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DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest Monday, January 4, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 3

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

Cheap DIY doublesided floppy
Re: 40-folder bug and FOLDRXXX.PRG
Re: Hard disk boot???
RS232
Re: FOLDRXXX.PRG, you got it!
Re: Multi-tasking?
Re: Amiga and MIDI
Re: Atari's Marketing Approach

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 23 Dec 87 12:13:32 GMT
From: mcvax!diku!iesd!ju...@uunet.uu.net (Sten Kroyer)
Subject: Cheap DIY doublesided floppy
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

THESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTART

This is partially a retransmission of an earlier posting, but since I'm
not sure that the first posting got around, and there's been some talk
on the subject since then, here goes again.

In message <2...@xrns.UUCP> Tom Love writes:

>hello out there... i hope i am not adding to the clamor of people
>crying out for help with 5.25" drives; this is actually a different
>question. i would like to have an external 3.5" DSDD floppy drive
>to go along with the one already inside my 1040ST. i do not, however,
>desire one bad enough to pay the $200 plus which atari dealers seem to
>want to charge. i do not mind a little hardware hacking, and don't
>mind scabby looking assemblies with wires hanging out all over them.

In message <87122119...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Gregory Welych writes:

>I have had one of my disk drives die on me, and rather than try to get
>it fixed, (it was only a single sided drive anyways) I decided to
>buy a cheap(er?) double sided drive. I hooked the new drive into
>the little converter card inside an Atari drive, and connected
>the power supply up. It works fine except for one slight problem
>which can cause MAJOR problems with certain software.
>The problem is this:
> Say I boot up with disk A in drive A, and disk B in drive B.
> ( drive B is the new drive )
> Then after I get the desktop, I change drive B's disk to disk C.
> ( I have a window automatically opened for drive B on the desktop)
> Then I hit ESC to get the new directory, but it doesn't know
> I changed the disk. I am assuming that the disk drive has not reported
> media change to the ST so it doen't think that there might have been
> a switch.
>
>Now to my main question:
> What in the Atari drives senses the change of media?????????!!????
> And how does the drive signal this to the ST?????
>
>Thanks in advance for any help,
>
>Greg Welych.


A couple of months back, my 1040ST suddenly blew its internal
doublesided floppydrive. Since this was the only drive connected, it
was a disaster ! My beloved Babs was (almost) dead. She would
eventually boot, and come up with an empty desktop. That's a boring
game (it wasn't so :-) at the time). What went wrong, I don't know, I
tried plucking everything apart to check for any loose connections
etc., but no luck. A custom chip in the drive did get awfully hot
though.

To summarize, I found myself in a situation somewhat similar to yours:
I had to get a new drive somehow. Not wanting to pay for an original
Atari-drive, I came up with a reasonably cheap solution. A little
research revealed that the internal drive used a standard Shugart
interface (both in terms of signals AND connectors). So the problem
could be reduced to finding a (cheap) bare drive equipped with the
Shugart interface. That's easy enough. I picked a NEC-drive type
1036A, a drive known for its reliability and quiet operation. It's
also smaller than the original Ataridrive (which seems be from
Hitachi), so with a little fiddling I managed to get it crammed into
place. (I had to make some minor changes to the ST-case). The proof of
the pudding ? Well, I removed the old drive, plugged in the new one,
turned on the power, and Babs made a successfull boot from disc and
has been happily humming ever since.

So to connect another external drive, all it seems one has to do is:

A) Buy a bare drive.

B) Pick up the floppysignals from the ST's external floppy
interface. The connections are as shown (seen from the rear):

11 10 PIN SIGNAL INPUT/OUTPUT
1 read data i
9 8 2 side select o
13 12 3 gnd n.a
7 6 4 index i
14 5 drive 0 select + i
5 4 6 drive 1 select + i
7 gnd n.a
3 2 8 motor on o
1 9 direction o
10 step o
11 write data o
12 write gate o
13 track 00 i
14 write protect i

+ : On the 1040's external floppy interface, only the drive 0 select is
active. It carries the actual drive 1 select signal. That way
the external drive automatically becomes drive B.

The standard Shugart interface (again as seen from the rear) looks
like this:
___________________________________________________
/////////////////////////////////////////////////// <- Edge of
--------------------------------------------------- PCB
: 33 . . . . . . . . 1 :
: 34 . . . . . . . . 2 :
:----------------------:

PIN SIGNAL INPUT/OUTPUT PIN SIGNAL INPUT/OUTPUT
2 motor on 1 * i 18 direction i
4 in use * i 20 step i
6 drive select 3 * i 22 write data i
8 index o 24 write gate i
10 drive select 0 + i 26 track 00 o
12 drive select 1 + i 28 write protect o
14 motor on 2/ * i 30 read data o
drive select 2 32 side select i
16 motor on 0 i 34 ready * o

PIN 1-33 are all connected to ground (gnd).

*: Not used by the ST. +: Only one of these should be used. It
might be jumper-configurable which is the active input.


C) Supply the drive with some power. I'm not sure if an 1040's
internal supply can cope with two drives. However, since
3.5 inch drives have a low powerconsumption (my 1036A is
rated at 1.8 W), a simple 5/12 volts powersupply shouldn't
be so costly. The connections looks like this
_______________________
/////////////////////// <- Edge of PCB
-----------------------
: ____:-----:____ : 1: +5 v dc
: O O O O : 2: GND
------------------- 3: GND
1 2 3 4 4: +12 v dc

D) Add cabinet to your taste.

There's a tiny fly in the ointment, however. (There had to be, right?)
The VBL-interrupt routine in the ST, uses the status of the
WRITEPROTECT-line from the drive to check if the disc has been
ejected. Since the level of this signal is reflected in the
statusregister of the floppydisc-controller, all the VBL-routine has
to do is read the contents of this register from time to time. For
this system to function, the drive has to toggle its WRPROT-line in
some fashion (which i haven't bothered to figure out), whenever the
disc is ejected. This represented no problem in my case, since the
latest version (which was the one I used) of NEC FD1036A, is fully
"ST-modified" and thus plug-in-and-go compatible. I bought my drive in
W-Germany and payed around 220,- DM, which is VERY cheap by danish
standards. (#include<standardcomplaint.tax> :-( ).

Well, I have to stop rambling. Let's hear more about homebrewed
hardware-projects on this group. See you next time on the Newsshow.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
: "I hate silly citations" "The opinions expressed above are :
: Steen Kroyer hopefully not mine alone. Should :
: that however, be the case, it :
: only goes to show that I'm smar- :
: vWWWv ter than the rest of you. (:-)" :
: vWWWWWWWv :
: :/^^ ^^\: :
: O @ @ O ju...@iesd.uucp (Steen Kroyer) :
: O L O :
: ( <O> ) <- I don't really look that silly !! :
: \_____/ :
:____________________________________________________________________:

THEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEEND

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 14:40:21 GMT
From: mind!rom...@princeton.edu (Antonio Romero)
Subject: Re: 40-folder bug and FOLDRXXX.PRG
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <9...@atari.UUCP>, apr...@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:
> in article <5...@pyuxe.UUCP>, cr...@pyuxe.UUCP (C. Colbert) says:
> > In one of the atari periodicals it was announced that they fixed the 40
> > folder bug in the Mega St roms.
> I WILL TELL YOU WHEN THE 40-FOLDER BUG IS FIXED. DO NOT BELIEVE ANY
> OTHER REPORTS UNTIL YOU HEAR IT FROM ME. I AM THE ONLY PERSON WORKING
> ON THIS.


Uh... guys? Did you hear him say what I just heard him say?
Did Alan just say that there's ONLY ONE PERSON WORKING ON THE WORST PROBLEM
THEIR MACHINE HAS?
Just how small an operation is Atari, anyway?
(Actually, my guess is EVERYONE else is working on the 40-folder bug on the
Transputer box...)

When the fix is made, maybe I'll buy an Atari. I still have a certain
amount of faith in Atari's ability to deliver a decent value, despite all
the griping I've seen on this group since the ST came out.

>
> I *am* working on it, so don't despair. When the fix comes out, it will
> be more sweeping than you think (unless you think big).

Hmm. Does this suggest upcoming compatibility problems?
Or perhaps the advent of a new operating system altogether?
Could it be... MULTITASKING? Okay guys, warm up the rumor mills...

-Antonio Romero
rom...@psycho.Princeton.EDU

PS-- Hi Charlie!

------------------------------

Date: 15 Dec 87 15:19:00 GMT
From: cca!mirror!datacube!f...@husc6.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: Hard disk boot???
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

fede...@actisb.UUCP writes:
> [The line eater was sleeping again ...]

> In article <6...@aucs.UUCP> 870...@aucs.UUCP (barry comer) writes:
> >I have a few questions for anyone using a SH204 with a Mega ST. I have a
Meag2
> >with a SH204, I have being auto booting from the hard disk using HDB_V2.3, I
> >used to be able to auto boot from the floppy when the CTRL,SHIFT, and ALT.
> >keys were held down, well since I started using the Mega, the machine always
> >boots from the hard disk with the keys down or up??????????????

> I didn't know of the CTRL-SHIFT-ALT trick, but I had a problem similar
> to yours: there was no way my Mega would boot from floppy, and that
> turned out to be quite a problem when a desk accessory I had downloded
> from somewhere was turned unusable because of line noise. My "solution"
> was not to boot from hard disk at all, which I now find better since it
> allows me to choose different configurations (desk accesories and such)
> depending on the job I'm going to do.

I have the new ("blitter") ROMs in my 1040, and have noticed the same behavior
when booting (I have a Supra disk, with their hard disk boot program
installed). Anyone have a guess as to why? (hello, apratt?)


> >I am also using GEMBOOT to overcome the 40 folder limit in TOS(has it been
> >fixed with the new ROMS?).

> I'm also interested on this question, and it has been already asked a couple
> of times with no visible answer. I've never used the old ROMs, so I don't
> know what the infamous "40 folder limit" means. I've had more than 40 folders
> on my hard disk and nothing happened. Does this mean that the problem is
> fixed? Or is it 40 folders DEEP?

Au contraire, the question has been answered here before in a definitive
manner. That answer is: NO The blitter ROMs do not fix the 40 folder bug.

The 40 folder bug refers to a problem where a filesystem on a hard disk or
diskette can become corrupted if more than 40 folders are accessed during
any one "session" with an ST ("session": period of use between re-boots).
A well-known workaround is the recently re-posted FOLDRXXX.PRG. Change XXX
in the program name to the number of folders you think you're likeky to
access during any one use of the machine, and stick the program in your
\AUTO folder, and re-boot.

I have heard from other netters that this bug is due to memory not being
freed-up when you jumo into and out of folders (directories). Correct
me if I'm wrong on that...


> ///////
> //____ //
> Federico // //
> // __ //
> // / / //
> ///////


> UUCP: ...!mcvax!unido!tub!actisb
> BIX: fheinz


Farrell T. Woods

Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group 4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960
VOICE: 617-535-6644; FAX: (617) 535-5643; TWX: (710) 347-0125
INTERNET: f...@datacube.COM
UUCP: {rutgers, ihnp4, mirror}!datacube!ftw

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 87 14:06:12 EST
From: macc...@ed.ecn.purdue.edu (Carl A Maccarley)
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu
Subject: RS232

From Michael Czeiszperger's posting:

>In article <22...@tekig4.TEK.COM> bri...@tekig4.UUCP (Brian Rhodefer) writes:
>>Michael S Czeisperger: "...Midi is less of a standard than RS232..."
>>Oh, Noooo! It can't be THAT bad, can it?
>Oh, whoops! I didn't really mean that! I was trying to imply that
>RS-232 is more of a general protocol that you'd want on a computer,
>where MIDI is specialized so that it can only be used for music. If

Just to add further confusion to this discussion...
I'm pretty sure that EIA RS-232c is just a hardware spec, eg., voltage
swing, line assignments, line loading, maximum line length, etc.
I don't believe there's anything in the spec about transmission protocols,
but I admit that the term RS-232 seems to have taken on a broader
colloquial meaning.

macc...@ed.ecn.purdue.edu

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 87 16:03:00 GMT
From: cca!mirror!datacube!f...@husc6.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: FOLDRXXX.PRG, you got it!
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

cr...@pyuxe.UUCP writes:
> In one of the atari periodicals it was announced that they fixed the 40 folder
> bug in the Mega St roms.

If those are the same ROMs that they are selling us developers, then the
answer is NO, the "40 folder bug" still exists, and the magazine article
is incorrect.

Neil: please jump in here if if the ROM upgrade for the 520/1040 is different
than what is in the Megas. I understand they are the same.


Farrell T. Woods

Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group 4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960
VOICE: 617-535-6644; FAX: (617) 535-5643; TWX: (710) 347-0125
INTERNET: f...@datacube.COM
UUCP: {rutgers, ihnp4, mirror}!datacube!ftw

"OS/2 -- Half an operating system"

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 16:13:48 GMT
From: m2c!ulowell!pa...@husc6.harvard.edu (Bob Page)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking?
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Most PEOPLE don't multitask on a computer, they task-switch.

HOWEVER! Having multitasking available allows one to write (and use)
programs that multitask internally - sending messages back and forth
to each other, processing things concurrently rather than serially.
Many nice programs on multi-tasking machines just aren't possible on
any single-tasking machine because they INTERNALLY take advantage of
the machine's ability to multi-task and message-pass. Examples on
request, by E-mail.

As a user, MultiFinder is all I want, in most cases. But n

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 05:04:09 GMT
From: ihnp4!homxb!hropus!ki4pv!codas!killer!e...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Eric
Green)
Subject: Re: Amiga and MIDI
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

in article <4...@gethen.UUCP>, far...@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) says:
> In article <22...@tekig4.TEK.COM> bri...@tekig4.UUCP (Brian Rhodefer) writes:
>>If only all the originators/promulgators of RS232 had just one neck,
>>and I could get my hands around it....
>
> There is an RS-232 standard. You can get it from (I think) the American
> National Standards Institute. I've got a copy somewhere around here
> myself. In that standard, everything having to do with an RS-232 interface
> is defined, carefully, from the rise times of the signals to their meaning
> to the pins and connectors they are supposed to go to.

Unfortunately, even if you adhere completely to the standard, half the devices
in the world still won't talk to you without a breakout-box or cable
switching. When the only devices extant were computers and terminals, that was
no big deal, but tell me, how about hooking up a terminal concentrator/network
node to printers, computers, terminals, .... We're talking BIG-time troubles
here, we're talking about cabling nightmares to end all nightmares, even if
the standard IS followed (and it usually isn't -- e.g. a switcher which
arbitrarily decides to ignore an outgoing line if certain transitions don't
occure at certain times, and a network node which refuses to give the switcher
those transitions -- thus FUbaring things horribly.).

I hated having to mutilate my cable to flop RxD and TxD when I hooked up an
Amiga to a C-64 to transfer files at 9600 baud (yes, there's some magic
involved :-).

