Apple IIe and Profile hard disk setup?
cj...@my-deja.com
seems to be working fine, but I don't have any software or manuals yet.
I have ordered some DOS system discs on ebay, so hopefully I can try it
out next week.
I plugged everything back together and I get a prompt on the screen.
My question is regarding hard disks: this system seems to have 2 hard
disks (a Profile and a CMS), but I don't remember ever using an Apple
II with a hard disk.
Can anyone point me to more information on accessing and setting up
hard disks? Can I boot from the hard disk? Can I access the drives
with DOS 3.3 or do I need ProDOS or a special program/driver to access
the hard drives? Can you tell me the basic DOS command to access the
drives?
If the system runs, I am planning on using ADT and/or Oasis (or another
emulator) to transfer files and disks back and forth between my PC and
the Apple II. Will I be able to access files on the Apple II hard
disks directly on my PC, or do I need to transfer the hard disk files
to an Apple II floppy first (and vice versa)?
The System is as follows:
1982 (Motherboard) Apple IIe
Green Monochrome Apple monitor
Disk II Interface--->2 floppy drives
1986 CMS Enhancements SCSI II card-->CMS Enhancements SD80 (hard drive?)
Apple II Interface--->Apple "profile" Model AM90100 (hard drive?)
Microtek Slotware Controller--->(nothing)
I really appreciate you help!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jon Bettencourt
> Can anyone point me to more information on accessing and setting up
> hard disks? Can I boot from the hard disk? Can I access the drives
> with DOS 3.3 or do I need ProDOS or a special program/driver to access
> the hard drives? Can you tell me the basic DOS command to access the
> drives?
DOS 3.3 can only access disks up to 400K (and that's with a whole lotta
modification). You need ProDOS to access the hard disk. If the card for
the hard disk is in slot 7, it should be able to boot up off it.
> If the system runs, I am planning on using ADT and/or Oasis (or another
> emulator) to transfer files and disks back and forth between my PC and
> the Apple II. Will I be able to access files on the Apple II hard
> disks directly on my PC, or do I need to transfer the hard disk files
> to an Apple II floppy first (and vice versa)?
You can't use disks to transfer information. You can set up ADT or the
Disk Server in Apple Oasis and transfer files that way. The Apple II
accesses the Disk Server. You can leave the PC alone.
Tammy and TIA,
----> Jon.
= jonr...@napanet.net === ICQ# 76731065 === kellys.home.dyndns.org =
cj...@my-deja.com
some ProDOS discs...
In article <processoroverclocked-0807001800350001@dialup-napanet-206-81-
102-22.napanet.net>,
Paul Schlyter
> seems to be working fine, but I don't have any software or manuals yet.
> I have ordered some DOS system discs on ebay, so hopefully I can try it
> out next week.
>
> I plugged everything back together and I get a prompt on the screen.
>
> My question is regarding hard disks: this system seems to have 2 hard
> disks (a Profile and a CMS), but I don't remember ever using an Apple
> II with a hard disk.
>
> hard disks? Can I boot from the hard disk?
the slot number of your hard disk controller (usually 5, 6 or 7).
> Can I access the drives with DOS 3.3 or do I need ProDOS or a special
> program/driver to access the hard drives? Can you tell me the basic
> DOS command to access the drives?
harddisk. If you do, a "CATALOG" follower by a slot and drive number
should be enough to just check that it works. Note that since DOS 3.3
had a limited maximum size of disk volumes (400 K), hard drives were
usually "partitioned" into multiple DOS "volumes", which were
distinguished by the "volume" parameter of the DOS command line.
