RGB to VGA on a IIGS (again)
mcp...@yahoo.com
any new RGB to VGA upscaling converters out that were particularly
good for this task. The XRGB-2 is no longer available (and was
pricey).
I would like to do RGB rather than composite to VGA with a GS and a
viewsonic LCD.
James
Bryan Parkoff
news:1182557664....@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Well, someone and I are working with GSE-Reactice to test RGB to VGA
converter for Apple IIgs. It will be posted in the newsgroups couple weeks
later.
Bryan Parkoff
James McP
> <mcph...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Awesome. I guess I can get by on composite until then!
Michael J. Mahon
Right--if you start with composite, then the result can never be
any better than that, no matter what format you convert to.
-michael
NadaNet file server for Apple II computers!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."
mdj
> mcph...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I know this has been asked before, but I was wondering if there were
> > any new RGB to VGA upscaling converters out that were particularly
> > good for this task. The XRGB-2 is no longer available (and was
> > pricey).
>
> > I would like to do RGB rather than composite to VGA with a GS and a
> > viewsonic LCD.
>
> Right--if you start with composite, then the result can never be
> any better than that, no matter what format you convert to.
The 'simple' solution is to use an LCD TV with a SCART input on it,
and use Roger's IIgs->RGB cable. The results will depend on the
quality of the TV.
I tried this a while back with my TV (A 32" model, a bit inconvenient
placing atop an Apple II) and the results were quite acceptable. On my
Apple II though, I've now decided to regress to a green phosphor
monochrome display. For a non-gamer, this gives the best possible
results, but I would certainly like to find a small LCD TV that worked
well.
Matt
Bryan Parkoff
"mdj" <mdj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182580110....@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
I would be surprised to see Video (NTSC) to VGA Converter at
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/video-vga-gvm-2000.html. I am sure 80
column is unreadable on VGA screen unless digital filter is used isntead of
analog. Do you agree?
Bryan Parkoff
mdj
> "mdj" <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1182580110....@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jun 23, 3:57 pm, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> mcph...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> > I know this has been asked before, but I was wondering if there were
> >> > any new RGB to VGA upscaling converters out that were particularly
> >> > good for this task. The XRGB-2 is no longer available (and was
> >> > pricey).
>
> >> > I would like to do RGB rather than composite to VGA with a GS and a
> >> > viewsonic LCD.
>
> >> Right--if you start with composite, then the result can never be
> >> any better than that, no matter what format you convert to.
>
> > The 'simple' solution is to use an LCD TV with a SCART input on it,
> > and use Roger's IIgs->RGB cable. The results will depend on the
> > quality of the TV.
>
> > I tried this a while back with my TV (A 32" model, a bit inconvenient
> > placing atop an Apple II) and the results were quite acceptable. On my
> > Apple II though, I've now decided to regress to a green phosphor
> > monochrome display. For a non-gamer, this gives the best possible
> > results, but I would certainly like to find a small LCD TV that worked
> > well.
>
> column is unreadable on VGA screen unless digital filter is used isntead of
> analog. Do you agree?
I'd imagine pretty much all these converters use some form of digital
storage.
80 column text tends to look a little odd, with alternate scanlines
interpreting the pixel widths slightly differently. Readable, but not
particularly clear.
What's needed is a converter that can lock onto the Apple II's dot
clock...
Matt
Bryan Parkoff
Matt,
I agree. What if I want to use NTSC to VGA Frame Grabber? I would want
to capture 80 column TEXT and double high resolution screen into JPG / BMP
format, but NTSC to VGA frame grabber picture may not look great like Video
to VGA converter. You stated like 80 column text tends to look a little
odd. It might does the same to do with double high resolution. What do you
think? NTSC to VGA Frame Grabber is shown on
http://www.sensoray.com/products/2250data.htm.
Bryan Parkoff
rebocardo
switches. I have one. I just have to see if I have the correct cables.
Michael J. Mahon
The issue is how the composite video is decoded, and what the bandwidth
of the resulting luminance signal is. For NTSC decoding, it is almost
impossible to preserve a luminance bandwidth of more than 3.5MHz, which
isn't enough for good 80-column text. Your monochrome monitor no doubt
has (luminance, of course!) bandwidth exceeding 10MHz.
