Newbie question: C128 Video Connections
Douglas D. Williams
C64 years ago and has forgotten almost everything I ever knew
about them.
My wife found a C128, a 1541, and an Okidata printer at a yard
sale for $10. She called me on her cellphone and I told her to
bring it home. When she arrived home, I sorted it all out and
found that the power cable for the 1541 was missing (no problem,
can buy that at Radio Shack), and the video cable for the C128
was missing.
My problem: How do I test the dang thing to see if it's working?
The power LEDs all light up on both the C128 and the 1541 and the
1541 makes a couple of noises when I turn it on.
First of all, is there any way to use a standard SVGA PC monitor
with the C128?
If not, I have a 19" color TV that is used for console games that
I could use. Now, I want the best picture possible, but before I
go spending any money can I just connect the RF out connector on
the C128 to the "antenna in" connector on the back of the TV?
It's a newer TV with a 75 ohm connector on the back. I have some
spare patch cables with phono plugs on each end, and Radio Shack
sells a "phono plug to Type F" adapter for $1.99. Interference to
television reception is no problem, as I only use this TV as a
monitor for console games.
Now, if I find out the 128 is in good shape, I would want to
connect it to the TV via it's "video out" jack. The TV has a
separate "composite video" connector and R&L audio connectors
(all phono jacks). The 128 seems to have some sort of round 8-pin
jack for video and, IIRC, audio. Is there any place I could still
purchase a cable that could be used to connect the 128 to the TV
via this "video out' jack.
Any help would be appreciated.
-Doug
Ron Rogers
>Well, I'm not really a newbie...just an "oldie"
>who used to own a C64 years ago and has
>forgotten almost everything I ever knew about
>them.
I'm in a similar situation, used one at school, never owned one till a
couple of ears ago.
>My wife found a C128, a 1541, and an Okidata
>printer at a yard sale for $10. She called me
>on her cellphone and I told her to bring it
>home. When she arrived home, I sorted it all
>out and found that the power cable for the
>1541 was missing (no problem, can buy that at
>Radio Shack), and the video cable for the
>C128 was missing.
I got mine at a yard sale too. A C128, 1571, 1902A monitor and Gemini
10X printer for free.
>My problem: How do I test the dang thing to
>see if it's working? The power LEDs all light up
>on both the C128 and the 1541 and the 1541
>makes a couple of noises when I turn it on.
>First of all, is there any way to use a standard
>SVGA PC monitor with the C128?
Nope, it has to be CGA. That's what the 128 outputs on it's DB9
connector. As far as I know any CGA monitor would work. But you're
better off getting a Commodore dual mode monitor that supports both the
80 and 40 column modes.
>If not, I have a 19" color TV that is used for
>console games that I could use. Now, I want
>the best picture possible, but before I go
>spending any money can I just connect the RF
>out connector on the C128 to the "antenna in"
>connector on the back of the TV? It's a newer
>TV with a 75 ohm connector on the back. I
>have some spare patch cables with phono
>plugs on each end, and Radio Shack sells a
>"phono plug to Type F" adapter for $1.99.
>Interference to television reception is no
>problem, as I only use this TV as a monitor for
>console games.
What you'll need is a TV/Game switch box from radio shack. You'll want
the one with the 75 ohm output, that's the $4.99 one I think. The L/H
switch on the 128 selects the output channel 3/4. And make certain the
40/80 key on the keyboard is in the "up" position.
>Now, if I find out the 128 is in good shape, I
>would want to connect it to the TV via it's
>"video out" jack. The TV has a separate
>"composite video" connector and R&L audio
>connectors (all phono jacks). The 128 seems
>to have some sort of round 8-pin jack for
>video> and, IIRC, audio. Is there any place I
>could still purchase a cable that could be used >to connect the 128 to
the TV via this "video
>out' jack.
>Any help would be appreciated.
That 8 pin DIN output is Luma Chroma aka S-video. You'd need a special
cable to hook it to your TV. Like I said, you're better off getting a
Commodore 1902 or 1084 monitor which supports both 40 and 80 column
modes. Plus you can also use them with your video game machines since
they have standard composite inputs.