--
Eric Lee Green e...@usl.CSNET Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191
{cbosgd,ihnp4}!killer!elg Lafayette, LA 70509
"There's someone in my head, but it's not me...." -PF

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 16:53:59 GMT
From: voder!apple!lan...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Landon Dyer)
Subject: Re: Atari's Marketing Approach
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Atari does a lot of "re-manufacturing" as well. Rev-A boards go in, for
instance, and Rev-Ds pop out the other end. atari!jwt could probably shed
more light on this subject (he has actually SEEN the plant in Taiwan), but
he's probably not allowed to say much. 'tain't that interesting, anyway....

-Landon
--

I speak for me.

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
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Reply-To: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: INFO-A16@CANADA01
From: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.EDU

Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #4
To: PET...@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest Tuesday, January 5, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 4

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

Re: BMS controller package
A defense of Multi-tasking
A different view on multitasking.
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
Re: BMS controller package
Re: Degas Elite PostScript Driver
Re: Great Demo from Rex...
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
Re: Microsoft Write ...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 18:12:57 GMT
From: sgi!daisy!tur...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: BMS controller package
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

From article <9...@ssc.UUCP>, by f...@ssc.UUCP (Phil Hughes):
>
> I have tme BMS controller. It works fine (once we found the bugs but
> that was almost a year ago). The only question I have about it is does
> it actually cost less. You need to buy the interface and controller
> ($250, I think), then get a drive, box and power supply.
> No problems putting it together but when you are done you probably
> could have bought a Supra or Atari drive.
> --
> Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549, Seattle, WA 98155 (206)FOR-UNIX
> uw-beaver!tikal!ssc!fyl or uunet!pilchuck!ssc!fyl or attmail!ssc!fyl


agreeded, I alway felt the advantages of the BMS solution were:

1. It came with a battery backed-up real time clock

2. It supports two hard disks on the same controller

3. If and when i wanted to upgrade to a larger disk, i just unplugged
the old one and plugged the new one in

as to cost, be creative, most cities support at least one good used
electronic surplus/salvage store

--
Laissez les bons temps rouler - Queen Ida
..{decwrl:ucbvax}!imagen!atari!daisy!turner (James M. Turner)
Daisy Systems, 700 E. Middlefield Rd, P.O. Box 7006,
Mountain View CA 94039-7006. (415)960-0123

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 16:12:13 GMT
From: denb...@bbn.com (Steven Den Beste)
Subject: A defense of Multi-tasking
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

The original poster of this subject asked if there was a place where
multi-tasking was "essential". Many people responded with ways to use
multi-tasking, and the original poster always responded with one of two
answers:

1. There are other ways to do that that don't involve multi-tasking.
Multi-tasking therefore isn't essential for that task.
2. Only sophisticated users would want to do that. (He called them "Power
users.)

[Well, actually, there was a third answer used a couple of times:
3. Why are you being so abusive in a publicly posted article? Why didn't
you mail it to me so I could ignore it?
But that's not relevant to the subject...]

Let's get one thing straight. Multi-tasking is not "essential".

Neither are high-level languages. You can do anything in assembly language you
can do in C or BASIC, but it is less convenient. (MUCH less convenient.)

Nor are icons. People survived for years with text-only computer interfaces.

[For that matter, assemblers aren't "essential" either - you can key in machine
language directly in hex. And if you really want to get down to it, the
computer itself isn't "essential".]

I'm not suggesting that multi-tasking is as important as high level languages.
That's not the point. I _am_ saying that requiring a feature to be "essential"
to be included is a ridiculous criterion. The proper criteria are "useful"
and "convenient".

On the Mac, there are many programs which can run simultaneously. To do this,
however, they must be written in a very special way and the operating system
must be specifically informed of each.

This is certainly an approach, and it seems to work for the Mac owners.
There are certain special cases on the ST, I am sure, where more than one thing
can happen at the same time (like a print spooler, for instance) - again it is
done specially.

On a general purpose multi-tasker, ANY two programs can run simultaneously,
unless one of them is being a particularly bad citizen. Though this isn't
"essential", isn't that more convenient?

Which brings us to the second argument: Even if multi-tasking is indeed useful
and convenient, it still won't be used by the great unwashed (called typical
users in the original posting). Only "power users" would use it.

I don't quite understand why that means a feature should be omitted. Is it
being suggested that a feature should only be included in a product if EVERY
OWNER of that product will use it?

More importantly, it assumes that the users won't mature and become more
sophisticated. Though a user may not use a feature when the product is first
purchased, many times the user will grow into it as time progresses. "Power
users" all began as unsophisticated users.

However, they won't mature if the machine they are on won't let them. I used to
know quite a few owners of TRS Model I's, who were wizard Basic programmers,
but were so restricted otherwise by the machine, that they might now never
grow out of it, even if now given a better system.

In many ways, it is desirable that a machine provide some advanced features
that the new user won't immediately use, so as to provide room for maturation
and learning...

..providing it is done so that the user isn't forced to use this feature
before ready.


Which leads me to the last point: The original poster stated, but never
justified, a belief that providing multi-tasking was not merely useless but
actually undesirable. I don't see it.

If:
1. Multi-tasking doesn't add to the purchase price of the product
2. It isn't intrusive on people who don't understand or need it right now
3. It is available for those who do understand it, or those who grow into
it

Then
I state that it is an unmixed asset and should be in the product. I would
be very interested in hearing why, given these three assumptions,
multi-tasking should be omitted from a product.

If you change any of the assumptions, then you are arguing against a
strawman. All three of them are true for multi-tasking on the Amiga.

If you say "There are other ways" that is irrelevant. The point is not to
show alternatives, but to actually demonstrate that multi-tasking is a negative
thing in its own right.


If you cannot demonstrate that it is an actual danger, then it is merely
useless for most (but not all!) users. But since, by the assumptions, it
doesn't impede those users who don't use it, then its ability to attract "power
users" makes it an asset. (It attracted me - it is the main reason I bought the
Amiga.) (By the way, by so doing it represents an indirect asset for those
unsophisticated users, because the "power users" are cranking out public domain
software which the unsophisticated users can get for free. 120 880K Fish-disks
at last count.)


We therefore have three classes of users for the multi-tasking machine:

1. Those who don't understand and won't use multi-tasking, but are not impeded
by it. [If you think they are impeded, then we are out of the realm of the
theory and into fact. I state as a fact that it does not impede rank amateurs
on the Amiga.]

2. Those who don't understand it to begin with, but grow into it.

3. Those who understand it and use it from the very beginning.


Group 1 isn't bothered by its presence. Group 2 and Group 3 benefit by it. How
can it be a bad thing?


--------------------------------
Which brings us finally to the issue of the motive of the original poster.
Let's try some syllogisms, shall we?

1. The Atari ST is an ideal computer
2. The Atari ST doesn't have multi-tasking
ERGO Ideal computers don't require multi-tasking.

1. If several machines offer multi-tasking, people will grow to expect it.
2. If people grow to expect it, they will refuse to buy machines not having
it.
ERGO If several machines offer multi-tasking, the public will refuse to
buy machines not having it.

1. If several machines offer multi-tasking, the public will refuse to
buy machines not having multi-tasking.
2. The Atari ST doesn't have multi-tasking.
ERGO If several machines offer multi-tasking, Atari ST sales will suffer.

1. Anything which causes Atari ST sales to suffer is dangerous.
2. If several machines offer multi-tasking, Atari ST sales will suffer.
ERGO It is dangerous for other machines to offer multi-tasking.

Could these be the real reasons behind the original posting? Or maybe just a
deliberate attempt to stir up trouble?
--
Steven C. Den Beste, Bolt Beranek & Newman, Cambridge MA
denb...@bbn.com(ARPA/CSNET/UUCP) harvard!bbn.com!denbeste(UUCP)
I don't think BBN cares what I think about this stuff.
And that's probably just as well.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 87 17:25:29 EST
From: SARGON%UMass....@forsythe.stanford.edu
Subject: A different view on multitasking.
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In light of the humorous (if not entirely short sighted) notes on the
usefulness of multitasking to the "average" microcomputer user I thought
Id toss in some historically relevant views..

1. A microcomputer user will never need anything more than a few
cassette tapes to hold his work.

2. A microcomputer user will never need anything but a TV set to display
information from a computer.

3. A microcomputer user will never need even as much as 64K of memory.

4. A microcomputer user will never need a language other than interpretive
BASIC to perform any task.

Last time I heard the Atari 1040ST came with an 800K floppy disk drive,
requires a monitor (as Atari didnt put the modulator in there), comes
stock with 1MB of RAM and doesnt come stock with BASIC. Does this make
the designers at Atari morons for putting in such useless junk? I think
not.

Finally, your "average" user of a modern microcomputer (this gets rid of
the Apple II and C64 crowds) is more likely to be in a business or higher
education setting than in the kitchen as a $x000 recipie file. Both of
these areas are demanding the ability to share and distribute information.
This means networks. Networks need software drivers that requires a
certain degree of multitasking. Im sure Atari the self proclaimed
"vertically integrated" computer maker will be (or hopefully IS) working
on both multitasking and networking. The 286/386 and the 030 all have
memory management hardware whether you use it or not. Why not use it?
-Steve
ccccccccccc
Stephen Halpin Sar...@UMass.BITNET
PO Box 241
Amherst, MA 01004-0241

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 18:44:00 GMT
From: cbmvax!sch...@rutgers.edu (Dan Schein CATS)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

I usually dont reply to these net wars because there is never a winner and
they only surface again in 6-8 months, but.....

In article <4...@Lindy.STANFORD.EDU> ke...@Lindy.Stanford.EDU (Kevin Burnett)
writes:
>In article <26...@gryphon.CTS.COM> ric...@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton)
writes:
>>Speak for yourself, you nit. You have no idea what *I* do, or what *I*
>>need.
>I don't believe he said anything about how YOU use your computer.
>And, you're asking for this comment, ASSHOLE.

Soap Box mode ON ***

Comments like these are not needed. If you can not hold a discussion / debate
in a more mature adult manner, then please do it in e-mail. I am really getting
tired of adding more and more subjects to my kill file. Im sure that hidden in
each of these flame throwing messages is a valid point, but in the way these
point(s) are presented, its sure hard to find them. Im not asking you to stop
this "my dad can beat up your dad" battle (Heck sometimes even I need a good
laugh), just use a little more thought into what others think when they read
your message and how your message reflects on comp.sys.amiga.

Soap Box mode OFF ***
--
Dan Schein uucp: {ihnp4:allegra:burdvax:rutgers}!cbmvax!schein
Commodore AMIGA Bix: dschein Plink: Dan*CATS
1200 Wilson Drive phone: (215) 431-9100 ext. 9542
West Chester PA 19380
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
All spelling mistakes are a result of my efforts to avoid education :-)
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
I help Commodore by supporting the AMIGA. Commodore supports
me by allowing me to form my own suggestions and comments.

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 15:39:06 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!water!ljdi...@rutgers.edu (Lee Dickey)
Subject: Re: BMS controller package
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <9...@ssc.UUCP> f...@ssc.UUCP (Phil Hughes) writes:
]
] I have the BMS controller. It works fine (once we found the bugs but
] that was almost a year ago). ...


What were the bugs?
If I were to buy such a board, I would probably *never* find the bugs.


--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdi...@watmath.UUCP UUCP: ...!uunet!watmath!ljdickey
ljdickey%wa...@waterloo.edu ljdi...@watdcs.BITNET
ljdickey%water%waterlo...@csnet-relay.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 20:51:50 GMT
From: uw-entropy!dataio!pilchuck!ssc!f...@june.cs.washington.edu (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: Degas Elite PostScript Driver
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <871223115...@lasso.laas.fr>, ra...@lasso.UUCP (Ralph P. Sobek)
writes:
> Does there exist a program which converts Degas Elite format files to
> PostScript? Thanks a whole bunch!

Well, the bad way is to use Publishing Partner. It works unless
PP screws it up (which does happen). I have used this method (it is
how I got the graphics into our new UNIX products catalog) but would
like to have a cleaner way.

--
Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549, Seattle, WA 98155 (206)FOR-UNIX
uw-beaver!tikal!ssc!fyl or uunet!pilchuck!ssc!fyl or attmail!ssc!fyl

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 04:19:35 GMT
From: dalcs!garfield!joh...@uunet.uu.net (John Russell)
Subject: Re: Great Demo from Rex...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <58...@jhunix.UUCP> ins_...@jhunix.UUCP (Jared J Brennan) writes:
> The program did the same thing on my machine (except vertically). Play
..
> You can probably attribute this to hardware dependencies. The monitor

The game Goldrunner (European) has a 50/60 hz option. At the European frequency
the screen jumps like you describe so it may be continent dependency :-).

John
--
"...and intuition, in a case such as this, is of crucial importance."
-- William Gibson, _Count_Zero_

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 15:42:12 GMT
From: mcrware!jej...@uunet.uu.net (James Jones)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <3...@lakesys.UUCP>, ma...@lakesys.UUCP (Mark Storin) writes:
> If all he ever needs is simple word processing or file keeping then he can
> find those in the simplest of computers (8-bit machines like Apples and
> Atari's)...

I agree with Mr. Storin's main point fully, and moreover think that Joe
Average will, unless he's very careful, actually *learn* something about
what his computer can do and take advantage of multitasking eventually,
but--I think that a visit to a friend or neighbor with a CoCo 3 running
OS-9 will show that one can have multitasking on an 8-bit machine. (Much
less a visit to a place with a dozen folks hacking merrily away on a
Gimix 6809-based computer.)

James Jones

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 21:08:51 GMT
From: mcrware!dr...@uunet.uu.net (Andy Nicholson)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

> Of course, you can get OS-9 (and IDRIS) for the Atari ST. So there. You
> can multi-task to your hearts content, regardless of the machine. BUT I
> still insist that, for the non "power user" there's no need for it.
>
> -- Dave Meile

I normally avoid religious wars, but this is too much. Just who are
these mythical "non-power-users" that don't need multi-tasking. Everyone
is trying to convince you that they don't exist. I'll tell you what.
You show joe user what muti-tasking can do and then tell him that he is
too unsophisticated to use it. Then duck. Manufacturers who underestimate
buyers go out of business. If "joe user" couldn't use multi-tasking, we
would not have kludgo simulations (TSR's, desk accessories, etc.). As one
of my co-workers posted, it is only a matter of education. Joe user expects
magic from a computer. As soon as he realizes a computer can't do two things
at once, like he can, he'll be unhappy. He wants multi-tasking.

And I'm not picking a bone for the Amiga over the Atari. Note my employer.
We only support one of those two machines. And its not the Amiga.

Sorry, no cute signature file.
Andy Nicholson
"Opinions expressed here were placed by Christmas elves trying to get me into
trouble."

Merry X-MAS!

