Apple II wiki
Gabriel
As some of you may know, I have an Apple II site which is an Apple II
Beginner's Guide. There are many things I have wanted to add to it, but
I haven't had time. So, I've made a wiki version of the site located
at: http://wiki.gamoe.net
My hope is that there are other interested people out there who would
like to contribute to, and grow the site. If there are enough
interested people and enough new valuable Apple II info, I will have
this wiki replace the original site.
So, for all interested Apple II fans: Go and contribute!
Thanks!,
Gabriel
Warren Ernst
First, the good. Boy, does the Apple II world need a Wiki. I'm getting
back in the game after 10 years, and so I *remember* that you can do
certain things, but have forgotten *how to do them,* so I Google like
crazy to get answers, and then Bookmark the results. The sheer number
of Apple II sites is astonishing, when you think about it, and they are
spread all over the place. All over the freaking-place is more like it.
There's too much information for one person to actively write, link to,
or summarize easily. And the knowledge is spread out over many, many
people, who I think are hungry to spread the knowledge around before it
is all forgotten. That's the *perfect* environment for a Wiki to
prosper.
Now, the not-so-good. The CSA2 FAQ content should really go in there,
but it probably isn't fair to its authors to just convert it into a
Wiki, and re-writing it isn't a realistic option. Hmmm.
Now that domain names and hosting are so cheap, there's no reason for
what could be *the source* of shared Apple II information not to have
its own, easily-remembered domain name. No offense to Gabriel, of
course, especially since he has done all this work and donated his
space for this. But consider this: I have my own domain
(http://www.warrenernst.com/), but I have new and memorable domains for
Ubuntu Linux stuff (ubuntuhowto.com), sites for my clients
(class-site.com), southern california cat adoptions
(breacatsinneed.com), and my personal reviews of local restaurants
(fullertonreviews.com). And they all point to the same shared web
space. For $7 a year per domain name. I'm not suggesting hosting this
or anything, but I *AM* suggesting that this wiki be located at a
genuinely useful domain name. I'll even pony up the dough for the first
year or two.
And finally, it seems ironic that what probably could be the best
construct to house Apple II information would be unbrowsable by a
genuine Apple II. I don't see an elegant way around that...
Just my thoughts...
-Warr
Michael J. Mahon
I don't think I'd be willing to live with the compromises if it
meant giving up lots of nice graphics and wiki editability.
> Just my thoughts...
Good ones, IMHO.
The fundamental problem is that all web sites have proprieters,
and all proprieters eventually lose interest, go away, die, etc.
It would be good if there were some way to "endow" an organization
to keep the flame alive despite being composed of individuals.
And there, the problem always seems to come down to money, even
though the non-love (personal time) parts of the cost are very
low to keep a site registered and online.
I'd guess that $200/year would do it, for gigs of online storage
and reasonable bandwidth limits. Put another way, as long as
there are 20 Apple afficionados willing to pony up $10/year,
plus their own efforts, something like this could continue
without interruption. (And if there ever get to be less than
20 such people, then the community can be officially considered
dead.)
-michael
Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
Martin Doherty
> [snip]
> The fundamental problem is that all web sites have proprieters,
> and all proprieters eventually lose interest, go away, die, etc.
> It would be good if there were some way to "endow" an organization
> to keep the flame alive despite being composed of individuals.
>
> And there, the problem always seems to come down to money, even
> though the non-love (personal time) parts of the cost are very
> low to keep a site registered and online.
>
> I'd guess that $200/year would do it, for gigs of online storage
> and reasonable bandwidth limits. Put another way, as long as
> there are 20 Apple afficionados willing to pony up $10/year,
> plus their own efforts, something like this could continue
> without interruption. (And if there ever get to be less than
> 20 such people, then the community can be officially considered
> dead.)
>
> -michael
>
> Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
> Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
I don't know anything about setting up a website but I'd be happy to
stay on the hook for $10/year to support the effort.
Martin
Greg Andrzejewski
"Warren Ernst" <wer...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135104402.3...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Boy, do I have mixed feelings about this.
