The Manager from Seven Hills (INFO!!)
Michael Heintz
The following release was passed on to me directly from Seven Hills...
IIGS users can now benefit from the same technology that Macintosh users
enjoy--The Manager(tm) is the first and only TRUE MultiFinder(tm) for your
Apple IIGS! Multiple applications can be open simultaneously and moving among
them is as simple as clicking in a different window. This is a tremendous time
saver because you don't have to quit one application to start using another,
which is especially convenient when copying and pasting between applications.
Use The Manager to create your own integrated environment...just open your
favorite IIGS-specific word processing, painting, DTP, telecom and other
programs, then instantly move among them! It is fully compatible with
AppleWorks GS, GraphicWriter III, Platinum Paint, Teach, and more. It even
works with system extensions such as Express, Kangaroo, TransProg III, and
others.
DON'T SETTLE FOR A LIMITED "SWITCHER"--the Macintosh started with this type of
program but MultiFinder made it obsolete. Macintosh users know from experience
that a MultiFinder program gives you greater control, makes you more
productive, and is more enjoyable because it's easier to use. The only true
MultiFinder for the IIGS is The Manager...it even supports multi-tasking for
some applications without requiring additional software.
The Manager is the result of a two year collaboration between Seven Hills
Software (Express, GraphicWriter III, SuperConvert, others) and BrainStorm
Software (Kangaroo, TransProg III, others). It requires System 6 and as little
as 2MB memory (4MB recommended for greatest efficiency; required for some
program combinations). A hard drive is not required but is strongly
recommended.
The Manager is the perfect way to increase your productivity!
The Manager's retail price is $69.95, and it will be shipping to our resellers
on 2/15/93. Quality Computers and other leading mail order companies will be
carrying The Manager. Quality Computers is ready to take advance orders for
only $49.95 so The Manager can be delivered to you as quickly as possible.
--
Michael Heintz
InterNet: mkhe...@vela.acs.oakland.edu BITNET: mkhe...@oakland.BITNET
** Oakland University -- Rochester Michigan **
Ian Schmidt
[interesting PR deleted]
Will there be a demo of this avalible? I suspect incompatibility with things
like synthLAB will be even more of an issue than with SwitchIt!... also, AZ
2.0 needs to be able to sense things like this so it can print appropriate
informative messages (it can for SI! already).
--
Ian Schmidt: irs...@iastate.edu or aol.com, BITNET: twbv4@isuvax
"I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose free will." - Neil Peart
Lim Thye Chean
:
: The following release was passed on to me directly from Seven Hills...
Thanks!
: DON'T SETTLE FOR A LIMITED "SWITCHER"--the Macintosh started with this type of
: program but MultiFinder made it obsolete. Macintosh users know from experience
: that a MultiFinder program gives you greater control, makes you more
: productive, and is more enjoyable because it's easier to use. The only true
: MultiFinder for the IIGS is The Manager...it even supports multi-tasking for
: some applications without requiring additional software.
So, the limited "Switcher" mentioned here must be Switch It! (The only other
commercial or workable product)
I have not seen a demo of The Manager yet, but base on the experience of
Kangaroo, I am willing to buy it. Too bad if I buy this, there will be one
less Procyon customer.
There are a few things that I am concerning:
1) Switch It! is quite reliable, but nobody here yet seen The Manager. I wish
to know how compatible it is going to be. If it is as good as Kangaroo,
I will be one of the first to place the order.
2) The Manager, according to the press release, put all the windows of
different programs in one screen (ala leapFrog) - this, in my opinion
is not good. Unlike Mac, GS have two resolutions - just imagine having
Milestone 2000 running together with AppleWorks GS, or worse, running
DreamGrafix in SBC 3200 mode with GraphicWriter III! Switching screen is
a *much* better way to go!
3) Multitasking is mentioned, but what type of multitasking? Coorporative?
Preemptive? What type of programs multitasks and what don't? Can we
choose? Can we turn it off (if speed is critical)?
Thanks for any responce.
: Michael Heintz
--
%% GS Lover Loves GS %% Author of Super Magic 3 & Mandelbrot II GS
%% and Avatar too. %%
Lim Thye Chean: Lim is my surname. My name is Thye Chean.
My address: LTC...@ISS.NUS.SG, or 9, College Green, Singapore 1129
ONG TAT-WEE
:
: Use The Manager to create your own integrated environment...just open your
: favorite IIGS-specific word processing, painting, DTP, telecom and other
: programs, then instantly move among them! It is fully compatible with
: AppleWorks GS, GraphicWriter III, Platinum Paint, Teach, and more. It even
: works with system extensions such as Express, Kangaroo, TransProg III, and
: others.
Say, will The Manager have any problems managing applications of
different resolutions? What if I have AWGS running in 640 mode then I
open Platinum Paint in 320 mode? Does it give you a corrupted screen
like LeapFrog or does it squeeze PP into a 320x200 window under 640 mode
(Heaven forbid!)? How does it settle the problem of managing different
resolutions on the same screen?
: --
: Michael Heintz
: InterNet: mkhe...@vela.acs.oakland.edu BITNET: mkhe...@oakland.BITNET
: ** Oakland University -- Rochester Michigan **
- DOTW -
gudat henrik
: mkhe...@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Michael Heintz) writes:
: :
:
: So, the limited "Switcher" mentioned here must be Switch It! (The only other
: commercial or workable product)
:
: I have not seen a demo of The Manager yet, but base on the experience of
: Kangaroo, I am willing to buy it. Too bad if I buy this, there will be one
: less Procyon customer.
Why don't you buy both?
: There are a few things that I am concerning:
:
: 1) Switch It! is quite reliable, but nobody here yet seen The Manager. I wish
: to know how compatible it is going to be. If it is as good as Kangaroo,
: I will be one of the first to place the order.
:
TM has been beta-tested by bug-hunter Francois Uhrich...
: 2) The Manager, according to the press release, put all the windows of
: different programs in one screen (ala leapFrog) - this, in my opinion
: is not good. Unlike Mac, GS have two resolutions - just imagine having
: Milestone 2000 running together with AppleWorks GS, or worse, running
: DreamGrafix in SBC 3200 mode with GraphicWriter III! Switching screen is
: a *much* better way to go!
:
But you can hide windows at will. I think it's a good approach.
: 3) Multitasking is mentioned, but what type of multitasking? Coorporative?
: Preemptive? What type of programs multitasks and what don't? Can we
: choose? Can we turn it off (if speed is critical)?
:
I wouldn't count on multitasking...just be content with a window-based
switcher and enjoy _some_ multitaskable applications...(I _believe_ that
the TM has only limited multitasking features....)
:
: : Michael Heintz
Henrik
--
Bright Software CH gu...@avalon.physik.unizh.ch Bright Software USA
P.O. Box 18 any demo: US$3.00 P.O. Box 120
4153 Reinach 2 info on GSymbolix, ShadowDial, Exeter, ME 04435-0120
Switzerland Gate, SpaceFox, Mandelbrot U.S.A.
Ian Schmidt
>Sounds cool. So does anybosy know if this is compatible with GNO?
My guess is that it might work with GNO 1.1, but 1.0 probably won't work with
it. Since its not out yet for Jawaid to test, who GNOs? :)
Lim Thye Chean
: ltc...@iss.nus.sg (Lim Thye Chean) writes:
: : I have not seen a demo of The Manager yet, but base on the experience of
: : Kangaroo, I am willing to buy it. Too bad if I buy this, there will be one
: : less Procyon customer.
: :
: Why don't you buy both?
Easy question. Why you need Switch It if you have The Manager? or vice versa?
Or why do you need AutoArk if you have HardPressed? or vice versa?
I can't imagine why would I want to run two products on the same machine, doing
the same job.
OK, please don't tell me "to buy everything just to support the Apple II"
story. Every reasonable Apple II users buy only things they need, support
Apple II software by not pirating.
: TM has been beta-tested by bug-hunter Francois Uhrich...
Only one beta tester?
By the way, even if they aren't releasing a demo, can BrainStrom at least
give us a compatibility list? For starter - does it work with DreamGrafix?
: But you can hide windows at will. I think it's a good approach.
My questions still does not get answered: what happened if it runs DreamGrafix
in SBC 3200 mode with a 640 mode application?