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 04:05:14 GMT
From: lakesys!mar...@csd1.milw.wisc.edu (Martin Wiedmeyer)
Subject: Re: Microsoft Write ...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Neil, what's the Mfg's Suggested Retail Price (list price) for MS
Write?
Thanks,
Marty
--
: Martin Wiedmeyer - Lake Systems, Milwaukee, WI :
: UUCP: {ihnp4,uwvax}!uwmcsd1!lakesys!martin :
: Disclaimer: "I take the heat for my own (mis)statements!" :

Testing Vax Bitnet Connection

unread,
Jan 6, 1988, 9:31:14 AM1/6/88
to

--------------- A copy of your rejected mail message follows ---------------

Received: by CANADA01 (Mailer X1.24) id 3603; Wed, 06 Jan 88 08:15:19 EDT
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 88 22:15:53 PST


Reply-To: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: INFO-A16@CANADA01
From: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.EDU

Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #5
To: PET...@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest Tuesday, January 5, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 5

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

Re: Christmas Adventure - Elves87 Part 1 of 4
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
WordPerfect on ST
Abaq Developer Kits
Info atari instructions.
Re: WordPerfect on ST
Re: Failing Disk Drive & Strange TPA pointer

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 15:24:16 GMT
From: hao!scdpyr!cr...@AMES.ARPA (Craig Ruff)
Subject: Re: Christmas Adventure - Elves87 Part 1 of 4
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <2...@dalcsug.UUCP> eul...@dalcsug.UUCP (George Seto) writes:
>Here is the first of hopefully many adventures from BOA! which stands
>for Burnt Out Adventurers!. This is a Christmas theme adventure. The
>ST loader will show a little picture before loading the game. ...
^^

Why are comp.sys.mac and comp.sys.ibm being cluttered up with this stuff?
Atari ST binaries, never the less. Please, show some restraint in what
news groups you post this stuff to. It doesn't do us much good to receive
useless ST binaries in comp.sys.mac or comp.sys.ibm!
--
Craig Ruff NCAR INTERNET: cr...@scdpyr.UCAR.EDU
(303) 497-1211 P.O. Box 3000 CSNET: cr...@ncar.CSNET
Boulder, CO 80307 UUCP: cr...@scdpyr.UUCP

------------------------------

Date: 23 Dec 87 16:50:56 GMT
From: ssc-vax!shuksan!tahoma!hrsw2!bak...@beaver.cs.washington.edu (David E.
Bakken)


Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <5...@otto.COM>, r...@otto.COM (Rex Jolliff) writes:
>
> I think, however, that the first time home (or other) computer user will not
> realize or utilize the full potential of Multitasking for quite a while. They
> will have enough fun just making the computer do things one at a time.
>
I can't count how many non-technical types I've shown Amy and they have
no problem comprehending what multitasking can do for them if they are
given a few examples. Once the light goes on they tend to use it often.
Heck, I don't even need to show then Amy - 4 or 5 well chosen sentences
does the trick. Which is why I am really dissapointed (to put it mildly)
that C= has not run commercials that help people to see the light. That
should be easy to accomplish in a 60 second spot, maybe even in 30 seconds.
Peter's commercial idea with Big Blue, Mac, Amy, and the flunky was a
classical case in point.

--
Dave Bakken
Boeing Commercial Airplane Company
uw-beaver!apcisea!tahoma!hrsw2!bakken (206) 234-2039
(generic) disclaimer: these views are my own, not my employers.

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 18:55:51 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!RJk...@uunet.uu.net
Subject: WordPerfect on ST
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Hey everyone! I'm looking for someone who has (or has used) WordPefect on
the Atari-ST. I'm thinking of buying this software!

I would be interested in the following:

1. How much faster (if any) is it than WordWriter-ST?

2. Is the spelling checker better than WordWriter-ST or Thunder?

3. Is the GEM interface good?

4. Are there Keyboard Equavilents to the Mouse/Gem commands?

5. Any other opinions or comments RE: Wordproccesing on the ATARI-ST


Thanks a bunch, and MERRY CHRISTMASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Richard...RJknees@cup.portal.com

------------------------------

Date: 23 Dec 87 22:50:12 GMT
From: portal!atari!ne...@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris)
Subject: Abaq Developer Kits
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Before my mailbox overflows:

There is a program in place for Abaq developers. In the USA, you can get
information on what documentation will be available, and a more complete
look at the Abaq itself, from Atari. In the UK you should go right to
Perihelion.

To get the information package, write to:

Atari Corp.
1196 Borregas Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94086
Attn: Cindy Claveran

To become a registered developer of the Abaq, you can get the documentation
package and get news of when developer units will be available. The cost is
$100, sent to the same person listed above.

--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 15:40:24 GMT
From: ra...@mcnc.org (Ravi Subrahmanyan)
Subject: Info atari instructions.
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

This message contains the latest info-atari instructions to
subscribers. Please go through it (even seasoned users!) and retain
for future reference. Of special interest to BITNET users (and
interent users with access to bitnet) is a section on accessing the
16-bit program libraries at the Univ of Houston.

The info-atari moderators.

Welcome To Info-Atari.

1. Sending Messages

You may send messages to all "subscribers" by address-
ing it to

info-...@score.stanford.edu

and/or

info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Administrative messages should be sent to

info-atari{8,16}-request.

Please do NOT send general messages to this address. Your
moderators get enough mail as it is!

2. Ground Rules

All messages should be in good taste. Commercial mes-
sages and advertisements are not permitted. When answering a
question, please consider carefully whether the answer
should go to the whole list, or just to the person who asked
the question.

The following ground rules should make the use of this
(or of any other) mailing list much easier:

* never send a message that a totally irrelevant to the
mailing list's purpose to a mailing list. This espe-
cially includes any expressions of irritation at
another list member.

* never forward a message that is totally irrelevant to
the mailing list's purpose to a mailing list.

* when replying to a message on a mailing list, reply
only to the sender of the message unless the reply is
of interest to the entire mailing list.

* avoid inserting the message being replied to in a
reply, especially in a message going to a mailing list.
The context of the reply should be clear from *your*
reply and from various mailer functionalities such as
Message-ID.

* when replying to an earlier reply that violates the
previous rule, ABSOLUTELY DO NOT make matters worse by
adding your own violation.

December 25, 1987

- 2 -


3. Archives

Archives are kept in several places in formats avail-
able to everyone. As described below, if you are on
ARPANET/DDN you will probably find it more convenient to
retrieve files from the archive on radc-softvax.arpa using
FTP. If you are not on ARPANET/DDN, or are unable to use
FTP, you will be able to retrieve files from archives dis-
tributed over several Bitnet hosts by sending mail (notes)
to a program called LISTSERV.

3.1. Archives on radc-softvax.arpa

Files from radc-softvax.arpa are available by FTP. FTP
will work only for hosts directly connected to ARPANET/DDN.
Please obtain local documentation and advice for the FTP
user programming running on your host. There are two direc-
tories under the anonymous account. One for atari8 and one
for atari16.

FTP to radc-softvax using login:guest and
password:guest. To get the current list of available atari16
files do a 'get atari16/files.doc'. All of the atari16 files
are stored in the atari16 subdirectory. If you need any
other information, contact Marc Poulin.

The archive is maintained by Rodney Peck (Peck@radc-
multics.arpa) and Marc Poulin (Pou...@radc-multics.arpa or
Arch...@radc-softvax.arpa).

3.2. LISTSERV

LISTSERV provides access to files for everyone who can
send mail, independent of their location. Note, however,
that intermediate notes have been known to refuse to handle
long messages or have damaged them in transit. LISTSERV
provides a number of features which you can access by send-
ing mail (note) to LISTSERV. Only the barest minimum are
described herein. On Bitnet messages should be sent to your
nearest LISTSERV (the one from which you receive the info-
atari digests). (If your address is not on Bitnet, an
address for file servers is given below.) All mail sent to
LISTSERV contains command lines. LISTSERV will respond by
return mail. No subject is necessary in such mail. For
more information send the command

INFO


3.2.1. List Names

The list_name for 16-bit Ataris is INFO-A16. The
list_name for 8-bit Ataris is INFO-A8. These list names are
used by Bitnet addressees for subscribing and unsubscribing

December 25, 1987

- 3 -


and by everyone for obtaining back copies of news digests.
The list_names for programs stored in the archives are
PROG-A16 and PROG-A8.

3.2.2. (Un)Subscribing

If you are on Bitnet you may add or remove yourself
from the distribution list. It would greatly convenience
the moderators if you would do so when you no longer wish to
receive digests.

The command to join the list is

SUBSCRIBE list_name User_name

The command to remove yourself from the list is

UNSUBSCRIBE list_name


It would be most convenient if users took care of their
own subscribing and unsubscribing, but messages to INFO-
ATARI-REQUEST{8,16}@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU will still be
accepted.

3.2.3. Accessing Program & Digest Archives

All digests are in the archives. There is a separate
program library. You can obtain copies of files from LIST-
SERV by sending a message in the specified format.

If you are on ARPAnet (or gatewayed to it), your mail
concerning 16-bit Atari information should be addressed to

LISTSERV%CANADA0...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

Mail concerning 8-bit Atari information should be addressed
to

LISTSERV%TCSVM....@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU

To obtain a list of files in the file server, the com-
mand is

INDEX list_name

The command to obtain a specific file is

GET list_name file_name

for example,

GET INFO-A16 87-00076


December 25, 1987

- 4 -


If you want to learn more, send the message

HELP

The moderator of the 8-bit program library is John R.
Dunning. This library is not yet available for use, and
further information will be posted to both newsgroups as it
becomes available.


3.2.4. LISTSERV Moderators

The person to contact if you are having problems
(un)subscribing is Harry Williams (ha...@marist.bitnet).
The moderator of the 16-bit digest archives is Peter
Jasper-Fayer (sof...@uoguelph.bitnet). The moderator of the
16-bit program archives is Richard Werezak
(car...@mcmaster.bitnet). The moderator of the 8-bit
archives is John Voigt (sys...@tcsvm.bitnet). The modera-
tor of the 8-bit program archives is Arnold de Leon
(ade...@hmcvax.bitnet).

3.2.5. Information Concerning 16-bit Archive Organization

The digests are numbered sequentially as they come in.
Sometimes the files arrive here out of order, or with miss-
ing ones, or with extra ones or with mail from BITNET users
requesting information. Often the moderator has to logon to
LISTSERV and re-name the files according to the "Subject:"
line within it. Those "Subject:" lines are what end up in
the indexes (in both "-A16" lists)

The program files are largely extracts from the digests
(INFO-A16). As far as possible, they are numbered the same
as the digests they came from. Other programs were inserted
somewhere in the list. The numbers of these "inserted"
files were selected so that they would appear in the index
at about the correct CHRONOLOGICAL sequence. If no programs
were included in the digests, and no contributions were
received, then those spaces in the index numbers were left
blank.

3.2.6. Supplemental information for BITNET users

Bitnet sites normally cannot make a connection to an
internet site (such as Score) and FTP files over, so you do
not have direct access to the archives on radc-softvax.arpa
from your BITNET site. However, BITNET has some sites with
all the good stuff, so you can get files from there. The
LISTSERV's at CANADA01 and FINHUTC have old digests, and the
ATARINET server at Univ of Houston has most of the best pro-
grams. You can get to the LISTSERVs by saying

TELL LISTSERV AT FINHUTC GET ATARI FILELIST

December 25, 1987

- 5 -


or

TELL LISTSERV AT CANADA01 GET ATARI FILELIST

to get a list of files. To get a specific file if you
know it's name, you can say

TELL LISTSERV AT <HOSTNAME> GET <FILENAME> <FILETYPE>

To get stuff from the Univ of Houston server, you can
say

TELL UH-INFO AT UHUPVM1 ATARINET HELP

or

TELL UH-INFO AT UHUPVM1 ATARINET INDEX

for further instructions. After you know a file's
name, you can get it by saying

TELL UH-INFO AT UHUPVM1 ATARINET SEND <FILENAME> <FILETYPE>

December 25, 1987

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 20:27:08 GMT
From: lakesys!ri...@csd1.milw.wisc.edu (Rich Dankert)
Subject: Re: WordPerfect on ST
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <21...@cup.portal.com> RJk...@cup.portal.com writes:
>Hey everyone! I'm looking for someone who has (or has used) WordPefect on
>the Atari-ST. I'm thinking of buying this software!
>
>I would be interested in the following:
>
>1. How much faster (if any) is it than WordWriter-ST?

It's faster, and scrolls much better.

>
>2. Is the spelling checker better than WordWriter-ST or Thunder?

Better isn't the word, you gotta see this thing!

>
>3. Is the GEM interface good?

The GEM interface is very good, but due to space limitations
not *all commands are available via Drop Down Menus

>
>4. Are there Keyboard Equavilents to the Mouse/Gem commands?

Yes there are..

>
>5. Any other opinions or comments RE: Wordproccesing on the ATARI-ST
>
Contrary to all the comments from user's of Word Perfect in the
negative aspect, I can say that the version I got didn't have all the
bugs that I had seen mentioned. In fact Word Perfect Corp. is
one of the best software makers that I know of. If you OWN the
program, and have a problem with it, and they have a newer version
of it, they will send it to you, second day air sometimes.

This is one software maker that really backs their product!


>
>Thanks a bunch, and MERRY CHRISTMASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

M E R R Y C H R I S T M A S S and a H A P P Y N E W Y E A R
to you also.

>
>
>Richard...RJknees@cup.portal.com


UUCP: {Ihnp4,uwvax}!uwmcsd1!lakesys!rich
Discalimer: The words,ideas,and expressions are my own, and not nessasarily
always correct, and NO I am not affiliated with Word Perfect Corp. I just
like there product.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 19:45:48 GMT
From: lakesys!ri...@csd1.milw.wisc.edu (Rich Dankert)
Subject: Re: Failing Disk Drive & Strange TPA pointer
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <16...@brahma.cs.hw.ac.uk> ne...@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes:
>
>Boo hoo the disk drive on my 1040ST is not working. I know it is the drive
>because I have swapped it in other machines and the problem moved with the
>drive. The symptoms are strange in that it reads every track on a disk fine
>but has trouble writing. I say trouble because sometime it formats a track
>ok sometimes not, but never a whole disk. I had a look at a track it had tried
>to format and found corruption (gap bytes inconsistant & data damaged ie $E5
>corrupted.) If I can't fix this drive I will have to buy a replacement and
>that will kill my slim chance of being able to afford a hard drive.
>I phoned a company that upgrades the internal SS drive in a 520STFM to DS and
>asked if the same drive could be fitted inside a 1040. They said no, which I
>think is pretty strange since I thought (as most do) that the 520STFM was
>just a 1040 with a lesser drive and some RAM missing. Has anyone else put a
>different drive in their 1040 or repaired the original one?
>If so please advise me.
>(Note: Our machines will be down(ish) from 24th Dec to Jan 5th)

I have replaced the 1040 drives with the newer mech's that are
currently shipped as external drives. Have had no problem with doing this
at all.

If I were you, I would clean the head with Freon TF, and get all the
dust that usually seems to collect inside the drive. This is the main problem
that I have seen in the internal drives, other than the eairly drives having
the write protect to go out, in which case I replaced it with a small micro
toggle switch.

I have seen drives that were running slow, and still read the data
onthe disk fine, but didn't write for ^%$#*( . Also have seen some drives
that didn't write well either and the cause was due to a mechanical problem
with a lever mounted for upper head pressure. Problem was due to this lever
being a little loose and thus making alot of noise (like ball bearings inside)
and just getting this a little tighter lessened the vibrations allowing the
drive to again work well.