>
> First, the good. Boy, does the Apple II world need a Wiki. I'm getting
> back in the game after 10 years, and so I *remember* that you can do
> certain things, but have forgotten *how to do them,* so I Google like
> crazy to get answers, and then Bookmark the results. The sheer number
> of Apple II sites is astonishing, when you think about it, and they are
> spread all over the place. All over the freaking-place is more like it.
>
>
> There's too much information for one person to actively write, link to,
> or summarize easily. And the knowledge is spread out over many, many
> people, who I think are hungry to spread the knowledge around before it
> is all forgotten. That's the *perfect* environment for a Wiki to
> prosper.
>
> Now, the not-so-good. The CSA2 FAQ content should really go in there,
> but it probably isn't fair to its authors to just convert it into a
> Wiki, and re-writing it isn't a realistic option. Hmmm.
Correct, but the FAQ doesn't have a lot of program-specific information nor
does it have much information on the myriad of cards available for the II. I
think instructions/guides for programs would be useful as a well as a
definitive place to look for information on cards before posting an "anyone
recognize this" to csa2.
-Greg
Poster
> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>
>> [snip]
>> The fundamental problem is that all web sites have proprieters,
>> and all proprieters eventually lose interest, go away, die, etc.
>> It would be good if there were some way to "endow" an organization
>> to keep the flame alive despite being composed of individuals.
>>
>> And there, the problem always seems to come down to money, even
>> though the non-love (personal time) parts of the cost are very
>> low to keep a site registered and online.
I think the real way to go about it is to set up a tax-exempt foundation
and use some starting sum to invest. Then, have one person who would run
the thing take care of managing the stocks enough to get about $200/year
to pay for the bandwidth. That way, the organization endures
indefinitely, though the stock managers may come and go.
-- Poster
www.intaligo.com/ -^-^-^- Inform libraries and extensions!
www.intaligo.com/building/ *- B U I L D I N G -* Dark IF.
Gabriel
a specific domain for the Apple II Guide. It's http://Apple2Guide.net
but it aliases to the old site. The reason is, I consider this new wiki
site a beta, if you will. It is an experiment. So far, one person has
contributed, adding to the list of Apple II stores. This is good, but
it's not enough. Once I see at least a handful of people contributing,
and a good amount of new valuable info there, I will retire the old
site and point http://Apple2Guide.info to the wiki. No one needs to
contribute any money now.
As for the FAQs, putting them in the wiki is the respective authors'
choice. I've open up the site so that anyone can put any Apple II info
in there.
Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> The fundamental problem is that all web sites have proprieters,
> and all proprieters eventually lose interest, go away, die, etc.
> It would be good if there were some way to "endow" an organization
> to keep the flame alive despite being composed of individuals.
I have had the guide up for more than six years (I actually had it up
before I got my domain, so it pre-cedes the website, though I don't
remember for exactly how long). I already consider the wiki a work of
the community. Even before, all the info I got I got from this
newsgroup, the FAQs and some other sources. I just put it all together
in the way I thought was best. I will definitely not lose interest,
particularly as long as there are other people interested and
contributing.
I think setting up some kind of official tax-exempt organization, while
it is perhaps something that could be considered at some point, is far
too elaborate a thing for right now. I think we should first
concentrate on actual content that can help others.
Look this is YOUR site, this is OUR site. This is why I opened it up.
Barring my death, which I don't plan to be doing anytime soon, the
guide/wiki will be up and supported. I have had that domain registered
for a while and have it registered right now through 2009, so it's not
going away, nor do I need contributions to keep it. If this becomes a
much bigger project in need of more funds, then we shall see, but what
we need most now is content, not money.
I am actually excited to read these responses. Apparently, I'm not the
only one to see the potential. I would love to be involved with the
community in helping create a great, free and updated resource for all
Apple II fans and users.
I think there's a lot that could be added, without even copying it
directly from other sources. I'd be interested in seeing a Games
section, for instance, with info on Apple II games, download links and
artwork (I have to figure out how to enable image uploads first,
though). And that's just one idea of many things that could be added.