: I wouldn't count on multitasking...just be content with a window-based
: switcher and enjoy _some_ multitaskable applications...(I _believe_ that
: the TM has only limited multitasking features....)
What I am interested is how limited?
: Henrik
: --
: Bright Software CH gu...@avalon.physik.unizh.ch Bright Software USA
: P.O. Box 18 any demo: US$3.00 P.O. Box 120
: 4153 Reinach 2 info on GSymbolix, ShadowDial, Exeter, ME 04435-0120
: Switzerland Gate, SpaceFox, Mandelbrot U.S.A.
--
Lim Thye Chean
: In article <1993Feb1.1...@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> mh0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Matthew W. Hacker) writes:
: >Sounds cool. So does anybosy know if this is compatible with GNO?
:
: My guess is that it might work with GNO 1.1, but 1.0 probably won't work with
: it. Since its not out yet for Jawaid to test, who GNOs? :)
And it is going to be release soon... and yet Jawaid has not tested it?
Anyone out there (on the net) actually seen this program running?
: --
: Ian Schmidt: irs...@iastate.edu or aol.com, BITNET: twbv4@isuvax
: "I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose free will." - Neil Peart
--
Brian Tao
>
> Multiple applications can be open simultaneously and moving among them
> is as simple as clicking in a different window.
What about text-based GS/OS stuff (primarily, GNO or ORCA)? How
about Prosel-16? Dreamgrafix 3200 mode? Games? What if a dialog from
an "inactive" application pops up? Can I run multiple Switch-It's under
The Manager? ;-)
> The Manager is the result of a two year collaboration between Seven Hills
> Software (Express, GraphicWriter III, SuperConvert, others) and BrainStorm
> Software (Kangaroo, TransProg III, others).
They did an excellent job on Kangaroo, so I'm very interested in
seeing if The Manager lives up to its billing. Now if Seven Hills would
only concentrate some more on improving their "older" software (like
GW3!!!) instead of only getting new software!
--
== Real name: Brian Tao (Dept. of Exobiology, University of Toronto)
== Preferred: ta...@r-node.pci.on.ca (no mail over 15K please!!!)
== Free Plug: =MuGS 2.0=, the only """"""""""""""""""""""""""
== Internet mail reader for the Apple IIGS, coming soon!
Eric D. Shepherd
According to discussion on AOL, The Manager only multitasks programs which
were designed specifically to be compatible with The Manager's multitasking.
So you won't be able to multitask AWGS, for example.
On the other hand, I guarantee you that GraphicWriter III will eventually
multitask. :)
- Eric S.
--
Eric D. Shepherd | Apple II Alliance Charter Member
InterNet: uer...@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu | ACM Member
FidoNet: 1:206/2713 Eric Shepherd | Programming Law #1: "When in
AOL: Sheppy | doubt, rewrite from scratch."
Philip McDunnough
[ ]
>
> They did an excellent job on Kangaroo, so I'm very interested in
>seeing if The Manager lives up to its billing. Now if Seven Hills would
>only concentrate some more on improving their "older" software (like
>GW3!!!) instead of only getting new software!
The GS needs music notation software, a good sequencer, a good word processor
that accepts inline pasting (with the baseline info retained),etc...
What it does not need is a DTP'ing program (in my opinion). The current
graphics on the GS make it unsuitable for that sort of activity. One would
be better off with a $200 clone. 640x200 is totally unacceptable in 1993.
One of the interesting bright spots is GSymbolix, although they insist on
using a graphical user interface, as opposed to a more suitable "text-graphical"interface. An unzipped GS can't handle GUI's.
Now where the heck is all the multimedia stuff? The computer is perfect for
that. By this time next year, HyperStudio will be established on the Mac and
the propects for the GS will become most bleak indeed.
Don't want to be pessimistic, as the GS is capable of handling most of what
people need for a home or home away from work computer. DTP'ing certainly is
not one of these however, except on a small scale. As the last real home
computer around I can see why 7Hills would want to bring out more suitable
programs for the GS. The market is there for appropriate software.
Philip McDunnough
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Lim Thye Chean
:
: The GS needs music notation software, a good sequencer, a good word processor
: that accepts inline pasting (with the baseline info retained),etc...
The GS needs more arcade games in my opinion.
: What it does not need is a DTP'ing program (in my opinion). The current
: graphics on the GS make it unsuitable for that sort of activity. One would
: be better off with a $200 clone. 640x200 is totally unacceptable in 1993.
Please Philips, the subject on top is the discussion of the Manager, not
another round of GS cannot do DTP stuffs... start a new discussion somewhere.
I am one of those person who don't mind doing DTP on GS, provided the
new GraphicWriter III v2 does it right.
: Philip McDunnough
: phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Lim Thye Chean
:
: What about text-based GS/OS stuff (primarily, GNO or ORCA)? How
: about Prosel-16? Dreamgrafix 3200 mode? Games? What if a dialog from
: an "inactive" application pops up? Can I run multiple Switch-It's under
: The Manager? ;-)
Good questions.
Seems to be that only programs like Switch It can handle such a thing...
porting MultiFinder directly from Mac is not a good idea, this is because
Mactintosh does not have 2 resolution ratio, 3200 colour mode, text screen,
etc.
: They did an excellent job on Kangaroo, so I'm very interested in
: seeing if The Manager lives up to its billing. Now if Seven Hills would
: only concentrate some more on improving their "older" software (like
: GW3!!!) instead of only getting new software!
Yes, they did. Check the latest GraphicWriter III v2.0 from them. I myself
is interested in it too...
: --
: == Real name: Brian Tao (Dept. of Exobiology, University of Toronto)
: == Preferred: ta...@r-node.pci.on.ca (no mail over 15K please!!!)
: == Free Plug: =MuGS 2.0=, the only """"""""""""""""""""""""""
: == Internet mail reader for the Apple IIGS, coming soon!
--
Philip McDunnough
[ ]
>
>The GS needs more arcade games in my opinion.
True...
>
[ ]
>
>Please Philips, the subject on top is the discussion of the Manager, not
>another round of GS cannot do DTP stuffs... start a new discussion somewhere.
>I am one of those person who don't mind doing DTP on GS, provided the
>new GraphicWriter III v2 does it right.
I was simply responding to a comment re 7Hills bringing out new software,
a policy with which I agree. The GS can do DTP'ing with the proper programs.
Sorry if I implied otherwise. I just don't see it as a priority item.
Philip
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Lim Thye Chean
:
: According to discussion on AOL, The Manager only multitasks programs which
: were designed specifically to be compatible with The Manager's multitasking.
: So you won't be able to multitask AWGS, for example.
First, what else do you know about The Manager? Please tell me! Thanks!
It seems that it is the same as Switch It - Jawaid also tell me that if
applications is "Switch It compatible", it can be multitask. I think the
current release of Switch It does not support multitasking, but it the
future, it will.
The Manager has an advantage that it is released by Seven Hills, that means
Seven Hill might support multitasking in their own products. GraphicWriter III
is a good example.
Of course, if "Switch It compatible" is identical to "The Manager compatible",
it means that Switch It customers might be able to multitask Seven Hills
products too.
The Manager is bad news for us Procyon customers. GNO - the multitasking
environment is text based, I don't supposed it will work properly with The
Manager. I now faced a difficult choice between Switch It and The Manager.
: On the other hand, I guarantee you that GraphicWriter III will eventually
: multitask. :)
What else? Please tell me more about The Manager, if it is possible, please
upload the transcripts, or send it to me.
: - Eric S.
Frank M. Lin
>other commercial or workable product)
It must be! :)
>I have not seen a demo of The Manager yet, but base on the experience
>of Kangaroo, I am willing to buy it. Too bad if I buy this, there will
>be one less Procyon customer.
I hope they have a demo for it. I have a copy of Kangaroo ( illegal ), BUT I
don't use it. It's okay, but really in-efficient, IMO. With some minor
modifications it can be an awesome program. I'll have to see The Manager's
demo to decide which one to buy. Procyon should focus on gno and its goodies (
TC2... etc. ).
>There are a few things that I am concerning:
>
>1) Switch It! is quite reliable, but nobody here yet seen The Manager.
>I wish to know how compatible it is going to be. If it is as good as
>Kangaroo, I will be one of the first to place the order.
