600XL vs. 800XL
Bill Endter RCU/DEC
What is the difference between an Atari 600XL and an Atari 800XL? If a 600XL has 64k memory is it the same as an 800XL?
Thanks,
Bill
Craig Rothman
> What is the difference between an Atari 600XL and an Atari 800XL? If a 60
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
>
Theres a few internal differences....
for one thing the 600xl has 16k I think.. I think it wasnt sold with 64k
like the 800xl was. The computer also does not have a monitor port, which
is a major problem for those who want to use XEP80's.. I know that theres
other differences, but thats what I know about. It also isnt able to be
rambo'd with ICD's memory expander.. I think my directions say that it will
only work with 1200xl's and 800xl's.. Thats another drawback.
I would say except for the following, its as good as an 800x.. It depends on
what you used it for.. For me, I would take a 600xl and rip it limb from
limb taking its keyboard and internal chips out to use as spare parts.. to
keep my 800xl going into the 2000's..
-Cra...@athena.mit.edu
(no responses or email sent to me at unixland.. they dont get here!)
Jeff McWilliams
is smaller, and the keyboard seems less comfortable due to the fact that
there is no room to rest your palms when typing. Also, it is missing
a monitor jack, although that can be added. It also comes stock with 16K
RAM but this can be upgraded to 64K either internally or with the plug in
module that plugs into the Parallel BUS. ALso the 600XL uses 2 16Kx4
DRAMS instead of 8 64Kx1 DRAMS. This makes upgrading to anything beyond
64K a pain since you would need two 256Kx4 DRAMS, and nobody makes upgrade
boards like this for the 600XL. I think Innovative COncepts does make a
128K upgrade for the 600XL which is "Completely 130XE compatible", probably
meaning the Antic will see the extra memory just like the 130XE.
Jeff McWilliams
JJMC...@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU
GEnie: J.MCWILLIAM3
"Atari 8-bit die hards never run out of power"
News system owner ID
>end...@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Bill Endter RCU/DEC) writes:
>for one thing the 600xl has 16k I think.. I think it wasnt sold with 64k
>like the 800xl was. The computer also does not have a monitor port, which
>is a major problem for those who want to use XEP80's.
Minor correction... the XEP80 connects to a joystick port. It has the
display memory built in, and has its own composite output jack. -Stan
Jeff McWilliams
Close, Stan. The jack is an RF modulator jack for a TV. You have to
do some circuitry addition inside the 600XL and install your own
connect to get NTSC type signals for a monitor. But I do believe
one of the XE machines has a single jack for monitor and another
for audio. Maybe it was the XEGS but that doesn't seem right as
you would think it would/should have a TV connector as it was
a "game Machine". Anyone with XE systems care to straighten me out
on this??
Eric Sokolowsky
video; the third is combined for hook-up to a TV switchbox.
Craig Rothman
> >like the 800xl was. The computer also does not have a monitor port, which
> >is a major problem for those who want to use XEP80's.
>
> Minor correction... the XEP80 connects to a joystick port. It has the
> display memory built in, and has its own composite output jack. -Stan
Yep! I made a mistake. What I was really trying to say was that Atariwriter
80, (one of just 2 major programs to support the XEP80) will not load in on
a computer with less than 128k. This means that you couldnt use the xep80
to do word processing on a 64k 600xl... Only the 800xl would really be
expandable (rambo upgrade) to become fully xe compatable and run this
program. Bobterm would run ok and work on the xep80 and an upgraded
600xl.. but there too is the problem that it doesnt have a monitor jack and
so you wouldnt be able to see the 40 column menus!!!! Youd have to make some
kind of switch to do 40/80 column switching on 1 terminal...
All in all... The 600xl is very limited with the XEP80...
600xl's represent parts to me.. I see them advertised for $10..
paying $30-40 for an 800xl is well worth the extra money and features.
Another thing is that the 600xl would have no trouble with using an MIO on
that bus port it has, but since the 600xl doesnt have a monitor port, it
would have to use a TV set. A tv set with an MIO is very difficult as the
MIO sends out quite a lot of interference. It wouldnt be good to own a
600xl if you want to use the MIO... (unless you build a monitor jack
somehow...).. Just my opinion..
-Craig
Jeff McWilliams
I think you seem to misunderstand the 600XL a bit. As it comes STOCK sure
it has all the problems you mention. But it can be easily upgraded to
have a monitor jack, 64K or 128K and even the 1200XL function keys!