I am really encouraged by the support, and I hope this will really
work.
Thanks,
Gabriel
heyb...@gmail.com
it would probably ease a lot of people's concerns over losing the info
they spent time inputing.
Gabriel
(Sorry, got confused with another domain) :-)
Michael J. Mahon
Thanks for providing more confidence in the durability of the site.
That is a major factor in encouraging its use. (The suggestion to
make a full archive available is another big step in that direction.)
> I am actually excited to read these responses. Apparently, I'm not the
> only one to see the potential. I would love to be involved with the
> community in helping create a great, free and updated resource for all
> Apple II fans and users.
>
> I think there's a lot that could be added, without even copying it
> directly from other sources. I'd be interested in seeing a Games
> section, for instance, with info on Apple II games, download links and
> artwork (I have to figure out how to enable image uploads first,
> though). And that's just one idea of many things that could be added.
In looking at your "front page", and in the wiki spirit,I note that:
-the computers are not listed in chronological order, which would
have the //e before the //c and //c+
-the company that created the 6502 is MOS Technologies, not MOStek
(which is another company)
-the Apple ][/][+ could display 16 colors at 40x48
-it's probably worth pointing out that the ][ and ][+ were both
the same machine, with different ROMs (which is implied), and so
had the same memory expansion capability (which is not implied)
-the //c and //c+ were memory-expandable to 128K *plus* 1MB (however
you would like to say that)
-the //c+ 800KB 3.5" drive was not optional. And it's most salient
difference from the //c, apart from the drive, was its 4MHz speed,
the result of a discrete implementation of a Zip Chip on board.
Sorry to sound nit-picky, but it's no more than a Britannica editor
would do. ;-) Seriously, being definitive is the real value.
> I am really encouraged by the support, and I hope this will really
> work.
>
> Thanks,
I do too, Gabriel, and I'll be happy to contribute.
-michael
Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
"The wastebasket is our most important design
Gabriel
Do you mean an update to the web site from the wiki? As far as the data
is concerned, it is stored on a reliable database (never had a problem
with it) and I do make regular backups. If on the other hand, you mean
updating the site with the wiki info, I really don't see much point to
that: It's more work and wouldn't be final anyway.
Honestly, if all that's keeping people from contributing is not having
it "publicly" available now, I will happily put it up where the static
site is now and alias Apple2Guide.net to it. I'd rather have waited and
seen if it gets enough support, but if that's what's keeping people
from contributing in the first place, there's no purpose to it and I'll
just put it up now. Please let me all know what you think of this.
Michael wrote:
> Sorry to sound nit-picky, but it's no more than a Britannica editor
> would do. ;-) Seriously, being definitive is the real value.
I agree. I look forward to your changes and additions. :-)
Thanks,
Gabriel
Michael J. Mahon
> po...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>If you could make a regular data backup of the wiki publicly available,
>>it would probably ease a lot of people's concerns over losing the info
>>they spent time inputing.
>
>
> Do you mean an update to the web site from the wiki? As far as the data
> is concerned, it is stored on a reliable database (never had a problem
> with it) and I do make regular backups. If on the other hand, you mean
> updating the site with the wiki info, I really don't see much point to
> that: It's more work and wouldn't be final anyway.
I think he meant that if anyone could download the entire wiki easily
(in an archive, for example, that was updated, say, on your backup
interval), then people would feel that its persistence was insured
by pervasiveness, and not only your steadfastness. ;-)
> Michael wrote:
>
>
>>Sorry to sound nit-picky, but it's no more than a Britannica editor
>>would do. ;-) Seriously, being definitive is the real value.
>
>
> I agree. I look forward to your changes and additions. :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gabriel
>
--
Simon D. Williams
> And finally, it seems ironic that what probably could be the best
> construct to house Apple II information would be unbrowsable by a
> genuine Apple II. I don't see an elegant way around that...
ANyone whose Apple II is in a position to browse a website is probably
resourceful enough to switch to a PC or Mac when necessary...
