FC5025 5.25" USB floppy controller available
schmidtd
<quote>
The FC5025 5.25" USB floppy controller is now available!
Device Side Data's FC5025 USB 5.25" floppy controller plugs into a
USB port and enables you to attach a 5.25" floppy drive. With the
FC5025
and its included software, you can read Apple, Atari, Commodore, MS-
DOS,
North Star and TI disks.
For more information and to order, see the web site: http://www.deviceside.com
Before ordering, please note the limitations described on the web
site. In
particular, the FC5025 is read-only; it can read floppies but it can't
write
to them.
</quote>
I'm not affiliated in any way, but I did succumb to a knee-jerk
reaction to order one. That was before I remembered I don't have a
1.2MB 5.25" floppy drive to hook up to it. ;-)
D Finnigan
schmidtd
> So this supersedes the device being worked on by Mr. Willegal?
Well, yes - but they are doing two different things. Mr. Willegal's
device hooks up a genuine Disk II disk via USB and reads Apple
formats. The Device Side device hooks up a HD (i.e. IBM PC/AT) floppy
drive via USB, and can read various formats (Apple among them).
BLuRry
Except you can't read the flip side of disks unless they have an index
hole on both sides.
schmidtd
> Except you can't read the flip side of disks unless they have an index
> hole on both sides.
Good point. That is mentioned on the website. It also seems to
indicate that it might depend on the drive hardware. Any idea which
drive might be able to overcome the lack of index hole?
D Finnigan
> Any idea which
> drive might be able to overcome the lack of index hole?
>
The one for which Mr. Willegal is attempting to build a USB controller.
Steven Hirsch
> This came across my desk yesterday - I guess I get to "scoop" it:
(snip)
Heh. Just ordered one.
Bill Garber
"Steven Hirsch" <snhi...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:3POdnTYqasPVeuPW...@giganews.com...
Heh-heh! Me, too.
Bill
AppleCPM
On Feb 19, 2:32 pm, Steven wrote:
> Heh. Just ordered one.
Sounds as if I'll be getting one. BUT, I'll wait until I hear
from you and Bill about your reactions to the device.
Willi
barana
many formats. And can hook up a mac drive electrically and
physically.
*me thinks. with a bit of software creativity, reading of a smartport
HD would be achievable
Just my 2 cents
Steven Hirsch
> The catweasel is a FAR more capable device imho. 3.5 5.25 and 8 inch ,
> many formats. And can hook up a mac drive electrically and
> physically.
Since when? I have a CW MkIV+ and do not recall seeing anything in the docs
about compatibility with mac drives. References?
That said, it is far more capable. If you want to spend 3x the money.
Michael J. Mahon
The simplest way is to modify a drive so that index pulses are always
produced, either by simply injecting a pulse stream or by adding an
ORed index hole detector on the opposite side of the drive.
That is the approach suggested for DISK2FDI.
This adapter seems like a "USB-Weasel". ;-)
-michael
NadaNet and AppleCrate II: parallel computing for Apple II computers!
Home page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon
"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."
schmidtd
And if you can find one. (I still have one in my closet... need to
find an old PC to stick it in one of these days.)
So, My FC5025 arrived today. I was only expecting the bare board - I
was pleasantly surprised to get a USB cable and a floppy drive cable
as well in the package, along with a CD of software. How quaint!
I'll need to wait for a suitable 1.2MB drive to materialize now.
On the "flippy" issue - I emailed Adam at Device Side, and he said the
TEAC he tested with didn't work without the index hole on the other
side.
Steven Hirsch
> On Feb 20, 9:24 am, Steven Hirsch <snhir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> barana wrote:
>>> The catweasel is a FAR more capable device imho. 3.5 5.25 and 8 inch ,
>>> many formats. And can hook up a mac drive electrically and
>>> physically.
>> Since when? I have a CW MkIV+ and do not recall seeing anything in the docs
>> about compatibility with mac drives. References?
>>
>> That said, it is far more capable. If you want to spend 3x the money.
>
> And if you can find one. (I still have one in my closet... need to
> find an old PC to stick it in one of these days.)
Is Jens out of stock again? I picked mine up from Red's Retro-Computing in
Florida before he went out of business. It was around $130 IIRC.
> So, My FC5025 arrived today. I was only expecting the bare board - I
> was pleasantly surprised to get a USB cable and a floppy drive cable
> as well in the package, along with a CD of software. How quaint!
> I'll need to wait for a suitable 1.2MB drive to materialize now.
