Starcraft for C64
David Murray
I've been working on, I've been thinking about something on a larger
scale for the C64 as my next project. I've spent a great amount of
time thinking about it and I see no reason why the C64 couldn't
support a much more complex real-time-strategy similar to StarCraft,
Warcraft, etc..
However, there are some thorny issues I'd need to tackle. One of
those issues is user-interface. Most such games are played with a
mouse. But few people have a mouse on a C64 and not even all of the
emulators will even support that. So I've been contemplating exactly
how I might go about having the user control dozens of units at a time
without a mouse.
Now, obviously, graphics would be much simpler and I'd probably use
character based graphics so the motion of the units as they move would
be a little jerkier since there aren't enough sprites to use for all
the possible units one might have on the screen. But otherwise, I
think the gameplay itself could be just as complex and potentially
support 200 units or so.
msam...@bbtel.com
Sounds good. It's nice to see new games for the C64.
commodorejohn
> emulators will even support that. So I've been contemplating exactly
> how I might go about having the user control dozens of units at a time
> without a mouse.
trying to devise a good alternate control scheme. Support the 1351 and
compatibles if the user has one, and if they don't, allow them to move
the pointer with a joystick, like GEOS does.
Also, if I were you I'd stick to turn-based strategy instead of real-
time; it'll simplify things considerably, especially when you have a
very large number of units in play.
> Now, obviously, graphics would be much simpler and I'd probably use
> character based graphics so the motion of the units as they move would
> be a little jerkier since there aren't enough sprites to use for all
> the possible units one might have on the screen.
Here's a thought: I've seen some NES and Master System strategy games
display units on the background layer when they're inactive, and as
sprites when they're moving or attacking. This allows all the
flexibility of sprites without any of the hassle or limitations of
multiplexing; however, it'll only be feasible if you're doing a TBS
game, naturally.
christianlott1
> However, there are some thorny issues I'd need to tackle. One of
> those issues is user-interface. Most such games are played with a
> mouse. But few people have a mouse on a C64 and not even all of the
> emulators will even support that. So I've been contemplating exactly
> how I might go about having the user control dozens of units at a time
> without a mouse.
These games are very popular but I don't like them. A C64 game should
only require a keyboard or joystick.
Don't try to reinvent something - make something completely new. And
once you find what you really want to make you wont need our input -
you will know exactly what you want. This is my advice.
David Murray
> once you find what you really want to make you wont need our input -
> you will know exactly what you want. This is my advice.
Actually, I already did that.. I created Planet X1, which I thought
was going to be a big hit because it was a really new concept.. and
after posting about it here and 15 other boards I never received more
than about 2 or 3 replies and I think only one person actually tried
to play it. So, although it was rewarding just for the challenge of
designing it, I'd rather make something that will benefit the whole C=
community with something other people might enjoy playing.
saehn
> was going to be a big hit because it was a really new concept.. and
> after posting about it here and 15 other boards I never received more
> than about 2 or 3 replies and I think only one person actually tried
> to play it.
Well, come on Dave... it wasn't working yet. You could move the tanks
around and that was cool, but no enemies = no fun. You know I was
interested in it, and I'm sure other people would be once it is closer
to being playable. :-)
Rudolf Harras
Yes, I think as long as something is not finished you can't say if its
good or not. If it has the best graphics it still can't be playable.
Where can I find this game? I searched for it but didn't find it.
I still like to play on the C64 but I wonder how many people still use
it for gaming. Most of the competitions etc. are for demos, I'd really
like to have some gaming parties. Altough I think some people still
might play some challenges from time to time but when I was playing
Snoopy yesterday I just asked myself if I am the only one in the world
playing this right now...
A game really missing on the C64 in my Opinion is a good 4-player
Bomberman Clone. There was one for DOS called "Boom", the funniest
Bomberman ever for 3-4 players (well 2 also works).
David Murray
> around and that was cool, but no enemies = no fun. You know I was
> interested in it, and I'm sure other people would be once it is closer
> to being playable. :-)
Oh.. well, I've gotten further than that now.. There are enemies..
They may not be very smart, but they are there. I'm still working on
Planet X1, but I doubt I'll ever polish it to the point I originally
intended to... Also it may be possible that the audience on the
Vic-20 is smaller than on the C64..
Garberstreet Electronics
"David Murray" <adr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6bf4bf6f-8ee0-442b...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Pardon my lack of Commodore knowledge, but isn't the C64
backwards compatible with the Vic-20? I would hope that
it was. I mean, can't it run Vic-20 programs?
Bill Garber of Garberstreet Electronics
http://www.garberstreet.com
David Murray
> backwards compatible with the Vic-20? I would hope that
> it was. I mean, can't it run Vic-20 programs?