The AppleColor Composite monitor, when in monochrome mode, switches its
luminance bandwidth to about 8MHz--a capability almost unique in
composite video processing, even in the digital age.
> 80 column text tends to look a little odd, with alternate scanlines
> interpreting the pixel widths slightly differently. Readable, but not
> particularly clear.
This is a result an interaction between the monitor's sampling of
what it thinks is an interlaced video signal, but isn't.
> What's needed is a converter that can lock onto the Apple II's dot
> clock...
Bingo!
Michael J. Mahon
Seems pretty expensive, given the abundance of 720x480 NTSC video
capture devices on the market--usually for less than $70, and often
bundled with low-end video editing (and frame capture) software.
Bryan Parkoff
"Michael J. Mahon" <mjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:avmdnR-b66K3L-Db...@comcast.com...
Michael,
It looks like NTSC to VGA Frame Grabber costs $266.00 and capture only
640x480. Do you think that it is better than other NTSC to VGA Frame
GRabber for just less than $70?
Bryan Parkoff
mdj
It's a lovely old Sanyo unit that looks wonderfully retro beside the
pinball machines downstairs :-) Bandwidth is 14Mhz, so yes it produces
a very clean picture.
> The AppleColor Composite monitor, when in monochrome mode, switches its
> luminance bandwidth to about 8MHz--a capability almost unique in
> composite video processing, even in the digital age.
I love my AppleColor Composites too, but I'm finding my eyes are
starting to struggle with long exposure to anything less that pristine
text. Whether this is a function of getting old, or a side effect of
now spending so much time in front of higher quality displays I'm not
sure :-)
> > 80 column text tends to look a little odd, with alternate scanlines
> > interpreting the pixel widths slightly differently. Readable, but not
> > particularly clear.
>
> This is a result an interaction between the monitor's sampling of
> what it thinks is an interlaced video signal, but isn't.
I figured it'd be something like that, or alternatively it's that the
upsampling algorithm is very simplistic and doesn't cope at all well
with the Apple II's slightly odd clock rate.
Lee Cremeans
Since this has come up again, I have to wonder: Why not use S-video for
this, since practically everything supports it and it can do the higher
luma bandwidths easily? This would be somewhat difficult on an original
II or a IIc, since they're hardwired for analog, but the IIgs already
has a RGB->NTSC converter in it (the MC1377P in the back) that could
easily be tapped in the right places to get the raw luma and chroma out
(IIRC chroma is on pin 9). (The Video Turtle, from what I can tell, was
just a second MC1377P in a nice box that fit on the RGB port.)
I've been wanting to try it on my own IIgs, but I haven't had the time
or the space in my room.
-lee
Michael J. Mahon
Not necessarily. The only thing we know for sure is that it costs more.
Many recently designed video capture devices are based on new highly
integrated MPEG encoder chips, and produce better results than older
more costly solutions.
It might be worth checking some video reviews to see how they perform.
Michael J. Mahon
I know the Sanyo monitor--it's a fine unit.
The symptom of marginal bandwidth in a text display is that the
vertical parts of characters are dimmer than the horizontal parts.
>>The AppleColor Composite monitor, when in monochrome mode, switches its
>>luminance bandwidth to about 8MHz--a capability almost unique in
>>composite video processing, even in the digital age.
>
>
> I love my AppleColor Composites too, but I'm finding my eyes are
> starting to struggle with long exposure to anything less that pristine
> text. Whether this is a function of getting old, or a side effect of
> now spending so much time in front of higher quality displays I'm not
> sure :-)
I used a monochrome monitor for programming for years, with a 10" TV
for color, but a few years back, I set up an AppleColor Composite and
it was good enough that I never bothered to set up a monochrome monitor
in addition.
It helps that I keep my monitor behind my "open faced" Apple //e, so
when I'm in position to type, my outstretched arm can barely touch
the monitor screen more than two feet away. At that working distance,
the dot structure of the shadow mask is not distracting.
>>>80 column text tends to look a little odd, with alternate scanlines
>>>interpreting the pixel widths slightly differently. Readable, but not
>>>particularly clear.
