Best Commodore keyboard?
dun...@yahoo.com
Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
Paul
Clockmeister
<dun...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139044532.6...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
>
Neh, the original Amiga 1000 keyboard feels better.
Pasi Ojala
> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
But the VIC20 keyboard is identical. How come it feels different?
-Pasi
--
/The really odd thing about human sex, though, was the way it went on even
when people were fully clothed and sitting on opposite sides of a fire.
It was in the things they said and did not say, the way they looked at one
another and looked away./ -- Gaspode in Discworld:"The Fifth Elephant"
Leif Bloomquist
news:slrndu99jr...@pikkukorppi.cs.tut.fi...
> But the VIC20 keyboard is identical. How come it feels different?
Maybe he meant the 64C? I find it much better to type on than the C64 or
VIC, personally.
My vote for best Commodore keyboard goes to the C65, actually. Nice mix of
64C and Amiga layout and feel to the keys.
Regards,
Leif
Steve
> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
>
> Paul
I remember way back in the mists of time that my friend had a breadbin C64
and removed all the keys and snipped some length of the key springs. That
was great keyboard!
Steve.
David Murray
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
Actually, without a doubt the Plus/4 gets my vote for best keyboard to type
on. I think I'd rank the Amiga 500 next, followed by the C64c and 128.
Then the Amiga 1000, and last rankings would be the original 64 and Vic-20.
Actually, that's not true. Last rankings would be for the old PET with the
square keys and the 264 series with the membrane keyboards.
The reason I don't like the Amiga 1000 keboard better than the 500 is
placement of some of the keys, particularly the arrow keys. The reason I
don't like the original VIC20, 64, and C16 is because how tall the keyboard
is.
--DavidM
zeem
> On 2006-02-04, dun...@yahoo.com <dun...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
>> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
>
> But the VIC20 keyboard is identical. How come it feels different?
>
1970s-looking keyboard. It looked nice but didn't work very well. The
keys moved sideways too much and rubbed on each other as you pressed
them, making them stiff and uncomfortable.
I wonder where that machine is now. I loved it for its seeming rarity,
but sold it in a big lot with all my other 8-bit CBMs.
--
Alex Taylor
Lige Hensley
automatically lose!
I kinda like the 128 myself...
silverdr
> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
VIC had AFAIR the same keyboard as the 64. Amiga... there were tons of
different keayboards with different feel/quality.
Trolling mood again? ;-)
dun...@yahoo.com
Huh? My experience with the VIC-20 keyboard was bad, whereas I enjoyed
the feel and layout of the C64 keyboard better. I don't know why,
either. They look the same. Maybe it was the color?
As for the Amiga...my only experience on an Amiga (of any sort) is the
2000HD.
Paul
Alan
<dun...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139044532.6...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
>
It's hard to settle on the best keyboard, but I can pick the worst. I have
an early VIC that has the PET keyboard. It's terrible. The keys make this
horrible clacking sound, they feel incredibly cheap. Mine is in like new
condition, too. They keys are so "wobbly" and loose they get jammed against
each and stick. It's mainly due to the weird angle the keys actually hit
the board. Instead of coming straight down, these keys come down at
something like a 45 degree angle. It's how they made the VIC key layout fit
on the PET keyboards, I guess. The VIC Denial board has a thread about it
with some pictures of the hack-job Commodore did on the very first VICs. I
haven't swapped the keyboard out because it looks so darn cool. But it's
pretty miserable to type on.
David Murray
> automatically lose!
I have to admit, that was a bad design by Commodore. Interestingly enough,
I'm very good at operating them since I've been doing it for 20 years. But
you take somebody who has never used a Commodore and try to get them to use
the cursor keys, they won't like it. The 128 was a little better, because
each direction had its own key, but the layout still sucked. The Plus/4
was a little better with the 4-direction arrow keys, but it still wasn't
usefull enough for playing a game or anything. I think the inverted T
design is and always will be the best cursor arrangment. Note that the
arrangement on the Amiga1000 sucks too, but is better than using shift key.
Clockmeister
"David Murray" <spam...@stopspam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns976053AC3CC56n...@207.115.17.102...
> dun...@yahoo.com wrote in news:1139044532.606860.164860
> @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
>> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
>
> Actually, without a doubt the Plus/4 gets my vote for best keyboard to
> type
> on. I think I'd rank the Amiga 500 next, followed by the C64c and 128.
> Then the Amiga 1000, and last rankings would be the original 64 and
> Vic-20.
> Actually, that's not true. Last rankings would be for the old PET with
> the
> square keys and the 264 series with the membrane keyboards.
>
> The reason I don't like the Amiga 1000 keboard better than the 500 is
> placement of some of the keys, particularly the arrow keys.
Yes, that is true. My comment was strictly on feel, not layout.
Those very early A1000 keyboards had a nice quality feel to them. Later
ones, and the A500 keyboards felt cheap to me. I did have one very good
A2000 keyboard also but with Commodore it really was a lucky dip.
Maurice Randall
> Anything with those idiotic cursor keys that require the SHIFT button
> automatically lose!
Use a 64 enough and you get used to it.