CronoCloud (Ron Rogers)
Knight of the Square Table
http://members.tripod.com/~CronoCloud/index.html
Member of the Knights Knoble
http://knightsknoble.cjb.net
Raymond Carlsen
> The power LEDs all light up on both the C128 and the 1541 and the
> 1541 makes a couple of noises when I turn it on.
> First of all, is there any way to use a standard SVGA PC monitor
> with the C128?
Nope, not unless the monitor will do digital RGBI, the old IBM CGA
standard... -very- unlikely. You could hook it up to a TV set's antenna
input to check it. The little RCA connector on the back of the 128 is for
RF output channel 3 or 4 (the slide switch next to it selects the channel).
For a temporary hookup, you'll need an adaptor cable to go from RCA male to
F male to get 40 column video (C64 and C128 mode) from the computer. The 9
pin D connector on the 128 is for the 80 column output. The round 8 pin DIN
connector is for audio and video (both composite and split) outputs. You'll
need to buy or build your own cable to go directly from the computer to the
video and audio inputs of the TV.
Here is the A/V connector of the C64 and C128 shown facing the rear of the
computer. Note that early versions of the C64 have a 5 pin DIN connector
while later versions have an 8 pin. The two are wired exactly the same,
except that the 8 pin connector has a separated chroma (color) output on
pin 6. Earlier C64's didn't have separated chroma. That means the later
computers can output S video... separate luminance and chromance to go to
the S inputs of a TV set with the proper cable. Note the "U" shape of the
connector pins. It's different than the circular pattern of the RGB DIN
connector on the 1902A monitor, for example.
see note below -----8 7-----no connection
6---------chroma out
audio out -----3 1----- luminance (B & W signal)
audio in -----5 4----- composite video out
2----- ground
Important note: the later C64C and the C128 both have a power supply
line going to one of the "unused" pins: pin 8. Be careful!!!
Ray
eti...@xs4none.nl
> My wife found a C128, a 1541, and an Okidata printer at a yard
> sale for $10. She called me on her cellphone and I told her to
> bring it home.
Mine would call the yard sale on my cellphone and asked them if they'd want
some free computer stuff.
A few days ago I was chatting with a friend of hers and I told her I was
busy on my 'Attic of Nostalgy'. She asked me if I meant "that old bunch of
computer crap" and I said "Yes, the Attic of Nostalgy".
Still, she doesn't know I hooked up my Commodore 64 to my ancient stereo
system. I do have to press the 'mono' button though, or only one speaker
will work. The speakers are a different story though. My girlfriend bought a
really cheap drill so it took a very long time before I got a little hole in
the wall to put the screw in. That was one speaker off it's feet. But then I
couldn't find a second screw for the second speaker. After two hours I did
find one and got the second speaker up after a very long time drilling.
--
Etienne von Wettingfeld [The Netherlands]
+ Fax && Voice mail +31 (20) 8835157
+ I.C.Q. 2559832 (Authorize)
+ IRC Net <Chaos_One> #@AmigaNL
Douglas D. Williams
questions. I connected the 128 to the TV with a patch cable and a
phono plug to Type F adapter and everything seems to work fine. Even
the 1541 works. Now, I want to get a better picture than the one I
get through the RF connector. I found a place online that sells
Commodore hardware called vintagecomputer.com. They have the
following monitor cables listed:
3. 40 Col. Color Monitor Cable,
Luma, Chroma.......7.95
4. 40 Col. Color Monitor Cable, Din
8-Din 6......10.95
5. 40 Col. Color Monitor Cable
single video input.....10.95
6. RGB 80 Col. Color Monitor Cable
(C128) DB9-DB8...8.95
7. RGB 80 Col. Color Monitor Cable
(C128) DB9-DB8.....12.95
8. RGB 80 Col. Monochrome
Cable.....7.95
Are any of these cables what I need to connect the video/audio out on
the 128 to the composite video and audio connections on the back of
the TV? If not, I guess I'll have to "roll my own".
Another question: My local Office Depot still sells 5 1/4 high
density disks. Can these be used with the 1541?
Also, just how compatible with C64 specific software is the C128?
Will it run anything (in C64 mode, of course) that would run on a
C64?
-Doug
Richard Kilpatrick
<igu...@usit.net> grabbed chalk and scrawled:
> 5. 40 Col. Color Monitor Cable
>single video input.....10.95
>Are any of these cables what I need to connect the video/audio out on
>the 128 to the composite video and audio connections on the back of
>the TV? If not, I guess I'll have to "roll my own".