The short answer is "NO." The long answer is that it could run a very
small portion of programs written on the VIC-20 as long as those
programs were written entirely in BASIC and did not use any features
other than writing text to the screen. So that probably means less
than 1% of VIC-20 programs would work on the C64.
Garberstreet Electronics
Thanks, David.
I guess it's about time to get out my Commodore computers
and start studying them.
christianlott1
> I'm still working on
> Planet X1, but I doubt I'll ever polish it to the point I originally
> intended to... Also it may be possible that the audience on the
> Vic-20 is smaller than on the C64..
If you thought it was such a great concept you'd finish it despite
anyone elses opinion. Sometimes what seemed like a great idea wasnt,
but you decide this - not anyone else. Ideas evolve and change and we
learn new things. Then again, it's good to ask others opinions and
sometimes you get good feedback..
But don't say 'nobody seems to care' because many of us do. I do think
you should port it to the C64 and work on it from there. The only
thing I like about the vic20 is the wicked blocky sounds. But if you
spend another year working on it, post a screenshot and I dont have
time or am not inspired to play it dont get mad. Its your time and
talent, invest it where you want.
There are too many people who think the more they produce the better.
Its vaporware. They want to make a dollar or want attention but they
dont really believe what they are making is important.
And this is a rant about some people and may not apply to you. I just
wanted to say this because there are some.
commodorec...@googlemail.com
It's who you tell about your games/projects. Don't assume that no one
cares.
If you contact me with some details, screen grabs etc... I may be able
to get your projects mentioned in a PC magazine here in the UK,
available through all good news agents etc... The only thing is that
it has to be an 8-bit game that you are working on, including of
course the Commodore VIC-20.
Regards,
Shaun.
Rudolf Harras
>A game really missing on the C64 in my Opinion is a good 4-player
>Bomberman Clone. There was one for DOS called "Boom", the funniest
>Bomberman ever for 3-4 players (well 2 also works).
Now i got it:
You find the game and a screenshot at:
http://www.tin.at/spiele/
(the last game in the list)
Its one oft the best playable bomberman clones! Whished there was one
like that on the C64!
commodorejohn
but just to restate: don't make games because you want attention, and
don't make them for Commodore computers if you want money. If you've
got an idea for a game that you think is good, go ahead and make it
for the love of the project, no matter how few people sound
interested. Besides, interested parties tend to only come out of the
woodwork as you approach completion on a project, not when you're
still in the planning stages.
That said, I do think you'd do better to make your original game on
the C64; it has a wider audience and _much_ more flexible hardware,
and doesn't require expansion to be capable of running almost anything
worthwhile like the VIC-20.
David Murray
> don't make them for Commodore computers if you want money. If you've
Well, I certainly wasn't planning to make any money. After all, it is
an open-source, freeware program. However, I was hoping for more
interest and "attention" as you call it because I want my work to be
enjoyed by others, and better yet, to be improved by others.
> woodwork as you approach completion on a project, not when you're
> still in the planning stages.
I'm definitely way past the planning stages as the game is already
playable. I'm about 90% done. I've posted screenshots here and
downloads before. But, for those who missed them, here are a few:
http://galaxy22.dyndns.org/vic20/game-screen5.png
http://galaxy22.dyndns.org/vic20/game-screen4.png
> That said, I do think you'd do better to make your original game on
> the C64; it has a wider audience and _much_ more flexible hardware,
Well.. When I started the game I figured I'd eventually port it to the
C64. But I knew the VIC-20 would be capable of the game, and since
the platform doesn't have very many complex games available for it, I
figured it would stand out more on that platform. Now, as I've
mentioned before, this game could "easily" be converted to the C64..
Probably less than 10% of the code would need to be changed. The Plus/
4 would also be an easy conversion since there are no sprites used.
Also the C64 version could benefit from the extra screen resolution.
However.. back to the original topic of this thread.. I am seriously
thinking about a Starcraft-like game for the C64 when I'm done with
this project in a week or two. But, what I was mainly looking for
were suggestions on user-interface. I'm still for a design that would
make the game playable without a mouse. But I'm coming up blank as
for good ideas on how to control the units.
saehn
> thinking about a Starcraft-like game for the C64 when I'm done with
> this project in a week or two. But, what I was mainly looking for
> were suggestions on user-interface. I'm still for a design that would
> make the game playable without a mouse. But I'm coming up blank as
> for good ideas on how to control the units.
Please finish up Planet X1 anyway ;-)
Regarding your SC clone, why not just go with a mouse/joystick option?
People with emulation can use it, and I'll bet that most of those of
us who are CommoDorky enough to have an X-series cable have a 1351
too. If you allow the (better) mouse option along with a joystick
option, then that covers everyone.