But if A2-compatibility is really a concern, it's not hard to accomplish
so long as you keep your html simple and limit your graphical content to
downloadable 280x192px giffs.
._____. SIMON WILLIAMS :::::::: LUDDITE ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED
|[LD8]! 8-BIT SOUND & FURY : APPLE ][ AUDIO & MUSIC RESOURCES
| o. | +------- http://8bitsoundandfury.no-ip.info/ -------+
!__!__! OLD APPLE WEB SERVER LIST http://www.ld8.org/servers/
Michael J. Mahon
> On 20 Dec 2005, Warren Ernst wrote:
>
>
>>And finally, it seems ironic that what probably could be the best
>>construct to house Apple II information would be unbrowsable by a
>>genuine Apple II. I don't see an elegant way around that...
>
>
> ANyone whose Apple II is in a position to browse a website is probably
> resourceful enough to switch to a PC or Mac when necessary...
>
> But if A2-compatibility is really a concern, it's not hard to accomplish
> so long as you keep your html simple and limit your graphical content to
> downloadable 280x192px giffs.
Which would be far too big a sacrifice in general usability
for all but the fuzziest photos. A board photo would never
show the traces or chip numbers clearly, for example.
If we're going to make a wiki, let's make it a *great* wiki,
not a relic that someone stumbling across it would think was
"quaint" in its style.
Apple II "readability" is an unnecessary constraint.
Jerry
I'd request that you change the background color to white. Some
people's eyes, like mine, find it hard to read the way it is.
Thanks!
--
Jerry Penner e-mail: remove the blips and _
Scott Alfter
Hash: SHA1
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.105...@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca>,
Simon D. Williams <bb...@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:
>On 20 Dec 2005, Warren Ernst wrote:
>
>> And finally, it seems ironic that what probably could be the best
>> construct to house Apple II information would be unbrowsable by a
>> genuine Apple II. I don't see an elegant way around that...
>
>ANyone whose Apple II is in a position to browse a website is probably
>resourceful enough to switch to a PC or Mac when necessary...
>
>But if A2-compatibility is really a concern, it's not hard to accomplish
>so long as you keep your html simple and limit your graphical content to
>downloadable 280x192px giffs.
The most likely way someone with a II (especially one of the 8-bit models)
would access a website from it would be through a shell account on a UN*X
box of some sort (whether it's your own Linux box over a null-modem cable or
dialup access somewhere). As long as your site renders OK and is navigable
in text browsers such as Lynx, you can view it on a II.
_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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Kevin Greene
some time...I've put one up now.
http://www.applevault.com/twiki
I was thinking that I could probably set up a script to tar up the whole
wiki periodically and allow it for download if people are paranoid about
losing information.
As far as Apple IIs being able to access it, this wiki also supports
various skins, so it would probably be possible to create a minimal
sking that would allow text browser viewing. I did a quick test from
contiki and it appears I can at least access the site but I didn't test
anything.
There also appears to be an experimental mirroring option built in to
this particular wiki software but I haven't tried it yet.
Kevin
www.applevault.com
Ed Eastman
> As some of you may know, I have an Apple II site which is an Apple II
> Beginner's Guide. There are many things I have wanted to add to it, but
> I haven't had time. So, I've made a wiki version of the site located
> at: http://wiki.gamoe.net
>
> My hope is that there are other interested people out there who would
> like to contribute to, and grow the site. If there are enough
> interested people and enough new valuable Apple II info, I will have
> this wiki replace the original site.
If we build it you must maintain it. I'll send a long a list of
probable issues regarding facts that I've seen so far.
Thankx,
Ed
Simon D. Williams
> Apple II "readability" is an unnecessary constraint.
I agree, as far as graphics go... I was thinking in terms of eye-candy
rather than actually useful images ;-)
-s
Warren Ernst
The offer to use the apple2guide.net is a good idea, and well
appreciated by myself.
The idea of public backups, Gabriel, is EXACTLY because of the reason
you nonchelantly laughed off: what would happen to all of our work and
all this material IF YOU DID (accidentally) DIE?