That one is the one you need... You still won't get 80-column output
from it, obviously.
>Another question: My local Office Depot still sells 5 1/4 high
>density disks. Can these be used with the 1541?
I think they should work, other people have said no - and I don't have
any to test :/
>Also, just how compatible with C64 specific software is the C128?
>Will it run anything (in C64 mode, of course) that would run on a
>C64?
Not just software, but hardware too :)
Richard
--
Richard Kilpatrick |\ _,,,---,,_
Atari XL/XE, Pioneer CLD-D925, retrotech /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,
E-Mail: Richard<at>lovecraft.demon.co.uk |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'::.
http://www.lovecraft.demon.co.uk/retrotech '----''(_/--' `-'\_)Morticia
Raymond Carlsen
> questions. I connected the 128 to the TV with a patch cable and a phono
> plug to Type F adapter and everything seems to work fine. Even the 1541
> works. Now, I want to get a better picture than the one I get through
> the RF connector. I found a place online that sells Commodore hardware
> called vintagecomputer.com. They have the following monitor cables
> listed:
> 3. 40 Col. Color Monitor Cable,
> Luma, Chroma.......7.95
> 4. 40 Col. Color Monitor Cable, Din
> 8-Din 6......10.95
> single video input.....10.95
> (C128) DB9-DB8...8.95
> 7. RGB 80 Col. Color Monitor Cable
> (C128) DB9-DB8.....12.95
> 8. RGB 80 Col. Monochrome
> Cable.....7.95
>
> the 128 to the composite video and audio connections on the back of
> the TV? If not, I guess I'll have to "roll my own".
You need a two wire cable as follows: 5 or 8 pin DIN on one end and two RCA
male connectors on the other... one for video and one for audio. So, I
would ask for clarification of -exactly- what they mean by the above info.
Without knowing what you're ordering, it's a gamble. I suppose "single
video input" comes closest. "Luma-chroma" is probably the three wire S
video cable. If your TV has S video inputs, you still need an adaptor to go
from two RCA male connectors (Luminance and chromance) to a mini-DIN for
the S input of the TV. The third wire is for audio. I don't know what the
<beep> a "cable" is. ;-)
> Another question: My local Office Depot still sells 5 1/4 high
> density disks. Can these be used with the 1541?
No. You may get them to format, but at best the data is not reliable. A
high density disk takes a higher write current than the 1541 can supply.
> Also, just how compatible with C64 specific software is the C128? Will
> it run anything (in C64 mode, of course) that would run on a C64?
It should run the majority of 64 software. Problems loading some programs
are usually linked to the 128 companion drive: the 1571. If you're running
a 1541 on your 128 in 64 mode, you'll find very few programs that just
don't work properly. Others here can probably tell you which ones are
suspect, but I've never had a problem with anything I've used.
Ray
Daniel Morrow
"Douglas D. Williams" wrote:
> Well, I'm not really a newbie...just an "oldie" who used to own a
> C64 years ago and has forgotten almost everything I ever knew
> about them.
>
> My wife found a C128, a 1541, and an Okidata printer at a yard
> sale for $10. She called me on her cellphone and I told her to
> bring it home. When she arrived home, I sorted it all out and
> found that the power cable for the 1541 was missing (no problem,
> can buy that at Radio Shack), and the video cable for the C128
> was missing.
>
> My problem: How do I test the dang thing to see if it's working?
> The power LEDs all light up on both the C128 and the 1541 and the
> 1541 makes a couple of noises when I turn it on.
>
> First of all, is there any way to use a standard SVGA PC monitor
> with the C128?
>
The only two ways that I know of are to use a pc with capture card or
an $80.00 or so adapter.
>
> If not, I have a 19" color TV that is used for console games that
> I could use. Now, I want the best picture possible, but before I
> go spending any money can I just connect the RF out connector on
> the C128 to the "antenna in" connector on the back of the TV?
>
Given what I have seen in some of my equipment - yes you can. The
only significant electrical difference between what you propose and
what normally would be done is an rf choke in an rf video switch box
which I am pretty sure just filters out extraneous interference.
