic) part of the C64 that sees the mains frequency is the CIA chip,
which (as said before) uses the main frequency for the rarely used
Time-of-Day clock. The rest of the C64 (or 1541 for that matter) is
blissfully unaware of the mains frequency.
s1
Jul 20, 2013, 8:14:54 PM7/20/13
to
On Thursday, July 18, 2013 9:05:53 AM UTC-5, M1Ch3L3 wrote:
>
> Hi mate, i have a 64C PAL but i'm from italy so the shipping cost can be a
>
> bit expensive
Hi M1Ch3L3,
>
> Hi mate, i have a 64C PAL but i'm from italy so the shipping cost can be a
>
> bit expensive
I am now looking for a PAL VIC II and Crystal, or PAL C64 keyboard without power supply or peripherals.
M1Ch3L3
Jul 21, 2013, 8:57:28 AM7/21/13
to
news:e69e6bc4-06f9-4c85...@googlegroups.com...
Do you mean C64 breadbin or 64C white?
s1
Jul 21, 2013, 6:18:18 PM7/21/13
to
On Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:57:28 AM UTC-5, M1Ch3L3 wrote:
> Do you mean C64 breadbin or 64C white?
I'd prefer white but breadbin is fine too.
> Do you mean C64 breadbin or 64C white?
M1Ch3L3
Jul 22, 2013, 1:25:23 AM7/22/13
to
news:489f0f2b-5900-4235...@googlegroups.com...
maybe shipping cost will not a bargain for you... if you want make me an
offer, my email is valid if you remove NOSPAM from that.
> On Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:57:28 AM UTC-5, M1Ch3L3 wrote:
>
>> Do you mean C64 breadbin or 64C white?
>
> I'd prefer white but breadbin is fine too.
I have a white 64C PAL, but remember that I'm from italy, if you are in usa
>
>> Do you mean C64 breadbin or 64C white?
>
> I'd prefer white but breadbin is fine too.
maybe shipping cost will not a bargain for you... if you want make me an
offer, my email is valid if you remove NOSPAM from that.
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