>>
>>This is a result an interaction between the monitor's sampling of
>>what it thinks is an interlaced video signal, but isn't.
>
>
> I figured it'd be something like that, or alternatively it's that the
> upsampling algorithm is very simplistic and doesn't cope at all well
> with the Apple II's slightly odd clock rate.
Actually, some multiple of the color subcarrier frequency is a quite
rational choice for sampling frequency, but that doesn't match the usual
640- or 720-pixel value.
The active time of the Apple II video line is 40/1.0205 microseconds,
while the active time of a standard NTSC signal is 52.6 microseconds,
for an NTSC-to-Apple II ratio of about 1.34:1.
So the number of NTSC horizontal pixels corresponding to 280 Apple
pixels is about 375, and to 560 Apple pixels, 750. The equivalent
resolution for 640 pixel SHR mode is 858 pixels. So none of the
"usual" VGA-derived resolutions correspond well with Apple resolutions.
The result is a "beat" between the sampling frequency and the Apple
pixel clock. For a 640-pixel NTSC sampling, the sampler "lines up"
with an Apple pixel about every 10 "280-pixel" pixels, or about
every 20 "560-pixel" pixels. This should result in a quite visible
pattern of vertical stripes with those spatial frequencies.
The fact that your sampling alignment changes from even to odd lines
is the tipoff that it's interlace (or the absence of interlace)
related.
Michael J. Mahon
I agree--S-video would be a very straightforward approach for the IIgs.
Note, though, that even S-video limits the bandwidth of chrominance
signals by subcarrier modulation. This means that isolated color pixels
would lose saturation in comparison with RGB, but this would only be
noticeable in certain situations (like a colored starfield).
Just today, I was reminded of this problem as I was viewing a Star Wars
movie through an S-video connection. As the canonical opening text
scrolls into infinity, it quickly loses its golden color, becoming first
pale, and then essentially white as its size decreases.
This is a good argument for HDMI, component video, or RGB, that any
home theater owner can appreciate!
Lee Cremeans
True...though in my case, I'd mainly be working with 80-column text and
the SHR screen, where the colors aren't quite as important because there
just aren't that many to begin with. (Then again, I also have KEGS set
up on my Mac mini, which also helps, but sometimes you just have to play
with the real hardware.)
> This is a good argument for HDMI, component video, or RGB, that any
> home theater owner can appreciate!
I'd love to see someone finally make a proper YCrCb-out adapter for the
IIgs (even though I wouldn't get much use out of it since my LCDs are
computer monitors and can't do component). I know people have been
talking about it for years, but is anyone doing it?
-lee
Lee Cremeans
> mdj wrote:
>> On Jun 24, 9:48 am, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> mdj wrote:
>>>
[snip]
>>> The AppleColor Composite monitor, when in monochrome mode, switches its
>>> luminance bandwidth to about 8MHz--a capability almost unique in
>>> composite video processing, even in the digital age.
>>
>>
>> I love my AppleColor Composites too, but I'm finding my eyes are
>> starting to struggle with long exposure to anything less that pristine
>> text. Whether this is a function of getting old, or a side effect of
>> now spending so much time in front of higher quality displays I'm not
>> sure :-)
>
> I used a monochrome monitor for programming for years, with a 10" TV
> for color, but a few years back, I set up an AppleColor Composite and
> it was good enough that I never bothered to set up a monochrome monitor
> in addition.
>
One odd thing I tried recently (and this is drifting off-topic just a
tad, but it's still related) was plugging my IIc+ into my Sony Digital
Handycam (DCR-TRV340 if you're curious). The display on the swing-out
LCD is, well, horrible in 80-column mode (totally unreadable through the
rainbow swirlies), but on the mono eyepiece it's razor sharp, and even
over FireWire 80-column text is readable.
The only catch is that I have to have a project open in iMovie to see
the DV stream. I haven't found a workaround for that yet; most of
Apple's other tools assume you're going to record the stream straight to
disk rather than just monitor it. (If I knew which knob to pull in the
Cocoa API, I could just roll my own, but that'd be going *way* off-topic...)