One other thing that I noticed was that some drives, lost the
ability to turn the disk at proper speed *if the drive was sitting in the
correct position. When I went and turned the drive over (upside down) to
further look at the problem, the problem was gone! Turn the drive back over
and the problem returned, turn it upside down, and the drive worked fine
again. Weird problem. Unfortunatly, the direct drive motor for turning the
media is not available from Atari, so a new drive was installed. One of the
newer external ones. Problem solved....

>
> Neil Forsyth JANET: ne...@uk.ac.hw.cs
> Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: ne...@cs.hw.ac.uk
> Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil
> Edinburgh
> Scotland
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UUCP: {Ihnp4,uwvax}!uwmcsd1!lakesys!rich
Discalimer: The words,ideas,and expressions are my own, and not nessasarily
always correct, but I wouldn't say that I have done it if I didn't.

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Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #6
To: PET...@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, January 6, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 6

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
Re: A different view on multitasking.
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
Re: CP/M Z80 Emulator
Re: drivers for new printers
Re: BMS controller package
Re: Hard disk boot???


Re: Atari's Marketing Approach

spectrum 512, MWC, BDT MT C-shell, Alpaha Mega Disk(?)
MarsPort Help
Text -> Speech Programs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 09:30:50 GMT
From: ucsdhub!hp-sdd!ncr-sd!crash!gryphon!pnet02!sba...@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (Scott
Bauer)


Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

One point that has been a bit overlooked by the Desk Accessory/Pop-Up Utility
crowd -- why be forced to "make do" with the limitations that a Desk Accessory
imposes? NOT to suggest that the Desk Accessory are not useful, or that the
programming done by their authors is somehow lacking; what I DO mean is that
in a multi-tasking environment I have my CHOICE of any number of full featured
programs, all of which run together (within the limits of my systems
resources, of course.) So I can use the same word processor and outline
processor and spreadsheet and etc. that I always use, rather than one that can
run as a Desk Accessory (and thus is used mainly for just that reason.)

Scott Bauer
-----------
UUCP: {ihnp4!crash, hplabs!hp-sdd!crash}!gryphon!pnet02!sbauer
INET: sba...@pnet02.CTS.COM

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 19:13:57 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!lha...@uunet.uu.net (Leonard Harris)
Subject: Re: A different view on multitasking.
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

When I started working as an advisor at UofT, TSO was the main system besides
batch card jobs through JCL. Back then if you mentioned a Micro, you were laued
at and told they could never do what a BIG machine could do. Too bad I have
to use unix on a this SUN toy now instead of a 370 !!
Whats this have to do with multi-tasking? I'm not sure but the whole argument
seems kinda stupid. Buy what you want. I have an atari for games and an IBM
for programming and cad work. It would be really nice to have a multitasking
Sun 3 but I can get by on less. If multitasking would force(?) programmers
to produce better code then I'm all for it !

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 16:55:39 GMT
From: ems!nis!stag!t...@UMN-CS.ARPA ( Todd Burkey )


Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <79...@e.ms.uky.edu> da...@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- Resident E-mail
Hack) writes:
>In article <81...@prls.UUCP> gar...@prls.UUCP (Robert Gardner) writes:
>>I'm still waiting to see if someone can come up with a use for TRUE
>>multitasking that a typical home user would find very handy but that
>>cannot be satisfied by a simple 'carousel' approach. There probably
>>are some, especially with message-passing, etc., but none have been
>>posted yet (except for people waiting for their compilers to finish --
>>they just need faster integrated compilers, though :)

Agreed...even my worst case program (hdscan) takes less than a minute
to compile, so I rarely even have the urge to pop it into the
background...

> ... And yes, I know that background print spooler gadgets can
>run on single task DOS's ... I've seen 'em in CP/M, RT-11, Mess-DOS,
>and many many others. But I've never been convinced that they
>ever ran cleanly.

???Why not??? I have less trouble with the automatic print spoolers on
my PC clone and ST than I do on the Unix boxes at work. I can
prioritize jobs, edit stuff in the queue, etc on the ST version, but
those hacks are mostly fluff and rarely used...besides, I have seen
those handy little standalone print spoolers going for under $50
nowadays, so that may be a better solution in the long run...

>I'm thinking ahead some time into the future when we'll have
>ISDN running everywhere ... In order to handle network communications
>cleanly we'll need to have multi-tasking.

Umm, by the time we have ISDN running everywhere, our current
computers will probably be dust. By then, most of us will probably be
running some variant of Unix on our machines if we want to properly
utilize ISDN (i.e. we will have BIG drives, some form of USENET access
..which I can't quite picture even two years from now, since we are
running about 28MBytes of messages/week now..., very high speed
modems, etc.)

>[There are] also things like mail daemons
>and such that recieve e-mail while you're asleep (or away
>or whatever).

UUPC seems to work fine on the ST and I have several STadel (ST
citadel) boards that poll my Unix box every couple of hours for uucp
mail and the comp.sys.atari.st sections. I am sure there are a lot of
Amiga systems doing the same (I recall that UUPC came out for the
Amiga and Citadel is also running on the Amiga).

>For right now? Well, how about killing run-away processes?

On the ST OS-9 or the Multi-tasking C shell has the standard ability
to do this...And on the Amiga or the ST, you can always hit reset to
kill everything, but still keep the things that were out on RAM
drives...(I used this feature a lot on both the Amiga and the ST in
the early days of using C compilers that were released too soon.)

I agree somewhat with Dave Meile on this discussion/argument. In the
long run, the average user of a popular computer is not the 'BBS'-type
or a person that needs anything more than a few utilities in the
form of desk accessories on top of an application. Unfortunately, the
IBM PC and the Mac have gained the 'average' user market, to date.
Those of us with Amiga's and Atari ST's are either technical enough to
appreciate and use the special features of the respective computer, or
we had very, very persuasive friends who convinced us that the
Amiga/ST was the best computer. The 'average' user is still the person
that just buys a Mac or PC for a very specific purpose (usually for
writing memos or doing spreadsheets in a business environment). They
may run Lightning/Thunder (real time spelling checkers on the PC/ST)
in a pseudo background manner, and have a ton of desk accessories or
pop up tools, but they rarely go in for the increased complexity that
a multi-tasking environment like DesqView offers on the PC. Even the
carrousel approach (there, I just multi-tasked and asked my wife for
a spelling check...it can also be spelled carousel) is somewhat
confusing to people, but I have seen secretaries fall in love with the
carrousel programs on the Mac and the ST...although not on the PC version
for some reason.

-Todd Burkey
t...@stag.UUCP

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 06:55:05 GMT
From: ems!nis!stag!t...@umn-cs.arpa ( Todd Burkey )
Subject: Re: CP/M Z80 Emulator
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <1...@mccc.UUCP> p...@mccc.UUCP (Peter J. Holsberg) writes:
>I'm looking for a CP/M - Z80 emulator that will run on a 680x0-based
>computer. Please email if you know of such a beast. Thx.

There is a very nice PD one for the ST...If I remember right, the docs
for it seemed to indicate that the original 'port' source would work
on any 68000 computer (it has been over a year since I played with
it, so the name of the company that wrote it escapes me). Atari did
put this out as a PD disk, so maybe Neil can help? If not, I'm sure
you could get the disk from your local Atari club...

I recall getting about 1.5MHz to 3Mz throughput on most of the
programs I had from the ATR8000 days...things like Perfect Writer,
Wordstar, Turbo Pascal, etc all worked fine. I even used some of my
wifes software that I copied over from her Geneva portable and it
ran fine (but emulating a 80 char by 8 line display).

-Todd Burkey
t...@stag.UUCP

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 06:43:29 GMT
From: phri!dasys1!mz...@nyu.edu (Martin Zyla)
Subject: Re: drivers for new printers
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <21...@cup.portal.com> Randy_Captain...@cup.portal.com
writes:
>I just got an NEC Pinwriter P2200 for $400, and I think it's a killer little
>printer. I did have some fun trying to track down a utility that could do a
>good screen dump (ALT-HELP) but I did find one on GEnie (Delphi?) that works
>well when you tell the driver it's a P7. (and the P2200 allows you to kill the
>tractor feed to, for single-sheet feeding. Nice touch.)
>
>Randy Holcomb - Contributing Editor/Computer Shopper

I'm glad to see that someone else has discovered this gem of a machine. Around
this neck of the woods (New York) it seems to be selling well and users marvel
at the power, quality and accessories of a printer that sells for a relatively
meager $350 to $400. I've used several drivers and wound up with a variety of
screen dump sizes but all high quality. Speaking of high quality, if you're
into Desktop Publishing this machine will make you think twice about spending
all that money on a laser printer.

I\ /I ____________________________________
Martin Zyla I \/ I /
Big Electric Cat I I / {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri!dasys1!mzyla
New York, NY, USA I I / {bellcore,cmcl2}!cucard!dasys1!mzyla
I I / GEnie:mzyla DELPHI:gmz CIS:74216,1372

------------------------------

Date: 26 Dec 87 03:23:43 GMT
From: ra...@cs.duke.edu (Ravi Subrahmanyan)


Subject: Re: BMS controller package
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

>] I have the BMS controller. It works fine (once we found the bugs but


>] that was almost a year ago). ...
>
>What were the bugs?
>If I were to buy such a board, I would probably *never* find the bugs.
>

I've been using that package for a year, and the only bug I've
encountered was in the clock setting software, which would cause the
clock to freak in February.. it was quite amusing actually, and it
was fixed immediately (Chris would actually tell you the location to
patch in the executable if you didnt want to wait for him to send you
a new disk). No other bugs as far as I know,

-ravi

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 17:54:21 GMT
From: nuchat!uhnix1!uhnix2!ua...@uunet.uu.net (Michael B. Vederman)


Subject: Re: Hard disk boot???
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

The problem you have with holding down the alt-ctrl-shift may have to do with
WHEN you hold down the keys. If you bootup with! the keys down, then it will
not work with the new ROMs.
Try turning on the machine (or resetting) wait a second, then hold down the
keys. This should work.
Don't use GEMBOOT with th[e new ROMs, use foldrxxx.prg instead.

Also, I had the same[ problem with the message about a non-supported ROM
version. Ignore the message, the driver is actually installed, and works
just fine.

- Mike
--
#-----------------------------------------------------# University (of Houston)
# It is morally wrong to let a sucker keep his money. # Atari Computer
#-----------------------------------------------------# Enthusiasts (UACE)
Use Atarinet: for help, interactively send a message to UH-INFO@UHUPVM1

------------------------------

Date: 24 Dec 87 18:23:44 GMT
From: nuchat!uhnix1!uhnix2!ua...@uunet.uu.net (Michael B. Vederman)


Subject: Re: Atari's Marketing Approach
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Okay, how can you change Atari's image? Does it matter? Sure, more advertise-
ments would be nice, but what benefit do we, the curreniet owners of STs derive
from that? Perhaps it would be a boost to our own egos having more commmercials
on TV. I mean who wants to own a machine that doesn't receive alot of press?
In actuality, I doubt that more TV advertising would do too much good, other
than allowing us to say "I saw the ad five times in one hour," or "Did you
see the ads last night?"

Ask yourself this - how many other computer companies make game machines?
Answer - NONE!
Not Apple, not IBM, not Commodore, no one.
Therefore, Atari is stuck, because they do currently sell game machines.

This is not neccessarily bad, but more advertising, I beleive will only give
us current owners a shot in the arm. Remembere, actions speak louder than
words, and no advertising can boost sales if you don't have an exciting line
of products to sell, and new products on the way. If Atari can produce, then
they zwill be successful. The ABAQ is exciting, but may come out too late to
'steal' the show. Is it important for Atari to come out with products first?
For us owners, we certainly would take a lot of pride in the company if we
were owners of a$ computer from a company that was 'on the leading edge' and
delivered prroducts before anyone else, but what real benefit do we get from
that other than feeding our egos.
So, before you go complaing to Neil, ask who will really benefit. Is this
'commercial wars.' Are we feeling left out? We have a good machine that is
exactl[y what we paid for. What more do you want?

Flame me at this address, if you want. I just get tired of complaining about
immaterial things. If you wanna complain, complain about how GEM is a closed
operating system that must be hacked at to figure out (that's GEM, not TOS).

My opinions are my own, and do not neccessarily reflect our users' group,
company, university, or any living being.

- Mike

--
#-----------------------------------------------------# University (of Houston)
# It is morally wrong to let a sucker keep his money. # Atari Computer
#-----------------------------------------------------# Enthusiasts (UACE)
Use Atarinet: for help, interactively send a message to UH-INFO@UHUPVM1

------------------------------

Date: 25 Dec 87 00:18:00 GMT
From: linus!philabs!sbcs!nyit!br...@husc6.harvard.edu (Bryan Althaus)
Subject: spectrum 512, MWC, BDT MT C-shell, Alpaha Mega Disk(?)
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

I only had my 1040ST for a week before the drive went and I'm still
waiting for it to come back so in the meantime I thought I'd ask a few
questions.

I've been reading about Spectrum 512 in Antics START magazine and was wondering
if anyone has disassembled the code and found out how they put 48 colors per
scan line? Does this code work for putting more colors per scan line
in medium rez? Also could anyone out there who owns Spectrum 512 tell me how
like/dislike this product?

I plan on buying it just for the feature of 512 colors but I was just wondering
how good a paint program this is compared to Degas & NeoChrome.

About how they do it, Spectrum owns the rights to Spectrum 512 not the ability
to put 48 colors per scan line. I feel Spectrum has done something that I
didn't think was possible and they deserve all the customers they can get, it's
just that I hope the how's and why's of the scan line trick become public
knowledge, for a person shouldn't have to buy the program just to be able to
have 48 colors per scan line on their ST's.

I'm currently using Mark Williams C with Beckemeyers MT C-shell and together
they make a pretty powerful programming environment. I was wondering if anyone
knows how much temp space both programs use? I set a ramdisk up and put the
most used commands from MT C-shell into it (ls, cd etc.) and was wondering how
much bigger I should make the ramdisk to hold the /tmp area which MWC & BDT
MT C-shell use for temporary storage.

Also while talking about ramdisks has anyone bought the Mega disk(?) by Alpha.
It's suppose to be a 1 meg. ram cartridge which plugs into the cartrige port
on the Atari and gives you the ability to have an 800k ramdisk + 200k printer
spooler or two 400k ramdisks and the printer spooler. Also included for $299 is
a power supply so that after you turn your computer off your data is still
intact, sort of like a mini Hard Drive. For the price it sounds good, if
anyone has bought one could you tell me how you like it and also how could
I get MT C-shell to recognize the 200k printer spooler?


Thanks in advance

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to all

Bryan Althaus
N.Y.I.T. - Computer Graphics Laboratory
UUCP: ...!philabs!nyit!bryan (br...@nyit.UUCP)

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 87 00:32:43 GMT
From: munnari!natmlab!tasis!pa...@uunet.uu.net (Paul Stevenson)
Subject: MarsPort Help
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

"I'm the sentry
5 pairs for entry..."

OK - can anyone tell me how to get through the door?

thanks in advance.
Paul Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: 22 Dec 87 01:50:38 GMT
From: munnari!natmlab!basser!metro!pta!teti!nswitgould!to...@uunet.uu.net (Tony
McGrath)
Subject: Text -> Speech Programs
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

I am making this inquiry on behalf of a partially sighted person
who has recently purchased an Atari ST.

