Caution on AP-64E EPROM Programmer
Mark Cummings
Mark Cummings
I recently got my AP-64E EPROM Programmer working after having spent many hours/days/weeks drawing the complete circuit on Protel so I could try and figure out what was broken.
In the end I discovered that I had in fact set up the dip switches wrong. After re-checking my original manual and Waynes .pdf version I noticed a possible cause of confusion in the dip switch table. it shows all combinations of dip switches for 2716, 2732 and 2764 EPROMs using an "o" or an "x" to indicate it's state. What isn't mentioned is whether the "o" means open or closed, or whether the "x" means open or closed !. This is a critical omission.
This is where I went wrong, I had mistakenly thought that the "o" was open and "x" was closed, where in fact it should be the other way. ie. "o" is closed (on) and "x" is open (off).
I had even printed my own fully formatted A5 size manual adding a note incorrectly, which I will now change. There was already a note of caution in the manual stating that your EPROM could be damaged if the switches are wrong and now that I have drawn the circuit I can understand why. It is quite possible that if the switches are wrong and an attempt to burn an EPROM that the programming voltage (about 25V) could be fed back to the wrong pins on the EPROM or even the PIA.
I guess in the worst case you could even feed that 25 Volts back to your reliable old Apple II motherboard, this is why I am now cautioning others that have this programmer, to ensure that you make a note in the book to indicate which way is correct. If you don't have the book, Wayne's website does, and I will also put my version up soon too, with some modifications that can be done to read 27128 EPROMs, which I only just tried successfully last night. simple mod in most cases.
I will also put up a circuit diagram of the board, however in the meantime anyone wanting a copy of the protel file can just e-mail me at:
figjams AT primus DOT com DOT au
(you know the deal)
Incidently, anyone know how to convert a Protel drawing into some image format, like GIF ?, otherwise I have to print it and re-scan it, losing some quality and squareness.
Mark.
Mark Cummings
image format, like GIF ?, otherwise I have to print it and re-scan it,
losing some quality and squareness.
I just figured how to make a .pdf from it in full colour. Will this be
suitable for most or would another format be prefered. I thought .gif so
that A2 only owners could view it ???
Mark
Scott Alfter
Hash: SHA1
In article <3e8ae...@news.iprimus.com.au>,
Mark Cummings <fig...@primus.com.au> wrote:
>Incidently, anyone know how to convert a Protel drawing into some image
>format, like GIF ?, otherwise I have to print it and re-scan it, losing
>some quality and squareness.
If Protel can export PostScript, you can use Ghostscript to convert
PostScript to PBM and netpbm to convert PBM to PNG. IIRC, you could also
use Ghostscript to save directly to TIFF. Ghostscript has some options that
let you set the resolution at which the input file is rendered...the default
setting is too low for anything but the simplest designs, but you can set it
to 600 or 1200 dpi and get something that you could print onto film for
making boards. (I'd think that for enabling people to have boards made
instead of rolling their own, you'd want to provide Gerber and Excellon
files too...I'd think Protel can do that by itself. It's easier (and not
much more expensive...places like Olimex and Custom PCB are dirt-cheap for
small-quantity board production) for me to send files to a boardhouse than
to try making a board myself, and the quality is better.)
Not much is out there that saves to GIF, due to patent issues. PNG is
better than GIF anyway...it offers better compression and supports up to (at
least) 24-bit color. The LZW patent runs out in less than three months (20
Jun 03), but I doubt there will be a big rush to add GIF support to graphics
software in the same way that there was a big rush to add RSA support to
encryption software when that patent expired.
_/_ Scott Alfter
/ v \ sal...@salfter.dyndns.org
(IIGS( http://alfter.us Top-posting!
\_^_/ pkill -9 /bin/laden >What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE+i0x1VgTKos01OwkRAvpJAKCom9VYVIFaV0YPJevmhcCmhb0dqACfZNBE
S56bGpp3d3fk9XCWu1CVx9c=
=K7Q4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Mark Cummings
> PostScript to PBM and netpbm to convert PBM to PNG. IIRC, you could also
> use Ghostscript to save directly to TIFF. Ghostscript has some options
that
> let you set the resolution at which the input file is rendered...the
default
> setting is too low for anything but the simplest designs, but you can set
it
> to 600 or 1200 dpi and get something that you could print onto film for
> making boards. (I'd think that for enabling people to have boards made
> instead of rolling their own, you'd want to provide Gerber and Excellon
> files too...I'd think Protel can do that by itself. It's easier (and not
> much more expensive...places like Olimex and Custom PCB are dirt-cheap for
> small-quantity board production) for me to send files to a boardhouse than
> to try making a board myself, and the quality is better.)
I can't export to anything other than Protel binary, Protel text or Orcad,
and of course print to PDF. the latter option is what I have used as it
seems pretty popular, looks good in colour, and is really my only option
without scanning for now.
