Best Apple II Diagnostics Programs

[db]

Sorry for yet another tedious "best" question but I'm still putting together my essential disks collection for my IIc. Hey, they provide an opportunity for seasoned Apple II users to stroll down memory lane and provide much needed info for Apple II noobs such as myself. So, this time I'm wondering which diagnostics programs you think are best? I've done a bit of reading up and so far have Apex II. Are there any better? What's your opinion?
In the meantime, here's a little quid pro quo, Clarice: Please enjoy wandering around Toronto at night circa 1984; the same year my IIc was made :-P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe4nDMiHGv0
(Note the copious amount of pizza vendors and the fact that Blood Simple is playing at the cinema. Ah, Night Walk. ;>)

[db]

What? No one likes Night Walk?! Or you just don't have any recommendations?

[Michael J. Mahon]

db <darrenbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What? No one likes Night Walk?! Or you just don't have any recommendations?

I've never found Apple "diagnostic" programs to be very useful.

If a system works well enough to boot them, then there's not much wrong
with it. ;-)

-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

[Bill Buckels]

"Michael J. Mahon" <mjm...@aol.com> wrote:

I've never found Apple "diagnostic" programs to be very useful.

di - From Ancient Greek Meaning two, twice, or double
agnostic - holds no position on a topic.

I'd second that but I've never used one!

[db]

> di - From Ancient Greek Meaning two, twice, or double
>
> agnostic - holds no position on a topic.

Right, so that one can arrive at an unbiased conclusion about something...but I get your point.

> I'd second that but I've never used one!

That's 2 for none. Any other opinions?

[Bill Buckels]

"db" <darrenbe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Right, so that one can arrive at an unbiased conclusion about
something...

According to an esteemed colleague my "cute, but faulty warping of the
language" (unquote) is absolutely not right....

Diagnostic is an inflection of diagnosis, which according to his dictionary:

"ORIGIN late 17th cent.: modern Latin, from Greek, from diagignoskein
'distinguish, discern,' from dia 'apart' + gignoskein 'recognize, know.'"

Bill

[db]

> According to an esteemed colleague my "cute, but faulty warping of the
>
> language" (unquote) is absolutely not right....
>
>
>
> Diagnostic is an inflection of diagnosis, which according to his dictionary:
>
>
>
> "ORIGIN late 17th cent.: modern Latin, from Greek, from diagignoskein
>
> 'distinguish, discern,' from dia 'apart' + gignoskein 'recognize, know.'"
>
>
>
> Bill

No, i liked your etymology and that is the literal meaning based on the origin of the word. In it you can see how the beginnings of scientific thinking contain their own assumptions about the nature of reality: 1) that there is a "thing in-itself" and 2) that there's a way of judging that allows us to see beyond our own preconceptions and projections about the world to know that thing apart from them. I guess there wouldn't be science without that fundamental leap of faith though. Epistemology is fascinating stuff but I was really just looking for something that can tell me if my IIc is running within expected parameters ; >

[Bill Buckels]

"db" <darrenbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was really just looking for something that can tell me if my IIc is
> running within expected parameters ; >

Try this link:

http://apple2online.com/web_documents/apple_ii_diagnostics_review.pdf

Bill

[db]

> Try this link:
>
>
>
> http://apple2online.com/web_documents/apple_ii_diagnostics_review.pdf
>
>
>
> Bill

Thanks! Nice review. I think it's the one I read before but I couldn't find it so thanks for giving me the link. Bit Banger...Ha! Sounds like a pornographic Atari game. It's probably what they should've called Custer's Revenge ; > : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY2AqKCpGkk

[Bill Buckels]

"Bill Buckels" <bbuc...@mts.net> wrote:
> Try this link:
> http://apple2online.com/web_documents/apple_ii_diagnostics_review.pdf

Asimov has the disk images of Master Diagnostics V7.0 for both the IIe and
the IIc mentioned in the article.

Bill

x--- snip --x

According to the doc on Asimov:

DOS 3.3 disk.

Self-booting and is for use with the Apple IIc computer ONLY.

NIKROM v7.0 MASTER DIAGNOSTICS FOR THE
APPLE IIC COMPUTER.

IT CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING DIAGNOSTIC TESTS;
ROM TEST
80 COLUMNS TEST
MOUSE SCALE TEST
RAM TEST
DISK DRIVE ANALYZER TEST
PORT ANALYSIS TEST
MONITOR ROUTINES TEST

[db]

> Asimov has the disk images of Master Diagnostics V7.0 for both the IIe and
>
> the IIc mentioned in the article.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> x--- snip --x
>
>
>
> According to the doc on Asimov:
>
>
>
> DOS 3.3 disk.
>
>
>
> Self-booting and is for use with the Apple IIc computer ONLY.
>
>
>
> NIKROM v7.0 MASTER DIAGNOSTICS FOR THE
>
> APPLE IIC COMPUTER.
>
>
>
> IT CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING DIAGNOSTIC TESTS;
>
> ROM TEST
>
> 80 COLUMNS TEST
>
> MOUSE SCALE TEST
>
> RAM TEST
>
> DISK DRIVE ANALYZER TEST
>
> PORT ANALYSIS TEST
>
> MONITOR ROUTINES TEST

Funny! I just downloaded it before I checked your message. I'll give it a whirl later and check it out. Thanks.