(once I modified FID so that it also took the volume number as
input, to enable it to move files back and forth from the Corvus
Constellation hard drive, which contained multiple DOS volumes)
> If the system runs, I am planning on using ADT and/or Oasis (or another
> emulator) to transfer files and disks back and forth between my PC and
> the Apple II. Will I be able to access files on the Apple II hard
> disks directly on my PC,
> or do I need to transfer the hard disk files to an Apple II floppy
> first (and vice versa)?
be unable to handle any other disk geometries.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Swedish Amateur Astronomer's Society (SAAF)
Grev Turegatan 40, S-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at saaf dot se or paul.schlyter at ausys dot se
WWW: http://hotel04.ausys.se/pausch http://welcome.to/pausch
Paul Schlyter
Jon Bettencourt <processoro...@33mhz.cjb.net> wrote:
> DOS 3.3 can only access disks up to 400K (and that's with a whole lotta
> modification).
modified RWTS to access your 400K disk. And you need a properly DOS 3.3
formatted 400K disk. But apart from that, no modification to the
remainder of the DOS needs to be done. DOS has no hardcoded assumption
about the DOS disk (except that the VTOC, Volume Table of Contents,
should reside on the first sector of track 17) -- it reads the disk
geometry off the disk itself!
> You need ProDOS to access the hard disk.
Due to the limited size of DOS disks, the harddisk was partitioned into
multiple DOS "volumes", which were distinguished by adding the "V"
(volume) parameter to DOS commands accessing the hard disk.
Perhaps it was only the Corvus Constellation which implemented this
though? That harddisk was 5 MBytes, and was divided into 35 or 36
DOS "volumes" of 140K each.
cj...@my-deja.com
Thanks very much!!! With PR#5, I was able to access the CMS SD-80 hard
disk - It has a working ProDOS 8 v1.4 system installed on it. Now I'm
going to search for a command list for ProDOS (I'm trying to buy a
manual online too...).
Thanks for making my day!
In article <8k9uia$4ei$1...@merope.saaf.se>,
pau...@saafNOSPAM.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
> In article <8k88k6$rl9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <cj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > Can anyone point me to more information on accessing and setting up
> > hard disks? Can I boot from the hard disk?
>
> Did you try booting from the hard disk? Type "PR#<n>" where <n> is
> the slot number of your hard disk controller (usually 5, 6 or 7).
cj...@my-deja.com
Thanks for the great suggestion that I try PR# + slot number. PR#5
booted the CMS SD-20 drive. It started with ProDOS 8 v 1.4, then went
into the CMS SCSI Utility. I was also able to able to get into the
ProDOS basic system.
Unfortunately, I left the Apple IIe on (less than 2 hours) while I went
to check the Web for ProDOS commands and information about the CMS
drive and SCSI utilities.
When I went back to the Apple IIe, it was frozen in the SCSI Utility
screen. No keys or combination of Ctrl-Apple-Reset keys had any
effect, so I turned it off and let it cool off.
Now, when I turn it on, I get thick vertical black and green lines (on
the black/green monitor), with a few random blocks. No matter what
keys/reset I hit (or if I turn it off) nothing happens. The same
vertical lines show up each time I turn it on. The floppy drive does
not seek either. It is totally locked up.
Any suggestions? Have I burned out a card or the motherboard? What
are common ways to try to recover the computer?
Keep in mind, I still don't have any system floppy disks (or any other
disks), except the hard disk. (Disks are in the mail, but they may be
useless if I can't turn the machine on...)
In article <8k9uia$4ei$1...@merope.saaf.se>,
pau...@saafNOSPAM.se (Paul Schlyter) wrote:
> In article <8k88k6$rl9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <cj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > I just picked up a complete Apple IIe system off the street and it
> > seems to be working fine, but I don't have any software or manuals
yet.
> > I have ordered some DOS system discs on ebay, so hopefully I can
try it
> > out next week.
> >
> > I plugged everything back together and I get a prompt on the screen.
> >
> > My question is regarding hard disks: this system seems to have 2
hard
> > disks (a Profile and a CMS), but I don't remember ever using an
Apple
> > II with a hard disk.
> >
> > Can anyone point me to more information on accessing and setting up
> > hard disks? Can I boot from the hard disk?
>
> Did you try booting from the hard disk? Type "PR#<n>" where <n> is
> the slot number of your hard disk controller (usually 5, 6 or 7).