On this C16 I'm testing JiffyDOS with, I keep finding myself
pressing a shifted equals when I want to cursor to the right. :)
I have to actually look at the keyboard to use the cursor keys. :(
-Maurice
--
** Maurice Randall - Click Here Software Co.
** High-Performance for your Commodore
** email: mau...@cmdrkey.com, sup...@cmdrkey.com
** web: http://cmdrkey.com
Payton Byrd
>
> Those very early A1000 keyboards had a nice quality feel to them. Later
> ones, and the A500 keyboards felt cheap to me. I did have one very good
> A2000 keyboard also but with Commodore it really was a lucky dip.
The A4000/040 came with a very nice feeling keyboard. I use a PC
keyboard on it solely to allow the A4000/040 to use my KVM it shares
with it's "assistant PC".
la...@portcommodore.com
in 64 mode), close next would be the B-128 (sooo many keys!).
The VIC-20 keyboards could very, some of the earlier units actually had
PET keyboad mechanisms in them. LAter units were more 64 like.
The Plus/4 was good, except for the dinky arrow keys.
The c16 was like the 64 but the cursor laylout was abysmal I prefer the
down/right - shift left/up two key approach better (an inverted T would
have been good but never happened.
Original PET probably the worst (next to the Max Machine and C116) with
the later PET/CBMs being not that great either (flat keysteps, no
gentle curve like on the 64.)
David Murray
> The A4000/040 came with a very nice feeling keyboard. I use a PC
> keyboard on it solely to allow the A4000/040 to use my KVM it shares
> with it's "assistant PC".
Speaking of that.. I guess my favorite keyboard is the PC style keyboard I
use on my DTV. Does that count? Speaking of KVM.. I've often wondered
about hooking the DTV into a KVM. Obviously, it has no mouse. And I'd
have to use a composite to VGA converter. But it might work.
Lance Lyon
news:1139044532.6...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
>
Nah - C64 keyboard is slanted at too steep an angle & the tactile response
is (IMHO) "hard". 128D's k/b has a better feel (7 is much more comfortable
to type with over long periods).
cheers,
Lance
--
// http://landover.no-ip.com
Classic machines, classic software //
Sam Gillett
<dun...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
I'll have to vote for the C128. If only the cursor key layout had been
better... it would have been the perfect keyboard for the mid 1980's. All
these years, and I still like my 128!
--
Best regards,
Sam Gillett
If you don't pay your exorcist,
will you become repossessed?
Robert Bernardo
FCUG celebrating 25 years,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Clockmeister
"Robert Bernardo" <rber...@iglou.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.61.0602050127330.3349@shell1...
> Best for me is the C128DCR keyboard. Second best is the SX-64 keyboard.
The SX-64 keyboard I have is awful, and I've just reconditioned it.
Feels cheap IMO.
tmb_ayebe
machines I've owned, the (VIC-20, C64, A500, A1200) the A1200 has the
best keyboard. The keys have a really nice smooth action and are just a
pleasure to type on.
I went to quite a lot of trouble to try to find a PC keyboard with the
same quality, and the best I could come up with was a clone of an
original IBM keyboard. It's not a million miles away, (and better than
the rubber dome jobs we usually have to put with) but it does have a
click as the key is pressed, which the amiga didn't have.
silverdr
>>Anything with those idiotic cursor keys that require the SHIFT button
>>automatically lose!
>
>
> Use a 64 enough and you get used to it.
Agreed. After the initial learning curve it becomes automatic.
silverdr
> silverdr wrote:
>
>>dun...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
>>>Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
>>
>>VIC had AFAIR the same keyboard as the 64. Amiga... there were tons of
>>different keayboards with different feel/quality.
>>
>>Trolling mood again? ;-)
>
>
> Huh? My experience with the VIC-20 keyboard was bad, whereas I enjoyed
> the feel and layout of the C64 keyboard better.
Unless it was the very early VIC with one of the PETlike kbds, those
were the same. They only switched the pigments for the case plastic when
moving from VIC to the 64.
> I don't know why,
> either. They look the same. Maybe it was the color?
Even the colour (of the kbd) was the same until they switched to those
cheap, beige keycaps on C64G/C.
>
> As for the Amiga...my only experience on an Amiga (of any sort) is the
> 2000HD.
there were tons of different keyboards with different feel/quality. Some
were excellent, some were just good and some were plain crappy. Even in
the A500 I recall seeing at least four different kbd types! No to
mention the A2000s where I lost my count. They were mostly consistent
with an acceptable quality kbds on the later models (600, 1200, 4000)
though.
zwsd...@gmail.com
Alan wrote:
> It's hard to settle on the best keyboard, but I can pick the worst. I have
> an early VIC that has the PET keyboard. It's terrible. The keys make this
> horrible clacking sound, they feel incredibly cheap. Mine is in like new
Ah, it's all part of the experience for those of us who grew up with
one of those oldest PET-VICs.
My mother didn't like me using the computer too much, so it was out in
the garage. My father secretly helped me move it into a closet in my
bedroom. I used to sit in there late at night typing away, listening to
the echoes reverberating through the return springs in the keyboard.
