Ben Poehland v. Micromiser Software
Steve Thornton
From: Steve Thornton, Pres.
Micromiser Software
In 1993 - 1994, Ben Poehland posted several messages to this group
trashing me personally, though still saying some nice things about our
software. Since it looks like these messages will come up forever, I
need to post my side of this story.
I first became aware of these messages a few years ago. I attempted a
search for a way to contact Ben so that possibly we could straighten
this out between us, now that we are older and wiser. I did not find a
way, though I didn't spend a lot of time.
Long after the 8-bit Atari market was dead, long after having sold or
receiving any support requests for 8-bit software, and long after I
had forgotten about these 8-bit products, I received a call from Ben.
He informed me that one program, Turbofile, was a great program and
that a lot of loyal 8-bit Atari users would still like to use it. This
was news to me, but of course I was flattered.
Ben wondered if he could acquire the rights, etc. to the program and
distribute it, including as I recall, the source files. Well the
"rights" were worth zero to anyone at that time. But I wanted to be
compensated for my time to dust off one of the 8-bits to see if it
would still work, find the disks in the garage, find the disks with
the latest source files, and see if I could put something together
that would still work as intended. Even fixing the one bug ever found
in that program (but for which there was a work-around).
I estimated the hours this would take and gave Ben a figure based on
these hours X my support rate at that time. That amounted to $600 or
$800 as I recall, but could have been half or double that. In any
case, that was fine with him. I don't know if Ben said at that point
that he would like me to sign a contract, but if he did I would have
said Ok.
I then spent a few hours dusting of the Ataris, etc., and finding all
the resources for this program and verifying that I had something that
would work. I think part the time I had estimated included commenting
source files. I assume so because it wouldn't be worth much without
those. These 8-bit programs were all cryptic as hell trying to jam
everything into 32K, and comments gobbled too much room to be included
in the source code. Of course the code read like English to me at the
time I was still supporting it. I would need to create a separate file
for this. Well, so far, considering my time I was a few hundred
dollars in the hole already. But I saw in my files that Ben was a
customer years before that, and he sounded pretty dedicated and legit
to me, so no problem.
As I recall, I next received a contract that no software developer in
their right mind would sign. Ben had spent days writing this,
according to him, and I'm sure everything sounded perfectly reasonable
to him. But Micromiser would have legal liabilities. I don't recall
anything like the limits of liability you see all the time in
software, like limiting incidental and consequential damages, etc. I
think there were one or two other problems, i.e. some sort of
liability for Micromiser, which I would have addressed, but can't
remember. In any case, our deal did not compensate Micromiser for any
liability, or any time beyond the activities I've described. After the
exchange of resources, that was supposed to be the end of it. If there
were no contract, it wouldn't have been an issue. But Ben wanted a
contract, and that made it an issue.
Well, the part about the contract was fine with me, though I had never
had a contract for anything this minor before. I could understand how
Ben would worry about this or that, as it seemed the first time for
him. By that time I had run a home building business, a Nightclub,
and a software company. I had lots of experience with contracts. In
any original contract for one particular deal, it is routine and
expected for it to go back and forth a number of times, as any lawyer
or experienced business operator will tell you. (It was apparent to me
that Ben was neither, though I can't know for sure). So I made a few
changes or added provisions (I think Ben said three or so), and sent
it back. It may have gone back and forth one more time, I can't
remember. Now by this time, I'm more hours in the hole on this deal,
but that's ok, everything's going along nicely in my mind.
Then, as I recall, I received a letter (or whatever) that amounted to
a tirade from Ben about how great his contract was, how much time he
spent on it, and how (pick any nasty word you like) I was to question
it or want to change it. And if it did go back and forth a second
time, he wanted to revert to the original and have me sign it with no
changes whatsoever -- that part I will never forget.
Well, I don't know if I got steamed at this point, but I don't think I
did. But one thing was for sure: I wasn't going to sign that original
contract and then worry about lawsuits (or whatever other liability)
from then on - with no compensation for same. Well, that was it for
Ben too, because he evidently wasn't going to do business unless I
signed his contract, in his words, without making any changes. Fat
chance of me, or any business owner anywhere, of ever doing that. Ask
any lawyer. This is just not how you do business.
