Apple II Graphics
limtc
http://toastytech.com/about/myap.html
Double Hires sure is beautiful. Is there any places where I can find
good screenshot of Apple II Lores, Hires or Double Hires images?
I also remember seeing a Butterfly image as one of the original Apple
II screenshot - not sure Hires or Lores - that show off Apple II
graphics capability - anyone remember this? If yes, where can I find
this image?
Thanks.
mdj
> I also remember seeing a Butterfly image as one of the original Apple
> II screenshot - not sure Hires or Lores - that show off Apple II
> graphics capability - anyone remember this? If yes, where can I find
> this image?
There was a Butterfly image in the "Apple Presents the Apple IIe" (or
IIc) introduction disk in the "Colour or Black and White" menu item.
The same image (I think) also exists on the sample programs disk
(APPLE3) of Apple Pascal, to demonstrate the block draw procedure in
the TurtleGraphics unit
Matt
limtc
the Apple II computer.
Can any kind soul makes that image available on the web? Thanks!
magnusfalkirk
Thye Chean,
Here's a link to the software you're looking for on the Asimov sight:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/masters/model_specific/
Dean
limtc
looking for.
I remember something more colorful for Hires image, or maybe I am just
imagining thing, sign of getting old.
Is there any good Lores image available? I am pretty interested in
Lores graphics recently.
On 9月9日, 下午11时47分, magnusfalkirk <dean.pha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thye Chean,
>
> Here's a link to the software you're looking for on the Asimov sight:
>
> http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/masters/mode...
>
> Dean
heuser...@freenet.de
>
> Double Hires sure is beautiful. Is there any places where I can find
> good screenshot of Apple II Lores, Hires or Double Hires images?
Picture quality of emulation often looks too sterile, IMHO.
Blake Patterson of Byte Cellar has lots of good ones in his
flickr page:
http://flickr.com/photos/blakespot/sets/72157604441725927/
Including some from "Double Hires Ultima II Demo"...
And here are some of my older screenshots for comparison:
http://img225.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=74397_img_2446_122_411lo.jpg
http://img225.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=74657_img_2442_122_259lo.jpg
http://img176.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=74668_img_2443_122_526lo.jpg
http://img225.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=74670_img_2445_122_220lo.jpg
http://img199.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=75251_2400AD_122_46lo.jpg
http://img41.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=75261_Hera_122_699lo.jpg
http://img176.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=75269_I_Damiano_122_250lo.jpg
These aren't perfect, though, as the camera did introduce
some artefacts and the contrast is too high.
bye
Marcus
Andy McFadden
> > Double Hires sure is beautiful. Is there any places where I can find
> > good screenshot of Apple II Lores, Hires or Double Hires images?
>
> Picture quality of emulation often looks too sterile, IMHO.
I struggled with this a bit in CiderPress, which is why there are three
color conversion modes for DHR (plus black & white). Nothing quite matches
the //e DHR output, and the IIgs RGB monitor output is just plain bizarre
(e.g. the color of a pixel is affected by the colors of the pixels to
its left and right, but it still has the hard edges of an RGB image).
--
Send mail to fad...@fadden.com (Andy McFadden) - http://www.fadden.com/
Fight Internet Spam - http://spam.abuse.net/spam/ & http://spamcop.net/
heuser...@freenet.de
>
> I struggled with this a bit in CiderPress, which is why there are three
> color conversion modes for DHR (plus black & white).
CiderPress does a great job delivering a first impression
or for checking things. It's more than anybody could ask.
> Nothing quite matches the //e DHR output, and the IIgs RGB monitor output is just plain bizarre
> (e.g. the color of a pixel is affected by the colors of the pixels to
> its left and right, but it still has the hard edges of an RGB image).
You get similar results with standard hires graphics.
I experimented with color quality on a //e some time ago:
http://img217.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85538_img_2670_122_251lo.jpg
http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85540_img_2672_122_839lo.jpg
http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85548_img_2673_122_813lo.jpg
http://img153.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85564_img_2682_122_806lo.jpg
http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85590_img_2690_122_810lo.jpg
Note the "cop" (or is it a miner? ;-) and his color fringes.