Agreed. I am very impressed with the SI! demo. I hate it when it just force
me to shut down after about 10 min. though... :P
>2) The Manager, according to the press release, put all the windows of
> different programs in one screen (ala leapFrog) - this, in my opinion
> is not good. Unlike Mac, GS have two resolutions - just imagine having
> Milestone 2000 running together with AppleWorks GS, or worse, running
> DreamGrafix in SBC 3200 mode with GraphicWriter III! Switching screen is
> a *much* better way to go!
Actually, with QD2, its okay. I mean, it'll look okay except the color tables
will be messed up. But DG in SBC 3200 mode might be a problem, eh? SI! is
kind of slow when switching between programs. I know that it has to copy some
memory, but it takes about 1.5 sec. to switch. Jawaid: couldn't it be faster?
Or is it just slow because it's only a demo. :)
>3) Multitasking is mentioned, but what type of multitasking? Coorporative?
> Preemptive? What type of programs multitasks and what don't? Can we
> choose? Can we turn it off (if speed is critical)?
I think it's probably more like Mac's system 7. And if it can be as smooth as
system 7, then I'll be impressed and satisfied. System 7 is stable. My
friends IIsi don't crash anymore... It used to crash 2, 3 times a day with
6.0.x running multi-finder.
> Thanks for any responce.
There, you got my opinions.
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Lim Thye Chean
:
: I was simply responding to a comment re 7Hills bringing out new software,
: Sorry if I implied otherwise. I just don't see it as a priority item.
I read your comments quite often, and I agree with most of them. The only
thing I disagree is that, you seems to imply certain software are needed,
and others aren't. I don't believe this. I think GS needs all sort of
software for all types of users.
You might not agree with me that desktop publishing is important in the GS
market, but there are a lot of us (including teachers, students, etc) needed
a good desktop publishing program. 640 x 200 is quite a joke, but a good
program can always get around it. I like the idea of half-size text in
GraphicWriter III which effectively let you work with 640 x 400 resolution.
To me, it is a higher priority than some of the software you suggested.
OK, now lets go back to the discussion of The Manager...
: Philip
: phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Lim Thye Chean
:
: That's basically what I put on the registration card for Kangaroo,
: plus a request for some sort of structured drawing application.
I will always request for the best DTP for GS, or the best word processor for
the GS...
and of course, best arcade games for the GS...
: A $200 clone can hardly handle decent DTP either. I'd have to spend
: close to a thousand to get enough performance to handle Windows (where
: all the thrust of DTP is going) or twice that for a colour Mac.
: GraphicWriter III as it stands now is adequate for publishing small
: two-column newsletters with text figures, framing, a few graphics, etc.
: What it most desperately needs is updating to System 6.0. Then we'll
: talk about adding more features.
You will be glad to know that you will see a new GraphicWriter III (v2.0)
updated for System 6.0 AND more features.
:
: I'm not asking for FrameMaker or QuarkXPress! GW does the job
: admirably and at an affordable price to boot.
This is what is in my mind. But! GraphicWriter III need to have a much more
professional interface - just like the AppleWorks GS. And it must be bug free
(well, almost).
: --
: == Real name: Brian Tao (Dept. of Exobiology, University of Toronto)
: == Preferred: ta...@r-node.pci.on.ca -->>> No Mail Over 15K Please!
: == Free Plug: This message was prepared with =MuGS 2.0=, the only
: == offline Internet mail reader for the Apple IIGS!
Lim Thye Chean
:
: >I have not seen a demo of The Manager yet, but base on the experience
: >of Kangaroo, I am willing to buy it. Too bad if I buy this, there will
: >be one less Procyon customer.
:
: I hope they have a demo for it. I have a copy of Kangaroo ( illegal ), BUT I
: don't use it. It's okay, but really in-efficient, IMO. With some minor
: modifications it can be an awesome program. I'll have to see The Manager's
: demo to decide which one to buy. Procyon should focus on gno and its goodies (
: TC2... etc. ).
I definitely disagreed! - on both comments!
First, Kangaroo is not as bad as you said. Inefficient? Never! I really like
Kangaroo, the more you use it, the more things you will discovered. BrainStorm
throws in a lot of goodies in this really really cool program. I highly
recommended it.
(BTW, please throw away your kangaroo and buy a new one if you really want to
use it. Support Apple II software developer.)
Procyon Switch It is a supplement product for its GNO, and I think it is a
good product. GNO do multitasking on text applications, Switch It multitask
the desktop applications (actually, not really, but it is next to it. Future
applications which is Switch It friendly might be able to multitask).
: Agreed. I am very impressed with the SI! demo. I hate it when it just force
: me to shut down after about 10 min. though... :P
I hate it when it does not allow me to set the preference, so I cannot make
Finder as startup. And running DreamGrafix from Finder will not work since
there is a two applications limit (Finder run DreamGrafix, and when DG.Code,
the real program is executed, 2 applications limit stops it).
: Actually, with QD2, its okay. I mean, it'll look okay except the color tables
: will be messed up. But DG in SBC 3200 mode might be a problem, eh? SI! is
: kind of slow when switching between programs. I know that it has to copy some
: memory, but it takes about 1.5 sec. to switch. Jawaid: couldn't it be faster?
: Or is it just slow because it's only a demo. :)
It is not OK. The 320 mode software will be half the size horizontally, all
colours are wrong - how disgusting! Switch It has a much better idea - the
applications should take over the whole screen. I am not even sure whether
text applications like ProSEL will work under the Manager, it does not even
have a window for switching!
: I think it's probably more like Mac's system 7. And if it can be as smooth as
: system 7, then I'll be impressed and satisfied. System 7 is stable. My
: friends IIsi don't crash anymore... It used to crash 2, 3 times a day with
: 6.0.x running multi-finder.
According to someone (is it henrick?), The Manager can only multitask new
applications aware of it (just like future Switch It!) New GraphicWriter III is
one of those software.
: There, you got my opinions.
And you got my response.
: frank m. lin
: fm...@terapin.com
ONG TAT-WEE
: fm...@terapin.com (Frank M. Lin) writes:
: :
: : Agreed. I am very impressed with the SI! demo. I hate it when it just force
: : me to shut down after about 10 min. though... :P
:
: I hate it when it does not allow me to set the preference, so I cannot make
: Finder as startup. And running DreamGrafix from Finder will not work since
: there is a two applications limit (Finder run DreamGrafix, and when DG.Code,
: the real program is executed, 2 applications limit stops it).
:
users experience running 3-4 applications and switching between them.
Then they'll appreciate a "switcher" more. But I don't agree that you
should hate the demo for forcing a shutdown after 10 mins. It's meant
to be a demo only and if it runs indefinitely, then people won't buy the
original SI!
- DOTW -
ONG TAT-WEE
: colours are wrong - how disgusting! Switch It has a much better idea - the
: applications should take over the whole screen. I am not even sure whether
: text applications like ProSEL will work under the Manager, it does not even
: have a window for switching!
:
applications that you always bring up: Having a full-screen window which
can be moved down so that top half of the screen runs one program and
bottom half runs another. Then the GS's ability to set different
resolutions for different scanlines can come into good use here.
: --
: %% GS Lover Loves GS %% Author of Super Magic 3 & Mandelbrot II GS
: %% and Avatar too. %%
: Lim Thye Chean: Lim is my surname. My name is Thye Chean.
: My address: LTC...@ISS.NUS.SG, or 9, College Green, Singapore 1129
- DOTW -
Philip McDunnough
[ ]
>
>I think it's probably more like Mac's system 7. And if it can be as smooth as
>system 7, then I'll be impressed and satisfied. System 7 is stable. My
>friends IIsi don't crash anymore... It used to crash 2, 3 times a day with
>6.0.x running multi-finder.
Stable? You have an odd definition of that term. Wonder why 8megs on a ci
keeps getting out of memory messages left and right running 7.1. These are
not isolated cases.
System 7 is slow. Really, the Mac team needs all the help it can get in order
to make it into a snappy stable product.
Brian Tao
>
> The GS needs music notation software, a good sequencer, a good word processor
> that accepts inline pasting (with the baseline info retained),etc...
That's basically what I put on the registration card for Kangaroo,
plus a request for some sort of structured drawing application.
> What it does not need is a DTP'ing program (in my opinion). The current
> graphics on the GS make it unsuitable for that sort of activity. One would
> be better off with a $200 clone. 640x200 is totally unacceptable in 1993.
