Apple II Astronomy?

db

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Jun 23, 2014, 9:55:41 PM6/23/14

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Hi again, everyone. I'm a very amateur backyard astronomer. A while back I tried out an astronomy program called Tellstar. However, it didn't have the ability to enter a date beyond 1999. Are there any other astronomy programs for the A2 that don't suffer from this Y2K bug (bet you haven't heard that in awhile ; >) or is it just the nature of the beast with any time stamped programs on A2?

db

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Jun 23, 2014, 10:57:25 PM6/23/14

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I found this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TellStar on wikipedia that states, "TellStar could predict the position of celestial objects on any point of the earth at any time between 0 and 3000AD." So, thinking I might have been remembering it wrong I tried it again and after entering coordinate info it asked for the date anytime between 1975 and 1999 :<

Michael Black

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Jun 23, 2014, 11:25:28 PM6/23/14

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That reminds me of the time Carl Helmers was getting set to travel to an
eclipse, and wrote about the preparations in a Byte editorial. I'm sure
he was taking an Apple II, and I'm sure he was using Apple Pascal. He
fussed over fixing up something from the Apple II to control the camera.

Michael

db

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Jun 23, 2014, 11:39:13 PM6/23/14

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I'm not really sure how your anecdote relates to what I'm asking. I'm not "fussing" over anything. Absolutely no apple ii software is essential to my life. It's merely an interest. I don't need the software to use my telescope or know about the night sky. Actually, my scope has a computer built-in. That's how far we've come. I'm just curious to know if there's any astronomy software written for the A2 that is still useable today. Thanks for the input though : >

Michael Black

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Jun 23, 2014, 11:54:13 PM6/23/14

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It has nothing to do with your question, though on the other hand, the
minute I saw "Apple Astronomy" in your subject header, the anecdote came
to mind. It is indeed something related to the subject of "Apple
Astronomy".

Michael

db

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Jun 24, 2014, 12:07:10 AM6/24/14

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Fair enough. Tellstar looks like a pretty cool program for 1986, actually. It can be seen here http://www.filmannex.com/movie/astronomy-software/24732 at about 6:45. He's using the DOS version, obviously. So, perhaps this 0 to 3000AD thing was only for DOS people. Apple people: only the last 25 years of the 20th century. Sorry! No wonder people started turning in droves to cheap PCs back then :P

Michael J. Mahon

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Jun 24, 2014, 12:48:04 AM6/24/14

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Blame the lazy programmer(s) of Tellstar, not "Apple people". ;-)

Take a look inside Tellstar and you can probably fix the problem. I'll bet
it's written in Applesoft.

Check out the short Applesoft program called "Ephemeris". It will locate
all the planets.
--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

db

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Jun 24, 2014, 1:48:16 AM6/24/14

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I wasn't actually blaming the Apple people but just pointing out how we've been often screwed over the years when it comes to software availability. Of course, that cuts both ways. There was a whole lot more crap released for the PC compared to Apple too.

> Take a look inside Tellstar and you can probably fix the problem. I'll bet
>
> it's written in Applesoft.

Yes, that was going to be my next question. While I'm not capable of doing it myself yet I'm laying down the gauntlet for some hotshot to do this and make it available. It's a cool educational program that the Apple II community should be able to use.

> Check out the short Applesoft program called "Ephemeris". It will locate
>
> all the planets.

Thanks for the cool disk, Michael. While Ephemeris gives you a printout of the coordinates of the planets it doesn't give you a give you a graphical representation of those planets in their field of stars that is selectable with a joystick or keyboard and will also outline constellations. The Ursa Stars program will give you a simple representation of the major constellations that are viewable at any selected time and which can be rotated hour by hour.

Michael Black

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Jun 24, 2014, 2:05:19 AM6/24/14

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There was a book that came out I think in the late seventies "Astronomy
on the Pocket Calculator" or something like that, I don't have the book
handy. It gave a lot of different calculations related to astronomy, of
course some were interelated.