I have one with the monitor jack, 64K and four FN keys mounted to the right
of the cart. port. It's the most compact XL/XE and I hope to upgrade it to
128K someday as it makes a better portable computer than the 800XL.
Jeff McWilliams
Michael Current
Just to correct your correction of his correction of your correction...
There are two versions of AtariWriter 80: the
130XE Version (128K), and the
800, XL, XE Version (48K).
They come on the flip sides of the same disk.
--
Michael Current, Cleveland Free-Net 8-bit Atari SIGOp -->> go atari8 <<--
The Cleveland Free-Net Atari SIG is the Central Atari Information Network
Internet: curr...@carleton.edu / UUCP: ...!umn-cs!ccnfld!currentm
BITNET: currentm%carleton.edu@interbit / Cleveland Free-Net: aa700
apple.com!well!moon!cyberden!phbill
> What is the difference between an Atari 600XL and an Atari 800XL? If a 60
>
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| / |\
| H E \ Y B E R |/ E N [ phbill@<watch this space> (Bill kendrick) ]
Russell Gladden
anyone has a textfile and/or schematics describing the procedure, please
email them to me, or if they're not to big, post them here. Thanks.
/|\ Russ.
--
Russell J. Gladden - r...@garfield.cs.mun.ca _ /\
Telephone: (709) 753-5463. \'o.O'
Mail: 134-B Patrick Street, St. John's, =(___)=
Newfoundland, Canada, A1E 2T1. U
Craig Rothman
Jeff, no I didnt misunderstand the 600xl at all. upgrading a 600xl isnt
cheap! Its either $25 for an atari made plug in module. OR! its $15 for a
64k upgrade kit. (check the BEST catalog if you dont believe me).
Also, The 600xl composite monitor kit is $12!!!!!
So how can you justify bothering to do all of this work on a 600xl when a
used 800xl runs $40-50 and doesnt have to be worked on at all!!!!
At the cheapest, the costs run $27!!! As for compact, that it is.
Its smaller, but I went from a 1200xl (undoubtably the FATTEST atari 8 bit
ever produced to an 800xl, the 800xl isnt a problem as to its size on my
desktop. I dont know of any XE compatable 128 memory upgrades out for a
600xl either. Just the 1200xl and 800xl.... Based on what my personal views
are and the costs, its doubtful that a 600xl would be little more than a raw
living donor for my 800xl..
(watch in horror!)
-Craig
Craig Rothman
> Just to correct your correction of his correction of your correction...
>
> There are two versions of AtariWriter 80: the
> 130XE Version (128K), and the
> 800, XL, XE Version (48K).
>
> They come on the flip sides of the same disk.
I didnt know that! I got mine second hand.. I just got a backup copy
and the manuals (proofreader disk too).. I didnt get the original
disk, and the version I have is just the 128k one!!!!
Now I have to track down this XL version.... Any differences?
Should I bother? I have 1 xe, and a rambo 800xl anyways..
-Craig
Craig Rothman
>
> > What is the difference between an Atari 600XL and an Atari 800XL? If a
> >
> I think the 600XL is only 16K? Am I wrong, guys/gals??
Nope! not wrong, but theres a few more differences than that.
Thats the main one. Its also smaller and doesnt have a monitor jack.
It can be upgraded to become similar to a stock 800xl..
But its cheaper to get an 800xl used instead.
Craig Rothman
> I'm looking for instructions on how to upgrade a 600XL to 64K (or more). If
> anyone has a textfile and/or schematics describing the procedure, please
> email them to me, or if they're not to big, post them here. Thanks.
I dont have a textfile, but BEST ELECTRONICS sells everyting you need.
an atari plug in expander for $24.95 and another solder in one for $15.
Call em up! 408-243-6950
Good luck!
-Cra...@athena.mit.edu
(no mail to me at Unixland, it doesnt get here!)
Kenneth M. Sumrall
>anyone has a textfile and/or schematics describing the procedure, please
>email them to me, or if they're not to big, post them here. Thanks.
