Apple IIc Plus System Disks?
Your name
all in the original boxes. There is a joystick, but no mouse. Everything's
hooked up and working, but I have no disks. It's been so many yeas since
I've used something this ancient. I'm 42 and have been using computers
since the mid-80s, but can't recall what's needed to get any use out of
this. Guess I need to wrap my head around the idea of a system where each
program you use requires disks that be loaded. My question is where to
begin? Can anything be done without disks? What commands can be used? What
is a good resource for the beginner with this system? Any tips or pointers
are appreciated. Thanks, Gary
P.S. I have a whole box of old Mac software from a system I briefly had
years ago. Can any of that be used?
Please reply here as email reply is fake. -Gary
Linards Ticmanis
> Hello, I recently acquired an Apple IIc Plus computer, monitor and stand
> all in the original boxes. There is a joystick, but no mouse. Everything's
> hooked up and working, but I have no disks. It's been so many yeas since
> I've used something this ancient. I'm 42 and have been using computers
> since the mid-80s, but can't recall what's needed to get any use out of
> this. Guess I need to wrap my head around the idea of a system where each
> program you use requires disks that be loaded. My question is where to
> begin? Can anything be done without disks? What commands can be used? What
> is a good resource for the beginner with this system? Any tips or pointers
> are appreciated. Thanks, Gary
On the non-Plus //c, you can enter BASIC and play around a bit even
without a disk, by pressing Ctrl-Reset at the startup screen that
prompts you to insert a disk. But of course you can't load or save any
programs then, so it's really only useful for playing around. I guess
this will work on the //c+ too, though I've never tried it as I don't
own one.
As for BASIC, google e.g. for "The Applesoft Tutorial" and "The
Applesoft BASIC II Reference Manual", or "A Touch of Applesoft BASIC".
These were original Apple manuals shipped with various computer models,
they should get you started. Applesoft BASIC is similar to the BASIC
used on the Commodore VIC-20 and C64 (only better), so if you ever used
one of these, you shouldn't find it hard to get started.
Also, you should be able to start the self-test by powering up while
holding down the "Option" key (which corresponds to the "Closed Apple"
key of previous Apple II models).
Get your hands on some DD (720K) 3.5" disks (1.44 MB HD disks will NOT
work right), and then check out ADTPro http://adtpro.sf.net to transfer
an operating system (most likely ProDOS 2.0.3) or anything else to a
//c+ disk. You'll need a PC or modern Mac with a RS-232 serial port (can
be built-in or an external USB adapter), and you'll have to buy or build
a null-modem cable that fits the //c+ serial port and whatever RS-232
connector you have on the PC side. It's all explained very well on that
web site.
What's unfortunately NOT possible without highly special hardware or
extremely evil hacks: writing a disk the //c+ can read on a PC floppy
drive, or vice-versa.
> P.S. I have a whole box of old Mac software from a system I briefly had
> years ago. Can any of that be used?
No, unfortunately the //c+ is not at all Mac compatible. But you can use
almost all software written for the Apple II, II+, //e and //c on it,
which is thousands of titles including many classic games, most of which
can be found on the web somewhere. Many will not work from 3.5" disks
though, since the most common storage medium for the Apple II series by
far was the 5.25" floppy disk, so I'd get an external 5.25" disk drive
if I were you. All Apple made 5.25" disk drives with the 19-pin
connector should work equally well on the //c+ as far as I know. Such as
the Apple Disk 5.25", the Unidisk 5.25" and the DuoDisk 5.25". You can
use the old "Disk II" type drive with a simple adapter (the connector is
different but the signals are the same, so it's just a matter of
wiring). I don't know whether the //c+ will auto-boot from the external
drive, if it does not, enter BASIC as described above, type PR#6 and hit
return. Many older games will require "Caps Lock" to be activated since
the early Apple II models didn't support lower-case letters at all.
--
Linards Ticmanis
schmidtd
> Hello, I recently acquired an Apple IIc Plus computer, monitor and stand
> all in the original boxes.
Wow. Nice find. The IIc Plus is the fastest stock Apple II produced.
> Everything's hooked up and working, but I have no disks.
A common occurrence, for sure. You'll want to get familiar with
ADTPro, which will give you a (relatively) easy avenue to move digital
disk images down to your IIc+ for reconstitution to physical floppies.
http://adtpro.sourceforge.net
Take a look at the serial connections part, then the bootstrapping
part. That will get you some experience in building a bootable floppy
disk, and will be good practice for making more.
> It's been so many yeas since
> I've used something this ancient. I'm 42 and have been using computers
> since the mid-80s, but can't recall what's needed to get any use out of
> this. Guess I need to wrap my head around the idea of a system where each
> program you use requires disks that be loaded.
Yep, this is before the age of non-floppy media. Nowadays we have
various solid-state "hard drives" that can hold a lot of information,
but even those are up against some architectural limitations of the
operating systems of the day.
> My question is where to begin? Can anything be done without disks?
Hit Ctrl-Reset after powering the thing on to get to an Applesoft
prompt. This is in the era of interpreted BASIC at the command
prompt.