What he is looking for is a Text -> Speech conversion program that
would allow him to hear the contents of a text file. I know that there
is a simple speech program available called ST-TALK that performs this
function, but only on text typed from the keyboard.

Does anybody know of a similar program that could read a file of text
and then speak it back? Are there sources available for the aforementioned
ST-TALK that might be modified to make it work on text files?

Please reply to me by mail, unless, of course, you think it is important
enough to post.

Tony McGrath
to...@nswitgould.OZ

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Reply-To: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.edu
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From: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.EDU

Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #7
To: PET...@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, January 6, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 7

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

How advertising helps already-owners
ST Drive Change?
Re: Reasons for buying a computer (was Colorburst)
Re: How advertising helps already-owners
Reasons for buying a computer (was Colorburst)
Atari ST motherboards
big arrays in MW C
eproms burners
Help
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Dec 87 14:13:13 GMT


From: denb...@bbn.com (Steven Den Beste)

Subject: How advertising helps already-owners
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Michael Vederman (ua...@uhnix2.UUCP) asks:

> Okay, how can you change Atari's image? Does it matter? Sure,

> more advertisements would be nice, but what benefit do we, the curreniet


> owners of STs derive from that?


The rationale goes as follows:

If the advertising is effective, more ST's will be sold, and the installed base
will get bigger. This will attract more third party software vendors, who will
write more software for the system, which means a better and wider availability
of software for those who already owned the machine when the advertising began.

Clear?

--
Steven C. Den Beste, Bolt Beranek & Newman, Cambridge MA
denb...@bbn.com(ARPA/CSNET/UUCP) harvard!bbn.com!denbeste(UUCP)
I don't think BBN cares what I think about this stuff.
And that's probably just as well.

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 87 02:36:03 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!BigDi...@uunet.uu.net
Subject: ST Drive Change?
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Does anyone know if you can take out the single-sided drive in the SF354 drive
and slip in a double-sided drive without any problems?

Thanks in advance.............................Hank
(BigDi...@cup.portal.com)

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 87 10:45:49 GMT
From: pepper!cmcm...@sun.com (Chuck McManis)
Subject: Re: Reasons for buying a computer (was Colorburst)
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <58...@jhunix.UUCP> ins_...@jhunix.UUCP (Norman Yarvin) writes:
:>In article <36...@sun.uucp> cmcm...@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes a lot
:>of good suggestions about buying a computer. I can't understand this though:
:>
:>>* Don't buy a computer to learn programming. If you ever want to program
:>> a computer you own, learn programming *first*. Then you will know when
:>> the programming environment a computer offers is usable.
:>
:>How is someone going to learn programming without a computer? Granted,
:>Usenet people must have access to at least one. But the world at large does
:>not. Don't tell me you are going to just sit there and read a book; very
:>few have that much willpower. And even if someone did, would he/she learn
:>anything about which computer to buy? Very little, probably.

I suggest that if you want to learn programming you take a class at a
community college or through some other program where they provide the
computer. The reason being that the things that make a computer easy
to program, and the programs that make a computer useful may be a
disjoint set. Have you ever programmed on a ZX81? Not much fun. Or
maybe you buy a commodore 64 to learn programming, and then find out
that you really want to program in C and no one makes a C compiler for
it. Maybe COBOL is your idea of fun, that wipes out the Atari and Amiga
right there. But the biggest danger is that you may discover you can't
program, or hate to program and now you have this essentially worthless
computer (remember the condition was that you bought it to learn programming).
I know a lot of people who have bought computers, the ones that took a
programming class were a lot happier. You learn a lot about computers
when you take a programming class. It gives you an edge, I heard about
a guy that bought a computer to program on that had only a line oriented
editor because the salesman had convinced him that editors that supported
editing on a "hard copy" terminal were more powerful than screen editors.


--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcm...@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 87 07:40:47 GMT
From: lakesys!ri...@csd1.milw.wisc.edu (Rich Dankert)
Subject: Re: How advertising helps already-owners
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <56...@cc5.bbn.COM> denb...@bbn.COM (Steven Den Beste) writes:
>
>The rationale goes as follows:
>
>If the advertising is effective, more ST's will be sold, and the installed base
>will get bigger. This will attract more third party software vendors, who will
>write more software for the system, which means a better and wider availability
>of software for those who already owned the machine when the advertising began.
>
>Clear?


>
>--
>Steven C. Den Beste, Bolt Beranek & Newman, Cambridge MA
>denb...@bbn.com(ARPA/CSNET/UUCP) harvard!bbn.com!denbeste(UUCP)
> I don't think BBN cares what I think about this stuff.
> And that's probably just as well.

I can see your rational to a point, though I believe that your over
looking one main point.

Atari is looking to get away from the GAME MACHINE image. I think
that this is an excellent idea. BUT,Right now, I hear more people talking to
other's to look at the machine and they refuse to look past the Game Machine
Image that is still attached to the name.

Increasing the user base is a great idea, but remember that most that
do check out the system, are pretty new to computer's for the most part.They
really don't know whats out there for third party software, and when they
do, they see alot of games made for the machine. They also see alot of
owner's talking about the neat games that they have, but when it comes to
what application software is available, well thats where were short. Sure
games are fun, and show off the power of the machine, but all this power has to
be put to better use!

What I am getting at is third party software parties like
Word Perfect Corp., Monogram, and other's to get their software over to the
ST and do it right! I'm not really all that choked up about the third party
software houses that simply port their stuff over, and it runs like it would
on a PC. I would like to see software that really flys, and takes full
advantage of the machine. To date their are but a handfull of such programs
and for the most part these companies have not seen fit to back up their
product with the supprt that is really needed. Word Perfect has been the
real exception.

Lets face it. Atari owner's *know what the machine is capable of, and
with this knowledge, the demand the software to work correctly, and if it
does not, the CO. should make a revision. This is not the case for the most
part. Sure there are alot of packages out there that do perform quite well,
but still don't make full use of the power that is available. Two markets
that suffer quite a bit are the Business and Educational areas. These have
been been improving, but were a long way off to where we should be, and where
Atari would like it to be (my opinion of course).

I for one, like the idea of Atari buying Federated, and the work
being done with the Abaq box. Excellent ways to increase performence, but
it still has to be sold to the general public. Business in particular.

Ways for getting the point across.

I would start getting more software out that would 'DO THE JOB'
and have my name placed on it (Atari name). Of course the software would have
to work to perfection as advertised. Who else better than Atari to make a
software product that does the job? They designed the machine, and know it
better than anyone else. The software that they have produced, has been
outstanding, and proves that fact. (Lets not get into Atari Basic though!)
along with the machine, offer software that would help intice the MS-DOS
brainwashed people to see the Atari as a viable alternative.

Case in point.

We bought DAK easy accounting from DAK for our business. The program
was written in basic, then compiled. Thats not the real problem. The program
was really un-supported. The bugs were not fixed, and when the CO. had to
face the fact, they come up with deciding not to support the product, and
then comming out with version two, state that there is no market for
business software for the machine, thus not making the version two
available for the ST. Then you get the software emulator, and version two, and
the program runs so slow, that for all intence and purposes, is really not
usable. Especially when you seen version one (buggy as it is) run as fast
as it did, would make anyone cry. If Atari produced this product, the
purchaser's would know that the product would be supported, and any bugs
(if any) would be corrected.

I stand in the wings that Atari should produce some productivity
software for the machine. What they have produced is great, but what is
really missing is the business and educational software to act as a magnet
to draw more to the power of this fabulous machine.

-rich

UUCP: {Ihnp4,uwvax}!uwmcsd1!lakesys!rich
Discalimer: The words,ideas,and expressions are my own, and not nessasarily

always correct, but they are mine, and can be yours too, if you want them!

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 87 03:18:54 GMT
From: aplcen!jhunix!ins_...@mimsy.umd.edu (Norman Yarvin)
Subject: Reasons for buying a computer (was Colorburst)
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <36...@sun.uucp> cmcm...@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes a lot
of good suggestions about buying a computer. I can't understand this though:

>* Don't buy a computer to learn programming. If you ever want to program
> a computer you own, learn programming *first*. Then you will know when
> the programming environment a computer offers is usable.

How is someone going to learn programming without a computer? Granted,
Usenet people must have access to at least one. But the world at large does
not. Don't tell me you are going to just sit there and read a book; very
few have that much willpower. And even if someone did, would he/she learn
anything about which computer to buy? Very little, probably.

Norman Yarvin
(seismo!umcp-cs : ihnp4!whuxcc : allegra!hopkins) !jhunix!ins_anmy

"I can't really represent the size of the sun,
but this should give you a good idea."

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 87 02:15:08 GMT
From: oliveb!olivej!dra...@ames.arpa (Give me a quarter or I'll touch you)
Subject: Atari ST motherboards
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu


Does anyone know if the deal where one sends in their Atari 520ST to Atari
and gets a new one back is still good? I remember the price as being
around $95 or so. What are the catches to this? Can it be done through a
dealer or only through Atari? Thanks for any information!

--Dean


----
Dean Brunette {ucbvax,etc.}!hplabs!oliveb!olivej!dragon
{ucbvax,etc.}!hplabs!oliveb!dragon-oatc!dean

Olivetti Advanced Technology Center _____ _____ __:__ _____
20300 Stevens Creek Blvd. : : _____: : :

------------------------------

Date: 26 Dec 87 04:24:08 GMT
From: dayton!ems!nis!stag!t...@rutgers.edu ( Todd Burkey )
Subject: big arrays in MW C
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Hi,
Does anyone know if MWC will safely handle large arrays now? I know
that I had problems in the early versions with HDSCAN's arrays in that
I had to keep the total amount of data in a particular array less than
32K bytes. Now when I compile tests (i.e. a char[10000][12]), I get a
message like:
strict: size of array overflows size_t
which doesn't make sense, since size_t is a long if I remember correctly.
Somewhat confusing (and frustrating now that my manual is out of phase with
the newer version of the compiler that I got recently.)

What I really want to do is fold my Unix version of HDSCAN back into the
ST version, and preferably with MW C. If it looks like it will be too much
of a mess, I will probably wait for the new version of Megamax, since that
sounds somewhat promising as well. (Yes, the Unix version is done...I
am mailing the source code to comp.sources.misc next week. Supports both
BSD and SYSV flavors of Unix).

-Thanks,
Todd Burkey
t...@stag.UUCP

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 87 19:50:10 GMT
From: kap%psueclb...@psuvm.bitnet
Subject: eproms burners
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

hi

I hate to interupt this fasinating discussion on multi-tasking but
I need to find an eprom burner to use with the ST. I thought hippo
made one but I can't find any information. Does anyone have or used one
with the ST, any comments.

thanks
jim, on a friends account

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 03:56:52 GMT
From: pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!d...@cad.Berkeley.EDU (Duy Le)
Subject: Help
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Hi, I want to create a folder with autocopy but don't know how. Would
someone please tell me how to? Thanks


Duy

------------------------------

Date: 27 Dec 87 14:56:19 GMT
From: ucsdhub!jack!crash!pnet01!hai...@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (Wade Bickel)


Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

I still have not heard one counter argument against the value
that multi-tasking has as a tool for the programmer to use to
write better programs. Perhaps the user does not see this as
multi-tasking, but benfits from it none the less. After all,
this is a powerful tool and we programmers can use it to make
what would otherwise be a difficult task an easy one. This
this translates to less expensive or more feature full programs.

I have never said that multi-tasking was "essential". However,
it is a VERY powerfull and usefull tool for both the software
developer and the user alike. And you need not use it if it is
too much for you.

As far as this OS/9 buisness goes, if it were being distributed
free then it might mean something, but from what's been said it
will be held by only a small fraction of the ST users due to its
price. Thus programmers will not be able to consider the bulk of
the ST market when depending on OS/9, and will not be likely to
do so. So much easier when its included with the basic system!


Thanks, Happy New Year,


Wade.


UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex
ARPA: crash!pnet01!hai...@nosc.mil
INET: hai...@pnet01.CTS.COM

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 07:40:26 GMT
From: mtune!codas!killer!e...@rutgers.edu (Eric Green)


Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

in article <32...@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu>, dav...@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu (Dave Meile)
says:
> People want computers (when they want them at all) to DO SOMETHING for
> them. In the majority of cases with the Atari ST and the Amiga, that
> "something" has been:
>
> writing stuff
> filing stuff
> retrieving stuff that's been filed
> playing games
> programming all of the above
>
> Most of those who read these forums fall under the "programming" category.
> Of course, for programmers, multitasking can be a delight. For the person
> who is writing a term paper on the microcomputer, why bother? If you have
> access to two programs (ala Multifinder or perhaps through a "desk
> accessory" [IBM PCs have desk accessories too, folks]) you already have
> as much power as you're ever liable to need in most environments.

Let's face it, even a Timex Sinclair with 16K of RAM can do all of the above
(just a bit slow and limited). A boat-anchor CP/M system can also do all of
the above, and would be cheaper (nowadays) besides. But I sure the hell
don't like to use one after I've used BSD4.2 & other OS's that take advantage
of multitasking.

For example, take the term paper. I'm using an 8-bit single-tasking system
right now. I set it to printing. Then I go away for 20 minutes while my NX-10
bangs away in near letter quality mode (more "near" than "letter", but that's
the breaks!). That irritates me. Greatly. There's a couple of things I could
do here: Use my RAM-disk and jam a software interrupt-driven spooler on my
LST: device (multitasking!), go out and buy a 512K print spooler (multitasking
again, although in this case with a dedicated processor), or any other number
of things. All of which are multitasking. All of which are a kludge, and would
be unnecessary if real multitasking was available.

I remember my first computer. 5K of RAM, 16K of ROM, I was in hawg heaven, a
computer all my own, to hack in 6502 assembly language on. I lusted for 16K,
because with 16K, you can do anything, right? 64K? forget it, 64K was for rich
folks with $2,000 to buy the latest CP/M boat-anchor (so-called because of its
size and weight, in this case :-). Disk drives? Why would anybody want disk
drives? I can load and save just fine with my cassette recorder!

Then I moved up to a 64K machine with a disk drive. Wow. Big time now. I'll
never take that 5K machine out of the closet again (even tho I expanded it to
16K). After all, it's just an obsolete toy now, right? and 64K... I can do
ANYTHING! Wow, what power. Why would I want one of them fancy dandy 68000
machines, 'specially when they all cost $5,000 for 256K of RAM, and I can do
everything they can, on my li'l min-anchor? I mean, I can process words, I can
write programs, I can play games... they do all that, right?


There's 2 points I wish to make:
1) Some features added to the computer make it more productive and easier
to use (compare cassette deck to floppy drive to hard drive!).
2) Most of us are notoriously short on foresight, like I was when I
thought that 64K and a floppy drive was the epitomy of computing (after all, I
can do everything you can, right? I can process words, play games, etc.?).

While you may not see the use of multitasking, I bet you're as foresighted
now as I was 10 years ago when I thought that 16K of RAM was big-time for a
microcomputer.