>
> > Can I access the drives with DOS 3.3 or do I need ProDOS or a
special
> > program/driver to access the hard drives? Can you tell me the basic
> > DOS command to access the drives?
>
> Depends on if you have DOS 3.3 software drivers installed for the
> harddisk. If you do, a "CATALOG" follower by a slot and drive number
> should be enough to just check that it works. Note that since DOS 3.3
> had a limited maximum size of disk volumes (400 K), hard drives were
> usually "partitioned" into multiple DOS "volumes", which were
> distinguished by the "volume" parameter of the DOS command line.
>
> (once I modified FID so that it also took the volume number as
> input, to enable it to move files back and forth from the Corvus
> Constellation hard drive, which contained multiple DOS volumes)
>
> > If the system runs, I am planning on using ADT and/or Oasis (or
another
> > emulator) to transfer files and disks back and forth between my PC
and
> > the Apple II. Will I be able to access files on the Apple II hard
> > disks directly on my PC,
>
> No! At least not through ADT
>
> > or do I need to transfer the hard disk files to an Apple II floppy
> > first (and vice versa)?
>
> Yes -- ADT is hardcoded for 140K 16-sector 35-track floppies and will
> be unable to handle any other disk geometries.
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Paul Schlyter, Swedish Amateur Astronomer's Society (SAAF)
> Grev Turegatan 40, S-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
> e-mail: pausch at saaf dot se or paul.schlyter at ausys dot se
> WWW: http://hotel04.ausys.se/pausch http://welcome.to/pausch
>
R.A.Guy
>Any suggestions? Have I burned out a card or the motherboard? What
>are common ways to try to recover the computer?
Try removing the HD controller card and then turn on the Apple. If you get the
same result it is likely the problem is the motherboard. If you get something
different, it may be the HD controller card.
LJSilicon
(.)(.) (:)(:) (.)(.) (:)(:) (.)(.) (:)(:) (.)(.) (:)(:) (.)(.) (:)(:) (.)(.)
(:)(:) (.)(.) (:)(:) (.)(.)
I put the "FUN" back in dysfunctional!
Get paid to surf the web. Sign up for AllAdvantage.
http://www.AllAdvantage.com Reference # iam663
Roy and/or Janet Miller
8 sitting on a shelf in my garage.)
Roy
cj...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I took out the SCSI cards and there was no change. After trying ctrl-
> apple-reset for a while, the Power supply started making a high pitched
> sound and clicking.
>
> I have the feeling that the power supply may have overheated and burned
> out. It was only on for about 2 hours though. Do these symptom sound
> like a bad power supply? The motherboard and cards all seem to be in
> good shape (clean and dust free).
>
> I got the system for free, so unless I can trouble shoot it easily, I
> should probably just buy another system...(or not)
>
> In article <20000709193242...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
> (R.A.Guy) wrote:
> > Cjyo wrote...
> >
> > >Any suggestions? Have I burned out a card or the motherboard? What
> > >are common ways to try to recover the computer?
> >
> > Try removing the HD controller card and then turn on the Apple. If
> you get the
> > same result it is likely the problem is the motherboard. If you get
> something
> > different, it may be the HD controller card.
> >
> > LJSilicon
> >
>
cj...@my-deja.com
ja...@my-deja.com
indicate the the switch mode power supply has died. I would try and
get another one or at a pinch rewiring a PC supply would work.
JAQ
In article <8kbdao$q14$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
cj...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I took out the SCSI cards and there was no change. After trying ctrl-
> apple-reset for a while, the Power supply started making a high
pitched
> sound and clicking.
>
> I have the feeling that the power supply may have overheated and
burned
> out. It was only on for about 2 hours though. Do these symptom sound
> like a bad power supply? The motherboard and cards all seem to be in
> good shape (clean and dust free).