[Antoine Vignau]

The question is "what do you want to test?"

Here, at csa2, you will find plenty of HW engineers/experts, they can tell you which chip is broken based on its odor/flavor/whatevOr. By a look at a motherboard, they would tell why the fifth dot of the seventh row of the Apple II text screen is broken.

I understand why they do not think diagnostics programs are useful!

So, what do you want to test?
av

ps. I am not a member of *that* community :-)

[db]

> So, what do you want to test?
>
> av
>
>
>
> ps. I am not a member of *that* community :-)

Nothing specific yet. I'm new to the Apple II and just wanted something to make sure my machine is working properly. Perhaps, one day I too will be a grizzled, old prospector, diagnosing my computer by tasting the chips but for now I'll settle for some decent software...just until I learn a little more ; >

[Antoine Vignau]

Ok. Thank you.
Iirc MECC had some usefl diagnostics software, to be found on asimov (check the index file)

[Michael J. Mahon]

The good news is that a working computer will almost always remain working,
and you can usually tell when a failure occurs. Therefore, you can safely
assume a computer is working properly until it becomes obvious that it's
not working. ;-)

Running a diagnostic (except for disk speed, occasionally) is fun the first
time, but rapidly becomes boring.

Very occasionally, if you think gremlins are afoot, running a RAM exerciser
(even overnight) can often locate a. bad/marginal chip.

But again, your best test for correct operation is your normal use of the
machine.

[Sean Fahey]

On Friday, July 26, 2013 10:55:02 PM UTC-5, Bill Buckels wrote:

> Asimov has the disk images of Master Diagnostics V7.0 for both the IIe and
> the IIc mentioned in the article.

Dr. Nick Romano still sells the NIKROM diagnostics, and last I heard, was unhappy they're on Asimov. <shrug>

[Bill Buckels]

"Sean Fahey" <a2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Dr. Nick Romano still sells the NIKROM diagnostics, and last I heard, was
>unhappy they're on Asimov. <shrug>

Well said young fellah...

I wish that Thomas Fenwick, Jim Goodnow II, and Harry Suckow (the 3 orginal
principals of Aztec C) had archived all their source code, manuals,
utilities and released versions and put them in a vault somewhere.

Instead, when they drifted apart, and later when Harry needed the space
after he closed Manx Software (Aztec C) altogether, it all became somehow
lost forever to us all.

We could debate the evils of capitalism where MicroSoft became a clear
winner in the PC C then C++ compiler market after the eventual decline then
demise of Borland International (now somewhat Embarcadero), and the earlier
decline and demise of other players like George Eberhardt's (Computer
Innovations) C80. (George has boxes of stuff for me but no way to get it to
Canada and needs a friendly US drop-off point). There are many paralells on
the Apple side as well. And much credit goes to the netizens of csa2 for
preserving what is left.

The domination of Microsoft and focused target markets may have seemed ok to
us at the time, but in my mind, products like an MS-DOS based (or Win32
based) cross-compiler for the GS would look pretty good right now to some of
us. I have ORCA C (Had Think C at one point on my IIci.) but I can still
dream about what could have been.

We can't change history of course, but some of us are doing what we can to
prevent history from vanishing, and includes Patrick Kane and the Asimov
team.

I don't know Dr. Romano, nor is it any of my business what he does with his
intellectual property from an earlier era. In my own case, what I do for
these old platforms can be freely used with or without attribution (of
course I would like to be mentioned but at this point who cares! I am not a
millionaire yet at 60 so it is unlikely that I will ever be... and sitting
behind a desk is unhealthy for me now, so the potential for one or two sales
of old stuff will not immortalize me, or provide my family with enough
groceries to hold-back my work from still being used by anyone who has the
desire to do so).

So I will now join you... <shrug>

And commend all others to unselfishly engage in a group shrug...

Having said that, for major works like Ciderpress and AppleWin, I think that
the fellahs who have contributed are brilliant and should enjoy attribution
for their efforts and not have others take credit for their unselfish work
and community service.

Bill

[joe....@gmail.com]

I realize this thread is two years old, but I am hoping to locate "Master Diagnostics IIc" as I have a //c exhibiting some ailments and am looking for the best tools I can find to troubleshoot.

It's not on asimov anymore and I can't locate it for sale - any leads?

Joe

[awanderin]

Perhaps take a look at macgui.com? That site has a good hoard of
files.

--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com

[Joe Boyle]

Thanks Jerry, found it there.