Unfortunately, this noise attracted my mother's attention and the
computer was banished to the garage again :/
Jukka Aho
I haven't used a real C64 in ages [1] but I don't think I can ever
really unlearn using the shift-based two-way cursor keys. That skill has
been permanently hardwired in my neuron pathways.
_____
[1] "Ages", in this context, would be at least a two or three years. The
C64 is currently stored away because of lack of space.
--
znark
Martijn van Buul
> My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
They all still pale to that IBM buckling spring.
--
Martijn van Buul - pi...@dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/
Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it!) but 'That's funny ...' Isaac Asimov
Etienne von Wettingfeld
But the best keyboard, not just Commodore, has to be the old IBM
keyboard.
--
Etienne von Wettingfeld
Mike Paull
>My vote goes to the Commodore 64. Everything else (e.g. VIC, C128,
>Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
>
>Paul
For me, it's the SX64 keyboard. Unlike the spongy feel of the C64 the SX
has a nice clicky tactile feel to it.
mike
Payton Byrd
> Please Sir, I can not tell a lie it's...The Commodore 128!
>
> But the best keyboard, not just Commodore, has to be the old IBM
> keyboard.
>
Best Feel: Coleco Adam - I could type for days on that thing, just
absolutely perfect height, pressure, response and sound.
Best Layout: Standard Windows 104-key (not 101-key) with the backslash
above the Enter key, not next to Backspace. (EN-US)
MagerValp
MvB> They all still pale to that IBM buckling spring.
Amen. A buckling spring keyboard with CBM keycaps, now that'd be
something...
--
___ . . . . . + . . o
_|___|_ + . + . + . Per Olofsson, arkadspelare
o-o . . . o + Mage...@cling.gu.se
- + + . http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/
Anders Carlsson
>> Huh? My experience with the VIC-20 keyboard was bad, whereas I
>> enjoyed the feel and layout of the C64 keyboard better.
>
> Unless it was the very early VIC with one of the PETlike kbds, those
> were the same. They only switched the pigments for the case plastic
> when moving from VIC to the 64.
I have a couple of VICs and 64s, and have found one type of mechanism
being springless, much more sturdy than the more common type. I have
swapped keyboards back and forth, but I'm pretty sure this springless
keyboard came from a VIC-20CR, i.e. the late production run parallel
to C64. That keyboard is pretty awful to use, although it looks OK.
Personally, I find the Amiga keyboards (both 500 and 1200) superior
to the 8-bitters, but most of all enjoy my KeyTronic PC keyboard. :)
--
Anders Carlsson
silverdr
> silverdr <silv...@inet.remove.it.pl> writes:
>
>
>>>Huh? My experience with the VIC-20 keyboard was bad, whereas I
>>>enjoyed the feel and layout of the C64 keyboard better.
>>
>>Unless it was the very early VIC with one of the PETlike kbds, those
>>were the same. They only switched the pigments for the case plastic
>>when moving from VIC to the 64.
>
>
> I have a couple of VICs and 64s, and have found one type of mechanism
> being springless, much more sturdy than the more common type. I have
> swapped keyboards back and forth, but I'm pretty sure this springless
> keyboard came from a VIC-20CR, i.e. the late production run parallel
> to C64.
Interesting... might be that I just never ran into one like that even if
quite a number of them passed through my workshop during the golden years.
Maurice Randall
> For me, it's the SX64 keyboard. Unlike the spongy feel of the C64 the SX
> has a nice clicky tactile feel to it.
What I don't like with the SX-64 keyboard is that I have to be
careful resting my fingers on the keys. The slightest pressure
activates a key. Maybe it's just my particular keyboard. Otherwise,
the SX-64 keyboard is fine.
Curtis P
>
> Best Layout: Standard Windows 104-key (not 101-key) with the backslash
> above the Enter key, not next to Backspace. (EN-US)
Here, here... Whenever I find a keyboard with a big Enter key (instead
of the backslash), I dump it.
Milan Pollé
news:4i9Ff.16282$s9....@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
> The A4000/040 came with a very nice feeling keyboard.
I agree, it has a nice tactile 'click-through', which I really like.
The keyboards of my VIC-20's, C-64's (MK II as well) and C-16 all feel the
same, nice and sturdy, but no click-through, some force is needed to operate
them.
The keys of my Amiga 500 are a bit wobbly, feel a bit like the 8-bit
Commodores, only less force needed.
The keyboard of my Atari 65XE is horrible, really mushy. The keys of the MSX
I have here have a nice short travel but are a bit wobbly. Haven't tried my
SVI-328 because I don't want to unpack it.
Tom Lake
>
> Amen. A buckling spring keyboard with CBM keycaps, now that'd be
> something...
I'd be one of the first in line to buy one of those!
Tom Lake
zeem
> <dun...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1139044532.6...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Amiga) feels quite ordinary.
>>
>
> an early VIC that has the PET keyboard. It's terrible.
That's the type that I posted about! The first time I've heard anyone
else mention it. Looks like it was a bad design then. I agree that it
looks cool though, I really liked mine but never used it much.
--
Alex Taylor