If you wanted to stop managing an Apple II Wiki one day by your own
choice, I have no doubt that you'd want to pass the content (backup
files, passwords, or whatever) on to someone else, and it would live
on. But what if they keys to the Wiki were held ONLY by someone who had
something sudden and unfortunate happen to him? Hey, stuff happens.
The whole point of a publicly available backup is so that various
people (or indeed, ANYONE) can, at any time, download a backup of the
wiki with the ability to re-build it somewhere else if necessary. Then,
god forbid, at some day in the future when the site stops working and
you stop responding to emails because you had a stroke, were in a plane
crash, or whatever horrible event occurred, the site can keep running
on a new server.
A Wiki site is not just a flat collection of HTML or Text files (at
least not normally, depending on the Wiki package). It is a collection
of php script files, configuration files, a MySQL (or other type of )
database file, any special .htaccess files, and a master admin password
for the site. ALL of this needs to get periodically and automatically
backed up, and the backup file made available for download. Making the
master password both private (to avoid hacking) AND public (to allow
the site to be rebuilt) is the sticky wicket. Maybe someone has an idea
about that.
But some mechanism like this HAS to be done before I would spend any
meaningful amount of time contributing to it. Or the mechanism at least
has to be thought about and a plan of action described first. Some sort
of non-profit group is one mechanism that accomplishes this. Public
backup files are another, and a lot easier. I'm sure there must be
others too.
I don't mean to be a wet blanket here. If I am, I'm very sorry.
But I've been in the business long enough to have seen, with my own
eyes, important one-man-shows disappear because the "one-man" that ran
it, disappeared first, to the detriment of the community, hobby, or
businesses that relied on it. Maintaining an Apple II Encyclopedia is
the same thing.
-Warren Ernst
(former Beagle Bros)
Gabriel
powered by MediaWiki, which is the same software Wikipedia uses. It is
a stock installation of MediaWiki, which means you can go download it
<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Download> and it you would have the same
installation now on the site. I'll be updating to the latest version
every so often.
The wiki runs off a MySQL database on a Linux server. Right now, the
database is shared with another script, but I am willing to purchase
stand-alone hosting, if that's what the community really wants, so that
the wiki would have it's own MySQL database. Then, I would make a
backup version available as a download, or upon request.
I have no problem managing the hosting, that is the technical aspects
of the project, making regular (monthly?) backups available, and taking
care of possible vandalism. However, a wiki is truly an open,
meta-democratic community project, so the responsibility of keeping and
maintaining the site will be spread among all those in the community
who choose to participate.
Please realize that, as a wiki, anybody can simply click "edit", copy
each page and save it or put it on a private wiki if they wish. In
fact, if somebody wishes to set up a manage a mirror of
Apple2Guide.net, that would be fine by me.
MediaWiki is a versatile package, supports multiple skins, and has many
features that I haven't begun to explore yet, but all that I've said so
far can be done and I know how to do.
Your concern for my health is touching, Warren. ;-) But, be assured
that even if something were to happen to me, the information would
still be freely available to all. Just please remember to mention me in
the new wiki if anything happens to me. ;-)
With my current hosting, adding another host with a standalone MySQL
database would cost me about $45. Maintaining the site as is will not
cost me anymore, so no contributions are necessary if the community is
okay with how it is now. However, I would appreciate some help to cover
the cost to set up a new hosting/MySQL account if that's what the
community wants to do.
Warren Ernst
Well, it seems like we have a little dialog going. ;-) Cool.
First off, so you know, I've already set up wikis and other CMS systems
(I like and do a very small amount of development for Drupal, myself,
but that's another story) on Linux and Windows (ugh!) hosts. So I'm all
up on the tech.
So I guess you're saying that you have a hosting plan that only allows
one MySQL database, so you're sharing it between different CMS systems?
Really? Wow. Most hosting plans I know about allow multiple databases
per account. Heck, the company I'm buying cheap hosting with allows
UNLIMITED MySQL databases per account.