<snip hash>
anyway I have done the book and circuit finally, and they are here:
http://home.iprimus.com.au/figjams/apple2/AP-64e.PDF
http://home.iprimus.com.au/figjams/apple2/AP64Ecct.PDF
apologies for a lack of home page, havn't ever bothered to do that yet.
Mark
Scott Alfter
Hash: SHA1
In article <3e8d8...@news.iprimus.com.au>,
Mark Cummings <NOTfi...@primus.com.au> wrote:
>> If Protel can export PostScript...
>
>I can't export to anything other than Protel binary, Protel text or Orcad,
>and of course print to PDF. the latter option is what I have used as it
>seems pretty popular, looks good in colour, and is really my only option
>without scanning for now.
Ghostscript will read PDFs the same way it reads PostScript, so you could
use it to convert to something else. (Converting your schematic to some
format that would be viewable on an Apple II would be painful, though, due
to the size and amount of detail. :-) )
_/_ Scott Alfter
/ v \ sal...@salfter.dyndns.org
(IIGS( http://alfter.us Top-posting!
\_^_/ pkill -9 /bin/laden >What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE+jd+JVgTKos01OwkRAmkZAJ9Fa4JyL1UiDBMur9quYsA4QTFqhwCg9FhS
X7S4no9XTW3JCVYKUxxfz1A=
=WTSQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Michael J. Mahon
>I can't export to anything other than Protel binary, Protel text or Orcad,
>and of course print to PDF. the latter option is what I have used as it
>seems pretty popular, looks good in colour, and is really my only option
>without scanning for now.
>
><snip hash>
>
>anyway I have done the book and circuit finally, and they are here:
>
>http://home.iprimus.com.au/figjams/apple2/AP-64e.PDF
>
>http://home.iprimus.com.au/figjams/apple2/AP64Ecct.PDF
Beautiful, Mark!
-michael
Check out amazing quality 8-bit Apple sound on my
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
Glenn Jones
news:3e8d8...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Nice work Mark!
To anyone else ....
I have an eprom programmer that was developed by a local Toronto company
called Exceltronix. It came with a photocopy of the listings for the
Applesoft and Assembler burn routines. It also came with a decent hand
drawn schematic. Total 16 pages. It uses personality modules (2716, 2732,
2732A and 2764) and it may be possible to figure out new modules for larger
eproms.
I had hoped to modify it to burn 27256 chips and have only gotten around to
downloading the data sheets for all the chips it can currently burn as well
as the 27128 and 27256.
It uses a 6821, dual 8212's, a 78540 and has a 28pin ZIF socket plus misc
bits.
Would there be any interest in my scanning this info in?
Glenn
Mark Cummings
news:_esja.40152$7Im....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
<snip>
> To anyone else ....
>
> I have an eprom programmer that was developed by a local Toronto company
> called Exceltronix. It came with a photocopy of the listings for the
> Applesoft and Assembler burn routines. It also came with a decent hand
> drawn schematic. Total 16 pages. It uses personality modules (2716, 2732,
> 2732A and 2764) and it may be possible to figure out new modules for
larger
> eproms.
>
> I had hoped to modify it to burn 27256 chips and have only gotten around
to
> downloading the data sheets for all the chips it can currently burn as
well
> as the 27128 and 27256.
just what I was thinking about for the AP-64e. some hardware and software
changes would be needed...
1. 27128 & 27256 & 27512 EPROMs use a programming voltage of ~12.5V instead
of the 21-25V Programming Voltage on most 2716, 2732 & 2764 EPROMs. This
would be fairly easily achievable on the TL497AC by switching in different
resistance in the voltage divider on pin 1.
2. The programming Pulse Width on the larger EPROMs is generally smaller
overall, and the algorythm is different. pulse width (or widths) is anywhere
from 0.5ms to over 50ms (total). this would require a change to the firmware
on the card.
3. Another potential problem is that the algorithm for burning some EPROMs
requires raising Vcc to 6V during programming. This is not that easy to
achieve on the existing card. I'm not sure it is necessary but at least
could cause a problem for some types.
I have started to hand disassemble some of the firmware on the AP64e, but
it's fairly slow going. If I do get anywhere with it, the first mods I'd
like to make is to be able to select 27128 and 27256 for reading, and remove
the 27128 mod to some extent making it more automatic. The extra unused pins
on the 6821 PIA could be used as address lines for the destination EPROM, or
possible to change the Programming Voltage via some switching circuitry.
Mark
Patrick Schaefer
> 1. 27128 & 27256 & 27512 EPROMs use a programming voltage of ~12.5V instead
> of the 21-25V Programming Voltage on most 2716, 2732 & 2764 EPROMs. This
> would be fairly easily achievable on the TL497AC by switching in different
> resistance in the voltage divider on pin 1.