--
Eric Lee Green e...@usl.CSNET Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191
{cbosgd,ihnp4}!killer!elg Lafayette, LA 70509
"There's someone in my head, but it's not me...." -PF

------------------------------

Testing Vax Bitnet Connection

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Received: by CANADA01 (Mailer X1.24) id 1753; Thu, 07 Jan 88 13:26:20 EDT
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Reply-To: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: INFO-A16@CANADA01
From: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.EDU

Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #8
To: PET...@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, January 7, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 8

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

Re: ST Drive Change?
DG Terminal Emulators...
Re: BMS controller package
Re: ST software available for children?
VCR -> Atari ST color monitor
Re: Observations
IBM Drives with ST
Re: A defense of Multi-tasking
Re: about ST disk drives (and media change)
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
Re: Hard disk boot???
Re: Hard disk boot???
Re: big arrays in MW C
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 04:44:06 GMT
From: portal!cup.portal.com!Sam_Bria...@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: ST Drive Change?
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Have done it many times myself without encountering any problems. Even swapped
the SS out of my 520STfm for a DS disk mechanism. Works great!

------------------------------

Posted-From: The MITRE Corp., Bedford, MA
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu, info-...@score.stanford.edu
Subject: DG Terminal Emulators...
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 87 17:56:52 EST
From: j...@mitre-bedford.ARPA

KO...@TRIUMFCL.BITNET writes...
>
> Does anyone know of a Terminal Emulator for the Data General
> machines, eg. the D-400 series terminal, for the Atari ST.
>

I'd be interested also in such an emulator that ran on the Atari 8-bitters,
if anyone knows about one!

-John Sangster / j...@mitre-bedford.arpa

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 21:02:00 GMT
From: apollo!web...@eddie.mit.edu (Walt Weber)


Subject: Re: BMS controller package
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <11...@eneevax.UUCP> iar...@eneevax.umd.edu.UUCP (John Iarocci)
writes:
>
>Being the owner of two BMS kits (one for a Micropolis 1325 on a 1040, and one
>for a Seagate ST506 on a 520+), I have seen how Berkley Microsystems has
>improved over the last year or so. I think their present-day package is well
>put together and easy to build. I have only had two reservations about the
>kit: 1) The non-standard format used on the disks, and 2) THAT SHORT CORD!!
>
>Until a recent (fairly) Atari Fest in the area, I was under the impression
>that the BMS kit was the only one out there. At this fair, I was introduced
>to ICD, Inc.

I, too, am a VERY SATISFIED customer of BMS. My opinions of the ICD offering
differ somewhat from yours, however.

I saw ICD's product at the Worcester AtariFest, and while I think they have
an acceptable product, I believe that their methods are less than acceptable.
My local Atari dealer (exclusively Atari for the last 4+ years) tells me that
ICD has been present in the 8-bit marketplace for a considerable time.

My contact at BMS, however, told me that ICD initially contacted BMS with a
great deal of interest in the BMS board, and assured BMS that ICD was not
going to get into that business. A short while later, ICD released a board
which has a strong resemblance to the BMS board with a few modifications.

Note that I am NOT advocating sole-sourcing of add-ons for the ST line -- I just
do NOT like the idea of an "established" company staying out of the ST
marketplace
until (or unless) they can piggyback off of the efforts of a fledgling operation
by
misrepresenting their intentions.

As to your first reservation (above), BMS follows the Atari standard of only
allowing
4 partitions per drive, while Supra established an "extended format" which
permits
8 partitions per drive, but is NOT compatible with Atari's AHDI. ICD follows
the
Supra extended format. I think if you go back to Tom Love's excellent article
in
a back issue of Current Notes you will find that BMS did not have a disk driver
of
their own, and that users would just use Atari's formatter (format.prg?) and
driver (ahdi.prg).

..walt...

--
Walt Weber PHONE: (617) 256-6600 x7004
Apollo Computer GENIE: W.WEBER
Chelmsford, People's Republic of Massachusetts

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 23:37:18 GMT
From: t...@mitre-bedford.arpa (Terry P. Gleason)
Subject: Re: ST software available for children?
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

LOGO isn't bundled with the ST anymore. Is it worth buying? Are
there other better ones available? (My daughter uses LOGO on the Apple
at school.)

Is KIDTALK ($30-$40) a good buy? For what ages is it appropriate?

Thanks for any advice - T. Gleason (tpg@mbunix)

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 00:24:31 GMT
From: en...@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst)
Subject: VCR -> Atari ST color monitor
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

I'm curious, does anyone know of a

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 21:48:26 GMT
From: tektronix!sequent!mntgfx!dcle...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Dave Clemans)
Subject: Re: Observations
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

> I kinda liked the "ST World" that my dealer used to carry, but he
> stopped carrying it a couple of months before he folded. :-(
> Did the newspaper fold too? Or did the go out of business becuase my
> dealer no longer carried them? Or was it the other way around? ;-)

ST World is apparently going fine; in fact they've now split into
two separate newsletters:
ST World mainly reviews and show reports
ST Informer more general articles, rumors, etc.

They're carried by stores in the Oregon area (B. Dalton's Software Etc.
even carries ST World).

However note that they are not published on a regular schedule; as far
as I can tell they wait until they have enough ads and articles to fill
an issue and then go to the printers/distributors.

dgc

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 06:31:10 GMT
From: unirot!jo...@rutgers.edu (josh cohen)
Subject: IBM Drives with ST
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

lineaterlineaterlineaterlineater


Does anyone have the document file on how to hook up an IBM
style drive? I am attempting to do it here. I have a tandon TM100
full height drive. I ripped it out of an old PERCOM setup for the
old ataris. Has anyone done this? I see the tricks that atari is
doing with the drive select line but am not quite sure how to cope
with it.
Somebody help me before I fry my ST....

Josh Cohen
HOOK

ARPA HO...@aim.rutgers.edu
UUCP {...}!rutgers!aim.rutgers.edu!hook
BITNET hook%gold.decnet@zodiac
please me me at the first address.

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 18:08:51 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!water!ljdi...@rutgers.edu (Lee Dickey)
Subject: Re: A defense of Multi-tasking
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <55...@cc5.bbn.COM> denb...@bbn.COM (Steven Den Beste) writes:
:The original poster of this subject asked if there was a place where
:multi-tasking was "essential". ...
: [ a long and thoughtful article here... ]
:
:Could these be the real reasons behind the original posting? Or maybe just a


:deliberate attempt to stir up trouble?

:
:Steven C. Den Beste, Bolt Beranek & Newman, Cambridge MA


:denb...@bbn.com(ARPA/CSNET/UUCP) harvard!bbn.com!denbeste(UUCP)
: I don't think BBN cares what I think about this stuff.
: And that's probably just as well.


Deliberate or not, he certainly did stirr it up!

--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdi...@watmath.UUCP UUCP: ...!uunet!watmath!ljdickey
ljdickey%wa...@waterloo.edu ljdi...@watdcs.BITNET
ljdickey%water%waterlo...@csnet-relay.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 17:49:38 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!water!ljdi...@rutgers.edu (Lee Dickey)
Subject: Re: about ST disk drives (and media change)
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Thank you, Alan, for the informative answer, which raises another question...

In article <9...@atari.UUCP> apr...@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes:
>
>The media-change sensing is done using the write-protect signal from the
>drive. ...
>
>When a disk is in the "maybe changed" state, the next access (through
>RWABS or maybe Floprd) will check the serial number of the disk in the
>drive. If it hasn't changed, then the disk hasn't changed, either.
>This is another assupmtion: you should not have two disks with the same
>serial number.
> ...

What is the "serial number" you mention?
I have seen no mention of it before.
I have noticed something called "disk label" that comes up
when I ask it to "SHOW INFO". Is *that* the "serial number"?

How can I be sure that no two disks have the same serial number?


--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdi...@watmath.UUCP UUCP: ...!uunet!watmath!ljdickey
ljdickey%wa...@waterloo.edu ljdi...@watdcs.BITNET
ljdickey%water%waterlo...@csnet-relay.ARPA

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 07:16:35 GMT
From: marque!gryphon!ric...@csd1.milw.wisc.edu (Richard Sexton)


Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <13...@uhccux.UUCP> l...@uhccux.UUCP (Greg Lee) writes:
>In article <26...@gryphon.CTS.COM> ric...@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton)
writes:

>>In article <32...@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu> dav...@umn-cs.UUCP (Dave Meile) writes:
>
>Mr. Sexton's comments don't bear repeating. It was suggested in another
>news group that he has a net variety of Tourette's syndrome.

Ah yes, but I'm cute and have great legs.

> Would Dave
>Meile and others in comp.sys.arari.st please accept an apology from
>us amiga folks?

Don't apologize for me you nimrod. I have nothing against ST's or their
owners. But Atari people who blather in comp.sys.amiga about how
the amiga's features are "not needed" are fair game.

If you want to flame amiga's, fine. Do it in comp.sys.not.amiga. Do it
in alt.flame. But do it in this group, and you just may get a rebuttel.
Do it four times and people may get testy.

sig missing in newport beach harbour

Richard [kick butt and take names] Sexton

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 14:54:00 GMT
From: cca!mirror!datacube!f...@husc6.harvard.edu


Subject: Re: Hard disk boot???
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

ua...@uhnix2.UUCP writes:
> The problem you have with holding down the alt-ctrl-shift may have to do with
> WHEN you hold down the keys. If you bootup with! the keys down, then it will
> not work with the new ROMs.
> Try turning on the machine (or resetting) wait a second, then hold down the
> keys. This should work.
> Don't use GEMBOOT with th[e new ROMs, use foldrxxx.prg instead.

So, let me see... If there is a disk in the drive at power-on, the Supra
boots *immediately*. If I have the three keys down (diskette in drive),
Supra still boots immedately. Seems like I have to: turn machine on. Wait
about one second. Push the three keys. (Maybe wait for ST to go after the
floppy drive again) Push diskette into drive while holding the keys down.
What a pain! I don't think it'll work, either.

I'm going to call Supra today and ask them if they have a boot program
that is a little less zealous ;-)

> Also, I had the same[ problem with the message about a non-supported ROM
> version. Ignore the message, the driver is actually installed, and works
> just fine.

> - Mike
> --
> #-----------------------------------------------------# University (of
Houston)
> # It is morally wrong to let a sucker keep his money. # Atari Computer
> #-----------------------------------------------------# Enthusiasts (UACE)
> Use Atarinet: for help, interactively send a message to UH-INFO@UHUPVM1

Farrell T. Woods

Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group 4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960
VOICE: 617-535-6644; FAX: (617) 535-5643; TWX: (710) 347-0125
INTERNET: f...@datacube.COM
UUCP: {rutgers, ihnp4, mirror}!datacube!ftw

"OS/2 -- Half an operating system"

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 20:01:00 GMT
From: cca!mirror!datacube!f...@husc6.harvard.edu


Subject: Re: Hard disk boot???
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

This morning, I wrote:

> ua...@uhnix2.UUCP writes:
>> The problem you have with holding down the alt-ctrl-shift may have to do with
>> WHEN you hold down the keys. If you bootup with! the keys down, then it will
>> not work with the new ROMs.
>> Try turning on the machine (or resetting) wait a second, then hold down the
>> keys. This should work.
>> Don't use GEMBOOT with th[e new ROMs, use foldrxxx.prg instead.

> So, let me see... If there is a disk in the drive at power-on, the Supra
> boots *immediately*. If I have the three keys down (diskette in drive),
> Supra still boots immedately. Seems like I have to: turn machine on. Wait
> about one second. Push the three keys. (Maybe wait for ST to go after the
> floppy drive again) Push diskette into drive while holding the keys down.
> What a pain! I don't think it'll work, either.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> I'm going to call Supra today and ask them if they have a boot program
> that is a little less zealous ;-)

I just got off the phone with a tech-support guy at Supra. He tells me that
the scenario described above is exactly what I have to do; they cannot
program around it.

They say that the problem is in the "blitter" ROMs. The keycode that is
made by ctrl-shift-alt isn't available to the Supra boot program as soon as
that program would really like it to be. The boot program cannot detect
the key combo until much later in the boot, at which time the program is
just about to boot from the fixed disk anyway.

Farrell T. Woods

Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group 4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960
VOICE: 617-535-6644; FAX: (617) 535-5643; TWX: (710) 347-0125
INTERNET: f...@datacube.COM
UUCP: {rutgers, ihnp4, mirror}!datacube!ftw

"OS/2 -- Half an operating system"

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 05:53:08 GMT
From: ihnp4!chinet!d...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel A. Glasser)
Subject: Re: big arrays in MW C
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <2...@stag.UUCP> t...@stag.UUCP ( Todd Burkey ) writes:
>Hi,
> Does anyone know if MWC will safely handle large arrays now? I know
>that I had problems in the early versions with HDSCAN's arrays in that
>I had to keep the total amount of data in a particular array less than
>32K bytes. Now when I compile tests (i.e. a char[10000][12]), I get a
>message like:
> strict: size of array overflows size_t
>

This message is just a warning -- it is because size_t is in fact an
unsigned int in MWC 2.1.7. size_t is the default type of the result
of the sizeof operator. MWC does support objects larger than 64K now,
and this warning is harmless unless you are passing sizeof(foo) to a
function that is expecting an int. Sizeof is promoted to a long when
it overflows the unsigned int. When MWC releases an ANSI conforming
(rather than K&R, which is what it conforms to now with some ANSI
extensions), size_t will become a long instead of an int, and then
this kind of warning will go away.

Even in version 2.0, external objects of > 32K were supported, they
just could not be declared. They could be allocated with lmalloc()
and then accessed as arrays using the pointer/array equivilance.

I hope all of this helps.
--
Daniel A. Glasser
...!ihnp4!chinet!dag
...!ihnp4!mwc!dag
...!ihnp4!mwc!gorgon!dag
One of those things that goes "BUMP!!! (ouch!)" in the night.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 07:00:10 GMT
From: coplex!j...@BLOOM-BEACON.MIT.EDU (Jim Sewell)


Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <25...@killer.UUCP>, e...@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) writes:

[conversation ommitted]

> 2) Most of us are notoriously short on foresight, like I was when I
> thought that 64K and a floppy drive was the epitomy of computing (after all, I
> can do everything you can, right? I can process words, play games, etc.?).

> --
> Eric Lee Green e...@usl.CSNET Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191
> {cbosgd,ihnp4}!killer!elg Lafayette, LA 70509
> "There's someone in my head, but it's not me...." -PF

Speaking of being short on foresight, it was only today that I was modifying
my handy dandy disk re-organizer program (Devices are a pain!) and guess what?
I was trying to ^XF (save and finish up) out of Emacs and was out of disk space.
How many of you have ever told an editor you were finished, fallen short of disk
space, and lost everything because the editor was not taught social graces? I'm
sure I'm not the only one.
Solution? Use my MULTITASKING Amiga to clean out some disk space before I
clicked on the retry block of the requestor.
Result? I didn't kill my entire family due to the frustration of losing my
program.
Moral? Even though nearly anything can be simulated with proper programming on
a non M-T system, it rarely is. Many programmers take short cuts which
do not allow for mistakes. M-T'ing systems are like insurance in case
your favorite program has problems.