When I made my suggestion, I was assuming you had a seperate MySQL
database for the Apple 2 Wiki, so backing it up would be a breeze. I
also naturally assumed you were using an off-the-shelf installation of
MediaWiki (that banner ad was the giveaway <G>) I wouldn't have
suggested something that required you to buy anything else or totally
shift your hosting plan around.
Perhaps another option is DokuWiki, which happens to be a highly
regarded wiki that doesn't use a database. All files are stored in,
well, flat text files. This would make public backups extremely easy to
do - just gzip a folder and all of its children, and you're done. Its
located at http://wiki.splitbrain.org/wiki:dokuwiki, and compared to
other wiki packages at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software
Needless to say, I'm aware that the content of the site would
essentially be in the hands of everyone but you. That's the strength of
the wiki for a community with as much info spread out like it is here
with ours.
But again, I need to stress the issues relating to "my concern for your
health," as you put it. I think you're missing my point. Let's say
you're hosting the wiki for, say, 4 years. It gets HUGE, and has
massive cross-linking to internal articles and exteral sites. And let's
say you've paid up for hosting for 6 years. And then you get hit by a
bus. (Again, God forbid.)
Two years pass, and suddenly the site goes dark. Or say the web hosting
company has a problem 1 year after you're gone, has no one to contact,
and let's some database problem go unfixed. We all see the problem, but
the hosting company won't let anyone else get access to the hosting
control panel other than you. There's no going back at this point.
There's nothing to access to copy and paste to new files.
And because this is a wiki, we can't just click "display source HTML"
for each page, save it, and rebuild the wiki from scratch anyway.
That's what database backups are for. If the backup is made available
regularly and automatically (I'd set up a cron job to do it once a
month, for example), then anyone could pick up the pieces and rebuild
the wiki anywhere.
So, with that said, are you sure you aren't able to use multiple
databases with MediaWiki? Want to consider DokuWiki instead? Any more
thoughts? Anyone else want to chime in?
-Warr
Poake
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Using a tool like phpMyAdmin makes managing mySQL databases very easy
and allows you to make exports of the databases or tables. MediaWiki is
fairly common with hosting providers so no problems there. I use it
myself.
Warren Ernst
Right. I use it at most of my sites (see above) too, and it is
remarkably easy to manually backup a whole database, or just a set of
tables from it.
Still, an automatic periodic backup makes SO MUCH sense here. Just set
it, forget it, and let the site manage itself.
-Warr
Gabriel
My host does give me multiple MySQL databases. I wasn't aware of this,
probably because it wasn't like this when I first got the hosting.
Seems like they've "upgraded" my account since I got it. Either that,
or I just forgot about this feature.
In any case, I've now transferred the wiki data onto its own database.
I'm good with MediaWiki for now, and I think saving data to a database
is best. My host does have phpMyAdmin available and I use it when
needed (this is how I transferred the wiki). I'm not sure if cron jobs
are allowed, but making manual periodic updates is not much of burden,
anyway.
So, as there is concern as to the keyholder being struck dead by a bus
(I can picture myself walking down the street with an Apple II shirt on
only to be hit by a bus, at which time an Apple II BASIC diskette
tragically flies from my hand), and since it's now on its own database,
I would be willing to give one or two responsible members of the
community the "key" to the database, to be used in case of my
unfortunate death by bus, car, plane, lightening, Apple II falling on
the head or other such tragic event.
Whoever has the password can also make backups for himself and other
available if he wishes, and address any technical difficulties if they
arise.
As for administrators, Mark: Everybody already has a lot of power on
the wiki. An admin is just there to settle any problems and make sure
there are no problems. I doubt that we'll see many edit wars, as most
people in the Apple II community strike me as responsible and
respectful. I think most problems/differences can be resolved via
discussion (on the discussion pages). However, if someone else wants to
be an admin, let me know, and we'll all take a vote on it.
The same with the database password-- Anyone who wants to have it, let
me know on this thread and we'll have everyone else chime in to see
what the community thinks. This seems to me the fairest way to decide.
By the way, I happened to find a copy of my original message announcing
the Apple II Beginner's Guide dated April 11, 1999.