>
> On the "flippy" issue - I emailed Adam at Device Side, and he said the
> TEAC he tested with didn't work without the index hole on the other
> side.
I just received the shipping notice for mine. Should have it by middle of
next week.
joltenjoe
I had at one point been talking to the developers and they did put me
in touch with Reds and one other reseller perhaps Jens. One responded
and seemed fairly responsive. The problem at the time was that they
really didn't have the Apple II side worked out very well. I was told
to post on the developers forum to request support. I had been told
that they'd get write access going but had no date set. I passed on
it.
However I see that this place is in Frisco. I have no idea if they
are any good or not.
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=842¤cy=USD
Steven Hirsch
> I had at one point been talking to the developers and they did put me
> in touch with Reds and one other reseller perhaps Jens. One responded
> and seemed fairly responsive. The problem at the time was that they
> really didn't have the Apple II side worked out very well. I was told
> to post on the developers forum to request support. I had been told
> that they'd get write access going but had no date set. I passed on
> it.
>
> However I see that this place is in Frisco. I have no idea if they
> are any good or not.
>
> http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=842¤cy=USD
Leaman? They are in the UK, AFAIK. At least, everything I've bought from
them over the years has come Royal Mail.
Mike Spurgeon
> Leaman? They are in the UK, AFAIK. At least, everything I've bought from
> them over the years has come Royal Mail.
They're several places. There's a 'find your country' link that shows:
Mailing Address (US):
Leaman Computing Ltd
548 Market St #38140
San Francisco, CA 94104
U.S.A.
Michael J. Mahon
my TEAC FD-55 drive to try it out.
Although it offers the option to view the directory of ProDOS
disks, unless you really don't know what's on a disk, that isn't
used much.
The host program for the FC5025 allows creating 140K DOS-order
(.dsk) or ProDOS-order (.po) images of standard-format 5.25" disks.
If you can VERIFY a disk with Copy II Plus, then you can image it.
All 16-sector disks can be imaged either in DOS-order or ProDOS-
order, and (of course) the convention is to use the order appropriate
to the OS. But many emulators and CiderPress auto-detect the sector
order, and are tolerant of mismatches.
That said, the program images in ProDOS order in about 30 seconds,
while DOS-order takes about 70 seconds, so if you have a lot of disks
to image, do them in ProDOS order and then, if necessary, "swizzle"
the images needing DOS-order later using a utility program.
The FC5025 reads Apple disks one sector at a time, though it is
capable (with more effort) of reading short blobs of nibbles from
a track. Presumeably one could read a track a couple of times in
short "blobs" and then stitch them together (kind of like DNA
sequencing ;-).
Unfortunately, no raw track reading option is implemented, so using
this hardware/firmware for more general Apple II disk imaging is an
exercise for the reader. ;-) It would be worth doing, however, since
it would allow the creation of .nib images of mildly nonstandard disk
formats, and eventually capture and deprotection of truly nonstandard
formats.
For most people who want to image their libraries of non-copy-protected
disks, this device is quite useful--even if you do have to go back and
rename all the image files to something meaningful.
It cannot read the back side of "flippy" disks without either cutting
a second index-sensing hole in the disk jacket (easy for a few disks)
or modifying the FD-55 drive to sense index holes when a disk is
flipped over (probably easier for a lot of disks).
Maybe someone will start offering a FD-55, modified to handle
"flippy" disks, in a case with a power supply and the FC5025,
ready to connect to a USB port!
Michael J. Mahon
> I received my FC5025 a few weeks ago, but only now got access to
> my TEAC FD-55 drive to try it out.
>
> Although it offers the option to view the directory of ProDOS
> disks, unless you really don't know what's on a disk, that isn't
> used much.
>
> The host program for the FC5025 allows creating 140K DOS-order
> (.dsk) or ProDOS-order (.po) images of standard-format 5.25" disks.
> If you can VERIFY a disk with Copy II Plus, then you can image it.
>
> All 16-sector disks can be imaged either in DOS-order or ProDOS-
> order, and (of course) the convention is to use the order appropriate
> to the OS. But many emulators and CiderPress auto-detect the sector
> order, and are tolerant of mismatches.
>
> That said, the program images in ProDOS order in about 30 seconds,
> while DOS-order takes about 70 seconds, so if you have a lot of disks
> to image, do them in ProDOS order and then, if necessary, "swizzle"
> the images needing DOS-order later using a utility program.
Bill Garber kindly pointed out to me that you can select and type
in a filename of your choice prior to creating an image.
From reading the source, I note that if the filename you type in
ends with decimal digit(s), they will be auto-incremented after
each image creation--handy for multi-disk packages.