Of course there'll always be the question what problems the
display itself adds...
However, I think we won't get an authentic looking emulation
image with a simple one to one translation or by replacing
the "theoretic" color with a presumably better one.
I also think that we need more than one or two pixels on
the host display for a single "Apple II pixel". Maybe
eight pixels (four by two) would give enough headroom for
simulation color fringing with gradients.
bye
Marcus
John B. Matthews
> mdj <mdj....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There was a Butterfly image in the "Apple Presents the Apple IIe" (or
> > IIc) introduction disk in the "Colour or Black and White" menu item.
> >
> > The same image (I think) also exists on the sample programs disk
> > (APPLE3) of Apple Pascal, to demonstrate the block draw procedure in
> > the TurtleGraphics unit
> I think I am looking for that one - it is an introduction to one of
> the Apple II computer.
>
> Can any kind soul makes that image available on the web? Thanks!
<http://sites.google.com/site/trashgod/butterfly>
Capturing a .png was easy; a graf file may raise a little dust:-)
--
John B. Matthews
trashgod at gmail dot com
home dot woh dot rr dot com slash jbmatthews
limtc
I just thought what I remember is a solid color butterfly (or
something else), not an outline one. But anyway, probably I am just
aging.
vladitx
> http://img217.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85538_img_2670_122_251lo.jpg
> http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85540_img_2672_122_839lo.jpg
> http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85548_img_2673_122_813lo.jpg
> http://img153.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85564_img_2682_122_806lo.jpg
> http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85590_img_2690_122_810lo.jpg
>
> Note the "cop" (or is it a miner? ;-) and his color fringes.
Beautiful! Marcus, where have you been one year ago ... :-)
Expect to be bothered after few months, when I sort some priority
things and get back to Apples. Marc Ressl will be quite interested too.
Andy McFadden
> You get similar results with standard hires graphics.
> I experimented with color quality on a //e some time ago:
>
> http://img217.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85538_img_2670_122_251lo.jpg
> http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85540_img_2672_122_839lo.jpg
> http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85548_img_2673_122_813lo.jpg
> http://img153.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85564_img_2682_122_806lo.jpg
> http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85590_img_2690_122_810lo.jpg
>
> Note the "cop" (or is it a miner? ;-) and his color fringes.
> Of course there'll always be the question what problems the
> display itself adds...
I actually put a "more than 6 colors" demo and hi-res screen shot onto the
CiderPress tutorial disk. IIRC the IIgs RGB display does show the "extra"
colors, so it's possible to get consistent results across different monitors.
The key to all of these is probably to transform from pixels to some
representation of a signal, and then pretend to be an NTSC display device
to convert back to pixels. Might be too slow for an emulator, but it could
certainly work for static screen shots.
Michael J. Mahon
> heuser...@freenet.de wrote:
>> You get similar results with standard hires graphics.
>> I experimented with color quality on a //e some time ago:
>>
>> http://img217.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85538_img_2670_122_251lo.jpg
>> http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85540_img_2672_122_839lo.jpg
>> http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85548_img_2673_122_813lo.jpg
>> http://img153.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85564_img_2682_122_806lo.jpg
>> http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85590_img_2690_122_810lo.jpg
>>
>> Note the "cop" (or is it a miner? ;-) and his color fringes.
>> Of course there'll always be the question what problems the
>> display itself adds...
>
>
> I actually put a "more than 6 colors" demo and hi-res screen shot onto the
> CiderPress tutorial disk. IIRC the IIgs RGB display does show the "extra"
> colors, so it's possible to get consistent results across different monitors.
>
> The key to all of these is probably to transform from pixels to some
> representation of a signal, and then pretend to be an NTSC display device
> to convert back to pixels. Might be too slow for an emulator, but it could
> certainly work for static screen shots.
Actually, using a simple mapping table, it fits nicely into an
emulator's timing budget--hopefully we'll see it soon.
With multiprocessors becoming common in home machines and even
laptops, the video rendering would make a good candidate for a
separate thread or process--just like the actual hardware. ;-)
-michael
AppleCrate II: An Apple II "blade server"!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."