Ok, at that point or shortly thereafter I was steamed. I had spent a
lot of time, and had considerable enthusiasm, only to find out I had
to sign this contract written by an amateur without being able to
revise anything or add any provisions of my own. That was the end of
the matter for me. I wouldn't communicate with Ben on any subject
after that, just more wasted time in my mind. Whether words were said,
I can't remember. I don't think I said anything to make the situation
(and I'm sure Ben would have mentioned it if I did).
Ben has also posted that Micromiser had an agreement with ICD. What I
had was a phone conversation with Tom Harker where he said, Ok go
ahead and send one of those SpartDOS files out, no big deal. It was
very casual and I trusted Tom to remember it and not to go back on it.
Well, there was no reason for him too. I explained that to Ben. This
is one thing I remember. It was clear that if he needed that file, and
if he needed assurance about it, he would have to contact Tom himself.
Now that I think about it, this may have been one of the provisions
that I couldn't accept, i.e. obligating ICD to something.
I'm recalling this as best I can. That was many years ago. But the
substance of it is correct, and if you read Ben's own posts carefully,
you'll see I had no motive to act as he says, but quite to the
contrary. He says himself that he worked for a week on a contract that
I would not sign. That alone should be enough for anyone with business
experience to see the problem originating at his end.
I would like to point out that all messages from all posters were
generally complimentary to both our software, support, and myself,
including reviews (as I recall) specifically praising our support,
which is and always has been our hallmark. Thank you!
I would also like to thank every 8-bit Atari user everywhere for using
our products, and for so long! It is a great feeling! Believe me when
I say I had no idea whatever that so many people still had an interest
in our products as late as 1994. I would have taken a lot better care
of those disks. But I had no such feedback, and was not reading
newsgroups at the time.
Also, if there is any Atari user anywhere still using one of our Atari
products, copy them freely and do whatever you like with them! They
make great frisbees too! I would have said this in 1994 as well if I
had known about the persistent interest. Though I still would have
charged for support time if that was required.
Thanks for reading my piece. Ben, if you're out there, I sincerely
apologize for anything I said that offended you. Believe me it was not
my intention. I would like to make up with you if that is possible.
Steve Thornton, Pres.
Micromiser Software
Keywords: turbobase, turboword, turbofile, XP80, XP-80
Russ Gilbert
freely distributable.
Ben hasn't been seen or heard of in this group for years. He could
be lurking, but I think he just lost interest.
Russg
Paul Irvine
wrote:
>That's great news that Micromiser Software for the A8 is now
>freely distributable.
Yep, nice one Steve...
--
Paul
Mathy van Nisselroy
> Also, if there is any Atari user anywhere still using one of our Atari
> products, copy them freely and do whatever you like with them! They
> make great frisbees too!
Thanks for informing us. I guess Ben did have his share of problems back
when he ran Atari Classics on his own.
BTW this goes for both TurboWord and TurboFile? Do they need SpartaDOS?
CU Mathy van Nisselroy
TXG
Can someone send me this software? I am looking for this for years!
Contact me so I can put it on my FTP server...
Thx.
TXG/MNX
"Mathy van Nisselroy" <mathy.van...@post.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in
message news:afs8ik$fcl$2...@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE...
Steve Thornton
I can't believe you guys are still using those 8-bits including these
Micromiser programs. But of course that's great!
Besides the 8-bit programs Turbobase, Turbofile, Turboword being
completely in the public domain, this also applies to a program
for the ST called Ultrabase. Do anything you want with these
programs, disks, etc.
By the way, from 1985 thru about 1997 (??) a company in Orlando,
Ace Rubber Stamp, used Turbobase on three
8-bit Ataris on a sneaker network, and were very happy with it
thoughout! One was a point-of-sale station, and customers would
marvel at this setup. They weren't hobbyists either - just saving
money and not upgrading while what they had worked fine. Invoicing,
receivables, billing statements, etc.