10 PRINT "HELLO, WORLD!"
RUN
> What commands can be used? What
> is a good resource for the beginner with this system? Any tips or pointers
> are appreciated.
Hmmm. That's pretty open-ended. Do you want to program in BASIC? Do
you want to program in assembly language? Or do you just want to run
programs that are already out there?
> P.S. I have a whole box of old Mac software from a system I briefly had
> years ago. Can any of that be used?
Nope. The disks themselves might be useful to you, though, as DSDD
media is getting harder to come by.
Steven Hirsch
> On May 23, 10:03 am, Your name<bo...@fake.com> wrote:
>> Hello, I recently acquired an Apple IIc Plus computer, monitor and stand
>> all in the original boxes.
>
> Wow. Nice find. The IIc Plus is the fastest stock Apple II produced.
And many of them lend themselves to further hot-rodding via oscillator
replacement :-)
Gary
existing programs, as well as some BASIC programming. I was looking
through my old computer books for info on the Apple II and found the
title "Computer Graphics Primer" by Mitchell Waite and was published by
Howard W. Sams. It's copyrighted 1979, but mine is a fifth printing from
1982. The book discusses the graphics capabilities of systems available
at the time, but has BASIC code which the author wrote on an Apple II.
I've already started typing in some of the programs and would like to be
able to save them. I have hundreds of old floppies and should be able
reformat some DSDD disks, but I guess I need a system first.
All of this is bringing back vague memories of 9th grade "Micro
Computer" class. We did some BASIC programming on Apples, but I forget
which model. It was mildly interesting, but programming computers was the
last thing on my mind in 1984. It's also reawakened memories of typing
programs into the TI-99 my brother and I had.
I've since learned that the elderly woman who owned the computer took all
the disks and some (presumably Apple) computer books to Goodwill about
six weeks ago. Apparently she "didn't think anyone would want the
disks." !?! At least she saved the original manuals.
-Gary
Your name <bo...@fake.com> wrote in
news:VOtCp.7$Ky...@en-nntp-16.dc1.easynews.com:
Linards Ticmanis
On 05/24/2011 05:20 AM, Gary wrote:
> I've already started typing in some of the programs and would like to be
> able to save them. I have hundreds of old floppies and should be able
> reformat some DSDD disks, but I guess I need a system first.
That's right, unless you boot from a system disk, no dice. Older Apples
had built-in firmware for saving to audio cassette tape, but this one
doesn't. And booting from disk will erase any BASIC program in memory at
that time. So unless you FIRST boot from disk and THEN type in your
program, forget about saving it.
One more thing: The physical floppy disk format of your computer is the
same as that used by Macs for 400K and 800K disks. However the files are
structured in a different way. That means that normal Mac 400K MFS and
800K HFS floppies are still unreadable and unwritable in your //c+. On
the other hand, all old Macs, with operating systems System 7 through
Mac OS 9.2.2, and with a built-in floppy drive, would be able to read
and write "ProDOS" disks for your computer; you can select "ProDOS" when
formatting a floppy on these computers.
That can be a roundabout route to "sneaker-net" software to your new
//c+ if you don't get ADTPro to work - you can e.g. put a DiskCopy disk
image on a PC formatted 1.44MB disk on the PC, then write the image to
an 800K disk on the Mac which would then be bootable on the Apple //c+.
But generally ADTPro is far more convenient.
--
Linards Ticmanis
D Finnigan
>
> And booting from disk will erase any BASIC program in memory at
> that time.
My understanding was that for all practical purposes, this is true. The
BASIC program appears to have vanished.
But it's still there; only the pointers in RAM have been changed to mark a
zero-length program.
--
]DF$
Mac GUI Vault - A source for retro Apple II and
Macintosh computing.
http://macgui.com/vault/
Linards Ticmanis
[booting]
> My understanding was that for all practical purposes, this is true. The
> BASIC program appears to have vanished.
>
> But it's still there; only the pointers in RAM have been changed to mark a
> zero-length program.
Doesn't the boot load happen at $800, overwriting the beginning of the
program? And doesn't ProDOS get loaded to $2000 first, overwriting
whatever is there? Or am I mixing things up?
--
Linards Ticmanis
schmidtd
Yep - the loader and relocator walk all over $800. (Beneath Apple
ProDOS, pp. 5-10, 5-11)
D Finnigan
Righto. I got it confused with the NEW command. NEW is the one that resets
the pointers but leaves the program intact. I verified with an emulator that
$800 gets nuked by DOS booting with PR#6.
bloomer_au
I was looking
> through my old computer books for info on the Apple II and found the
> title "Computer Graphics Primer" by Mitchell Waite and was published by
> Howard W. Sams. It's copyrighted 1979, but mine is a fifth printing from
> 1982. The book discusses the graphics capabilities of systems available
> at the time, but has BASIC code which the author wrote on an Apple II.
That title dinged a bell in my memory and I went over to the shelf
behind where I sit at my Mac as I type this. "Computer Graphics
Primer" is still over there with all the Apple II manuals. I have a
2nd printing. The pictures on the cover looked so cool, I guess as a
kid I didn't necessarily believe they had come from the Apple II. But
looking at them again now, I think they all do.
- Wade