<http://apple2.org.za/gswv/a2zine/GS.WorldView/v1999/Apr/The.Apple.II.Beginner's.Guide.txt>
I think this is a fitting evolution to the site. What do you say we set
an "official" debut date of January 1, 2006 to make the wiki public and
alias it to Apple2Guide.net? This could be a beautiful thing. :-)
Warren Ernst
Cool beans. Since you've indulged me for this long, allow me to suggest
the following:
Firstly, as far as I am concerned, this is YOUR site. You've done all
the work, are paying for the hosting, and you've paid for the domain
name. Frankly, I personally think that if you were the sole admin, and
didn't give administration rights to anyone else, that would be fine.
If you want to designate some co-admins or whatever, go for it. Its
your show. (BTW, I personally have no interest in the position.)
The wiki content will work itself out. It usually does, in my
experience. "Normal" rights to contributors should be all that's
needed.
My only beef was that there was some way to rebuild the wiki should you
fall off the face of the earth, and let's be honest, before this month,
*my* last posts to CSA2 were about 10 *years* ago, and who knows when
I'll drop out again. <g> Any one of us could lose interest for a few
years.
So about passwords and backups. My advice to you is to *not* give out
the admin password to anyone (more on this below). Furthermore, I
recommend you *not* give out the MySQL database username and password
either. These last two are only needed to set up communication between
the Wiki software and the database server, and if someone wants to
rebuild the wiki elsewhere with the database, they will set up their
own MySQL username and password on their system. In other words, giving
it away the database username/password only serves to put the wiki at
risk for vandalism and hacking. Don't do it.
Now the wiki's Admin account name and password is something that WILL
be needed for someone to rebuild the wiki. It is saved in the wiki
database itself. So here's what I recommend: JUST BEFORE doing a
database backup, change the Admin password to something like "abc123"
(or whatever). Then log out of the Wiki and do the MySQL database
backup. Link the downloadable tarball to a link in the wiki itself in a
Wiki page named something like "Database Backup File.". Then make one
more backup and make the latest backup replace the first backup. Now
change the Admin password back to what you had it as before.
In the future, just before doing the backup of the database, change the
password to something else, then make the backup, then change the PW
back to whatever you were using, and then update with Wiki Page with
"the admin password for this backup file is 'llama'. (or whatever).
This way, the backup file could always be used for rebuilding it
elsewhere, AND there won't be anyway for some yahoo to log in as the
Admin without your permission, so you'll always be in control.
Brilliant, no?
As I have plenty of hosting space and MySQL rights, I'd be happy to
test that the backup can be relocated elsewhere. I'll even write up the
procedure on a Wiki page on the Wiki itself.
Sound OK to you?
-Warr
Warren Ernst
-Warr
Gabriel
wanted to look into what you said before I replied, but unfortunately I
haven't had time with all the festivities and things I have been doing
around the house before the semester begins again.
You can be sure that the wiki is still on, though. Have a great New
Year's Eve!
Martin Doherty
accomplished with plain text, I foresee a future benefit to enabling
this feature (e.g. photos) to enhance the articles in the wiki.
I plan to contribute some articles myself soon, so I've been thinking
about just what sort of information repository this wiki could best
become. It doesn't strike me as a good place to store books, videos,
software disk images etc. (at least initially), since this would explode
the storage requirements and hosting costs. I see it as more like an
unbounded set of magazine articles and reference information, composed
of prose, code snippets, code listings, screenshots, photos. Therefore
it would certainly be beneficial to enable uploading of small files that
support the article - jpeg images, source code as a downloadable text
file - SHORT - not 10,000 lines of Pascal. If someone has gone to the
trouble of writing a complete telecommunications package in Pascal and
wants to share the source code, it belongs at SourceForge or similar
open source repository, but a wiki entry that describes and links to the
other site would be completely appropriate. I was thinking more like
short Applesoft / Assembly / Pascal programs which illustrate a
technique or performs a simple function, up to a few hundred lines long.