>
> I got the system for free, so unless I can trouble shoot it easily, I
> should probably just buy another system...(or not)
>
cj...@my-deja.com
Coincidentally: I just noticed this auction on ebay which describes a
dead system with exactly the same symtoms as mine:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=378385398
It does say the Power Supply burned out. I hope that's all that's
wrong with mine...
In article <3969522D...@inetnebr.com>,
Roy and/or Janet Miller <mil...@inetnebr.com> wrote:
> You could try getting a new power supply. They should be cheap...
(I've got
> 8 sitting on a shelf in my garage.)
>
> Roy
>
> cj...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I took out the SCSI cards and there was no change. After trying
ctrl-
> > apple-reset for a while, the Power supply started making a high
pitched
> > sound and clicking.
> >
> > I have the feeling that the power supply may have overheated and
burned
> > out. It was only on for about 2 hours though. Do these symptom
sound
> > like a bad power supply? The motherboard and cards all seem to be
in
> > good shape (clean and dust free).
> >
> > I got the system for free, so unless I can trouble shoot it easily,
I
> > should probably just buy another system...(or not)
> >
> > In article <20000709193242...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
> > (R.A.Guy) wrote:
> > > Cjyo wrote...
> > >
> > > >Any suggestions? Have I burned out a card or the motherboard?
What
> > > >are common ways to try to recover the computer?
> > >
> > > Try removing the HD controller card and then turn on the Apple. If
> > you get the
> > > same result it is likely the problem is the motherboard. If you
get
> > something
> > > different, it may be the HD controller card.
> > >
> > > LJSilicon
> > >
> >
cj...@my-deja.com
co-workers had bought me a complete Apple II+ system for $7 at a Church
sale. I guess I was talking a lot about the IIe last week...
Anyway, the first thing I did was switch the II+ on to see if it
worked. It did, but there are thin vertical lines all across the
screen. I guess the video chip has gone bad.
The next thing I did was try the II+ power supply in the IIe. Still
nothing (with no cards in) - just the same thick vertical bars on the
screen. I took another look at the IIe power supply and I think it is
actually okay - the fuse still looks good. I'm sure glad I didn't
order another power supply.
I think one of the chips on the IIe motherboard must be burned out. I
popped out a few of the chips: CPU, Video Rom, etc, then put them back
in, but that didn't change anything.
I'm going to give up on that IIe, since I have the II+ now. The II+
has a 16mb RAM card (so a total of 64k, I guess). I also put in the
IIe's CMS SCSI card, SD-20 hard disk and also the Profile hard disk and
controller card.
On the II+ the CMS drive does boot like in the IIe, with a ProDOS 8
v1.4 screen. I didn't get a chance to try the Profile drive on the IIe
before it died, but on the II+ the Profile disk says "unable to load
ProDOS." I guess the Profile may have a newer system and the II+
doesn't have enough RAM. I realized today that the CMS disk doesn't
have a terminator - I wonder if that could have fried chips on the IIe
motherboard (even the the drive and SCSI card still work)?
What started out as a free project (I found the full IIe system with
the CMS and Profile hard disks), is now getting "expensive." Since I
have already ordered some manuals, system disks and a serial card, I
will probably try to buy another IIe system that can handle the hard
disks...(and has a good video chip, unlike the II+)
Or maybe I'll just buy a GS...I've never played around with those
before. But it's not as nostalgic...
Maybe I should have never picked up the IIe in the first place...?
:)
In article <8kbmed$79$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
ja...@my-deja.com wrote:
> The symptoms you describe (high pitched sound and clicking) generally
> indicate the the switch mode power supply has died. I would try and
> get another one or at a pinch rewiring a PC supply would work.
>
> JAQ
Rubywand
>
> ...Well, I walked in to my office this morning to find that one of my
> co-workers had bought me a complete Apple II+ system for $7 at a Church
> sale. I guess I was talking a lot about the IIe last week...
>
> Anyway, the first thing I did was switch the II+ on to see if it
> worked. It did, but there are thin vertical lines all across the
> screen. I guess the video chip has gone bad.