================================================================================
Jim Sewell "Make knowledge free!" <*> <*>
Code: 1-1A /

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Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #9
To: PET...@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, January 7, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 9

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
Re: Multi-tasking? A Nightmare...
Re: BMS controller package
Using a 520ST for video tape titling
Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
Re: Text -> Speech Programs
Re: IBM Drives with ST
cartridge slot kludge boards
TCP/IP for the ATARIs ?
Exactly what IS in a reg dev kit?
Re: Microsoft Write ...


Re: Christmas Adventure - Elves87 Part 1 of 4

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 17:01:46 GMT
From: mi...@ames.arpa (Mike Smithwick)


Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <20...@bath63.ux63.bath.ac.uk> p...@ux63.bath.ac.uk (Smee) writes:
>
> [deleted a bunch of stuff on how "we really don't need multi-tasking"
>
>I have an image of telling my machine 'make fred', and then letting it get on
>with it while I do a bit of word-processing, or whatever. Only to be hit
>milliseconds later with an alert box:
>
> BACKGROUND COMPILATION NEEDS LIBRARY DISK
> PLEASE INSERT LIBRARY DISK INTO DRIVE B
>
>and, a second or two after I do that:
>
> FOREGROUND PROCESS NEEDS AUTO-SAVE DISK
> PLEASE INSERT DISK INTO DRIVE B
>
This reminds me of a joke. . .

A guy goes to a doctor and says "Doc, it hurts when I do this" (he lifts
an arm up, or something)

So the doctor says, "well then, don't do that".

If running marble-madness slows up a compile too much, don't run
marble-madness.

The moral of the story is, don't ask us do be limited by others "limitations".
As opposed to IBM, and now even (Cr)Apple, who are now bending down to the
lowest common denominator, who don't want to burden the average user with
unnecessary complexity (the original closed-Mac architecture was a
manifestation of this philosophy).

--
*** mike (powered by M&Ms) smithwick ***
"if it wasn't for venitian blinds,
it would be curtains for all of us!"
[discalimer : nope, I don't work for NASA, I take full blame for my ideas]

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 18:40:24 GMT
From: rochester!ur-tut!dp...@louie.udel.edu (Davide P. Cervone)
Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A Nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <21...@crash.cts.com> hai...@pnet01.cts.com (Wade Bickel) writes:
> What about the example I gave of two resident programs cohabitating
> and interacting even though written in different Languages? While
> you don't NEED to have multi-tasking to do this, it makes an otherwise
> complicated job very much easier, and therefore much more likely to be
> successfully accomplished. It certainly is attractive to me because
> it means I don't have to "share" any of my source with someone whom
> I may want to collaborate with.

I think Wade is right on target here. Multi-tasking does not have to be seen
by the user to be important. On the Amiga, you can't HELP but use multi-
tasking, because the operating system is using it all the time. Each disk
drive has a separate "Filing System" process running (use MonProc, you'll see
them), there is a separate input task running (I believe that Intuition really
is an input handler, so technically, it runs as part of the input device task),
each CLI window has a console task associated with it, the serial port has a
separate task controlling it.

Why is this important? Because it makes it so much easier to do things. For
example, early on in the Amiga's life, Matt Dillon (I think) distributed a
set of asynchronous file routines. These are very useful, and almost trivial
to implement under a multi-tasking OS (not to belittle Matt's work - it's quite
good).

Or how about the Workbench? Contrary to many people's belief, the WB is NOT
the operating system. It's just a program. A plain, old, ordinary program,
with no special tricks or hooks. An ordinary mortal could write a program that
does similar actions. Witness HackBench. I've often thought about writing
a WB replacement myself.

If you want to talk about disk swapping, try switching between applications
on a Macintosh. It has to load the Finder every time. Why do you think theres
a "mini-finder" menu option? I keep trying to pull down the "screen" and use
the finder which I expect to still be running back there.

I've written programs that monitor other programs (MonProc and MonIDCMP), and
that run as input handlers (ClickUpFront, HeliosMouse, wKeys), and some stuff
that I haven't released. These would be much more difficult without
multi-tasking.

Code can be made much more modular with multi-tasking, and smaller, too. Unix
people should love this, because you can make programs much more like filters,
except you have both ends of the pipe running at the same time, passing data
via a message port, or even a PIPE: device. Functions don't have to be
duplicated from program to program. For instance, if I write a program that
graphs a function, I will not have to add a save-to-IFF-file option, because
I already have a program that lets me select a portion of a window or screen
and save it as an IFF file. That's a normal program - no special desk-
accessory hooks, no special requirements about what programs I can use it with,
or what ones I HAVE to have running when I use it.

Don't get me wrong, desk-accessories are great (I'd never be able to use a Mac
without them), but they are an attempt to achieve multi-taksing where it's
not built into the system to start with. Admirable! Great stuff! Keep up
the good work! But don't complain when someone offers you what you've been
trying to achieve all along.

> THE POINT IS THIS: As a programmer I find the idea of writing
> such a program as being much simpler with multi-tasking facilities
> than without them.

Exactly! Right on!

> My question for you is, what do you have against multi-tasking?

I also wonder the same thing. Where's the beef?

> Take OUR (all of us who have given testomonials) word for it that
> the disk swapping "nightmare" is indeed just a bad dream.

As I mentioned before, I'd hate to have to load the Workbench in from disk
every time I quit using a program! I'm much happier letting it run in the
background until I need it again.

One last comment: (finally :-) the times I find multi-tasking the most
helpful is when I WASN'T expecting to have to use it. If I'm using a word
processor writing a paper, and need to check some results, I can just start up
my statistical analysis program to get my answers (and I can keep on writing
while it loads in of the floppy). I don't want to have to know ahead of time
that I need to start up whatever carousel or special multi-tasking editor
I need in order to do this. If I knew ahead of time, I'd have done the
statistics before I started the word-processor!

Well, I've gone on far too long as it is. Thanks for listening.

> Wade.
>UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!haitex
>ARPA: crash!pnet01!hai...@nosc.mil
>INET: hai...@pnet01.CTS.COM

Davide P. Cervone
dp...@tut.cc.rochester.edu
dp...@ur-tut.UUCP
DP...@UORDBV.BITNET

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 13:54:07 GMT
From: rochester!rocksanne!xrxns!xerox12!to...@rutgers.edu (Tom Love)


Subject: Re: BMS controller package
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

re: bugs in bms package -

i've been running a bms-based hard disk system since last january.
the only bugs i have ever encountered were software bugs. recall that
the bms adapter board has a battery-backed clock. it seems that chris
rhodin, the guy who runs bms and does the development, made a very small
but important error in the clock-setting program (settime.prg, i think -
the one that goes in your auto folder) which screwed up on february.
actually it was kind of humorous. never affected hard disk use at all.
he found the problem feb. 1 1987, and had updated software out in the mail
to everyone shortly thereafter.

i'm mainly posting this to stop what could be a harmful rumor. i am a
very satisfied customer of berkeley microsystems. their product is
reasonably priced, in my opinion, and their telephone support is superb
(of course, before they had any documentation, it had to be! :-)

the bms-100 adapter has evolved somewhat; it is supposedly laid out more
attractively on the board, it is pretty well documented, the software has
all been rewritten. it's a pretty mature product now.

if there were hardware bugs, i would be interested in hearing about them.
if not, please don't do bms any disservice by spreading such rumors.

one more note: i wrote an article for ST Applications magazine last spring
detailing the construction of a bms-based hard disk system for the ST.
it covers all the details of a single-HD system, and vaguely addresses
the double-HD system too (at that time i only had one HD). it appeared
in march 87, i think. at that time i offered to mail out copies, in
either electronic or paper form, to anyone who requested one. that
offer still stands. note that the electronic form omits the graphics
(done on my cad system at work, not on the st), so if you want the whole
thing you should buy the magazine or request the paper copy from me.
if you want electronic, mail me at the address below; if you want paper,
send me a self-addressed stamped envelope to the postal address below.


tom love
Xerox Engineering Design and Documentation Systems
Leesburg, VA 22075 (703)729-8000

{cornell, kodak, ritcv, rutgers, cmcl2, llxn}!rochester!
rocksanne!xrxns!toml
{rocksvax, sunybcs}!

rt 2, box 277
sterling, va 22170


tom love
xerox Engineering Design and Documentation Systems
leesburg, va 22075 (703)729-8000

{cornell, kodak, ritcv, rutgers, cmcl2, llxn}!rochester!
rocksanne!xrxns!toml
{rocksvax, sunybcs}!

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 21:46:00 GMT
From: ssdevo.dec.com!ma...@decwrl.dec.com (Randy Marks DTN 522-2718)
Subject: Using a 520ST for video tape titling
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Has anybody used their ST for creating video tape titles? If so, I'd like
to hear how you did it.
- What software did you use to create the title?
- Did you transfer the image directly via video connectors? Or did you
simply record the image displayed on the monitor using a camcorder?

Randy Marks
...decwrl!ssdevo.dec.com!marks

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 22:32:41 GMT
From: ihnp4!ihuxy!rn...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Ron Schreiner)


Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Well this subject line get my vote for the "longest-most-usless" aword
of 87. If you are not clever enough to take advantage of multi-tasking
then don't use it, and stop telling everyone "who needs it ? "


--
Ron Schreiner AT&T Bell Labs ...ihnp4!ihuxy!rnss

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 13:33:36 GMT
From: ihnp4!mhuxu!c...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Craig B. Ziemer)
Subject: Re: Text -> Speech Programs
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <33...@nswitgould.OZ>, to...@nswitgould.OZ (Tony McGrath) writes:
>
> What he is looking for is a Text -> Speech conversion program that

Tony:

I tried several times to reach you via e-mail, but was unsuccessful (not
surprising since the path was 17 machines long). There is a prograam
called STSPEECH that will speak a line typed in on the keyboard or speak
an already-created text file. Needless to say, it has a very strong
"synthesized speech" accent but it really quite understandable. It is a
public domain program. Send me e-mail if you want the details.

Craig Z. at AT&T
mhuxu!cbz

------------------------------

Date: 30 Dec 87 02:56:36 GMT
From: lakesys!ri...@csd1.milw.wisc.edu (Rich Dankert)
Subject: Re: IBM Drives with ST
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <5...@unirot.UUCP> jo...@unirot.UUCP (josh cohen) writes:
>
>lineaterlineaterlineaterlineater
>
>
> Does anyone have the document file on how to hook up an IBM
>style drive?

Josh;

Here is the connections that I made. Has been doen to the Tandons and others
without problems.

ST pin # IBM Style drive pin #

1 ----------------------- 30
2 ----------------------- 32
3 ----------------------- 3
4 ----------------------- 8
5 -- This is the drive select - hook to #2 (B) on IBM Style
6 -- Drive select also, but ignore this one
7 ----------------------- 3
8 ----------------------- 16
9 ----------------------- 18
10 ----------------------- 20
11 ----------------------- 22
12 ----------------------- 24
13 ----------------------- 26
14 ----------------------- 28

There is also a resistor that will have to be pulled up, to make
the drive work correctly. I Think it's R49 on most. It's value is in the
range of 100 to three hundred Ohm's. It's usually situated close to the
drive select block in the IBM Style drive.

A little more info here.

On the Atari's drive connector, pins 5 and 6 are the drive select,
but be aware that these are switched as you chain the drives through. I
usually connect the drive right to the drive A (Atari's) out port.

On the IBM Style drives, pins 10 & 12 are the drive selects. Use
drive select 0, (pin #10, in the Ibm style)

This should help you in making the drive work correctly. One more
note here. You will have to obtain (or write your own) program that will
tell the ST that you have a 5 1/4 drive connected and to slow the seek
rate down. The 5 1/4's cannot and will not work at the default seek rate.

Good luck!

-rich

UUCP: {Ihnp4,uwvax}!uwmcsd1!lakesys!rich
Discalimer: The words,ideas,and expressions are my own, and not nessasarily

always correct, and I make np warranty (expressed or Implied) to the above
statement(s) though I do know that it does work for me and other's.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 21:29:32 GMT
From: pixar!m...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Griffin Russell)
Subject: cartridge slot kludge boards
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

Anyone out there know a company that sells a prototype
board for the ST cartridge slot. Any info on physically
plugging into the cartridge slot would be appreciated.
--
Mike Russell ucbvax!pixar!mgr Don't worry, amnesia is a common
side effect of re-incarnation.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1987
From: Frank Elsner - TUBerlin/ZRZ <181%DB0TUZ0...@forsythe.stanford.edu>
Reply-To: Frank Elsner - TUBerlin/ZRZ
<181%DB0TUZ0...@forsythe.stanford.edu>
To: INFO-A...@score.stanford.edu
Subject: TCP/IP for the ATARIs ?

We, Technical University Berlin Computing Center, are urgently
looking for a TCP/IP implementation for the ATARIs.

If you have any informations, don't hesitate to send it to us :-

-Frank

------------------------------

Date: 30 Dec 87 02:49:51 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!watdragon!violet!rfpf...@rutgers.edu (Ron Pfeifle)
Subject: Exactly what IS in a reg dev kit?
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

I've seen alot of flames about the registered developer kits. But I don't
even really know what's in them.

Would someone out there who knows please enlighten me (us) as what exactly
are the contents of a "registered developer's kit"?

(Just the facts, ma'am)

Ron

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 18:41:15 GMT
From: portal!atari!ne...@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris)


Subject: Re: Microsoft Write ...
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <3...@lakesys.UUCP>, mar...@lakesys.UUCP (Martin Wiedmeyer) writes:

> Neil, what's the Mfg's Suggested Retail Price (list price) for MS
> Write?

$129.

--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 17:56:32 GMT
From: portal!atari!ne...@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris)


Subject: Re: Christmas Adventure - Elves87 Part 1 of 4
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <2...@dalcsug.UUCP>, eul...@dalcsug.UUCP (George Seto) writes:

> The adventure was done with the ADVSYS program which is available for the
> be or should be usuable on these systems. The kernal of the ADVSYS was
> extensively re-worked for this game and has many additional features
> that you would not expect from playing around with ADVSYS.

OK, where did this come from, how can we get the reworked ADVSYS, and, most
important -- are there docs on how to program it? The original ADVSYS is
fascinating but ultimately frustrating because the docs don't give you
enough information to actually program the durn thing!

--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

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Reply-To: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: INFO-A16@CANADA01
From: Info-A...@Score.Stanford.EDU

Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #10
To: PET...@GW.SCRI.FSU.EDU,
DUBRAVK@FSU

Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, January 7, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 10

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

Re: FOLDRXXX.PRG, you got it!


Re: 40-folder bug and FOLDRXXX.PRG

Re: Multiuser BBS
Re: TOS bug ? -> hard disk cables
Disk Controllers
Operating systems for the ST
Hard drives for the ST
EasyDraw XX.XX
WordPerfect Update

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 18:31:38 GMT
From: portal!atari!ne...@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris)


Subject: Re: FOLDRXXX.PRG, you got it!
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <105100040@datacube>, f...@datacube.UUCP writes:

>> In one of the atari periodicals it was announced that they fixed the 40
>> folder bug in the Mega St roms.
>
> If those are the same ROMs that they are selling us developers, then the
> answer is NO, the "40 folder bug" still exists, and the magazine article
> is incorrect.
>
> Neil: please jump in here if if the ROM upgrade for the 520/1040 is
> different than what is in the Megas. I understand they are the same.

