Opinions wanted - .xex or .atr for binaries?
Damfino
to the TOSEC Atari 8bit database, and we're trying to decide the best
way to deal with individual binary-file games. Currently, some have
been converted to .atr format with the MakeATR utility (ie, K-Boot),
while many more currently exist in a very old executable-only TOSEC
database. Apparently Atari800Win (and others?) recognize an .xex
format, which would be for an Atari 8bit executable. There are two
options:
1) Convert everything to .ATRs. The advantage is that there will be
one listing for everything, so if someone's looking for a specific
game, they won't have to check both the .atr and the .xex collections.
Another advantage is that this will allow people to keep their
existing binary-to-atr conversions. The disadvantage is that if
someone wants to have the executable by itself, it will need to be
re-converted back to a .exe file. (The filenames will say which
programs are conversions.)
2) Have two distinct databases, one for .ATRs and one for .XEXs. The
advantage is that everything will be in its native format. The
disadvantages are that there will be two places to check if you're
looking for a specific game (though I suppose you could leave both in
one directory, but it wouldn't work if you zip everything to
individual files), and that if someone already has programs that have
been converted, they will be "unknown" and it might be confusing to an
Atari newbie why they used to be recognized but aren't anymore.
I was originally in favor of option 1 but I'm starting to waver, so I
thought I'd do a quick informal poll of the community and see what you
all think. How would you like to see this done?
Janka Gerhard
> I was originally in favor of option 1 but I'm starting to waver, so I
> thought I'd do a quick informal poll of the community and see what you
> all think. How would you like to see this done?
Since recent emulators can directly load executables there's no real
need for option 1 anymore. So I vote for option 2.
Gerhard
switchblade
"Damfino" <dam...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ef53b03c.02051...@posting.google.com...
I would like to see everything as an ATR. It makes it so much easier if
everything is in one format!
And its easier to use an ATR from a real Atari using APE etc, can just boot
the disk rather than have to mess about with DOS menus.
To be honest things are already a mess, the last version of the TOSEC db had
stuff in DCM format ATR firmat and there were EXE's and BINs in amongst that
lot!
Gordon Abbot
> To be honest things are already a mess, the last version of the TOSEC db had
> stuff in DCM format ATR firmat and there were EXE's and BINs in amongst that
> lot!
What is DCM format associated with?
GA
--
My address is spoofed, so do not reply directly.
DunxUK
>
>GA
DiskCoMmunicator. Fantastic package! :o)
Damfino
> stuff in DCM format ATR firmat and there were EXE's and BINs in amongst that
> lot!
Apparently you haven't seen the current version of the TOSEC db. :)
I did a TON of work cleaning it up (I didn't do the original), head
over to TOSEC's site and check the "Atari 8bit Games - ATR" database
to see the current state. I think you'll find it a huge improvement.
No more DCMs, XFDs, etc; all names follow the "TOSEC Naming
Convention"; and it recognizes a lot more stuff.
I guess it comes down to emulators vs using APE... if you're using
emulators, the .xex files are great, if you're using APE, they're a
pain in the neck, and as soon as you stick a bunch into a megaboot
disk to run through APE, you lose all the info that's in the long
filename...
The other option is to have databases for both, but that's incredibly
redundant, and pointless unless a particular game will only work as an
executable and not as an ATR conversion. But, if you go by the idea
that the DBs are help to organize what you already have (instead of
using them as a checklist for collecting all the games - but no one
does that, riiiiight?), then that might be helpful...
Edward S. Baiz Jr.
>Hi folks, I've got another fellow now helping me with the next update
>to the TOSEC Atari 8bit database, and we're trying to decide the best
>way to deal with individual binary-file games. Currently, some have
>been converted to .atr format with the MakeATR utility (ie, K-Boot),
>while many more currently exist in a very old executable-only TOSEC
>database. Apparently Atari800Win (and others?) recognize an .xex
>format, which would be for an Atari 8bit executable. There are two
>options:
>
>1) Convert everything to .ATRs. The advantage is that there will be
>one listing for everything, so if someone's looking for a specific
>game, they won't have to check both the .atr and the .xex collections.
>Another advantage is that this will allow people to keep their
>existing binary-to-atr conversions. The disadvantage is that if
>someone wants to have the executable by itself, it will need to be
>re-converted back to a .exe file. (The filenames will say which
>programs are conversions.)
I like this idea. I can always convert the ATR to DI images and use
them with my 8-bit peripheral emulator. I also have programs that can
extract the raw files out if I so choose.