They were there before, but this showed it done with a calculator. For
the hobbyist, they mostly would have relied on tables rather than doing
calculations, the same thing happened with hobby electronics, once there
were pocket calculators actual equations showed up more frequently in the
magazines and books.

I gather the book was revised into something like "Astronomy on the
Computer", which of course would likely mean BASIC and a just type them
in. I did a search a few years ago and never found what I'd hoped, that
someone had turned the book into subroutines or one big program. At
least, nobody had admitted it.

But with the book, it's just a matter of some time to create a computer
program or multiple programs in whatever language to replicate the work.
I know I downloaded a BASIC for my Blackberry Playbook Tablet intended to
at least translate the equations to BASIC, but didn't get further than
downloading the BASIC.

Michael

db

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Jun 24, 2014, 2:10:37 AM6/24/14

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I noticed that Ephemeris was by Paul Lutus. Very prolific Apple II guy in the early days! And in the interview I linked in the Word Processing thread I started he talks about doing just what you're talking about: running planetary trajectory programs on his scientific calculator. I think he said he got some of them published in a magazine back in the day.

James

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Jun 24, 2014, 5:31:35 AM6/24/14

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What version of TelStar are you using....I just booted up TelStar Version 1.03 on my IIc and it allowed me to enter 2014 for the viewing date.

Another program is SkyTravel, but I have not tried it.

Also Nibble Planetarium isn't bad, but unsure about how accurate it is. You can add more star data to it since it is written in Applesoft basic.

Jim

James

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Jun 24, 2014, 5:56:45 AM6/24/14

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Opps..sorry for the misspelling...meant TellStar V. 1.03

db

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Jun 24, 2014, 6:52:25 AM6/24/14

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On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:56:45 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
> Opps..sorry for the misspelling...meant TellStar V. 1.03

Can you link me to it?

Jeff Blakeney

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Jun 24, 2014, 10:05:45 AM6/24/14

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The only astronomy program I can remember was for the IIgs. I believe
it was called "The Night Sky". Can't seem to find a link to it but I
know I played with it a bit back in the early 90's. Asked for your
latitude and longitude and drew things in the sky from that perspective
on whatever date and time you were interested in.

db

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Jun 24, 2014, 10:30:28 AM6/24/14

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On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:56:45 AM UTC-4, James wrote:

> Opps..sorry for the misspelling...meant TellStar V. 1.03

I found this version at macgui but it has the file extension .nib which I've never heard of before and the file size is 233kb as opposed to the standard 143kb I'm used to. Am I able to write this to a standard 5.25" floppy that will work in my IIc?

db

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Jun 24, 2014, 10:31:02 AM6/24/14

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I wish I had a GS!

David Schmidt

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Jun 24, 2014, 10:40:07 AM6/24/14

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Not easily. Try this one from Asimov:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/games/simulation/TellStar
1.03.dsk
(note the space in the name)

db

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Jun 24, 2014, 10:49:50 AM6/24/14

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Sorry, Dave but I'm just getting a 404 there.

db

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Jun 24, 2014, 10:52:16 AM6/24/14

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Oops! In my haste I didn't notice the space message. Got it now! I'll test it out soon.

D Finnigan

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Jun 24, 2014, 11:57:03 AM6/24/14

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Here is the link to it on Mac GUI:
http://macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=6938&keywords=tellstar

Michael J. Mahon

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Jun 24, 2014, 12:49:19 PM6/24/14

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Unfortunately, probably not.

The .nib (nibble) format indicates that the program requires lower-level
data than the .dsk format provides--either for copy protection or for a
non-default volume number.

If it's just a volume number, an emulator can be used to create a .dsk
version that can be moved to a real disk initialized with the needed volume
number.

James

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Jun 24, 2014, 12:53:51 PM6/24/14

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DB
I used the disk image from Asimov...see you have the link. You should be good to go now.
The Observatory was on par with Tellstar, but I have not had any luck finding it.