A $200 clone can hardly handle decent DTP either. I'd have to spend
close to a thousand to get enough performance to handle Windows (where
all the thrust of DTP is going) or twice that for a colour Mac.
GraphicWriter III as it stands now is adequate for publishing small
two-column newsletters with text figures, framing, a few graphics, etc.
What it most desperately needs is updating to System 6.0. Then we'll
talk about adding more features.
> DTP'ing certainly is not one of these however, except on a small scale.
I'm not asking for FrameMaker or QuarkXPress! GW does the job
admirably and at an affordable price to boot.
--
James L. Brookes
(ONG TAT-WEE) writes:
> Or what about the Amiga method of handling multitasking
>applications that you always bring up: Having a full-screen window which
>can be moved down so that top half of the screen runs one program and
>bottom half runs another. Then the GS's ability to set different
>resolutions for different scanlines can come into good use here.
Great, then we can have two 640x100 apps. NOT! This is useful on an Amiga
only because it has a mode with 400 vertical lines of resolution.
I still say that on a GS, a Switcher is the only way to go. Multimaster may
do fine with a few apps, but I can't imagine it working with more than
a handfull. And only a small few applications will be rewritten to
'multitask' with it either. This isn't the Mac and Multifinder.
>: Lim Thye Chean: Lim is my surname. My name is Thye Chean.
>: My address: LTC...@ISS.NUS.SG, or 9, College Green, Singapore 1129
--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
| James Brookes | Inet: bb...@cleveland.freenet.edu |
|``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman | jam...@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu |
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Harold Byron Bouma
> Lim Thye Chean (ltc...@iss.nus.sg) wrote:
> :
> : It is not OK. The 320 mode software will be half the size horizontally, all
> : colours are wrong - how disgusting! Switch It has a much better idea - the
> : applications should take over the whole screen. I am not even sure whether
> : text applications like ProSEL will work under the Manager, it does not even
> : have a window for switching!
> :
> Or what about the Amiga method of handling multitasking
> applications that you always bring up: Having a full-screen window which
> can be moved down so that top half of the screen runs one program and
> bottom half runs another. Then the GS's ability to set different
> resolutions for different scanlines can come into good use here.
Yea, but getting the menu manager and other things to happily work at
lines below 0-(whatever) would be a neat trick. If the running app which was
then "moved" down the screen was not a desktop application, then maybe it could
be done. However, if it is not a destop application nor running QD, then it
wouldn't also work because the there is no way the application would know about
its "new updated" screen position.
| Hal Bouma | Send mail to: HBo...@Macalstr.edu |
| Macalester College, St. Paul, MN. | and HBo...@Macalstr.Bitnet |
\ Things that make you go Hmmm: System 6, GNO, DreamGrafix, SoundMeister /
\ Coming sometime this decade for the //GS : NBA! (GNO compatible too!) /
\ Drop by and say hi to us anytime on the #AppleIIGS channel on IRC!! /
Frank M. Lin
>ci keeps getting out of memory messages left and right running 7.1.
>These are not isolated cases.
>
>in order to make it into a snastable product.
Phil,
You're _out of memory_, you must be saying that system 7 reports out of memory
while there are still memory available. :) My friend has 9mb physical memory
on his IIsi, and he don't have that kind of problem. Do remember that you
assign memory to each application manually...
I agree it's pretty slow. But I was just saying that it's stable and don't
crash. If they optimize system 7 like the way they do to gs/os, then it'll be
quick! Isn't Andy working on Mac finder now?! :)
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Frank M. Lin
>really like Kangaroo, the more you use it, the more things you will
>discovered. BrainStorm throws in a lot of goodies in this really
>really cool program. I highly recommended it.
>
>(BTW, please throw away your kangaroo and buy a new one if you really
Have you seen HandOff-II or OnCue II on the Mac? That's the way I think it
should be. Hierachical menus are cool and impressive at first sight. But I
think Kangaroo used it wrong. To use any function, you'll have to click on the
Kangaroo icon first. And then try to select the function through the
hierachical menus. I guess you can perfect it with some practice, but IMO, it
should be done with multiple icons; an icon for recent folders, an icon for
recent files, an icon for file utilities, and then finally, an icon for rest of
the less-used functions. Right now, I'm able to navigate through my foldrs on
the keyboard ( the trick is how you name your folders! :) faster than I can
correctly select the file/folder from Kangaroo. I guess this is more like
personal opinion.
I have destroyed my copy. If future version of Kangaroo has similar
improvements to what I suggested, please let me know. I was going to write to
Dave ( of SevenHills ) and tell him about my illegal experience... but haven't
actually wrote to him yet. Maybe now it's the time. Hey, I'm honest enough to
tell to the public I used a illegal copy. I will definetely buy it if I think
it's worth it.
>Procyon Switch It is a supplement product for its GNO, and I think it
>is a good product. GNO do multitasking on text applications, Switch It
>multitask the desktop applications (actually, not really, but it is
>next to it. Future applications which is Switch It friendly might be
>able to multitask).
I said I agreed in my last post, and I mean it. From the demo, I can tell that
SwitchIt! is a fine product. And I was just about to order it... but now I
hear about The Manager. I'll probably have a hard time deciding...
And when I said Procyon should concentrate on gno, I didn't mean SI! is no
good. Competition is nice, and will make products better, but isn't all that
ideal the the gs world. I mean, Procyon does have limited resources, and
focusing on gno is a good idea. But I guess since SI! is a finished product,
there is no going back.
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Frank M. Lin
>users experience running 3-4 applications and switching between them.
>Then they'll appreciate a "switcher" more. But I don't agree that you
>should hate the demo for forcing a shutdown after 10 mins. It's meant
>to be a demo only and if it runs indefinitely, then people won't buy
>the original SI!
The 2 application limit is in the commercial version of SI!? That sucks...
The Manager seems able to handle more than 2. Why is SI! limited to 2?
I know its and demo and that's why it shuts down. What I meant was, it should
give you like 1 min. or so, so that you can save the files you were working on.
Right now, it just tell you straight up "demo's up, shutdown!" :)
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Frank M. Lin
>Amiga only because it has a mode with 400 vertical lines of
>resolution.
This why I think Jason Simmons' JumboDesk will be awesome! Latest version v2.1
is way cool, and it is freeware! Check it out!
Jason was nice enough to give the the src. I've changed my so that it moves
"one screen at a time". That is, it will move 640 pixels left or right, or 200
pixels up or down. So, like in orca/prism, I first open a src file. It takes
the whole screen. Then I move it out of the way, open a shell windows, zoom
it. Then I can switch between the windows in full view by using hotkeys... no
more window resizing just to check the src and the shell windows.
Just think what JumboDesk can do you gno's gui shell!
( enough plugs... but it's for a freeware! )
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Lim Thye Chean
: In article <1993Feb4.1...@nuscc.nus.sg> isc1...@nusunix1.nus.sg
: (ONG TAT-WEE) writes:
:
: > Or what about the Amiga method of handling multitasking
: >applications that you always bring up: Having a full-screen window which
: >can be moved down so that top half of the screen runs one program and
: >bottom half runs another. Then the GS's ability to set different
: >resolutions for different scanlines can come into good use here.
:
: Great, then we can have two 640x100 apps. NOT! This is useful on an Amiga
: only because it has a mode with 400 vertical lines of resolution.
YES! This is useful on an Amiga only because it has different horizontal
resolution, not because it has 400 vertical lines of resolution. I know of
no one who owns an Amiga likes to use the 640 x 400 mode.
We are not having two 640 x 100 applications like what you suggested. The
font application can takes the full screen (640 x 200). When you need to switch
applications, you can pull down the application, and the application behind
shows.
In ASCII graphics, it looks like this (just in case you don't know what
Amiga actually does):
Ruuning an application:
+------------+
|============| <-- menu bar of AppleWorks GS
| |
| AWGS | AppleWorks GS running at Full 640 x 200 mode.
| |
| |
+------------+
If there is multiple applications running, user can drag down the whole
application to show what is in the background...