Edward S. Baiz Jr.
(Gamer)
------------------------------------------------------
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switchblade
I use the emulator on the Dreamcast but also use a real Atari with ATR's.
ATR is definitely favourite for me.
I prefer to use the ATR's on the emulator also. I am at present working my
way through the ATR's documenting what works and what doesn't for use on a
DC emulator site. I won't be doing the same task again on EXE's!
Please keep us informed of what you do :)
Janka Gerhard
> I am at present working my
> way through the ATR's documenting what works and what doesn't for use on a
> DC emulator site.
Sorry for getting slightly off topic but I'm wondering how many people
did that same task before.
Some time ago I dumped part of my own collection to ATRs and in addition
downloaded some archives from the web. I spent quite some time comparing
versions and writing down emulator switches needed to get the files
working. One problem was that with only one minute per game on one hand
you don't really know whether it would be fully functional to the end
and on the other hand even with that one minute it takes quite some
time to check several thousand files. So after maybe twothousand files
and an unsuccessful attempt to share the task with others I gave up.
Anyway good luck for your try
Gerhard
Damfino
Well, at this point, the TOSEC databases tell you what works in
Atari800Win - if it doesn't work, it's marked as a bad dump but kept
around in case it is a problem with the emulator. So far, it looks
like the compatabilty rate is extremely high so it's really not a
problem. I wouldn't think it'd be worth documentating what does and
doesn't work with the DC emulator, since it's an ongoing project and
theoretically after a few revisions it should be able to match the
Windows version for compatability.
BTW, I got an email from someone who was having trouble finding the
current TOSEC Atari 8bit db - it's on this page:
http://tosec.retrogames.com/index.php?sect=database&s=all
The one you're looking for it Atari 8bit Games - ATR. It's also
included with the distribution of TUGID, their ROM manager, though a
couple of the unusual flags confuse it a little bit.
Well, so far the majority seem to be in favor of making everything an
ATR file... that seems to be the best overall solution in my opinion,
and since they'll be marked with a (file) tag in the filename, it
should be easy enough for anyone who wants to to seperate them out and
convert them back to .exes...
Guy Ferrante
I dont like wasting space and thats what would happen if you do just that.
There are lots of util's that will make a ATR file and insert your xex or
com files, then just look for a 3 sector file loader.
Atari8man
"switchblade" <x...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:KoqE8.291990$r_2.2...@news.easynews.com...
Mo
Mo
Guy Ferrante wrote in message ...
Damfino
Wasting space?
We're talking about 494 bytes here! Half a K. I think the increase in
space is more than offset by the increase in managability and ease of
use with any emulator... there are reasons to consider not using ATRs
but I think space is pretty low on the list.
switchblade
Yes the email was from me :)
Rick Cortese
>I dont like wasting space and thats what would happen if you do just that.
>There are lots of util's that will make a ATR file and insert your xex or
>com files, then just look for a 3 sector file loader.
I thought the minimum allocation size for an IBM file was something like 32k
now. That is, 3 separate 4k-8k games will take up 96k of disk space.
Mo
Mo
Rick Cortese wrote in message ...
Rick Cortese
news:YulF8.22749$MK1.3039201419@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> Wouldn't that be with a FAT32 file system or does that matter?
I *think* FAT32 only uses 4k as a minimum file size/allocation unit. I'm
pretty sure you only get into huge allocation units with more modern
versions of Windows with big drives.
My W2000 Pro system is down or I would cross check. It's just a right click
on a small file and scroll down to properties.
Damfino
FWIW, on my XP Pro system here at work, a 528 byte log file takes up
4.0k on a 20 gig NTFS partition, so 4k allocation units would make
sense. So, the extra <500 bytes that the MakeATR programs adds will in
most cases make no difference at all in disk space used up. :)
rt...@juno.com
"Damfino" <dam...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ef53b03c.02051...@posting.google.com...
Damfino
wrote:
>Why not use one for Rev. A OS & the other for XL/XE OS ?
There are already flags in the filenames to indicate which games
require OSb. For example:
Ghost Hunter (19xx)(Arcade Plus)[OSb].atr
(I love Ghost Hunter... one of my all-time favorites, I'll have to dig
out my instruction manual to see if it has a year on it...)
mad ATARI user alternate
one of the few clones better than the original. Man, I'd love to see
Atari type games come back. ;)
Damfino <dam...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message news:<ethleusvm2fl13no9...@4ax.com>...