Jim

Dagen Brock

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Jun 24, 2014, 11:27:43 PM6/24/14

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I'm assuming that the original poster meant they were looking for titles for the 8-bit Apple II's, but for completeness' sake, I want to post that there was a decent astronomy program for the Apple IIgs.

I'm not sure, but it might be this one:

http://whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/astronomergs

db

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Jun 27, 2014, 5:13:08 AM6/27/14

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Thanks for pointing these programs out. They were pretty decent but I still have to give it to Tellstar for it's accuracy and ease of maneuvering through its 360 viewing options. While it is a much slower loading program than the other two when I compare the positioning to Stellarium (the planetarium program I currently run on my mac) it seems the most accurate. Sky Travel's menu is fairly easy and intuitive to navigate through. Providing a graphic map to input your global position (handy if you don't know your coordinates of the top of your head) Sky Travel is more difficult to maneuver through the different view options once you do. I found it difficult to figure out how to get a view looking due East, for example; and the program usually said looking below horizon. What good is that?! However, one really cool feature that Sky Travel had over the others is that once you locate an object with the joystick (and I haven't been able to figure out a way to do this without the joystick)the program will give you some information about it beyond it's name, magintude, position and heading scrolling along the bottom of the screen. Kind of the like the truly awesome iOS app Skyview. For example when I clicked on Canis Minor it told me about the two myths this constellation was possibly based on. Pretty neat! One major con of this program though is that it emits a constant noisy buzz. Not sure why that would be but it's always there.

Just putting it out there that someone should attempt to combine the best features of these two programs into one: the accuracy and ease of use and viewing options of Tellstar combined with the extended info options of Sky Travel. Perhaps if and when my chops get good enough I'll attempt this myself. Thanks for your help in locating a working copy of Tellstar (everyone who did). Now I'm set til the year 3000 ; >

sicklittlemonkey

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Jun 27, 2014, 10:18:55 AM6/27/14

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On Friday, 27 June 2014 21:13:08 UTC+12, db wrote:
> Sky Travel's menu is fairly easy and intuitive to navigate through.

> Providing a graphic map to input your global position ...

Oh, I hate it! I've put a pic on FB if you want to know why:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152599968472664

Cheers,
Nick.

Marco Verpelli

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Jun 27, 2014, 10:32:01 AM6/27/14

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I feel something missing under my feet...

Hi from antipodes.

db

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Jun 27, 2014, 5:47:13 PM6/27/14

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A good idea but poorly executed in ways. If I were redoing it I'd make a more accurate map (with NZ included, of course) but also allow for text input, for when you know your exact coordinates. Sky Travel only allows you to change the date and time this way. Also, its view options need to be made more clear. I still can't figure out how to change this except to search for an object that I already know to be in that part of the sky; whereas Tellstar offers clear choices of N/NE/E,etc. and an overhead view. However, the option to get more info about an object by clicking on it: brilliant! I just wish it were easier and more practical to use.

Anthony Lawther

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Jun 27, 2014, 5:53:02 PM6/27/14

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Is it the lack of some of the more important islands to the east of
Australia?

Like Fraser, Hamilton, and Norfolk.... ;-P

Regards,
Anthony

sicklittlemonkey

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Sean Fahey

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Jul 2, 2014, 4:25:09 PM7/2/14

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On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 1:19:45 PM UTC-5, Marco Verpelli wrote:

> But I have to notice that nowadays is more easy to found internet sites with disk images and documentation for the C64 rather than Apple II.

Our community has 3 or 4 well established, long running file repositories that pretty much everyone knows about or which are easy to find -- and mirrors are maintained. How many redundant sites with the exact same files do we need?

There's always someone coming along, thinking their going to make a bigger, better community site -- better than anyone else's but inevitably, aside from packaging, it's the same media library you can find elsewhere. At least all our 'eggs' aren't in just one basket.