Mitchell Spector
>heuser...@freenet.de wrote:
>> > Double Hires sure is beautiful. Is there any places where I can find
>> > good screenshot of Apple II Lores, Hires or Double Hires images?
>>
>> Picture quality of emulation often looks too sterile, IMHO.
I wholeheartedly agree. A large part of the problem are modern displays.
With old NTSC-based displays their higher dot pitch, scanlines, lack of
sharpness, etc gave the illusion of rounded pixels and colors seamlessly
blending into each other. Not to mention a form anti-aliasing, so images
looked less jagged and higher resolution than they really were. Modern
displays show images as blocky, terribly dithered and ugly looking.
When I emulate a game console or arcade machine, I prefer to output
it to my TV set (27" Sony CRT from 1989). And if I turn off interlacing, it's
virtually impossible to tell it apart from the real hardware.
>I struggled with this a bit in CiderPress, which is why there are three
>color conversion modes for DHR (plus black & white). Nothing quite matches
>the //e DHR output, and the IIgs RGB monitor output is just plain bizarre
I remember a 1986 issue of A+ (or was it inCider?) that did a side by
side photo comparison of Hi-Res and Double-Hi-Res graphics output from a
IIe and IIgs both connected to the *same* color composite display. The GS
did odd dithering and color pattern separation that actually differed from
the IIe! (we're not even talking about an RGB display here, just composite).
>(e.g. the color of a pixel is affected by the colors of the pixels to
>its left and right, but it still has the hard edges of an RGB image).
Is that the odd artificating you see in standard 6 color Hi-Res on
the IIgs? I've seen Double-Hi-Res colors appears as fringing on a
standard Hi-Res image--at least on my ROM 3, been such a long
while since I looked at my ROM 01's (e.g. a pixel to the left or right
might be yellow, red, brown, etc--colors that have no business being
in Hi-Res).
Mitchell Spector
Michael J. Mahon
> Andy McFadden <fad...@fadden.com> wrote:
>
>> heuser...@freenet.de wrote:
>>>> Double Hires sure is beautiful. Is there any places where I can find
>>>> good screenshot of Apple II Lores, Hires or Double Hires images?
>>> Picture quality of emulation often looks too sterile, IMHO.
>
> I wholeheartedly agree. A large part of the problem are modern displays.
> With old NTSC-based displays their higher dot pitch, scanlines, lack of
> sharpness, etc gave the illusion of rounded pixels and colors seamlessly
> blending into each other. Not to mention a form anti-aliasing, so images
> looked less jagged and higher resolution than they really were. Modern
> displays show images as blocky, terribly dithered and ugly looking.
>
> When I emulate a game console or arcade machine, I prefer to output
> it to my TV set (27" Sony CRT from 1989). And if I turn off interlacing, it's
> virtually impossible to tell it apart from the real hardware.
>
>> I struggled with this a bit in CiderPress, which is why there are three
>> color conversion modes for DHR (plus black & white). Nothing quite matches
>> the //e DHR output, and the IIgs RGB monitor output is just plain bizarre
>
> I remember a 1986 issue of A+ (or was it inCider?) that did a side by
> side photo comparison of Hi-Res and Double-Hi-Res graphics output from a
> IIe and IIgs both connected to the *same* color composite display. The GS
> did odd dithering and color pattern separation that actually differed from
> the IIe! (we're not even talking about an RGB display here, just composite).
The Apple II line, with the sole exception of the IIgs, generates NTSC
video "directly", by simply outputing a 14.318MHz stream of bits that
are either 1 or 0 (with the exception of the blacker-than-black sync, of
course). (In the case of hi-res, the 7MHz bit stream can be considered
to be a 14MHz stream with each bit repeated.)
All of the characteristics of Apple II video are a consequence of the
interaction of this binary stream being interpreted as an NTSC composite
video signal by a composite monitor.
The IIgs also generates a 14MHz bit stream for the traditional Apple II
video modes, but it converts them all to RGB for its native display. To
produce NTSC video, it re-converts the synthetic RGB signal to an actual
chroma signal and luminance signal, then mixes them to create a true
composite signal.