>
| Ken Sumrall | Internet: ken%hp...@hplabs.hp.com |
| HP California Language Labs | UUCP: ...!hplabs!hpda!ken |
| "I'd stomp desert dope heads for some gas in my moped!" - Bill the Cat |
| "What a stupid world" -Calvin (speaking to Hobbes) |
==============================================================================
HOW TO UPGRADE YOUR ATARI 600XL TO 64K RAM
THIS MOD IS COPYRIGHTED BY KEN SUMRALL. HOWEVER, YOU MAY FREELY
DISTRIBUTE IT, AND MODIFY IT, AS LONG AS THIS NOTICE IS INCLUDED
IN ITS ENTIRERTY. THE AUTHOR MAY BE REACHED AT THE FOLLOWING
EMAIL ADDRESSES:
ken%hp...@hplabs.hp.com
...!hplabs!hpda!ken
You will need the follow parts to perform this mod:
(2) 4464 RAM chip, 64Kx4, 150ns or faster.
Additionally, you will need chip pullers, a soldering iron, and 3 small
pieces of wire. I used wire wrap wire when I did this mod.
If the chips on your 600XL are socketed, you're in luck, otherwise, you need to
first unsolder the following chips:
(1) 74S32 location U18
(2) 74LS158 locations U5 and U6
(2) 4416 locations U11 and U12
and put sockets on the mother board in their place to make the job easier.
Now bend up pin 9 on the 74S32, and put it back in its socket on
the mother board. Bend up pin 3 on the 74LS158 in location U5, and put it
back in its socket. Also, bend up pin 10 on the 74LS158 in location U6,
and put that chip back into its socket. The last two chips you need to
change are the two RAM chips. Put the 4464 chips into the sockets at
locations U11 and U12 on the motherboard.
Now you need to install 3 wires to complete the mod. The first wire should
be connected between pin 3 of the 74LS158 at location U5, and pin 20
of the parallel bus on the 600XL. The second wire should be connected between
pin 10 of the 74LS158 at location U6, and pin 18 of the parallel bus.
The third wire connects between pin 9 of the 74S32 at location U18, and
pin 45 on the parallel bus. That's all there is to it.
==============================================================================
Russell Gladden
moon!cyber...@well.sf.ca.us
DiskComm3.2 wouldn't write it properly... Oh well... hmm... wait.. were
you taking about AW, or AW+? Hmm...
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| / |\
| H E \ Y B E R |/ E N [ phbill@<watch this space> (Bill kendrick) ]
The CyberDen accepts liability or responsibility for no one-You're on your own.
moon!cyber...@well.sf.ca.us
> display memory built in, and has its own composite output jack. -Stan
I'm wondering... what type of handler does it use?? I can see changing
the "E:" subroutine... (I have a print spooler that re-writes the "P:"
handler), but that would mean loading software each time you want to use
it.. hmm
Jeff McWilliams
Yes, you have to load some kind of new XEP80 handler when you want to
access it, as it rewrites E:. The Atari handler also rewrites P: to give
you access to the XEP80's printer port. This is why the XEP80 won't work
with programs like Printshop, that BOOT without going to DOS, because you can't
load the driver. The printer port is also not accessible from Sparta-X
because SD-X's XEP80 driver is a screen driver only.
Daisy Dot III despite all my fooling around would also not work properly
with the Atari XEP80 handler, it couldn't recognize the printer port.
What needs to be done is an alternate OS written with the driver in ROM,
so it would be guaranteed to work ALL the TIME.
moon!cyber...@well.sf.ca.us
I am wondering how exactly the xep80 works, with the Atari's constantly
"jumping" screen.. If, say, I had text on the top of the screen, and
then a line or two of static text, that is POKEd or something, NOT
calling the E: handler or PRINT procedure, and this text was in a
different area of memory than the rest of the screen (using a DL jump),
would the xep80 work??? Thanx
PS. was that message to me??
^^
\ bill
News system owner ID
>(Re: XEP80 not working w/ software)
>I am wondering how exactly the xep80 works, with the Atari's constantly
>"jumping" screen.. If, say, I had text on the top of the screen, and
>then a line or two of static text, that is POKEd or something, NOT
>calling the E: handler or PRINT procedure, and this text was in a
>different area of memory than the rest of the screen (using a DL jump),
>would the xep80 work??? Thanx
No, the XEP80 does not see "pokes" to screen memory, nor is it
programmable with DLIs; it is mostly like a dumb terminal. The
supplied driver only activates when there are I/O calls through the E:
S: or P: handlers. The screen memory remains there, though, and there
is an XIO call that switches back to Antic graphics.
It does have one graphics mode, though, is it 320x200? I think so.
Monochrome only, no gray levels. It is invoked by a GR.8 BASIC
directive or an XIO, but is not supported with drawto or fill
commands; just byte data output. The only sw I have seen using it is
a routine done by Mat Ratcliff to display picture files. I don't know
which format.