Actually, the II+ does not have a video chip.
Thin vertical lines could indicate that your video output level needs to
be adjusted. (Not all Apple II's have this adjustement; but, the II+ does.)
The Video Output Level adjustment is a mini-pot (a small wheel with a slot)
located in the right rear corner of the motherboard, pretty near the Video
Out socket.
Working between the II+ adjustment and the monitor's Brightness and
Contrast controls, you should be able to get rid of the lines. (Also, some
monitors have a Video Input Level adjustment which may need to be diddled to
get a stable, clear display.)
>
> The next thing I did was try the II+ power supply in the IIe. Still
> nothing (with no cards in) - just the same thick vertical bars on the
> screen. I took another look at the IIe power supply and I think it is
> actually okay - the fuse still looks good. I'm sure glad I didn't
> order another power supply.
>
> I think one of the chips on the IIe motherboard must be burned out. I
> popped out a few of the chips: CPU, Video Rom, etc, then put them back
> in, but that didn't change anything.
>
> I'm going to give up on that IIe, since I have the II+ now. The II+
> has a 16mb RAM card (so a total of 64k, I guess). I also put in the
> IIe's CMS SCSI card, SD-20 hard disk and also the Profile hard disk and
> controller card.
>
....
The power supply clicking you mention in an earlier posting is a symptom
of an Apple II power supply which believes it is overloaded or not loaded at
all. Plugging in both hard disk controllers and drives may bring you close to
overloading the power supply. It may be a good idea to pick one controller +
hard disk set and (with all power OFF) pull the other.
>
> Or maybe I'll just buy a GS...I've never played around with those
> before. But it's not as nostalgic...
>
> Maybe I should have never picked up the IIe in the first place...?
>
> :)
>
Maybe; but, now you're hooked!
Rubywand
Phoenyx
chip will work in the 2+ and you may have one on the 2e board.
--
Thank you for your time and interest. I hope it was helpful
or at least interesting.
Phoenyx,
Apple2 user since March 1984
Links to Phoenyx's pages:
preferred..... http://zip.to/Phoenyx_A2
alternate..... http://www.tinyangeldesigns.com/Apple2
cj...@my-deja.com
Actually, the CMS does work on the II+, but the Profile doesn't. So
maybe the ProDOS system on the Profile has this 65C02 issue, if not a
RAM issue.
In article <396BB9FF...@dcnet2000.com>,
cj...@my-deja.com
lines completely. I also tried it on two monitors with the same result
(bad). For the 2 hours that my dead IIe was running, the same monitor
(Apple Green mono) was crystal clear.
It is usable, but I don't know for how long.
I actually think the power supply on the IIe is fine now. After more
advice and careful inspection it seems okay (and the fuse is good).
I think I will take your advice and try only one hard disk/controller
at a time, when I can get the (or another) IIe running again.
In article <396AD504...@swbell.net>,
ruby...@swbell.net wrote:
> cj...@my-deja.com writes ...
> > Anyway, the first thing I did was switch the II+ on to see if it
> > worked. It did, but there are thin vertical lines all across the
> > screen. I guess the video chip has gone bad.
>
> Actually, the II+ does not have a video chip.
>
> Thin vertical lines could indicate that your video output level
needs to
> be adjusted. (Not all Apple II's have this adjustement; but, the II+
does.)
> The Video Output Level adjustment is a mini-pot (a small wheel with a
slot)
> located in the right rear corner of the motherboard, pretty near the
Video
> Out socket.
>
> Working between the II+ adjustment and the monitor's Brightness
and
> Contrast controls, you should be able to get rid of the lines. (Also,
some
> monitors have a Video Input Level adjustment which may need to be
diddled to
> get a stable, clear display.)
> > Maybe I should have never picked up the IIe in the first place...?
> >
> > :)
> >
> Maybe; but, now you're hooked!