Leif Bloomquist
news:8f25d900-0b35-4681...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> but just to restate: don't make games because you want attention, and
> don't make them for Commodore computers if you want money. If you've
> got an idea for a game that you think is good, go ahead and make it
> for the love of the project, no matter how few people sound
> interested.
I second (third) this sentiment. Do it because it's fun, to learn, and/or
have the satisfaction of implementing it.
I've got an interesting perspective on this, as I think I've created the
only C64 game that "phones home" over the Internet (NetRacer). I had my 15
seconds of fame when it was released, and it was a hit with a few people
(especially kids) at a couple of Commodore Expos. It was downloaded nearly
1,000 times from CSDB.
Yet looking at the server logs, I can see that less than 5 people -
worldwide - have tried the game in the past year (unless there's a
clandestine server instance out there), and nobody's tried it in the past 6
months. So that's a bit of a bummer.
But then I think of what I learned in the process - 6502 assembler,
networking, game design, etc., and the fun we had during testing, and it's
all worth it. Now, the best result is that someone would take the source
and/or ideas and use them in a "real" game. I expect to be pleasantly
surprised some day ;-)
-Leif
--
Leif Bloomquist
leif(at)schemafactor(dot)com
http://home.ica.net/~leifb/
"Music expresses that which cannot be said in words, but must not remain
silent."
.
"Leif Bloomquist" <sp...@127.0.0.620> wrote in message
news:IYydnbnazvc8XmzX...@supernews.com...
Are you looking for gratitude?
If so, forget it..every-one expects
something for free, and couldn`t be bothered
giving something in return.
Joe Cassara
> Since nobody seemed to care about the RTS game for the VIC-20 that
As I once told that Harry Potter fellow: write software and create
hardware for the Commodore 8-bits if the act will bring you joy.
Don't concern yourself with who will find your creation useful -- or
even use it. If you care about marketing a useable product (free or
for-profit) and gauging market interest, focus your efforts on
something commercially viable, like software for Windows, OS X, or
Linux.
Joe C.
chad_lee
wrote:
> saehn schrieb:
>
> I still like to play on the C64 but I wonder how many people still use
> it for gaming. Most of the competitions etc. are for demos, I'd really
> like to have some gaming parties. Altough I think some people still
> might play some challenges from time to time but when I was playing
> Snoopy yesterday I just asked myself if I am the only one in the world
> playing this right now...
I still enjoy playing C64 games. There is something about the
simplicity of some of the older games that I really like. Personally,
I do wish there were more things like gaming parties and more support
a home-brewed game scene.
Back in the old days, some friends and I used to try writing games to
be published in various magazines. We never did, but still, those were
some of the most memorable times in my life. It was fun doing the
work, but the most enjoyable parts were hanging out with friends,
discussing new ideas and having a group of people to show off the
latest progress and get feedback and motivation to keep going.
One thing I have learned: it is much better to start with a very basic
game idea and expand on it during the development than it is to start
with a big idea that will require compromises to implement it.
Sam McDavid
<rud...@temporaryforwarding.com> said:
Rudolf, not only was there a Bomberman clone made for the C64, but it's
still available for sale through Protovision today! It's called Bomb
Mania. Check it out: http://bit.ly/7vLyql
Sam McDavid
I've just today returned to the Usenet after a multi-year absence, and
it's great to see that the guy who runs my absolute favorite YouTube
channel is active here. I've been watching David torture fire ants and
talk about iBooks for a while now. Cheers from a fan.
I saw your Planet X1 video when you first posted it, and like others I
was looking forward to a C64 release. Also like the others I had
planned on waiting for a finished product before downloading and trying
it out. If the community's apparent lack of interest was in any way
disheartening, I'm sure it wasn't as bad as it might've seemed.
Keep up the good work! I'd like to cast my vote for a C64 version of
Planet X1, officially. And if you'd like my opinion on the interface
for your C64 RTS game, I really think it's best, as has been mentioned
here before, to include support for the 1351. The only games I've known
to include native (non-joystick mode) support for it that I can
remember were Arkanoid II and Faery Tale Adventure. I remember trying
to play the LucasFilm point-and-click games with it, but it wasn't
nearly as usable when trying to emulate a joystick.
My two best arguments for 1351 support:
1. Most emulators support the 1351, and most people will likely play
the game under emulation.
2. Mouse support would serve the game best. RTS games beg for mouse
support. I'm sure you could throw in joystick controls as an
afterthought, but if you were going to make the best possible RTS you
could make, the mouse would unquestionably be the best option.
Rudolf Harras
>Rudolf, not only was there a Bomberman clone made for the C64, but it's
>still available for sale through Protovision today! It's called Bomb
>Mania. Check it out: http://bit.ly/7vLyql
Oh fine. I took a look on it but the steering is not really very smooth.
:(
I can't help but it has not the same feeling like Book which is also
very simple.