Steven Hirsch
> Maybe someone will start offering a FD-55, modified to handle
> "flippy" disks, in a case with a power supply and the FC5025,
> ready to connect to a USB port!
Don't know about the "flippy" diskette mod, but an older (mid-90s) vintage
external CD-ROM case is just perfect for holding and powering the drive. I
cannibalized an Apple CD300i SCSI external unit yesterday. Unfortunately,
this chassis did not have room inside for the PCB, so I removed the 50-pin
"Centronics" style connectors and ran the 34-pin ribbon cable out one of the
mounting holes. Used a pair of Panduit nylon panel anchors and small
tie-wraps to hold the board on the top (if you unclip the little mount
brackets, you'll have a pair of holes at each end at the perfect spacing for
this!)
Looks reasonably neat and took about 15-minutes to whip up.
Getting all the software working under Linux is currently a bit of a
challenge, but eventually I got everything cooperating.
Steve
Sheppy
handle flippy disks correctly? Almost every disk I have is flippy, so
modifying my drive is likely to be something I'll want to do (or, more
likely, find someone else to do for me, since as many of you know,
hardware and I don't get along well).
Sheppy
Bill Garber
"Sheppy" <the.s...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:07dfdd15-
96dc-4455-ab5...@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
I don't know if this board will operate one, but one of the
Catweasel forums says to get a 360K drive, which is capable
of single sided disks by nature. I believe I may have one
fairly handy and I will give this a try sometime this afternoon.
Bill
Michael J. Mahon
Unfortunately, any drive will still fail to generate index
pulses if a disk is flipped.
I don't recall where I read it, but a couple of years ago, I found
a web article on modifying a drive to generate index pulses when a
disk is flipped.
It presented two methods. One was installing a second LED-
phototransistor pair on the other side of the drive, ORed with
the existing one (just paralleled with the emitter and collector),
so that index pulses were generated regardless of disk side.
The other method injected pulses from the drive motor (I believe
using a Hall effect pickup) instead of real index pulses.
The second method is a lot neater, though you give up the ability
to tell whether the disk is actually spinning when the motor is
turning. ;-)
I'll see if I can find it again...or maybe one of you can. ;-)
Michael J. Mahon
> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>
>> Maybe someone will start offering a FD-55, modified to handle
>> "flippy" disks, in a case with a power supply and the FC5025,
>> ready to connect to a USB port!
>
>
> Don't know about the "flippy" diskette mod, but an older (mid-90s)
> vintage external CD-ROM case is just perfect for holding and powering
> the drive. I cannibalized an Apple CD300i SCSI external unit
> yesterday. Unfortunately, this chassis did not have room inside for the
> PCB, so I removed the 50-pin "Centronics" style connectors and ran the
> 34-pin ribbon cable out one of the mounting holes. Used a pair of
> Panduit nylon panel anchors and small tie-wraps to hold the board on the
> top (if you unclip the little mount brackets, you'll have a pair of
> holes at each end at the perfect spacing for this!)
>
> Looks reasonably neat and took about 15-minutes to whip up.
I put my FD-55 and the FC5025 into an external case last night.
It took a little destruction of the "built-in" USB to IDE board,
but now it all works and looks pretty--even with a rear "power"
light. ;-)
external drive has an external power brick, but that's fine
with me.
It was a white plastic case that I picked up at Fry's about a year
ago because it was about $10 after the rebate. It's the same
width and height as a standard 5.25" drive, and about 2" longer.
I cut off the IDE pins on the included adapter board, which also
carries the power and USB-B connectors and the power LED.
That mangling made rom for the FC5025 to fit under that board
after Dremeling off two of its four mounting posts. It's still
quite secure.
Then I used the Dremel to cut the traces to the built-in's USB
connector (except for ground) and wired it to the USB connector
on the FC5025.
It works great, looks untouched, and finally puts that cheapie
enclosure to use. ;-)
Next step--the two-sided index pulse mod... ;-)
Dave Rawson
> Next step--the two-sided index pulse mod... ;-)
I'm happy to report (with long and tortuous detours of heroic
proportion) that I've ported the oldest of my Apple sides over to PC as
proof-of-concept. I purchased the FC5025 and the Teac FD55GFR and the
combination worked. I took note of Mike's notes about ProDos being
faster and it worked as well as ".dsk", so why not.
CiderPress recognizes the disks as MagicWindow files and will
automatically extract them to PC readable ".txt" files when requested!
There are some eccentricities that I don't have the time or coherence
enough to describe right now, but I can already imagine some possible
approaches to dealing with them.