I can't remember if any programs require SpartaDOS. As best I recall
they don't. I think SpartDOS gave you more disk capacity like
a whopping 180k or something (see how vague I am on this).
I think that would only have been a big issue with Turbobase.
Then I recall something about a 256K ramdrive - yes that was
the big thing, from ICD.
That 32K was mostly used up with background stuff, so you had like
an 8K slice to move this big program through a piece at a time. So
the ramdrive would be the key. It was a programming nightmare but
also a great challenge and a lot of fun!
I'm sorry Ben Poehland is gone from the Atari community. For the record,
I think he was honest and well-intentioned with me, and didn't post any
facts that were untrue. I wouldn't want our little problem to take away
from his general contributions, which I think kept Atari going longer
that it would have otherwise. The more I think about it, I keep coming
back to that thing with ICD where I had verbal permission to send
some files, and couldn't transfer that to him in any legal
way, and I think at some point he decided that was crucial. The rest
was probably just a result of that frustration. But whatever file(s)
those were, they could be gotten off any SpartDOS disk.
Steve Thornton
Micromiser Software
Thomas Havemeister
<t...@the-underground.myweb.nl> wrote:
>Can someone send me this software? I am looking for this for years!
>Contact me so I can put it on my FTP server...
yap, this would be nice :-)
bye sez
\thomsen
--
Sturz des Zaren & Take those Atarian care!
Thomas Havemeister, Student of Commercial Information Technology
Technical University of Ilmenau
Mathy van Nisselroy
> I can't believe you guys are still using those 8-bits including these
> Micromiser programs. But of course that's great!
I don't have your software, but I liked what the ads said.
How about this one, my XEGS has 1MB (I'm still working to get the kinks out
of this. It's my own design. No loss of software control over anything
Atari once stuffed in there and no funky addresses. For now, it only works
on my XEGS). On my other XE's I'm using a BlackBox with FloppyBoard to
access: 2 3.5" drives, 1 5.25" drive, 1 80MB harddisk, 1 ZIP drive and 1
CD-ROM. I can really read data CD's yet, but there is software that will
play Audio CD's. Check out my site at
http://www-users.rwth-aachen.de/mathy.van_nisselroy
> Besides the 8-bit programs Turbobase, Turbofile, Turboword being
> completely in the public domain, this also applies to a program
> for the ST called Ultrabase. Do anything you want with these
> programs, disks, etc.
Thanks!!!
> By the way, from 1985 thru about 1997 (??) a company in Orlando,
> Ace Rubber Stamp, used Turbobase on three
> 8-bit Ataris on a sneaker network, and were very happy with it
> thoughout! One was a point-of-sale station, and customers would
> marvel at this setup. They weren't hobbyists either - just saving
> money and not upgrading while what they had worked fine. Invoicing,
> receivables, billing statements, etc.
Sounds nice. But what's a sneaker network?
> I can't remember if any programs require SpartaDOS. As best I recall
> they don't. I think SpartDOS gave you more disk capacity like
> a whopping 180k or something (see how vague I am on this).
> I think that would only have been a big issue with Turbobase.
> Then I recall something about a 256K ramdrive - yes that was
> the big thing, from ICD.
Can it use any kind of RAMdisk? Does your software auto detect the size and
bank sequence of the available RAM?
It's a good thing it doesn't need SpartaDOS, as I don't like it.
CU Mathy van Nisselroy
PS thanks again for releasing your software into the Public Domain. If you
find source code or whatever, I'ld be happy to put it on my website.
Rainer Gambo
> But what's a sneaker network?
This means, that you put your Adidas shoes on and transport floppy disks
from one computer to the other.
Nowadays in the PC world better known in the form of sneaker
administration - you have a network, but the administrator has to run
around and do baby sitting for each and every PC. The horrible thing is,
that nobody seems to know how to do it better, at least in the windoze
world. OS/2 and unix administrators laugh about their M$ colleagues.
CU/2 eRGo