-lee
schmidtd
> One odd thing I tried recently (and this is drifting off-topic just a
> tad, but it's still related) was plugging my IIc+ into my Sony Digital
> Handycam (DCR-TRV340 if you're curious). The display on the swing-out
> LCD is, well, horrible in 80-column mode (totally unreadable through the
> rainbow swirlies), but on the mono eyepiece it's razor sharp, and even
> over FireWire 80-column text is readable.
to show color (even when the color-killer is on... you can tell,
because the shadows are redish until you hit HGR, when they turn
greenish). But if I can fool them into going mono in one way or
another... the text is, as you say, razor-sharp. Momentary
disconnection/reconnection of the cable gives me a split-second of
bliss, for example. I wish I could tell my modern, super-smart LCD
monitors to just pretend they're B&W.
Michael J. Mahon
Interesting that they don't pay attention to the absence of color
burst!
schmidtd
> schmidtd wrote:
> > I wish I could tell my modern, super-smart LCD
> > monitors to just pretend they're B&W.
>
> Interesting that they don't pay attention to the absence of color
> burst!
and age?!? Why even dedicate circuitry to such a thing? :-)
mdj
> > I love my AppleColor Composites too, but I'm finding my eyes are
> > starting to struggle with long exposure to anything less that pristine
> > text. Whether this is a function of getting old, or a side effect of
> > now spending so much time in front of higher quality displays I'm not
> > sure :-)
>
> I used a monochrome monitor for programming for years, with a 10" TV
> for color, but a few years back, I set up an AppleColor Composite and
> it was good enough that I never bothered to set up a monochrome monitor
> in addition.
>
> It helps that I keep my monitor behind my "open faced" Apple //e, so
> when I'm in position to type, my outstretched arm can barely touch
> the monitor screen more than two feet away. At that working distance,
> the dot structure of the shadow mask is not distracting.
My physical layout is similar, but as I'm naturally far-sighted I can
see the effect. It's a little bit like when audiophiles talk of
'listening fatigue' ;-)
> >>>80 column text tends to look a little odd, with alternate scanlines
> >>>interpreting the pixel widths slightly differently. Readable, but not
> >>>particularly clear.
>
> >>This is a result an interaction between the monitor's sampling of
> >>what it thinks is an interlaced video signal, but isn't.
>
> > I figured it'd be something like that, or alternatively it's that the
> > upsampling algorithm is very simplistic and doesn't cope at all well
> > with the Apple II's slightly odd clock rate.
>
> Actually, some multiple of the color subcarrier frequency is a quite
> rational choice for sampling frequency, but that doesn't match the usual
> 640- or 720-pixel value.
>
> The active time of the Apple II video line is 40/1.0205 microseconds,
> while the active time of a standard NTSC signal is 52.6 microseconds,
> for an NTSC-to-Apple II ratio of about 1.34:1.
>
> So the number of NTSC horizontal pixels corresponding to 280 Apple
> pixels is about 375, and to 560 Apple pixels, 750. The equivalent
> resolution for 640 pixel SHR mode is 858 pixels. So none of the
> "usual" VGA-derived resolutions correspond well with Apple resolutions.
>
> The result is a "beat" between the sampling frequency and the Apple
> pixel clock. For a 640-pixel NTSC sampling, the sampler "lines up"
> with an Apple pixel about every 10 "280-pixel" pixels, or about
> every 20 "560-pixel" pixels. This should result in a quite visible
> pattern of vertical stripes with those spatial frequencies.
There is a *very* minor amout of this present on my display.
> The fact that your sampling alignment changes from even to odd lines
> is the tipoff that it's interlace (or the absence of interlace)
> related.
"Possibly" :-) The effect seems bound to Apple scanlines rather than
underlying video scanlines, so I figured it's related to limited luma
processing causing the shift in areas where there is only one lit
pixel, like vertical lines in the characters, a sort form of
simplistic anti-aliasing in the upscaling algorithm which is probably
quite effective for "video" signals, but less so for computer imagery.
I'd have to hook it back up and again and study it more closely to be
sure.