+------------+
|============| <-- menu bar of DreamGrafix
| DreamGrafix| DreamGrafix running at 320 x 200 mode (partially hidden)
| |
|============| <-- menu bar of AppleWorks GS
| AWGS | AppleWorks GS running at 640 x 200 mode. (partially hidden)
+------------+
With a click of DreamGrafix in the above example, it became the front
application while AppleWorks GS running at background. The metaphor is almost
the same as the Mac MultiFinder, but instead of overlapping windows, we have
overlapping applications. This is great because there will not be corrupted
screen with wrong colour and wrong resolution.
: I still say that on a GS, a Switcher is the only way to go. Multimaster may
: do fine with a few apps, but I can't imagine it working with more than
: a handfull. And only a small few applications will be rewritten to
: 'multitask' with it either. This isn't the Mac and Multifinder.
Switcher is the easiest way to go, and in my opinion, much better than the
MultiFinder way. But the method used in the Amiga workbench, is the best for
a computer like GS which has different resolution mode.
By the way, even Switch It is currently a switcher program, Jawaid did said
that coorporative multitasking can be added in the future for those
Switch It friendly applications (consult Jawaid for more detail).
: --
: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: | James Brookes | Inet: bb...@cleveland.freenet.edu |
: |``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman | jam...@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu |
: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
--
%% GS Lover Loves GS %% Author of Super Magic 3 & Mandelbrot II GS
%% and Avatar too. %%
Lim Thye Chean
: I say that not based on having ever used QuarkExpress, but in my travels, I
: see lots of DTP brochures and signs hanging up on bulletin boards, and every
: time I see a good one, my mind goes "damn, I wish I could do that on my GS".
Have you seen the new GraphicWriter III? Do you know anything about it?
: Joe Kohn
Ian Schmidt
>The 2 application limit is in the commercial version of SI!? That sucks...
>The Manager seems able to handle more than 2. Why is SI! limited to 2?
SI!'s 2 application limit and 10 minute limit are both side effects of the
demo. I can tell you *nudge nudge* that that doesn't have to be the case
with the demo.
PS: Jawaid: you didn't see this ;)
Ian Schmidt
>And when I said Procyon should concentrate on gno, I didn't mean SI! is no
>good. Competition is nice, and will make products better, but isn't all that
>ideal the the gs world. I mean, Procyon does have limited resources, and
>focusing on gno is a good idea. But I guess since SI! is a finished product,
>there is no going back.
I'd like to point out that like most programmers, Jawaid's various projects
all tend to cross-pollinate to a degree. Therefore, its not as bad as it may
appear to some people that he and Tim are doing other things besides just GNO.
Eg: Research for TelCom II can cross-pollinate into faster, more reliable
serial drivers for GNO.
Remember this the next time your favorite II developer writes something you
think is of little value...
Joe Kohn
I think it was me who brought up the idea of a good shareware DTP program.
I'd just gotten InfoWorld, and there was an article in there about a full
featured Shareware DTP $45 program for the IBM that contains most of the
features of PageMaker and QuarkExpress. So, I was dreaming...
Since getting a laser printer a few months ago, I've been spending lots of
time with IIGS DTP programs, and I hate to say it, I don't think they are
very good compared to what is available on other platforms.
I say that not based on having ever used QuarkExpress, but in my travels, I
see lots of DTP brochures and signs hanging up on bulletin boards, and every
time I see a good one, my mind goes "damn, I wish I could do that on my GS".
Joe Kohn
Lim Thye Chean
: I said I agreed in my last post, and I mean it. From the demo, I can tell that
: SwitchIt! is a fine product. And I was just about to order it... but now I
: hear about The Manager. I'll probably have a hard time deciding...
:
: And when I said Procyon should concentrate on gno, I didn't mean SI! is no
: good. Competition is nice, and will make products better, but isn't all that
: ideal the the gs world. I mean, Procyon does have limited resources, and
: focusing on gno is a good idea. But I guess since SI! is a finished product,
: there is no going back.
Switch It and GNO lies the Procyon multitasking programming environment, to
replace Orca/Prizm combination. If everybody agrees that since we already
have Orca shell and don't need another one, we don't have GNO today.
You should read comp.sys.apple2.gno about the new GNO v2.0. GNO will have
a desktop interface, multiple shells in its own window, and able to switch
to other desktop programs easily. GNO/Switch It combination makes all these
possible.
: frank m. lin
: fm...@terapin.com
Lim Thye Chean
No. 2 applications limit on the DEMO version only. The real Switch It has
no such limit.
: I know its and demo and that's why it shuts down. What I meant was, it should
: give you like 1 min. or so, so that you can save the files you were working on.
: Right now, it just tell you straight up "demo's up, shutdown!" :)
Ai... it is just a demo... never do anything serious with it... The Manager
does not even have a demo for us... yet.
Lim Thye Chean
: is way cool, and it is freeware! Check it out!
I check up v2.0, fails to impress me, why so good about v2.1?
: Jason was nice enough to give the the src. I've changed my so that it moves
: "one screen at a time". That is, it will move 640 pixels left or right, or 200
: pixels up or down. So, like in orca/prism, I first open a src file. It takes
: the whole screen. Then I move it out of the way, open a shell windows, zoom
: it. Then I can switch between the windows in full view by using hotkeys... no
: more window resizing just to check the src and the shell windows.
:
: Just think what JumboDesk can do you gno's gui shell!
Is this your own version, or version 2.1?
Wonder, if The Manager can work with Jumbo Desk... just imagine...
Lim Thye Chean
:
: Yea, but getting the menu manager and other things to happily work at
: then "moved" down the screen was not a desktop application, then maybe it could
: be done. However, if it is not a destop application nor running QD, then it
: wouldn't also work because the there is no way the application would know about
: its "new updated" screen position.
That's why I don't expect to see anybody doing this soon. I really think that
it can't be done... but I hope some smart programmers can come up some way to
prove me wrong.
Lim Thye Chean
Who do you refer the "you"? I am not the one against the 10 mins limit.
Read the above carefully.
: - DOTW -
Lim Thye Chean
:
: applications that you always bring up: Having a full-screen window which
: can be moved down so that top half of the screen runs one program and
: bottom half runs another. Then the GS's ability to set different
: resolutions for different scanlines can come into good use here.
I have suggested this before System 6.0 is release. Everybody said that
Finder 6.0 is cool, but I think not. I said provided if is MultiFinder for
GS, I don't think it is that cool.
I suggested a few methods of doing multitasking then, this is one of them.
I actually think that this is the best way to implement multitasking
environment for GS, since GS like Amiga, has different horizontal resolution,
and it has the ability to change resolution on each line.
But I think no one does this not because it is not good, perhaps because of
two simple reasons:
1. GS people are more used to Mac MultiFinder than the Amiga.
2. It can't be done. (If it can be done, even after I bought The Manager, I
will buy it!)
: - DOTW -
Sam Pemberton - Sys Admin
ltc...@iss.nus.sg (Lim Thye Chean) writes:
>You will be glad to know that you will see a new GraphicWriter III (v2.0)
>updated for System 6.0 AND more features.
I called Seven Hills to see when the update would be available. There is no
2.0 in the works at that time. The update that's in the works won't be ready
until closer to summer and will more likely be something like a version 1.2.
Registered owners will get a mailing describing the 1.2 (?) update when it's
closer to being ready.
Frank M. Lin
>example, it became the front application while AppleWorks GS running
>at background. The metaphor is almost the same as the Mac MultiFinder,
>but instead of overlapping windows, we have overlapping applications.
>This is great because there will not be corrupted screen with wrong
>colour and wrong resolution.
Umm... isn't this just what The Manager does right now? But any how, I'm sure
BrainStorm has it all worked out. I mean, they're not dumb. :) So, lets stop
speculating, and just wait for the demo or the real thing.
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Frank M. Lin
>it?
I know I'm asking for trouble by posting this publically, but...
I happen to have a illegal copy of gw3. I own awgs, and I think its word
processor and page-layouts and good enough for normal use. But awgs is pretty
much dead. And in the interest of support gs developers, I was going to buy
gw3 just to support it ( and hoping to get some ). Luckily, I was able to
borrow a copy before I ditched out 80 bucks. gw3 is more of a page lay out
instead of a word processor. I just need to do some word processing, and gw3's
editor just didn't seem to cut it ( I only used it for a few seconds though ),
when compared to awgs. I guess I'm used to awgs. I just wish the dictinary,
thesarus ( spell wrong... see what Imean? :) are more up to date, and maybe
even have grammer checker... maybe gw3 v2.0 is my ticket.