You're correct, Farrell. The 40 folder limit still exists in the ROMs. We
still recomment FOLDRXXX.PRG as the fix for the problem.

Which ST periodical was this? I thought we had most of them trained to call
and verify information before printing things like that.

--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 18:38:48 GMT
From: portal!atari!ne...@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris)


Subject: Re: 40-folder bug and FOLDRXXX.PRG
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <15...@mind.UUCP>, rom...@mind.UUCP (Antonio Romero) writes:

> Hmm. Does this suggest upcoming compatibility problems?
> Or perhaps the advent of a new operating system altogether?
> Could it be... MULTITASKING? Okay guys, warm up the rumor mills...
>
> -Antonio Romero
> rom...@psycho.Princeton.EDU

*** FLAME ON ***

What good does it do to start rumors like this?

Do us all a favor, if you need something to talk about, discuss the weather.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to add features to the machine.
But, we're not adding this one at the moment. And there are so many rumors
getting people jazzed up for nothing...

The rumor mill in our community has gone a bit haywire lately. There's
enough going on without people making things up.

Most ridiculous rumors of 1987 awards:

1. The blitters didn't work, so we're using kludged-up Amiga blitters.

2. The blitters partially work, so we removed 4 of 8 functions from them.

Please, folks, give us a break. We're easy enough to talk to if you want to
ASK a question. Sometimes it seems that rumors are so much fun that their
veracity has no bearing on how they spread. Sometimes they spread AFTER the
facts are clarified -- fiction being more fun, I presume.

*** FLAME OFF ***

Sorry folks, but it's been a rough year.

Best to all for 1988! Hope you're having a good holiday season.

--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

Date: 28 Dec 87 18:21:16 GMT
From: portal!atari!ne...@uunet.uu.net (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: Multiuser BBS
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

In article <14...@saturn.ucsc.edu>, kor...@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Steven Grimm) writes:

> The ST's BIOS is re-entrant. GEMDOS is not. (I have a multiuser BBS
> system to prove it...)

OK, Steven, where's my copy of the multiuser version? And whatever hardware
it takes to make it work. Atari Base is waiting...

Maybe I'd better backtrack a moment. Here in Atari, we run a free BBS for
users. It's known as Atari Base, and can be reached at 408-745-5308.

Here's the rub -- we run 5 lines into 5 separate systems. The line you get
through to is simply the first available line. But, if you leave a question
on that line, you'd better make darn sure you get back to that line.

We're looking for a solution. We need a way for the lines to talk to each
other. Solutions that have been discussed, in order of preference, are:

1. Multi-port RS232 box that lets several modems talk to one ST. The
advantage is that we'd need one computer instead of 5. The disadvantage is
that if the one system goes down, everything dies. We're willing to live
with this, because system crashes have been extremely rare in the 2 years
since Atari Base opened in its current configuration.

2. Network that lets each line share messages. At one time there was talk
of trying a MIDI-based network, but work on this was shelved by QMI due to
the inability to resolve conflicting RS232 and MIDI interrupts. Maybe
"PromiseLAN" will solve this one.

3. Using a system like Fnet or Fidonet and having lines call each other to
pass messages. Not too elegant in my book, and lines are only updated at
intervals (probably daily), but we could do this today if we wanted to.

The other burning issue is, which software to use? We're currently using
the Michtron BBS. Michtron has abandoned its plan to sell a hardware
multiport gizmo because the engineers in the UK who were working on one
couldn't get it to work.

FoReM 2.0 supports Fnet, so if we wanted to go to approach #3 we could do
it. But with the number of novice callers we get, I'm a bit leery of using
FoReM. Any comments to the contrary, netlanders?

NiteLite Systems now has a hardware device to let 4 or 8 modems share an ST.
Their BBS program supports this. But... well, I used NiteLite on the 8-bit
before we went to the ST on our board. I like NiteLite's message facility,
but the program needs improving in the user log (not sorted at all) and the
download area. Paul Swanson, NiteLite's author, is working at making
improvements, and is very willing to take criticism and act upon it.

BB/ST is very powerful, and Steven Grimm is working on the multi-line
facility. But we're still waiting on some hardware. QMI is a great little
company, but I know they're (almost) as overworked as we are at Atari. So,
timetables for this are in doubt. Also, BB/ST's tree-structured message
base is not my cup of tea.

And then there's BBS Express ST. Keith Ledbetter is doing a nice job on
this one. The message base and file areas work well. But there's been no
hint from ICD about the prospects for a multi-line function. I'd like to
hear of one, because I like the program, which has a nice extra for us --
the script language for it would make development of an online order entry
system fairly simple. It would be a boon to users to allow them to order
spare parts online.

One last thing -- we're committed to running the whole thing on Atari
equipment. Partly because of budget (total cost for system hardware
out-of-pocket to date has been $0), and mainly because it's a good excuse to
push the envelope of what can be done on the system. The makers of BBS
programs would love to see us use their program, because it's a great
promotion for them. So, I tell them to give me what I need! Maybe some day
it will work.

Just to not irritate anyone, I'm aware of the PD program STadel, but this
one gave new users fits when I tried it at home. And there's CBBS from
Oasis, which just came in and hasn't been tried yet. No word on multi-line
functions here either.

Any helpful advice from netland?

--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS
CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

Date: 30 Dec 87 12:37:13 GMT
From: mcvax!nikhefh!t...@uunet.uu.net (Geert J v Oldenborgh)
Subject: Re: TOS bug ? -> hard disk cables
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

> (discussion about errors being probable with too long a cable)

Just having obtained a SH205 with a 85cm cable (here in Holland it is prohibited
by law to use inches) I followed Landon's suggestion in a simplified way: just
2000 times 'cmp aap noot >> mies' with aap, noot identical 64K files. Cmp did
not report any errors on this 256M data transfer in spite of various lamps,
a monitor etc. being switched in the neighbourhood. And I rather like the
longer cable.

Geert Jan (t...@nikhefh.hep.nl)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 87 17:20:25 EST
From: Ravi Subrahmanyan <ra...@mcnc.org>
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu
Subject: Disk Controllers

This is a forwarded message: please reply to the address specified below.

>Subject: Disk Controllers
>From: Reno...@Xerox.COM
>Reply-To: Reno...@Xerox.COM
>Message-Id: <871228-104652-1140@Xerox>
>Status: R
>
>
>Could someone please send out the address and/or phone numbers for BMS and
>ICD?
>Thanx
> Reno

------------------------------

From: AB084%DK0RRZK...@forsythe.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1987 02:03:18 CET
To: INFO-A...@score.stanford.edu
Subject: Operating systems for the ST

A few weeks ago I sent a letter to the net in which I tried to initiate a
dicussion about OS's. There was some response to it on the net and a couple
of people wrote to me directly. There is one letter which I find interesting
enough to forward to the net, because it contains information I have not seen on

the net so far. Here it is. (I hope you don't mind, Skip:)
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>From: ucbcad:ames.UUCP:uw-beaver:uw-entropy:mcgp1:f...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
>To: uw-entropy:DK0RRZK0
>Subject: Re: OS/9 and other operating systems
>In-Reply-To: your article <871203021...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
>Content-Type: text
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>
>There is one other (very real) operating system which is available *NOW*
>and has been available since Jan 1987. It is called IDRIS (TM).
>It is a product of Whitesmiths Ltd, of Westford MA. Those familiar
>with "Software Tools" book of Kernighan and Plauger, will be happy to
>know that P.J. Plauger is the president and founder of Whitesmiths Ltd.
>
>IDRIS has been available on many processors including PDP-11, VAXen,
>680X0, and 8086. It was first released in 1978 on PDP-11s. IDRIS 2.2 was
>ported to the ATARI ST (520, and 1040) in summer 1986, by Computer Tools
>International Inc., for which, I am an engineer. The current version is
>IDRIS 3.12, with release 3.2 of the C compiler. The IDRIS68K 2.2 was shown
>at ATARI booth in Fall COMDEX 1986. The 3.12 release was shown at ATARI
>booth in Fall COMDEX 1987.
>
>More about IDRIS.
>
>IDRIS is a real time, UNIX(TM) compatible, multi-user, multi-tasking operating
>system. Its C compiler (Whitesmiths C 3.2) is fully compatible with the
>proposed ANSI C. The system library is fully compatible with latest POSIX(TM)
>proposals. Whitesmiths is an active member of both ANSI C, and POSIX standards
>committees. IDRIS can, (and in the case of ST and MEGA does), emulated MMU in
>software. It can, however, use hardware MMU if it is present. In the case
>of the 68K version of IDRIS that would be MC68451. IDRIS68K supports MC68881
>as a coprocessor or a mapped device.
>
>Currently, many UNIX environment software are being ported to the IDRIS-ST.
>Syntactic Corp. is porting Crystalwriter+(TM), Network Research Corp. is
>porting FUSION(TM) Network System (including TCP/IP). Oracle SQL is also
>being ported. Computer Tools Int'l is porting X-Window system.
>
>As far as hardware is concerned, Computer Tools Int'l Inc. has working
>prototypes of a 4-port I/O Card for ST/MEGA computers. We also have
>prototypes of Ethernet/Cheapernet card which is to support FUSION.
>
>The 4-Port I/O card (4 rs232s, running at up to 19.2 kbps) was shown
>at Fall 1987 COMDEX. We also showed a demo version of X-Windows for
>the ST/MEGA under IDRIS. This product is called STX-Window(TM) system.
>
>Tom Love of ST applications has done a review of IDRIS-ST 3.11 with
>release 3.1 of the C compiler. It think it was the November 87 issue.
>
>IDRIS-ST also supports most libvdi, and all LINE A calls (very carefully)
>
>For more info you can write or call Computer Tools Int'l Inc.
>720 S. 333rd, Suite 101
>Federal Way, WA, 98003
>PHONE (206) 838-4990.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Skip Tavakkolian

My questions to IDRIS users:
- An emulated MMU seems a good idea if there is no hardware. But doesn't that
make the OS very slow?
- Any experience with porting UNIX software?

Does anybody know whether IDRIS is available in Germany?

In my first letter I mentioned the OS's RTOS-UH and EUMEL. Several people
asked for more information about these. I don't feel too competent...
If there is somebody who knows them well and is ready to write an article
about them (or one of them), I'd be grateful. If not, I am willing to look
up the magazine articles and to extract a short characterization.

Michael Eibl <ab...@dk0rrzk0.bitnet>
Institut f. Theoretische Physik
Universitaet zu Koeln
D-5000 Koeln
West Germany

------------------------------

Date: 29 Dec 87 21:16:31 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!yunexus!gen1!ch...@uunet.uu.net (Chris Parkinson)
Subject: Hard drives for the ST
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

I have noticed a few requests on the net for information regarding
hard drives, hard drive kits, and the like for the ST. I have just
purchased a "TAMI-HD40" hard drive system from FutureDOS, and am *very*
happy with it so far.

I own an Atari Mega-2 ST and required a larger disk capacity in order
to run GEM, Magic Sac, and OS-9/68000 efficiently. The single drive system I
received from FutureDOS is in a long enclosure that is designed to accommodate
a second half height drive.
Since the system is custom made, I ordered the 44 Mb (formatted) hard
disk configuration, for which I paid $1400 Cdn.. Other capacities are
available upon request. Also, all of the hard drive systems are fully
assembled and tested, so reliability is assured.

If you are looking for a high quality/high capacity hard drive system
at a reasonable price, then this may be the thing for you. You can
reach the folks at FutureDOS by writing them at

FutureDOS,
1207-120 Torresdale Ave.,
North York, Ontario,
CANADA, M2R 3N7.
Tel. (416) 736-0321


Christopher Parkinson
yunexus!gen1!yuplanet!chris

BTW-Standard disclaimer...I am in no way affiliated with FutureDOS, I am
just another happy customer!!!

------------------------------

Date: 30 Dec 87 23:43:37 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!par...@uunet.uu.net (Pavneet Arora)
Subject: EasyDraw XX.XX
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu

I saw a demonstration of EasyDraw recently, the version # of which
I don't know. I have a few peeves about the package which prevent me
from purchasing it. Since I do need an object oriented drawing package
I wanted to confirm that my objections are legitimate. If they are, and
if EasyDraw is listening then please take them as suggestions.

1. Text cannot be rotated. ( FATAL if you want to draw rough
graphs ). The closest you can get is something like:

R
o
t
a
t
e.

Not too useful if you are considering drawing architectural
plans which require sideways printing for a better fit.

2. Exiting will always request if you want to save your file even
if you have made no changes since the last save.

3. You have to explicitly select an object and then click again
to move it. A single click should suffice the way it does with
copying files etc.

4. The default for text should be justify off. I usually use
text as labels and can't see why justify should be on. I also
forgot most of the time to change justification when entering
text so that I had to go and change text attributes - a real
nuisance.

Some of the features I wish had been adopted from MacDraw:

5. A cubic spline fit (called SMOOTH and UNSMOOTH in MacDraw).
A really useful feature when one wants to draw gaussians and
sine waves etc. the way I needed to for my thesis.

6. The ability of picking a larger than one page size for the
drawing and then having EasyDraw print it out serially page
wise. This allows more complex drawings to be mosaiced easily.

Has anyone had similar experiences?

Pavneet Arora
parora@utgpu

------------------------------

Date: 31 Dec 87 00:26:39 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!par...@uunet.uu.net (Pavneet Arora)
Subject: WordPerfect Update
To: info-a...@score.stanford.edu


Just a note for WP users. The new update is supposed to be
out in early January. Since I didn't get any response to my
previous posting about the numerous bugs in WP I am not really sure
if any WP users actually exist. 8-{)

In response to Neil Harris' comment that the support is excellent, I have
a few comments of my own:

1. No company, software or otherwise, should be able to release
a product that doesn't even come close to working.
Bugs are one thing - fatal bugs another. I use the following
analogy - If I approached WP and asked them to give me
a copy of the software, and then told them that I would pay
them in a few months i.e. whenever I could afford it, I would
not expect them to hand over the package. And yet, WP has
taken money from users and then handed over a useless package
without ever notifying any of its users that there are problems.
And when a user tracks down the bugs and calls WP, they say
they are aware of it and a working version should be out soon.
Soon in my case has meant 3 months now, and I still don't have
a working version.

2. A company that only includes its UTAH address for technical
support, even in packages sold in Canada can hardly be seen
as being concerned for all of its users. By the way the (800) number
doesn't work from Canada so that you have to call WP on your
own expense during the day at full rate. Technical support
does exist in Canada from J.B. Marketing in Cornwall. Their
phone number is : 1-(800)-267-1731.

3. Part of servicing a product means keeping in touch with the
buyers and users and being above board about things( i.e.
through bulletins ). I have not seen
any indication that WP considers this a priority. This is
critical in the present case where there must be bewildered
users trying to figure out why a $595 software package doesn't
work.

I think the larger issue here is the ethics with which high tech companies
operate. Personally, I don't feel that WP has thus far exhibited anything that
qualifies it for the praise that Neil Harris had to offer. My experience
has been in dealing with WP both in Canada and the US for the past three
months now.

parora@utgpu

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