I think this problem will plague us indefinitely until either somebody
designs a custom solution, or physical display resolution becomes so
damn high than the effects disappear into the 'noise'
Matt
Michael J. Mahon
> On Jun 25, 8:05 pm, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>I love my AppleColor Composites too, but I'm finding my eyes are
>>>starting to struggle with long exposure to anything less that pristine
>>>text. Whether this is a function of getting old, or a side effect of
>>>now spending so much time in front of higher quality displays I'm not
>>>sure :-)
>>
>>I used a monochrome monitor for programming for years, with a 10" TV
>>for color, but a few years back, I set up an AppleColor Composite and
>>it was good enough that I never bothered to set up a monochrome monitor
>>in addition.
>>
>>It helps that I keep my monitor behind my "open faced" Apple //e, so
>>when I'm in position to type, my outstretched arm can barely touch
>>the monitor screen more than two feet away. At that working distance,
>>the dot structure of the shadow mask is not distracting.
>
>
> My physical layout is similar, but as I'm naturally far-sighted I can
> see the effect. It's a little bit like when audiophiles talk of
> 'listening fatigue' ;-)
Ah--there's the difference. For me, that distance falls into the
"too far, and yet too close" zone of my bifocals, so I see it with
a little pleasant blurring. ;-)
>>>>>80 column text tends to look a little odd, with alternate scanlines
>>>>>interpreting the pixel widths slightly differently. Readable, but not
>>>>>particularly clear.
>>
>>>>This is a result an interaction between the monitor's sampling of
>>>>what it thinks is an interlaced video signal, but isn't.
>>
>>>I figured it'd be something like that, or alternatively it's that the
>>>upsampling algorithm is very simplistic and doesn't cope at all well
>>>with the Apple II's slightly odd clock rate.
>>
>>Actually, some multiple of the color subcarrier frequency is a quite
>>rational choice for sampling frequency, but that doesn't match the usual
>>640- or 720-pixel value.
>>
>>The active time of the Apple II video line is 40/1.0205 microseconds,
>>while the active time of a standard NTSC signal is 52.6 microseconds,
>>for an NTSC-to-Apple II ratio of about 1.34:1.
>>
>>So the number of NTSC horizontal pixels corresponding to 280 Apple
>>pixels is about 375, and to 560 Apple pixels, 750. The equivalent
>>resolution for 640 pixel SHR mode is 858 pixels. So none of the
>>"usual" VGA-derived resolutions correspond well with Apple resolutions.
>>
>>The result is a "beat" between the sampling frequency and the Apple
>>pixel clock. For a 640-pixel NTSC sampling, the sampler "lines up"
>>with an Apple pixel about every 10 "280-pixel" pixels, or about
>>every 20 "560-pixel" pixels. This should result in a quite visible
>>pattern of vertical stripes with those spatial frequencies.
>
>
> There is a *very* minor amout of this present on my display.
Your monitor is doing a good job of supressing it.
>>The fact that your sampling alignment changes from even to odd lines
>>is the tipoff that it's interlace (or the absence of interlace)
>>related.
>
>
> "Possibly" :-) The effect seems bound to Apple scanlines rather than
> underlying video scanlines, so I figured it's related to limited luma
> processing causing the shift in areas where there is only one lit
> pixel, like vertical lines in the characters, a sort form of
> simplistic anti-aliasing in the upscaling algorithm which is probably
> quite effective for "video" signals, but less so for computer imagery.
> I'd have to hook it back up and again and study it more closely to be
> sure.
I see what you mean--this is a likely explanation with digital
processing. I was putting too much responsibility on the sampling
and not enough on the post-processing.
> I think this problem will plague us indefinitely until either somebody
> designs a custom solution, or physical display resolution becomes so
> damn high than the effects disappear into the 'noise'
Right. "Smart" upsampling to 1080p should do pretty well. I haven't
tried that yet...
nyder
I've been working on a converter for old computers (and other devices)
that takes the various res's and syncs it to a n RGB type monitor,
with an option to adjust the sync for multisync monitors.
Then intersil came out with a chip that will do the same thing, but
convert it to Componet form, which I realised is probably better for
todays TV's.
I recently picked up an LCD screen for a Xbox 360 (I don't have one)
because it has componet vid in. Granted it's only a 9.2" monitor, but
it gives me a componet viewing source to experiment on.