So, how is the storage situation? Do you think it will be feasible any
time to allow uploads, perhaps with a size limitation e.g. 20K?
Martin
Warren Ernst
I'd set the limit higher...
-Warr
PZ
Now here is an idea, please don't take it as stepping on your toes, I
know you've put a lot of work into the Apple II Guide and thus you may
want to keep some of your material propriatary, rightfully so.
To me this project sound like it would be ideal for the Wikibooks.org
site. This could potentially grow into a huge volume covering
everything from booting a 48k II Plus to Toolbox programming under
System 6.0.1. You would never have to worry about storage, bandwidth
and you have the backing and funding of the entire Wikipedia
organization.
Likewise, you wouldn't have to use your resources for site maintenance
and upgrades, instead you can direct those to the project (or fishing,
etc.) Using Wikibooks would also quell any concern of you dropping off
of the face of the earth, being eaten by a large rodent, etc.
Also you current site could remain as a "mini-guide" and market the
wikibook project to those who don't know of its existence.
- Paul
Gabriel
enabled. Size is limited to 800 x 600 px. Let me know if you have any
limit problems, or if you think this should be increased.
Martin Doherty wrote:
> It doesn't strike me as a good place to store books, videos,
> software disk images etc. (at least initially), since this would explode
> the storage requirements and hosting costs. I see it as more like an
> unbounded set of magazine articles and reference information, composed
> of prose, code snippets, code listings, screenshots, photos.
I think you have the right idea. As Warren has suggested, think of this
as an encyclopedia... which has volumes and sections on different
topics pertaining to the main subject, but would not include separate
whole videos or books on the subjects, but mentions and maybe snippets
of it.
For example, an encyclopedia on Heaven and Hell would include mentions
and a description of Dante's Inferno, maybe even illustrations and
snippets, but certainly not the entire work!
PZ wrote:
> Hey Gabriel, nice resource.
Thank you, PZ. :-) It's thanks to the community here that it's becoming
such a great resource now, though.
> Now here is an idea, please don't take it as stepping on your toes, I
> know you've put a lot of work into the Apple II Guide and thus you may
> want to keep some of your material propriatary, rightfully so.
PZ, not that you're "stepping on my toes", but I think we should
concentrate on making this happen on our own, without the aid of the
Wikimedia Foundation.
Funding and storage shouldn't be a problem for now, and I think we can
handle any foreseeable costs.
The site itself should be under an "Open-Source" like license, so you
should be free to copy it to your own site as long as you give credit
to the original site and authors (not just me). Feel free to open a
dialog on the wiki. I check the recent changes page often.
As for my old site, I don't see any reason to maintain it now that we
have the wiki, which is that and so much more already.
Thanks,
Gabriel
Warren Ernst
So, with that said, when is the "real" url for the wiki going live? I'd
love to start linking to it, but not with its current, temporary URL...
-Warr
Gabriel
enabled. Size is limited to 800 x 600 px. Let me know if you have any
limit problems, or if you think this should be increased.
Martin Doherty wrote:
> It doesn't strike me as a good place to store books, videos,
> software disk images etc. (at least initially), since this would explode
> the storage requirements and hosting costs. I see it as more like an
> unbounded set of magazine articles and reference information, composed
> of prose, code snippets, code listings, screenshots, photos.
I think you have the right idea. As Warren has suggested, think of this
as an encyclopedia... which has volumes and sections on different
topics pertaining to the main subject, but would not include separate
whole videos or books on the subjects, but mentions and maybe snippets
of it.
For example, an encyclopedia on Heaven and Hell would include mentions
and a description of Dante's Inferno, maybe even illustrations and
snippets, but certainly not the entire work!
PZ wrote:
> Hey Gabriel, nice resource.
Thank you, PZ. :-) It's thanks to the community here that it's becoming
such a great resource now, though.
> Now here is an idea, please don't take it as stepping on your toes, I
> know you've put a lot of work into the Apple II Guide and thus you may
> want to keep some of your material propriatary, rightfully so.
PZ, not that you're "stepping on my toes", but I think we should