So, I've read about 30 front sides and ache to read the backs. I've
jumped the E2 to no avail. All the floppies are already punched for
both sides since that's the way I used them.
Has anyone been able to read the backs, punched and jumpered, yet?
If so, is there any way to predict which of the FD55s allow this?
As an incidental approach to bad sector reads, has anyone tried the
"browse" option which allows working file by file, if necessary, so that
a whole ".dsk" image isn't 'bad' or necessary?
Thanks again to everyone for their encouragement and help!
Michael J. Mahon
> Michael J. Mahon wrote:
>
>> Next step--the two-sided index pulse mod... ;-)
>
>
> I'm happy to report (with long and tortuous detours of heroic
> proportion) that I've ported the oldest of my Apple sides over to PC as
> proof-of-concept. I purchased the FC5025 and the Teac FD55GFR and the
> combination worked. I took note of Mike's notes about ProDos being
> faster and it worked as well as ".dsk", so why not.
>
> CiderPress recognizes the disks as MagicWindow files and will
> automatically extract them to PC readable ".txt" files when requested!
>
> There are some eccentricities that I don't have the time or coherence
> enough to describe right now, but I can already imagine some possible
> approaches to dealing with them.
>
> So, I've read about 30 front sides and ache to read the backs. I've
> jumped the E2 to no avail. All the floppies are already punched for
> both sides since that's the way I used them.
>
> Has anyone been able to read the backs, punched and jumpered, yet?
>
> If so, is there any way to predict which of the FD55s allow this?
Unfortunately, none. ;-(
There are two ways to read the back sides:
1) Cut out or punch two new "index access" holes in the jacket on
the other side (laterally, not up/down) of the jacket. It should
be in an angular position symmetric with the existing pair. This
set of holes will allow the FD-55 index sensor to "see" the existing
index hole in the disk media when the disk is upside down in the
drive.
2) Modify the FD-55 to either allow it to sense the index hold from
either side (laterally, again) of the drive, or modify it to see
"fake" index pulsed generated from the rotation of the spindle motor.
(I'm still looking for the web article that described making these
modifications.)
> As an incidental approach to bad sector reads, has anyone tried the
> "browse" option which allows working file by file, if necessary, so that
> a whole ".dsk" image isn't 'bad' or necessary?
I haven't tried any disks with bad sectors, but a quick perusal of
the code of the host program suggests that all the good sectors are
copied to the image, with only the bad sectors represented as either
zeroes or some random data (I don't know which, and haven't done the
experiment).
If this is the case, even a "bummer" image will have all that the
program could recover in "file mode".
BTW, in my experience, the vast majority of disks with "bad sectors"
are ultimately recoverable with unusual means, so don't throw them
out if you might want the contents!
> Thanks again to everyone for their encouragement and help!
I'm very happy to hear that you are recovering your data. ;-)
gary rockey
gary rockey
> This came across my desk yesterday - I guess I get to "scoop" it:
> The FC5025 5.25" USB floppy controller is now available!
> Device Side Data's FC5025 USB 5.25" floppy controller plugs into a
> USB port and enables you to attach a 5.25" floppy drive. With the
> FC5025
> and its included software, you can read Apple, Atari, Commodore, MS-
> DOS,
> North Star and TI disks.
> For more information and to order, see the web site: http://www.deviceside.com
> Before ordering, please note the limitations described on the web
> site. In
> particular, the FC5025 is read-only; it can read floppies but it can't
> write
> to them.
> </quote>
> I'm not affiliated in any way, but I did succumb to a knee-jerk
> reaction to order one. That was before I remembered I don't have a
> 1.2MB 5.25" floppy drive to hook up to it. ;-)
gary rockey
gary rockey
fadden
> Where might I get one of these 5.25 floppy adapters? Device Side Date is locked out. If anyone has one please contact me ...g. L. Rockey...web site wwwglrockey.com ..... email glro...@att.net
Various options are available now, depending on what you want to accomplish. For physical disk access, https://applesaucefdc.com/hardware/ may be what you need.
David Schmidt
> [...]
browser may or may not care for. Here's the page for ordering - which
involves an email:
http://shop.deviceside.com/policy.html#contact
I don't have any idea if stock is still available, but the web page
makes it look that way.
Garrett Meiers
> On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 5:34:35 AM UTC-7, gary rockey wrote:
> > Where might I get one of these 5.25 floppy adapters? Device Side Date is locked out. If anyone has one please contact me ...g. L. Rockey...web site wwwglrockey.com ..... email glro...@att.net