I have a GS, but no monitor for it. I did pick up some older mac
monitors, but i'm not sure they will work. But very few of my old
computers actually have the monitors for them.
anyways, i'm hoping to get back to my electronics work soon, so if you
let me know what the monitor is you want to hook your GS up to, i'll
see about making a device for you to test for me (and then keep a
working version for the testing, of course).
Plus any input onto what sort of monitors people are trying to connect
their older computers too would be nice. If everyone is going
componet then that makes things easier.
Michael J. Mahon
> Intersil makes a bunch of different chips that are great for this.
> I've been working on a converter for old computers (and other devices)
> that takes the various res's and syncs it to a n RGB type monitor,
> with an option to adjust the sync for multisync monitors.
>
> Then intersil came out with a chip that will do the same thing, but
> convert it to Componet form, which I realised is probably better for
> todays TV's.
Although upsampling is necessary for VGA display, it may not be
necessary for a well-designed 480i display mode. Interfacing a IIgs
to a 480i component input would only require a few video op-amps
to matrix the RGB input into YCrCb.
Certainly, the simpler analog approach should be tried first.
> I recently picked up an LCD screen for a Xbox 360 (I don't have one)
> because it has componet vid in. Granted it's only a 9.2" monitor, but
> it gives me a componet viewing source to experiment on.
>
> I have a GS, but no monitor for it. I did pick up some older mac
> monitors, but i'm not sure they will work. But very few of my old
> computers actually have the monitors for them.
Unfortunately, no Mac monitors will work with the IIgs. The IIgs
monitor is an analog RGB monitor with NTSC(-like) scan rates.
> anyways, i'm hoping to get back to my electronics work soon, so if you
> let me know what the monitor is you want to hook your GS up to, i'll
> see about making a device for you to test for me (and then keep a
> working version for the testing, of course).
>
> Plus any input onto what sort of monitors people are trying to connect
> their older computers too would be nice. If everyone is going
> componet then that makes things easier.
Unfortunately, the future of the component interface is also in doubt.
It is viewed as inconvenient by casual users and insecure by content
providers. However, it has a bit of "legacy" inertia, so it may remain
common on new monitors for a few years. Ultimately, it will be replaced
by HDMI or one of its derivatives for a hard-wired interface, and by
one of the contenders for the "standard" wireless HD interface.
mdj
My HDTV is a 32" model, 1366x768 resolution - I didn't see much point
going for 1080p unless the screen size was above 40", and that'd be
too large for my lounge.
It does a glorious job of deinterlacing and upscaling 480i or 576i
component source material from the DVD player. The composite
processing is somewhat less amazing, but handles 40 column Apple II
admirably, and the 80 column text is as I mentioned above, but not
quite as bad as the cheapie "portable" TV I was testing on.
Unfortunately it's a little too large to use as a monitor, unless I
build myself a wireless keyboard adapter for the IIe and integrate it
into the home entertainment rack ;-)
Of course, the resolution of this device is actually worse than a
smaller display (I prefer the dpi==resolution interpretation of
'resolution'), but I'm sure at some stage economies of scale will
bring us 10"-12" 1080p+ monitors :-)
Matt
nyder
Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> nyder wrote:
> > Intersil makes a bunch of different chips that are great for this.
> > I've been working on a converter for old computers (and other devices)
> > that takes the various res's and syncs it to a n RGB type monitor,
> > with an option to adjust the sync for multisync monitors.
> >
> > Then intersil came out with a chip that will do the same thing, but
> > convert it to Componet form, which I realised is probably better for
> > todays TV's.
>
> Although upsampling is necessary for VGA display, it may not be
> necessary for a well-designed 480i display mode. Interfacing a IIgs
> to a 480i component input would only require a few video op-amps
> to matrix the RGB input into YCrCb.
>
> Certainly, the simpler analog approach should be tried first.
>
Cool, I figured the lowest mode was probably good for things, but I
wasn't able to test anything out.
> > I recently picked up an LCD screen for a Xbox 360 (I don't have one)
> > because it has componet vid in. Granted it's only a 9.2" monitor, but
> > it gives me a componet viewing source to experiment on.