I'm not a good page layouter, but I think gw3 is not all that easy to use.
Probably beacuse...
- I'm not doing it it right; I don't have the manual. :) ( buy the damn
thing... )
- 640x200 is really too limiting for page layouts ( not SevenHills' fault ).
- gw3 was design as a page layout... but it does have "writer" in its name, I
think it can use some improvements.
Does anyone know the planned features/improvements for v2.0? I hope it uses
resources. :>
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Brian Tao
>
> to make it into a snappy stable product.
Agreed... they probably think the average System 7 power user will
have a Mac IIvi or Quadra anyway, so speed won't be an issue. Pity
those Mac Classic/LC/LC II users. Anyway, Andy Nicholas is working on
the Mac Finder now. Maybe we'll see some improvement. ;-)
Brian Tao
>
> I have a copy of Kangaroo ( illegal ), BUT I don't use it. It's okay,
> but really in-efficient, IMO.
Oh, now *that's* good, Frank... where were you when the last
month-long pirate debate came up? I don't see how you can complain
about it if you haven't even paid for it in the first place. I bought
it from Resource-Central and it is a fantastic utility.
> Agreed. I am very impressed with the SI! demo. I hate it when it just
> force me to shut down after about 10 min. though... :P
That's to give you a taste of the real thing so hopefully you will
BUY the darn thing and help Procyon pay the rent...
Jimmy Shaw
>
>I know I'm asking for trouble by posting this publically, but...
>
>I happen to have a illegal copy of gw3. I own awgs, and I think its word
>processor and page-layouts and good enough for normal use. But awgs is pretty
>much dead. And in the interest of support gs developers, I was going to buy
>gw3 just to support it ( and hoping to get some ). Luckily, I was able to
>borrow a copy before I ditched out 80 bucks. gw3 is more of a page lay out
>instead of a word processor. I just need to do some word processing, and gw3's
>editor just didn't seem to cut it ( I only used it for a few seconds though ),
>when compared to awgs. I guess I'm used to awgs. I just wish the dictinary,
>thesarus ( spell wrong... see what Imean? :) are more up to date, and maybe
>even have grammer checker... maybe gw3 v2.0 is my ticket.
I must say AppleWorks GS v1.1 is just pathetic for word processing, and I
am talking about writing papers for upper division English classes, not
research papers nor term papers. Here is why:
No top/bottom margin (you can kinda fake it by fiddling with the header/
footer.) The spacing between lines are non-standard (the so-called
"double-space" is more like 1 and 1/2 spacing. and triple-space is
like 2 and something. Yuck!) The kerning (character spacing) could be
improved. There were other problems that I had with it, but I've
forgotten since it's been awhile since I used AWgs. It's too bad
Claris (as far I know) will not release updates to AWgs :-( It had so
much potential to become everything AppleWorks Classic is when StyleWare
first started.
I been using GraphicWriter since it was version 1.xx (from DataPak,)
and I have been pleased with its subsequent releases, especially from
GraphicWriter II to III. It is actually tolerable with a ZipGSX, and
after you get used to switching between different views (tall text,
actual size, fit in window, etc.) the program can be productive.
I work around the "editor/word processor" limitation by doing all my
typing with AppleWorks 3.0 with TimeOut add-ons. Then import the
final AWP file into GWIII.
>I'm not a good page layouter, but I think gw3 is not all that easy to use.
>Probably beacuse...
>
>- I'm not doing it it right; I don't have the manual. :) ( buy the damn
>thing... )
>- 640x200 is really too limiting for page layouts ( not SevenHills' fault ).
>- gw3 was design as a page layout... but it does have "writer" in its name, I
>think it can use some improvements.
>
>Does anyone know the planned features/improvements for v2.0? I hope it uses
>resources. :>
I wished I did, but I guess it's time I bugged SevenHills about upgrades.
Assuming other will reprimand you about your illegal copy, I did not think
I should be the first :-)
>frank m. lin
>fm...@terapin.com
Jimmy
--
Jimmy Shaw RamFAST, ZipGSX and System 6... Apple II Forever!
jim...@ics.uci.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Kohn
I have to agree with Brian Tao about how great Kangaroo is. Far and away,
it's my favorite System 6 goodie.
There's a lot about Kangaroo that is not readily apparent from reading the
manual or from trying it out for 10 minutes. In a way, the manual was
purposefully vague, so that people could discover for themselves just how
Way Cool Kangaroo is.
To tell the truth, I don't think that c.s.a2 is the proper place to
advertize being a PIRATE. You might not realize it, but any company that
currently produces Apple II/IIGS software is doing it as a labor of love.
They are "one of us". By pirating current Apple IIGS software, and then bad
rapping it, you're doing yourself, and us and Apple II developers a real
dis-service.
Joe Kohn
Joe Kohn
Well, I do own GW III, and I have used it, and I still stand by my statement
that IIGS DTP programs Just don't compare to what is available on other
platforms.
Joe Kohn
Jason Simmons
>>Amiga only because it has a mode with 400 vertical lines of
>>resolution.
>
>This why I think Jason Simmons' JumboDesk will be awesome! Latest version
>v2.1 is way cool, and it is freeware! Check it out!
For those of you who are wondering, JumboDesk 2.1 has not been released yet.
I haven't finished it yet, although I did give Frank a prerelease version.The
new version will probably be posted to c.b.a2 in a few days. New features
should include:
- Optional scrolling of icons on the Finder 6.0 desktop
- Clear hotkey can open the JumboDesk DA window under System 6
- Should be reliably installable by IR and similar utilities
- Resource fork can be edited while JumboDesk is installed
- Hotkeys can be used to manipulate the Expanded View dialog
- Horizontal scroll amount can now be set to up to 640 pixels
If you have any other suggestions, please send them to me.
Jason Simmons
jsim...@sbcs.sunysb.edu
Marc Sira
In a previous article, 90ta...@CHASM.SCAR.UTORONTO.CA (Brian Tao) says:
>The following revelation escaped Frank M. Lin's lips:
>>
>> I have a copy of Kangaroo ( illegal ), BUT I don't use it. It's okay,
>> but really in-efficient, IMO.
>
>about it if you haven't even paid for it in the first place. I bought
>it from Resource-Central and it is a fantastic utility.
Actually, this illustrates an interesting psychological phenomenon whose
technical name escapes me - You bought it, and it's Fantastic, Frank didn't
buy it, and it's Okay. B-)
--
Marc Sira |
t...@micor.ocunix.on.ca | "Your god drinks...p-p-peach nectar!"
aa...@freenet.carleton.ca '
ONG TAT-WEE
:
: Well, I do own GW III, and I have used it, and I still stand by my statement
: that IIGS DTP programs Just don't compare to what is available on other
: platforms.
:
: Joe Kohn
Well, I've always find the GW 3 interface amateurist to say the
least. The icons on the left hand bar can definitely be improved as is
the HUGE crosshair cursor. Just look at AWGS icons and cursor! I also
hope that they'll incorporate a dictionary/thesarus complete with
definitions for the words being searched, like the one in AWGS. Very,
very neat.
Anybody knows what happened to Medley? It was one of those kind
that can do text wrap around irregular boundaries. Wonder if GW 3 v2.0
offers that capability?
- DOTW -
ONG TAT-WEE
: In <1993Feb4.0...@nuscc.nus.sg>
BOO! What a let down!! To think we've all been taking about a
non-existant GW III v2.0 all this while. Boy, no wonder no upgrade
specs were available. Taking vaporware is pretty bad for the IIgs
market and it kind of discourages people who were looking forward to a
good, solid upgrade.
- DOTW -
Shane Richards
>>The 2 application limit is in the commercial version of SI!? That sucks...
>>The Manager seems able to handle more than 2. Why is SI! limited to 2?
>
--
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Shane Richards
sha...@ucc.su.oz.au
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Dave Huang
> Where can I grab the SwitchIt Demo from, any particular ftp site?
Sure... try cco.caltech.edu:/pub/apple2/uploads/SwitchDemo.bxy
--
Dave Huang |
Internet: da...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "Microwaves: They're not just
or { khym | pekb364 }@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu | for cooking anymore."