This means that IIgs composite output is *not* an Apple II video stream,
but is a composite signal synthesized from its RGB interpretation of
an Apple II video stream.
As noted above, that RGB interpretation is relatively unsophisticated,
and does not reproduce many of the subtleties that result when the
raw bit stream is interpreted by an NTSC monitor.
Although the native RGB characteristics of the IIgs in its native SHR
modes allows for very beautiful graphics, its hardware is incapable of
producing the simple NTSC video displays that were unique to the Apple
II line of computers. This causes the IIgs to be a relatively poor
machine for displaying the graphics that were designed for earlier
Apple II machines.
>> (e.g. the color of a pixel is affected by the colors of the pixels to
>> its left and right, but it still has the hard edges of an RGB image).
>
> Is that the odd artificating you see in standard 6 color Hi-Res on
> the IIgs? I've seen Double-Hi-Res colors appears as fringing on a
> standard Hi-Res image--at least on my ROM 3, been such a long
> while since I looked at my ROM 01's (e.g. a pixel to the left or right
> might be yellow, red, brown, etc--colors that have no business being
> in Hi-Res).
All color on an Apple II is, in fact, "artifact color", but the blending
and fringing you see are the result of rapid transitions between
artifact colors that exceed the chroma bandwidth of an NTSC monitor.
Bill Garber
"Michael J. Mahon" <mjm...@aol.com> wrote in message news:8oidnQacacFSFFXV...@comcast.com...
Everybody got that now? I'm sure that Michael is
sick of repeating it, or, maybe he's not. ;-)
Bill Garber from GS-Electronics
http://www.garberstreet.com
Linards Ticmanis
> The Apple II line, with the sole exception of the IIgs, generates NTSC
> video "directly", by simply outputing a 14.318MHz stream of bits that
> are either 1 or 0 (with the exception of the blacker-than-black sync, of
> course). (In the case of hi-res, the 7MHz bit stream can be considered
> to be a 14MHz stream with each bit repeated.)
Of course single 14MHz bits can appear in Hi-Res where there's a
transition between the two color palettes. Setting bit 7 of any byte in
Hi-Res simply delays the output of the bits of that byte by one DHR
pixel width (one-half Hi-Res pixel width). If one byte is delayed and
the next isn't, the last pixel of the delayed byte will be only half a
standard hi-res pixel wide, which can be used to get a vertical line in
non-standard-hires colors. The same can happen at the right edge of the
screen (the black border acts like undelayed bytes with a value of zero).
--
Linards Ticmanis
Michael J. Mahon
Thanks, Linards, for pointing that out.
In fact, it's the cut off "7MHz bits" that result in the non-hi-res
colors Mitchell referred to in some cases when the high bit changes
or the first or last pixel on a line is cut off by the blanking window,
causing a darker color. Note that if one byte is not delayed and the
next is, the "7MHz bit" may be extended by 50%, resulting in a non-
standard lighter color.
Roger Johnstone
Dazzle Draw included a very impressive butterfly as a demo picture, but
it's double hi-res so probably not the one you're thinking of.
Screenshot here http://toastytech.com/about/myap.html
--
Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
Alex Lee
> Thanks.
>
> I just thought what I remember is a solid color butterfly (or
> something else), not an outline one. But anyway, probably I am just
> aging.
>
> On 9月10日, 上午3时44分, "John B. Matthews" <nos... @nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Capturing a .png was easy; a graf file may raise a little dust:-)
>>
>> --
>> John B. Matthews
>> trashgod at gmail dot com
>> home dot woh dot rr dot com slash jbmatthews
No, your memory still works.
As Marcus has pointed out, Blake's Flickr page includes the butterfly image:
http://flickr.com/photos/blakespot/2417886747/in/set-72157604441725927/
It's from Dazzle Draw.
--
- Alex
http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/
cybernesto
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blakespot/2398566514/in/set-72157604441725927/
D Finnigan
> Does anyone know where can I get this double hires version of Ultima II?
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/blakespot/2398566514/in/set-72157604441725927/
>
http://blakespot.com/