> Obviously C64 outscored Apple in the number of unit sold (someone wrote ~ 30x10^6) but as said in the song: Apple II Forever!

To me, this is like saying Ford sold more Escorts than Ferrari sold Testarossas. I'm not comparing Ford to Commodore, or Apple to Ferrari ... or am I? Ferrari Testarossa Forever!

=)

Antoine Vignau

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Jul 2, 2014, 4:32:39 PM7/2/14

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On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 8:19:45 PM UTC+2, Marco Verpelli wrote:
> I don't want to (re)start the holy war C64 vs Apple II.

Me neither.

> But I have to notice that nowadays is more easy to found internet sites with disk images and documentation for the C64 rather than Apple II.

I think you know the C64 community and resources better than the Apple II one.
The C64 scene is more visible on the web, whereas the Apple II files are more visible on FTP and alike.

> Obviously C64 outscored Apple in the number of unit sold (someone wrote ~ 30x10^6) but as said in the song: Apple II Forever!

Facts please?

> [cut]
> Marco

Antoine

sicklittlemonkey

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Jul 2, 2014, 4:55:38 PM7/2/14

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The C64 Wikipedia page provides this evidence:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/05/09/commodore.64.reborn/

"Commodore sold more than 17 million of its C64 systems, according to the company. The Guinness Book of World Records lists the Commodore 64 as the best-selling single computer model of all time. "

Other sites list the 30 million figure. Maybe that includes C-128?

Cheers,
Nick.

db

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Jul 2, 2014, 5:11:23 PM7/2/14

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On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 2:19:45 PM UTC-4, Marco Verpelli wrote:
> I don't want to (re)start the holy war C64 vs Apple II.

Well, war started ; > Personally, of the two ancient computers I've always wanted to experience first hand the other one besides the Apple II would be the C64. I've always liked that there was a computer from this era tried to do the what the the Apple II was doing but at a fraction of the price, opening up a world of computing to a whole new demographic. I didn't have a computer back then but I know I wouldn't have been able to afford an Apple; so it would've been C64 for me probably. Perhaps the Ford/Ferrari analogy is a good one but there have been some really decent, reliable Ford vehicles and how many really know anyone with a Ferrari? BTW, if you want to see a really funny spoof of the whole Commodore/Apple war and just of Steve Jobs himself, checkout iSteve. I thought it was hilarious. I still think of scenes from that movie that make me LOL.

Antoine Vignau

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Jul 3, 2014, 2:24:45 AM7/3/14

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Thank you, Nick.

Marco Verpelli

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Jul 3, 2014, 3:38:08 AM7/3/14

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Recently I have posted here about Little Computer People and MicroLeague Baseball.

No Apple site report the disk serial number used to choice the character in LCP. I have read this in the C64 and even Atari pages. By the way the method still works for the new "4am" crack.

On Asimov there was only 2 team disk images for MLB (one corrupted), for the C64 I found and converted 10 team/all star/word series disk.

In my experience only MacGUI offer a complete site with index, search and screen-shoot. Asimov is great but is hard to find what you need, it's difficult also figure out what is new on the site, you have to look the incoming directory nearly every day.

Marco

Jeff Blakeney

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Jul 3, 2014, 7:22:50 AM7/3/14

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My first computer experience was with Commodore PET and a TRS-80 Model 1
when I started high school. Ended up with a TRS-80 Colour Computer at
home for a while until I traded my half of the computer for my brother's
half of our AD&D stuff. Came extremely close to getting a Commodore 64
for at home after that but my local store ended up getting 64 KB Apple
IIe systems with a Disk ][ drive and a Monitor II. I ended up getting
that instead and never regretted that decision.

In college I picked up a used Commodore 64 and a 1541 drive. I used it
pretty much exclusively to play games that weren't available on my Apple
II. I did enjoy the SID music but after upgrading my IIe to a IIgs, it
wasn't as impressive anymore. :) Still have that 64 too.

Never really thought that there was any real basis for a "war". They
both have their pros and cons.