America Online: DrWho29 |
Frank M. Lin
better, especially in its word-processing area. But I saw publishit 2 ( yes, 2
), and was very impressed by it. It had good clean interface, word processing
and page layout all looks good. I'd bet publishit 4 is really awesome.
Now, if only they do a gs/os version... One good dtp for the gs, that's all we
need. awgs was pretty, IMO. If Claris do a final upgrade to make it system 6
savvy, clean the bugs, and add some new features from the mac dtp power
houses... Wasn't awgs one of the best selling gs programs? Anyone know how
many copies were sold?
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Frank M. Lin
>the manual or from trying it out for 10 minutes. In a way, the manual
>was purposefully vague, so that people could discover for themselves
>just how Way Cool Kangaroo is.
Just wondering, did you guys ever read my follow up about why I thought
kangaroo is in-efficient? If you read it, do you agree to what I said? And I
didn't try kangaroo for 10 min. I installed it for about 3 days, read the help
thoroughly, and understood what kangaroo can do for me. And my conclusion at
the end? It's in-efficient, for me atleast.
Support those who support you. And I will, but only on programs that I
think're worth supporting. One other thing, if kangaroo was written by an
Amreican or American group, I will buy it right away. I mean, if I turn in my
wish list to Dave of SevenHills, how long do you think it'll take to get to
BrainStorm? And how long do you think BrainStorm will have a new version out?
Or, will Dave even pass it to BrainStorm at all; what if Dave don't think it's
a good idea?? How ever, if future kangaroo has enough improvements, I'll buy
it... hmm, I don't even think you guys will buy what I'm saying, but what the
heck.
Should've kept it all to myself in the beginning.
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Frank M. Lin
>whose technical name escapes me - You bought it, and it's Fantastic,
>Frank didn't buy it, and it's Okay. B-)
Hmm... actually, if I brought it, I would jump on SevenHills, and really bug
them about improvements...
btw, the worst thing I ever paid for - Design Master... ick!!
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Frank M. Lin
>long as you have enough memory. I've had between 6 and 7 applications
>at once! Including GWIII, AWGS, Finder, ShrinkIt, Teach, SoniqTracker,
>and a few others, all at once. The 2 application limit is purely for
>the demo.
Ahh, that's what I thought! Got that cleared up.
>A minute to save your work? You really shouldn't be using the DEMO to
>do real work with...it's just a demo. It's fully functional, but just
>a demo, nonetheless. It was released to show what SwitchIt! can do and
>let you see what it does w/o trusting an ad or a review.
Yes, it impressive indeed. I think demos are great. SevenHills should release
a demo of The Manager. And gw3, and kangaroo ( so I don't have to do it again
).
So, has SwitchIt! shipped yet?!
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
Lim Thye Chean
: There was some talk about the next GWIII upgrade - here's what I know:
: The next release won't be a superduper upgrade. They are just trying to
: elimninate the spagetthi code of Datapak, the original devloper. They
: have first moved it from APW to MPW, and they are moving it back to the
: IIGS. This is not very easy, and I was told that the next release is
: just a program that is stabile, GS/OS compatible, so everybody will ben
: happy. And maybe they throw in one or two more functions...who
: knows..for example a "Date" feature.............
Yak! This is what they have done after all these years?
They better have the interface improved and add in more features. Oh.
: henrik
Lim Thye Chean
:
: For those of you who are wondering, JumboDesk 2.1 has not been released yet.
: I haven't finished it yet, although I did give Frank a prerelease version.The
: new version will probably be posted to c.b.a2 in a few days. New features
: should include:
:
: - Optional scrolling of icons on the Finder 6.0 desktop
: - Clear hotkey can open the JumboDesk DA window under System 6
: - Should be reliably installable by IR and similar utilities
: - Resource fork can be edited while JumboDesk is installed
: - Hotkeys can be used to manipulate the Expanded View dialog
: - Horizontal scroll amount can now be set to up to 640 pixels
:
: If you have any other suggestions, please send them to me.
Can it be started automatically after launching the Finder? I hope to have it
working transparently instead of activating it from the menu.
Can we have a better overview window?
: Jason Simmons
: jsim...@sbcs.sunysb.edu
Lim Thye Chean
No, if it works like MultiFinder for the Mac (which they advertise so), it is
not the same.
1. For the Amiga method, the application works as if it is in a window and you
can move it. Just like some NDA wordprocessor.
2. You can only move an application vertically and no resizing is allowed. This
will not corrupt the screen if two or more applications are in different
resolution.
I just hope one day I will see it on my GS.
: frank m. lin
: fm...@terapin.com
Brian Tao
>
> And then try to select the function through the hierachical menus.
All the functions (well, most anyway) can be accessed through the
keyboard. In fact, you don't even need to have a file dialog on the
screen to use Kangaroo.
> an icon for recent folders, an icon for recent files, an icon for file
> utilities, and then finally, an icon for rest of the less-used
> functions.
Where do you propose we should place all these icons? I personally
think it is more elegant having it all in a single, unobtrusive icon
rather than seeing an array of them.
> Right now, I'm able to navigate through my foldrs on the keyboard ( the
> trick is how you name your folders! :)
Getting your Application Groups and judiciously locking frequently
accessed files and folders into the lists helps a great deal. BTW, I
still use SuperDataPath as a "master list" of folders since Kangaroo
only automatically adds those which you actually access.
Brian Tao
>
> group, I will buy it right away. I mean, if I turn in my wish list to
> Dave of SevenHills, how long do you think it'll take to get to
> BrainStorm? And how long do you think BrainStorm will have a new
> version out?
I don't think that's really fair. Many excellent and important
programming techniques didn't start in the US. Try France, Switzerland,
Singapore (hi Thye Chean!), Australia, etc. Besides, your statement
smacks of other American protectionist measures which aren't exactly a
popular topic in other countries... follow-ups to alt.politics.economics ;-)
Brian Tao
>
> What's the point of this post? Is it to inspire the God-like
> programming masses out there? Is it a lament? My mind goes, "damn,
> learn to program then write it yourself."
Easier said than done! Perhaps Joe was really thinking "The GS is
capable of this, but the software doesn't exist" and not "The GS can't
do this, time to get another computer". Some of us don't have the time
or the inclination to learn programming, much less write a DTP package!
I've been meaning to learn C and desktop programming for a couple of
years now. I still can't make it through a dozen lines of C without
getting completely lost! So for now I stick with the "minor" languages
like HyperTalk and MicroEMACS scripting.
Lim Thye Chean
: I called Seven Hills to see when the update would be available. There is no
: 2.0 in the works at that time. The update that's in the works won't be ready
: until closer to summer and will more likely be something like a version 1.2.
Oh oh. Now I forgot who tell me about the v2.0. Sad to hear that it is just
v1.2... btw, when did you call?
: Registered owners will get a mailing describing the 1.2 (?) update when it's
: closer to being ready.
Joe Kohn is right, GraphicWriter III is not powerful enough. This piece of
software needs upgrading badly before everybody moved to Publish It! or
even another platform.
Lim Thye Chean
:
: I don't think that's really fair. Many excellent and important
: programming techniques didn't start in the US. Try France, Switzerland,
: Singapore (hi Thye Chean!), Australia, etc. Besides, your statement
: smacks of other American protectionist measures which aren't exactly a
: popular topic in other countries... follow-ups to alt.politics.economics ;-)
Thanks.
I must agree that the European software I have seen so far, like GSymbolix,
Kangaroo, Transprog III, and all those FTA's stuffs, are really great.
Please don't buy software due to the nationality, you should buy those
software that is good and useful to you.
: == Real name: Brian Tao (Dept. of Exobiology, University of Toronto)
: == Preferred: ta...@r-node.pci.on.ca -->>> No Mail Over 15K Please!
: == Free Plug: This message was prepared with =MuGS 2.0=, the only
: == offline Internet mail reader for the Apple IIGS!
--
di...@gaga.maschinenbau.uni-dortmund.de
> Support those who support you. And I will, but only on programs that I
> Amreican or American group, I will buy it right away. I mean, if I turn in my
> wish list to Dave of SevenHills, how long do you think it'll take to get to
> BrainStorm? And how long do you think BrainStorm will have a new version out?
> a good idea?? How ever, if future kangaroo has enough improvements, I'll buy
> it... hmm, I don't even think you guys will buy what I'm saying, but what the
> heck.