> >
> > I have a GS, but no monitor for it. I did pick up some older mac
> > monitors, but i'm not sure they will work. But very few of my old
> > computers actually have the monitors for them.
>
> Unfortunately, no Mac monitors will work with the IIgs. The IIgs
> monitor is an analog RGB monitor with NTSC(-like) scan rates.
>
Okay, I wasn't sure about this. I know some of the mac modes is
stupid crazy (in my opinion), but I hadn't taken the time to check the
specs of the GS's vid out.
I have about 4 various commodore monitors (15khz, rgb), plus just 1
multiscan (15kHz-35kHz, Sony cpd-1302)
One of the chips I got from Intersil will take any sync and supposedly
smooth it out so it works, but I haven't tested it yet. I need to
learn how to use my Oscilloscope a bit better first, though maybe I
can just take the readings my with multimeter. Not that it would help
on a Mac monitor, but it should help for older mac computers
connecting to some sort of rgb monitor.
> > anyways, i'm hoping to get back to my electronics work soon, so if you
> > let me know what the monitor is you want to hook your GS up to, i'll
> > see about making a device for you to test for me (and then keep a
> > working version for the testing, of course).
> >
> > Plus any input onto what sort of monitors people are trying to connect
> > their older computers too would be nice. If everyone is going
> > componet then that makes things easier.
>
> Unfortunately, the future of the component interface is also in doubt.
> It is viewed as inconvenient by casual users and insecure by content
> providers. However, it has a bit of "legacy" inertia, so it may remain
> common on new monitors for a few years. Ultimately, it will be replaced
> by HDMI or one of its derivatives for a hard-wired interface, and by
> one of the contenders for the "standard" wireless HD interface.
>
>
Ya, I guess thats very much true. But knowing the market, i'm not
going to hold my breath, plus i know I will be making devices to get
around it, since the market will want them. (at least, unless they
figure out some good protection, which i'm not holding my breath on).
While I still have access to some decent rgb monitors (thanks to
commodore), even these are getting hard to find. I love collecting
old computer/video equipment, but they have to work before I put them
in storage. What I really want to do is run a "hands on" museum of
older computer & vid consoles. Which is why I have to make sure
everything I collect works.
This is such a pain sometimes. I mean, we have a million stupid ways
of doing crap, history has shown that not going with a standard
usually leads to a fragmented market, unless something becomes the
dominate force for whatever reason (like VCR vs Beta).
I can go pick up LCD's for $10 because they have stupid ass
propriatory interfaces, so they are basicly useless. How many
different USB plug types do we need? Firewire plug types?
oh, well, guess we all could bitch about the stupid corps forever. If
they weren't so concerned about squeezing whatever they could from us,
we would of already had a standard done and the next gen (bluray, HD)
would already be a standard.
Of course, we would also have the fat internet bandwidth now if
companies kept their promises.
oops, I went into rant mode, guess I'm done here. =)
Linards Ticmanis
> Okay, I wasn't sure about this. I know some of the mac modes is
> stupid crazy (in my opinion), but I hadn't taken the time to check the
> specs of the GS's vid out.
> I have about 4 various commodore monitors (15khz, rgb), plus just 1
> multiscan (15kHz-35kHz, Sony cpd-1302)
The Commodore 1084 monitor works very well with the IIgs from all i've
heard.
--
Linards Ticmanis
Michael J. Mahon
> I have about 4 various commodore monitors (15khz, rgb), plus just 1
> multiscan (15kHz-35kHz, Sony cpd-1302)
The Sony is a keeper--it will do almost anything! ;-)
The Commodores with RGB in will work well, too.
Henry .a.t.
>> > any new RGB to VGA upscaling converters out that were particularly
>> > good for this task. The XRGB-2 is no longer available (and was
>> > pricey).
[BRYAN]
>> Well, someone and I are working with GSE-Reactice to test RGB to VGA
>> converter for Apple IIgs. It will be posted in the newsgroups couple
>> weeks
>> later.
There will probably be an 'official' announcement about this project at
KFEST, and then of course here.
More to come soon!
--
Henry S. Courbis
www.GSE-Reactive.com
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