The 'Lost' Apple IIgs Games
Tempest
discovered that several IIgs games that have yet to be released do
exist as prototypes (or were at least reported to exist). Does anyone
have any information on these IIgs games?
Fairy Tale Adventure
Sword of Sodan (not the 3 level demo)
Bard's Tale III
Renegade
Sim City
Old posts seem to indicate that these games were either finished but
not released or at least started, but there really hasn't been any talk
of them in almost 7 years. Any new information?
Don
digs up the finished product or prototypes somewhere.
I follow some Atari websites and they're still digging up game
prototypes for systems like the Atari 5200 20 years after they were
initially created. Games like Tempest, Super Pac-Man, etc. that were
created back in the 80's but were never completed and/or released for
various reasons.
Getting this back to an Apple II discussion, wasn't there some talk
that a IIGS version of Ultima VI exists somewhere as well. Since I
have a IIe, is there any unreleased games/programs for the 8 bit
machines there perhaps are floating around as well?
I hope that any unreleased apps/prototypes for the IIGS (and any other
II) can be found and released for all to enjoy.
Don
Mark Percival
> Sim City
This one I believe was a Burger Bill Heineman project that didn't get
too far before it was canceled. Maxis Software, the owners of Sim
City, wanted a very large licensing fee that was way beyond what the
Apple IIgs could ever hope to support.
-- Mark
D i s k M a k e r 8
http://www.syndicomm.com/~mark/DM8/
Tempest
prototypes for systems like the Atari 5200 20 years after they were
initially created. Games like Tempest, Super Pac-Man, etc. that were
created back in the 80's but were never completed and/or released for
various reasons.
You mean like this one? http://www.atariprotos.com :)
Yep, we're always finding new Atari prototypes. I've got two
previously unknown 2600 games right here that I need to get pages up
for (stay tuned!)
>>Getting this back to an Apple II discussion, wasn't there some talk
that a IIGS version of Ultima VI exists somewhere as well.
Yep there's another one I'd love to see. However since Origin is such
a major company, I'd bet they guard the source pretty tightly (assuming
it exists). I doubt we'll ever see that one.
Tempest
heuser...@freenet.de
> source pretty tightly (assuming it exists). I doubt we'll ever see that one.
As Origin was bought by Electronic Arts several years ago I doubt that
the source will ever get released.
The probably won't find it, even if they wanted to...
bye
Marcus
Mark Percival
> Getting this back to an Apple II discussion, wasn't there some talk
> that a IIGS version of Ultima VI exists somewhere as well.
The original Ultima VI project was planned for the Apple IIgs but
didn't get very far. It was obvious to Origin that Apple's support for
the IIgs was fading thus the switch to the PC platform.
Mitchell Spector
>After reading through many old posts (most from the late 90's), I've
>discovered that several IIgs games that have yet to be released do
>exist as prototypes (or were at least reported to exist). Does anyone
>have any information on these IIgs games?
>
>Fairy Tale Adventure
It was listed in the "Games Guide" in the May 1988 issue of inCider
magazine, complete with screen shot and system requirements. Never
heard or saw anything beyond that, just a rumour it was in development.
inCider also reported several other IIgs games being in development,
such as: Operation Wolf, It Came from the Desert, Heatwave, Flintstones,
and had printed IIgs ads for Renegade, Bubble Bobble and S.D.I.
>Sword of Sodan (not the 3 level demo)
Scott Patterson was in the middle of writing the port when he abruptly
left the project. Then Jimmy Huey stepped in to replace him but for some
reason or another, Discovery Software cancelled the whole project (shrinking
IIgs market?). Apparently 70% of the game was completed but pretty unstable
and buggy.
Jimmy Huey has the source code and compiled beta version, so do at
least two former beta testers that frequented comp.sys.apple2. I asked,
begged, and pleaded to have a look but they all refused saying they had
signed an NDA with Discovery Software (which no longer exists). One of
them is Jeff Barbanell, he offered to sell it to me about a decade ago.
>Bard's Tale III
Bill Heineman had started work on it, never finished it though. He had
several other unfinished software projects, Mario Teaches Typing is one
that pops to mind.
>Renegade
Taito used to have ads claiming it was available for the IIgs (along with
Bubble Bobble). One person from Australia claimed he actually _had_ the
beta copy and described it to me, saying it was in of the same calibre as
Rastan, but I think he was pulling my leg about ever having had it.