And I saw lots of letters from Seven Hills to him, with lots of suggestions
for improvements of FontFactory, some by the folks at Seven Hills, others by
people who bought it. So FontFactory got really fine, I think. Seven Hills
really is concerned about products originally from overseas. (I mean what you
think is 'overseas':)
I've also had some correspondence with BrainStorm. I think, the same applys to
them.
BTW, Kangaroo is really good! (I bought it)
Dirk
|Dirk Froehling - di...@gaga.maschinenbau.uni-dortmund.de|
|Uni Dortmund, FB Maschinenbau, LS Mechanik |
|"GS is not dead, it just smells funny!" - FZ modified |
Jason Simmons
>jsim...@cs.sunysb.edu (Jason Simmons) writes:
>:
>: For those of you who are wondering, JumboDesk 2.1 has not been released yet.
>: I haven't finished it yet, although I did give Frank a prerelease version.The
>: new version will probably be posted to c.b.a2 in a few days. New features
>: should include:
>:
>: - Optional scrolling of icons on the Finder 6.0 desktop
>: - Clear hotkey can open the JumboDesk DA window under System 6
>: - Should be reliably installable by IR and similar utilities
>: - Resource fork can be edited while JumboDesk is installed
>: - Hotkeys can be used to manipulate the Expanded View dialog
>: - Horizontal scroll amount can now be set to up to 640 pixels
>:
>: If you have any other suggestions, please send them to me.
>
>Can it be started automatically after launching the Finder? I hope to have it
>working transparently instead of activating it from the menu.
JumboDesk does not need to be manually activated each time you restart.
Just place it in the Desk.Accs folder, and it will work automatically
behind any application.
>Can we have a better overview window?
The 2.1 overview supports hotkeys as a means of manipulating the display,
can scroll diagonally, and uses neat 3-D icons (thanks, Frank!). Is there
anything else I should add?
Jason Simmons
jsim...@sbcs.sunysb.edu
Brian Tao
>
> In article <1993Feb6.2...@ifi.unizh.ch>, gu...@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (g
> udat henrik) writes:
> |> And maybe they throw in one or two more functions...who
> |> knows..for example a "Date" feature.............
> |>
Hear, hear... and general System 6.0 awareness which should solve a
lot of problems (like a fixed-width, non-scrolling Font menu)...
--
Stefan Voss
|> And maybe they throw in one or two more functions...who
|> knows..for example a "Date" feature.............
|>
... or a public scrap...
|> henrik
|>
|> --
|> BRIGHT SOFTWARE CH | Clinical Research | BRIGHT SOFTWARE USA
|> P.O. Box 18 | Requirements Engineering | P.O. Box 120
|> 4153 Reinach 2 | Software Engineering | Exeter, ME 04435-0120
|> Switzerland | Information Services | U.S.A.
Stefan Voss
(vo...@ira.uka.de)
Joe Kohn
Thank you, Brian. I was trying to come up with a snappy sarcastic answer,
but couldn't.
Phillip Vandry
GWIII is fine. It just needs a new version with bug fixes and a few more
features. Give it an accelerator and new "Word processing" capabilities
(like edit stories in one big window per story for speed, then close the
window and the changes go into the DTP document)
AWGS just isn't a good idea anymore. Now that there's SwitchIt and GNO and all
that stuff that lets you have more than one program in memory, integrated
software becomes meaningless. Not to mention very huge and clunky.
>frank m. lin
______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Van...@Cam.Org | II the future! | II 1993! |
|________________|________________|________________|___________________|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frank M. Lin
>GSymbolix, Kangaroo, Transprog III, and all those FTA's stuffs, are
>really great. Please don't buy software due to the nationality, you
>should buy those software that is good and useful to you.
Yup, FTA showed what the ][gs can do, IMO. gsymbolix is cool, and its title
screen is awesome. Transprog ][ was cool, but III looks like the same thing
except it's now commercial. A better alternative, IMO is Karl Bunker's Quit-To
CDA, which works in gs/os _and_ prodos 8. Kangaroo looks promising, but the
current version isn't too great, _IMO_. If it gets better, I'll definetly buy
it.
One thing it should do, allow you to select which key to use for _all_ of its
hotkey functions. And like I mentioned before, be more like Hand-Off ][ or
OnCue ][ on the Mac; multiple menus.
frank m. lin
fm...@terapin.com
gudat henrik
: >GSymbolix, Kangaroo, Transprog III, and all those FTA's stuffs, are
: >really great. Please don't buy software due to the nationality, you
: >should buy those software that is good and useful to you.
:
: Yup, FTA showed what the ][gs can do, IMO. gsymbolix is cool, and its title
: screen is awesome. Transprog ][ was cool, but III looks like the same thing
: except it's now commercial. A better alternative, IMO is Karl Bunker's Quit-To
Tnx...
Scott Gentry
>The following revelation escaped Scott Gentry's lips:
>>
>> What's the point of this post? Is it to inspire the God-like
>> programming masses out there? Is it a lament? My mind goes, "damn,
>> learn to program then write it yourself."
> Easier said than done! Perhaps Joe was really thinking "The GS is
>capable of this, but the software doesn't exist" and not "The GS can't
>do this, time to get another computer". Some of us don't have the time
>or the inclination to learn programming, much less write a DTP package!
>I've been meaning to learn C and desktop programming for a couple of
>years now. I still can't make it through a dozen lines of C without
>getting completely lost! So for now I stick with the "minor" languages
>like HyperTalk and MicroEMACS scripting.
Ever thought that I might have been asking sincere questions? No?
--
***************************************************************************
* W. Scott Gentry | wsge...@brnded.reston.ingr.com | Cowboy *
* Intergraph Corporation| AOL: AFL Scott or afls...@aol.com | Dynasty! *
***************** Dallas Cowboys. Super Bowl Champions. ******************
Scott Gentry
>Thank you, Brian. I was trying to come up with a snappy sarcastic answer,
>but couldn't.
Did _you_ ever think that I might be sincere?
Joe Kohn
I had no doubt that you were sincere, but...
You might not realize it, but I have to come up with 2 columns per month for
inCider, and one for SoftdiskGS. I also usually have at least one review for
inCider each month, and am currently working on 2 feature length articles
for inCider. That takes a lot of time. In addition, my Shareware Solutions
Compnaion Disks generally take up a few hours each day, duplicating them,
entering names into a data base, printing labels, going to the post office.
If that weren't enough, not a day goes by when I don't get a few letters
from inCider readers, asking questions. Add all that up together, and you'll
understand why I often have to work 6 and 7 days a week.
It's a tough job, but someone has to do it. I'm totally committed to
continue working with my Apple II, but c'mon, I can't do everything. I
haven't had a real vacation in the 6 years that I've been working full time
with my Apple II. As much as I'd like to go down in history as the guy who
single handedly saved the Apple II, I think I'm already doing my share.
Joe Kohn
Philip R. Lindberg
>Lim Thye Chean (ltc...@iss.nus.sg) wrote:
>:
>: [...] - how disgusting! Switch It has a much better idea - the
>: applications should take over the whole screen. I am not even sure whether
>: text applications like ProSEL will work under the Manager, it does not even
>: have a window for switching!
>:
> Or what about the Amiga method of handling multitasking
>applications that you always bring up: Having a full-screen window [...]
Okay everybody!! Enough speculating how "It really aughta do this or aughta
do that". The Manager ships starting on Monday (2/15/93). Lets switch
to talking about what it really DOES DO. Okay.... (Sheesh. How can you
criticize a good product when you haven't even seen it!!)
Phil
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Phil Lindberg Apple II Forever!! |
| Intenet: ..!uunet!bcstec!aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com!prl3546 |
| Disclaimer: I don't speak for my employer |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Kevin R. Cornett
I own Switch It! and love it. You all seem to think that
the demo is fabulous. Believe me when I tell you that the
demo does not do this program justice. It is in all reality
much faster than the demo and very reliable. Take for
instance that if you are running several applications
icluding finder and you need more memory. All you have
to do is switch to finder and do a shutdown. All this does is
quit the finder, not an actual shutdown. All of the sudden
BOOM! you have the memory you need. I highly recommend
Switch It! Until I see a demo of the Manager, I have to say
it would take a lot to make me want anything else.