YEP. I am bidding on a Motherboard now and watching a few systems...
ground.ecn AppleII Librarian
Paul Schlyter <pau...@saafNOSPAM.se> wrote:
>In article <processoroverclock...@dialup-napanet-206-81-102-22.napanet.net>,
>Jon Bettencourt <processoro...@33mhz.cjb.net> wrote:
>
>
>> DOS 3.3 can only access disks up to 400K (and that's with a whole lotta
>> modification).
>
>> You need ProDOS to access the hard disk.
>
>Well, that depends. Some harddisks were actually accessible from DOS.
>Due to the limited size of DOS disks, the harddisk was partitioned into
>multiple DOS "volumes", which were distinguished by adding the "V"
>(volume) parameter to DOS commands accessing the hard disk.
>
>Perhaps it was only the Corvus Constellation which implemented this
>though? That harddisk was 5 MBytes, and was divided into 35 or 36
>DOS "volumes" of 140K each.
>
The FCP Sider harddrives worked like this too. You could allocate small
(140K) and large (400K) DOS disks, which were accessed by the V parameter.
Both of my Siders died several years ago so I am recalling from faulty
memory and am unable to verify by hands-on testing. :-)
--
--Steve (appl...@ground.ecn.uiowa.edu)
Phoenyx
Profile.
Yes, the 65c02 will work. In fact I think another user here has
a II+ with a 65c02 and HD. In fact, IIRC, we were discussing
his system not having Applesoft. A rather interesting system
which I am more than a little curious about. While ProDos
doesn't require Applesoft, there are a lot of Basic programs
he will miss out on.
The extra 64k ram should not be an issue unless you require
using a 128k application. Some programs require it. It is highly
recommended you get extra ram though, it's very useful. I have
never tried the AE style ram cards in a II+, but I see no reason
why they wouldn't work.
cj...@my-deja.com
a //e back up and running soon!
In article <396D59DC...@dcnet2000.com>,
Jack Countryman
done via resistors on the circuit board on the actual drive mechanism
inside the CMS case.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Wilson
>So I can actually pop my 65C02 chip into the II+ and it will work?
It depends :-(. If you read Jim Sather's book Understanding the IIe it talks
about the 65C02 & enhanced ROMs for the //e. He also describes what happened
when he tried a number of 65C02 chips in a ][+. Basically, the timing in a ][+
is worse than that in a //e and some 65C02 chips do not work quite well enough
in a ][+. If you have problems try a different brand - I think he mentioned
that the Rockwell part worked better but I would have to check that.
--
David Wilson School of IT & CS, Uni of Wollongong, Australia
Matt Jenkins
> On the II+ the CMS drive does boot like in the IIe, with a ProDOS 8
> v1.4 screen. I didn't get a chance to try the Profile drive on the IIe
> before it died, but on the II+ the Profile disk says "unable to load
> ProDOS." I guess the Profile may have a newer system and the II+
> doesn't have enough RAM. I realized today that the CMS disk doesn't
> have a terminator - I wonder if that could have fried chips on the IIe
> motherboard (even the the drive and SCSI card still work)?
The reason the profile doesn't boot up is more likely that the ProDOS
operating system file isn't on the disk; That message is posted by the
ProDOS boot sector code when it's unable to load the operating system.
You'll probably be able to see what's on the Profile. Just boot from the
CMS
as you have done with the Profile in some other slot, then from BASIC
type
CAT, Sn where n is the slot the profile controller card is.
If it comes up with an empty listing, oh well, but there may be some
goodies hiding
away on there!
> What started out as a free project (I found the full IIe system with
> the CMS and Profile hard disks), is now getting "expensive." Since I
> have already ordered some manuals, system disks and a serial card, I
> will probably try to buy another IIe system that can handle the hard
> disks...(and has a good video chip, unlike the II+)
>
> Or maybe I'll just buy a GS...I've never played around with those
> before. But it's not as nostalgic...
And a lot more expensive to get to a nice state. Your lucky to have
found
a //e with nice cards already installed. I'd be cheap to soup up that
system.
Cheers,
Matt