Puzznic was finished by not commercially released; a leaked copy got
circulated though. No idea to this day whether Renegade, Bubble Bobble
or Operation Wolf were in development for the IIgs...it's all rumour.
>Sim City
Bill Heineman started it only to find out Maxis wanted a US$150,000
licensing fee to do the port. That killed any hope for it.
>Old posts seem to indicate that these games were either finished but
>not released or at least started, but there really hasn't been any talk
>of them in almost 7 years. Any new information?
Not much has changed, although the Apple IIGS Gaming Memory
Fairway did uncover a handful of lost games--some I'd never even
heard of before:
http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/the_fairway/unreleased.html
Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp is another lost game. Apparently from what
I could gather it had been fully completed and just not released. There's
also Ninjaforce's KABOOM! (a clone of Bomberman) which is playable
shape but not finished, and I'm not sure whether it ever will be.
Mitchell Spector
BLuRry
really pixelated-looking C64 version... not to mention good looking
versions for very obscure japanese computers... sheesh. (must have
been a good market for those other computers back then -- but those
things were never mentioned in the US)
PZ
Ultima VI - Supposedly Richard Garriot, as a few years ago, still had
an Apple II system.
>
> Bill Heineman had started work on it, never finished it though. He had
>several other unfinished software projects, Mario Teaches Typing is one
>that pops to mind.
Supposedly Heineman had AppleWorks GS 2.0 - 98% completed but bailed
after contract issues with Quality Computers.
Someone can always try to contact via: www.burgerbill.com
- Paul
Tempest
Wow! I was not expecting that...
Has anyone ever tried to contact her about her old stuff? Some
programmers don't mind talking about their past programs, while others
won't give you the time of day if you mention it.
Olivier ZARDINI
news:qago22d8pf26ivjf5...@4ax.com:
>>Sim City
>
> Bill Heineman started it only to find out Maxis wanted a US$150,000
> licensing fee to do the port. That killed any hope for it.
>
Sim City GS exists. It runs under GS/OS with Apple interface (windows,
scroll bar, etc). I don't remember is the full game was done buy it looked
like a playable software. Bill couldn't give it because of rights issues.
Olivier
Michael J. Mahon
>>Bard's Tale III
>
> Ultima VI - Supposedly Richard Garriot, as a few years ago, still had
> an Apple II system.
>
>
>> Bill Heineman had started work on it, never finished it though. He had
>>several other unfinished software projects, Mario Teaches Typing is one
>>that pops to mind.
>
>
> Supposedly Heineman had AppleWorks GS 2.0 - 98% completed but bailed
> after contract issues with Quality Computers.
So the stories about the source being completely unmanageable were
just spin?
-michael
Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
Roger Johnstone
> PZ wrote:
>>
>> Supposedly Heineman had AppleWorks GS 2.0 - 98% completed but bailed
>> after contract issues with Quality Computers.
>
> So the stories about the source being completely unmanageable were
> just spin?
I don't think so, not if the following were even only half true. This is
part of a message from Jerry Kindall of Quality Computers announcing the
official death of AppleWorks GS. It was posted to comp.sys.apple2 on 23
June 1994.
"When we took over AppleWorks and AppleWorks GS, we assumed that
updating
AppleWorks GS was going to be a fairly straightforward task.
Unfortunately,
we were wrong. The source code for AWGS is 7 megabytes in size. Those
who
have seen it have called it the most poorly organized and documented
source
code they've ever laid eyes on. Claris was unable to provide us with
any
form of documentation for the source code, nor were they able to provide
us
with their official bug list.
The source code was designed to build under an old version of MPW
(Macintosh Programmer's Workshop). I have it on good authority that
even
the old MPW wasn't actually capable of compiling the source code as it
was
provided to us; it seems likely that it was compiled in pieces and then
patched together by hand. We did not receive any documentation on this
process -- in fact, there probably never was any.
To give you an idea of how bad the AWGS source was, consider that it
took
Jim Merritt, who we originally contracted to lead the project, four
months
just to get the source code Claris sent us to produce an executable
version
of AppleWorks GS 1.1. Even then, the program was not 100% byte-for-byte
identical with the shipping version because of the hand-patching which
was
used in the original version.
