6502AD question
Adam
Is there any difference between a normal 6502 and a 6502AD? I need to
replace the processor in my 1541-II and was wondering what I can get
away with?
Thanks
--
Adam
Michael J. Schülke
> Is there any difference between a normal 6502 and a 6502AD?
The letters after the "6502" part are manufacturer-specific. Both
MOS/CSG and Rockwell used the first letter to designate the maximum
frequency:
no letter - 1 MHz
A - 2 MHz
B - 3 MHz
C - 4 MHz (CSG only, apparently)
Rockwell used a second letter for the package type (C - ceramic / P -
plastic) and sometimes a third (E - extended temperature range). Could
your "D" possibly be a "P"?
> I need to
> replace the processor in my 1541-II and was wondering what I can get
> away with?
IIRC, the 1541-II is a 1 MHz device, so yes, you can.
Michael
Riccardo Rubini
Hello Adam.
Of course you can get away with it. The 6502AD is nothing but a 6502
processor able to run up to 2 Mhz. I have seen a bunch of 1541-II boards
mounting the 6502AD straight away from factory.
Riccardo
Riccardo Rubini
> Rockwell used a second letter for the package type (C - ceramic / P -
> plastic) and sometimes a third (E - extended temperature range). Could
> your "D" possibly be a "P"?
Nope, MOS 6502AD is correct. The guy is absolutely right. I have a load of
6502AD's, personally.
Also, MOS did specify the packaging in a MxS prefix, where x is C if the
packaging is ceramic or P if it's plastic. Example: MPS6502C = Plastic cased
6502 running up to 4 Mhz.
I don't remember where I read it, but if I recall right the D in "AD" stands
for DIP, as opposed to P for PLCC. I am not sure, however. I can't find this
information on the 6500 family datasheet from 1985.
If you want to see a picture, look at this bulletin board's topic: some guy
asked the same question Adam did, and in your language as well; a guy who
uses the 6502AD stamp as an avatar replied... : http://tinyurl.com/ru4yg .
To be anal, that chip he took a picture of was built on the 45th week of
1985.
Riccardo
Michael J. Schülke
> I don't remember where I read it, but if I recall right the D in "AD" stands
> for DIP, as opposed to P for PLCC. I am not sure, however. I can't find this
> information on the 6500 family datasheet from 1985.
That's what I checked, too, along with a Rockwell datasheet of similar
vintage -- no "D" anywhere; I was too lazy to actually run down to the
basement and check my spare 6502s.
Was there ever a PLCC version of the (NMOS) 6502? My datasheets only
have 65C02s in PLCC cases.
> If you want to see a picture, look at this bulletin board's topic
Thanks, but no need to -- I believe you anyway :-)
Michael
Stealth
> no letter - 1 MHz
> A - 2 MHz
> B - 3 MHz
> C - 4 MHz (CSG only, apparently)
>
> Rockwell used a second letter for the package type (C - ceramic / P -
> plastic) and sometimes a third (E - extended temperature range). Could
> your "D" possibly be a "P"?
Maybe D just meant "drive"? As lame as it sounds, maybe that's the solution
to this puzzle.
Adam
Riccardo Rubini wrote:
> > replace the processor in my 1541-II and was wondering what I can get
> > away with?
>
> Hello Adam.
>
> Of course you can get away with it. The 6502AD is nothing but a 6502
> processor able to run up to 2 Mhz. I have seen a bunch of 1541-II boards
> mounting the 6502AD straight away from factory.
I think you misunderstand slightly
It has a (dead) 6502AD /now/, I want to replace that chip with a bog
standard 6502 (from a BBC computer actually)
Are people sure the 1541-II doesn't /need/ 2MHz speed for some reason?
These things are soldered in so I want to be sure first, lol
Thanks
--
Hideki
Riccardo Rubini
"Michael J. Schülke" <news...@mjschuelke.de> wrote in message
news:MPG.1eeac6b6e...@news.individual.de...
> Riccardo Rubini wrote:
>
>> I don't remember where I read it, but if I recall right the D in "AD"
>> stands
>> for DIP, as opposed to P for PLCC. I am not sure, however. I can't find
>> this
>> information on the 6500 family datasheet from 1985.
>
> That's what I checked, too, along with a Rockwell datasheet of similar
> vintage -- no "D" anywhere; I was too lazy to actually run down to the
> basement and check my spare 6502s.
I can tell you there are, without any doubt. Now, I don't remember where I
read that "D" thing, but I read it, and it was some documentation, not
necessarily the official 6500 family datasheet, but probably the service
manual of a peripheral using it.
> Was there ever a PLCC version of the (NMOS) 6502? My datasheets only
> have 65C02s in PLCC cases.
That can't be either, because MOS never produced 65C02's. That was CMOS CPU
made by Rockwell, with some addition to the instruction set. The closest
match on the Commodore front has to be the 65CE02. I bought a couple of
exotic Amiga cards, to get this IC, it's basically the CPU used in the C65,
runs at 3 Mhz and sports new instructions and a new register ( Z ). You
don't find the 65CE02 looking at pictures on the net, because the C65 uses
an MPU that is the 65CE02 + 2 6526 integrated in the same PLCC casing,
called 4510 ( CMOS ).