> It's a newer TV with a 75 ohm connector on the back. I have some
> spare patch cables with phono plugs on each end, and Radio Shack
> sells a "phono plug to Type F" adapter for $1.99. Interference to
> television reception is no problem, as I only use this TV as a
> monitor for console games.
>
> Now, if I find out the 128 is in good shape, I would want to
> connect it to the TV via it's "video out" jack. The TV has a
> separate "composite video" connector and R&L audio connectors
> (all phono jacks). The 128 seems to have some sort of round 8-pin
> jack for video and, IIRC, audio. Is there any place I could still
> purchase a cable that could be used to connect the 128 to the TV
>
Try http://www.cmdweb.com/ for a new one or
http://www.vintagecomputer.com/ for a used one. Good luck and later!
chupy
and most 128 software will not load on the 1541
you would need a 1571 drive to use the 128 to its fullest potential
the tv will not support 80 colum mode so you will hafto use the 128 in 40
colum mode intul you get a monitor
I have for sale the drive,monitor and cabels you need
KEN
"Richard Kilpatrick" <ric...@lovecraft.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:X$ZzptAAN...@lovecraft.demon.co.uk...
> Once upon a time <39901EE6...@usit.net>, Douglas D. Williams
> <igu...@usit.net> grabbed chalk and scrawled:
>
> >single video input.....10.95
>
> >the 128 to the composite video and audio connections on the back of
> >the TV? If not, I guess I'll have to "roll my own".
>
> from it, obviously.
>
> >density disks. Can these be used with the 1541?
>
> any to test :/
>
> >Will it run anything (in C64 mode, of course) that would run on a
> >C64?
>
>
> Richard
> --
> Richard Kilpatrick |\ _,,,---,,_
> Atari XL/XE, Pioneer CLD-D925, retrotech /,`.-'`' -.
;-;;,
> E-Mail: Richard<at>lovecraft.demon.co.uk |,4- ) )-,_. ,\
Erlend Pettersen
<igu...@usit.net> wrote:
>My problem: How do I test the dang thing to see if it's working?
>The power LEDs all light up on both the C128 and the 1541 and the
>1541 makes a couple of noises when I turn it on.
That's a good sign. :)
>First of all, is there any way to use a standard SVGA PC monitor
>with the C128?
No.
>If not, I have a 19" color TV that is used for console games that
>I could use. Now, I want the best picture possible, but before I
>go spending any money can I just connect the RF out connector on
>the C128 to the "antenna in" connector on the back of the TV?
Yes, you can do that.
The C128 has two video-chips. The first one outputs a standard
"TV-style" picture that can be used on a TV or NTSC/PAL-monitor. Most
C128 software, and all C64-software uses this chip (known as the VIC).
The second chip (known as the VDC) outputs a high-resolution picture. A
lot of serious software (like word-processors, terminal-programs and
similar) uses this chip for display, because it can show 80 characters
on one line. However, you will need a CGA or Commodore 1902-monitor to
be able to use that.
My TV has phono-plugs on the back. What I did, was to buy a cable with a
5-pin DIN on one end (which plugs into the computer), and 4 phono-plugs
on the other end. This works fine on my VIC20, C64's and C128D.
-Erlend Pettersen- puz...@fix.no
Erlend Pettersen
<igu...@usit.net> wrote:
>Another question: My local Office Depot still sells 5 1/4 high
>density disks. Can these be used with the 1541?
No, not really. Actually, it does work sometimes, but it is very
unreliable.
>Also, just how compatible with C64 specific software is the C128?
>Will it run anything (in C64 mode, of course) that would run on a
>C64?
Yep. :)
-Erlend Pettersen- puz...@fix.no
Martijn van Buul
> >Also, just how compatible with C64 specific software is the C128?
> >Will it run anything (in C64 mode, of course) that would run on a
> >C64?
>
> Yep. :)
Apart from the CP/M cartridge, ofcourse.
And the unmodified smon, and actually all thingies which crash on a
newer (HMOS) C64
--
Martijn van Buul - Pi...@dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/
Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333
Nicolas Welte
> And the unmodified smon, and actually all thingies which crash on a
> newer (HMOS) C64
Though SMON runs just fine on pre-1987 C128s. It is the 128DCR which has
the incompatibilities of both the C128 in general plus the later CIA chips
as used in all 1987 and later machines.
Nicolas