Jim Merritt, as you may know, is no slouch. He's the one who, working
at
Apple, coordinated the development of the IIGS System 5 Finder, among
other
things. The original plan was for Merritt to divide the program among
several programmers (of his choosing) and have them work on the project
independently. Merritt would be responsible for coordinating things and
making sure all the program segments could be combined into a fully
functional program.
This turned out to be an impossibility, because the source code simply
was
not arranged in any coherent fashion. I've been told that there are
sections of the AppleWorks GS source code which exist mainly because
nobody
knows exactly what they do -- Claris was afraid that removing them would
cause the program to stop working!
At around the same time another programmer decided he wanted a shot at
it.
This programmer was Bill Heineman, author of Harmonie, Out Of This World,
and other programs, and renowned around the IIGS world as an extremely
competent programmer. As the weeks went by, we realized that it was
beyond
his abilities, as well.
A third team, led by Steve Disbrow, also had a look at AWGS. After
spending
a few weeks with the source code, Disbrow recommended to us that we
scrap
it and rewrite the entire AWGS application from scratch. This is, for
obvious reasons, an economic impossibility. So, after almost ten months
of
effort by the top programmers in the IIGS world, we have concluded that
the
task of creating a major upgrade is a near-impossible one."
--
Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand
http://roger.geek.nz/
________________________________________________________________________
No Silicon Heaven? Preposterous! Where would all the calculators go?
Kryten, from the Red Dwarf episode "The Last Day"
Hard Code
Mitchell Spector wrote:
> "Tempest" <tem...@atariprotos.com> wrote:
> Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp is another lost game. Apparently from what
> I could gather it had been fully completed and just not released. There's
> also Ninjaforce's KABOOM! (a clone of Bomberman) which is playable
> shape but not finished, and I'm not sure whether it ever will be.
DL2 was never ported to the GS, although there was a 16-disk greyscale
prototype of DL1. There was also a GS version Kung-Fu Master that was
passed around internally amongst a few cracking groups.
Tempest
based system with some massive cuts (or spanning across 30+ disks), as
the game was huge!
Grayscale? Why would they bother porting anything to the GS in
grayscale unless it was some kind of Mac port?
GS Kung-Fu Master? That wouldn't surprise me, KFM was ported to lots
of systems (including the Apple II and Atari 2600).
PZ
back. According to Heinemann, v2.0 was 98% completed, but work was
stopped because of QC's lack of ability to make payment. This could be
an issue with large 2-sided / 2-party point of views. I suppose if we
got Heinemann to release the source(s), we might know.
- Paul
Mitchell Spector
>Mitchell Spector wrote:
>> "Tempest" <tem...@atariprotos.com> wrote:
>> Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp is another lost game. Apparently from what
>> I could gather it had been fully completed and just not released. There's
>> also Ninjaforce's KABOOM! (a clone of Bomberman) which is playable
>> shape but not finished, and I'm not sure whether it ever will be.
>
>DL2 was never ported to the GS,
Are you certain? The manual that shipped with the game (for other
platforms) has loading instructions for the Apple IIGS within it. There
were rumours that it had been completed by Readsoft but its release
cancelled because of the declining Apple II market by 1992.
Here is what is printed in the manual:
-----------------------
Apple IIGS Owners
Before loading Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp, make a backup copy of each of
the disks and put them aside in case anything should happen to your original
disks.
After booting your Apple IIGS with a system disk or autobooting from a hard
disk, insert the Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp Disk 1 into the disk drive and
double click on the "Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp" icon to begin the game.
Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp for the Apple IIGS may be installed onto a hard
disk by copying all the files on all of the disks into a directory on the
hard disk and then clicking on the"Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp' icon in that
directory."
---------------------------
>although there was a 16-disk greyscale prototype of DL1.
I remember hearing about that. Did it ever get leaked into the public?
>There was also a GS version Kung-Fu Master that was
>passed around internally amongst a few cracking groups.
Do you mean "Sensei", the Karate Champ clone? Or an actual port of
Kung-Fu Master/Spartan X? If you're talking about the latter, I'd love to
have a look if someone out there has it.
Mitchell Spector
PZ
the last GS+ issues for their CD ROM project due to the fact that they
were layed out and published using a beta version of a new AWGS.
- Paul