Closing S1-7 connects a Zener diode (D2) to the Vpp line that reduces
Vpp from 25V to 21V (for 2764 chips). You can use the same technique to
get 12,5V.
Patrick
Mark Cummings
news:3E8EE90A...@epost.de...
that's a zener ??? oops looks like you just found the first error on my
diagram. I thought that was just a normal 1N914 or similar providing
negative spike protection, but a zener makes so much more sense, and it also
explains the 120 Ohm resistor feeding it. I wish they would have used ZD2
instead of D2 on the board, then I would have known.
thanks for the correction. I've already updated the diagram for those that
have the first version and want to d/l the corrected version...
http://home.iprimus.com.au/figjams/apple2/AP64Ecct.PDF
Mark
Mark Cummings
> it's fairly slow going.
someone suggested I use ORCA Disassembler to make it easier/quicker. Looking
into it I think the ORCA Disassembler is only suitable for 16-bit Apple IIGS
disassembly.
Am I right ?, or is there some way to make it disassemble 8-bit code ?, or
Is there another similar Symbolic Disassembler that would be suitable for
8-bit code ? (not necessarily on an Apple 2, but preferably)
Mark
Marsha
"Mark Cummings" <NOTfi...@primus.com.au> wrote in
news:3e917...@news.iprimus.com.au:
> someone suggested I use ORCA Disassembler to make it easier/quicker.
> Looking into it I think the ORCA Disassembler is only suitable for
> 16-bit Apple IIGS disassembly.
( all comments are re: the graphical disassembler, I haven't used the
scripted version )
There are a couple of 'Defines' to set the accumulator and X/Y registers to
8 bit for disassembly.
It will load S16, prodos 8 .System, binary, and several other executable
file types.
Depending on what assembler you use to reassembl the code, you would need
to define origin, register size and mabey even convert from Object Module
Format to straight binary file.
Marsha
Mark Cummings
news:Xns9356B28E0DAFD...@206.141.192.32...
<snip>
> Depending on what assembler you use to reassembl the code, you would need
> to define origin, register size and mabey even convert from Object Module
> Format to straight binary file.
currently I have disassembled the code using the ORCA/M v4.1 Assembler using
a //e. The source file created only just fits in the available RAM. I'm not
sure if I'll have room to make comments without breaking the code in half.
One problem/question I have with ORCA/M...
Is it possible to disassemble the code as if were located elsewhere in
memory ?
For example: I copied the Expansion ROM off the card from $C800..$CFFF down
to $2800.$2FFF while the Expansion ROM was still active, saved that to disk
then disassembled that. This was necessary because of the way that the Apple
expansion cards have to disable the expansion ROM when first accessed. This
includes the disk interface, which is used during the save process. The
unfortunate side affect is that some absolute jumps are no longer correct.
ie a JSR to $CA96 is still the same after it is relocated, however the code
has moved. Obviously if I re-assemble it with an ORG of $C800 things should
be OK, but if I modify the code later, there will need to be a lot of
editing.
Any thoughts or workarounds ?
Mark
Laine Houghton
> currently I have disassembled the code using the ORCA/M v4.1 Assembler
using
> a //e. The source file created only just fits in the available RAM. I'm
not
> sure if I'll have room to make comments without breaking the code in half.
Feel free to break the code into several smaller chunks, Say
rom01,rom02,rom03 etc...
At the end of rom01 source type append rom02 etc.
> has moved. Obviously if I re-assemble it with an ORG of $C800 things
should
> be OK, but if I modify the code later, there will need to be a lot of
> editing.
>
> Any thoughts or workarounds ?
Make the binary file auxtype $C800. and generate again.
Orca loads all binaries into the same memory space and uses the auxtype as a
reference when generating.
I'd be interested in a copy of the binary to play with. Been awhile since
used those programs.
Mark Devito
Thanks in advance.
mark
Michael J. Mahon
“USB Universal Programmer”, which is very reasonably priced and supported
by Windows software. It can easily read and burn EPROMS (and much else).
I have had and used several Apple II EPROM cards, and though they
programmed the parts of the day well enough, they were not (able to be)
kept up with memory densities and technologies, even prior to 1990.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
waynej...@gmail.com
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9r6vH-4NK4NZGRjNjA1YzItNzgwYS00M2I1LTk2MjMtNjY4NjQ5ZDU1ZTZj?hl=en&resourcekey=0-PVqPB7KwJPxQU-_baMOGTA
Antony Mauget
> Hello to anyone still out there on this thread. I have been searching the
> Internet high and low for gerbers and rom image dumps in order to build an
> AP-64e. Seems like Apple II card-based burners are hard to come by these
> days so DIY is the best solution. Does anyone here have board gerbers
> and/or the ROM dump?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> mark
>
No gerbers here but you can find the schematics on Asimov
/pub/apple_II/documentation/hardware/schematics/AP-64e EPROM
Programmer-Schematics.pdf
--
________________
Antony
Apple II forever