-Stan
Jeff McWilliams
The XEP80 uses the E: handler only. If you try to poke some data into
what is called Screen RAM, it won't show up on the screen.
The xep80 only intercepts proper calls to E: and S: and sends this to the
monitor. You end up with two video outputs, the video from your computer,
and the video from the xep80. Most people build a switch going to one monitor
so that you see either the 40 column standard screen when it's being used,
or you see the 80 column screen when you are doing XEP80 stuff, like using
Bobterm or Atariwriter 80, or whatever.
I think the only way you could intermingle the two displays would be to
take Michael St. Pierre's Genlock board, feed the XEP80 back to the genlock
input, and then the final mixed signal could go to one monitor. One catch,
the Atari XEP80 doesn't allow you to access the 40 column screen AT ALL
when you load it's handler. The Sparta-X does. In fact one stupid thing
about Sparta-X is that Flashback half pokes to memory, half writes to E:,
so you never can see the whole picture.
Michael Current
..as we stry still further from the subject..
Didn't we decide that BASIC XE on the XEP80 under SpartaDOS X doesn't
work? It does!!
Well, _I_ didn't think it would work, and was shocked when it did. :)
Jeff McWilliams
I'D be very interested in the details of how you got BXE working with
SD-X and XEP80!!
Jeff McWilliams
Michael Kieras
>I think the only way you could intermingle the two displays would be to
>take Michael St. Pierre's Genlock board, feed the XEP80 back to the genlock
>input, and then the final mixed signal could go to one monitor. One catch,
Jeff,
Could you post information about the genlock board you mentioned above?
Long before the current ranges of 16 and 32-bit computers were out, before
there was a genlock for any personal computer, I wanted one for my 8-bit
(though of course I didn't know what one would be called). Any information
on capabilities, pricing, and availability would be appreciated.
Michael Kieras
mic...@cs.umass.edu
Craig Rothman
> I tried to backup my Atariwriter+ (mainly to fiddle with it), but nooo!
> DiskComm3.2 wouldn't write it properly... Oh well... hmm... wait.. were
> you taking about AW, or AW+? Hmm...
>
> ______________________________415_472_5527__V32/V42bis__Cyberdustrial Mayhem_
> | / |\
> | H E \ Y B E R |/ E N [ phbill@<watch this space> (Bill kendrick) ]
>
> The CyberDen accepts liability or responsibility for no one-You're on your ow
Geez, Ive made backup copies at will of Atariwriter +...
TRy using scopy and spartados... IT will work.
moon!cyber...@well.sf.ca.us
DiskComm (would've been interesting) and MyDOS's copy. I wonder, is
there a patch anywhere that can be added to AW+ that'll let it view all
>4< digits of MyDOS's disk directory. Also, how about a >q<uit command
(back to dos.) I almost ALWAYS [L]oad AUTORUN.SYS on AW+ from MyDOS.
Thanks for any help!
Bill
______________________________415_472_5527__V32/V42bis__Cyberdustrial Mayhem__
| / |\
| H E \ Y B E R |/ E N [ moon!cyberden!phb...@well.sf.ca.us ]
The CyberDen accepts liability or responsibility for no one-You're on your own.
Gerald Washington
is better? I happen to have both machines, but I never use them since I
have an Amiga 500, too =).
-- Gerald
etx...@garbo.ericsson.se
I can think of one thing that makes the 600XL better than the 800XL.
Its size. A 600XL (with built-in 64k upgrade) occupies less space on
the desktop than an 800XL.
Anders Skelander
Jeff McWilliams
>
> I can think of one thing that makes the 600XL better than the 800XL.
>Its size. A 600XL (with built-in 64k upgrade) occupies less space on
>the desktop than an 800XL.
>
> Anders Skelander
Yes, and even after you add the Monitor upgrade,and a 128K upgrade
it will be easier to fit in say, a Tower case or something,
than any other 8 bit would. And you can still hook up your Black Box
or MIO and run hard drives, and floppies, and everything else.
I just wish you could go beyond 128K with it. As it is, it is too small
almost. typing on it seems to really hurt my wrists, and of course the
keyboard isn't too hot either. The 800XL is a little better, but
still I am enjoying my 1200XL while my 800Xl is down, the keyboard
is so nice, even almost as good as my IBM keyboard hooked up to my
800XL.
Jeff McWilliams