>> If you want to see a picture, look at this bulletin board's topic
>
> Thanks, but no need to -- I believe you anyway :-)
Ok. I said it just in case you were curious. I remember I saw it soldered on
many 1541-II and 1581 boards. Those disk drives run the CPU at 1 Mhz, both
IIRC, and it makes me wonder either Commodore quit making the 1 Mhz version
at some point or had much unused 2 Mhz stock to clear.
Riccardo
Riccardo Rubini
"Stealth" <protostealth@*spamblocker*hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e5qjg4$mqu$1...@ss408.t-com.hr...
> Maybe D just meant "drive"? As lame as it sounds, maybe that's the
> solution
> to this puzzle.
No, I don't think so. In that case, some special addition or peculiarity had
to exist, to justify a separate production run for disk drives. For example,
there is a 6510T, not 6510, that is implemented only inside the 1551 disk
drive, and that CPU is different compared to a normal 6510. I really believe
"D" stands for "DIP" ( or DIL ), which means Dual In-Line Package - the
common rectangular housing of MOS IC's.
I believe there were 6502 made in PLCC, because CSG/MOS sold integrated
circuits to third parties also, so it's not impossible that, even if they
did not implement in their own hardware, they sold 6502 PLCC to other
companies requesting it. When Commodore was alive, it was Commodore who
owned the patents/copyright to the 6502 CPU, so those processors were either
licensed by them or built at their own facility.
Michael has asked me if 6502 in PLCC did exist and I am puzzled about
whether I have one somewhere, I had seen one or I have never seen one... :-)
What I am certain of is that MOS did make, at some point, the transition to
PLCC packaging, expecially after the Amiga line took over. I have to check
how they named the 8520 in DIP and the 8520 in PLCC, that can hint
something...
Riccardo
Riccardo Rubini
"Adam" <hidek...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149319148.7...@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I think you misunderstand slightly
>
> It has a (dead) 6502AD /now/, I want to replace that chip with a bog
> standard 6502 (from a BBC computer actually)
That should work.
> Are people sure the 1541-II doesn't /need/ 2MHz speed for some reason?
No, I am not aware of the 1541-II making any use of the 2 Mhz feature ever.
The 1541-II is mostly a cost reduced revision ( or upgrade ) of the 1541C,
and that never used the 2 Mhz speed either. I think you're pretty safe using
whatever 1 Mhz 6502 compatible CPU you can put your hands on.
> These things are soldered in so I want to be sure first, lol
Remember to put a socket, after you're done. It might come handy in the
future.
Riccardo
Michael J. Schülke
> > Was there ever a PLCC version of the (NMOS) 6502? My datasheets only
> > have 65C02s in PLCC cases.
>
> That can't be either, because MOS never produced 65C02's.
And I didn't say MOS :-)
> That was CMOS CPU
> made by Rockwell, with some addition to the instruction set.
... and later second-sourced by California Micro Devices, WDC, and
possibly others.
Michael
Riccardo Rubini
> Riccardo Rubini wrote:
>
>> > Was there ever a PLCC version of the (NMOS) 6502? My datasheets only
>> > have 65C02s in PLCC cases.
>>
>> That can't be either, because MOS never produced 65C02's.
>
> And I didn't say MOS :-)
Uhm...Actually I can't locate any - I am looking through various chip
brokers homepages. Only 65C02s in PLCC cases...
>> That was CMOS CPU
>> made by Rockwell, with some addition to the instruction set.
>
> ... and later second-sourced by California Micro Devices, WDC, and
> possibly others.
I think that these companies paid royalty fees to Rockwell, because as much
as I remember, the 65C02 was Rockwell's baby. It was an "upgrade" to the MOS
CPU, providing bug fixes and new opcodes. Oddly, Commodore ended up buying
these chips for use in their computers; I have found many 6522 clones on the
drive boards of the late eighties ( 1570, 1571, C128D, etc. ).
Btw, look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6502 . What CPU is in the picture
? :-)
Riccardo
Ca...@sympatico.ca
it is motorola that makes the 6502 CPU that was used in the apple II.
Regards
Mike
Payton Byrd
The book is obviously wrong. But it was a common mistake back in the
80's. I remember many references to the Commodore 8-bit lines using
Motorolla CPU's in magazines and such. It just goes to show you how bad
Commodore was at PR.
--
Payton Byrd
<telnet://paytonbyrd.dyndns.org:6400>
<http://www.paytonbyrd.com>
<http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/visualbasic/dotnet>
Ca...@sympatico.ca
wrote:
>The book is obviously wrong.
thats why i put the " " around " according"
Regards
Mike
Anders Carlsson
> there is a 6510T, not 6510, that is implemented only inside the
> 1551 disk drive, and that CPU is different compared to a normal 6510.
Aaww.. I was going to suggest the 6510T was made for tower-mounted
C64, as opposed to the desktop models Commodore themselves sold. :-)
--
Anders Carlsson
Riccardo Rubini
"Anders Carlsson" <anders....@sfks.se> wrote in message
news:wkhd31l...@sfks.se...
Uh ? Lol ... No, that T just stands for the infamous TED, obviously :-)
Riccardo
A. Fachat
> Ok. I said it just in case you were curious. I remember I saw it soldered on
> many 1541-II and 1581 boards. Those disk drives run the CPU at 1 Mhz, both
> IIRC, and it makes me wonder either Commodore quit making the 1 Mhz version
The 1581 runs the 6502 at 2MHz.
André